From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #306 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, July 13 1999 Volume 04 : Number 306 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: out of the dark [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Demo Hissing [Bounced Message ] Re: UK Joni party? [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: 99's best so far (NJC) [AzeemAK@aol.com] The judds, both sides now. [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Attention Joni Lovers ["R Joseph" ] Re: Attention Joni LoversNJC [catman ] Re: UK Joni party? [catman ] Re: Attention Joni LoversNJC [Jason Maloney ] Re: UK Joni party? [Jason Maloney ] Plug Of The Week #27 ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Re: Attention Joni LoversNJC ["Mark or Travis" ] dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. ["patrick leader" ] Re: The Three Great Stimulants NJC [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: jonifest 2000? njc [Susan Chaloner ] Joni and her many men.... ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: Joni and her many men.... ["Kakki" ] Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. ["Kakki" ] Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. ["Eric G. Postel" ] Great thoughtful comments [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:04:34 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: out of the dark In a message dated 7/12/99 3:32:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dainty_c@bucks.net writes: > lurking over...... > catman wrote "march would be OK".... > count me in > What should we bring ? > Chris D Is this the Chris D. who met Joni after the Central Park tribute? Don't keep us in suspense. Did Kilauren have a boy or a girl? Did Joni say? Gina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:16:49 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Demo Hissing Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:12:55 -0400 From: lisa durfee Jerry Notaro wrote: > > From: lisa durfee > > > > I dont know, but Brian Gross very generously gave me a copy of this when > > we met at the JoniSJAzz concert (thanks again Brian!!) > > Well, well. Here I was sitting right in front of you and Brian, you're the > newbie, I'm the oldie, and you get the tape! I'm jealous! > > Jerry Jerry-Brian gave me the tape when we were standing in/on line behind closed gates while you were already inside with your official looking Joni Mitchell shirt on. liså D PS I subscribed to the Joni list in December, posted twice, and then lurked through 7 months til Jonisjazz. Does that still make me a newbie? :^) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:30:20 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: UK Joni party? In a message dated 10/07/99 17:57:36 GMT Daylight Time, Gertus@aol.com writes: << I'm in deepest Sussex. Please count me in wherever. I can get to London or Oxford in about the same time. Colin's place might take a bit longer, I don't know, but what a generous invitation. Thanks Colin. It would be great to meet some of you people. Jacky >> Count me in too; Colin, I had to read your post twice: at first I thought you were suggesting meeting in March next year!. A weekend would certainly be better for me, dunno about everyone else Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:30:25 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: 99's best so far (NJC) In a message dated 10/07/99 17:49:12 GMT Daylight Time, philipf@tinet.ie writes: << Beth Orton - Central Reservation Kate Rusby - Hourglass Macy Gray - On How Life Is Basement Jaxx - Remedy Roots - You Got Me Have to mention The Roots, I'm going to see them tonight. >> You're right on the money with Macy Gray, Philip - I just bought it yesterday, and it's great. I can't understand why anyone would describe her voice as velvetty, though; its scratchiness is what I find most appealing. Kate Rusby is wonderful too, so, so English, and indeed so recognisably Yorkshire. AND I love "Central Reservation". Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:18:00 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: The judds, both sides now. Just a quick note on the movie the Judds last night, I happened to see the later part of the movie Sunday night and Wynonna's first pubic debute was singing in her high school in Marin county, she chose " Both sides now". I'll try to catch the end tonight to see if they credit our beloved Joni. By the way, was the baby born July 1, A boy or a girl? My best to all of you, and a big hug to Wally. Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:41:30 BST From: "R Joseph" Subject: Attention Joni Lovers Any gay Joni fans out there? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:15:34 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Attention Joni LoversNJC Sorry, none on this list. R Joseph wrote: > Any gay Joni fans out there? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:17:32 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: UK Joni party? Three people so far wanting to meet at my place. Anymore takers? Once we know who is coming , we can then sort out when and food etc colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:52:01 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Attention Joni LoversNJC LOL Colin...that's not very helpful, is it? :-) Jason. catman wrote: > > Sorry, none on this list. > > R Joseph wrote: > > > Any gay Joni fans out there? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 01:06:32 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: UK Joni party? AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > Count me in too; Colin, I had to read your post twice: at first I thought you > were suggesting meeting in March next year!. A weekend would certainly be > better for me, dunno about everyone else > > Azeem Yes, I would also only be able to make a weekend, so if that's what it ends up being there's a good chance I'll be able to come along. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 01:22:42 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Plug Of The Week #27 Hi there, Thanks to Russ and Julie Paris ( of Jackson Browne Website fame ) I found another great artist and another great album a couple of weeks ago : Darryl Purpose - Travelers' Code ( Tangible Music ) Darryl is one of folk music's fastest rising singer/songwriters. The album shows a maturation rarely seen from an artist who's only been touring the circuit fulltime for two years. Considered by many as a modern-day Harry Chapin ( with a slice of James Taylor's voice thrown in ), his ability to tell a tale keeps his audiences glued not just to their seats, but to every word. The album includes the Lucy Kaplansky duet "Ring On My Hand" and Ellis Paul guests on "Child Of Hearts". Musicians include Bob Malone, David Miner ( who also produced the album ), Ron Aniello and Daryl S. Copies of this album ( as well as his two previous albums "Right Side Of Zero" and "Same River Twice" ) is available from : Tangible Music PO Box 340 Merrick NY 11566-0340 U.S.A Phone: 516 409 5433 Fax : 561 679 1377 Email: info@tangible-music.com Website : http://www.tangible-music.com This man should be a star! Take care, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:52:58 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Attention Joni LoversNJC > LOL Colin...that's not very helpful, is it? :-) > > Jason. > > > catman wrote: > > > > Sorry, none on this list. > > > > R Joseph wrote: > > > > > Any gay Joni fans out there? Well with my email address I would think it would be obvious but here I am! There's a whole contingent of us here. I'm not going to 'out' anybody though! Mark in Seattle > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:09:18 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: The Three Great Stimulants NJC Bob relates: > > << Two of our daughters were recently defined in an email as > being "the good-looking one" and "the great personality one." > Of course the daughter with great personality is looking for > some affirmation that great personality will serve her better > in the long run than good looks.>> > Maybe this poem can be of help ---- Phenomenal Woman by Maya Angelou Pretty women wonder where my secret lies I'm not cute or built to suit a model's fashion size But when I start to tell them They think I'm telling lies. I say It's in the reach of my arms The span of my hips The stride of my steps The curl of my lips. I'm a woman Phenomenally Phenomenal woman That's me. I walk into a room Just as cool as you please And to a man The fellows stand or Fall down on their knees Then they swarm around me A hive of honey bees. I say It's the fire in my eyes And the flash of my teeth The swing of my waist And the joy in my feet. I'm a woman Phenomenally Phenomenal woman That's me. Men themselves have wondered What they see in me They try so much But they can't touch My inner mystery. When I try to show them They say they still can't see. I say It's in the arch of my back The sun of my smile The ride of my breasts The grace of my style. I'm a woman Phenomenally Phenomenal woman That's me. Now you understand Just why my head's not bowed I don't shout or jump about Or have to talk real loud When you see me passing It ought to make you proud. I say It's in the click of my heels The bend of my hair The palm of my hand The need for my care. 'Cause I'm a woman Phenomenally Phenomenal woman That's me. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:49:43 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Attention Joni LoversNJC mark wrote >Well with my email address I would think it would be obvious but here >I am! i don't know mark. at first i thought you suffered from multiple personality disorder. like today i'm mark or travis? [i'd better put several emoticons here just in case :-) ;-) :-D ] as to the poufs on this list: R Joseph: shame on you! can't you see my boa? wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:14:00 -0700 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: jonifest 2000? njc catman wrote: > > Well I have sen the Sound Of Music many many times, about 30. By choice!!! Well, if my mother had taken you to the theatre I'm positive it would have turned you off catman :~D Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-"...You're Mamma wouldn't like me..."