From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #311
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
Precedence: bulk


JMDL Digest           Friday, July 16 1999           Volume 04 : Number 311



The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall!
For information: send a message to <info-laborday@jmdl.com>
Join the mailing list at: <http://www.jmdl.com/lists>
-------
The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more.
-------
The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
==========

TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
  RE: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again                   [M.Russell@iaea.org]
  Re: Gay?                          [Krys & Geoff <us@moonviews.demon.co.uk>]
  Re: UK JMDL meeting               [Krys & Geoff <us@moonviews.demon.co.uk>]
  Re: Guitar advice NJC             [Krys & Geoff <us@moonviews.demon.co.uk>]
  RE: NJC Country Life!        ["Wally Kairuz" <wallykai@interserver.com.ar>]
  Joni's VG8                                [Howard Wright <haw@ph.ed.ac.uk>]
  taming the tiger                        [Deb Messling <messling@enter.net>]
  Re: taming the tiger           [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com]
  Re: Hello, I'm new.            [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com]
  Re: "And the nominations are..." (NJC)  [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluord]
  Re: Guitar advice NJC                                  [TerryM2442@aol.com]
  Re: Never as Good as the First Time (apologies to Sade)  [Jerry Notaro <no]
  Re: god stuff (NJC)                ["Reuben Bell3" <RPBell3@newchurch.edu>]
  Re: The dogging of Dog Eat Dog     ["Reuben Bell3" <RPBell3@newchurch.edu>]
  Re: Gay? (NJC)                             [Don Rowe <dgrowe227@yahoo.com>]
  Re: stinkbombs (NJC)                       [Don Rowe <dgrowe227@yahoo.com>]
  Re: stinkbombs (NJC)                    ["Ken (Slarty)" <slarty@total.net>]
  Re: "And the nominations are..." (NJC)    [Heather Galli <Gallih@ccsu.edu>]
  Source for Joni sheet music               [Heather Galli <Gallih@ccsu.edu>]
  RE: dog eat dog, larry (jc)    [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com]
  Does DED stink?                    ["Catherine McKay" <cateri@hotmail.com>]
  NJC Seagull Guitar                         [Bounced Message <les@jmdl.com>]
  NJC religion                               [Bounced Message <les@jmdl.com>]
  Re: Guitar advice NJC                 [jan gyn <jgyn@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us>]
  "Good Luck Mr Gorsky" (NJC)           ["Paul Castle" <pdcmusic@freeuk.com>]
  New Balls Please! (NJC)               ["Paul Castle" <pdcmusic@freeuk.com>]
  Re: NJC Seagull Guitar              ["Lisa Peakes" <lpeakes@email.msn.com>]
  Re: New Balls Please! (NJC)                    [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
  Re: NJC Seagull Guitar  ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" <notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.e]
  Today in Joni History - July 16      [Today in Joni History <les@jmdl.com>]
  Re: NJC Seagull Guitar                  ["Ken (Slarty)" <slarty@total.net>]
  Re: NJC Seagull Guitar                 [Randy Remote <guitarzan@saber.net>]
  Re: Guitar advice NJC                  [Randy Remote <guitarzan@saber.net>]
  Re: stinkbombs (NJC)                             ["Kakki" <kakkib@att.net>]
  Re: Guitar advice NJC         [Jerry Notaro <notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu>]
  Siquomb                                         ["Tube" <ramnix@pronet.it>]
  That "Bad" Hinton Book <NJC>         ["Jim L'Hommedieu" <jlamadoo@one.net>]
  FW: dog eat dog, larry (jc)          ["patrick leader" <trxschwa@bway.net>]
  Taming the Tiger - Joni's version of 'Cats'?  ["Mark or Travis" <mark-n-tr]
  Joni's Standard's "To Go"                      [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)]
  re:yamaha guitars                                 [waytoblu@mindspring.com]
  Re: God Stuff (NJC)                                         [FMYFL@aol.com]
  Re: Joni's Standard's "To Go"                            [RMuRocks@aol.com]
  Re: FW: dog eat dog, larry (jc)                          [RMuRocks@aol.com]
  Re: Joni's Standard's "To Go"                  [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)]
  No color, no contrast                      [Bounced Message <les@jmdl.com>]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:03:20 +0200
From: M.Russell@iaea.org
Subject: RE: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again

Kakki wrote:

> > but, except for the "get a life" part, I can easily imagine Herself as
> > having written it.
> 
> I don't know, Marian - after I re-read it a few times, I cannot imagine
> Joni
> ever admitting to any "stinkbombs", plus the "talk, talk" thing - if She
> were posting to the list, we'd have veritable reams of Her great chatter
> and
> stories pushing out 20 digests a day ;-)
> 
Yeah - you're probably right, especially about the "stinkbombs" part - I
can't imagine Her saying that either.

