From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #305 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, July 12 1999 Volume 04 : Number 305 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- NJC .. Self-Intro ... 'Moving the Waterfall' poem ... parroties ["C. G." ] RE: NJC Anagrams ["C. G." ] Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends [M.Russell@iaea.org] re: park tribute [M.Russell@iaea.org] NJC Re: Joni and Tarot Musings ["C. G." ] Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends ["Kakki" ] Steeleye Span (NJC) ["John Low" ] Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends ["C. G." ] "Unplugged & Jamming" -- a vile bootleg? [Don Rowe ] Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends [Mark Domyancich ] Am I the only one who believes in "Ana-mancy"? ["C. G." ] Demo Hissing [michael paz ] Re: The Three Great Stimulants NJC [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordanie] Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends [Les Irvin ] Re: The Three Great Stimulants NJC ["C. G." ] Re: Aimee Mann (NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Demo Hissing [Jerry Notaro ] lightbulb humor (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Demo Hissing [Mark Domyancich ] out of the dark [Christopher Dainty ] trip-hop joni [Bounced Message ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:12:06 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: NJC .. Self-Intro ... 'Moving the Waterfall' poem ... parroties Hello Sweet-Well-Water Jars =&= Joniphiles! For the pure of Heart and Mind and Soul, skip down to the poem and leave all my other generalizing for some day when the 'noise' level's down and Monday's turned to Sunday evening perhaps? It's Sunday Eve for me now .. I've often thought that California and Hawaii wrap up the JMDL Day and Australia leads the way -- that'd be Helly-Gilly's influence on ideas! She posts sometimes in sounds and smirks, Junes and jerks, croons and quirks ... but I don't need to tell you all how many *Good* poets are hereabouts!! Let it flow! I vote for unleashing and releasing the Joni-Within! Long ago I introduced myself to this forum of discussion at considerable length but hope now I'll do so more briefly, if still splashing a bit ;-D because one of my *favorite* things here are the Self-Intro's! Or should I go for ***Gush***? :-D My favorite songwriter is Joni: I sometimes conceive as "JonimJonimJonim" the calling of her by name when I feel respectful and also very speechless; I first heard her in the summer of '67 or '68 on KFRC or KMPX or Pacifica KPFA I think, when I was "a teen", but that's a foggy long time back to recall -- I remember getting to hear her 1st LP sometime soon after hearing Donovan's "Guinevere" ("Sunshine Superman", with "Mellow Yellow", are worth grabbing if ever you chance upon 'm) ... Owsley was making blotter-paper acid near here (Bay Area) and the time's they were a'changin' ... my friend iJM and I were learning to fingerpick but lacked the nerve to hitch to Woodstock ... no one's ever surpassed her writing for me; I believe she cares deeply about words and trustingly sees 'em off like kids to school (?) ... where they grow and learn inside with us .... whether one's 18 or slightly more bent ... Name a best guitarist? Julian Bream, but Joni comes close to a tie! Sweetest singer? Terry G. from "The Joy Of Cooking"; again JM's about tied! I've certainly listened much more to Joni, come to think. My favorite poet is Féderico García Lorca, partially because he helped love to blossom herein, and partially because I've recently seen a movie about his mysterious death that I consider worth recommending (yet the title escapes me!) .... his poems are like children's hands, and I say that being the father of four in or approaching their teens (too quickly!!)... I'm a Soccer Mom of sorts + the Women's World Cup has loomed large in our life; my eldest daughter's good enough to be on CA's Olympic Development Team. Lorca, like Joni, has a child-like and parent-like dichotomous quality for me; he also makes me shake my head in quiet wonderments ... When certain poets speak, when certain strings and harmonies are strummed, I may hear other voices in accompaniment; I know they're not there, yet if one's background is chorale/choir, then one's ear's imagination will wend that way perhaps? It happens often enough within Joni's chords that I've almost always stopped starting to learn a song of hers to simply be still in appreciation for what the timbre and 'harmonies' do with the surround or room I'm in. I look on it as a positive experience though it's properly termed schizophrenia ... Joni may hear "you in the wiring in the walls" and in an early interview discussed hearing melodies in backgrounds + times. If it's an illness, it has positive aspects. For me, there are drawbacks at times, bothersome interference and interruptions mostly. I do not mean to infer that Joni suffers; I know nothing of the sort. That she's what I would call a Naïve Sensitif (sp?) *is* integral to my thoughts about her and her approach to creativity. And rhythmically, she's simply from an advanced species, period! My songs? DreamLand, The Jungle Line are up top but the first LP's work is, to me, the most uniquely dear. Poetry occurs in rhythms, without any words; her fingering early on being a perfect example. And so, I'll introduce myself by a poem written by Le Vierge du Houle, who may also have passed by mysterious circumstances ... it is a poem about passing that SueMac thought well of (she of the hard-won & excellent guitar transcriptions and tabs nearby!!!!) and whose opinions I think most highly of ... It was written for perusal by the writers and members of ionink@ jmdl.com (should the poet+ess/Joni-within-you seek a place to express your