-Suzie Quatro ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:31:46 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. this one has been sitting, demanding a response... bob writes: >I think Klein is to blame i get so tired of klein being blamed for everything that is not right with joni's wild things to indigo output, and never getting credit for what works. for one thing, it defies reality. joni has talked about the collaboration in almost every interview, for ten years. every concert introduction shows her love and respect. and to imagine that joni was completely pulled by the nose on ded, or any other project, goes against everything we've ever learned about her. she's pretty damned hard-assed. my take is that wtrf was the beginning of a collaboration, an odd phase in joni's progression (going to blunt rock after mingus would have been strange even if larry weren't involved.) joni has spoken about the label springing producers on her, for ded. but she also seems really proud of the album. i'm not sure which joni to believe. but if she really thought that dolby fucked the album up, would she have used him on chalkmark? and michael paz wrote >the EVIL Thomas Dolby's influence i can't go back and figure out why dolby was brought into this project, but i have to offer: dog eat dog was released in '85. dolby's reputation at the time almost certainly had something to do with his second studio album, 'the flat earth', released in 1983. that album is in nearly every way superior to ded. the sound is perfect, the production for each song is absolutely appropriate to the song (as opposed to ded, where inappropriateness is the major flaw). it doesn't reflect badly on joni to understand that she used an instrument (t. dolby) in a way that didn't serve her music, but it doesn't make sense to blame the instrument. back to the klein-bashing, doesn't it make more sense to think of wtrf and ded as steps along the klein-mitch collaboration rather than mistakes she made because of that big old bad man? there is incredibly strong evidence that they both learned from their experiences. first is chalkmark, an album that i love dearly. still thick with production, but the production fits the songs, which makes it a massive improvement over dog eat dog. lakota? i'm listening to the ded version of three great stimulants (from ded) right now, and yes, i love the acoustic versions better. but i'm hearing lakota in my head, and knowing that an acoustic version would never match the original. i feel this way about most of the chalkmark songs. and bob offers, 'I'm also guessing that it was idea to get all the "guests" that appear on Joni's 80's work in an attempt to make her more marketable (Lionel Ritchie, Billy Idol, Willie Nelson).' that's a pretty unsubstantiated guess, bob; blaming klein. and further, the duet thing was big in the '80s (and is still big) but not necessarily bad. joni had her favorites, and when she boarded the duet train, she usually made it part of her artistic growth, especially on chalkmark. though i truly hate 'good friends', i don't think of it as craven; her friendship with michael mcdonald is well known (his wife collects her artwork, and she loves his voice). her chalkmark collaborators were also friends. in context of a life, chalkmark sounds more like joni working with people she wanted to work with, than an attempt to make her more marketable. she wrote songs that were so right for her fellow singers. if klein's to blame for that, good for him. the duets on chalkmark, for the most part, rise far above the usual phone-in shit. secret place, snakes and ladders, cool water? this is brilliance. continuing on the klein contribution, what about night ride home? it sounds stripped down, but it most definitely is not; it's one of her most complex productions, with larry almost under her skin understanding what she wanted. every interview of the time credits his contribution. it's also her best album since hejira. in my view, her third finest album ever, and i'm sure happy that klein crossed her path, and helped her to make night ride home. patrick, hoping that comments like >experiment with voice manipulations, sampling, all that electronic goop that just doesn't ring true on a Joni record.> will never prevent joni from being the final arbiter of what rings true on a joni record. np - joni - lucky girl - my favorite moment on ded. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:39:16 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: The Three Great Stimulants NJC Bob wrote: The first three great stimulants that come to my mind in terms       of stimulating others are Kindness, Compassion, and Grace. In a       nutshell, doing for others that which you don't HAVE to do...of       course, ultimately you have to be yourself and not concerned       what others may think. Great reply Bob! But I think I'd replace Kindness with Humility. Kindness should be a bi-product that flows freely out of one that is humble. My two cents. Blessings, Penny ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:44:48 -0700 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: jonifest 2000? njc RMuRocks@aol.com wrote: > Maybe she wanted you to be a nun... No man...she just didn't want me...she thought she did before she got me but then, didn't things change! :~D > (sorry Mom, yet another parental dream > gone south..:~D) Yeah, specially since I am now practicing my charms on a 6ft5in Ray o' Sunshine ;~) Klein darlin' you better get your bass in the door while you still can man...I'm going, going, gone :~D > Looks like the third time is the charm!?! :~) Were there other times? Where was I? How many aliases have you Bob? :~D And before I go: I know I still owe a few of you replys...I am way behind with my email...Be patient with me...I'll do my very best to make it worth your while ;~) Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-"...If I learn to levitate can I also fly?..."