From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #312 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, July 17 1999 Volume 04 : Number 312 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Guitar Tuning (NJC) [pyramus ] Elliott in New York NJC ["Hejira" ] UK JMDL meeting ["Phil Klein" ] Hello Sailor !NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Paved Paradise Book ["Paul Castle" ] Re: UK JMDL meeting [catman ] Marcie - Where is she now? ["Paul Castle" ] Re: UK JMDL meeting [Howard Wright ] Guitar advice NJC ["Phil Klein" ] Re: Joni's Standard's "To Go" [RMuRocks@aol.com] Taming the Tiger - Joni's version of 'Cats'? ["Paul Castle" ] JM in RS ["Reuben Bell3" ] Re: Hello Sailor !NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Taming the Tiger - Joni's version of 'Cats'? ["Mark or Travis" ] Guitar, electronic tuner ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Taming the Tiger - Joni's version of 'Cats'? [Ginamu@aol.com] Gorsky & the moon ["Catherine McKay" ] Cats ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Parody (no warnings) ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Re: Paved Paradise Book [SMEBD@aol.com] Crosby Tour (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] UK JoniFesters unite [Les Irvin ] guitar stuff [Jenaya Dawe ] NJC -Thanks! [Heather Galli ] New midi file ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Re: Guitar Advice - NJC [Allison Fernley ] Re: Beatles/Mia (NJC) [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again [pam tompkins ] Worthy Project NJC [Howard Motyl ] Re: Guitars (SJC) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Guitar advice NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Gorsky & the moon [AzeemAK@aol.com] A Wizard A true Star??? [michael paz ] Re: NJC punctuation (was dog eat dog, and '80s joni again) [Jason Maloney] Re: Guitar Advice - NJC ["Kakki" ] NJC -- Jussi -- NJC [davidmarine1@webtv.net (David Marine)] Re: A Wizard A true Star??? [RMuRocks@aol.com] RE: NJC punctuation ["Wally Kairuz" ] VG-8 and Parker Guitars [Michael Paz ] looking for mercy street...(NJC, and long...) [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: NJC punctuation [Vince Lavieri ] Re: looking for mercy street...(NJC, and long...) [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Guitar Advice - NJC [TerryM2442@aol.com] A Joni Moment today [Brian Gross ] Re: looking for mercy street...(NJC, and long...) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: looking for mercy street...(NJC, and long...) ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:42:43 +0100 From: pyramus Subject: Guitar Tuning (NJC) Krys wrote: << I've got a teach yourself book but got stuck because I don't know how to tune the thing. Does anyone recommend those electronic tuner things? Would they help a total amateur like me? >> Hi Krys. Did you know you can tune off the 'net? Try http://www.710.com/reload/fun/tune.htm This site uses radio buttons to tune to a Martin Acoustic, quartz tuned to ref. a=440. Seems to work. Anyhow, I thought that in an earlier message you said you were a witch. Can't you just wiggle your nose to tune your guitar? ;-) :-) Love Kevin D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:00:57 +0100 From: "Hejira" Subject: Elliott in New York NJC HI Elliott I couldn't find your email to thank you personally for the tapes that came this morning. So I say THANKYOU here. I love the HOSL demo to me it sounds a bit like the dog eat dog unplugged stuff what do you think? Thanks so much Stay in touch Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:40:15 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: UK JMDL meeting Krys and Geoff wrote: > In message , Howard Wright writes > >Put me down as a definite maybe ;-) > >A weekend would definitely suit me better. I'd be happy to bring a guitar > >to strum and a bottle of malt whisky to share. > > I can bring a guitar but can't play yet! Though I do sing. > > > >Not sure how far it is from Worcester to Colin's place, but I think it > >should be easy enough by train. > > Welcome to the Midlands! Worcester to March ought to be fairly easy by > train I think. Have a save and happy move. > > Love and peace, > Krys XXXX > I'd be happy to bring a guitar as well. Hmm, I don't suppose Howard could be persuaded to bring his VG8?? If so, I could bring my leccy guitar as well, if I can successfully negotiate the car. But before we turn the whole thing into a Joni jam session, let's ask Colin what he would like the meet to be about - maybe he doesn't want people wailing and strumming in his house all weekend! It's his bash, after all. Phil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:50:28 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Hello Sailor !NJC) Ashara (who has all Steeleye Span's albums) - Do you (or anyone) have 'Commoners Crown' on vinyl? Do you know who played acoustic ukelele on 'New York Girls'? Does your copy have the bonus track? I've just read that the UK LP release of 'Commoners Crown' has a bonus hiding in the runout track. The last track on the album: 'New York Girls', features Peter Sellers on acoustic ukelele (and various Goon Show voices). At the very end he comes in with his Major Dennis Bloodnock voice, saying "I say sir, are you a matelot?" "Careful what you say sir! We're aboard ship here." This would normally be missed by automatic record changers and does not appear on the CD release. Talking of Peter Sellers, my favourite 'Bloodnock' is "Jump, you fool. 