There is much truth in the "strive to be a light as bright as her" part,
though.  I feel like her talent is so exceptional - so beyond the norm and I
find myself at times almost overwhelmed when thinking about her
artistic/musical abilities - frozen - like "why should I even try?".   Joni
is just so good.  She shows us what is possible for a human being and I
think she would want us to strive for our own excellence in our own
particular gifts, whatever they might be.

Marian
Vienna

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:08:48 +0100
From: Krys & Geoff <us@moonviews.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Gay?

In message , Martin Giles <mlg@ukonline.co.uk> writes
>Any straight Joni fans on the list?
>
>Martin.
>
Brilliant!  Turning the mirror around.  I love it!

Mark me down as a person.  :)

Love and peace,
Krys XXX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:08:28 +0100
From: Krys & Geoff <us@moonviews.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: UK JMDL meeting

In message , Howard Wright <haw@ph.ed.ac.uk> writes
>Put me down as a definite maybe ;-)
>A weekend would definitely suit me better. I'd be happy to bring a guitar
>to strum and a bottle of malt whisky to share.

I can bring a guitar but can't play yet!  Though I do sing.
>
>Not sure how far it is from Worcester to Colin's place, but I think it
>should be easy enough by train. 

Welcome to the Midlands!  Worcester to March ought to be fairly easy by
train I think.  Have a save and happy move.

Love and peace,
Krys XXXX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:09:26 +0100
From: Krys & Geoff <us@moonviews.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Guitar advice NJC

In message , Hejira <HEJIRA28@email.msn.com> writes
>I want to buy an Acoustic Guitar and teach myself how to play but don't know
>the first thing about what to buy or where to start.
>Can anyone help.
>Thanks
>Kevin
>(HEJIRA28@MSN.COM)
>
Hi Kev!!!  

I've got a similar dilemma, can't play a note but have a guitar that's
been gathering dust for 4 years.  I've got a teach yourself book but got
stuck because I don't know how to tune the thing.

Does anyone recommend those electronic tuner things?  Would they help a
total amateur like me?

Love and peace,
Krys XXXXXXXX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 05:23:10 -0300
From: "Wally Kairuz" <wallykai@interserver.com.ar>
Subject: RE: NJC Country Life!

oh colin! poor thing! i've been puking some too lately because of a very
stubborn virus that won't go away.
anyway, we're much better off than the homeless couple they picked up today
morning in the park near my house. they drank too much, they fell asleep and
they froze to death. this is so common in winter here. at least in paris
they leave the subway stations open so that the homeless can take refuge
during winter nights. we've been having a mix of ice and rain for five days
now. rather than organize shelters, the city government prefers to think
it's inappropriate to be poor in this weather.
wallyk

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:06:33 +0100 (BST)
From: Howard Wright <haw@ph.ed.ac.uk>
Subject: Joni's VG8

From: Heather Galli <Gallih@ccsu.edu>

>Quite a while back, I remember reading
>in a post that when Joni played acoustic guitar her open tunings required
>some of the strings to be quite loose.  With the VG8 this is not
>necessary because the open tuning is programmed in, no?  So, my question
>is ......Did Joni have to adjust to the different tension on the strings
>of the VG8 ?

Good question! I don't think this has come up before ...

You're right - there will be a difference in string tensions when playing
the open tunings on an acoustic and on the VG8. The more "extreme" the
tuning, the greater the difference in string tensions. 

I don't know if much adjustment of technique is needed however. For the
fretting hand, chords may be slightly more/less hard to press down on the
neck, but this change must be pretty subliminal. It's more likely to
affect the strumming hand - they have to adjust to playing somewhat
"tighter" or "looser" strings.

On the other hand, Joni has a long experience of playing acoustics in open
tunings, and different guitars give quite a different feel to the
strumming hand, making the strings feel a little tighter or looser. If
she's used to adapting to different acoustics, it's probably not too
different when she plays the VG8.

Joni has also used electric guitars in open tunings a fair bit, and would
definitely have to adapt for this too, so maybe the VG8 just feels like a
slightly different electric guitar? 

Howard

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 06:43:59 -0400
From: Deb Messling <messling@enter.net>
Subject: taming the tiger

Does the phrase "Taming the Tiger" have any Buddhist significance?  I came
across this book:

Taming the Tiger: Tibetan Teachings on Right Conduct, Mindfullness and
Universal Compassion, by Akong Rinpoche

And what of "The Wizard of Is?"  (One of Joni's unrecorded songs).  I came
across this phrase in connection with some sort of Zen mysticism, but the
precise connection escapes me. 







Deb Messling
messling@enter.net
http://www.enter.net/~messling/

~there are only three kinds of people:
those who can count, and those who can't.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 07:25:13 -0400
From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re: taming the tiger

       <<And what of "The Wizard of Is?"  (One of Joni's unrecorded
       songs).  I came across this phrase in connection with some sort
       of Zen mysticism, but the precise connection escapes me.>>

       Pat Henry shared a while back that it was a reference to
       Gandalf from Tolkien's Ring Trilogy.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 07:42:28 -0400
From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re: Hello, I'm new.

