From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #272 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, June 22 1999 Volume 04 : Number 272 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: You Are Your Car [dsk ] Shawn Phillips (VLJC) ["P. Henry" ] Joni's influence [Krys & Geoff ] Re: jones & joan (very little JC) ["Kakki" ] Re: JONI UNDER THE COVERS ["P. Henry" ] Woodstock - chart position [Krys & Geoff ] NJC Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCor] NJC Re: Sucking the life? [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] NJC Re: EBay & Joni [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] Re: the high tidemark of the sixties [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordan] NJC Re: Joni vs. Joan and the Singer/Songwriter debate - ... [Bob.Muller/] Re: You Are Your Car [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: You Are Your Car/"Art snobs" NJC [Ginamu@aol.com] Dylan/Simon concert review [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: You Are Your Car/"Art snobs" NJC [catman ] Re: Joni vs. Joan and the Singer/Songwriter debate - quite long I'm afraid (surprise, surprise!) [Don R] The Posall and Mosalm (POC) [simon@icu.com] an Inquiry ~ re: Today in Joni History [simon@icu.com] Re: the high tidemark of the sixties [JRMCo1@aol.com] The Political Joni Mitchell [Don Rowe ] Re: The Political Joni Mitchell [Phyliss Ward ] Re: The Posall and Mosalm (POC) [catman ] Win video cds of Joni, Joan and other greats! [JRMCo1@aol.com] RE: the wrong joan always gets the credit! [Bounced Message ] Jonis Jazz [Christopher Kornmann ] NJC: re E-bay, etc. [Kate Tarasenko ] Re: 'A Case Of You' ~ Joni's Intro (longer) ["P. Henry" ] Lightening the mood (NJC) [LOREN CARTER ] syncronicity ["P. Henry" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 03:05:51 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: You Are Your Car Eric Taylor wrote: > > Last night I watched The Pirates Of Silicon Valley on TNT & wonder what the > art snobs think about Steve Jobs quoting Picasso, & Bill Gates quoting Van > Gogh, as saying: "A good artist copies but a great artist steals"? Art snobs? You mean anyone that knows more about art than you do? You throw an insult like that out and you think you're going to get an answer? Think again. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:59:20 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Shawn Phillips (VLJC) hey gang, I just stumbled upon an old favorite of mine, Shawn Phillips, another great singer/songwriter from the old days who, like Joni, wrote some great songs and had a phenomenal voice and a charismatic presentation. also like Joni he started out in the mid 60's, although then he was a rather unremarkable folksinger, doing mostly trad folk covers (and frankly I did better on some of those songs than he did) with only a few of his own songs. I did not become aware of him until ten years later when he was hitting his peak and let me tell you, he was awesome! if you'd like to hear what I mean, go here: http://www.shawnphillips.com/discography.html and check out the realaudio *complete* songs from his 70's albums... a few of my favorites are 'breakthrough', 'hey miss lonely', and 'woman'... also, unlike Joni, he never achieved superstardom though he apparently still tours... I wouldn't be surprised to find a bunch of his fans on this list. *S* pat NP: (of course) Hey Miss Lonely - S. Phillips Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:37:15 +0100 From: Krys & Geoff Subject: Joni's influence In message , IVPAUL42@aol.com writes > >Let's see Prince, Indigo Girls, every single Joni wanna be singer > songwriter > >(ie Jewel, Jonatha Brooke, The Neilds,etc) , Michael Hedges (by her use of > >open tunings), Rickie Lee Jones, Shawn Colvin, David Crosby (he does a > bunch > >of her songs), Jimmy Page, Heart, Annie Lenox, and I am sure I am > forgetting > >at least one person! Tori Amos, a self confessed Joni fan who said in an early interview that "Blue" was a constant companion during some tough times. She has done a beautiful cover of "A case of You", worth checking out if you haven't heard it. Fish (ex-Marillion front man) is a big Joni fan (his lyrical style is very wordy and descriptive), as is current Marillion front man Steve Hogarth (H). And Kate Bush, who never usually mentions female influences, did once let Joni's name slip! :) I believe that if not directly influenced by Joni's style, many people have been inspired by her. Love and peace, Krys XX ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:58:46 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: jones & joan (very