'Either I'll catch you or the ground will break your fall! PaulC who used to be in a 6-piece folk group called 'Out to Lunch' who played 'New York Girls' (without ukelele) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:51:29 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Paved Paradise Book I recently saw an advert in a British magazine for a book called 'Paved Paradise'. The cover picture appears to be a drawing of Joni wearing a black Tina Turner-style wig. Does anyone on the list know anything about this? - going to the publisher's website at http://www.dmac.co.uk/agenda.html I found this blurb: JONI MITCHELL, PAVED PARADISE. Joni rose to fame in the sixties with beautiful albums such as 'Ladies of the Canyon' and 'Clouds'. Joni is also a painter and in recent years she has devoted more time to art and has become a sought-after artist. Many of her albums have displayed her artwork and she won an award for her design of her compact disc booklet for 'Turbulent Indigo'. She wrote the song for Woodstock but was not present at the Festival of Love. Joni has used her lyrics to speak to ex-lovers, her parents, new lovers, and her child that was adopted. Some of the songs are extremely personal, exorcising many ghosts. Joni's officially released albums are evaluated in this track-by-track analysis. She joins Leonard Cohen, Neil Young, and Gordon Lightfoot as one of the greatest Canadian singer songwriters of the modern generation. Her love of folk music merged into jazz and then rock 'n' roll, at all times her lyrics have been thought provoking, after all she has seen the World from both sides now! JONI MITCHELL, PAVED PARADISE ISBN 1 899882 855 Paperback 210 x 150mm PRICE £6.99 Personally, this blurb and (what looks like) its truly awful cover doesn't exactly inspire me to rush out and buy a copy - unless someone on the JMDL can recommend -- ? -- PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:53:06 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: UK JMDL meeting I am too ill right now to think clearly. of course people can bring guitars etc. But if people were planning to stay the weekrnd thy should know I only have one bed and two upstaris rooms belong to cats. it seems I don't have colic after all but food poisoning. I have never been this ill. Had to rush martha dog to vet this morning too. she is very very ill. i feel like crap. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:54:00 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Marcie - Where is she now? When visiting London back in September 1968, Joni was interviewed by Karl Dallas in Melody Maker. "My lyrics are influenced by Leonard [Cohen]," she admits. "We never knew each other in Canada, but after we met at Newport last year we saw a lot of each other. My song 'Marcie,' has a lot of him in it, and some of Leonard's religious imagery, which comes from being a Jew in a predominantly Catholic, seems to have rubbed off on me, too. 'Marcie' is about a girl waiting for a letter that never comes, who walks out of the last verse to go west again. Is Marcie Joni? "I suppose so, really. Marcie is a real girl, she lives in London. I used her name, because I wanted a two-syllable name. But I'm the girl in all these songs." _________ Does Marcie still live in London, I wonder? Does she know? Does she lurk? Or did she go west again, to Bristol or to Bath, maybe? PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:53:51 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: Re: UK JMDL meeting > > Howard Wright writes > > > > > >Put me down as a definite maybe ;-) > > >A weekend would definitely suit me better. I'd be happy to bring a guitar > > >to strum and a bottle of malt whisky to share. > > Krys wrote: > > I can bring a guitar but can't play yet! Though I do sing. > > > > Love and peace, > > Krys XXXX > > Phil Klein wrote: > > I'd be happy to bring a guitar as well. Hmm, I don't suppose Howard > could be persuaded to bring his VG8?? If so, I could bring my leccy > guitar as well, if I can successfully negotiate the car. But before > we turn the whole thing into a Joni jam session, let's ask Colin > what he would like the meet to be about - maybe he doesn't want > people wailing and strumming in his house all weekend! It's his bash, > after all. > > Phil I wish I could bring my VG8, but ... I don't have one! If I bring anything it will be my acoustic guitar. And you're right, we shouldn't swamp the place with guitars before checking what Colin and everyone else feels about it. I think some playing and singing would probably go down well, but we shouldn't let the guitars take over the evening. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:01:22 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: Guitar advice NJC Krys wrote: > I've got a similar dilemma, can't play a note but have a guitar that's > been gathering dust for 4 years. I've got a teach yourself book but got > stuck because I don't know how to tune the thing. > > Does anyone recommend those electronic tuner things? Would they help a > total amateur like me? > > Love and peace, > Krys XXXXXXXX > Well, I think the answer is yes and no. The electronic tuners do of course work, but you have to have the string there or thereabouts before the tuner registers anything - if its way off tune the device can pick up an overtone in the note and give a false reading. Most tuners work within plus or minus about a full tone or so. Also, the quality of the guitar comes into it. If its a good guitar, no problem, but with a cheapo, you can tune the open strings really accurately, but if you then start playing chords up at the 7th fret or so (hello Joni!!), you may find things are no longer in tune and so you have to find a compromise situation. Its really helpful in the long run to train your ear before using the electronic widget as a final check - when I first started playing (Good God, I've just realised that's 27 years ago!) I used pitch pipes, which are six single note harmonica-sounding things tuned to EADGBE. Then you realise you only need one pitch pipe for one string, and you can tune all the other strings relative to this. After a fairly short while, you get to hear when the string is out. It's a bit like getting kids to learn their times tables and do mental arithmetic before letting them use calculators - I'm old fashioned like that! Good luck!! Phil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:13:22 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Standard's "To Go" Penny said: << But I don't see much similarity between the crowd that Dylan brought in, acting very disrespectful to our Joan at times, and the music lovers that would be going to hear Lyle or Harry Jr, along with Joni. >> Nor do I, which is why I said she could do a lot worse than