From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #275 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, June 24 1999 Volume 04 : Number 275 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: blue fans ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: You Are Your Car [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Hissing at Rolling Stone [Kay_Ashley@ars.aon.com] Re: Hissing at Rolling Stone [Don Rowe ] Re: Voice and Talent (NJC) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: blue fans ["Reuben Bell3" ] Re: blue fans ["Reuben Bell3" ] Re: "Art snobs" NJC [dsk ] Re: "Art snobs" NJC [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Fred Simon gigorandum/Chicago JMDL(NJC)vicariously though... [Scott a] Re: Joni and Ebay [FMYFL@aol.com] joni's take on punk & disco ["Lisa Peakes" ] Re: "Art snobs" NJC [catman ] Re: "Art snobs" NJC [catman ] Mini-meet & greet [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Joni and Ebay [catman ] Re: Mini-meet & greetNJC [catman ] Tight Arsed? (NJC) [simon@icu.com] some songwriters can't sing for sh*t! (NJC) [simon@icu.com] JONI under the covers [simon@icu.com] Sings Out! & BROADSIDE [simon@icu.com] Re: Joni and Ebay [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: A Legend Hissing at Rolling Stone ;~D [Susan Chaloner ] Re: Joni and Ebay [Randy Remote ] NJC One more time EBay ["Gene Mock" ] Re: ...in a name (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] VYG: NJC [Vince Lavieri ] NJC: The snob over there [Vince Lavieri ] Re: some songwriters can't sing (so what) (NJC) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: JONI under the covers ["P. Henry" ] RE: You Are Your Car/"Art snobs" ["patrick leader" ] RE: The snob over there (njc) ["patrick leader" ] Re: NJC One more time EBay [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: (NJC) Iain Matthews & Amelia Earheart [LRFye@aol.com] Re: ...in a name (NJC) [Vince Lavieri ] Re: (NJC) Amelia Earheart [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Joni and Ebay [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Art Snobs NJC ["Eric Taylor" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:42:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: blue fans Joni has made both positive and negative references with the use of the word punk. I think she liked the disco music of its era because it was a time she enjoyed partying and dancing at the clubs. Though, thankfully she never recorded either, like too many of the artists of the 70's. But I guess everyone has their Dog Eat Dog! Jerry On Wed, 23 Jun 1999 Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com wrote: > > > > > Drew asks: > > < punk and disco at the time? especially as punk hated everything > joni appeared to represent - the sex pistols had a fight with a > band simply because their guitarist said he liked her>> > > I'm only speaking from assumption, but ya' gotta figure if she > mentions whiny white kids NOW, > suffice to say that she also thought that "formula music" > boring...the old man > is snoring... > > No wonder she went WAY out in left field at the end of the > seventies! > > But speaking for myself, I think "Never Mind The Bollocks" > rocks, and I mean it, man!! > > Bob > > NPIMH: Sex Pistols, "God Save The Queen" > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:35:44 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: You Are Your Car In a message dated 6/22/1999 1:24:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ewwtaylor@adelphia.net writes: << What I find so refreshing about Taming The Tiger & Painting With Words & Music is Joni's stripped-down renditions of her complex chords & rhythms (they complain when it's too hot & they complain when it's too cool). Well >> I would agree with you very much so Eric. Joni has always played simple chords on the guitar. She just chnages tunings. It is her RHYTHM that is so hard to duplicate. I would not consider that basic and simple at all. I feel if anything her rhythms have gotten more complex which makes for very interesting interpretations! Cat.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:43:04 -0400 From: Kay_Ashley@ars.aon.com Subject: Hissing at Rolling Stone Hey! Out of the shadows.... Les, Stephen: Rolling Stone called "The Hissing of Summer Lawns" worst album name of the year of 1975; not worst album, and not worst album packaging. One can understand that an idiot like Wenner might not appreciate Joni's esoteric language, but even he is bright enough to recognize good graphic design when he sees it! :-) Les, I can't remember the exact Rolling Stone issue -- I don't have it -- but I did find it on microfiche in a library when I was in high school, and I distinctly remember reading that it was the title of the album they dissed. Joni's subsequent pouting about it, while completely understandable (given what a total bunch of asses the editorial staff at that rag is), is inaccurate. Kay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:47:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Hissing at Rolling Stone - --- Kay_Ashley@ars.aon.com wrote: > Joni's subsequent pouting about it, while > completely > understandable (given what a total bunch of asses > the editorial staff at > that rag is), is inaccurate. Yes, but it's also one of her greatest creations -- the urban legend! Long before PCs, www.anything or e-mail, Joni was spreading them! ;-) Talk about never getting credit ... Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:53:31 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Voice and Talent (NJC) In a message dated 6/22/1999 1:05:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: << Catgirl writes ... > "It always bugged me that there are some who just > sing others music. > Sure they sound good but where is the real talent in > that?" Not to singe the fur, but there is every bit as much talent involved in singing as there is in playing a musical instrument, or composing lyrics. Stong vocalists use their vocal chords the way Joni uses the strings of her guitar, and must not only be blessed with innate physical characteristics, but a mental toughness and awareness of their own shortcomings in order to continually improve their technique. Singing is every bit as physicallly demanding as playing an >> I think everyone who was attacking Ange and now me... I know Attacking sounds harsh...is not getting the point. the point her and I were trying to make is that Joni covered all the corners. SHE is a songwriter, SHE is a singer, SHE is a guitar player ( and quite innovative as well), SHE plays the piano, SHE playes the dulcimer, and SHE probably plays a few other instruments as well. That is our point. She does it ALL!!! And , that was the only point we werer trying to make is that she should get more credit due her for she is quite AMAZING...that's all! Catgirl...jumping off of soapbox and hiding under the bed!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:03:32 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: blue fans Drew asks: <>>>> I think that the two periods are very different in terms of whining, though. Punk was (is) not nearly as apathetic as of lot of "formula music" of today. Pearl Jam and Nirvana were whiny. The rage that punk translated into style is not translated the same way today. Contemporary pop-rage is sullen. I also think that lyrically, punk was much more direct and to the point and yes, at some times, even more eloquent. Some of the Sex Pistols and Siouxsie and the Banshees' (just to name two near and dear to me) early "punk" work was actually quite innovative and more interesting than just the wailing and pounding that many associate with punk. Reuben npimh: Banshees' "Suburban Relapse" "I'm sorry that I hit you, but my string snapped... I'm sorry I disturbed your cat nap. While finishing a chore, I asked myself 'what for?' And something snapped, I had a relapse A suburban relapse." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:03:32 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: blue fans Drew asks: <>>>> I think that the two periods are very different in terms of whining, though. Punk was (is) not nearly as apathetic as of lot of "formula music" of today. Pearl Jam and Nirvana were whiny. The rage that punk translated into style is not translated the same way today. Contemporary pop-rage is sullen. I also think that lyrically, punk was much more direct and to the point and yes, at some times, even more eloquent. Some of the Sex Pistols and Siouxsie and the Banshees' (just to name two near and dear to me) early "punk" work was actually quite innovative and more interesting than just the wailing and pounding that many associate with punk. Reuben npimh: Banshees' "Suburban Relapse" "I'm sorry that I hit you, but my string snapped... I'm sorry I disturbed your cat nap. While finishing a chore, I asked myself 'what for?' And something snapped, I had a relapse A suburban relapse." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:08:00 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: "Art snobs" NJC catman wrote: > > ...what i was objecting to was the idea that my thinking a > piece of art is 'nice' reduces that art and people such as yourself who are 'experts'. That sounds to me like I am > being belittled for my inabilty to enthuse and describe like an art expert therefore I cannot really appreciate art > which is nonsense. I agree. But it's valuing ONLY that approach to art, and then giving a negative label to those people that have another approach, that I was objecting to. Exactly what you're saying, but from the other viewpoint. When it comes to the subject of art, many people do this dismissal of the other viewpoint without even thinking about it and then blame those other people for the separateness they may feel. I'm sure this can happen in other fields, too, but I'm often struck by how easily, instantly, it happens when the subject is art, which is often perceived as something that's to be made fun of, instead of something to appreciate, enjoy and maybe learn about. > Anyway, I hope I have given the picture I intend! It is not the knowledge these people have that is irksome but the > condescending attitude some have. Yes, I understand that. I think you've expressed very well what a lot of people feel. > and, btw, if you knew who Brian Sewell(pronounced sue-ull) I think you would agree he is outrageous in his snobbishness. Well, NOW I'm curious. :-D Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:23:30 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: "Art snobs" NJC In a message dated 6/23/99 2:24:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: > But Colin, I am a musical dunce also and I don't find it belittling when > > people discuss the technical aspects of Joni's music! > > And niether do I. That is not what i wrote. I am not going to go thru all > that > agian. i can't help it if people read something other than what i wrote. > I guess I had difficulty sifting through the meaning of your post. My fault, I'm sure. Your second post clarified things better. I apologize for misunderstanding you. That is sincere. Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:47:05 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: Fred Simon gigorandum/Chicago JMDL(NJC)vicariously though... Fred, We may just be there, finally!! We've been waiting for you to play on a weekend. Thursday nights at The Damen have been killers for us to attend - work related woes. Any other Chicago folk interested? Pop's For Champagne - That's really a good gig!! My best to you Fred and we hope to see you there!! jody and scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:54:16 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and Ebay Catgirl wrote: We saved money this time but with 600 people on the list I know I won't be albe to afford the eBay prices anymore for I don't want to bid against friends from the list. Songbooks are already going for outrageous prices now with the entire list in on anything from eBay a songbooks selling for 50.00 could now easliy go for 150.00 plus. If we could come up wiht a system to give listers who bid first courtesy, then it would be fine with me. I'm not sure if it would work or not, but maybe something like "onelist.com" which Catgirl has her "jonifans" list might be a solution. JMDLers who occassionally bid from eBay could post to a new list called JMDLeBay@onelist.com (or whatever name you wanted to use), and say they are bidding on a certain Joni item so others who were interested wouldn't bid against their fellow JMDLer. Probably a dumb idea, but just trying to think of some kind of solution to this problem. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:08:34 -0400 From: "Lisa Peakes" Subject: joni's take on punk & disco > > < punk and disco at the time? especially as punk hated everything > joni appeared to represent - the sex pistols had a fight with a > band simply because their guitarist said he liked her>> I wonder about this, too. I'm sure she keeps a finger on the pulse of contemporary music - I remember an (early '80's?) article where she said she liked the look of Cheap Trick (ever the aesthete - what else would you expect from someone who used to work in ladies' wear?) and thought well of Aimee Mann's work - but disco - did she think it had a "funky" sound? How about the Good-time-Charlie, party-'til-you-drop, self-involvement of the disco milieu? - Did she view punk as a melodic travesty? Or chuckle at its naive, unmitigated, sloppy rage? Sartorially speaking, there wasn't much to look at. Who can elaborate on what she's said about these types of music? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:14:25 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: "Art snobs" NJC No need to apologise Gina but thanks for it anyhow. Misunderstandings are easy to come by. Ginamu@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/23/99 2:24:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: > > > But Colin, I am a musical dunce also and I don't find it belittling when > > > people discuss the technical aspects of Joni's music! > > > > And niether do I. That is not what i wrote. I am not going to go thru all > > that > > agian. i can't help it if people read something other than what i wrote. > > > > I guess I had difficulty sifting through the meaning of your post. My fault, > I'm sure. Your second post clarified things better. I apologize for > misunderstanding you. That is sincere. > > Take care, > Gina - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:14:29 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: "Art snobs" NJC dsk wrote: > catman wrote: > > > > ...what i was objecting to was the idea that my thinking a > > piece of art is 'nice' reduces that art and people such as yourself who are 'experts'. That sounds to me like I am > > being belittled for my inabilty to enthuse and describe like an art expert therefore I cannot really appreciate art > > which is nonsense. > > I agree. But it's valuing ONLY that approach to art, and then giving a > negative label to those people that have another approach, BUT i did not do this and don't. I don't know how to make it any clearer than i already have. I didn't say I didn't value you perspective at all or the knowledge involved. i just do not value being told my thinking art is nice devalues art or art experts. THAT is what i find objectionable-the attitude. > that I was > objecting to. Exactly what you're saying, but from the other viewpoint. > > When it comes to the subject of art, many people do this dismissal of > the other viewpoint without even thinking about it and then blame those > other people for the separateness they may feel. I'm sure this can > happen in other fields, too, but I'm often struck by how easily, > instantly, it happens when the subject is art, which is often perceived > as something that's to be made fun of, instead of something to > appreciate, enjoy and maybe learn about. > > > Anyway, I hope I have given the picture I intend! It is not the knowledge these people have that is irksome but the > > condescending attitude some have. > > Yes, I understand that. I think you've expressed very well what a lot of > people feel. > > > and, btw, if you knew who Brian Sewell(pronounced sue-ull) I think you would agree he is outrageous in his snobbishness. > > Well, NOW I'm curious. :-D > > Debra Shea - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:12:56 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Mini-meet & greet Last night I enjoyed a great Joni-evening with fellow lister Catgirl & her husband. Catgirl was gracious enough to invite me up (or maybe she accepted my inviting myself) for some great food, and lots of Joni. They live in a beautiful little "village" north of Philly in a very cool quaint house full of, well, cats! We dined on pasta and some soy meatballs (Catgirl assured me that no cats had been harmed in the making of supper) and talked about Joni (of course),tape trees, discussion lists, and other stuff too. We watched some of the video tape trees and I really enjoyed that because a lot of that stuff I had never seen before. Then it was time to break out the guitars and the Joni songbooks! That was really a treat, Catgirl's old man is quite good and knows lots of Joni, and Catgirl is no slouch herself. Me, all I could do was sing and play the maracas (not real maracas, but shaky-fruit things that made noise). Our set list: Marcie Night In The City That Song About The Midway Conversation (Catgirl solo) Rainy Night House Amelia Coyote (with Mr. Catgirl adding Jaco-like flourishes from the bass string of his guitar) Night Ride Home Passion Play Big Yellow Taxi What a blast! I felt like a little kid at Christmastime. The only tough thing about the whole night was having to leave knowing that I had about a 45 minute drive to get back to my hotel, which turned in to an hour when I made a wrong turn, but all in all, no regrets coyote as far as I'm concerned. My thanks once again to the wonderful amazing Catgirl and her husband for all of their graciousness. What a joy and a blessing this list is! Whoo-Hoo! And it's already killing me that I'm not gonna make the July 1 NY Jazz show... Bob -------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:17:37 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni and Ebay Surely the idea of an auction is that something goes to the highest bidder? if one is bidding against another member of the Jonilist it is called life! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:21:04 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Mini-meet & greetNJC If we weren't in different countries Catgirl and Catman could see eachothers pussies although I have dogs too. any objection to dogs, Catgirl? Also, from what i have seen of USA countryside, it would make my countryside pale by comparison. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:25:35 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Tight Arsed? (NJC) Colin catman writes ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >You know I can't believe some of the tight arsed responses people get when >they send something in in good faith. Don't let it get to you Jimbo. >colin >___________________________________________________________________________ Colin, you seem to have formed a consensus of -1- it might surprise you to know that Jimbo eMailed me privately *thanking* me for the information. - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:25:58 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: some songwriters can't sing for sh*t! (NJC) Bob.Muller writes ... >_____________________________________________________________ >simon s*id: ><> >Burt Bacharach, Randy Newman, Kris Kristofferson to name 3... >Bob >_____________________________________________________________ i'm not necessarily gonna disagree with Bob here. BUT, while Randy Newman may not have a *good* voice ... i do think he has a Great! voice. the perfect voice and vehicle for the wry sardonic wit and emotion infused in everything he's written. BTW: have you listened to "I Think It's Going To Rain Today" lately? as for Burt and Kris ... no comment. for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:26:21 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: JONI under the covers P. Henry writes ... >________________________________________________________________________ >no, to me the only Joni-cover worse than Dave Van Ronk's version of BSN >has GOT to be Dave Van Ronk's version of STAS >pat >________________________________________________________________________ Pat, i can understand where you're coming from but i'd point out that Joni has always *liked* Dave Van Ronk's version of "Both Sides, Now." he was one of Joni's early champions and also one of the first singers to perform the song. in the early days (before Joni's LPs) he was rather insistant that the title of the song was actually "Clouds." or at least that it should be. Joni called her 2nd LP "Clouds" (partially) in tribute/respect to Dave. for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:33:37 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Sings Out! & BROADSIDE P.Henry writes ... >______________________________________________________________________ >hi gang, just thought I'd share a little more obscure info with y'all. >in 1950 a non-profit org, Sing Out! publications out of Bethlehem PA, >> formed for the preservation of American folk >music, began publishing Sing Out! magazine. > >this publication (along with The Boston Broadside) became the >'folkie bible' during the mid-60's 'folk boom', each issue containing >the sheet music to several songs, both contemporary and traditional, >articles on festivals, picking styles, instruments, protests, etc. and >ads where one could, among other things, contact the various agencies >(harold leventhal for example) and book working performers like >Judy Collins, Arlo Guthrie, Tom Paxton, Tom Rush, etc., which I >utilized in my days as 'entertainment mgr.' of the Cellar. > >______________________________________________________________________ Pat, i want to thank you for your recent post. i'd completely forgotten about those Sing Out! issues. now i'm gonna have to go thru some of the trunks and other cartons stored at my mothers' house this weekend. you're right about there being Joni content in several issues of The (Boston) Broadside. at least two issues that i know of. here's a little something that may be of interest to the JMDL. From: The BROADSIDE (Folk Music & Coffee House News) Vol. VI, #5 ~ April 26, 1967 "This Issue's Cover" JONI MITCHELL Hailed by the folk underground for over a year now, Joni Mitchell is just beginning to receive the acclaim due to her as a performer and songwriter from the general folk community. Although now based in Detroit, she was born in Alberta, Canada, and raised in the great northern prarielands of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Joni Anderson went to art school in Calgary and then went off to the Mariposa Folk Festival. Although she intended to return to art school, she found that she could get gigs in Totonto and decided to stay. She met Chuck Mitchell while she was working at the Penny Farthing; and a short time later, after a visit to his home and family, they decided to get married. They became an institution at the Chessmate Gallery in Detroit, where they met Tom Rush when he came to town. They put him up; and when Tom left he took with him a tape with a number of Joni's compositions. "The Urge For Going" soon became one of the most acclaimed songs in Tom's repertoire, and people began to ask who was this Joni Mitchell. "Urge..." is now number 9 on the C & W charts, as recorded by George Hamilton IV, and interest is running high in a number of other of Joni's songs. As a performer also, Joni Mitchell has been creating a good deal of excitement. Stunning performances at the Mariposa Folk Festival and at major folk clubs from Toronto to Miami have resulted in a growing audience. Her performances in Cambridge this month will be shared with Chuck Mitchell, who's exceptional versatility and unusual approach to material ranging from simple ballads to Brecht theatre songs should be one of the highlights of this season. ------------------------------------- Joni & Chuck appeared at the Club 47 in Cambridge on April 28 & 29, 1967. also included in this issue is one of Joni's early songs. BRANDY EYES Eyes that send me chasing after feelings that I lost one day. why befriend me when the brandy tells me what they want to say? Playing big protector is a grand disguise. 