From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #278 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, June 25 1999 Volume 04 : Number 278 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: A good artist copies but...NJC [MGVal@aol.com] Re: My Joni-free MRIs -- NJC [pattihaskins@mindspring.com] Re: Art Snobs/Brian Sewell NJC [catman ] Re: Mysteries was Art Snobs/Brian Sewell NJC [catman ] mix tapes NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: NJC: snobs, Connie, and pussycats ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: JoNi & eBaY [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: The snob over there ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: joni vs johnny rotten/Political Joni [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: You MIGHT be a snob if ... (NJC) ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: joni vs johnny rotten/Political Joni [Susan Chaloner I always say "Originality is the art of concealing one's sources". And who >here >knows whether I made that up myself or not? :-) That sounds like my mother hiding the "shake-n-bake" box in the garbage so I won't know the key to her famous pork chops.....(;-D MG - counting down, counting down ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:18:29 -0500 From: pattihaskins@mindspring.com Subject: Re: My Joni-free MRIs -- NJC Hi Lori, Sending good vibes your way, hoping for a successful surgery and easy recovery. I too have that dreaded scoliosis, fairly bad, 46degree curve, and when I go for xrays (chiro, ortho surgeon) I always warn them of the severity of the curve, yet they never seem to listen. I swear every time the technician tells me to stand up straight! I would if I could!! Thanks for the private email info and keep me posted as well. Patti Haskins ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:14:35 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Art Snobs/Brian Sewell NJC Martin Giles wrote: > > In JMDL Digest V4 #272- catman wrote.. > > > outrageous > > snob. i defy anyone to read his or listen to his reviews and not see > what a snob > > he is!> > > Haha, you defy me do you?? oh dear I was wondering if a Brit would do this! > > > Brian Sewell was someone that for a long, long time I couldn't cope with > because of his > outrageous 'plummy' accent. I still can't believe that its not put on, > in fact. And of course he insists he is not gay! > The funny thing > is though, that once I managed to get past how he sounds, I realized > that he is far from an art > snob. To me, he seems to spend quite a lot of time crying, "The King is > in the altogether....". > He is very conservative in his taste, and I don't always agree with him, > but its good to have > someone having a go at contemporary art's more peculiar manifestations > IMHO. He's also wickedly > funny at times. So, take that! BUT have you seen himinterviewed and the terrib;e things he says about the lower classes?! > > > As for your art history class, I know how you feel, I went to art > college and had the same experience. Most of my fellow students, and all > of the lecturers were scoring points all the time in a game called 'How > sophisticated am I?' It was a pain, and it put me off the whole thing. > > Knowledge is a weird thing though. I know a lot more about music than I > do about 'art', and I'm aware that if I knew as much about art as I do > music I would have completely different taste. I know that I react on a > very basic, gut level to art, (liking or disliking without really > knowing why). But with music, in addition to my gut reactions, I have a > whole layer of 'educated' reasons. I catch myself being very dismissive > of people who don't know anything about music and their consequently > primitive taste, I know nothing about music, I therefore have primitive taste, I love Joni. Oh so i get it now! Joni is liked by people who know nothing about music and have primitive taste! (and no I am not offended just amused!) > but know that I shouldn't because I'm on the other end > when it comes to the visual arts. The point is that I know that my > appreciation of music is all the deeper because of my greater knowledge, > and that if I had another go at learning something about art, I would > probably get as much from that too. > > (By the way, when I say I know a lot about music, I'm no professor - I'm > a recording engineer and an average guitarist. That's all.) > > Martin. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:16:32 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Mysteries was Art Snobs/Brian Sewell NJC What is the *real* title of joni's first album? (attention Paul and Simon -- this is a joke, please don't feel the need to send me the 25K bot response ...) ;-D LOL! No please, not again! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:18:54 +1000 (EST) From: michaelb@coolgold.com.au (Michael) Subject: Joni's Guitar Style Michael wrote .She seems to have become quite a lazy guitar player, maybe >relying on the warm full sound of the VG-8 to cover the >articulate playing she used to do.Sure artists do evolve but it seems >to me what her playing has become has not been a natural progression.> along with other things Victor wrote >> An album is just one musical statement. It doesn't encompass the artist. An artist of Joni's depth can pretty much do whatever she wants. I think you should cut her a little slack.