-Megon McDonough ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:49:41 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: Joni and her many men.... I've been wanting to write this post for awhile.....wanting to know how JMDLers felt about this issue....What do we think about Joni and her many men? It seems that she's found love in so many places, but moved on each time to find something new...Is she just one of those people that attract so many people to her, has men falling in love with her all over the place? I find myself trying to defend her when people talk about her being a bit of a 'free spirit' in the negative sense of the words...I've heard people joke about how she went thru Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young - and Taylor, and maybe Cohen and does the list go on?....And after reading things about her, I sometimes struggle to defend her.....not that she shouldn't be allowed to love and be with who ever she wants?? Was she really with a lot of men? And do you think she will ever settle down? or is she one of those people that are just too much of a 'free spirit' - in the GOOD sense of the term? I'd really like to know what you guys think...and, as someone said before, I really hope Joni isn't out there reading this, cos she'd probably tell me to mind my own business..... But, as a young woman who has not experienced being in and out of love with many men, I wonder about it....the notion of being with many people, whether it's a good, growing/maturity thing...whether it leaves you loveless and alone?? Help me - all you wise wise Listers Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:46:28 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni and her many men.... Angela, I don't know that I have a "wise" opinion but I have always regarded Joni as a "Good" free spirit. It has always seemed perfectly natural to me that she has experienced a full life of love. Yes, scores of men were in love with her and many of them were quite attractive to her on many levels and brought much to enhance her life and art. In articles and interviews she has called herself a "serial monogamist" and I think that really suits her. A lot of love has come her way and she also has an abundance to give in return. Many know of the Rolling Stone "flow chart" from the 70s that charted all her many actual and alleged lovers. She was very insulted by it and rightfully so. I had a boyfriend once who infuriated me into a big argument by saying Joni was a loose party girl in the old days. Although he professed to love her as much as I did, I knew right then he didn't really "get" who she was at all. It irks me to even recall his comments! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:20:52 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. > i get so tired of klein being blamed for everything that is not right with > joni's wild things to indigo output, and never getting credit for what > works. for one thing, it defies reality. joni has talked about the > collaboration in almost every interview, for ten years. every concert > introduction shows her love and respect. and to imagine that joni was > completely pulled by the nose on ded, or any other project, goes against > everything we've ever learned about her. she's pretty damned hard-assed. A hearty 'AMEN' to this. I for one cannot imagine Joni being so swept off her feet that she would allow anyone to push in any direction musically or artistically. Klein may have been a collaborator but you can't tell me that Joni wasn't at the helm the whole time. > > my take is that wtrf was the beginning of a collaboration, an odd phase in > joni's progression (going to blunt rock after mingus would have been strange > even if larry weren't involved.) I don't see WTRF as blunt rock. There are jazz overtones all over it. It's a transitionary record. She's still playing with jazz but she's heading in a new direction. the sound is perfect, the production for each song is > absolutely appropriate to the song (as opposed to ded, where > inappropriateness is the major flaw). I have to disagree about the production of DED being inappropriate. Her subject matter is encapsulated in the albums title and the production suits it perfectly. Most of it is harsh & mechanical sounding. The perfect background for her take on the harsh, hard, glittering, dog-eat-dog world of the 80's. Not pretty or pleasant maybe, but appropriate to her subject. I think the album succeeds in being what she envisioned it to be. > continuing on the klein contribution, what about night ride home? it sounds > stripped down, but it most definitely is not; it's one of her most complex > productions, with larry almost under her skin understanding what she wanted. > every interview of the time credits his contribution. it's also her best > album since hejira. in my view, her third finest album ever, and i'm sure > happy that klein crossed her path, and helped her to make night ride home. And again a heartfelt AMEN to Patrick's comments on NRH. As brilliant and beautiful as anything else Joni has done and that includes the sacred Hejira. Mark the Heretic in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:26:37 -0700 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: Re: Joni and her many men.... Woman of heart and mind, I wish I was on her short list. Love? You gotta take when it's given, no greater gift is there. Take Care gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: Takats, Angela To: 'joni' Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 7:49 