From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #317 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, July 20 1999 Volume 04 : Number 317 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- G'daughter, heffalump [Thomas Ross ] Re: Kennedy tragedy NJC [dsk ] Re: moon songs (Willy) [Deb Messling ] Fairport's Chelsea Morning [Deb Messling ] Re: Moon Songs [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Kennedy tragedy NJC [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Kennedy tragedy NJC [DKasc13293@aol.com] Joy! [NJC] [Christopher Kornmann ] For Ric - NJC [PMcfad@aol.com] HOSL Demo Remastering Offer [Don Rowe ] For Ric - NJC -Reply [LOREN CARTER ] Re:happy anniversary to me ["Chad Burkhart" ] Re:happy anniversary to me [Heather Galli ] Re: For Ric - NJC [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Fairport's Chelsea Morning [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Conquered (moon) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: New Granddaughter and Steelye Span NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Expensive collectable vinyl [Bounced Message ] Lily, Joni, ice-cream, smokin' ["Catherine McKay" ] IT WAS A JOKE! NJC [catman ] Today in Joni History - July 24 [Today in Joni History ] Today in Joni History - July 22 [Today in Joni History ] Today in Joni History - July 28 [Today in Joni History ] Today in Joni History - July 21 [Today in Joni History ] Today in Joni History - July 26 [Today in Joni History ] Re: Lily, Joni, ice-cream, smokin' [Don Rowe ] Re: Lily, Joni, ice-cream, smokin' ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Media Circus (NJC) [DKasc13293@aol.com] Re: Media Circus (NJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Media Circus (NJC) [DKasc13293@aol.com] Re: Lily, Joni, ice-cream, smokin' [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Smokin' [SMEBD@aol.com] SIQUOMB/SIDHE [Steve Dulson ] RE: Re: Media Circus (NJC) [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 03:36:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Ross Subject: G'daughter, heffalump well the most congrats, J! I expect grandparenting to be an even greater delight than parenting. The boom-boom pachyderm as drum fill is something I've never heard in jazz circles. A coinage? And although no doubt elephant dicks are memorable, this new take on the words evokes for me instead the Pink Elephants sequence in "Dumbo." Pachyderm, of course, is one of those drum-syllables drummers mutter, like 'paradiddle' and 'ratamicue'. TR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 04:01:39 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Kennedy tragedy NJC Takats, Angela wrote: > > Hi guys....got into the newsroom where I work (in Sydney) this morning to > hear the tragic news of John F Kennedy Junior....I just can't believe how > these things happen, is this family going to forever be struck with > tragedy?? Wondering what the mood over in the US is.....How do these things > happen and why...and what is with the Kennedys?? I don't have answers for these questions, but do feel very very sad about John's death, and have had some teary eyed times these past three days. Here in New York have had or overheard many conversations about it, usually short ones because what can you say right now other than how sad it is? He was often in the news here, usually because of charity work he was doing, and lots of people saw him around town, riding the subway to work or in Central Park. So he seemed very familiar to people. It makes his loss seem unbelievable. By all accounts, he was a very decent man (unlike some of his cousins) and embodied the best of the Kennedy family's philosophy and belief in public service. "To whom much is given, much will be required" from the Bible was apparently one of grandma Rose's favorite quotes and an idea ingrained in all the children. It would have been good to have him in elected office, a moral principled leader with a compassion for others. There aren't many such leaders now. So in addition to imagining the pain of Caroline and the family of Carolyn and Lauren, that loss of what might have been really hurts. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 05:41:45 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: moon songs (Willy) Yeah, "trampled moon" is from No Apologies. >At the beginning of the moon songs thread I noticed an incorrect line from >"Willy". The lyric reads: He stood looking thru the lace at the face on >the conquered moon (not trampled moon). Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 06:12:55 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Fairport's Chelsea Morning Over at the Digital Tradition, the folk song lyrics database, the song Chelsea Morning is attributed to Fairport Convention and is transcribed thusly: Woke up big this Chelsea morning and the first thing that I heard The "woke up big" is repeated in each stanza. Is this really how Fairport sings it?? Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:29:52 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Moon Songs Mary writes: >>Subject: Moon songs. >>At the beginning of the moon songs thread I noticed an incorrect line from>> >>"Willy". The lyric reads: He stood looking thru the lace at the face on>> >>the conquered moon (not trampled moon).>> I believe that the lister was not referring to "Willy", but "No Apologies". ....Wagging in the wound, beneath the trampled moon........ Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:38:25 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Kennedy tragedy NJC Jackie was once quoted as saying: "If you bungle raising your kids, I don't think whatever else you do matters much." It's no wonder JFK Jr. was so well thought of. He had a wonderful mother. I've found myself unusually sad over this tragedy. I was a very little girl when JFK was assassinated and not even living in the States, yet I recall how my family was stunned and saddened by the event. The whole world was. I recall most thinking about the pretty lady at the funeral, his widow Jackie. It was many, many years later that I came to appreciate that "pretty" was just the tip of the iceberg of Jackie. Underneath that "pretty" was a caring, thoughtful, intelligent and truly classy woman. I know it sounds cliche...all the papers are full of this, but I think it would have been truly gut-wrenching for the Kennedys and the nation, had Jackie been alive and forced to mourn the death of her son. I think I would have truly broken down. I can't imagine the grief of losing a child. I can *only* imagine the grief of losing a spouse. I've seen my grandfathers and my dear, sweet aunt face that one but to lose a child is unfathomable, whatever their age. My thoughts are not only with the Kennedy family and the family of John's wife and sister but especially with Ric and his family who are currently faced with some of the most painful experiences living can dredge up. It seems to make no sense yet there is some sort of rhyme and reason that the stronger among us seem to ultimately derive from such painful experiences. I think of those people as my emotional heroes. May all the good forces of the universe help those who are faced with the monumental burden and excruciating pain of loss. Take good care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:52:08 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: Kennedy tragedy NJC In a message dated 7/20/99 4:57:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dskARTS@concentric.net writes: << .I just can't believe how > these things happen, is this family going to forever be struck with > tragedy?? Wondering what the mood over in the US is.....How do these things > happen and why...and what is with the Kennedys?? >> I've had the previledge of working for the Kennedy family as a decorator (specifically, Patricia Kennedy Lawford) both here in NYC and Southampton. Indeed, they are very much the archtypical "American" family in a very public way. They are very private, religious and seek the ordinary. Patricia prays in my church during the day, and is a nice lady. At my previous firm, Irvine and Fleming, Inc. the clientelle also included Ethel and Jackie O. I also have a history with Jackie (Bouvier) Onassis when as a child, I spent summers in a house where her "crazy" aunt was my neighbor. There was a film produced about them entitled "Grey Gardens." I befriended them as a 9 year old, and would sing "I can't get anything but love baby" to this 86 year old woman who lived in seclusion and slept on a bare mattress and newspapers. John Jr. was very much a "momma's boy." He had his mother's outlook and way of dealing with things. Although there are reports of Kennedy family gatherings time and time again in the news, the members live very seperate lives. The size of the family dictates the frequency of the meetings for weddings and funerals. I feel for Caroline the most. She can be spotted in my neighborhood often, and everyone respects her privacy here. Again, having first hand experience, the myth is very faded. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:19:29 -0400 From: Christopher Kornmann Subject: Joy! [NJC] Hello all... Just wanted to let you know about an upcoming gig in NYC from Joy Askew. If you were fortunate enough to attend “Joni’s Jazz” in Central Park, you saw Joy do stellar renditions of “Down To You” and “Coyote”. Word is that she will be performing “Down To You” at this gig with Joe Jackson on piano...and Joe's Pub will be the perfect setting for this itimate gig. Joy Askew Live with her band AND SPECIAL GUESTS! Tuesday, August 3 at 8:30pm at Joe’s Pub... at the Public Theater 425 Lafayette Street www.joespub.com tele-charge: 212-239-6200 Pub Info: 212-539-8777 _________________________ To purchase Joy’s CDs Visit: www.theorchard.com www.artist-shop.com www.collectingdust.com http://www.eclipse.net/~synergy/joyaskew.html - -- Christopher Kornmann Graphic Designer Spit & Image 828 Waring Avenue Bronx, NY 10467 718.798.2862 spitandimage@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:33:28 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: For Ric - NJC Kathleen My oldest sister is named Kathleen. She is one year younger than my older brother and about 8 or 9 years older than me. She is a genius. Wide bandwidth as they call it in today's terms. Kathleen was a National Merit Scholar. Phi Beta Kappa. She earned her undergraduate degree at Notre Dame and received her Ph.D. in Chemistry from MIT. I majored in philosophy. One time, years after college, I was rooting through a closet in my mother's house and I found a term paper written by Kathleen. It was a philosophy paper. I thought, ah ha! We'll see how smart she really is. I read the paper and was humbled. It was excellent. Better than I could have done. Written like a true philosopher. I thought, this girl is so smart, she can do what I do in her spare time. It took everything I had to write a good philosophy paper. Philosophy was a sleeper course for her. Years later, I was in graduate school. I was taking Quantitative Methods. I sat next to some kid that was no more that 20 years old. We were doing linear equations and I was definitely struggling. The kid was coloring in the swoosh stripe on his Nike sneaker. I asked him if he was bored. He said yes. He was an aeronautical engineer for Martin Marietta and was in Philadelphia on a two-year assignment with Boeing. He decided to get an MBA to keep busy at night. My