       <<I am new to the list, although a longtime admirer of Joni's
       work. I stumbled upon it through one of those happy web surfing
       accidents. I
       am enjoying the intelligent discourse. I suppose it says a lot
       for
       Ms. M that her discussion list would be populated with such
       thoughtful and interesting people.>>

       Welcome Russ! I thought you were going to bust into parody with
        your subject line...
       like Todd Rundgren singing....

       Hello, I'm new
       Been lovin' Joni for a long long time... :~)

       <<I am intrigued by the mention of "Tape Trees." Like some of
       you I was rather disappointed that the ambitious box set that
       we originally hoped for from Joni turned into "Hits" and
       "Misses." I would love to hear some of her rarer recordings.

       Can someone explain to me if, and how, I might partake of the
       tree?
       (Unless of course, it is forbidden -- I understand some trees
       are
       just *that way*.)>>

       But not these trees, Russ! They bear fruit that ALL can share!
       :~) And not a rotten apple
       in the bunch...

       Bob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:07:21 -0400
From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re: "And the nominations are..." (NJC)

        <<Are you guys setting up a lawn court?  Now I have to bring a
       racket along with my guitar and other stuff?>>

       I imagine we can find a court somewhere...we might have to
       force some Bostonian country clubbers off of one, but we'll
       work something out.

       <<  Next thing you know a golfing green will be constructed in
       Ashara's back yard and you'll be telling us to bring our
       clubs>>

       Now you're talking! A veritable Joni Decathlon! Croquet? Jarts?
       :~)

       Bob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:32:41 EDT
From: TerryM2442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Guitar advice NJC

In a message dated 7/15/99 4:13:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
us@moonviews.demon.co.uk writes:

<< Does anyone recommend those electronic tuner things?  Would they help a
 total amateur like me? >>

 I would head out to the closest music store and ask someone to show you 
first. Once you get the hang of it, then the electronic tuners can be great. 
If you don't have a piano to help guide you (with time, you'll know how 
high/low to tune those E notes), you might consider purchasing a pitch pipe.
It is SO much easier to learn if someone shows you how.
Good luck!

Terry

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:27:21 -0400
From: Jerry Notaro <notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu>
Subject: Re: Never as Good as the First Time (apologies to Sade)

Joseph Palis wrote:

> . I likened her to Ella Fitzgerald where a
> different setting is sure to bring out an aspect of her we haven't known
> yet.

A comparison which would thrill Joni, I'm sure.

> She belongs to the exalted level of musicians/artists where I don't
> quite care what her next album's she's like as I am sure that anything
> about her is always worth listening

How true!

> Joseph
> (whose favorite Joni album is HOSL)

A great choice. Certainly in my top 5.

Jerry

np: JM - Eastern Rain

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:32:34 -0400
From: "Reuben Bell3" <RPBell3@newchurch.edu>
Subject: Re: god stuff (NJC)

>>> <Clancyhart@aol.com> 07/14 9:25 PM >>>
i've been reading the religion thread with mixed feelings.  it always hurts 
me to see anger and judgment expressed on the list--it is so obvious to me 
that the people here are so spiritual, so full of "the flowers of deep 
feelings...", and i have learned so much from this unique blend of 
personalities. it never ceases to amaze me...but i also 
remind them that they know as much about god as i do. or as anyone does.<<<

I like your point of view on this one.  I a member of a very philosophical/introspective church organization that my parents found when I was a teenager.  It is an extremely conservative organization, and my dad ended up changing careers and left the medical field and became a mininister in this church.  Some of the choices I have made in my life go against everything the *organization* stands for, but I do not feel any less a part of the *church*...as I get older, I realize more and more that one has very little to do with the other.  I have always felt that God is fairly uninterested in the petty bickering and finger pointing that we do within our churches (ie: lifestyles, politics, etc.) than he is in how you live your life.  

My 2 cents :)

Reuben (who is pretty sure that God likes me just fine, although not everyone would agree. :) )

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:36:55 -0400
From: "Reuben Bell3" <RPBell3@newchurch.edu>
Subject: Re: The dogging of Dog Eat Dog

>>> <MP123A321@aol.com> 07/14 10:06 PM >>>
All this unholy talk.......Dog Eat Dog

I dragged out my copy of DED. Wow ....I think I like Friction more than ever. 
This is not my favorite Joni release either, but far from a throw away. It 
sounds better than I recall.<<<

I love the DED album.  I do think that more than any of Joni's other albums, though, it sounds very dated at this point.  I think that a lot of artists that released albums during this period did incredible things that now sound somewhat dated...for good or for worse.  Joan Armatrading's "Secret Secrets" comes to mind as one that has held up pretty well.  