creativities?) .... so, I hope it's á propos for us quasi-non-plussed in the crowd (?!) .... and I hope its rhythms are real for your ear, if also the paths of meaning wander to live ... >Moving The Waterfall >-------------------- >Until one day >A little boy in the pueblo, in the town of browns within whites >And the churchyard's crosses >And the churchyard's flowers >And the churchyard's grasses >Near the sweet well water, >Surrounded adobe rising to knees >Of the boy by the pueblo's circle, >Where Nana's manzanita, Grandma's gnarled fingers, >Since the DustStorm Day and the Day of All Winds >Had reached to the sky and then gone ... >Away ... > >Until all that big fat old Time had rolled down the plateau >Until that one day when no one thought of her >Until that one different day without other differences ... >Until that day became this one, >This one day flat under the sun ... > >The waterfall up the river >With its long grey hair >With its droplets of light >And rainbows like doorways >That the day fell down within >As it chased sun and wind >And laughed all broken over the broken long granite ... > >Until the Waterfall Day >When Nana was moving, >Moving the Waterfall, >Until this day-fallen Now >In the heat of Our Always ... >To the cool of Our Past ... > >Did the pueblo know of her >In the manzanita paths? > >The manzanita's curled shadows >Fallen down on the stone? >Beaten down by the Sun? > >Turned into water? >And Nana's sweet laughter! > >Then Cristina's urnful of water >Giggled on its ride >From light into shadow >From heat into cool. > >It was the day that they all again heard >The waterfall laughing >In each birdsong and word! > each! word! > >Nana's old stories ... >And the cool living water ... >Living like ouzels ... >Nana's blue eyes >Full-meaning >Like rivers of rain, >Gatherways of tears. >The mirrored sky's greatness in puddles! >For the birds nearby! >Her hands jumping this way and that way! >Nana's laughter and laughter, >Being older one day ... > >********************************** >LVdH, w/ help from Joni M. & Lorca - -- It reminds me of a long&grey-haired Joni teaching guitar and songs to kids in the mountains somewhere, strumming, in tune w/ the day's harmonies and filling their lives up with her fun & wayfarin' stories. And yet I know well that a "Lakota" or "Ethiopia" of hers will bring me to tears too ... and make me wish her an ever-longer life, that her hair turns as white as Long Clouds! I once tried drawing in rapidograph a forest floor of pine needles, all interwoven, yet each one more a part of all than a unique form; I think this poem groups words like pine needle-clusters, or leaves on a creek, so that the effect of phrase-meaning is felt as one larger thing passing by. I feel Joni often achieves something like that, where a line has a wonderful color and feel and yet the wholeness is always felt, known, fully-conveyed! Do you think she *thinks in stories*, as well as often writing that way? One day hereabouts, about two-plus years ago(?), I offered as a gift a book called "Star Art" to a *huge* Joni fan who borrowed it and scanned some of her paintings from it, then returned it to me, much as another member declined my offer of it to him (I'd sought to somehow honor his time and effort), he preferring to collect one of his own soon after. Thus, people here are not only kind and gracious ... they're honorable, considerate and trustworthy. I say so to express that I feel *your* opinions and statements of fact are thus just as valuable to me as the sense+feelings resilient in her songs and paintings. It's great to hear news about Joni and views 'bout baloney! ;-) I love both! &-D (mixed up and happy about it!) ... Have ya ever looked at her LP and wondered how to play Both Sides Now? hmmm .. that thread's for you, MG! "Heart & Humor, & Humility", - -Chris G.- Of the plu-plussed variety?? Thanks for the bandwidth! P.S. 2,000 words? *WHAT* 2,000 word limit, FishPond??? P.P.S. *ouzel / 'ousel' is a bird that swims+flies underwater as well as through the air; they *may* be seen in the Sierra Nevada and Rocky Mountains I believe but I can't find them by that name in my 'Nat'l Audubon Soc. Field Guide to N.A. Birds - Western Region' ... so you'll have to take my word for it, though they're prob'ly quite rare *if / whenever* they are here in California! The poem places them in a pueblo somewheres anyway ... perhaps in winter they all go to wallyburger's! with many other happy thoughts?! I've heard they've been seen around here, and I'd love to see some here! *That* bird-brained thread's for Mr. Bill Dollinger, who deeply cares for animals and their rights and people's rights 'round here, including Joni "parroties". Maybe next I'll try to write a parody to possibly honor friends + betters! Sweet Bird, you are ... freer than the Sun or Mars ... all these vain tamers w/ capturing jars ... oh, somewhere up there up on your feathers laughing ... -- you must be laughing! Endymion changes lovely ... .... No one knows! Caresses at most ... Freedom in your songs forever laughing! Love on your feathers forever following ... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... Diamond chain jus' dodging? Time and Change is Tê Ching? Tim an' Jane jus' talking? ... Time In Changes touching ...? Needs work! Fattening? Needs a tectrix? More mondogreens? "Help Me!" *"Endymion" -- a poetic romance by Keats; well worth reading! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:45:35 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: RE: NJC Anagrams > Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 04:45:07 -0300 > From: "Wally Kairuz" > Subject: RE: NJC Anagrams > > where's le vierge where one needs him? born anagram master: i invoke thee! > wallyk Respondant's Poem: "INVOKE" is a keyword, ya nymph!! Be CAREFUL with that thing!! ============================================================== 1) I sent Colin "over 50" anagrams . He thanked me kindly. Ring! 2) I sent SueMac the coördinates of a Confluence of Anagrammatic Influences as sensed wandering about her Etch-A-Sketch's aura. Ding! 3) Les is about to inform me of the TRUE meaning of "brief" (briefly!) ... Bonk! 4) Bev is wondering why I haven't submitted my STAS-poem-in-a-Helix as promised for many moons now? ("r=theta" : my Holy Maxim)(see below!) ...Clunk--boing!! 5) I have INVOKED the BURGER in WINTERTIME, Most Mystic Perturbance! Hail, BURGER! 6) I hath also INVOKED the DILLINGER of Parodies and am hoping to be bested on "Sweet Weird" .... Ping! 7) I just turned 18 yesterday -- gimme a break!! Pang! 8) "lvdh" and "le vierge" are copyrighted phrases owned by Sin Livre=Les Irvin (see Digest Archive requesting my CPA-ish help on legalities ifsoever the K-person is temp'ly unavailable?) ... I only made recent reference to same "in passing"! Dang! 9) Dong! Leave It To Wally to require a sexualiffic ending ... lv dh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:52:06 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends Clark wrote: > them." Then again, she mentions saying a little prayer > at the moment Klein asked her to play video games at > the Santa Monica pier. Can you elaborate on this little item? I have never read this anywhere. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:56:25 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: re: park tribute Chris wrote: > I then brought up the fact that I heard she is going to be > a grandmother again. She gave me this look and half > screamed it happened! Apparently that day. No wonder > she was in such a good mood. So was it a boy or a girl???? Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:58:19 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: NJC Re: Joni and Tarot Musings Hi Melinda! Would you (or anyone else) be at all miffed if I made a poem of your gem of a post by cutting and pasting? Trust me? It's perfect for seeing what my own inner mind's up to! Whatcha think? OK?? It may be a few days before it posts -- I'm on a diet of expurgational imbuements and mustn't throw out the bathwater with the baby! - --Le Vierge/Houle/Virgule-- Chris G. Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:31:31 -0500 From: Melinda > IX The Crone > > With her magical number nine, the Crone represents the inner teacher, > the silent wisdom that exists within and can be tapped into for > guidance. She probably represents solitude, and certainly represents > simplicity--making a truthful choice of some kind, choosing a life path > in utter seriousness. > > Priestess Swords > > Water and air; representing a thinking woman from whom wisdom flows. > Traditionally the "widow," she is alone but not necessarily cut off. > Like an Amazon, she has clarity and integrity. > > Hi, Joni lovers! Recently I was giving myself a reading, and it came to > me that the heart of what Joni represents and has taught me about can be > seen to be embodied in these Tarot cards I've described above. > > Any tarot readers in JMDL land? > > Blessed be, > Melinda ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:56:45 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends Marian wrote: > Clark wrote: > > > them." Then again, she mentions saying a little prayer > > at the moment Klein asked her to play video games at > > the Santa Monica pier. > > Can you elaborate on this little item? I have never read this anywhere. > > Marian I recall hearing/reading this story a few times and love the story. Here is an excerpt from her May 1991 Rolling Stone interview with David Wild "A Conversation with Joni Mitchell" - "You coproduced 'Night Ride Home' with your husband, Larry Klein. How did you two meet?" "We met on the Wild Things Run Fast album. He played bass for me I was kind of lonely at the time. And I actually prayed. I don't pray that often. And I prayed an embarrassed prayer I said "Look God, I know I don't write, I don't call. However, I don't need that much. All I need is a real good kisser who likes to play pinball" So two days later Klein said to me, "How would you like to go to the Santa Monica pier and play video games?" And I looked up at the sky, and I said, "Close enough." And he said, "I beg your pardon?" And we never looked back. We've been together ever since. So I look at it as divine intervention." Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:31:23 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: NJC... AWAY LIZ LURK ... albeit a Cruel Hoax really? Here are anagrams of "wallykairuz": 1. A YAW LIZ LURK 2. A WAY LIZ LURK 3. AWAY LIZ LURK This means that "Leave It To Burger" is really LizTaylor=Betsy! Mystery solved! But there's a problem! "YHWH" is only half-home! Thus, one must pronounce the last anagram backwards to find Hidden/Heathen Spiritual Meaning (norming)(ugh!): "AWAY LIZ LURK" thus becomes "CRUEL ZEAL YAHWEH" (don't pronounce out loud unless you want sorry-us spirit-you-all Presences to de-lurk, please). What does this have to do with Joni, let alone me? Trust me: Never let it be known you're a savant, sage, or naïf-sensitif unless you're really, really and truly, oh-so-actually Ready For The Big Time!! I know! you can believe me! Some people just cannot take a joke! Liz? Are we still friends, dearie? P.S. If you want all 80,000+ anagrams of my full name, send $150 (for copying and handling, I swear!!) to my snail. he's around. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 05:36:48 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Friends have come to find they can't be friends yeah i remember that. she said something like "lord make him a good pinball player and a good kisser please". i'm sure it was a musician magazine interview. wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: M.Russell@iaea.org Para: CarltonCT@aol.com ; joni@smoe.org Fecha: Lunes 12 de Julio de 1999 02:07 Asunto: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends >Clark wrote: > >> them." Then again, she mentions saying a little prayer >> at the moment Klein asked her to play video games at >> the Santa Monica pier. > >Can you elaborate on this little item? I have never read this anywhere. > >Marian > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:47:00 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: UK Joni Party > Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:39:44 +0100 > From: catman > Subject: Re: UK Joni party? > > Kevin is willing to come to my place, maybe Jacky. March is easy to get to by > road. A1 from north or south. and by train or coach. From London either A1 or > M11 dependiong on which end. > When we've heard from enough people perhaps we can then agree a date. > Assuming enough peeps think my place is okay. > I've been off the Joni scene for a few months (too much work and other stuff), but I would like to try and make this, depending on when it is. Thanks for the offer, Colin. Phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:54:35 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: Steeleye Span (NJC) It’s nice to see so many Steeleye Span enthusiasts on the list. Like the others who have posted on this topic, “Hark the Village Wait” is a particular favorite of mine. I love the song ‘Dark-eyed Sailor’ - a real ‘goose bumper’! In Digest V.4, No.303, Sunday 11 July 1999: Philip wrote: “The first Steeleye Span was four fifths Irish … .” And Mark in Seattle replied: “I didn’t know there was a Steeleye Span before Tim Hart and Maddy Prior!” As far as I am aware Steeleye Span grew out of rehearsals that Ashley Hutchings (ex that other great English folk-rock band Fairport Convention) held with the Irish band Sweeneys Men (Irvine, Moynihan and Wood) shortly after he left Fairport. Irvine and Moynihan decided not to join the other two and Wood’s wife Gay, and Tim Hart and Maddy Prior were then recruited and the name Steeleye Span chosen (from a song about a Lincolnshire waggoner). “Hark the Village Wait” was the first album. Many moons ago when I was teaching English in a country high school, I introduced Steeleye Span to my students. Their contemporary rock approach to the old British ballads and folk songs really helped to emphasize the timelessness of much of this tradition. And, finally, because it is always good to make the connection (and I think some time ago there was a thread creating links in six (?) steps) we can create a link with the lady herself: Ashley Hutchings, the founder of Steeleye Span, had been a member of Fairport Convention who were early supporters of Joni Mitchell, including several of her songs on their debut album in 1968. John. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 02:01:08 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends Wally Kairuz wrote: > yeah i remember that. she said something like "lord make him a good pinball > player and a good kisser please". i'm sure it was a musician magazine > interview. > wallyk Do you remember *your* favorite machine, When *you* were 18? And did you read *a* magazine, When you were *a* teen? Reason I ask? Taste from the flask And the mask of the man I must mean. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:24:09 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC... AWAY LIZ LURK ... albeit a Cruel Hoax really? i knew my invocations would bring me a blessing: my own anagram. and of course, leave it to burger. always. wallyk, who once existed as wallyburger - -----Original Message----- De: C. G. Para: Wally Kairuz CC: jmdl Fecha: Lunes 12 de Julio de 1999 02:42 Asunto: NJC... AWAY LIZ LURK ... albeit a Cruel Hoax really? >Here are anagrams of "wallykairuz": > > 1. A YAW LIZ LURK > 2. A WAY LIZ LURK > 3. AWAY LIZ LURK > >This means that "Leave It To Burger" is really LizTaylor=Betsy! Mystery >solved! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:16:13 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: Re: NJC Re: Joni and Tarot Musings C. G. wrote: > Hi Melinda! > Would you (or anyone else) be at all ... Melinda's OK'd it. I shall now -self-cause+poem to -self-com+pose: > > IX The =^= Cr = One > > > > With hER mag+i+nine, the Cr=^=One RE ... > > pREsents the inn=ER teach=ER ... RE, the silent is that is with in .AND. into > > She ably RE ... > > pREsents solitude, and ly RE ... > > pREsents simicity, choo-choo sing a path > > in utt=ER utt=ERness. > > > > Pi=Estess=Swords > > > > WatER .AND. AIR; RE ... > > pREsentingThinkingWomaningWisdoming flows. > > tRAditional ly, the "id+o," she is a=lone: > > but .NOT. necERness ARily cut : off. > > Li an On, she ARity .AND. inRIty: > > > > Hi, Joni lovERs! RE ... > > cent ly I was my REading, .AND. it came t > > +o me that the heARt of what Joni RE ...p > > RE sents taught me can b > > +e > > seen to be embodied > > in th es e tARot cARds I've D+scRIbed ab > > +ov(e).................................ov > > AR ... ER ... IR ... OR ... UR ... YR ... [WR] > > RA ... RE ... RI ... RO ... RU ... RY ... [RW] AR ER IR OR UR YR WR means Etymology Is Sacred .. .. .. .. .. .. .. means Breathing Is Sacred > > > > Any tarot readers in JMDL land? > > AR RE ER > > Blessed be, > > Melin + da* > > > > > > > > XI ***** xhohx .. Thanks for letting me learn. I'm still finding why "r" means cycle+circle+ring. *Melinda may be related to "mellifluous" and 'meli-' = honey, I'd guess, with "linda" adjoined? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:20:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: "Unplugged & Jamming" -- a vile bootleg? Ran across what appeared to be an obvious, but nonethless interesting bootleg CD in a used shop this weekend ... "Joni Mitchell -- Unplugged and Jamming." Yeah, so the title's cheesy as hell, but the programming includes her numbers from Last Waltz, as well as some cover tunes and early TV show appearances. Is this a well-known bootleg, and are better quality performances available through the tape trees ... needless to say, I didn't buy it. Asking price was 24.99. Simon, are you there? ;-) Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:25:04 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends ? At 2:01 AM -0700 7/12/99, C. G. wrote: >Reason I ask? >Taste from the flask >And the mask of the man >I must mean. ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:39:19 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends Hi Mark, I meant myself ... and the self generally. As for flask, I meant the taste of my own words ... truth ... "reason." So, why was I looking at *a* magazine for *me*? Simplicity? Complexity? Why do we seem to need mirrors, when the mean = the meaning? Chris G. Mark Domyancich wrote: > > ? > > At 2:01 AM -0700 7/12/99, C. G. wrote: > >Reason I ask? > >Taste from the flask > >And the mask of the man > >I must mean.___________________________ > | Mark Domyancich | > | Harpua@revealed.net | > | home.revealed.net/Harpua | > |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:49:35 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends C. G. wrote: > > >Taste from the flask Perhaps it's because we taste, we sense, we consume "otherness"? "Well, surely you touched mine, 'Cause part of you flows out o' me In these lines from time to time ... Oh! You're in my blood, you're my holy wine, You taste so bitter, and so sweet! Oh I, could drink, A Case Of You-- darlin' And I would still be on my feet, I would still, be on my feet ... mmhmm mm hmmmhmm, mmhmm mmm mm-m!" She says it so much better, man. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:57:00 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends Clark-the Tarot and clairvoyance etc can hardly be described as New Age!! They ahve been around eons. I agree with you though about much New Age philosphy. It can be as fundie as any other 'religion' and attract the power freaks too just as the other fundies stuff does too. However, the situations you describe are the result of human falibilty not the result of Tarot or Clairvoyance. It is people who have these gifts and people who decide whether to use them for good or ill. It is vital that one is on good terms with the self and 'god' and be able to be honest with one's self. many 'prophets' of many persuasions have proved to be wrong and some to be right. The recipients of any message should really weigh it up, decide for themselves and do as their free will dictates. I would also add that a message that is not backed up by evidence(ie information known to you to be accurate-like details about a passed over loved one that is factual and not known by the message giver by ordinary means), should be weighed very carefully indeed. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:11:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - July 12 1983: Joni performs at the CNE Bandshell in Toronto. A setlist and review by James Leahy can be found at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Toronto83.html 1993: (from Wally's bio): [Today], Joni made an appearance at the Beverly Hilton in Hollywood at comic legend Milton Berle's 86th birthday party. She sang "Night Ride Home" in front of a roomful of comedians and Hollywood legends. See a few photos at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/BerleBirthday93.html 1994: (from Wally's bio): The supermarket rag "The Globe" had this headline in [today's] issue - "Songbird Joni Searches For Love Child She Had At 19." It was only that year that Joni had begun to talk about the child she gave up for adoption in 1965. Joni told "Vogue" magazine: "I had had a child, and I was broke, literally penniless. And I met Chuck Mitchell, and he said he would take us on. I was kind of railroaded...we were never suitable. I went down the aisle saying 'I can get out of this.'" She did soon divorce Chuck, after she'd also given up her daughter for adoption. - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:34:05 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: Am I the only one who believes in "Ana-mancy"? People, Am I the only one who thinks that anagrams of our names have a special significance, at least to a person reading their own, precisely because that person brings so much self-knowledge and thus significance to the 'adjustments' and 'substitutions' of Meaning which the PROCESS of reading anagrams takes one through?? They are generated by our computers in such a way that one word or more is held constant while the changes are smaller, until a new "base"/"root" word 'surfaces" and faces one's mildly perplexed and inquisitive and amused state (I find). Thus, it's an art of meaning, a de-structured + re-self-structuring poem, in a cascade through one's comprehension? For example, Tarot cards are pictorially like archetypes and mythic identities which one can readily relate to, without needing too much in the way of language or rhythm from the cards as the source, but gets that info from the human, the diviner. During both, the PROCESS of moving from one State to the next is a Process we can identify with deeply, right? And yet anagrams 'Open' paths of meaning which are AND are not like transitioning through psychological and mythological states. That "AND" means that "I" must supply significance to the process, right? Esp. if the anagrams are quickly flowing ... line upon line upon line. So is it understandably a preference regarding the degree of creativity brought to the Weighing Process, as Colin you've just said I think, though perhaps you meant some even greater possibilities when you said "will"? Or, with anagrams, is the degree of freedom that is Tied To An Algorithm after all (!), simply tangential ... and ... too twiggy? :-) ... Or too much, as the mountain is beautiful but one cannot fathom its weight? "First there is a mountain! Then there is no mountain, Then there is! Oh, Juanita! Oh, Juanita! Oh, Juanita! I call your name!" --Donovan Chris, thinking I'm better off on branches than twigs! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:25:58 EDT From: RADJSHARP@aol.com Subject: The Three Great Stimulants Dear All: As a card carrying lurker, I regret this question but you may be able to help. Two of our daughters were recently defined in an email as being "the good-looking one" and "the great personality one." Of course the daughter with great personality is looking for some affirmation that great personality will serve her better in the long run than good looks. I would like to respond in a fatherly way i.e. showing concern for both daughters for the near and far term, and I wonder [as I search for good response], whether the List has ever attacked the Three Great Stimulants from an interpersonal standpoint. Artifice, brutality and innocence, while they may be self-stimulating, rarely stimulate others favorably. I am wondering what it is in us that stimulates others in a favorable way and I am loathe to direct the discussion by even throwing out suggestions. What in your experience would you tell your daughters are the three great stimulants that define us favorably toward others? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, Bob [not Dylan, who was in concert in St. Louis this past weekend with Paul Simon] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:09:38 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: "Unplugged & Jamming" -- a vile bootleg? Don, I'm no expert in the field, but here's what I know: There's actually Vol. 1 & 2 of "Unplugged & Jamming" it's very good stuff! I have a great copy of Vol. 1 on CD (not a purchased bootleg) but I don't as yet have a rundown of what the origins of the songs are...It does have a live version of "Yvette" which is a rarity... Vol. 2 I have on cassette, I'm sure that better copies are out there being traded in Joniland. I do, however, have a listing of what's on it, and for me the highlight is the Johnny Cash/Joni stuff. Johnny was obviously smitten with Joni and also was aware of her immense talents...he keeps calling her a "pretty little thing", she does BSN, The Gallery, and they duet on a couple of country songs, and she sounds great...she seems to cut loose more (even back then) when she's singing someone else's lyric, maybe she's not as concerned with being misunderstood or misjudged. Also on this collection are some Pete Seeger Duets and a nutty thing with Fred Neil called "The Dolphin Song". All in all, it's a very fun collection of tracks. It's not my decision, but this stuff should be treed ASAP to maintain the highest quality and the easiest general distribution. A lot of this material is historically important and significant to Joni fans... That's my story and I'm sticking to it... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:45:55 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: i couldn't resist I couldn't resist: I bought that Hinton Joni Mitchell book. I found it cheap in a used bin, and I soooo wanted a book on Joni Mitchell. Even a bad one. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:51:54 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Demo Hissing Paul C. wrote: "I had also been waiting a while for the dust to settle on the 'Hissing of Summer Lawns' demo but can wait no longer. I can't tell you how much I would love to hear this and, again, would be happy to be a CD-cutting branch for the Europeans (or anyone really). " I am chomping at the bit to get my ears on this one. I would be happy to burn some cd's for anyone who gets a good copy of this demo. Where did this originate anyway, does any one know? Simon? Cheers, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:01:59 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: The Three Great Stimulants NJC Bob relates: << Two of our daughters were recently defined in an email as being "the good-looking one" and "the great personality one." Of course the daughter with great personality is looking for some affirmation that great personality will serve her better in the long run than good looks.>> Boy, this gripes my butt!! Why do people insist on "defining" our kids (and us for that matter) and having to differentiate this way? As a result, we have kids who at a very young age, believe they: A. Aren't attractive; B. Aren't artistic; C. Don't do well in school; D. Don't/Can't make friends And the list goes on & on...I'm sure all of us have been "branded" similarly at some point in our lives, unfortunately usually in childhood. I'm sure as a parent you will help your daughters in their "search for truth and beauty". <> The first three great stimulants that come to my mind in terms of stimulating others are Kindness, Compassion, and Grace. In a nutshell, doing for others that which you don't HAVE to do...of course, ultimately you have to be yourself and not concerned what others may think. My thoughts, per your request, Bob (not Dylan and/or not you) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:09:27 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Friends have come to find they can't be friends Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:07:37 -0500 From: Melinda Everett CarltonCT@aol.com wrote: > Hey JMDLers - > > Feel like I have been away from all of you for too long, but I've been > meeting a deadline. I've read a lot of posts in the past