From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #298 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, July 8 1999 Volume 04 : Number 298 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Some Lost Goodies [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] Re: Song to a Seagull [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: joni dress-ups [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni's Jazz ["Lisa Peakes" ] Re: vh1 Vote [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Carly Simon Info and a freebie too!! (NJC) [catman ] Camels? [Ginamu@aol.com] RE: Furry Sings the Blues ["patrick leader" ] Re: Stormy Weather CDs and the generation gap [Phyliss Ward ] JJ photos [Deb Messling ] Re: Stormy Weather CDs and the generation gap (LJC) [Deb Messling ] Amelia ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Re: NJC Tim Curry [catman ] Re: Amelia ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: Amelia ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: STAS - vinyl variations [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: "Annual" (NJC) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: STAS - vinyl variations ["Kakki" ] Re: Amelia [CaTGirl627@aol.com] joy askew/summerstage (VLJC) [Bounced Message ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:42:49 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Some Lost Goodies Jim wonders: <> No dream - this really happened and exists on the JMDL video tape trees - not sure which one, but I saw the Cavett clip just a couple weeks ago with Mr. and Mrs. Catgirl... It's evident that Mr. Cavett was in awe of her talents even then... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:14:03 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull In a message dated 7/6/1999 5:39:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << When some of us were off to the first night of the tapings, we thought of bringing some items to be autographed on the off-chance we'd get to meet her. My first choice was to take my STAS vinyl album but I didn't want to be hauling around something so large and unwieldy, so I threw the Clouds CD in my purse at the last minute. We did get to meet her after the show and I was almost embarrassed to present it to her, worried that she'd think I had not evolved too far. She even kind of smirked a little at it. O.K. so it wasn't Hejira ;-) but those early songs are so in my blood, I could not leave them behind if I wanted to. Kakki >> Oh I agree! STAS , LOTC, and Clouds are simply beautiful!! The songs take me away to a far off land. They are some of the most gorgeous songs I have eve heard! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:18:07 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: joni dress-ups In a message dated 7/6/1999 8:32:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ATAKATS@ninenet.com.au writes: << Thanks Catgirl and others who've responded to my dress-up post! Got the cruddy old nylon string guitar to take....think I can do the clothes thing...as for the hair...mine being long and dark, dark brown...think the wig is a MUST. I was thinking about joni's hair, looking at some pics of her, she never really did the dye thing did she?? she's always been beautifully blonde (moi so jealous ;) Anyway...I'll let you know how I go. Ange Sydney >> Just dont for get the CIGARETTES!! Catgirl...anyone know which brand she smokes??? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:24:52 -0400 From: "Lisa Peakes" Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz < my hand, as she graciously did with the other "first row-ers". In a very > bubbly voice she said, "We're having such a great time here tonight, huh? > We're sure keeping the rain at bay!" What a moment for me. She is such a > lovely person. > > The entire night was completely indescribable.......when it was over I walked up fifth avenue toward my > bus like a deer caught in the headlights. I was just glazed over and goofy > looking, but contented and satisfied in the deepest part of my heart.>> Thanks, Frances, I love glimpses like this! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:19:17 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: vh1 Vote In a message dated 7/6/1999 9:02:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Johnwe2@AOL.com writes: << Be sure to vote for JM at VH1.com, 100 greatest women of rock. they also have some info on Joni >> How do we vote? Cat... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 23:26:56 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Carly Simon Info and a freebie too!! (NJC) If anyone could get this for me and post it to England I would be grateful. i could record them a cd in return or something. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:32:18 -0400 From: "Lisa Peakes" Subject: Re: back in town NJC "Congraduations" (!?!) on your exams > < I visited one week ago. Well, to tell you the sad truth, it was very > disappointing. The concert was a triple bill of said Bulgarian Choir, > Tuvan throat singing group "Hun Huur Tu" and a curious "Moscow Art > Trio". And they made the biggest mistake they possibly could make > -- they mixed their different folkloristic backgrounds into one big > kitschy mishmash of sounds.>> I saw this bill and it was pretty good - each had some solo time, and when they performed together, I didn't care for it. The weak link for me was the 'Moscow' trio. And those beautiful costumes (the ones the Tuvan men had, especially) Did you notice the tiny carved horses' heads on the peg heads of their stringed instruments? Horses are an important part of Tuvan culture, and I kept thinking of American "cowboy" music and how the Tuvan stuff sounded like it - However, "Blue Yodel" and the uttered gutterals of "Throat Singing" don't bear much resemblance to one another. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:28:27 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Camels? In a message dated 7/7/99 6:20:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CaTGirl627@aol.com writes: > Just dont for get the CIGARETTES!! > Catgirl...anyone know which brand she smokes??? I don't think Joni's smoking Camels these days but didn't I read an interview or article not too long ago where she talks about saving packages of Camel Lights to redeem for a set of camel lights? You know, little plastic camels all in a row on a string, to hang on the patio? I remembering chuckling at how down-to-earth this made her appear. Gina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:29:09 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Furry Sings the Blues hey david, i'm glad you started a discussion about this song, which i love dearly. i think joni's point of view is very clear, as steve has described it, somewhat embarrassed to be a rich white woman presuming to judge this blues legend, and yet judging anyway, weighing the beauty and the imperfection. steve wrote: >I always >think of "Furry" as "Son of For Free", Joni contrasting her fame >and affluence with under-appreciated musicians an excellent insight, and this theme does run through her music and words. in an earlier discussion of 'the boho dance', i believe it was suggested that she was mocking the hypocrisy of the stance (as the book does). i don't think so, i think she's just saying that the costume never fit her. not condemning others, just observing herself. 'but even on the scuffle, the cleaners crease was in my jeans'. sometime between hissing and night ride home, she spoke about the difficulty of writing to connect with a large audience because of her affluence. 'i'm a wealthy la homeowner, etc." i wish i could dig up the quote. i think in the context of 'hejira' which is awfully universal, it was brave to point out, 'i am different from you' and brilliant to weave it into the context of 'furry'. about the music: david: >>And I think that there's an odd tension or instability between the >>music, which is relatively down-tempo and loose and with a slow harmonic >>rhythm (i.e., less frequent chord changes), and this rapid-fire lyric >>overload, with its barrage of images, that for me doesn't work; >it's like the >>lyrics and music are pulling in two different directions. then steve>I think the tension is deliberate. i agree with steve on this, too. also, i think the contrast between slow harmonic rhythm and rapid-fire lyric overload is a good working definition of the whole album, more than any she's ever done and i think for many, appreciation for hejira is proportional to appreciation for that method of song construction. you wrote >the music (the chord changes) is dense, too, though in a different way from the lyrics - -- kind of murky. Some of the chord changes in the other songs, by contrast, each sound fresh and clear and give the song direction -- 'amelia' where every chord change has a kind of wonder for me that is just practically luminous. well, i think there's a subjective taste here, i know more than one jmdler who finds amelia boring (not that i do, but it is very sparse). personally, i find the chord changes on refuge and song for sharon to be, oh, i don't know, murky, less than perfect. refuge sounds too obviously like the last song on an album, and not in the best sense. and song for sharon just suffers for coming after hejira, where each interval has a wonder that still puts me in a trance, after all these years. i like refuge and sharon; they maintain the unbelievable standard of wordsmithing on that album but the music leaves me a little cold. patrick, heading out to catch a bite than expecting to come back for a listen to hejira (except, i have to finish a tape for a jmdler!