Reuben

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:48:10 +0000 (GMT)
From: Don Rowe <dgrowe227@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Gay? (NJC)

- --- catman <catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I'll stand up and be counted! (D. Rowe)
> 
> That was veeerry quick Don. What could your
> promptness mean? :-0
> 
I don't know ... maybe it means it didn't take long to
type!

Don Rowe
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:04:15 +0000 (GMT)
From: Don Rowe <dgrowe227@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: stinkbombs (NJC)

- --- Kakki <kakkib@att.net> wrote:
> David postulated:
> 
> > P.S. For that matter, Shawn can be a girl's name,
> as in Shawn Colvin.
> 
> I did have a fleeting thought of it being Shawn
> Colvin and speculated that
> perhaps her good friend and producer Don/Larry was
> calling in some of his
> soldiers ;-)
> 
Maybe ... maybe not.  I'm not telling.  But can you
figure out which of us is *really* Shawn Colvin?  I'll
give you a hint -- "bees make it." :-)

Larry K.
(alias Don Rowe) 

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:37:12 -0400
From: "Ken (Slarty)" <slarty@total.net>
Subject: Re: stinkbombs (NJC)

Would that be the ever elusive  B.Poop
I think the email was  imreallyshawncolvin@aol.com

Don Rowe wrote:

> --- Kakki <kakkib@att.net> wrote:
> > David postulated:
> >
> > > P.S. For that matter, Shawn can be a girl's name,
> > as in Shawn Colvin.
> >
> > I did have a fleeting thought of it being Shawn
> > Colvin and speculated that
> > perhaps her good friend and producer Don/Larry was
> > calling in some of his
> > soldiers ;-)
> >
> Maybe ... maybe not.  I'm not telling.  But can you
> figure out which of us is *really* Shawn Colvin?  I'll
> give you a hint -- "bees make it." :-)
>
> Larry K.
> (alias Don Rowe)
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:47:35 -0500
From: Heather Galli <Gallih@ccsu.edu>
Subject: Re: "And the nominations are..." (NJC)

>Bob wrote:
>
>> Hey, Kakki, start drinking some of that water! I've already challenged
>> Granny Heather to tennis @ Ashara's; all we need is a fourth and we can
>> play doubles! It's the Premier Joni Mitchell Invitational Tennis Tourney!
>
>What?!  Are you guys setting up a lawn court?  Now I have to bring a racket
>along with my guitar and other stuff?  Next thing you know a golfing green
>will be constructed in Ashara's back yard and you'll be telling us to bring
>our clubs. ;-D
>
Heck!  I done packed my bathing suit 'cause I thought me ol' pal Ashara was
gettin' herself a cement pond!

Granny

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 11:05:14 -0500
From: Heather Galli <Gallih@ccsu.edu>
Subject: Source for Joni sheet music

Hi!

When I visited Ottawa last year I picked up the DJRD music book and "Both
Sides Now" sheet music which were given away at Ashara's last year.  They
did have music books for either "Hits" and/or "Misses" too.  They may have
more.  If you'd like to inquire, I'm listing the addresses and phone
numbers below.

Granata Music

(2 locations)

175 Sparks Street
K1P 5B9

(613) 234-7666


1558 Merivale Rd.
K2G 3J9

(613) 727-0727


Good Luck!
Heather

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:52:09 -0400
From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com
Subject: RE: dog eat dog, larry (jc)

       Since you wanted to hear more:

       patrick said:

       <<i dutifully listened to ded yesterday, and there's much to
       love there. tax-free is a really beautiful melody, so
       surprising considering the subject.  i still love ethiopia and
       lucky girl to death.  and since the subject is klein, isn't his
       understated bass on ethiopia brilliant?>>

       I agree with all of this...Joni's voice is so carefree &
       playful on Lucky Girl, and so dark and brooding on Tax Free.
       DED is full of great songs and great moments. I don't dislike
       it totally, I just think there's some mis-steps, and we seem to
       agree on that as well.

       << but where does that leave 'good friends'?  that song looks
       good on paper and just sounds terrible on the album.>>

       And as you like Nothing Can Be Done, I like Good Friends.
       That's just personal taste. I like Michael McDonald on Steely
       Dan records, I liked SOME of his Doobie Bros. stuff, I even
       liked hearing him on "Ride Like The Wind" with Christopher
       Cross! His voice has a unique texture...BUT some of the
       instrumentation on the track leaves something to be desired,
       again, that's just my taste.

       patrick also didactically informs:

       <<that's called collaboration, and it's a critical component of
       an artistic life.>>

       Co-llab-o-ra-tion...thanks for teaching me this new word! :~D
       Mingus was also a collaboration, but I like it much more than
       DED because it feels truer to Joni's vision for the project.
       Maybe DED came out EXACTLY like she wanted, but after hearing
       the interviews it seemed to me that Larry took over in some
       ways and Joni compromised. (What was that brilliant statement
       Catherine made yesterday about compromise in a relationship...)