little JC) Barbara wrote: > i think i know what you mean here as far as deeply connecting with the > listener, but i can't agree about joan's vs. joni's activism. joan has lived > activism for decades. she travels into third world countries to help one on > one & to do benefit shows. she still does a lot of benefits here in the US on > a regular basis. her songs are generally much more political, and her life > follows suit. i give joni credit for doing as many benefits as she does, but > her level of activism doesn't compare to joan's. The ultimate goal of activism is to effect social change, ideally for the better. I guess the starting and ending point for me is not a numbers game of how many miles are traveled or how many benefits are done but, rather, how well you succeed in reaching, changing, comforting peoples' hearts. In that context, most of those who bring us music could be considered activists for social good on a very elemental level. In that respect, I believe that Joni has given of herself and achieved that basic goal every bit as much as Joan, even though she took a different path or approach to do it. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 03:44:55 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: JONI UNDER THE COVERS Martin wrote: >>I get so little time on the computer, it's all I can do to keep up.>> I'm another waybehinder and in fact am posting this fully realizing that, by now the thread has long come and gone and nobody cares anymore. >>I wonder what is the worst cover of a Joni song ever? My candidate has to be Nazareth's destruction of 'This Flight tonight'. If there are a lot of suggestions, perhaps tape tree 11 could be the tree from hell! :-) Is this a topic worthy of discussion?>> oh yes, martin, and I'm guessing that by now you know this is an almost perfect threadstarter! ok, now for my vote: *pulling on asbestos longjohns* actually, though I wouldn't number myself among Nazareth's fans, I like their rendition of TFT if only for the hearing of it in a more trad rock mode. no, to me the only Joni-cover worse than Dave Van Ronk's version of BSN has GOT to be Dave Van Ronk's version of STAS and if you don't believe me or just want to see what I'm talking about, go to: http://www.tunes.com/release/default.asp?from=&relid=44873 and give a listen. now, to be fair, both songs were recorded when ol' Dave was past his days and to give the man his due, when he WAS 'in his days' he was damn good! this can be heard quite plainly in his pre-'61 recordings here: http://www.tunes.com/release/default.asp?from=&relid=41710 pat NP: STAS - Joni Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:18:57 +0100 From: Krys & Geoff Subject: Woodstock - chart position In message , Randy Remote writes >> >> >> Where was this? It certainly is NOT true in the U.S., where the CSN version >> is the one that got the most airplay. > >I don't know if Matthew's version reached #1 in the US, but it >did get substantial airplay on the pre-FM airwaves. >RR > Matthews Southern Comfort took Woodstock to the # 1 position in the UK single chart in 1970, and remained in the charts for 18 weeks. Sleeve notes from a boxed collection in my possession read as follows (slightly abridged): "Southern Comfort's only British chart hit was a beautiful, countrified version of Joni Mitchell's celebrated song about the Woodstock festival of 1969. Leader Ian Matthews was a former member of Fairport Convention...One of the most evocative sounds of the 70s - thanks as much to Gordon Huntley's steel guitar work as to Matthews' plaintive vocal - Woodstock offers a fitting tribute to the peace and love dream that inspired the whole hippy era." Love and peace, Krys XX ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:04:47 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: NJC Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! Catgirl informs: << (Annie Lenox played with a band called The Eurythmics). >> And I read in the new RS that Dave (Stewart) & Annie are re-teaming for a new Eurythmics release later this year. So "Sweet Dreams" to all the Eurythmic fans out there... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:36:19 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: NJC Re: Sucking the life? Simon s*id: <> Burt Bacharach, Randy Newman, Kris Kristofferson to name 3... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:50:21 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: NJC Re: EBay & Joni Paul & Grateful Dave join in to say: ***>and we find those who use this list for >their own commercial or profit-making >motives to be repugnant. Entirely different subject, one with which I happen to agree. *** Hear Hear!! I too feel strongly about stemming this tide of blatant commercialism. To further that end, I've written a book called "Keeping your List Commercial Free", available now in paperback, for only $9.95. Call BR-549 and have that credit card ready!! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:44:51 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: the high tidemark of the sixties Drew said: <> <> Thanks for the expansion of your statement...even though I tend to think of Blue as more personal and emotional-vomiting in nature whereas Hejira, even though it was written from a personal standpoint, is more universal in nature. Like you say, Joni is not aware of how certain things she writes will affect us. ..... <> It stands for "She is Queen Undisputedly of Mind Beauty" Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:19:57 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: NJC Re: Joni vs. Joan and the Singer/Songwriter debate - ... Subject: NJC Re: Joni vs. Joan and the Singer/Songwriter debate - quite long --------------------------------- Helen submitted: << But artists like Bonnie Raitt for example, who doesn't write many of her own songs, will take other people's songs (who don't, or can't perform), and give them a voice. >> And to take that one step further Helen, she acknowledged the writers of the songs (John Prine, Joey Spaminato, Larry Klein, etc.) prior to performing their songs and even said "The reason I mention these writers is so that they can get their due before they're dead". She's a great example of an artist who can find a gem and polish it in their own way. As much as I would love to have heard her play "Midway", I would have been a blubbering mess if she had. Also, in my review, I neglected to mention that she did a very emotional reading of "I can't make you love me" which welled up a lot of eyes, including mine. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:48:35 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: You Are Your Car When one finds oneself quoting cheezy TV shows to make a statement its time to stop watching TV and start reading great books. marcel deste. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:52:23 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: You Are Your Car/"Art snobs" NJC > Eric Taylor wrote: > > > > Last night I watched The Pirates Of Silicon Valley on TNT & wonder what > the > > art snobs think about Steve Jobs quoting Picasso, & Bill Gates quoting Van > > Gogh, as saying: "A good artist copies but a great artist steals"? > Then Debra retorted with: > > Art snobs? You mean anyone that knows more about art than you do? > You throw an insult like that out and you think you're going to get an > answer? > Think again. I do find the term "art snob" to be an unfortunate one but for less personal reasons than Debra. I think it creates an even more unpenetrable borderline (thank you Joni) than already exists between the classes in this country in regard to the arts. It's sort of a reverse snobbishness, IMO. As someone who has difficulty with the divisiveness of the economic structure in the U.S., I do have to say that one of the few positive results of big money in this country is what's put toward supporting the arts. When you think about it, it's not usually that expensive to access an art museum. I believe at the Met for instance, one is allowed to contribute what one can afford to pay for admission. (Theater, dance and musical performances of all kinds, on the other hand, seem very out of reach for the mainstream). In regard to art, I believe there exists a more invisible obstacle and that is the attitude that art is just for "art snobs". It's really too bad. Take care, Gina NP: Fumbling Toward Ecstasy - Sarah McLauchlin (still haven't made up my mind about her) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:05:46 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Dylan/Simon concert review I thought this might be of interest to some on the list and there *is* a Joni mention. Simon, Dylan Do themselves justice (6-21-99) Paul Simon; Bob Dylan (Arrowhead Pond of Anaheim, 16,000 seats, $125 top) By Phil Gallo ANAHEIM, Calif. (Variety) - Artists working their way through greatest-hits concerts usually struggle with lifting a performance beyond rote renditions. The critical community, naturally, cringes at the thought of yet another superstar mindlessly working his or her way through a decades-old song at the expense of new material. Yet, Bob Dylan and Paul Simon, with no new discs to peddle, did justice to their great bodies of work in this brilliant yet unlikely pairing -- even teaming up masterfully on ``Sounds of Silence'' and ``Knockin' on Heaven's Door.'' In opening the show -- they alternate the headlining spot in this 22-city tour -- Dylan devoted eight of his 12 songs to classics from the 1960s. He bookended his set with a pair of tunes that characterize the energy level of his last two years of constant touring: The rousing gospel-bluegrass number ``Hallelujah, I'm Ready to Go'' and Buddy Holly's Bo Diddley-inspired ``Not Fade Away.'' Simon, on the other hand, began with a dramatic reworking of one of his best-known pieces, ``Bridge Over Troubled Water,'' orchestrating the intro with a gong and cello. Backed by his usual large band, which featured a number of players from his 1991 unit, Simon made use of their percussive heft in a set dominated by material from ``Rhythm of the Saints'' and ``Graceland.'' Whereas Dylan used his harmonica as a melodic, soloing instrument and adjusted his phrasing to the point where lyrics don't rhyme, Simon pushed along ``Mrs. Robinson'' to country trucking-song rhythm and magnified the Latin undercurrent in ``Late in the Evening'' before turning it into a jubilant blues. Both performers were animated and smiling, the Pond's stunningly clear acoustics driving home their significance as songwriters. For many, this wasn't just familiar music, these were songs that have affected the way we approach life. Dylan has been consistently impressive in the 1990s in removing the simple, nostalgic impulse that a familiar song triggers, forcing the audience to listen, on this night, intently to ``Mr. Tambourine Man,'' ``It's All Over Now, Baby Blue'' and, in duet with Simon, ``Knockin' on Heaven's Door.'' (They also partnered on a medley of ``I Walk the Line'' and ``Blue Moon of Kentucky''). For his part, Simon turned on the power on ``Boy in the Bubble,'' ``Me and Julio Down by the Schoolyard'' and ``Graceland,'' a masterpiece that should eventually be recognized as one of the finest songs composed in the 20th century. His horn section, led by trumpeter Chris Botti, whose third contemporary jazz album has just been released on Verve, provided tremendous shading throughout the evening that included only one song from his Broadway endeavor, ``The Capeman,'' which he said ``was really good.'' The song, ``Trailways Bus,'' hints at the quality of the music and lyrics of ``Capeman''; its failure was strictly the lack of a gripping story. Simon and Dylan perform Tuesday night at the Hollywood Bowl, and Simon will do a solo show Wednesday at the House of Blues. The tour stops at New York's Madison Square Garden on July 27. As Dylan continues to pair off with a legend each summer -- last year was Van Morrison and Joni Mitchell -- audiences will start to thirst for a third go-round of this pleasant exercise. May we suggest Neil Young? Presented by Nederlander/SFX Entertainment. Bands: (Paul Simon) Mark Stewart, Vincent Nguini, Jay Ashby, Chris Botti, Tony Cedras, Steve Gadd, Allain Mallet, Andy Snitzer, Bakithi Kumalo, Steve Shehan, Jamey Haddad; (Bob Dylan) Larry Campbell, Dave Kemper, Tony Garnier, Charlie Sexton. Reviewed June 20, 1999. Reuters/Variety ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:07:30 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: You Are Your Car/"Art snobs" NJC In this country we have the 'wonderfull' Brian Sewell, art critic and outrageous snob. i defy anyone to read his or listen to his reviews and not see what a snob he is! I once did a brief cousrse in art history;it totally ruined art for me. Gone were the days I could look at a painting and think'that's nice'. The teacher and some of the pupils spoke in a language I di not understand and werte clearly amused at my 'ignorant' comments. I think this is why people tend to think of such people as 'art snobs'. I think i would appreciatye having a few dali's hanging around my home and although The Scream by Munch is one painting I will not forget, i wouldn't want it hanging around! As for the Mona Lisa I don't car for it, it is dull to me. I haven't seen a Van Gogh that grabs me but i love Joni's pastiche of one on TI and would have that hanging in my home.(assuming of course I could find room with all my tacky cat and dog pics all over!!