sister Kathleen is that kind of smart. My years between high school and college were marred with a tragedy that struck my sister Kathleen and impacted my entire family. While at Notre Dame, Kathleen met a man. Greg. Greg was a chemist. Both Kathleen and Greg went together to MIT. One organic, the other inorganic. They were bookends, made for each other. They married, graduated, and started their careers. On a family outing to an amusement park in Pennsylvania, Greg suffered a heart attack. Greg died that day at Hershey Medical Center. We had gone in two cars. Kathleen and my parents drove home in one, we in the other. I carried Greg's clothes in a plastic bag. It is by the grace of God that I still have faith after this experience. Kathleen is special, you see. She didn't grow up as the rest of us did. In grade school, she was very tall. The nuns called her giraffe. In high school, she was smarter than her teachers. She went to a private school in downtown Philadelphia. As smart as Kathleen is, she seemed to me equally fragile. The rest of our family was pretty "normal". We all got in trouble. We all had friends. We went to regular schools. We were more average. Kathleen was extraordinary. Extraordinary and delicate. I was so happy when she met her husband. He balanced her. He could calm her. He was her match. He was a Godsend. Then he was taken away. A heart attack at age 26. Greg never smoked, drank very little, and ate properly. It was just his time. I held anger with God for a very long time over this death. Kathleen kept her job with a pharmaceutical company. She lives alone with three dogs. She spends time each month with my mother in Philadelphia. But she is not the same. The years she has spent alone since Greg died have changed her. She was always unique. Almost eccentric. But when she was with Greg, she seemed ecstatic. During that time, she became bright, alive, and joyful. What kind of a God would interact with her life in such a way? Where were mercy and grace? Kathleen still talks of Greg as if she saw him yesterday. She might say, ' well, that's not what Greg would have done'. I'm a little older now. I know there are no answers to my questions of that time. Sometimes, though, I am able to think differently. I think at times when I'm saddened about Kathleen, " what if she is really not as fragile as you think. What if instead, she's the toughest woman you've ever come to know?" Could be, couldn't it. She might just be the smartest, toughest person I've ever met. Yes, she loves her dogs. No, she's not remarried. She had her heart torn apart. What should be expected? Here is another thought. What if she was sent to Greg, rather than Greg to her? What if Greg's time was limited and God gave him a little happiness by giving him the smartest, toughest girl in the world to live with in his short time? Could be, couldn't it? I find it punishing that while God warmed my heart during those years, he stopped Greg's and severed Kathleen's. Three hearts all experiencing their appropriate vocation. Mine; by far was the easiest. Kathleen's by far, the toughest. Greg's by far, the most absolute. I struggle to talk with Kathleen today. Her suffering humbles me. It makes me feel like a child. Like the philosophy paper that she did in her sleeper course. Any suffering I do, she's done in her free time. In her sleeper life. I find it a fair argument to say that God didn't only send one son to suffer for others. He also sent a daughter named Kathleen. I think about Kathleen every day. She doesn't know that. I only call once in a while. I never quite know what to say. We live far apart. But I think of Kathleen every day. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:23:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: HOSL Demo Remastering Offer We've recently acquired the most recent version of Sound Forge, a complete digital remastering software suite. So if anyone would care to send along a copy of the HOSL demo, we'd be more than happy to digitally restore and remaster it, then make it available as a Tape Tree on CDR. Obviously the better the source material, the better the final results of enhancement. If interested, please e-mail me privately. Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:15:37 -0400 From: LOREN CARTER Subject: For Ric - NJC -Reply All, The amount of caring, consideration, and plain old empathy that's visible on this message list is amazing. This past post brought me to tears. Granted, these past few days that's not that hard to do. Yesterday I was diagnosed with MS, and I've been spending a lot of time with the "why mes?...why do I deserve this? who did I piss off? what did I do in a former life? Anyway, it's nice to know that if I need a shoulder to cry on, or a sympathetic ear, you all are here. Listening, not judging, and caring. I can't speak about this quite yet, typing is so much easier. Maybe in a while when I get over the shock, I can speak openly about this disease, but not right now. thanks, Loren...... >>> 07/20/99 10:33am >>> Kathleen My oldest sister is named Kathleen. She is one year younger than my older brother and about 8 or 9 years older than me. She is a genius. Wide bandwidth as they call it in today's terms. Kathleen was a National Merit Scholar. Phi Beta Kappa. She earned her undergraduate degree at Notre Dame and received her Ph.D. in Chemistry from MIT. I majored in philosophy. One time, years after college, I was rooting through a closet in my mother's house and I found a term paper written by Kathleen. It was a philosophy paper. I thought, ah ha! We'll see how smart she really is. I read the paper and was humbled. It was excellent. Better than I could have done. Written like a true philosopher. I thought, this girl