'til you contradict yourself with brandy eyes. No beginning -- still no end to let me shrug and walk away. Silly grinning, teasing talk that promises a kiss some day. I would put you out of mind if I were wise. But wisdom has no power over brandy eyes. Maybe I'm wrong if I am please pardon me and pat my head. Sing an old song sing of one more foolish heart that's being misled. Take the points for winning and donate the prize, and keep on a-scoring with those brandy eyes. (c) 1966 Gandalf Publishing Co. BTW: Joni Anderson and Chuck Mitchell were married in June '65 in the backyard of Chuck's parents home in Rochester, Mi. take it easy, but take it! - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:40:14 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and Ebay In a message dated 6/23/99 5:17:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << Surely the idea of an auction is that something goes to the highest bidder? if one is bidding against another member of the Jonilist it is called life! >> Excuse my french, but I could really give a rat's ass about eBay but it does seem to be a concern amongst some of the listers. I was just trying to come up with a solution for those who are concerned about bidding against their friends. My apologies for trying! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:39:46 -0700 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: A Legend Hissing at Rolling Stone ;~D Don Rowe wrote: > Yes, but it's also one of her greatest creations -- > the urban legend! Long before PCs, www.anything or > e-mail, Joni was spreading them! ;-) Talk about never > getting credit ... Here! Here! :~) By the california amber invested in me and Askew Creek I hereby knight Joni the greatest legend maker/makest beyond time...hissing or not Pssssssssst...babe; whip out your loaded pen so I can bless it ;~) Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-who after recently thumbing through her first ever Rolling Stone could not get Heart's song "Magazine" out of her head... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:39:29 EDT From: WirlyPearl@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni lith on eBay In a message dated 6/23/99 11:25:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Harpua@revealed.net writes: > > As Kakki mentioned a while back, one of Joni's liths, entitled "The > Road To Uncle Lyles" was up on eBay, starting at $4900. It's now down > to $900. The bidding STARTS at $900. He has a reserve on it and that price may still be $4900 or something near that. Doing it this way he might at least get some bids and although he may not get his reserve, he'll have someone to possibly negotiate with for it. Pearl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:36:34 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: joni's take on punk & disco Lisa wrote: <<>> I'm sure she doesn't. Her opinions on it often seem quite glib to me. My guess is her thoughts on both punk and disco were not too positive. - --Michael NP: De La Soul, "Potholes in My Lawn" (on imagineradio.com--love this website!!!) - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:12:41 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: Book club interest? Hi all-- Les has graciously (as always) agreed to host a small listserv for interested JMDLers to form a book club via email discussion. Before I volunteer to host such a list, I wanted to gauge the interest. If you'd like to read a book every month or so (perhaps even some related to Joni--even tangentially) and discuss it with fellow JMDLers, drop me a short note. Thanks! - --Michael NP: Rufus Wainwright, "In My Arms" (on imagineradio right after Frankie Goes to Hollywood--it's Queer Pride at imagineradio.com! :-) ) NR: Jean Genet, _Funeral Rites_ - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:14:55 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni and Ebay Oh dear! You obviously interpreted this as an insult to yourself. It wasn't written with that in mind at all. FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/23/99 5:17:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: > > << Surely the idea of an auction is that something goes to the highest bidder? > if one is bidding against another member of the Jonilist it is called life! > >> > > Excuse my french, but I could really give a rat's ass about eBay but it does > seem to be a concern amongst some of the listers. I was just trying to come > up with a solution for those who are concerned about bidding against their > friends. > My apologies for trying! > > Jimmy - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:35:48 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni and Ebay catman wrote: > Surely the idea of an auction is that something goes to the highest bidder? > if one is bidding against another member of the Jonilist it is called life! I agree and would prefer the rather long Ebay lists stay off of jmdl; whoever wants to can check Ebay themselves. RR ps I also agree with CatGirl that the prices for Joni stuff on Ebay are getting ridiculous. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:59:55 -0700 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: NJC One more time EBay Why is it that Joni's items on EBay go for higher prices than other artists? Or is it my imagination? Thanks gene ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:44:54 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: ...in a name (NJC) > guess I have to throw this in: my first great love, aside from my huge crush on Joni, in the Cellar days had the last name of Barr... and OF COURSE she had a sister named Candy! This thread was going on while I was away and reading through all the digests I wanted to chime in but figured it was dead. But now that Pat has resurrected it, I think I can top all of you. At the University of Northern Iowa in the early 70's there was a woman named Fonda Dicks. I kid you not. Although I never actually met this unfortunate person I do remember seeing the name in the student directory and was friends with a woman who said she had played against Fonda's basketball team in high school. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:36:24 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: VYG: NJC Congrats, Heather, and as an experienced grandparent (my grandson is 4) the corect phrasing is: > > > <<(also I became a VERY YOUNG Grandmother yesterday. My > granddaughter > was 4 weeks early and is doing just fine)>> > > At least, I always identify myself as a "very young grandfather" (the Rev) Vince NPIMH: I'm So Vain... but again, congrats to you and your family! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:03:57 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC: The snob over there I know art. You appreciate art. That other person is ignorant about art; consider their taste - their only taste is in their mouth. I know Joni, in a most well-balanced way. You are obsessed with Joni. That other person is a Joni snob. I love dogs. You are ok because you like mammals in general. That idiot over there likes cats, can you imagine how classless! I know music. You seemingly can kind of follow a good discussion. The other someone is a blithering fool. I know theology and like to share my helpful insights. You tend to show off your knowledge, a little offensive. That dude just loves to go on and on to the point of boredom, right? I know art and enjoy talking about it. You know art, but do you have to always point out my slips of the tongue? That fool is a real art snob; I wish the fool would shut up. I love Rauschenberg. Your art tastes are ok, but you could be more, well, sophisticated. That fool over there wouldn't know good art if it fell on the fool's head. My point of view is always correct and I state it in a most pleasant matter. You are usually right but you tend to belabor a point; do hush, dear. That jerk never had a worthwhile thought, ever, and shouldn't even be allowed to talk. If I point something out, the whole JMDL should take note. If you point something out, it is interesting but I may not respond. If that jerk posts one more thing on this list and comes off with that condescending attitude, I will tell Wally and Les on them! I should decide what is on the JMDL as I am so in tune to Joni's soul, and if I don't like what someone posts, it is my right to correct them. You have some valid points, but sometimes you just don't understand what this list is about. The fool over there, who gave that idiot the right to criticize my post which simply and tastefully informed that worthless snob that what was posted shouldn't be allowed? I nevr make miztakes, just typoes. You realy shud lern how to spel. That idut, cant evn find spelchek. with apologies to the late Sidney J. Harris, I remain (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:53:13 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: some songwriters can't sing (so what) (NJC) How about "Sail Away". And my all time all time Newman song, the absolutely incomparable "I Love LA" is a fabulous vocal job. Randy's voice is different, not bad at ALL. There is a difference. Those who disagree with that statement dont understand singing. I have been singing on stage since I was 7. There are simply different ways to "sing" a song. Many who are absolutely great Broadway singers cant do opera. So what. The "pure melodics" and such are simply singing one way. But how do you explain George Burns, Jimmy Durante, and Louis Armstrong. OR Bob Dylan for that matter. Does someone want to suggest that those guys cant sing a song ? Louis Armstrong was not Pavrotti but Luciano couldnt do half the justice to say "What a Wonderful World" that the Great Louis did. I say that in all seriousness. In fact most of the singers I hear are what I call "star search" voices. Pure, and clear. But they put ZERO soul into what they sing. If you dont have some 'tude in your singing then you are a wonder in aunt mildreds eyes but thats it. Its the same difference between those pianists who can only play when they are reading and Liberace or Elton John or Victor Borge who play unbelievable standing on their heads. Whos better? Songwriters have always been able to put a feel into their song that the pure vocalists simply dont so in spite of the fact that the pure vocalist may have a technically better voice there is something in the songwriters version that always adds an intangible or subliminal ingredient. And that is the actual experience that they lived that allowed them to ceate the song itself. They are feeling that experience whenever they sing the song. The non writers dont have THAT no matter how good they sing. thats my 2 cents as a singer/writer. marcel deste. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:11:00 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: JONI under the covers simon wrote: >>Pat, i can understand where you're coming from but i'd point out that Joni has always *liked* Dave Van Ronk's version of "Both Sides, Now." he was one of Joni's early champions and also one of the first singers to perform the song. in the early days (before Joni's LPs) he was rather insistent that the title of the song was actually "Clouds." or at least that it should be. Joni called her 2nd LP "Clouds" (partially) in tribute/respect to Dave.>> simon, all, of course, quite accurate and historically correct. (and I'm so grateful to you for being there and all your meticulous work in keeping the record straight!) remember, *I was there* "in the early days (before Joni's LPs)" and I know. Dave was/is a legend in the folk world and, I can tell you, at the time he was among the most highly respected performers around... I mean, his Verve/Folkways pre '61 anthology is archived in the Smithsonian! I can see where Joni felt greatly honoured that he chose to play her songs, especially since he was one of the first. it's just that, by the time he recorded the two songs, IMO, he'd pretty much lost his voice and and to me they sounded awful. even in his heyday, prior to '61, again, IMHO, he always sounded a lot better on blues than on ballads. anyway, thanks for the info, though I already knew that and more. keep up the good work, simon... you're great! pat NP: The Other Side Of This Life - Fred Neil http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:22:55 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: You Are Your Car/"Art snobs" gina wrote, it's not usually that expensive to access an art museum. I >believe at the Met for instance, one is allowed to contribute what one can >afford to pay for admission. you are right, the met can be done very cheaply, and all the other museums have at least one free or suggested donation night. besides, the top admission is between $6 and $14, and considering what people pay for movies, (not to mention popcorn and soda), i'm skeptical when people talk about art as expensive and elitist. (not that you did, gina) (Theater, dance and musical >performances of all kinds, on the other hand, seem very out of reach for the mainstream). i know it's hard to believe, given my demonstrated jmdl brilliance, but i am and nearly always have been a very low-income worker. partly because i spent 20 years pursuing a career as a dancer and am now transitioning alongside people much younger than me. other reasons, too. and i live in the most ridiculously expensive city in the u.s. still, i manage to see plenty of dance, theater, and musical performances, very cheaply. the met opera and the ny state theater have standing room for under $15. you can almost always move into decent seats. downtown dance performances are priced between $8 and $15. out of reach? no, no... all it takes is a little effort, but our education system has given up on teaching kids that it might be worth the effort to see 'Theater, dance and musical performances'. that's a true trajedy. i did inherit a little money from my gram this year (i'd rather have her back, frankly) and it financed a trip to la to see joni and some great jmdl folks. those tix were over $80 each, and they truly sucked though i loved the performances. if i spent $80 at the met, i could at least see the stage. patrick np - joni in tokyo - 83 gina, i think you live on the eastern seaboard, no? come to ny and i'll show you a cheap, culturally amazing time. there are many jmdlers who can vouch for me. and i have a complete blast, sharing my loves with folks. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:36:15 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: The snob over there (njc) vince wrote: i . you . that other person . scary. fucking brilliant. thanks for this, vince. who is 'Sidney J. Harris'? patrick byt in tokyo, 83 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:37:36 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC One more time EBay In a message dated 6/23/1999 8:01:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gmock@psyber.com writes: << Why is it that Joni's items on EBay go for higher prices than other artists? Or is it my imagination? Thanks gene >> Because we are bidding against each other. Well, I am just grateful that I got my few items when I did. Now I will never win another eBay. RATZ, Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:07:34 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Iain Matthews & Amelia Earheart PaulC wrote: > This has got me interested in Amelia Earheart - she appears to have inspired > several other writers including Patti Smith, I see. Is there a good book I > should read? If you can find it, I recommend this one: The Fun Of It Random Records of My Own Flying And of Women in Aviation by Amelia Earhart With Photographs copyright 1932 by Amelia Earhart Putnam, originally published by Harcourt, Brace, New York, ISBN 0-915864-56-8 and 0-915864-55-Xpbk. My copy was published in 1978 by Academy Press Limited, 425 N. Michigan Ave., Chicago, IL, 60601, (old area code) 312-644-1723. I found it in a used bookstore in Rome in 1985, for lira 15,000. From the back cover, this: "I want to do it because I want to do it. Women must try to do things as men have tried. When they fail, their failure must be but a challenge to others." - Amelia Earhart, Last Flight It's an enjoyable read, and I figure why not get the story directly from the source? Good luck, hope you find a copy. Lori San Antonio NP: Spurs winning Game 4 (so far) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:47:31 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: ...in a name (NJC) > > > > Mark: I can match you and then top you (so to speak). > > > > My partner, in his straight days, dated a girl in his high school > named > > Fonda Peters. I am told, she was, too. > > > > I was absent here for a while and returned (so for some of you, your > > prayers were not answered) as I was doing family things in Chicago, > > including see Clark Carlton's brilliant play, "Self Help." I went > with > > my dad to the mausoleum where my mother, uncle, and grandparents are > > walled in (I don't know what you call it, when they stick the casket > in > > the wall) and one row down, two spaces over from Grandma is "Olive > > Pitt." I was 11 when Grandma died and when they did the committal, > at > > the wall side (as opposed to grave side), I got angry at my aunt > because > > she kept saying "Olive Pitt" and laughing when I thought we supposed > to > > be