       <<by the way, nothing can be done (from nrh) is a duet with
       david baerwald.  and there's that duet on turbulent indigo, not
       even an original song.  it's decent, but not even close to the
       successful chalkmark duets.>>

       I wouldn't refer to David Baerwald's background vocals on NCBD
       or Seal's background vocal on How Do You Stop as "Duets",
       certainly not in the same way you hear Billy Idol, Willie
       Nelson, Lionel Ritchie, Don Henley, and KNOW that those guys
       are celebrities singing on the record. (Sidenote: Joni's
       contribution to Seal's "If I Could" was much more of a duet
       than his appearance, IMO.)

       And we can be thankful that Joni didn't do a duet with Kenny
       Rogers in the 80's, although she probably would've had a big
       hit with one, especially if it sounded as good as her duets
       with Johnny Cash...

       <<still not buying your viewpoint on this, dude.  willing to
       hear more, though.>>

       We don't have to always buy each other's viewpoints, but the
       discussion is truly wonderful...it's why I'm here! And frankly,
       the more I hear about what people groove the more I can
       appreciate it myself.


       Bob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:06:01 GMT
From: "Catherine McKay" <cateri@hotmail.com>
Subject: Does DED stink?

Loved your post!  Especially the stink bomb bit. My 8-year old would love 
it.  Anything related to bodily functions is fodder for him.  If they ever 
do a feature film of "The Simpsons" using real people, I've got the perfect 
Bart.

IMHO, even Joni's "worst" is better than most people's best.  I must admit 
DED isn't my favourite, but I still like it (haven't heard it in ages, of 
course, because it's the vinyl version, the old record player broke and I'm 
too broke to remedy that right now.)

C'mon now, is Jewel that bad? :)

cateri@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:16:59 -0600
From: Bounced Message <les@jmdl.com>
Subject: NJC Seagull Guitar

From: pattihaskins@mindspring.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 07:39:47 -0500

"I would also recommend Seagull guitars which
are handmade guitars from Canada, they have a beautiful sound, and are also
very affordable."

Victor

Go for the Seagull guitar. You won't be dissapointed.

Patti Haskins' totally biased opinion due to the fact that her husband is
the Seagull manufacturer's reprsentative in Texas and Oklahoma and lives
with tons of Seagull and Goding guitars and wouldn't have this here computer
if it wasn't for Seagull and Godin!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:15:28 -0600
From: Bounced Message <les@jmdl.com>
Subject: NJC religion

From: pattihaskins@mindspring.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:08:17 -0500

"....I think that only when that same
individual makes a conscious choice of a belief
system, that true tolerance becomes possible.

Don Rowe"

GO DON!
Patti here, shaking her head vigorously in agreement with every (don't
belong to no religion) bone in my body. Of course, I was raised Catholic
with a skew courtesy of my converted to Catholicism for marriage only
Serbian Orthodox father who never went to church. Whenever we asked him why
he didn't have to go to church with us every Sunday, he would say "God said
only bad people had to go to church and that good people got to stay home
and watch football." Eventually I outgrew Catholicism (but not the guilt)
and found true peace.

Patti Haskins
NP - the sound of the fan on my desk, Damn, its hot in Texas

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:19:24 -0700
From: jan gyn <jgyn@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Guitar advice NJC

At 08:32 AM 7/15/99 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 7/15/99 4:13:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>us@moonviews.demon.co.uk writes:
><< Does anyone recommend those electronic tuner things?  Would they help a
>total amateur like me? >>

Electronic tuners are great, but try using a tuning fork or pitch pipe.
Your ears will get used to hearing differences in vibration.
- -jan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:39:28 +0100
From: "Paul Castle" <pdcmusic@freeuk.com>
Subject: "Good Luck Mr Gorsky" (NJC)

Just read this great story which I had to pass on -

When Apollo Mission Astronaut Neil Armstrong first walked on the moon, he
not only gave his famous "one small step for man, one giant leap for
mankind" statement but followed it by several remarks, usual com traffic
between him, the other astronauts and Mission Control.  Just before he
re-entered the lander, however, he made the enigmatic remark
"Good luck Mr. Gorsky."

Many people at NASA thought it was a casual remark concerning some rival
Soviet Cosmonaut. However, upon checking, there was no Gorsky in either the
Russian or American space programs. Over the years many people questioned
Armstrong as to what the "Good luck Mr. Gorsky" statement meant, but
Armstrong always just smiled.

On July 5, 1995 in Tampa Bay FL, while answering questions following a
speech, a reporter brought up the 26 year old question to Armstrong. This
time he finally responded. Mr. Gorsky had finally died and so Neil Armstrong
felt he could answer the question.