PM Subject: Joni and her many men.... > I've been wanting to write this post for awhile.....wanting to know how > JMDLers felt about this issue....What do we think about Joni and her many > men? It seems that she's found love in so many places, but moved on each > time to find something new...Is she just one of those people that attract so > many people to her, has men falling in love with her all over the place? I > find myself trying to defend her when people talk about her being a bit of a > 'free spirit' in the negative sense of the words...I've heard people joke > about how she went thru Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young - and Taylor, and > maybe Cohen and does the list go on?....And after reading things about her, > I sometimes struggle to defend her.....not that she shouldn't be allowed to > love and be with who ever she wants?? Was she really with a lot of men? And > do you think she will ever settle down? or is she one of those people that > are just too much of a 'free spirit' - in the GOOD sense of the term? > I'd really like to know what you guys think...and, as someone said before, I > really hope Joni isn't out there reading this, cos she'd probably tell me to > mind my own business..... > > But, as a young woman who has not experienced being in and out of love with > many men, I wonder about it....the notion of being with many people, whether > it's a good, growing/maturity thing...whether it leaves you loveless and > alone?? > > Help me - all you wise wise Listers > Ange > Sydney > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:13:26 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. Patrick wrote: > back to the klein-bashing, doesn't it make more sense to think of wtrf and > ded as steps along the klein-mitch collaboration rather than mistakes she > made because of that big old bad man? there is incredibly strong evidence > that they both learned from their experiences. first is chalkmark, an album > that i love dearly. still thick with production, but the production fits > the songs, which makes it a massive improvement over dog eat dog. lakota? > i'm listening to the ded version of three great stimulants (from ded) right > now, and yes, i love the acoustic versions better. but i'm hearing lakota > in my head, and knowing that an acoustic version would never match the > original. i feel this way about most of the chalkmark songs. I've been thinking about the 80s albums and DED even before this thread began. While I've stated in the past my feeling that they are more a collaboration than a singular effort, there is much in them that I really love. And surprisingly to even myself, I think DED is the best of the 80s group. (I can hear Don/Larry hitting the floor in a dead faint as he reads this ;-) The 80s albums are a "different" Joni to me and one that felt like a departure, but not a bad one. Just my subjective opinion - while I love many songs on WTRF like Moon At The Window, Chinese Cafe, Love, and even Underneath The Streetlights, I think it is the weakest of the three 80s albums because it feels uneven to me. I've always loved Chalkmark, but more for the lush layers and gorgeous music, rather than the overall lyrics, which I think are among her weakest. DED is the most "even" to me overall in terms of lyrics and melody. I can tune out the added "goop" and still really love the music on DED. It shines through regardless of the production or Dolby or Larry or whatever. Someone mentioned hearing the guitar version of "The Three Great Stimulants" - thanks to Phyliss I listened to the DED interview tape over the weekend which included that version and it is beautiful. Also have to mention that Joni performed the guitar version of it during the tapings last May. It was the biggest surprise of the night for a number of us. Unfortunately it was cut, along with many other great songs like Slouching Toward Bethlehem, from the final PPV/video. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:06:39 -0400 From: "Eric G. Postel" Subject: Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. I agree -- DED is one of her best ever records. one reason can only be appreciated if one considers the general situation -- at the time, the economy was booming and everybody loved Reagen and liberals were in a major retreat and many artists had stopped tackling political subjects -- then along comes Joni with a seriously hard hitting set of lyrics about how everything was not okay. she was years ahead of others. add to that interesting and innovative music and DED is a knockout. On the personal side, i played the first three songs for perhaps three months straight with my new baby daughter on my shoulder -- it was, believe it or not, great lullabye music. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:11:59 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: dog eat dog, and '80s joni again. In a message dated 7/12/99 11:32:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << Just my subjective opinion - while I love many songs on WTRF like Moon At The Window, Chinese Cafe, Love, and even Underneath The Streetlights, I think it is the weakest of the three 80s albums because it feels uneven to me. I've always loved Chalkmark, but more for the lush layers and gorgeous music, rather than the overall lyrics, which I think are among her weakest. DED is the most "even" to me overall in terms of lyrics and melody. >> Oddly enough, I would rank them in exactly the opposite order. WTRF is the only one of the three that I can listen to all the way through in one sitting. There are a couple of songs on DED and Chalkmark that I like, but overall I consider those two albums her most uneven because each has a couple of songs I don't enjoy listening to. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:56:56 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and her many men.... This is a subject that I've often pondered. While cleaning out my hall closet not that long ago, I came across some old poetry notebooks that I wrote in during my high school years. One poem was about Joni and her men and wondered about commitment and monogamy and her Joni-ness and how it all tied into life. I didn't have much of a clue then, but now I think that Joni's "serial monogamy" has less to do with being a "Good" free sprit and more to do with the huge, huge scars of going through a pregnancy all alone, dealing with the swollen body, the birth, the aches and pains of postpartum to coming to the awful realization that she couldn't raise this baby alone. Throw in the complication of Chuck Mitchell who said that he could deal with the baby and then did a 180, I think that you have the ingredients for a heart that is "full and hollow." In many ways, I think that the label of "free spirit" is a handy thing to keep things close, but not too close for comfort. Having said this, in no way do I see her as "loose" or deserving of that Rolling Stones' "Old Lady of the Year" garbage. And those are my thoughts from the furnace that is my bedroom, MG np: "JMDL: Live" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:02:15 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Joni and her many men.... Ange wrote: I find myself trying to defend her when people talk about her being a bit of a 'free spirit' in the negative sense of the words...I've heard people joke about how she went thru Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young - and Taylor, and maybe Cohen and does the list go on?....And after reading things about her, I sometimes struggle to defend her.... I can't profess wisdom either, but to quote Jesus to the crowd when a woman was caught in adultery: "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." That's the same guidline I follow and would readily state. I can't say I personally agree with every lifestyle choice Joni has made, but to judge her is not my responcibility nor that of the others that make the jokes you hear. Maybe you could remind them that the woman we love has got a wonderfully sensitive heart, a deeply probing mind and a tremendous talent at expressing her insights through her artistic talents....enriching all of our lives. And the judging should be left up to God who gave her all of those gifts. Peace, Penny ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:51:26 -0700 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: Joni and her many men.... Penny wrote: > And the judging should > be left up to God who gave her all of those gifts. What is all this judging talk? The Great Spirit would not judge. The Great Spirit would not find it necessary...but then the Great Spirit is not puffed up...The Great Spirit just is...Now why don't we all try just being in the moment...Dare I suggest that we all run away and wrestle with our great big egos? Carry on Joni ;~) Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-"...Did Jesus have a baby sister Was she bitter, was she sweet Did she wind up in a convent Did she end up on the street On the run, on the stage, did she dance Did he have a sister, a little baby sister Did Jesus have a sister Did they give her a chance?... Did she long to be a saviour saving everyone she met And in private to her mirror did she whisper Saviorette, saviour woman, saviour person Save your breath..."-Dory Previn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 01:29:04 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Great thoughtful comments Patrick I really enjoyed reading your comments about DED. I didn't realize NRH was so high on your list as well. I really wasn't blaming the instrument (T.Dolby), but maybe being a little to playful with my word choices (comedy stylings) regarding this topic that can really get some folks up to dance (know what I mean?). I have to go back and make my own list again to figure out where I am as a whole with her entire body of work. I really have fond feelings towards WTRF cause it came in a period of my life where I was in love (newly in love, remember that?) and also Chinese Cafe had an enormous impact on me because of a daughter I bore (so to speak) but could not raise (and my mother warned me about that long before it actually happened). I think Klein's/Don's impact on Joni was a strong one and one of the most lasting in her entire career (which speaks volumes of him as a player, producer and quite possibly as a lover) { oh gawd did I say that}. I am working on a developmental deal with a female singer in my home studio right now and we are doing an "alternative tango" for lack of a better term. It goes to a waltz tempo in the bridge and I am really excited about the collaboration with these other fine musicians I am working with. Has anyone ever heard a recording of a tango with any waltz influence in it? Cheers, Michael ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #306 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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