serious. > > > > And: Clark Clifford's play is really brilliant. He keeps calling me > > "kind" when I say that, but I wasn't that thrilled by a play since I > saw > > the original "Grease" 29 years ago at the Kingston Mines Theater on > N. > > Lincoln in Chicago... the original Grease, long before the Broadway > > ruined version and that horrid Travotra-Newton John treacle. > > > > I am sad to report, only one Joni reference in "Self Help" but > despite > > that, it is so well-written and thought provoking and funny... > every > > time I see a pineapple in the supermarket, I think of you now! > > > > (the Rev) Vince > > > > Mark or Travis wrote: > > > > > This thread was going on while I was away and reading through all > the > > > digests I wanted to chime in but figured it was dead. But now > that > > > Pat has resurrected it, I think I can top all of you. At the > > > University of Northern Iowa in the early 70's there was a woman > named > > > Fonda Dicks. I kid you not. Although I never actually met this > > > unfortunate person I do remember seeing the name in the student > > > directory and was friends with a woman who said she had played > against > > > Fonda's basketball team in high school. > > > > > > Mark in Seattle > > PS Thanks to Mark who sent this back to me because I forgot to type in joni@smoe.org in the address... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:53:30 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: (NJC) Amelia Earheart From what my former father in law said, and he knew Amelia Earheart well, she was a gutsy, courageous, profane, and skilled but bull headed pilot... He knew from as he was an old pilot himself, and had a model that he had made of her last aircraft. The phone number given below: the area code would still be good; that part of Chicago is still 312. I am a Pistons fan, but go Spurs! (the Rev) Vince LRFye@aol.com wrote: > PaulC wrote: > > > This has got me interested in Amelia Earheart - she appears to have inspired > > several other writers including Patti Smith, I see. Is there a good book I > > should read? > > If you can find it, I recommend this one: > > The Fun Of It > Random Records of My Own Flying And of Women in Aviation > by Amelia Earhart > With Photographs > > copyright 1932 by Amelia Earhart Putnam, originally published by Harcourt, > Brace, New York, ISBN 0-915864-56-8 and 0-915864-55-Xpbk. > > My copy was published in 1978 by Academy Press Limited, 425 N. Michigan Ave., > Chicago, IL, 60601, (old area code) 312-644-1723. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:53:30 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and Ebay In a message dated 6/23/1999 7:39:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, guitarzan@saber.net writes: << Surely the idea of an auction is that something goes to the highest bidder? > if one is bidding against another member of the Jonilist it is called life! I agree and would prefer the rather long Ebay lists stay off of jmdl; whoever wants to can check Ebay themselves. RR ps I also agree with CatGirl that the prices for Joni stuff on Ebay are getting ridiculous. >> Thank you! Going to eBay is as easy as typing it in and hitting GO! OK everyone is that easy enough? Catgirl....getting a little tired of all the bickering about everything...can we now talk about Joni? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:23:07 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Art Snobs NJC I wrote: << You're reading an insult into my comment that was not directed at the JMDL but rather the art world at large. >> Debra responded: << You did not make that clear so, of course, I read your post in the context of the current discussion about art and, being a participant in that discussion, your comment struck me as insulting, not just to me but to everyone who'd taken part. The discussion about art last Fall also ended with you using the art snob phrase, which I didn't like then either but let pass without comment. This second time I'm more annoyed. >> This is a prime example of how a poor choice of words (on my part) can be blown WAY out of proportion. I immediately apologized, not once, but three times, to Debra for unintentionally implying that she or anyone else on this list is an art snob. And again, I am truly sorry if anyone interpreted my statement: "Last night I watched The Pirates Of Silicon Valley on TNT & wonder what the art snobs think about Steve Jobs quoting Picasso, & Bill Gates quoting Van Gogh, as saying: "A good artist copies but a great artist steals"? as a personal insult. I can now see how Debra took it as a put down but I swear it was not meant that way. But, if my using the term art snob ended two threads about art, that is not my fault. I refuse to believe that Joni lovers are that sensitive or squeemish! You all must surely know by now that I am a sometimes irreverent, always opinionated, writer. & I tend to get fired up when people put down Joni's voice, guitar playing, & painting. Many times I've regretted posting my enthusiasm for the woman I consider to be the greatest songwriter/artist of our century because - believe it or not - I'm a shy person. I've been a painter/photographer/graphic artist most of my life & Joni Mitchell has influenced me enormously. & the older I get the more I appreciate her unparalleled contributions. To me the paintings on Mingus, Turbulent Indigo, and Taming The Tiger dwarf anything I've seen by Picasso or Dali. This is just my subjective personal opinion & I guess that makes me a Joni snob.... I have friends who are proud to be jazz snobs & wine snobs. I tell them so to their face when they dismiss Joni as a jazz wannabe or snub my $10 bottle of Pinot Noir (& they agree). I never realized that snob was such a pejorative term until now. I'll try to be even more careful with my colorful language from now on. But, ya know, that really takes the fun out of writing. E.T. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #275 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?