When he was a kid, he was playing baseball with a friend in the backyard.
His friend hit a fly ball, which landed in the front of his neighbor's
bedroom windows. His neighbors were Mr. & Mrs. Gorsky. As he leaned down to
pick up the ball, young Armstrong heard Mrs.Gorsky shouting at Mr. Gorsky.
"Sex! You want sex?! You'll get sex when the kid next door walks on the
moon!"

True story  (it says here).


PaulC

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:46:39 +0100
From: "Paul Castle" <pdcmusic@freeuk.com>
Subject: New Balls Please! (NJC)

Kakki said:

> Next thing you know a golfing green will be constructed in Ashara's back
yard and you'll be telling us to bring our clubs. ;-D  >

If you take your 'woods' you can play 'Tyger Bones' on the 'Little Green'

Bubum-tish!
PaulC

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:21:35 -0400
From: "Lisa Peakes" <lpeakes@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: NJC Seagull Guitar

> "I would also recommend Seagull guitars which
> are ......also
> very affordable."
>
Not to be sour, but my ex-husband - a luthier who's got tons of experience
with guitars - including years of retail sales - always said they were junk.
His competition sold 'em, and they had a smashed up one called a "Dead
Seagull" on display - the manufacturer had put something (tuners?) on
backwards - seems like it's not for nothing that they're 'affordable'. I
never thought it was very sporting of his boss to put that guitar out there
like that. What's important is that the buyer practise! Go to your room and
practise, practise - so...get that Seagull - get anything, but use it!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:36:12 -0400
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re: New Balls Please! (NJC)

Paul punned:

<<If you take your 'woods' you can play 'Tyger Bones' on the 'Little
Green'>>

And when we blow a shot we'll hear the hissing of summer lawns...?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:46:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" <notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu>
Subject: Re: NJC Seagull Guitar

Don't know much about Seagull Guitars (sounds like a JT song), but when I
bought my first good, inexpensive guitar I bought a Yamaha. It was $75 and
I made payments. Even though that was 28 years ago, and I can well afford
to replace it, it is still the one I love and use. And it sounds great,
even with all the crazy Joni tunings I've had it in.

Jerry

On Thu, 15 Jul 1999, Lisa Peakes wrote:

> 
> 
> > "I would also recommend Seagull guitars which
> > are ......also
> > very affordable."
> >
> Not to be sour, but my ex-husband - a luthier who's got tons of experience
> with guitars - including years of retail sales - always said they were junk.
> His competition sold 'em, and they had a smashed up one called a "Dead

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:46:00 -0600
From: Today in Joni History <les@jmdl.com>
Subject: Today in Joni History - July 16

1983: Joni performs at the Garden State Arts Center in New Jersey.  Joni's 
setlist that day was Coyote, Free Man in Paris, Cotton Avenue, Edith and 
the Kingpin, You Turn Me On I'm a Radio, Flat Tires, Song to Sharon, God 
Must be a Boogie Man, For Free, Big Yellow Taxi, A Case of You, Wild Things 
Run Fast, Sweet Bird of Youth, Banquet, Raised on Robbery, Refuge of the 
Roads, You're So Square, Solid Love, Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody,  Help 
Me, Love, Heard it Through the Grapevine, and Woodstock.

Read a review of this event at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/NY83.html
- --------
Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to
JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list.
- -------- 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:55:59 -0400
From: "Ken (Slarty)" <slarty@total.net>
Subject: Re: NJC Seagull Guitar

I'll also vouch for Yahmaha's quality. Mine's about 22 years old, has great sound
and is also is being constantly played by martians (what Crosby said of his guitar

after Joni put it in one of her tunnings) without damaging the neck. I wasn't as
lucky as Jerry, though. I spent $350 on mine.
KS

"Gerald Notaro (LIB)" wrote:

> Don't know much about Seagull Guitars (sounds like a JT song), but when I
> bought my first good, inexpensive guitar I bought a Yamaha. It was $75 and
> I made payments. Even though that was 28 years ago, and I can well afford
> to replace it, it is still the one I love and use. And it sounds great,
> even with all the crazy Joni tunings I've had it in.
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:14:45 -0700
From: Randy Remote <guitarzan@saber.net>
Subject: Re: NJC Seagull Guitar

> I'll also vouch for Yahmaha's quality. Mine's about 22 years old, has great sound
> and is also is being constantly played by martians (what Crosby said of his guitar
>
> after Joni put it in one of her tunnings)

That was James Taylor
RR for jmdl police

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:20:17 -0700
From: Randy Remote <guitarzan@saber.net>
Subject: Re: Guitar advice NJC

Krys & Geoff wrote:

> Does anyone recommend those electronic tuner things?  Would they help a
> total amateur like me?