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:47:45 +0300 From: j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi Subject: Re: EBAY Again - please help > Can someone, anyone, put an end to these illegal, unethical auctions > on > EBAY? > > A certain Dr. Pepper is auctioning off the following live cassettes > at: > > http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=drpepper4 > > He's got some gr8 stuff including JONI, JEFFERSONS, JORMA, BROMBERG, > DICKIE BETTS, KINGFISH and more. > > I'd wager he keeps the masters and auctions copies. Wrong either way. I've e-mailed in similar cases or when I've been let down in one way or another to these addresses: buddyitems@ebay.com safeharbor@ebay.com ctywatch@ebay.com Report@ebay.com isanchez@ebay.com I'm not sure which one exactly deals with illegal auctions - I would CC the message to them all. eBay has answered all my e-mails, though I'm aware they don't have a good reputation in it. I found myself in a real battle a short while ago, trying to track down a bad seller who had conned me of my money and continued to sell CDR's of unauthorized material. I swore to myself that I would make things as hard as I could for him. I got eBay to cancel the seller's ID, but he appeared with a new e-mail, ID and the same illegal CDR's. I did the process at least three times and each time the ID was cancelled. I noticed that eBay was pretty fast to act on these kinds of reports, each cancelling took only days. I think the seller's given up now cause I can't find the auctions anymore. So it's worth it. I hope that helps. - --jussi - ------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 06:42:12 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Dylan/Simon concert review > ANAHEIM, Calif. (Variety) - Artists working their way through greatest-hits > concerts usually struggle with lifting a performance beyond rote renditions. > The critical community, naturally, cringes at the thought of yet another > superstar mindlessly working his or her way through a decades-old song at the > expense of new material. I wonder if this is one of the same critics who complained that Joni did too many 'obscure' and 'newer' songs when she toured with Dylan last year? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:53:56 -0600 From: Kate Subject: what's happening? I haven't received a digest in a week or so. What's going on? Kate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 06:55:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni vs. Joan and the Singer/Songwriter debate - quite long I'm afraid (surprise, surprise!) - --- "Helen M. Adcock" wrote: > She may have been > "bracketed" as a folk > singer when she started. Let's face it, if you were > a female singing solo > with an acoustic guitar in the mid to late sixties, > what else would you be > categorised as? Morrissey once made the lyrical quip, "Well I thought that if you had an acoustic guitar/It meant you were a pro-test singer/I can laugh about it now but at the time it was terrible ..." And you know, since he's a big Joni fan himself, I'm sure he gets a great chuckle over Joni's own consternation at the persistence of the "folk" label. I mean really, if doing "Mingus" couldn't kill it off, what's a girl to do? Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:05:31 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: The Posall and Mosalm (POC) James A. Murray posted >_________________________________________________ >Subject: The Posall and Mosalm for sale on EBay > >There is a nifty Joni album on ebay. >cheers, jimbo >_________________________________________________ Jimbo, there's nothing nifty about this. as Neil Young would say, this 'Posall and Mosalm' LP is a real Piece Of Crap (POC). this is absolutely one of the *worst* sounding Pieces Of Sh*t (POS) i've ever heard i my life. besides, this music was made available to JMDL members on TapeTree #3. the complete program, not the bits 'n' pieces offered up by Bootlegger$. the contents are listed below. for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- > > > TapeTree #3 > > ----------------------------- > Cassette #1, Side #1: C-90 > ----------------------------- > > JONI MITCHELL > 2-Hour Retrospective > WMMR-FM > Phila, Pa. (Broadcast ~ Jan. 29, 1974) > > 2ND FRET - Phila, Pa., 11-17-66 > Interview, Chuck & Joni Mitchell > > FOLKLORE PROGRAM > the Circle Game, 11-19-66 (w/Chuck Mitchell) > Sugar Mountain, 5-28-67 > > 2ND FRET - Phila, Pa. 3-17-67 > Interview > > FOLKLORE PROGRAM, 3-12-67 > Both Sides, Now > Interview > > 2ND FRET - Phila, Pa., 3-17-67 > Mr. Blue > Carnival In Kenora > >---------------------- > Cassette #1, Side #2 >---------------------- > > FOLKLORE PROGRAM, 3-19-67 > Just Like Me > Eastern Rain > Blue On Blue > > 2ND Fret - Phila, Pa., 3-17-67 > Born To Take The Highway > Winter Lady > > 2ND Fret - Phila, Pa., 10-12-67 > London Bridge Song > >----------------------------- > Cassette #2, Side #1: C-90 >----------------------------- > > WMMR-FM ~ 2-Hour Retrospective Part 2 > > FOLKLORE PROGRAM, Fall 1968 > Sisotowbell Lane > The Gallery > > 2ND FRET - Phila, Pa., 10-12-67 > Go Tell The Drummer Man > Conversation (w/extra verse) > > The CIRCLE GAME > Ian & Sylvia > Buffy Saint-Marie > Tom Rush > >----------------------- > Cassette #2, Side #2 >---------------------- > > JONI MITCHELL > 2nd Fret > Phila, Pa. > 10-12-67 > > 2nd Set > > Little Green > Marcy > London Bridge Song > Ballerina Valerie > Michael From Mountains > Go Tell The Drummer Man > I Don't Know Where I Stand > Both Sides, Now > > > SONG TO A SEAGULL > Buffy Saint-Marie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:08:52 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: an Inquiry ~ re: Today in Joni History recently there were several items posted as part of Les' continuing 'Today in Joni History' series. often these listings only give the date and city of a concert, and don't include the name of the venue. i am in the process of compiling a complete Itinerary of all Joni's concert and radio/tv appearances for inclusion on the 'Official' Joni Mitchell HomePage maintained by Wally Breese. please contact me if you can fill in any of these missing details. 1. Today in Joni History - June 17, 1972: Joni performs in Paris. i have infomation regarding a concert at the Olympia Theatre on June 15. however, i was recently speaking with a friend who saw Joni in Paris in 1972 and he tells me that the concert(s) was at La Salle Pleyel. can anyone clarify this? 2. Today in Joni History - June 16, 1983: Joni performs in Irvine, Ca. anyone know the name of the hall where this concert took place? 3. Today in Joni History - June 14, 1983: Joni performs in Universal City, Ca. anyone know the name of the hall where this concert took place? 4. i also need the names of concert halls for the following shows: 08-16-69 __?__ Chicago, Ill. 08-09-74 __?__ Toronto, Ontario 07-22-79 __?__ New York, N.Y. 08-17-79 __?__ East Troy, Mi. 03-03-83 __?__ Osaka, Japan 05-13-83 __?__ Oslo, Norway 07-20-83 __?__ Boston, Ma. any assistance will be greatly appreciated. thankx. for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:13:05 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: the high tidemark of the sixties Bob.Muller writes: << ...even though I tend to think of Blue as more personal and emotional-vomiting in nature whereas Hejira, even though it was written from a personal standpoint, is more universal in nature. Like you say, Joni is not aware of how certain things she writes will affect us. >> That's a disgusting characterization of Blue, Bob. Have a heart, will ya? I think Joni was referring to songs like the ones she wrote for Blue when she referred to "portraits of a disappointment" being her favorite theme at one time (MOA). Perhaps you've never had any, but most everyone I know has at one time or another in personal relationships. If *that's* not universal, pray tell, what on Hejira is? "The hexagon of the heavens/the strings of my guitar"? I think not, albeit just as lovely a sentiment in my mind. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:40:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: The Political Joni Mitchell With all the discussion of activism, politically motivated music and Joan Baez comparisons, I've been thinking about Joni's more openly "political/protest" list of titles. There are quite a few, just that I can list off the top of my head without reading between the lines, so to speak. I'm sure there are MANY others that are escaping me now, as I must hurry off to do some "real work" ... 1. Otis and Marlena 2. Dog Eat Dog 3. Ethiopia 4. No Apologies 5. The Magdalene Laundries 6. Not To Blame 7. Fiction 8. Cherokee Louise 9. Beat of Black Wings 10. Big Yellow Taxi 11. Lakota 12. Passion Play _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:58:15 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: The Political Joni Mitchell Don Rowe wrote: > I'm sure there are MANY others that are escaping me now, as I must > hurry > off to do some "real work" ... > How about.. Banquet Sex Kills > > 1. Otis and Marlena > 2. Dog Eat Dog > 3. Ethiopia > 4. No Apologies > 5. The Magdalene Laundries > 6. Not To Blame > 7. Fiction > 8. Cherokee Louise > 9. Beat of Black Wings > 10. Big Yellow Taxi > 11. Lakota > 12. Passion Play > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:12:56 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The Posall and Mosalm (POC) You know I can't believe some of the tight arsed responses people get when they send something in in good faith. Don't let it get to you Jimbo. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:26:21 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Win video cds of Joni, