From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #319 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, July 22 1999 Volume 04 : Number 319 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Thoughts on JFK Jr. (was Lily, Joni, ice-cream, smokin') - NJC ["Hele] MS (NJC) - message for Loren [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Kathleen (NJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: from the forceps to the stone....brief (njc) ["Reuben Bell3" ] Re: Media Circus (NJC) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Media Circus (NJC) [Diana Duncan ] Message from Loren (NJC) [LOREN CARTER ] Hey, where's Barangrill? [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: Hey, where's Barangrill? [DKasc13293@aol.com] The Black Crow - NJC [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: happy anniversary to me! [j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi] Re: dog eat dog, larry (jc) [j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi] friends...(NJC) [RickieLee1@aol.com] Later, Gator! (NJC) [Ashara@aol.com] Hanging on your boom-boom pacyderm ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: MS (NJC) - message for Loren [catman ] NJC Dead Kennedy's [catman ] RE: Hanging on your boom-boom pacyderm ["Brett Code" ] Re: Media Circus (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Hanging on your boom-boom pacyderm [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Media Circus (NJC) [Ginamu@aol.com] Believe the hype (NJC) [Bolvangar@aol.com] Re: Hanging on your boom-boom pacyderm [DKasc13293@aol.com] NJC: Nashville bound [pattihaskins@mindspring.com] Re: Subject: Lily, Joni, ice-cream, smokin' (SJC) [Bounced Message ] Re: Media Circus (NJC) [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Hey, where's Barangrill? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: dog eat dog, larry (jc) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: The Black Crow [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Later, Gator! (NJC) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Later, Gator! (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Vanessa in Australia njc [michael ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:56:03 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Thoughts on JFK Jr. (was Lily, Joni, ice-cream, smokin') - NJC Catherine wrote: >Is it just we in North America that get all the hype over the Kennedys and >so on? I'd be interested to know if it's the same in Europe and Australia >and so on. Here in Toronto where I am, we get all the US TV stations as well >as the Canadian ones. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. We got the news about JFK Jr here in New Zealand on Monday night, and in our normal one hour news programme, where the last 1/2 hour is dedicated to sport and weather, there was a 25-30 minute segment on the whole thing (first - actually just about ONLY - item of news), from the disappearance of the plane, the weather conditions at the time, a potted history of JFK Jr's life, and a rehash of the "family curse" theory. It has been just as talked-about since - a two-page spread in the paper the next day, as well. Don't get me wrong, I really feel for his family (I know what it's like to lose a close family member), and his wife's - remember they've lost two daughters, not just one son, a point which the media seem to be overlooking here for the most part. But personally, the whole "Kennedy family curse" thing is wearing a little thin. They are a large family, with a large proportion of members in the public eye, political, or otherwise. So if a family member dies, the media immediately jump on the "curse" bandwagon again. I really don't think they've suffered significantly more than many other families. Sure JFK and Robert Kennedy were assassinated, and I'm no political theorist - this is all my own theory (surprise, surprise) - but anyone involved in heavily controversial issues, like they were, in the political arena, is going to be a target. Just realised how much I've blathered on (2c was more like 15c) - I've still got the 'flu (2 weeks, and still going strong!) so my brain is not functioning at 100% - not that it ever did! Helen NP - My chattering teeth - it's COLD tonight! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:15:24 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: MS (NJC) - message for Loren Loren Carter wrote: > Yesterday I was diagnosed with MS, and I've > been spending a lot of time with the "why mes? > ...why do I deserve this? who did I piss off? what > did I do in a former life? I tried to write to Loren's email address but it bounced, so I'm sending this to the list. Dear Loren, I started to write to you this morning, but couldn't find the words I wanted to say. It must be so devastating to be diagnosed with MS. I cannot even imagine how it must be, because nothing like that has ever happened to me, at least not in this life. I know there is a big internet community of people with MS and researchers working on finding treatments and you can take some comfort there. But I hope you can take comfort also in this: Bad things happen to good people. I used to believe in the whole karma thing, but I now really believe that the truth is that life is pretty random (a scary thing to believe - religion, and alcohol, drugs, TV and other addictions help us to avoid or ignore this truth). I do believe that life goes on after life on earth somehow (I do believe in a totally merciful greater power and that we are all aspects of that) and I'm not exactly sure what we're all supposed to be learning here on earth, but I am sure that the things that happen in are lives are for learning and *not* for punishment. This did not happen to you because you are bad! Believe this. I wish you long periods of remission and also, since miracles have been know to happen in this world, I wish for a miracle for you. Don't lose hope. Marian Vienna P.S. I have been doing a high-protein, low-carb diet which causes uric acid to build up in the bloodstream. I just found this article which you might find interesting: Uric Acid In EAE & Multiple Sclerosis Hooper DC, Spitsin S, Kean RB, Champion JM, Dickson GM, Chaudhry I, Koprowski H Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1998 Jan 20;95(2):675-680 Thomas Jefferson University, Center for Neurovirology, Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Philadelphia, PA 19107-6799 USA UI # 9435251 Abstract: Uric acid, the naturally occurring product of Purine metabolism, is a strong Peroxynitrite scavenger, as demonstrated by the capacity to bind Peroxynitrite but not Nitric Oxide (NO) produced by Lipopolysaccharide-stimulated cells of a mouse Monocyte line. In this study, we used Uric Acid to treat Experimental Allergic Encephalomyelitis (EAE) in the PLSJL strain of mice, which develop a chronic form of the disease with remissions and exacerbations. Uric Acid administration was found to have strong therapeutic effects in a dose-dependent fashion. A regimen of four daily doses of 500 mg/kg Uric Acid was required to promote long-term survival regardless of whether treatment was initiated before or after the clinical symptoms of EAE had appeared. The requirement for multiple doses is likely to be caused by the rapid clearance of Uric Acid in mice which, unlike humans, metabolize Uric Acid a step further to Allantoin. Uric Acid treatment also was found to diminish clinical signs of a disease resembling EAE in Interferon-gamma receptor knockout mice. A possible association between Multiple Sclerosis (MS), the disease on which EAE is modeled, and Uric Acid is supported by the finding that patients with MS have significantly lower levels of serum Uric Acid than controls. In addition, statistical evaluation of more than 20 million patient records for the incidence of MS and Gout (Hyperuricemic) revealed that the two diseases are almost mutually exclusive, raising the possibility that HyperUricemia may protect against MS. The URL is: http://www.albany.net/~tjc/uric_acid-peroxynitrite2-98.html You can get a free search of medical literature at Medline: http://www.infotrieve.com/medline/mbsearch/index.html You can search for the topic Multiple Sclerosis at: http://www.altavista.com/ where you will find homepages devoted to the subject and links to support groups ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:17:23 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Kathleen (NJC) That was an amazing, incredible, beautiful piece of writing. Please do send it to your sister. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:44:32 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: from the forceps to the stone....brief (njc) >>> 07/20 10:42 PM >>> maybe i'm not getting my point across..... i guess i'm upset at the fact; that ANY tragedy that occurs...the media FORCES us to see the grim, depressing details of such.... do you understand? every channel you turn to on your television, every station on your radio...... it just gives no relief.... "they" FORCE us to '(re)live' the tragedies as they are happening......>>> I agree with you to a point, but at the same time, you don't have to watch TV or listen to the radio to get through the day. I have managed to keep myself out of this whole discussion by not paying attention to the media. Diana's tragedy and media circus made me physically ill, and I decided that I didn't' t want to immerse myself in the details of someone else's tragic situation again. The media only can force as much as you're willing to pay attention. Reuben Rufus Wainwright-"Danny Boy" (Michael Y. turned me on to this CD...FANTASTIC!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:52:23 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: from the forceps to the stone.... kennedy-bessett (njc) In a message dated 7/20/99 10:48:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KerriLynn@aol.com writes: > i feel horrible, of course i do... and i think > i feel worse, because the media has FORCED another 'ROYAL" tragedy upon > me.... > BELIEVE ME.... i understand that unforturnate events happen... and i do not > > wish them upon ANY ONE!!!! > let's just be prayerful ( if that's actually a word!) and let sorrows lie, > and respect the people that ARE involved and let them grieve..... in > their > own way.... with thier families.... and the support they SEEK.... > > thank you... > (now you know why i'm a lurker ;) ) > kerri I can understand your frustration but the media only *forces* things on us if we allow them to. Granted, there is little I personally can do to stop the deluge of media coverage about these types of tragedies. However, my personal reaction to the Kennedy deaths has been largely my own reaction, absent of media "irritation", as I don't watch TV *at all* and lately I haven't listened to any radio *at all*. I prefer it this way. If an event required that I acquire some knowledge on the subject, I read the newspaper and then only to the required degree. I read the basics about the Kennedy/Besset deaths. That and my past awareness of history and the American "royal" family and I felt that was more than enough. I actually believe that *not* tuning in to all the media coverage allowed me to be more compassionate toward the family of the dead. If I had been bombarded, I think I would feel really cynical. I also feel that my reaction to the Kennedy deaths was not disproportionate to what I would feel toward my neighbor or coworker's families, should something like this happen to them. Americans love this stuff and they're fed a steady dose of what they crave. It's simple supply and demand, IMO. My point is that we are only "forced" to endure these media feeding frenzies, as you say, if we allow ourselves to be. I feel very similarly to you except that it does not upset me. I try not to allow my feelings and reactions to be manipulated by the news media. I'm sure I'm not always successful, but I try. Take care and thanks for allowing me my two cents, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:58:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: smokin' (NJC) - --- Bolvangar@aol.com wrote: > I hear the song > as having a 4/4 > beat from start to end. (I hear a kind of five-note > rhythmic figure being > played, but as a syncopation within the fundamental > four beat, and not a true > quintuple rhythm.) > You're right about this. I don't mean that it's an even quintuple ... it splits up [1-2-3] [2-2-3] [3-&] [4-&] in my ear. > what aspect of a jig > or reel does Joni emulate? Harmony, rhythm, melody? What I'm hearing are the accents on the lyrical syllables -- which fall in a triplet quarter note figure over the main rhythm -- "EMP-ty -2-3-" "EMP-ty-2-3" "EMP-ty-2-TRY" "a-NO-ther". I trust I make myself obscure ... ;-) Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:07:12 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Media Circus (NJC) In a message dated 7/20/99 6:39:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mwyarbro@zzapp.org writes: > Another thing I can't help noticing: all of these deaths > are tragic, indeed, but they're all rich people's deaths. > Most of the people I know will never die skiing in Aspen or > piloting a private plane (or break a leg para-sailing), much > less be assassinated in a Presidential motorcade. This does > not make their deaths less serious or less noteworthy than > those of "normal" people, The deaths of normal people don't create profits. It's all about sucking viewers in to make money. Someone please correct me if there are other reasons for the overkill. Take care, Gina NP: Well You Needn't (God, I love this song!) Miles Davis, The Bluenote Years ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:28:20 -0500 From: Diana Duncan Subject: Re: Media Circus (NJC) At 10:07 AM 7/21/1999 EDT, Ginamu@aol.com wrote: >The deaths of normal people don't create profits. It's all about sucking >viewers in to make money. Someone please correct me if there are other >reasons for the overkill. I wondered about this myself. On politically incorrect last night, (Blanked on his name), mentioned the overkill this last weekend. He said that when they didn't have anything new to say they should shut up. I agree with Gina, the networks wanted to compete with news channels for the ratings. It was no public service. My first thought was what cateri@hotmail.com wrote: God help Caroline.> I thought of my daughter who lost her younger brother. She stated that she just can't imagine what it must be like to have the whole world watching while you go through this. We felt a little of this as there is only one high school in this small town and the deaths of 2 students (my son and friend) was front page news. My daughter made it through, even though she was always very fragile emotionally. Caroline will learn to live with this loss just as we have. I really think the reason why there is so much interest is that we have known this young man all his life, even if it has just been in the media. To me it's like a neighbors child dying. Most of us have had a major loss in our lives and we relate our feelings to how his family must be feeling. The support of family and friends is what's needed at this time. Lets hope that all those who suffer this kind of loss have that support to help them through. Diana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:17:13 -0400 From: LOREN CARTER Subject: Message from Loren (NJC) All, Once again, I refer back to my message about the tremendous amount of love, caring, and empathy from the members of this list. To those who reached out and gave me a hug, added me to your prayers, and sent me words of encouragement....all that I can offer in return is a simple heartfelt thanks. I know that I'll be fine, MS won't kill me, maybe it'll make me stronger (to steal from Nietzsche (I think, and the spelling probably ain't close)). I have alot going for me. My wife and son are counting on me, so I have to get on with living and get over the self pity....but's it's not easy to do right now. I'm not a fawcet that I can turn on and off. So thanks. I have stop now, it still hurts too much. Loren.... NP....Monday, Monday (jeez I hate that song now). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:40:52 EDT From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Hey, where's Barangrill? So much to do today ... stuff to turn in, a deadline, but ... might as well listen to Barangrill. Such a beautiful song ... may as well check out the tablature on Sue's Tabs and retune the guitar and at least examine the bones of the song. Wow ... what an ingenius composition. How does Joni play this song so cleanly? How incredible to drop the bottom string down to a low G. Okay, don't play the upper strings, now play only the bottom ones. What bliss as it glides from this weird chord into such a strange yet pretty progression. This song is up and down the neck and back again ...what a genius. How old was she when she wrote this? Not to mention these lyrics. Shit ... two hours later, and I still have so much to do! The guitar goes into the closet. - - Clark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:00:08 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: Hey, where's Barangrill? Sometimes, on an infrequent magical nastalgic journey that I take an evening to scan the juke box cd player to the old Joni stuff. I can't specifically pinpoint when I became fanatical about Joni's musical talent. I was there from the start, but For the Roses is one of those album's that "speaks" to me, even some 25 years later. I've programmed my multi-disc player to delete certain cuts of each album, and For The Roses has the fewest deleted. Highlights: Cold Blue Steel, Barangrill, Let The Wind Carry Me, Electricity, Blonde in the Bleachers. On a recent vacation, I played snippits from NRH, TI, and TTT to people who asked "Who is This?", to comments something like "I really like this, it's so soothing." So I put together a tape list of songs to turn others on to Joni. Impossible Dreamer Night Ride Home Man From Mars (Grace of My Heart Production) Sire of Sorrow Borderline Chinese Cafe Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire Barangrill My Secret Place Cool Water Don't Interrupt the Sorrow Coyote Hejira Runners up: Last Chance Lost Be Cool Love DJRD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:25:12 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: The Black Crow - NJC Yesterday a black crow did in fact come sit outside on the window sill. It was a nasty site at first, menacing with a look of filth and corruption. It had green eyes. No telling where its beak had been before. Not to mention its feet. But I did find a moment of solace in its presence. After all, a little filth and corruption can at times be comforting. A look inward. For a fleeting moment, we see ourselves as we really are. No, no, not that we are filthy and corrupt. Not at all are we that. We are beautiful flying things that are intelligent and brilliant and capable. We like ourselves. We love our looks. But there is no telling where our beaks have been. Not to mention our feet. Sometimes, we can surprise ourselves. Good and bad. We do something for someone we never thought we would do. We do something to someone we never thought we would do. Then we feel good. Or we feel sorry. But we still like ourselves. We do love our looks. And I did in fact know that crow that sat outside my sill yesterday. ss. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:20:57 +0300 From: j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi Subject: Re: happy anniversary to me! > Today, July 19, is the 30th anniversary of the day I bought my first Joni > Mitchell album, Clouds. I played side two first (since I wanted to hear > Both Sides Now,) so the very first Joni song I ever heard was The Gallery. > I felt in love with that song immediately, and an obsession was born! > > 30 years of JC compared to 13 of NJC...not bad. My first encounter with the Joan kind was much later. I came across the "Shadows And Light" LP at a local library (small village in Finland), thought that the sleeve was really interesting and took it home because of that. That was in 1986. My first track? ..."Introduction"! No no no no no no no no No no no no no no no no no no no - I'm not a juvenile delinquent (ooh-wah ooh-wah ooh-wah ooh-wah ooh-wah ooh-wah ooh-wah ooh) - --jussi np: Tanita Tikaram: Elephant ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:05:07 +0300 From: j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi Subject: Re: dog eat dog, larry (jc) > << 2) i just think it's wrong to blame klein. factually wrong. and > wrong to > blame dolby. >> > Oh sure we have to blame Larry. She gave him lots of control on that > particular album. Come on now and look at the big picture. She > married the > guy. I mean how many people did she give the opportunity of marriage > to? So > you know she was CRAZY about him and let him and Thomas Dolby go to > town with > that album. I am sorry but in MHO I think the album is her worst > one. I > mean there are none that are bad or anything but if you had to put > them in > order surely this would be the last on the totem pole. I do love some > of the > songs on the album.....like Ethiopia...however, that song Smokin' > drives me > NUTS! When Chalkmark came out I thought to myself *Thank Goodness, > She got > her sanity back!* Oh no... it's back to square #1... Of course you can find reasons for not liking DED if you don't like it, but I STILL believe she wasn't Blinded By Science or Larry or whatever. "If you had to put them in order surely this would be the last on the totem pole" - your opinion. It's in my top 3. Even if Joni replied to this and said she actually was misguided at this time of her life, I think not even that would change my opinion about the album. I would think Klein & Dolby had the insight to guide Joni in this direction. - --jussi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:58:03 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: friends...(NJC) dear listers... to those of you who took a moment to write me after my post to the list a week or so ago, either privately or publically, i want to say thank you. i was profoundly moved by the things you wrote. this is, as another lister recently wrote, an amazing place. and you know what? it truly is!!! i truly was having a low moment (duh!) and was heartened by the wonderful messages i received. i wish i had the time or the energy to respond to each of you individually, but i have a feeling you all will understand. bless you. from my heart, ric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:19:18 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Later, Gator! (NJC) Just to let you know.....I will be signing off the list very shortly, and will not be back until after August 24th. I will have limited access to e-mail, however, so if you need to get in touch with me about Jonifest, you can try contacting me privately. You may also be able to get a message through to the Aussies, as I will be seeing several of them while I'm "Down Under." So......while I'm gone.....you can keep busy by: 1) Sending a contribution to the Wally fundraiser by writing a check to: Wally Breese, and sending it to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA 01983 2) Sending raffle items to the same address. 3) If you are coming to Jonifest in September, you can make sure you've sent your questionnaire, picture and check to the same address. 4) You could be seriously deciding to come to Jonifest in September- it's not too late, as long as you get your "stuff" to me on time! You do NOT want to miss this one, TRUST ME!!!!! 5) You can talk about me while I'm gone. Now, talk amongst yourselves.... Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:13:22 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Hanging on your boom-boom pacyderm So when Joni tells him, in song, to cast aside the other girls who are hang on his boom-boom pachyderm, she is saying "the girls who hang on your drum fills"?! Please. Joni's in denial. Again. Tom Ross said: > The boom-boom pachyderm as drum fill is something I've never heard in jazz > circles. A coinage? And although no doubt elephant dicks are memorable, > this new take on the words evokes for me instead the Pink Elephants > sequence in "Dumbo." > > Pachyderm, of course, is one of those drum-syllables drummers mutter, like > 'paradiddle' and 'ratamicue'. - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** Tolerance, tolerance, tol... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:17:29 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: MS (NJC) - message for Loren Marian-I couldn't agree more with what you to Loren. As I already told Loren, my very good friend, Dawn has MS. She is quite well. Reading further about the high protein/low carb diet thing, well, it may be coincidence, but this is how Dawn eats, because she just does, no one told her too. her MS has gone from her being in wheel cahir 20 years ago to now having almost no symtoms. Of course, that is not proof at all but interesting. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:35:12 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJC Dead Kennedy's Our news has devoted some time to this awful event also. No where near the saturation of the Diana death though. It seems to me that The Kennedy's are the US Royal Family, so it does not surprise me at all that there is so much coverage. This family certainly do seem to have so much bad luck, but as someone else pointed out, they are famous. I am sure, in fact know, there are other families, not famous, who have had more than their fair share of tragedy also. Maybe the feelings we trasfer to such famous people are our way of dealing with the personal shit that happens, but at a safer distance. I also would have thought that this tragedy has left a lot of people untouched because they are living their own. i can think of at least two members of this list that have tragedy much closer to home. I feel more for them, because I 'know' them better. Somehow, when one is battling with one's own grief, the grief of others tends not to impinge on ours. The fact is, we will all face grief, if we are lucky. Every single one of us will experience the 'loss' of a loved one at some point. And of course we will experience our rebirth at some point too. No escape. Whilst it may appear to us that the world has lost something great when someone like this dies, I believe we have not. I believe there is a time for birth and a time for death and niether happens by accident. It is how we deal with both and what we gain from both that counts. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:01:07 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: Hanging on your boom-boom pacyderm Thank you, Jim. There's just no way that this line has anything to do with drum fills. It can mean only one thing, and we've all discussed it several times before. The phallic nature of the hand on the cover photo is debatable, but not ol' "boom-boom". Wouldn't want to have to deal with or listen to drum fills if one had German measles! Brett So when Joni tells him, in song, to cast aside the other girls who are hang on his boom-boom pachyderm, she is saying "the girls who hang on your drum fills"?! Please. Joni's in denial. Again. Tom Ross said: > The boom-boom pachyderm as drum fill is something I've never heard in jazz > circles. A coinage? And although no doubt elephant dicks are memorable, > this new take on the words evokes for me instead the Pink Elephants > sequence in "Dumbo." > > Pachyderm, of course, is one of those drum-syllables drummers mutter, like > 'paradiddle' and 'ratamicue'. - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** Tolerance, tolerance, tol... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:33:21 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: The Black Crow I loved this post. Funny that you focussed on the corruption part of it, though. For me, at least recently, it has been about "illumination" rather than corruption - especially since Joni changed the words on the recent tours from "In search of love and music" to " In search of truth and beauty / My whole life has been / Illumination . . ." I love the reference to Keats (Beauty is truth; truth, beauty") and to the search, no longer merely for shiny things or shiny toys, but for light, for the things and concepts of light - truth, beauty, illumination, enlightenment, etc. The words have just formed an inspirational mantra of sorts for me. And I've been watching the crows around my house lately. They're smart, brave, and, when the sun shines on them, bright in their own patent black feathered way. And so it goes, the raged soul taking flight in search of the light. Brett np: reminiscences of Black Crow in Ottawa. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:24:33 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Media Circus (NJC) > The deaths of normal people don't create profits. It's all about sucking > viewers in to make money. Someone please correct me if there are other > reasons for the overkill. I can't disagree with the reasons for the media overkill Gina gives here. I do think the American public's interest goes a little bit deeper than the man's money or his sex appeal, however. At least it does for a lot of people who are around my age or older. The Kennedy presidency has become one of the last great American myths. Anyone who was old enough (and I wasn't really) to understand the political and social climate of the U.S. at the time JFK was in office sees this death as another loss of one more part of that myth. And that myth is wrapped up in sorrow and grieving for the loss of 'that one brief shining moment' that was cut short the day JFK was shot in Dallas in 1963. Whether he would have gone on to do great things in the remainder of his time in office or not, JFK has come to represent what we consider our highest & best ideals & achievements - civil rights, freedom, the Space Program, etc. Attempts to tarnish the image we have of this man have been not been completely successful in doing so. He and his brother Bobby are modern day American martyrs. We will never know what they might or might not have accomplished. Or what they might or might not have destroyed or ruined. One scene from that myth is that of the hauntingly beautiful widow with her somewhat European sensibility and mystique, standing beside the coffin of her husband, the president, face obscured by a fluttering black veil, clutching the hands of her two small children. The picture of the younger of those two children, the 2 year old boy, standing there in his short pants saluting his father's casket is one that is ingrained in the memories of many, many Americans. That said, I have to say that I too have been disgusted by the media exploitation and overkill of this tragedy. I was ready to scream whenever I looked at the television last Saturday when there was really nothing to report but, nevertheless, there were the reporters mouthing some of the most inane, banal comments I have yet heard so-called television news anchors say. And the same film clips (including the one I just described) repeated over & over & over again. I found other things to do to distract myself from it (Travis is a news junkie but I think he got bored with it, too). I'm really grateful for the JMDL at times like this. It provides both a distraction and an outlet. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:27:56 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Hanging on your boom-boom pacyderm In a message dated 7/21/99 7:19:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: > So when Joni tells him, in song, to cast aside the other girls who are > hang on his boom-boom pachyderm, she is saying "the girls who hang on > your drum fills"?! Please. Joni's in denial. Again. > Maybe it's not meant to be taken literally? Couldn't those girls be hanging on the showmanship of the drummer? Make of it what you will, though. That's how Joni wants it, right? Why should be obligated to tell her fans or even her friends what her actual meaning was when she wrote a song? Maybe she was pulling that fan's leg, but in denial? I doubt it. Take care, Gina NP: Hejira/Hejira ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:59:33 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Media Circus (NJC) In a message dated 7/21/99 9:27:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark-n-travis@worldnet.att.net writes: > I can't disagree with the reasons for the media overkill Gina gives > here. I do think the American public's interest goes a little bit > deeper than the man's money or his sex appeal, however. At least it > does for a lot of people who are around my age or older. Yes, I agree. But pretend for a moment that the media didn't give the lastest Kennedy tragedy the 24 hour coverage it has been in reality. Do you think the American public would *demand* it? My guess is that they would not. But if it's being fed to the society like pabulum, it's eaten up. If it's what's on TV, it must be worthy. The cliche "a nation of sheep" has never seemed truer. It's frightening. Or perhaps this whole thing has to do with who has friends in the highest strata. Maybe now, the true measure of success is when there is 24 hour TV news coverage devoted to a rich an famous person's death. Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:10:09 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Believe the hype (NJC) I saw "The Blair Witch Project" today. It's an original and genuinely terrorizing movie! I don't want to say any more about the film itself, but almost every showing at the theater here in Denver has been sold out (hours or even days in advance) since it opened last Friday, and lines for ticket holders stretch around the block an hour before the showing starts, day and night. The film cost so little to make, it will practically turn a profit on this week's receipts from the Denver theater alone. And it's with good reason. Go see it! (if you can stand scary movies). - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:21:40 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: Hanging on your boom-boom pacyderm The first hand story for Kay Ashley (the person who posed the question to Joni) is that boom boom pac is reference to the cue in a jazz set, when there is a improv going on or just free form movement and the vocalist or other instrumentalists take their cue from the drummer to synchronize again and get back to the main melody. So Joni is referencing all those other pretty girls/singers coming around hanging on your "cue" to join in. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:19:32 -0500 From: pattihaskins@mindspring.com Subject: NJC: Nashville bound Hi all, I'm off to Nashville Thursday, won't be back till Sunday night and hope to soak up all the good music at the NAMM show, check out all the new guitars, drums, keyboards, amps, etc. and get to talk to Stephen Stills. Any exciting Joni related stories I find I'll be sure to post on Monday. Enjoy your weekends. Patti Haskins NP - Los Super Seven - AAAAAAYYII ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:32:11 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Subject: Lily, Joni, ice-cream, smokin' (SJC) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:18:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicholas Bates (JMDL Digest Tuesday, July 20 1999 Volume 04 : Number 317) Following on from Catherine McKay's comments re death of John Kennedy Jnr and the massiveness of the coverage, here in Australia we have been innundated with the story even though the Kennedy legend does not loom anywhere near as large as it does in the US. Sadly, our journalists are lazy and broadcasting companies cheap, and this is a very easy story to cover since they just have to pick the stuff up from the US suppliers. The fact that it pushes other important local and global news stories off the front page and off TV news for days on end is IMO a sad reflection on what we value as news in the world today. Its not about not being sad about Kennedy's death but its about putting it in perspective. On another subject, my sentimental side is extremely pleased to hear that Joni's new grandchild appears to be partly named after herself (Daisy Joan), suggesting at the very least that things are good between Joni and her own daughter. If she was born on June 18 even better sinces that's my birthday too! Nicholas in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:39:03 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: scary movies (NJC) hmmm...i love scary movies!!! i can hardly wait for "The Blair Witch Project" to open here. i heard that the new version of "the haunting" is pretty bad, though. has anybody seen it yet? any other horror movie fans out there? wallyK - -----Original Message----- De: Bolvangar@aol.com Para: joni@smoe.org Fecha: Miércoles 21 de Julio de 1999 21:30 Asunto: Believe the hype (NJC) >I saw "The Blair Witch Project" today. It's an original and genuinely >terrorizing movie! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:38:19 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Media Circus (NJC) Since you love WELL YOU NEEDN'T, please treat yourself to the definitive version--and much more great stuff--on MONK'S MUSIC. It was originally issued on Riverside in 1957 and features Thelonious Monk (who wrote the song), John Coltrane, Coleman Hawkins, Wilbur Ware and the drummer who absolutely does it for me, Art Blakey. It would be catalogued under THELONIOUS MONK. I am thrilled that you are about to discover this music, Gina. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:38:30 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Hey, where's Barangrill? In a message dated 7/21/1999 3:45:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CarltonCT@aol.com writes: << Wow ... what an ingenius composition. How does Joni play this song so cleanly? How incredible to drop the bottom string down to a low G. Okay, don't play the upper strings, now play only the bottom ones. What bliss as it glides from this weird chord into such a strange yet pretty progression. This song is up and down the neck and back again ...what a genius. How old was she when she wrote this? Not to mention these lyrics. Shit ... two hours later, and I still have so much to do! The guitar goes into the closet. >> Oh how so true!!! I know Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire moves all over the place as well! I remember trying to play that in my mid teens boy did my fingers HURT!! I have be brushing up on Sunny Sunday and Yvette in English...those two songs are played in the same key but one is sharped...no problemo. I will say when I play the songs from Turbulent Indigo I have to constantly retune the guitar if I want to play more then just the two songs. I wish I had a VG-8! (Dreamland, dreeeaaammmlaand) I love the chord changes in Yvette. The are so easy (once you know the proper tuning!!) and yet so sweet and obscure! Playing music in different tunigs certainly opens up alot of new and pretty sounds! One day I will pull my dulcimer off the wall tune it and try my hand at one of the songs from the songbooks Hits and Misses! I have an old tenor banjo on the wall that has not been touched in years until good ole Bob Mueller pulled it down and started tuning it. Way to go Bob!! Catgirl...looking at the guitar and the vacume cleaner (hoover to those in Europe) Which do I pick up now? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:43:57 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: dog eat dog, larry (jc) In a message dated 7/21/1999 4:36:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi writes: << t's in my top 3. Even if Joni replied to this and said she actually was misguided at this time of her life, I think not even that would change my opinion about the album. I would think Klein & Dolby had the insight to guide Joni in this direction. --jussi >> THAT song would be your top 3rd song out of everything she ever did? Have you ever considered having your ears coned? I am not being mean but if this statement is true you just blew my doors OFF! Catgirl...pulling out Hissings demo....ahhhhhhh...relief! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:55:18 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: The Black Crow I didn't know about the lyric change and my first reaction is sorrow. There's something so palpable and immediate about "love and music" that gets kind of bleached out when it morphs into the abstracts--"truth & beauty." And I am very moved by the image of "diving down to pick up any shiny thing." The soul is hungry for nourishment and the soul is like a child. Just my 2 cents DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:49:12 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Later, Gator! (NJC) In a message dated 7/21/1999 5:24:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ashara@aol.com writes: << Just to let you know.....I will be signing off the list very shortly, and will not be back until after August 24th. I will have limited access to e-mail, however, so if you need to get in touch with me about Jonifest, you can try contacting me privately. You may also be able to get a message through to the Aussies, as I will be seeing several of them while I'm "Down Under." >> Hey you!!! Befor you run off this list You need to let me thank you for thinking of me in such a kind way. Never befor have a felt such a connection like this. Everyone is so nice and down to earth. especially YOU Ashara! That little Cat Book you sent me because you saw it and thought I would like it was one of the kindest things that anyone has done for me. So many people here have given so much of themselves with no requests in return. I have been blessed for being born in this time and space to have the privlege of this computer so I can find all you wonderful people. Thanks to all my dear friends. I am so looking forward to meeting all of you at the Joni Fest!! Luv, Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:32:10 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Later, Gator! (NJC) Ashara, Have a wonderful time! Hope to hear of Austral-fests down under. And save a little party strength for L.A. ;-) Kakki > Just to let you know.....I will be signing off the list very shortly, and > will not be back until after August 24th. I will have limited access to > e-mail, however, so if you need to get in touch with me about Jonifest, you > can try contacting me privately. You may also be able to get a message > through to the Aussies, as I will be seeing several of them while I'm "Down > Under." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:01:52 +1000 (EST) From: michael Subject: Vanessa in Australia njc Sorry for the intrusion list!!! Vanessa .I lost your email address so I can't send you my bank details. Drop me a line please . Michael ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #319 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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