is so smart, she can do what I do in her spare time. It took everything I had to write a good philosophy paper. Philosophy was a sleeper course for her. Years later, I was in graduate school. I was taking Quantitative Methods. I sat next to some kid that was no more that 20 years old. We were doing linear equations and I was definitely struggling. The kid was coloring in the swoosh stripe on his Nike sneaker. I asked him if he was bored. He said yes. He was an aeronautical engineer for Martin Marietta and was in Philadelphia on a two-year assignment with Boeing. He decided to get an MBA to keep busy at night. My sister Kathleen is that kind of smart. My years between high school and college were marred with a tragedy that struck my sister Kathleen and impacted my entire family. While at Notre Dame, Kathleen met a man. Greg. Greg was a chemist. Both Kathleen and Greg went together to MIT. One organic, the other inorganic. They were bookends, made for each other. They married, graduated, and started their careers. On a family outing to an amusement park in Pennsylvania, Greg suffered a heart attack. Greg died that day at Hershey Medical Center. We had gone in two cars. Kathleen and my parents drove home in one, we in the other. I carried Greg's clothes in a plastic bag. It is by the grace of God that I still have faith after this experience. Kathleen is special, you see. She didn't grow up as the rest of us did. In grade school, she was very tall. The nuns called her giraffe. In high school, she was smarter than her teachers. She went to a private school in downtown Philadelphia. As smart as Kathleen is, she seemed to me equally fragile. The rest of our family was pretty "normal". We all got in trouble. We all had friends. We went to regular schools. We were more average. Kathleen was extraordinary. Extraordinary and delicate. I was so happy when she met her husband. He balanced her. He could calm her. He was her match. He was a Godsend. Then he was taken away. A heart attack at age 26. Greg never smoked, drank very little, and ate properly. It was just his time. I held anger with God for a very long time over this death. Kathleen kept her job with a pharmaceutical company. She lives alone with three dogs. She spends time each month with my mother in Philadelphia. But she is not the same. The years she has spent alone since Greg died have changed her. She was always unique. Almost eccentric. But when she was with Greg, she seemed ecstatic. During that time, she became bright, alive, and joyful. What kind of a God would interact with her life in such a way? Where were mercy and grace? Kathleen still talks of Greg as if she saw him yesterday. She might say, ' well, that's not what Greg would have done'. I'm a little older now. I know there are no answers to my questions of that time. Sometimes, though, I am able to think differently. I think at times when I'm saddened about Kathleen, " what if she is really not as fragile as you think. What if instead, she's the toughest woman you've ever come to know?" Could be, couldn't it. She might just be the smartest, toughest person I've ever met. Yes, she loves her dogs. No, she's not remarried. She had her heart torn apart. What should be expected? Here is another thought. What if she was sent to Greg, rather than Greg to her? What if Greg's time was limited and God gave him a little happiness by giving him the smartest, toughest girl in the world to live with in his short time? Could be, couldn't it? I find it punishing that while God warmed my heart during those years, he stopped Greg's and severed Kathleen's. Three hearts all experiencing their appropriate vocation. Mine; by far was the easiest. Kathleen's by far, the toughest. Greg's by far, the most absolute. I struggle to talk with Kathleen today. Her suffering humbles me. It makes me feel like a child. Like the philosophy paper that she did in her sleeper course. Any suffering I do, she's done in her free time. In her sleeper life. I find it a fair argument to say that God didn't only send one son to suffer for others. He also sent a daughter named Kathleen. I think about Kathleen every day. She doesn't know that. I only call once in a while. I never quite know what to say. We live far apart. But I think of Kathleen every day. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:22:54 PDT From: "Chad Burkhart" Subject: Re:happy anniversary to me Deb, First of all, I would like to wish you a happy anniversary of 30 years of joni!!! I am just a youngin' here on the list (24) and only just discovered Joni a few years back due to some friends and my girlfriend. They would always listen to Blue, being the only album they had in good condition. I fell in love just as you did with Clouds. The reason that I am writing is because I can relate with you on the song Gallery. The first time that I listened to my Clouds album, I didn't really like it until along came this Gallery song. I have to tell you that it was a very emotional experience I had never cried before while listening to a song but I just burst out in tears. I guess that I was going through an emotional time anyway and I was so moved by the song that I broke down. To this day I tear up every time I hear that song, and for some reason, I do the same with Real Good For Free. Anyway, just thought I'd share. Keep Smiling.Yours always, Chadly From Mountains ICQ = 41775889 Go where you will go to Know that I will know you Someday I may know you very well ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:50:19 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re:happy anniversary to me Deb, Chad & all, I am amazed at Deb remembering her first Joni purchase! My ol' gray matter has trouble remembering what day it is. I do like the lines that Chad pulled from Michael From Mountains. When I think of how many of us from this list have met each other .... these lines seem approprate :-) Thanks for sharing, Chad. Heather Go where you will go to Know that I will know you Someday I may know you very well ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:42:22 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: For Ric - NJC I am not embarrassed to say that your post about your sister Kathleen made me cry. Thank you for sharing this. I, for one, feel fortunate to have been able to appreciate your thoughts. Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:53:00 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Fairport's Chelsea Morning In a message dated 7/20/1999 6:55:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, messling@enter.net writes: << The "woke up big" is repeated in each stanza. Is this really how Fairport sings it?? >> No not at all. She Says...Woke up it was Chelsea Morning. Catgirl NP- Chelsea Morning performed by the great Judy Dyble...what ever happen to her??? What ashame that no one put this on a tape tree. It is VERY different! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:04:59 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Conquered (moon) You caught me. The very night I sent off the "moon" e-mail, wondering why the moon would be "trampled" twice, I was awakened at about 4 a.m. by that voice in my head that's always telling me about my mistakes, chastising me for getting the words wrong. It had been churning 'round in the backroom of my brain for a while. In "Willie", the moon is conquered, not trampled. There had probably only been one moonwalk at the time;) Laziness and the sneaking suspicion that some other eagle eye (or ear) would pick this up held me back from 'fessing up to the error. Shine on, conquered moon. cateri@hotmail.com P.S. You're a virgo, aren't you! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:00:25 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: New Granddaughter and Steelye Span NJC In a message dated 7/20/1999 3:42:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << Kay wrote: > I had the amazing and tremendous honor to spend several hours dining with > Joni, Don Freed, Chaka Khan and studly young beau (she's no dummy), Eric > Andersen and daughters, and Danny Kapilian (the Joni's Jazz organizer) > after the Joni's Jazz show. Someone had asked about the new baby. The new > grandchild is a girl, and her name is Daisy Joan, if memory serves. Also, > I think Joni said that she was born on June 18. I will make no assumptions > about the status of the relationship between Joni and Don, but they > certainly looked "together" and were very openly affectionate. I am so green with envy. All I want to do is meet the women and you go and have dinner and schmooze with her and all those other celebs!! How the helll did you manage that one??? Inquiering cats want to know! Catgirl..NP- New York Girls- Steeleye Span..song just ended....now hearing some one from the band say something like...*I say are you a matelere(?) careful what you say sir, were on board ship here....* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:30:47 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Expensive collectable vinyl Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:06:48 +0100 From: Martin Giles Jim wrote.. Jim, I'd be a bit careful here. It might be 180 grams but it might also be unplayable. Test pressings are just what they sound like. They're tests to see if everything (anything) is O.K. Quite often they're not. The last test pressing I encountered, was so warped I couldn't drop the needle anywhere near the outside edge without it flying straight off again. The pressing plant hadn't got the cooling process right. They can get a lot of other things wrong aswell, as indeed can the cutting engineer. I'd be suspicious that these things are a complete rip-off. (Even if they were only $10). But then I'm not a real collector of this sort of stuff. If the items are listed as 'never released' I imagine that there really was something wrong. Their value is only in their rarity, typically only 10 or 20 TPs are made. Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:34:11 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Lily, Joni, ice-cream, smokin' Just picking up on a number of items that have appeared in the latest "digest". On the subject of Lily Tomlin and The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe - Lily IS probably one of the few forms of intelligent life in this universe. She has to be a Joni Mitchell fan. I wonder why everything has to be a media circus these days? Is it because everything is so immediate? I mean, we can practically BE there any time a major world event happens. They're showing us live-action bombings in Europe and kids starving in Africa as it happens. In a way, that can somehow numb a person to the real tragedy. Is it just we in North America that get all the hype over the Kennedys and so on? I'd be interested to know if it's the same in Europe and Australia and so on. Here in Toronto where I am, we get all the US TV stations as well as the Canadian ones. As such, it's difficult to know how much is us being influenced by the American media and how much is original Canadian hype. They keep playing up the "Kennedy curse" and all the tragedy that has hit that family. True enough, I suppose, and it is tragic and all that, but I know many people whose families have undergone similar bouts of tragedy and pain. To reduce it to simple terms, and with no intent to devalue the sadness of this recent loss, the Kennedy family is a large one, so the odds of things happening are pretty good (or bad, depending on