<< I can see where you are coming from but my veiw point is coming from the way she has played her older songs in this new lazy kind of playing.I take DJRD as an example.It seems to me that the vg8 has influenced her into taking an "easy way out" with her guitar work. Helen wrote >>I was under the impression that Joni was having serious back and muscle problems (something I can sympathise with) as an after-effect of problems she had with polio as a child. So she not only has to use a very light guitar, but it is quite painful to play anything, let alone the complicated "articulate" songs she used to play. I may be wrong about this, but it would seem to be a reasonable reason for why her guitar playing has "simplified" over the last few years?"<< Sounds pretty reasonable Helen .I hadn't even taken that into consideration Howard wrote >>Her playing style certainly has changed - it has evolved steadily over the years, but I don't hear any radical difference in technique on TTT compared to TI.<< Yea there is no radical difference .I guess it has come to a point where it has really made me take notice and say to myself "I don't like what Joni is doing with her guitar in this song" Something I have never found myself saying before so I just had to ask around. Howard >>I don't think it's at all accurate to say that she's become "lazy" on the guitar because of the VG8 sound. I think her playing on this album is much the same as on TI and NRH. Do you find her playing on these albums lazy/simplified too?<< I guess it starts around those albums but only really came to my notice with TT7 and 8 and with the release of TTT.It sort has been a swelling undercurrent of my oponion since TTT was released and was reinforced by what was on TT8.I mean I still love waht she is doing but I know what it could be.Maybe I was born to late and should have been around to experience the early years. Cheers Michael http://www.coolgold.com.au/~michaelb/index.html michaelb@coolgold.com.au Either we are alone in the universe ...........Or we're not............ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:30:08 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: joni's take on punk & disco there was an article at the time of punk which reported that she attended some hooley or other and that she sat for most of the evening but lept to her feet when they put on some 60's Motown. Philip - the memory man NP Kate Rusby - Dark Eyed Sailor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:06:28 EDT From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: NJC - Bob Dylan / Joan Baez Greetings to the list (and what a list it is lately.....don't even start me on e-bay topic)......but here is : a response to recent post by Gina re: Bob Dylan, << I find Time Out Of Mind (his latest which won the Grammy) brooding and self-indulgent, I have to say that to this day he continues to write songs that suit his "non-singing" voice very well. That is a genius in and of itself.>> I am about to give this CD away myself. I don't get it. I do have to admit I replayed "Series of Dreams" twice in the parking lot of my job this a.m. and kept marveling at this incredible song and arrangement from Bootleg Series Vol.1-3. Plenty of people can't stand Bob's voice, especially at my household where I am ridiculed for enjoying him. Totally unrelated..... I know I am at the "Late Show" with the Joan Baez thread. I would like to suggest that people unfamiliar with her work check out some "non" greatest hits recordings. One Day At A Time -1969 - Vanguard is really worth checking out. IMHO. Lots of covers and a phenomenal song Sweet Sir Galahad written by Joan. Also another fave is "Live Europe 83" (Children of the Eighties) on Gamma label from Canada. This has a interesting song about Lady Di and ... surprise...more covers. Ok.....that's it for me, Joan is no Joni but definitely no slacker in my book. I saw her in 1983 and l she was incredible..from the second row at a small venue. Lucky for me..she was not all the rave at this time. take care, Maurice ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:45:06 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: joni vs johnny rotten/Political Joni In a message dated 6/24/99 2:29:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MGVal@aol.com writes: > Certainly with the > subject of feminism, she insists and insists that she is not one, yet reaps > the rewards and paves the way for women. I think of feminism as a political cause involving political *action*. Based on that definition, I don't think of Joni as a feminist. I've never thought of her as particularly political, in the sense that Joan Baez or even the likes of David Crosby were. (someone told me that they saw CSNY live once, and David Crosby marched on stage holding a flag of the Viet Cong...not sure if there is any merit to this story). I don't think of Joni as any more political than most of us...she writes what she is thinking about and in this way she reflects upon what is going on in the world around her. I don't think of that as political. Doesn't mean it isn't...it's just my opinion. You all take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:48:48 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: You Are Your Car/"Art snobs"NJC (correction) In a message dated 6/24/99 9:32:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ginamu@aol.com writes: > My 12 year old daughter, Meredith, who is bored to tears in a museum like the > > Met, recently accompanied us to our new MoMA here in Western Massachusetts. Geeeeeez...I don't know what I was thinking about but I meant to type MoCA - Museum Of Contemporary Art. Gina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:58:57 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: You MIGHT be a snob if ... (NJC) Don Rowe wrote: > Suggested that imagism is simply decadent ... > I think it is simply jejune. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:16:38 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC: Re: NJC Julius spoke of Joni: > Can't speak for her feeling on punk, but it's tough to imagine her diving > headlong into a mosh pit. She might get runs in her nylons..... Colin said: > Although I am aware it has other connotations, the term pussy is used a lot here > to refer to cats and nothing else! now I can't help it if you foreigners have > dirty minds! If this is true Colin, then why does the old lady in the British tv sitcom "Are You Being Helped?" constantly have a recurring joke when she refers to "stroking her pussy"? You meant it as a joke- confess! Confess.... or I'll fetch.... the comfy chair! - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** Tolerance, tolerance, tol... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:41:45 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: mix tapes NJC Some time ago several people were talking about making mix tapes and how they made their selections, how they sequenced them, etc. I ran across a playlist for a tape I made around 1982 or 83 that I called 'Rock and Roll Women'. This is how it went: A. 1. Janis Joplin - Down on Me 2. Debbie Harry (Blondie) - Rip Her to Shreds 3. Joni Mitchell - You're So Square 4. Chryssie Hynde (The Pretenders) - The Adulteress 5. Linda Ronstadt - Get Closer 6. Stevie Nicks - Edge of Seventeen 7. Grace Slick (Jefferson Airplane) - Somebody to Love 8. Marianne Faithful - Broken English 9. Joan Armatrading - When You Kisses Me 10. Patty Smith - 25th Floor 11. Ann & Nancy Wilson (Heart) - Mistral Wind B. 1. Linda Ronstadt - That'll Be the Day 2. Debbie Harry (Blondie) - Union City Blue 3. Grace Slick (Jefferson Airplane) - White Rabbit 4. Joan Armatrading - Eating the Bear 5. Janis Joplin - Piece of My Heart 6. Patti Smith - Dancing Barefoot 7. Christine McVie (Fleetwood Mac) - Spare Me a Little of Your Love 8. Joni Mitchell - Free Man in Paris (live version from Shadows & Light) 9. Chryssie Hynde (The Pretenders) - Mystery Achievement 10. Bette Midler - Stay With Me 11. Grace Slick (Jefferson Starship) - Hyperdrive I remember really putting a lot of thought and effort into making this tape and it was one of my favorite mix tapes (long gone, I'm afraid). Do you ever stumble across a perfect sequencing of two songs? I somehow managed to start 'Get Closer' at just the right moment after the last chord of 'The Adulteress' so that they seemed to fit together perfectly. On another tape I followed Judy Garland's rendition of 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow' from 'The Wizard of Oz' soundtrack with k d lang's 'Shadowland' and it's amazing how magically that works. Almost as good as 'People's Parties/The Same Situation'. I'd like to recreate this tape someday. However I'll either have to invest in a few more cds or get out the vinyl & fire up the turntable. There are quite a few of these I don't yet have on cd. Considering the time frame, who would other JMDLers have added to a tape titled 'Rock & Roll Women'? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:06:18 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: NJC: snobs, Connie, and pussycats Colin points out: << Although I am aware it has other connotations, the term pussy is used a lot here to refer to cats and nothing else! now I can't help it if you foreigners have dirty minds! Writing, like any artform, depends on what people read into it. & speaking of dirty American minds, I swear there is a prominent pussy painted on the cover of Mingus - & I think it's Joni's! ;~% E.T. NP: The Quest of JM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:10:28 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: mix tapes NJC In a message dated 6/24/99 10:44:22 PM Central Daylight Time, mark-n-travis@worldnet.att.net writes: << Considering the time frame, who would other JMDLers have added to a tape titled 'Rock & Roll Women'? >> Joan Jett...she was making pretty good waves about then..."Give Me Back My Man" by the B-52's would have to be on it...Bonnie Raitt fer sher...probably a whole lot more! Bob NP: Harry's House from PWWAM...thanx Chris, nice job!! :o) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:16:35 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: what's in a name... NJC Kay added: << Wow, Fonda Dicks. That's pretty incredible. Check this out: in the 6th grade, I had a sex ed teacher named Harry Ball. I kid you not. >> Well here's one 4 U. Can you IMAGINE growing up with the name Dick Butkis? You'd almost have to become a football player.... E.T. NP: PP ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:13:05 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: JoNi & eBaY In a message dated 6/24/1999 8:55:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kb420@webtv.net writes: << Everyone, you are all (with few exceptions) very nice, interesting people whom I would love to meet, trade with, and discuss things with, whether or not we agree on what is being discussed, but if I saw something on Ebay that I really wanted, I would bid against my own sainted Mother to get whatever it was. >> ..and if your Mom really wanted it I guess she would bid against you. Go for it Mama! Ifor one am not that kind of person. Frankly, sharing seems easier. There