in which some of us > describe ROSES BLUE as their least favorite track from CLOUDS, but it's > always been an important song to me: Joni's portrait of someone who gets in > too deep on New Age beliefs. > > I've just seen too many friendships, businesses and relationships get > destroyed when people took a tarot reading or clairvoyant prophecy as truth. > Clark--a very powerful message. Thanks for speaking up. It does seem that a lot of people who get into the whole "New Age" thing think it's a superior path, as if they are no longer as human as others. Such a shame. I worked at a "New Age" shop--and the experience was total hell. The owners were such control freaks. There were so many power issues, and all going on behind this facade of "Oh, we're so spiritual, we're so peaceful and enlightened . . . " and it was really just f*(#ed up. > Colin's right -- the magic comes from within. I love looking at the > pictures of the Rider Tarot deck, but it's better to look through the whole > deck and pick out the ones which have meaning for you on any given day rather > than accept the ten random ones which are dealt to you. D'accord about the beauty inside (isn't this phrase in a song somehwere?) After I came out of the experience at the New Rage shop, I started getting into Joni. I mentioned Woman of Heart and Mind before, and it also applies here, because in the very song Joni says, "All this talk about holiness now must be the start of the latest style, is it all books and words or do you really feel it do you really laugh do you really care do you really smile when you smile?" THat line really said it for me. I mean, she really calls people on their bullshit, you know? She's brave, strong, and bold, and authentic, and her spirituality is authentic. That's what I admire about her and what inspires me. If it doesn't move you, say it don't, question authority! YOu go, girl! and a lot of her songs are to me about her personal journey, her telling it like it is for her. THat's what those cards I mentioned in my last message seem to me to be about. Oh and then on FTR in Barangrill she sees the waitresses as enlightened--because they're just into their lives, just chatting it up, being themselves. The beauty within--just be yourself! Very cool. Because all the "guru books" can't do it for you. > Given my own skeptical nature, I make the assumption that Joni is as much of > a skeptic as I am. "Advice and religion you can't take them, you can't seem > to believe them." Then again, she mentions saying a little prayer at the > moment Klein asked her to play video games at the Santa Monica pier. > Being on your own path involves skepticism, you have to really be willing to check what you read out with your voice within to see if it does it for you. I know Joni's into or was into the I Ching--the recent post about a painting (Abundance and Decline), the line about the hexagram of the heavens (so gorgeous). But at a basis, what I really love about Joni is her courage to accept what calls to her and reject what doesn't. Roses Blue is a song I really love, too, for it points to all the dangers of what the New Age "Magic" can generate. Thanks again, Clark. Melinda ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Don't grab my hand don't stand in my way I'll read the stars by night and the cards by day And when the Wheel goes 'round and the story is told Well it was all for a dream of a River of Gold." ~~Eliza Gilkyson~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:26:00 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Demo Hissing Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:05:41 -0400 From: lisa durfee michael paz wrote: > 'Hissing of Summer Lawns' demo ...... Where did > this originate anyway, does any one know? Cheers, > > Michael I dont know, but Brian Gross very generously gave me a copy of this when we met at the JoniSJAzz concert (thanks again Brian!!)and it is quite unique in that Jonis voice sounds very pre-FTR to me on some songs. Maybe my walkman plays a bit fast or something, but it has this wonderful time-warped quality to it --Joni doing "edith" in an almost LOTC voice. liså D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:31:44 -0700 From: "C. G." Subject: Re: The Three Great Stimulants NJC Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com wrote: > The first three great stimulants that come to my mind in terms > of stimulating others are Kindness, Compassion, and Grace. In a > nutshell, doing for others that which you don't HAVE to do...of > course, ultimately you have to be yourself and not concerned > what others may think. > > My thoughts, per your request, > Bob (not Dylan and/or not you) I have two daughters and readily concur. I also feel that *Determination* is important -- learning the ability to see things through, with patience, while maintaining consideration for others, if even by negotiating. Determination comes via En+Courage+ment along the lines *they* decide they're interested in pursuing. Works well for my boys, too! #5 would be Listening -- it "stimulates" them to form their own thoughts more clearly when I listen! I'm into words and word-choices and am fortunate to live with a Trained Listener whose advice is always valuable. Lastly, learning to turn Negatives into Positives is a hard skill to acquire (for me, anyway!) but is also a great stimulator of Creative Juices. I try not to generalize w/ my kids on stuff like this ... they seem to do better with specifics than abstractions at this point. Have I made mistakes, such as you've pointed out? With chagrin: "Yes." "Lots" Hope that helps! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:30:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Aimee Mann (NJC) - --- Jason Long wrote: > Although I don't recall too much discussion about > her in the past, I do > remember having seen Aimee Mann mentioned a few > times, so in case anyone > here is a fan of hers, I thought I would mention > that there is a great > article about her in today's issue of the New York > Times Magazine. Thanks Jason, this was really great ... in a brutal sort of way that has become so typical of insanity running amok in the music industry. Don Rowe np: "My Secret Place" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:42:04 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Demo Hissing Bounced Message wrote: > Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:05:41 -0400 > From: lisa durfee > > I dont know, but Brian Gross very generously gave me a copy of this when > we met at the JoniSJAzz concert (thanks again Brian!!) Well, well. Here I was sitting right in front of you and Brian, you're the newbie, I'm the oldie, and you get the tape! I'm jealous! Jerry np: Puccini and Pasta ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:06:20 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: lightbulb humor (NJC) Q: How many Internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1,343 *1 to actually change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed; *14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently; *7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs *27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs *53 to flame the spelling/grammar critics *1 to correct the spelling and grammar in the spelling/grammar flames *6 to argue whether it's "light bulb" or "light bulb" *156 to write to the list administrator about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list *109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take this email exchange to lightbulb-list 203 to demand that cross posting to grammar-l, spelling-l and illuminati-l about changing light bulbs be stopped *111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this mail list *306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty *27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs *14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and to post the corrected URL's *3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list *33 to link all posts to date, then quote them (including all headers and footers) and then add "Me too" *12 to advise the list that they are unsubscribing because they are upset with the light bulb controversy *19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three" *4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ *44 to ask what is "FAQ" *4 to ask "Didn't we go through this a short time ago on Usenet?" *143 to ask "what's Usenet?" Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:07:08 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Demo Hissing I've noticed that too. Her voice sounds a lot like that on LOTC, very breezy and full of life. I wonder why her voice didn't sound like that on the final cuts? At 11:26 AM -0600 7/12/99, Lisa Durfee wrote: > > I dont know, but Brian Gross very generously gave me a copy of this when >we met at the JoniSJAzz concert (thanks again Brian!!)and it is quite >unique in that Jonis voice sounds very pre-FTR to me on some songs. Maybe >my walkman plays a bit fast or something, but it has this wonderful >time-warped quality to it --Joni doing "edith" in an almost LOTC voice. > ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:16:06 +0100 From: Christopher Dainty Subject: out of the dark lurking over...... catman wrote "march would be OK".... count me in What should we bring ? Chris D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:30:17 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: trip-hop joni Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:20:08 +0100 From: Martin Giles Jason wrote : I was listening to The Bridge I Burned, one of the "new" tracks on Elvis Costello's 1997 compilation of his Warner years - "Extreme Honey". It completely blew me away, with its use of modern "trip-hoppy" beats, fragmented chords and disjointed-but-tuneful melodies. It just sounded so fresh allied to Costello's distinctive vocals, a voice which I'd grown accustomed to hearing in other suroundings....The Costello track instantly led to me wondering why Joni has shown no sign of embracing the same kind of ingredients into her current work....Personally, the idea of such a combination between Joni and current technology/production/song construction, is endlessly appealing. Reaction No.1 Bleeeeaarrrrghghhhhh!! Reaction No.2 A few days ago, I posted something along the lines of, "I prefer Joni when she is just singing and playing guitar by herself, other musicians seem to dilute her impact." This was after getting copies of the JMDL tape tree videos, and seeing her perform solo, songs that I only previously knew as band renditions. I was struck by how much more I focused in when she played solo. Looking back, I now see why I never took to DED as much as some other albums - it was because the production techniques were so attention grabbing. The idea of Joni's songs being constructed of slowed down drum loops, DJ scratching and whacky sampler filtering strikes a chill in my soul. Truly a DED of the late nineties. You may like it, or you may not -I personally would not!! Jason, no offense intended - I'm only expressing my personal taste, I actually quite like a lot of the stuff that comes from that techo/trip-hop/drum and bass school - For instance do you know Cold Cut's 'Let Us Play' Album, or Art Of Noise's just released 'The Seduction Of Claude Debussy'? Both favorites of mine. But damn it all! Everything in its place don't you know. ;-) Martin. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #305 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. 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