point of view.) Add to that some high-risk behaviours, compared to what the rest of us peasants do (flying planes, playing ski-football(!!), being a politician, being famous), and something's bound to happen. Too bad - but don't these people deserve a little privacy? On a lighter note... Ravine, Raveen, curls - interesting that they actually corrected the mistake on the CD if indeed they did. I did buy the CD, but I can't read the small type on it, so wouldn't have thought of comparing. Isn't Raveen one of those hypnotist/magician types? ;) Kay - who ARE you? What a lucky person you are! I'm with Heather Galli - we JMDLies need more! The really important stuff, like, what kind of gum WAS she chewing anyway? Re: Kay's "Myths to be dispelled: "Ice cream melting on a piece of pie" is not a sexual reference"... My ribs are aching from laughter. Catgirl, I'm with you. Do you think that "Smoking (empy, empty, try another)" track on DED was put on because they had a little extra time left on the tape when they were winding up recording? Do you think maybe it was some kind of a sick joke? I sure hope so. That has to be the all-time worst song Joni ever did. (It has to be a joke, n'est-ce pas?) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:45:34 +0100 From: catman Subject: IT WAS A JOKE! NJC i wrote the paragraph below to the list a while ago. It has come to my attention that it was taken as serious and not the joke I intended. I really didn't think I'd have to point that out! Actually, this has been suggested several times but has never amounted to anything. Although it is quite possible it did happen and I was just left out, being a bit crazy you know! Alright I know I was sectioned once but really it was a long long time ago and as long as I take my pills and you don't say anything to set me off I am perfectly safe to be around. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:50:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - July 24 1983: Joni performs at Jones Beach in Wantaugh, NY - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:49:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - July 22 1979: Joni performs in New York City 1983: Joni performs at Meriwether Post Pavillion in Maryland - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:52:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - July 28 1966: Today the Saskatoon Star Phoenix publishes a story on Joni called "Rising Folk Singer From Saskatoon Discusses Career." It reads, in part, "Mrs. Anderson, as proud as a mother could be of her daughter's success, gave details of Joni's career, while we thumbed through a scrapbook filled with press notices of her performances in several major North American cities. Critics in Toronto, Detroit, and Calgary (where she first started to sing) had nothing but praise for her ability and originality as a folk performer." Read the entire article and see a picture at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/SaskatoonStar.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:50:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - July 21 1973: Joni performs in Kona, Hawaii 1990: Joni takes part in Roger Waters' staging of "The Wall" at the site of the Berlin Wall in Potzdamer Platz, Berlin, Germany, singing Goodbye Blue Sky. The event is broadcast live throughout the world, and raises money for the Memorial Fund For Disaster Relief. (from Wally's bio): The concert ... included guest singers and musicians such as Sinead O'Connor, Van Morrison, Cyndi Lauper, Bryan Adams, Paul Carrack of Mike and the Mechanics, the Band, the Scorpions, etc. Joni was joined onstage by flutist James Galway, performing with a pre-recorded backing track on the song "Goodbye, Blue Sky." She also re-appeared at the finale and sang a few solo lines for "The Tide Is Turning" clustered with Sinead O'Connor, Thomas Dolby and Bryan Adams at one side of an elevated platform. View pictures of the event at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/TheWallBerlin90.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:51:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - July 26 1970: Joni performs at the Mariposa Folk Festival 1979: Today's issue of Rolling Stone features "The Joni Mitchell Interview" and Joni on the cover. Ben Fong-Torres wrote of the interview years later: "With Rolling Stone, I had my own little territory," says Cameron Crowe, who in 1979 lived in Los Angeles. "I became identified with Southern California musicians: The Eagles; Joe Walsh; Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young... and I'd run across Joni Mitchell in various situations for seven years. And I pestered her for an interview for seven years. I even wrote her a letter when Don Juan's Reckless Daughter came out (in early 1978), saying, this was the time for her to talk. She was not interested." Especially in Rolling Stone, which she had not forgiven for calling her a "groupie" in a yearend awards issue. She hadn't spoken to the magazine in eight years. But shortly after Mitchell finished Mingus, her collaboration with the jazz bassist Charles Mingus, Crowe got a call from her manager. "He said she wanted to talk and wanted to talk to me and she didn't care who for." Crowe called Rolling Stone. And although Mitchell had hit her commercial peak with the 1974 album, Court and Spark, and had been moving for several years into jazz—that is, away from her mass audience—there was no question. We wanted to hear from her. Read the entire interview at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/rs79.htm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:19:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Lily, Joni, ice-cream, smokin' > Catgirl, I'm with you. Do