From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #276 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, June 24 1999 Volume 04 : Number 276 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Voice and Talent (NJC) [Susan Chaloner ] Re: The snob over there ["Kakki" ] Re: Art Snobs NJC [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Joni and Ebay [Susan Chaloner ] Re: Return (NJC) ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: some songwriters can't sing (so what) (NJC) ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Radiant Undulance ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: jones & joan (very little JC) - now NJC ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Dianne Reeves CD (SJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: The snob over there [IVPAUL42@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:32:46 -0700 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: Voice and Talent (NJC) Kakki wrote: > I can't quite explain it - But when you are doing it right, you know it. Gee, couldn't you be more non-specific? > think I must have slipped back intuitively to how I was taught (properly) > years ago at some point and then immediately noticed the difference compared > with my current out of practice, "improper" way. ;-) Aha! You've been thrashing your chords again! ;~) Tsk! Tsk! If I were your manager I'd hijack you from your bed at 06:00hrs one fine morning and kick your sunkist ass into vocal therapy ;~D Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-"...Everything we got, we got the hard way..."-Mary Chapin Carpenter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:26:30 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: The snob over there Oh my Vince, I'm roaring!!! That one belongs in the JMDL Hall of Fame. Absolutely hilarious. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:42:54 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Art Snobs NJC In a message dated 6/24/99 12:23:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ewwtaylor@adelphia.net writes: << "Last night I watched The Pirates Of Silicon Valley on TNT & wonder what the art snobs think about Steve Jobs quoting Picasso, & Bill Gates quoting Van Gogh, as saying: "A good artist copies but a great artist steals"? >> Not wanting to tangle with the whole, "what is a snob" thread, I would like to give my opinion on the above quote. Not having seen the tv show and wondering if my answer makes any sense without knowing the context of the statement, I'd have to disagree. All artists borrow to some degree..but what exactly does "steal" mean? Totally lifting another's idea/image? If that's the case, then how does that make him great?? To me, the greater artist borrows, embellishes and integrates his own ideas, creating his own, individual art. There are few artists where I've not seen SOME influence of other artists in their work. And those that do steal..well..people who are aware of art history and the contemporary scene would surely not be fooled, would they? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:49:37 -0700 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: Joni and Ebay CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: > Catgirl....getting a little tired of all the bickering about everything...can > we now talk about Joni? I guess we could if everyone would honour all ways and get along... "...You might call me a dreamer but I'm not the only one..."-John Lennon On the other hand, Joni might have enough free bandwidth to span the Juan de Fucan and Georgian Straights of our Great Pacific Northwest without all our bickering Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-"...Imagine all the people living life in peace..."-John Lennon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:55:00 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Return (NJC) Jason made my day: << A big "hello again" to everyone on the list.......I've had a good, long break from the net, got a few things in order, and am once again now and here among you all. I'm not sure I have that much to say about Joni at the moment (other than I have seen the wonderful "Painting With Words & Music" concert video), but I wanted to re-sub because I've always enjoyed the quality of discussion on here in writing terms. No other list I've known can talk it quite like JONI can :-) I see there have been some "tweakings" to the overall format of the list....guess the whole NJC debate must have needed a solution! Good to be back, Jason. >> GREAT to have you back Jason! We missed you! Isn't PWWAM superb? I for one adore the stripped-down sound & think the latest version of Black Crow is the best yet. Also loved seeing all of Joni's new paintings - particularly the close-up of the snow covered road at the end of Facelift (which I like even better than the studio version). & it was so good to see Wally's radiant smile backing Joni all the way. Yes the Joni-only tweaking is working wonderfully. & you're SO right - no other discussion group I've found out there can match the caliber of the JMDL. Aloha, E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:03:05 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: some songwriters can't sing (so what) (NJC) Marcel wrote: >But how do you explain George Burns, Jimmy Durante, >and Louis Armstrong. OR Bob Dylan for that matter. Does someone want to >suggest that those guys cant sing a song ? On a side note, I have a version of Bob Dylan singing "Lay, Lady Lay", in which he is almost unrecognisable - he sings "normally" (for want of a better word - maybe I should say "conventionally") and though perhaps a little nasal, he has quite a pleasant singing voice. I have quite a few Bob Dylan albums, and I do like his style of singing (or some would say "non-singing"!) - IMO it compliments the type of songs he writes, but this version of "Lay, Lady Lay" is quite a welcome change! Helen NP - Indigo Girls - Swamp Ophelia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:08:00 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: The snob over there Vince wrote: >I should decide what is on the JMDL as I am so in tune to Joni's soul, >and if I don't like what someone posts, it is my right to correct them. >You have some valid points, but sometimes you just don't understand what >this list is about. The fool over there, who gave that idiot the right >to criticize my post which simply and tastefully informed that worthless >snob that what was posted shouldn't be allowed? > >I nevr make miztakes, just typoes. You realy shud lern how to spel. >That idut, cant evn find spelchek. > >with apologies to the late Sidney J. Harris, Brilliant, just brilliant! And to add my two cents worth, I don't know anything about art or music, but I know what I like, and that's Joni, in both disciplines. I don't care if she's not a "great" artist, or a "great" musician to anyone else. She is to me, and that's all I care about! Helen P.S. Is there something in the atmosphere at the moment, that's affecting everyone? Lots of people here seems to be getting snippy, it's happening on the Lee-Shore too (the CSN list), and even my friends have been getting shitty over nothing. What's going on? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:17:46 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Radiant Undulance Catgirl wrote: << It is her RHYTHM that is so hard to duplicate. I would not consider that basic and simple at all. I feel if anything her rhythms have gotten more complex which makes for very interesting interpretations! >> You are SO right on Catgirl! What I love most about Joni's music is the astounding rhythms she gets going on the guitar & piano - what I call her "radiant undulance." Tiger Bones & Stay In Touch sound simple until you REALLY hear them. Then you realize why so few musicians dare to tackle her songs. It took me months of listening to Jericho over & over & over again to finally be able to sing it. & it took my band at least a year to finally be able to play it. Lately I'm getting into Otis & Marlena. WOW, talk about complex rhythms.... E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:21:24 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: jones & joan (very little JC) - now NJC Kakki wrote: >The ultimate goal of activism is to effect social change, ideally for the >better. I guess the starting and ending point for me is not a numbers game >of how many miles are traveled or how many benefits are done but, rather, >how well you succeed in reaching, changing, comforting peoples' hearts. In >that context, most of those who bring us music could be considered activists >for social good on a very elemental level. In that respect, I believe that >Joni has given of herself and achieved that basic goal every bit as much as >Joan, even though she took a different path or approach to do it. I always think David Crosby's comments about "political" songs summed things up pretty well. I'll try and remember it verbatim, since I haven't got time to get the video out and find it! He was speaking about songs like "Long Time Gone" (his song, written after Bobby Kennedy was shot) and "Ohio" (Neil Young's song about Kent State): "The only time musicians should do that [write these kinds of songs] is when they're absolutely moved to do so. When it hits you in the face and you've got to react. I don't think you should go out and look for, you know, causes, in order to "have" a cause. I don't think that has anything to do with making music, at all." Doesn't sound so good now that I've typed it, but it sounded good when he said it! Never mind - what's one more piece of wasted band-width! Helen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:15:37 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Voice and Talent (NJC) S.L.A.C. wrote: > > I can't quite explain it - But when you are doing it right, you know it. > Gee, couldn't you be more non-specific? I'll try ;-) since you and a few others have asked me for more information. How would we explain how we learned to talk? The great teacher I had in high school never explained the whole physiology of it. He would sing certain exercises for me to follow and then would either nod and encourage me if I got it right or pause, stop and start again if I didn't. It was all somewhat imitative and once I did it the right way long enough it became a habit. But not having had that coaching for years, I suppose, made me lose my drift! What I learned from my friend at work was something new in explaining more of the actual physical aspects of it. She has a wonderful vocal coach who I would love to work with if I ever get more time. She did say that he has her do really unusual vocal exercises - singing a series of strange, contorted sounds and that this serves to give you the awareness of doing it "right". Kakki NP: Dianne Reeves - Suzanne (review coming up) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:45:25 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Dianne Reeves CD (SJC) Dianne Reeves CD "Bridges" arrived in my mail today and I've probably listened to it about ten times now. The beauty of it is so overwhelming that I think I would do it injustice to try to parse it in a review - there's just way too much WOW there for me to relate. If you want to drown in a totally gorgeous and luscious reverie of music, get this one. It is quite varied, and knowing so many of your individual musical tastes here, I feel there is something in it for everyone. The production and sound is beyond stellar. The all-star cast of musicians is astounding. Her interpretation of Joni's "River" is very beautiful and there are subtle musical references to Joni throughout it. There are glorious hooks and surprises in each song. The biggest revelation to me was her take on Peter Gabriel's "In Your Eyes" - It just knocked me completely over breathless. Her performance on that song and Leonard Cohen's "Suzanne" are in another realm. Feeling snippy these days? ;-) This album will cure you in a split second! Kakki NP: Dianne Reeves - Make Someone Happy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:06:02 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: The snob over there In a message dated 6/24/99 1:14:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << Vince wrote: >I should decide what is on the JMDL as I am so in tune to Joni's soul, >and if I don't like what someone posts, it is my right to correct them. >You have some valid points, but sometimes you just don't understand what >this list is about. The fool over there, who gave that idiot the right >to criticize my post which simply and tastefully informed that worthless >snob that what was posted shouldn't be allowed? > >I nevr make miztakes, just typoes. You realy shud lern how to spel. >That idut, cant evn find spelchek. > >with apologies to the late Sidney J. Harris, >> Vince, Harris was one of my favorite columnists, too. I had not heard he had died. Was it recently, if you know? In fact, I often use a quote of his: "Conversation should be like a tennis match, where each person hits the ball to the other's court. But to most people it is like a golf game, where each person hits his own ball and keeps doggedly after it." -- Sydney J. Harris Paul I ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #276 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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