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 15:45:24 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Stormy Weather CDs and the generation gap Thanks Randy! I will give my plug for this incredible CD. I thought I was just getting mine for the Joni cut but I fell in love with the whole thing. My sister was visiting recently and she loved it too so I'm going to get a copy for her, hopefully from this guy. Some interesting notes about my older sister. She is the same age as Joni and her name is Roberta Joy (as in close to Roberta Joan). She was never into the same music as I and I just saw her as a different generation since she is significantly older(12 years). But just recently it dawned on me that she and Joni are the same age and that made me wonder a little about the timing. I know she was into Johnny Mathis and early rock and roll. I used to play her 45's and dance around. I particularly remember "Chantilly Lace" She obviously loves the old standards which is what attracted her to Stormy Weather. So I guess my question is...What is the cutoff or dividing age for people who were into "rock" or "hippie" music ala Joni etc.? I also find it interesting that her 25 year old daughter and my 21 year old daughter-in-law to be both love Joni and have her CD's. So the generation gap thing doesn't apply anymore. Comments? Randy Remote wrote: > I have happened upon someone with a stash of "Stormy Weather" > CDs for sale. - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 18:58:39 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: I fell in with some jimdlers... I fell in with some jmdlers and wow, was I surprised, they were all so witty, had joni mitchell eyes I fell in with some jmdlers and marched along the road I though looking for a child of God but this was what I was told: when you fall in with some jmdlers you are hanging with the best; no matter where we walk each year we're destined for Ashara's annual Joni Fest. with apologies to every poet who every lived, and don't get mad at Lisa because she inspired this doggerel... (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:52:48 -0500 From: pattihaskins@mindspring.com Subject: NJC-brain dead Hi All, Patti "brain dead in the morning" Haskins here, Don't you love the way I say to "Drop me a line privately if you wish for any/all of the above." and then I go and send the message through a different program than I usually use and it not only gets bounced but also doesn't show who its from???????? I'll get the hang of this stuff eventually. I only work with computers all day everyday and still I manage to *&%$ up!! If Stephen Stills performs in the Gretsch booth and/or at any of the other functions during the convention, I'll be sure to let you know. The last time I went to this show, a few years back, I saw some amazing guitar picking, especially Phil Keaggy. Mindblowing, just mindblowing. Later, Patti Haskins ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 18:05:23 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: Camels? She smokes American Spirits, which are organic and don't contain any crap that's found in other cigarettes. They're very nice. ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| - ---------- >From: Ginamu@aol.com >To: CaTGirl627@aol.com, Joni@smoe.org >Subject: Camels? >Date: Wed, Jul 7, 1999, 5:28 PM > > In a message dated 7/7/99 6:20:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > CaTGirl627@aol.com writes: > >> Just dont for get the CIGARETTES!! >> Catgirl...anyone know which brand she smokes??? > > > I don't think Joni's smoking Camels these days but didn't I read an interview > or article not too long ago where she talks about saving packages of Camel > Lights to redeem for a set of camel lights? You know, little plastic camels > all in a row on a string, to hang on the patio? I remembering chuckling at > how down-to-earth this made her appear. > > Gina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:29:16 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: JJ photos In case folks don't check Wally's site as obsessively as I do, he's put up (under NEWS) the lovely photo of Joni that ran in the NY Times last week. There is also a nice shot courtesy of new JMDLer Lisa Durfee. Thanks Lisa! for your photo and your great first post. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:38:51 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Stormy Weather CDs and the generation gap (LJC) I'm not going to generalize just from my family, but my brother, 53, was the first sibling to be **reliably** into "rock" and "hippie" music. The eldest, who would have been 59 this August, had a mad passion for Julius LaRosa and Mary Martin, later developed a taste for the early 60s folk stuff (Kingston Trio, Joan Baez) and much later, thanks to her baby sister, she developed a taste for Joni. And BTW, I like Mary Martin, too. Phyllis said: >I know she was into Johnny >Mathis and early rock and roll. I used to play her 45's and dance >around. I particularly remember "Chantilly Lace" She obviously loves >the old standards which is what attracted her to Stormy Weather. So I >guess my question is...What is the cutoff or dividing age for people who >were into "rock" or "hippie" music ala Joni etc.? Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:03:08 +0200 From: "Tube" Subject: NJC Tim Curry Tim Curry? Having been away, I didn't get the beginning of this thread, but just to say that I first saw Tim Curry in the second series of Rock Follies on British TV in 1977, in which he played a mega-prat, ultra-hyped ageing rock superstar called Steve Streeter (I think). That show also starred Beth Porter, a Canadian who used to be known as 'the poor man's Barbra Steisand'. She could sing, act, joke and rock a little and had a lot of attitude which was a new thing for women performers in the seventies. Since the 70's she's settled in England and now I think owns a web-design consultancy of all things. I met her once when I worked for a printer in Notting Hill Gate and had the pleasure of designing a business card for her for a TV production company she was trying to set up. She freaked when I recognised her and she yelled out loud in the shop "I've got a fan! I've got a fan!" I liked her a lot. Abut that time Tim Curry did an album called 'Read my Lips', which sank without trace here in England (I'm in Italy now but I still think of myself as being in England when I write about the past, it's easier on the grammar!) I love Tim in every movie he does, and even under the incredible prosthetic makeup in Ridley Scott's Legend his screen presence is awesome in the role of Darkness (A sort of Devil character). By the way, if you live stateside, try to hire a copy of the BRITISH cut of that movie, it's far superior to the American cut which was dumbed down and sexed up for an american teen audience. Joan Jett? While in the States last month I wanted to see a 'where are they now?' cable TV show about her, but I forgot to tune in the next night and missed it. So where IS she now? Tube ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 20:05:36 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Amelia I happen to love "Amelia" but still haven't quite "gotten it". I understand (I think) that she's comparing her obsessive love of music to Amelia Eirhart's obsession with flying. I get that she has accepted the jeers of those who don't appreciate her and persevered anyway (like Amelia)BUT WHAT WAS THE FALSE ALARM????Maybe I'm totally wrong and this song is about men...Amelia had just about as much luck in that dept as Joni. I LOVE the line "And looking down on everything, I crashed into his arms" which does make me kind of think this is about men. Can anyone help me? (I'm not as deep as some of you in here-sorry for my ignorance everyone, but I've only been actually trying to figure her lyrics out for a couple of years or so) - -Jenny CT np Furry sings the Blues ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 01:11:59 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC Tim Curry > By the way, if you live stateside, > try to hire a copy of the BRITISH cut of that movie, it's far superior to > the American cut which was dumbed down and sexed up for an american teen > audience. Hey! Tube, it's usually my job to stick my foot in it and insult the colonials! > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:19:08 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Amelia I get that she has accepted the > jeers of those who don't appreciate her and persevered anyway (like > Amelia)BUT WHAT WAS THE FALSE ALARM???? Specifically I think the song is about a breakup. More generally I think it is about searching for something - love, happiness, fulfillment, glory - and being ultimately frustrated by wrong turns & dead ends. Are the six jet planes really the hexagram of the heavens, some kind of sign pointing the way to fulfillment? No, they're just a false alarm. Is the drone of those flying engines calling you to find what you seek by wandering from place to place? Nope. Just another false alarm. Will leaving your present circumstances and travelling to those places people have gone to & are telling you to go to bring you the happiness you want? No, it's just another false alarm. Will the arms you crashed into when the overwhelming feeling you felt when you looked down on everything keep you safe and make you happy? Guess again. Another false alarm. Is there some answer in fulfilling that dream to fly? Not for Amelia. She was swallowed by the sky or the sea. No answer there, just another false alarm. Finally the dreams of 747's over geometric farms are just a symptom of your wanderlust and don't really mean anything. They're all just dreams, dreams & false alarms. Just one take. I'm sure you'll get many more! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:13:47 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Amelia Mark! What an incredibly enlightening interpretation! I always had a very intuitive approach to this song -- which I love to distraction -- but now I feel I understand it so much more deeply. Thanks for the input. WallyK >Just one take. I'm sure you'll get many more! > >Mark in Seattle > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:38:37 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: STAS - vinyl variations In a message dated 7/7/1999 1:19:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << The one I originally bought in the 60s has the following exactly engraved in the run-out: (Side One) 30753RS629A - 1H and (Side Two) 30754RS6293B - 1G The mint one that sounds so incredible has the following: (Side One) RS6293 30754-4 and (Side Two) T BS6293(30753)-3 I know this is kind of nerdy but I would really appreciate any more information if anyone knows. Thanks, Kakki >> Very interesting Kakki! I have the same record of your mint one. It has the exact same number on it. HOWEVER, I also have a Japanese Import that I bought in 1977 with this number on it.... side 1 P-8099R1 side 2 P-8099R2 Interestly enough when I look at both records side by side, the colors are much more vibrant on the Jap pressing then on the American. As well, where the seagulls make out the words on the cover, the jap im-port is missing more then the american pressing. I have her first 4 albums on Japanese pressing. The sound is amazing! I like them so myuch I think I will put them on CD and then them away for safe keeping. Does anybody even know what the numbers mean? Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:46:18 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: "Annual" (NJC) In a message dated 7/7/1999 7:23:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ashara@aol.com writes: << .DOES NOT mean this is an ANNUAL gathering!!!!! (Just you wait, Michael Paz, just you wait....I've got my old lady cane out for YOU!!!) Hugs, Ashara {laughing my tush off!} >> OH comon' Ashara...If we all say PLEASE real nice and help to clean up and everything couldn't we have just a small one next year? Ok I won't be that small just a few hundred people but you have a big house and you LOVE to entertain.... Catgirl...with all silent pleas.... ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:40:51 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: STAS - vinyl variations Catgirl wrote: > Very interesting Kakki! I have the same record of your mint one. It has the > exact same number on it. Joni minutiae synchronicity! > Interestly enough when I look at both records side by side, the colors are > much more vibrant on the Jap pressing then on the American. On my original album cover the colors all have a blue-greenish cast, but on the mint copy, the colors are all orange-ish yellow and the seagulls are more obvious. I don't quite know what the engraved numbers mean but hopefully will find out. Gee, this makes me think we need to come up with yet another group project - A Compendium of Joni Album Pressings ;-) Kakki, once a nerd, always a nerd ;-D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:50:13 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Amelia In a message dated 7/7/1999 9:24:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark-n-travis@worldnet.att.net writes: << d by the sky or the sea. No answer there, just another false alarm. Finally the dreams of 747's over geometric farms are just a symptom of your wanderlust and don't really mean anything. They're all just dreams, dreams & false alarms. Just one take. I'm sure you'll get many more! Mark in Seattle >> Great Take and I think I will keep it! Thanks Mark! Cat.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 22:57:42 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: joy askew/summerstage (VLJC) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 22:54:24 -0400 From: BarBearUh i know i'm a bit behind the band wagon on the summerstage thing, but i think patrick filled you in pretty well. all i can say is CHAKA! i saw her open for prince this year, but just hearing her do one joni cover was better than her entire show w/prince. she is such a professional and her covers were simply stupendous! the band's version of 'jungle line' was also tremendous (i liked it better than joni's version) and joy was terrific throughout. which brings me to the main reason i'm decloaking now. i know i emailed a few people on the jmdl about joy's website as a way of getting info about her upcoming show. she hasn't updated her site in quite sometime, so i wanted to forward the info she just emailed me - "The next show is something special - at Joe's Pub (Public Theatre) on August 3rd" [NYC]. BTW, she also mentioned how the show was one of the most special moments of her life and she seemed to think it was for joni, too. barbara np: HOSL ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #298 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?