I would have to say no.  Electronic tuners are great if you are
already close to being in tune, for example, if your E string is
an E flat or an F.  Otherwise they can be pretty squirrelly.  I
think the old 'fret the low E on the 5th fret and match the A
string (next string) to it' is better for a beginner.  If you have
trouble doing that, a few beginning lessons will help you get
underway.
RR

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:13:25 -0700
From: "Kakki" <kakkib@att.net>
Subject: Re: stinkbombs (NJC)

Don/Larry hinted:

> Maybe ... maybe not.  I'm not telling.  But can you
> figure out which of us is *really* Shawn Colvin?  I'll
> give you a hint -- "bees make it." :-)

I should have know it was that Shagadelic avenger McBabe!! ;-)

Kakki

NP:  Joni - A Bird That Whistles

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:38:48 -0400
From: Jerry Notaro <notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu>
Subject: Re: Guitar advice NJC

Randy Remote wrote:

> Krys & Geoff wrote:
>
> > Does anyone recommend those electronic tuner things?  Would they help a
> > total amateur like me?
>
> I would have to say no.  Electronic tuners are great if you are
> already close to being in tune, for example, if your E string is

But they are a godsend for we autoharp players!

np: Joni with Todd Rundgren

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:56:16 +0200
From: "Tube" <ramnix@pronet.it>
Subject: Siquomb

Stinkbomb, isn't she?

Tube

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:38:56 -0400
From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" <jlamadoo@one.net>
Subject: That "Bad" Hinton Book <NJC>

Didn't he assert that Joni has been celabate since 1967?  
- -- 
All the best,
Jim L'Hommedieu  ** Get well Wally! **  Tolerance, tolerance, tol...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:49:02 -0400
From: "patrick leader" <trxschwa@bway.net>
Subject: FW: dog eat dog, larry (jc)

- -----Original Message-----
From: patrick leader [mailto:trxschwa@bway.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 7:39 PM
To: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: RE: dog eat dog, larry (jc)


>
>patrick also didactically informs:
>

ow!  ouch!  ow, ow, ow!

it's funny in all the celebrity duet mentions, we haven't talked about
secret place.  that is one of my top five joni mitchell songs of all time, i
think.  i don't know or care how much of a collaboration it is, it just
plays as brilliant.

cheers to you.

patrick

np - blondie - no exit

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:24:26 -0700
From: "Mark or Travis" <mark-n-travis@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Taming the Tiger - Joni's version of 'Cats'?

I've decided that Taming the Tiger is really Joni's version of 'Cats'.
Hey if Andrew Lloyd Webber could do it, why not Joni?  And T. S Eliot
isn't going to have anything on our Joan, either, mind you!

In 'Harlem in Havana' we have a young female cat (hasn't yet hit her
first heat) who is drawn by a returning stray into the world inhabited
by the alley cats (much to the chagrin of the older females in her
brood).  'Man from Mars', of course, is the Cat That Got Away.  Then
we have 'Love Puts on a New Face' which is about the fickle and moody
nature of our feline friends.

 'Lead Balloon' is about a cat & dog fight.  It is followed by a cat's
eye view of dogs in 'No Apology'.  Where can there be a safe haven for
a cat in a world full of tire skids and teeth marks?  Nasty things,
those dogs!

The title track gives us a glimpse into one particular aspect of a
cat's personality:  just how unforgiving & spiteful the creatures can
be when they think they've been wronged.  And 'The Crazy Cries of
Love?  Have you ever heard the sound a female cat makes when she's in
heat?  Or that a male makes when said female is in proximity?  Need I
say more?

'Stay in Touch' is an illustration of just how difficult it can be to
gain a cat's trust (but it's worth the effort so keep at it - or stay
in touch, if you will).  In 'Happiness is the Best Facelift' one of
those older cats who disapproved of that young one in 'Harlem in
Havana' is still criticizing and complaining about her (even though
she's all grown up now and past any maternal correction - by now she
is a confirmed alley-cat - *no moral judgement implied, please!*).

And finally 'Here's to You' is bidding a sad but fond farewell to your
furry friend when he or she finally has to depart for that big Kitty
Heaven in the Sky where there are no dogs, the humans are programmed
to open doors & cans of food on command and there is a Mousie on a
Stick stand on every corner!

Felinely Yours,
Mark in Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:41:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)
Subject: Joni's Standard's "To Go"

Enjoying everything from Benny Goodman to classical since I was a kid
anyway, I've totally  fallen in love with all of the standards Joni did,
that are on the "A Day in the Garden" tape!  So all week I've been
trying to figure out just how she's going to be able to accomplish the
tour she's stated she wants to do, after her standards album.  Is she
going to try to do the tour with a Big Band or will it be an orchestra?
Has anybody heard anything about which way she's planning to go with
this next tour?  If she went the Big Band route, maybe she could tour
with Lyle Lovett or Harry Conick Jr. and use their bands?  Or could it
be more on the order of "special guest" with the home symphonies in each
of the major cities?  I remember James Taylor doing that with the
Portland Symphony a couple of years ago.... I make it to the symphony a
couple times a year, but missed that one, darn it!  The bummer about
using the orchestras would be some of the terrific venues like, The
Gorge, would probably have to be ruled out, I suppose.  So has there
been any word on this yet?

Penny

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:20:43 -0400
From: waytoblu@mindspring.com
Subject: re:yamaha guitars

I actually have never cared much for Yamaha guitars.  They have never really
seemed to have much character to them.  Everyone has their preference
though.  Or I suppose if you have a certain guitar for a very long time you
become attached to it.  I've had my Sigma guitar for over twenty years and
it definately is the only guitar that really feels like a friend to me....

Victor

NP: The Cure 17 Seconds

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:05:19 EDT
From: FMYFL@aol.com
Subject: Re: God Stuff (NJC)

In response to Amy's post:

Given the fact that I am not generally one to enter into religious 
discussions, I find it odd that I would comment on your most eloquent entry.  
The catholic religion, in which I was raised can, in my experience, be 
unyielding in the attempt to define admissible behavior.  Usually these 
dictates from the church regarding most aspects of our lives are, to say the 
least, unbending.  Your letter addresses issues, which are extremely 
pertinent, especially in this discussion group.

Certainly one of the most remarkable and admirable qualities of Joni's work 
is her total disregard for conventional mores. Like most true artists she 
transcends the conventions of what we accept as the "norm" and creates her 
own unique light, which we are fortunate enough to see.

The more we listen to her, the more enlightened we truly are. There is no 
compromised, impure angle to her work.  Only pure art is her intention, and 
it shines through bright and clear.

Such purity of spirit cannot be second guessed by "mere mortals". We should 
only feel blessed that we have been allowed to experience and share with each 
other such a rare gift.  Let's stop and acknowledge the fact that she has 
brought us together and allowed us to share and enjoy each other's thoughts 
and spirits.

Let's none of us begin to tread on that dimly lighted, limited piece of 
ground where beauty, talent and genius are subjected to human interrogation.  
Let's not even go to the place where we reduce ourselves to a point where we 
would feel comfortable discussing and making judgments on the love life of 
Joni or any other fellow human.

Your entry makes such valid points regarding Christianity and how it relates 
to this topic.  Yours is such a lucid, non judgemental approach to the topic 
at hand.  I am inspired by your ability to reconcile your religious beliefs 
with your obvious appreciation and respect for a gifted artist.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:15:52 EDT
From: RMuRocks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Joni's Standard's "To Go"

In a message dated 7/15/99 9:47:27 PM Central Daylight Time, 
zapuppy2@webtv.net writes:

<<  If she went the Big Band route, maybe she could tour
 with Lyle Lovett or Harry Conick Jr. and use their bands?  >>

I don't know, Pen - after seeing her put up with the mismatch of touring with 
Dylan last time out, it sure would be nice to see her go solo. But if she HAS 
to tag along with somebody's orchestra, these would not be the worst picks 
she could make!

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:12:26 EDT
From: RMuRocks@aol.com
Subject: Re: FW: dog eat dog, larry (jc)

In a message dated 7/15/99 6:56:18 PM Central Daylight Time, 
trxschwa@bway.net writes:

<< it's funny in all the celebrity duet mentions, we haven't talked about
 secret place.  that is one of my top five joni mitchell songs of all time, i
 think.  i don't know or care how much of a collaboration it is, it just
 plays as brilliant. >>

Absolutely..there's not a gratuitous second on it! The first time I heard it 
I played it over & over before I moved on to the next song on CMIARS. Their 
voices are such a gorgeous blend.

Bob, back home for good from his Philly tour...

NP: Dire Straits, "Skateaway"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:18:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)
Subject: Re: Joni's Standard's "To Go"

Bob writes:

I don't know, Pen - after seeing her put up with the mismatch of touring
with Dylan last time out, it sure would be nice to see her go solo. But
if she HAS to tag along with somebody's orchestra, these would not be
the worst picks she could make! 
Bob


But I don't see much similarity between the crowd that Dylan brought in,
acting very disrespectful to our Joan at times, and the music lovers
that would be going to hear Lyle or Harry Jr, along with Joni.  I could
see Joni gaining many new, younger? fans in a tour like that.  The
thought of seeing her solo isn't bad, mind you, but I don't know about
doing a standards tour solo.  Personally though, I think I still prefer
the notion of hearing her with a full symphony.  Ooooooohhh!!!

Penny

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:18:51 -0600
From: Bounced Message <les@jmdl.com>
Subject: No color, no contrast

From: "Mary August" <memeca@jps.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:50:46 -0700

What would Joni write about if we were all the same?  If we all had the
same beliefs, if we all looked the same and lived our lives the same?
The diversity is life-giving, thought-provoking and sometimes
laugh-inspiring.  Even the negativity can be appreciated for it's
ability to stimulate us to new awareness.

No color, no contrast, no Joni.  You guys are great!

Mary
NP:  The NRH crickets "live" outside my window

------------------------------

End of JMDL Digest V4 #311
**************************

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