you think that "Smokin" > has > to be the all-time > worst song Joni ever did. (It has to be a joke, > n'est-ce pas?) Well "Smokin" certainly takes the award for the all-time most maligned cut Joni's ever recorded. Let's face it, it's a lot like "South Park" -- there's something in it to offend pretty much anyone. The acoustic sensibility is offended by the sampled cigarette machine as the rhythm section. The anti-tobacco lobby is up in arms, as the song "obviously" promotes underage nicotine addiction. The poets don't understand the "empty-empty" chanting. "And what's up with that god-awful bass line?" the members of the Jaco Pastorious fan club ask themselves. Okay, for all that, "Smokin" is still a delightful and elegant little joke. They can't all be Songs for Sharon, you know, and at least Joni has a sense of humor enough to poke a little fun at herself in the process. Besides, there's more going on here than meets the eye ... Catgirl is impressed by Joni's rhythmic sense, or has so posted in the past. "Smokin" is a classic example of this. Listen to the way Joni's looped the empty cigarette machine until it actually becomes a 10/8 beat. That didn't just happen, you know, though it sounds for all the world like it did. Around this loop, the machine's buzz actually becomes the "drone" chord of the entire song, around which the rest of the harmonies revolve. If you listen just right, it has the ring and feel of a jig or reel, played on a robotic set of bagpipes (an annoying enough instrument in it's own right, to some ears). But again, this didn't just happen. And like all good novelties, the timing of "Smokin" is perfect. Sure it's a novelty, so it ought to be over just about the time you "get it". And it does just that. But the biggest joke of all is probably on Geffen. Record companies only pay for 10 cuts an album ... and in my opinion, DED wouldn't be half as effective as it is without it's one rather expensive gem of comic relief. "No regrets coyote" ... Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:51:52 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Lily, Joni, ice-cream, smokin' Jeez, Don, thanks for clearing that up... >Catgirl is impressed by Joni's rhythmic sense, or has >so posted in the past. "Smokin" is a classic example >of this. Listen to the way Joni's looped the empty >cigarette machine until it actually becomes a 10/8 >beat. That explains everyhing. I can't count past 4. I ran out of toes ;) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:38:31 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Media Circus (NJC) Catherine wrote: >I wonder why everything has to be a media circus these days? Is it because >everything is so immediate? They keep playing up the "Kennedy curse" and all the tragedy that has >hit that family. I watched the coverage on all the news channels for hours on Saturday and there was something that just bugged me abut it all. I understand that most of the news anchors/commentators were in a state of shock (several of them were personal friends of John), but there was a redundancy and canned hyperbolic feel to much of the coverage which seemed almost perverse in light of the actual reality of the tragedy unfolding. The T.V. critic Howard Rosenberg articulated this all perfectly yesterday in the L.A. Times. At the same time, I can understand how the media would not know quite how to best cover it - it's such a shock, especially because he was so young and had been set up by our culture to be an icon from day one. I'm still having a hard time myself comprehending it all. These past few days I have been thinking that the New York/New England JMDL'ers would have much to contribute in commenting their thoughts on this sad event. Sure enough, Debra and Duane have come through and I really appreciate their posts. By all accounts, Kennedy was a very regular, down-to-earth, friendly and personable man around the neighborhoods of NYC. I always marveled as his constant good nature and good heartedness. I wish the media could have been more thoughtful and directed their emphasis to the real human beings involved instead of their iconic sound and photo byte images. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:21:29 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: Media Circus (NJC) What will come of this is a dramatic shift in the Kennedy publicity machine. As JFK was the most high profile of the Kennedy brothers, his off-spring hold the most public magnetism. Where John Jr. held the most promise for a future high profile career in politics (secretly I believe a lot of my generation felt that he could rebirth the ideals of the sixties his father was instrumental in, negating all the corporate republicanism we struggle with time and again) Caroline, second to John Jr. is by far the most condusive to power. All the other Kennedys, Shivers, Lawfords, etc. can acquire fame and fortune, but power is a whole other thing. Caroline will naturally replace a very persuasive and influential behind-the-scenes persuasive matriarch like her grandmother Rose. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:39:53 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Media Circus (NJC) Kakki wrote: >I watched the coverage on all the news channels for hours on Saturday and >there was something that just bugged me abut it all. I understand that >most >of the news anchors/commentators were in a state of shock (several of them >were personal friends of John), but there was a redundancy and canned >hyperbolic feel to much of the coverage which seemed almost perverse in >light of the actual reality of the tragedy unfolding. I guess it's unfair of me to blame the media. They would argue that it's public demand that motivates them. People seem to have an insatiable appetite for the sensational. It's like it has all become a big gossip-fest. You end up with a bunch of news types standing around on a beach waiting for something new to happen that they can report on, but in the meantime, they've got to fill in dead air. So it's replay, replay, replay and a bunch of silly quotes to fill up the silence. God help Caroline. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:07:56 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: Media Circus (NJC) In a message dated 7/20/99 3:59:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << By all accounts, Kennedy was a very regular, down-to-earth, friendly and personable man around the neighborhoods of NYC >> Another added dimension to this is the fact the in real dollars and relative to the new internet money floating around these days, the Kennedy family isn't that rich anymore. The same thing goes for the Vanderbilts. John Jr. and Caroline had the Onassis money backing them up, which could never be fully depleted in one lifetime. On all accounts the Kennedy's et al are rich, but in the big picture, they really aren't. The charming thing about John Jr. and Caroline (All credit to their mother's breading and successful mothering) was their approachable "normal" perspective. I don't get that from someone like Maria Shriver (although I don't know her personally, I get a sense of a stand-offish shield, hiding behind Hollywood money). It goes back to the sixties ideology, of we're all created equal, regardless of our circumstance. I have the priveledge of knowing people in the upper eschelon of society and the more successful they are, the more organic and down to earth they are. At least, this is a lesson I've learned and an enlightened attitude that took some time adjusting to. Most people consider wealthy people exclusionary. Where some are as a result of their own insecurities, the one's that I care to associate with are not. NP: A Journey Through Electronica- Virgin Compilation ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:49:25 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Lily, Joni, ice-cream, smokin' In a message dated 7/20/99 1:37:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: > Ravine, Raveen, curls - interesting that they actually corrected the mistake > on the CD if indeed they did. I did buy the CD, but I can't read the small > type on it, so wouldn't have thought of comparing. Isn't Raveen one of > those hypnotist/magician types? ;) I truly don't mean this in a police-like way, but my LP says Raven, not Ravine. The only reason I mention it, really, is because I wonder if others' copies actually say Ravine. I know it's picky of me, but I really like to keep track of these little discrepancies in printed lyrics. Take care, Gina NP: Rock In This Pocket, from 99.9 F, Suzanne Vega ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:08:16 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Smokin' In a message dated 7/20/1999 2:24:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: << > Catgirl, I'm with you. Do you think that "Smokin" > has > to be the all-time > worst song Joni ever did. (It has to be a joke, > n'est-ce pas?) Well "Smokin" certainly takes the award for the all-time most maligned cut Joni's ever recorded. >> Everyone always wants to know more about Joni. Everyone keeps waiting for another confessional album like "Blue". Look no further. "Smokin'" is perhaps one of the most revealing songs that Joni has ever written. This song says it all: Joni has a wonderful sense of humor, a wonderful sense of irony, and the ability to make music out of just about anything. Everytime I hear "Smokin'", I chuckle along side Joni. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:36:22 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: SIQUOMB/SIDHE Hello all! Those of you who have experienced any of the jmdl get- togethers at the Kakkishack, or any of the events that Kakki has organized, know how wonderful she is at this stuff. I've been thinking that we need an acronym for her (a la SIQUOMB), and what popped into my head but SIDHE (She Is Definitely Hostess Extraordinaire), pronounced "she" and the Irish word for female spirit. Banshee (Wow! A Joni STAS connection!) is the anglicized Bean Sidhe, BTW. Any other ideas? ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:35:53 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Re: Media Circus (NJC) The non-stop live coverage of this tragedy can be traced to one word: jawline Yes, John-John was a famous President's child. But so is Caroline. Does anyone honestly believe that if *her* plane had disappeared the coverage would have been quite so never- ending? Sure, it would have been news, but non-stop live? Uh-uh. Jr. was sexy. Extremely sexy. That's why his fame persisted, and that's why he could successfully turn his lineage into a media frenzy whenever he wished. Another thing I can't help noticing: all of these deaths are tragic, indeed, but they're all rich people's deaths. Most of the people I know will never die skiing in Aspen or piloting a private plane (or break a leg para-sailing), much less be assassinated in a Presidential motorcade. This does not make their deaths less serious or less noteworthy than those of "normal" people, but it sure does color any talk of a family "curse." There are lots of risks many people might like to take but are prevented from taking because of financial (or other) restraints. Remove those restraints, take the risks. Take the risks: you win some, you lose some. - --Michael - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #317 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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