tour with these guys. << I could see Joni gaining many new, younger? fans in a tour like that. The thought of seeing her solo isn't bad, mind you, but I don't know about doing a standards tour solo. Personally though, I think I still prefer the notion of hearing her with a full symphony. Ooooooohhh!!! >> Those kind of full orchestra tours are VERY cost-prohibitive; my fear is that Reprise would never agree to front the money given Joni's disappointing sales numbers. And come to think of it, "Oooooooohhh!!!" was the exact word I used when I heard Joni's voice come in to that "Stormy Weather" lead-in... :~) Bob NP: Tori, "Pandora's Aquarium" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:32:35 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Taming the Tiger - Joni's version of 'Cats'? Mark mark-n-travis@worldnet.att.net wrote (in his just purrrfect TTT analysis) >And finally 'Here's to You' ..... > Wait a minute. The last track on my copy of TTT is 'Tiger Bones' - did you miss it or is the US version different? PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:49:42 +0100 From: Krys & Geoff Subject: Re: UK JMDL meeting In message , Howard Wright writes >I wish I could bring my VG8, but ... I don't have one! If I bring anything >it will be my acoustic guitar. And you're right, we shouldn't swamp the >place with guitars before checking what Colin and everyone else feels >about it. I think some playing and singing would probably go down well, >but we shouldn't let the guitars take over the evening. > Good point. I won't bring mine because I can't play it yet and it would be a waste of space. I'll stick to singing. BTW, if I've missed anything about dates can someone e-mail me please? My PC has been rejecting occasional mails on/off the past week. :( Can I drag my partner Geoff along? I am trying to train him to like Joni; I played For The Roses last night and he stayed in the room the whole time. Verdict: "I quite liked that one." It may be working.... :) Love and peace, ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:20:58 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: JM in RS There is a rather snitty reference to Joni in the August 6th issue of Rolling Stone (with Ricky Martin on the cover). Its a sidebar on the "VH1 50 Women of Rock" thing, and the author raves about how everyone has behaved themselves in regards to the project. Its mentioned that no one stepped on anyone to get to the top "Not even Madonna." And "No one acts pretentious. Not even Joni Mitchell." I thought it was funny...it was fairly tongue-in-cheek, but I like the idea that everyone has become resigned to the fact that Joni won't play the game. Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 06:25:55 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Hello Sailor !NJC) The last track on the album: 'New York Girls', > features Peter Sellers on acoustic ukelele (and various Goon Show voices). > At the very end he comes in with his Major Dennis Bloodnock > voice, saying > > "I say sir, are you a matelot?" > "Careful what you say sir! We're aboard ship here." > My vinyl copy of Commoner's Crown does have this. I remember being disappointed when I finally bought the cd to find that it wasn't there. I love this particular record. It has a great album cover, too, btw. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 06:35:30 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Taming the Tiger - Joni's version of 'Cats'? > > >And finally 'Here's to You' ..... > > > Wait a minute. The last track on my copy of TTT is 'Tiger Bones' - did you > miss it or is the US version different? > > PaulC > Well pull my whiskers & call me Sylvster! I plumb forgot Tiger Bones! Mark in Seattle choking on a furball at the moment at his gross oversight! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:40:06 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: Guitars (SJC) On the subject of inexpensive guitars for a beginner, I think the Yamahas are very comfortable for someone who doesn't quite have dexterity yet. Yamaha instruments, in general, have a bright sound. The Yamahas have a nice sound but if you're used to hearing a darker 12 string, a Martin, for example, then the Yamahas may sound tinny (sp?). Anyway, I started on a Fender and the sound is great. Most people who played that guitar said that they loved the sound. The neck was a bit wide which made it easier for me to play electric guitars. On the subject of Joni pairings, I don't really think that Bob & Joni were mismatched at all. Maybe it has to do with living in NYC because I found that most of the people I meet here that love Joni also love Dylan and Bob has also been playing songs that he considers standards. Like when he played The Times We've Known by Charles Aznevour on last the tour last fall. I do think it would be great to pair Joni with some up and coming artist. Someone mentioned Aimee Mann or maybe someone like DeeDee Bridgewater. Her last album, Dear Ella, is fantastic. On another note, I saw Richie Havens last night and anyone planning on going to Bethel can see many Woodstock `69 artists on August 15th. Richie told me that they're "trying to get all the people from the original festival to play that day, the ones that are still alive!" I don't think Joni will perform there again but "one never knows, do one?" BTW, my sister-in-law is from the Midlands and now lives in Surrey with my brother but when I come over in the fall, I'd love to meet some of you and have a pint or two! Take care all. Janene np: Marvin Gaye: What's Going On ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:41:17 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Guitar, electronic tuner My first impulse was to say that the electronic tuners work very well. They're tuned to an A, so you have to tune your A string to it, then work from there to capture the tunings for the other strings by fretting at the proper place. However, you really have to be able to hear the vibrations on both the tuner and your string in order to know whether you're really right on the note and that takes some time to get used to. For that reason, the tuning fork may be a better idea - if you're right in tune, your string will vibrate in sympathy with the tuning fork and it's easier to detect than with the electronic thingy. If you can afford it, take at least a few lessons from a good guitar teacher. At the very least, go into a good music store (where they sell guitars!) and ask a lot of questions. If they're any good, they'll be only too happy to help you out. It is possible to teach yourself guitar, but it would probably go much faster with the help of a good teacher. They don't smack people over the hands anymore for making mistakes;} cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:43:21 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Taming the Tiger - Joni's version of 'Cats'? In a message dated 7/16/99 9:38:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mark-n-travis@worldnet.att.net writes: > Well pull my whiskers & call me Sylvster! I plumb forgot Tiger Bones! > > Mark in Seattle choking on a furball at the moment at his gross > oversight! I find myself forgetting it too sometimes because of the long paws...uuuh...I mean pause, before it. Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:02:48 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Gorsky & the moon Loved the Gorsky story. Hmm, I had a Mrs Gorsky as a teacher once. Could it be the same one? Nah. Since you mention moon-landings and so on, there is a Joni tie-in. She makes many references in her music to the moon. Some of them are optimistic, others far from. Lots of references to the fact that man's landing on the moon is a sort of defilement, e.g. >He stood looking through the lace >at the face of the trampled moon >Snakes and snails and puppy tails >Are wagging in the womb >Beneath the trampled moon >Don't interrupt the sorrow >Darn right >He says "We walked on the moon >You be polite" cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:07:20 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Cats Thank you for sharing that. My cats, Emily (aka Smudge) and Charlotte (aka HuncaMunca) loved it too. They are grinning big kitty grins. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:57:04 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Re: Parody (no warnings) Thanks, greatfuldave for the parody. It's sad to think that a life like that is reality for so many young people today. Thanks again for reminding me how good I have it. - -Jenny CT np nothing ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:12:30 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Paved Paradise Book In a message dated 7/16/1999 6:53:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pdcmusic@freeuk.com writes: << I recently saw an advert in a British magazine for a book called 'Paved Paradise'. The cover picture appears to be a drawing of Joni wearing a black Tina Turner-style wig. Does anyone on the list know anything about this? - >> This is a VERY CHEESY book in which the author "analyzes" each track on Joni's albums--some of the takes on the songs are really quite funny. SAVE YOUR MONEY! Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:19:23 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Crosby Tour (NJC) Peter Holmstedt wrote: > 8/27/99 Fri Chicago, IL Lincoln Park Zoo There's something touchingly appropriate about that old Leo (and party animal) playing in a zoo. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:59:22 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: UK JoniFesters unite Joniphiles - A mailing list has been set up for those of you interested in the UK JoniFest. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/lists for more details and to sign up. Les ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:11:04 -0700 From: Jenaya Dawe Subject: guitar stuff I've also been shopping for a guitar (I played a tiny bit in Jr. High, but am ready to committ myself to truly learning this time). I've checked out a bunch of Yamahas, and, at least the less expensive ones seem a bit tinny. I found an Ibanez that I really like, anyone else play one of these? jen... who found the guitar she *REALLY* wants, but doesn't have a spare grand layin around. :-) Jenaya H. Dawe PlayNetwork, Inc. 215 8th Ave North Seattle, WA 98109 206.624.2444 - vox 888.567.PLAY 206.624.2444 - fax http://www.playnetwork.com "The conformity factory is now closed!" ~Homer Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:07:46 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: NJC -Thanks! Thank you to everyone who educated me about Joni's VG8 :-) Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:59:49 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: New midi file Thanks to fellow Mitchellidian, Gerald Hillman, I have a new midi file on my midi page - Not to Blame. http://www.total.net/~slarty/midi.htm Also accessible through Wally's site at http://www.jonimitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:48:36 -0600 From: Allison Fernley Subject: Re: Guitar Advice - NJC I'm personally addicted to Taylor guitars right now, though they certainly are not inexpensive. However, I did just purchase the Baby Taylor for travel purposes, for under $300. It sounds fabulous for an inexpensive small-size, and the Taylor dealer who sold it to me told me that some even play it on stage plugged in. It has the advantage of great action--I think most the factory setups for Taylors are prettly low action, making it more attractive to the beginner. I did recently help a friend purchase a guitar for her daughter who was starting out. She didn't want to go over $250, and we found her a quite nice Ibanez for that price, good action and a solid top. Also a slightly smaller body which is nice if you are a short smallish type like me. On a couple of different notes: Loved Mark's notion of TTT as a Joni's paean to the felines, LOL. Happy Anniversary to Colin, and thanks for his wise post about God as unconditional love. Allison F. (the anagrams site gave me these: alien fry on sell, and sly lonelier fan) NP: DED ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:43:09 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Beatles/Mia (NJC) Steve emerged from the garage to ask: > My friend Irish Philip wrote: > > >Even Sgt Pepper had a dud track. > > It did? Which one? > It was Within You Without You and damn hard to skip it was too because as we 60's kids recall they left no gaps between tracks on that LP. I guess this means that Harrison was the first pop star to do world music, not Joni. I'd try Dec '70 for that old lady of the year award. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:35:10 -0400 (EDT) From: pam tompkins Subject: Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again What a waste of time and energy this entire stream has been. I read my emails backwards, just to be different...and who gives a )(*&@#$) about punctuation. How snobby do you really have to be to live? - --- Bounced Message wrote: > Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 18:11:49 +0100 > From: Martin Giles > > shawn streamed... > people who think she > can do no wrong well she like any artist has put out > her share of stink > bombs. To me its so personal how can you guys just > talk and talk take > it for what it is or means to you. Dont worship the > ground she walks > on, strive to be a light as bright as her. Remember > every picture has > its shadows.> > > but i do worship her i'm nothing without her i am > just a shadow and she > is the light i am only a bit of crumbled tape > accidentally stuck to the > back of the painting of her life i kiss the ground > she walks on or i > would if she came over to the uk again i live her > music breath her music > she is turbulent indigo i am a thousand times washed > beige i am not > worthy to even listen to her music i feel guilty > every time i hear her > songs i am only a soon to be mopped up muddy smudge > in a cold water rest > room once brifly visited by > her.....ggllmmmnnoooogrphfff > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:49:53 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Worthy Project NJC Dear Folks: MPI Media Group (where I work) and the DuSable Museum of African American History (here in Chicago) have teamed up to produce a show to be released at the beginning of next year (tentatively) titled "The 100 Most Influential African-Americans of the 20th Century". The show is pretty much my baby--it is my idea and after the pitch here at MPI, I pitched it to DuSable who loved the idea--so I would really like to make it work. We are taking nominations from everyone for the 100 persons and you can vote at http://www.dusablemuseum.org/100mostinfluential/ on the DuSable Museum Website. Please do and pass the information on to your friends. The completed show will look at the 100 people in 5 one hour shows which, we hope, will be completed by February, 2000. Let me know if you have any questions. Howard M "Anytime you have the opportunity to accomplish something for somebody who comes behind you and you don't do it, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:25:39 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Guitars (SJC) In a message dated 16/07/99 14:41:43 GMT Daylight Time, JaneneO@mji.com writes: << BTW, my sister-in-law is from the Midlands and now lives in Surrey with my brother but when I come over in the fall, I'd love to meet some of you and have a pint or two! Take care all. Janene >> I hope so, Janene - and indeed welcome to the list (if you're new) or congratulations (if you've just de-lurked). Are your bro and sis-in-law Joni fans too? Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:25:38 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Guitar advice NJC In a message dated 16/07/99 12:06:31 GMT Daylight Time, phy6pgk@phys-irc.novell.leeds.ac.uk writes: << Krys wrote: > I've got a similar dilemma, can't play a note but have a guitar that's > been gathering dust for 4 years. I've got a teach yourself book but got > stuck because I don't know how to tune the thing. > > Does anyone recommend those electronic tuner things? Would they help a > total amateur like me? > >> Maybe the answer is to wait for the weekend at Colin's - there will be loads of good players who'll be able to give you some tips - even I will feel relatively proficient if you really are a complete amateur! Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:25:40 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Gorsky & the moon In a message dated 16/07/99 15:04:29 GMT Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << Since you mention moon-landings and so on, there is a Joni tie-in. She makes many references in her music to the moon. >> Indeed she does, my favourite one being in "Refuge of the Roads", the most brilliant moon/June rhyme EVER! In a highway service station Over the month of June Was a photograph of the earth Taken coming back from the moon Second best for me would be Prince's Sign O' the Times: Little sister killed her baby 'cos she couldn't afford to feed her Yet we're sending people to the moon September my cousin tried reefer for the very first time Now he's doing horse - it's June Azeem in London np: Suzanne Vega's first, on vinyl! I really felt like playing a record, and it sounds great! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 11:33:27 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: A Wizard A true Star??? Jerry wrote: "np: Joni with Todd Rundgren" Jerry, Joni with Todd Jerry, Joni? Huh have I been asleep? What is that? Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 00:40:21 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: NJC punctuation (was dog eat dog, and '80s joni again) pam tompkins wrote: > > What a waste of time and energy this entire stream has been. I read my > emails backwards, just to be different...and who gives a )(*&@#$) about > punctuation. How snobby do you really have to be to live? With all due respect, I think one of the main "objections" to shawn's post was the tone and brash use of language. Lack of punctuation isn't such an issue if the post itself is not so confontational, I think. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:39:25 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Guitar Advice - NJC Hi Allison, nice to see you here again. You wrote: > I'm personally addicted to Taylor guitars right now, though they certainly are not inexpensive. >However, I did just purchase the Baby Taylor for travel purposes, for under $300. Right on! I did a gushing plug here for the little Baby Taylor last year and know of at least two other jmdl'ers who have gone and bought them, too. Think I paid around $250 for mine and am still madly in love with it. I sure wish it had been my first guitar instead of the abysmal and cheap Silvertone I started on as a kid! The Baby Taylor is fantastic and very easy to play and sounds gorgeous and bright. The Taylor guitars are regarded by many to be the "Martins" of the '90s. The guy who sold it to me also said that many professionals use the Baby for gigs. I considered the less expensive "Baby" Ibanez at the same time but felt the better qualities (fine, hand-made construction and full-sized sound) found in the Taylor was well worth the extra cost. I've always felt that the better the guitar, the more inspired one is to learn and play it. It's worth the investment to get the one you really love and the price on this one is not too out of reach for most people. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:07:00 -0700 (PDT) From: davidmarine1@webtv.net (David Marine) Subject: NJC -- Jussi -- NJC Jussi Pukkila please contact me privately. My apologies to the list. David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:08:50 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: A Wizard A true Star??? In a message dated 7/16/99 6:04:45 PM Central Daylight Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << Jerry, Joni with Todd Jerry, Joni? Huh have I been asleep? What is that? >> I assumed it was the TT interview "The Difference"... Bob NP: ZZ Top, "Old Man" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:16:45 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC punctuation When I followed the rules of standard written English and distinguished between frequently misused words, I was accused of being a member of the grammar police. Now that I've gone all folksy and zero capitals a la cummings, punctuation and syntactic variety are back. We need a JMDL Manual of Usage and we need it NOW! WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:24:20 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: VG-8 and Parker Guitars Hello Listers and VG-8 Enthusiasts in particular, I had a wonderful and long conversation with the man behind the Parker Guitar, Ken Parker. It turns out that he is a Joni fan and his place is very near by Topsfield, Ma. and Joni Fest 99. I called him because I had been talking to their A/R guy about getting one for myself, but I have been waiting for them to do one with the Roland GK-2 pick-up installed in the Concert Fly guitar. As it turns out, they are still procrastinating about doing that because obviously it will cost alot of money to do the project for a market that is just NOT very big. One big Boo-Hoo! I would like to know how many people on the list a) own a VG-8 system, b) what kind of guitar you have the pick up mounted on, and c) would be interested in a Parker with a GK system built in??? I really enjoyed my talk with him and hope to be able to meet him in person and get to know him a little more. He told me how much he appreciated Walecki getting him in touch with Joan and how deeply he feels about the association, her music, and all. I told him about the list and the page and he was very interested about it and I think he may join our happy group (He could be reading this right now). I am planning to get in touch with them before Joni fest and see if it would be possible to go tour the factory. I would love that. He also told me that he has another guitar ready for Joni and he has made some improvements for her. Her response was she couldn't imagine what he could do to it to make it any better. I'd love to check that one out, I just love the way their guitars play and feel and through my VG system, I can imagine how much time I would spend right here in the studio. Right now I am considering just purchasing the Concert Fly (maybe with some custom finish with Joni art on it or something) and adapting the pick up on myself. I have some ideas of how to mount the big ugly Roland volume wart on the strap instead of the guitar. Sorry for the long post, but I thought many of you VG types would find this interesting. Peace, Michael (praying everyone will get a VG-8 for Christmas this year and Parker will develop the ConcertListFly Guitar exclusively built for JMDL folks) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:41:20 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: looking for mercy street...(NJC, and long...) hello to all... oh boy. gonna regret this. not having a good day, and here i am, about to share it all with you. i wouldn't normally do this, i tell myself. and it is never too good an idea to do something you would not normally due, at least not without some serious reflection, but here i am. tomorrow when i realize how i have revealed a side of myself i normally keep under wraps (the self pitying, pathetic side) i will have to crawl in a hole and stay there. but i am feeling wretched and weak and depressed and desolate. the friend i normally go to when i have these moments is in london, and robert is awol, so here i am. this thing - this fucking thing that has invaded our lives and swallowed them whole is just so hard! judy had a seizure recently, out of the blue, (which my 15 year old daughter walked in on. horrible, horrible) and a night in the emergency room did not conclusively explain why, so they scheduled an emergency MRI a few days later, and sure enough, there is a spot on the films that should not be there. could be a recurrence of the tumor, (after only 4 months since the surgery she underwent to remove it. they told us 1-3 years!!!! how could our luck be this bad?) or, it could be just a hot spot from the radiation. they will do another MRI in early august and see if the spot has changed shape or size. if it has, then the tumor is back and there is nothing much to be done about it. can't operate again. can't do the radiation again. chemo is not effective on people over the age of 45 (oh she's WAY older then i am listers...). so we wait. in the meantime they increased the dilantin to control the seizures, and judy is literally wiped out from the extra dosage. is it the drug? or am i watching her die? this woman who saved my life. literally. with whom i have lived for 18 years. who brought me back from some precipice. who put up with my 18 months of procrastinating and making excuses to remain right where i was, "living" on that edge. this was a long time ago. i met judy because we both worked in the same office. i was about 23 or 24. just out of college. the first time i had a job, a real job in my entire life. and she was 28 or 29. wellesley grad. durant scholar. smart as a whip and hip and funny. i, on the other hand, was a pretentious, empty suit. and i was married to someone else. but judy was just a woman at work. i had seen her one day reading a mystery and had concluded she was a light weight. then, shortly thereafter she was going on vacation and lamenting having to put her two cats in a kennel while she was away. and i volunteered to come over and feed them. we only lived a 10 minute subway ride apart from each other. i went home from work with her one night so she could show me where the cat food was and the litter and i could meet the beasts. and i walked into her apartment - and the walls were lined with books. not just any books. dickens. austen. george eliot. nabokov. the diaries of virginia woolf. the writings of emma goldman. biographies of trotsky. tolstoy. flaubert. goethe. i was floored!! who WAS this woman? what about the agatha christie, i thought? so we got to talking, and i suddenly heard her in a different way, saw her in a different light, as we sat in the shadows of those shelves. we talked about authors, and history, and i learned what she has spent the rest of my life showing me: that she was the smartest person i have ever known, and the finest human being. (which begs the question, what on earth was she doing with ME? but that's another post...) after a few glasses of wine, or maybe a joint (this was the seventies now...) i found myself telling her how my father had vanished from my life when i was 14 - went sailing, never to come back. and good god almighty, i was stunned and humiliated to find in the telling that my eyes were welling up! i tired to make light of the tears that had taken me so by surprise, but she saw that i was still in pain over this catastrophic event in my childhood and came over to where i was sitting. she told me how, when she was 13, her mother died or a brain tumor and that not a day had passed that she did not feel deprived. and then she was blinking back tears of her own. so there we sat, two damaged adults, suddenly exposing this hurt we harbored and we were bonded together for, as it turned out, the rest of our lives. we still had miles to go before we ended up together, but i think, after that evening, it was a done deal. and now, this horror that divided our childhoods and left so many scars has come back to visit us again, and our own children. every thing we fear and every thing we dread, knowing the loss that awaits our daughters. "every night we staunch a wound that ever bleeds afresh..." but there is nothing, simply nothing that can be done. i have to watch this woman who has always taken care of me and the girls, who showed me a door i might pass through and enter the tangled garden of all the years that followed - i have to watch her die, it seems. as do my babies. i am desolate. i have no idea, no idea at all, how to do it. except, i guess, one minute at a time. if i try and consider any more than that i get a little panicky. i get these bizarre dreams - like standing at the window of my house, watching a torrent of rain fall, when the house suddenly lurches and i am amazed to see the entire foundation wash out from under me and into the street, where it is swept away. i grab onto the window sash and try to keep from falling as the floor and walls buck and heave. don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out huh? my subconscious could use a lesson in subtelty. speaking of dreams. last night i dreamt that my dog was hit by a car. i don't own a dog, but i did in this dream. he was laying in the middle of the road and i knew that he was dead, but none of the traffic would stop to allow me to get his body. and i knelt down on the shoulder of the street and laid my head on my knees and started to sob. these huge, wrenching sobs. and a friend of mine, a dear friend from THIS LIST as a matter of fact, approached me. and he sat beside me and stroked my hair while i choked and gasped. it was oddly cathartic. and the sense of catharsis actually persisted, even after i awoke with the alarm and felt, in some bizarre way, cleansed. it was not until i was in the shower that i remembered the dream and suddenly understood why i felt a tiny bit lighter - less burdened. we find what we need, if we let ourselves, i guess. i apologize for sending such a personal post to such a public place. i am sure reading it must have made many of you uncomfortable. if so, forgive me and use the delete key. i will be fine (provided i don't die from embarrassment when i realize what i have done...) - this too shall pass. but its hard sometimes. thanks for listening. and to the many of you who have been so supportive and so solicitous of me...i will never forget. and never be able to adequately tell you how much it meant. i will be in touch. and the next time, i promise you, in a better mood. forgive the intrusion. bless you all. love, ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:58:18 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: NJC punctuation Wally Kairuz wrote: > We need a JMDL Manual > of Usage and we need it NOW! > If we would say it or write to Joni, it is good. If not, no. Or: if it is an honest communication, we leave each person to that person's own style for Joni has been known to vary her style through the years but always remain honest. (the Rev) Vince, pontificating once again ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:07:27 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: looking for mercy street...(NJC, and long...) If there were any words that I had to make that go away, for God's sake I would say them. But there are no words that I have that are magical incantations. You are blessed for sharing yourself and your pain so openly with us. We are blessed by having the privilege to call upon our God - as we each understand God to be or for those who do not believe in God to call upon that strength which is greater than any human individual - and to reach out in love, care, and concern for you and your beloved Judy. Know that in many parts of the world, those of the JMDL are with you and Judy. Keep talking to us... it is not an intrusion for you to share your life and struggles for that is far more real than anything else we can say on here. In love, I extend my care for you and Judy and your family. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:45:06 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: VG-8 and Parker Guitars I don't have one, but maybe he can give a few away to the transcribers on this list! :O (After all the work we've done!!!!!!) At 8:24 PM -0500 7/16/99, Michael Paz wrote: >I would like to know how many people on the list a) own a VG-8 >system, b) what kind of guitar you have the pick up mounted on, and c) >would be interested in a Parker with a GK system built in??? ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:56:37 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Guitar Advice - NJC In a message dated 7/16/99 3:46:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, FernleAl@slcc.edu writes: << I'm personally addicted to Taylor guitars right now >> I bought my first Taylor about a year ago and am madly in love with it, too. After Kakki raved about her Baby T, I bought one for my daughter who is just learning and she is wild about it. But I still have a special place in my heart for my old Marty. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:19:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: A Joni Moment today Joni moments tend to occur when least we expect them, don’t they? Today, while being driven all over the Arizona desert by an associate, we had a hotel to visit in Lake Havasu City. As we drove across the original London Bridge which is now located there, Joni’s rendition of her London Bridge Song popped into my head. It is among those unreleased goodies from the 60’s performances at the Second Fret in my hometown of Philadelphia. “London Bridge is falling up Say the tea leaves in my cup...” Take care everyone, Brian, headed back to NJ from a trip that included 5 of the best days and nights of my whole life :-)) np: the non-stop chatter at Gate B13 in the Phoenix airport === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 23:20:37 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: looking for mercy street...(NJC, and long...) Dear Ric, I sure wish I knew what words I could share to help you through this hell. But the first thing that comes to my mind is my wanting to thank you- thank you for telling us about your love, your history together, your fears. That took a lot of guts. What you are living through right now is about the hardest thing anyone can possibly face. But you're doing it. And you're doing it with love and honor. It's damn ok to share your fears and your sadness. Let this be a way to help you grieve. Remember one thing. As you feel frightened and weak, realize that you are indeed quite strong. Others in your shoes may not have been able to do what you are doing- being there for your wife and kids. No more apologies to the list. Just write when you need to. I, for one, will be listening. Hugs to you and yours, Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:48:47 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: looking for mercy street...(NJC, and long...) Terry wrote so beautifully: > Remember one thing. As you feel frightened and weak, realize that you are > indeed quite strong. Others in your shoes may not have been able to do what > you are doing- being there for your wife and kids. No more apologies to the > list. Just write when you need to. I, for one, will be listening. I will, too, Ric. What you shared brought me to tears - because of the depth of your love. You are stronger than you know. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:50:27 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: The Hinton Biog. Many thanks to Deb Messling and Paul I. for responding to my inquiry about the Hinton biography. I'm grateful for your thoughts. Yes, his total reliance on secondary sources and his failure to say why he didn’t (apparently) seek the involvement of Joni herself or those privately and professionally close to her, is disappointing. (Or, did she refuse involvement?) And, I agree that, for those who are well read in the magazine literature, the book would probably be lacking in new insights. However, does this necessarily make the biography a ‘write-off’? Don’t you think that, for anyone new to JM or wanting a concise overview of her life and music, the book serves a useful purpose? Let’s face it, there is nothing else readily available. For new insights, I guess we will have to wait for the autobiography. As for Hinton’s subjective and sometimes unusual ('goofy'- great word) reflections on Joni’s songs - they are just that, subjective opinions that can be accepted or rejected! Music criticism is full of these. I’m actually quite enjoying them, even while I’m disagreeing! And, I like the way he draws parallels with and makes comparisons to the work of other musicians and writers. Again, I don’t always agree with him but I enjoy the ‘thought roads’ they sometimes lead me down. Oh well, I suppose I must be in the minority on this! John. PS. Jim H., I haven't come to the part yet where Joni is "celabate (sic) since 1967" (Thurs. 15 July, Digest 311). I'll look out for that one! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #312 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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