is always another book, another Cd, another Bootleg right around the corner. Why bid for it till it goes up to over $100.00. Who really wins? Are we bickering, debating or discussing? Depends on each individual's definition, does it not? And we are talking about Joni and her various items for auction at eBay. Or perhaps we should move on to penises & Joni . I am not into the penis topic. I think it is kinda silly. Why not call this the Joni on eBay discussion list and you can be head auctioneer...bring your wallet buddy there are almost 600 listers here! Anyone who bids a "ridiculous" price either deserves to lose their money, or does not find the price "ridiculous". Not everybody defines ridiculous the same as you, me, or Catgirl. That said, I agree that many of the prices are, IMO, ridiculous. At the same time, IMO, many gr8 bargains can be found as well. Well now that we will be doing regular postings about Joni on eBay, I really doubt if their will be anymore bargains...like I said befor I won't be winning anymore auctions on eBay and am just gr8ful I got what I did when I did. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:29:02 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: The snob over there Helen wondered: << Is there something in the atmosphere at the moment, that's affecting everyone? Lots of people here seems to be getting snippy, it's happening on the Lee-Shore too (the CSN list), and even my friends have been getting shitty over nothing. What's going on? >> Mark in Seattle offered: << Mercury must be in retrograde (again!). >> Perhaps it's because Saturn is SO close to Earth right now. Or maybe Nostradamus was right & the Messiah is due any day now.... We live in interesting times! E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:34:08 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: joni vs johnny rotten/Political Joni In a message dated 6/24/99 9:49:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ginamu@aol.com writes: << I don't think of Joni as any more political than most of us...she writes what she is thinking about and in this way she reflects upon what is going on in the world around her. I don't think of that as political. >> IN fact, Joni herself denies she is political. She says in the monologue "My American Skirt" that Canadians by their nature are not political. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:43:37 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: You MIGHT be a snob if ... (NJC) Don Rowe cracked: << I'm feeling inspired by Rev. Vince's HYSTERICAL post so in my best Jeff Foxworthy immpression, let me suggest that ... >snip< Ruined a friendship by expressing that, in your own humble opinion, M.C. Esher was merely a clever draftsman ... >> WOW! I absolutely adore M.C. Esher! We should do brunch & discuss graphic art over a bottle of Javex.... ;~D E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:45:30 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The snob over there (NJC) There's a Saturn in our driveway, what should we do? Travis of Mark or Travis in Seattle - ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Taylor To: JMDL Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 9:29 PM Subject: Re: The snob over there > > Helen wondered: > > << Is there something in the atmosphere at the moment, that's affecting > everyone? Lots of people here seems to be getting snippy, it's > happening on the Lee-Shore too (the CSN list), and even my friends have been > getting shitty over nothing. What's going on? >> > > Mark in Seattle offered: > > << Mercury must be in retrograde (again!). >> > > Perhaps it's because Saturn is SO close to Earth right now. Or maybe > Nostradamus was right & the Messiah is due any day now.... > We live in interesting times! > E.T. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:59:06 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: A good artist copies but...NJC < "A good artist copies but a great artist steals"? > [Did Picasso really say this?] Martin waxes profoundly: << I always say "Originality is the art of concealing one's sources". And who here knows whether I made that up myself or not? :-)>> Solomon said: "There is nothing new under the sun" & art critics should contemplate these timeless words of wisdom. :<& E.T. P.S. Someone just emailed me this: "To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:11:09 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: The snob over there (NJC) Mark or Travis wrote: > There's a Saturn in our driveway, what should we do? Look at the tires. If they are flat, it is too close to the Earth. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:15:04 -0700 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: joni vs johnny rotten/Political Joni IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > IN fact, Joni herself denies she is political. She says in the monologue "My > American Skirt" that Canadians by their nature are not political. When did she say that Paul? 1999 BC? And you're just gonna keep on a holdin' her to it, huh? Since I am mercury and I'm supposed to be retrograde would someone please quote this Joni to the Canadian I just had to throw back because he wouldn't stop talking politics and actually DO anything...BORING! I wanna real man like Paul Bunyan };~D Susan L.A. Honey Mcbabe-"...be nice kitty, kitty..."-that Joni :~) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #278 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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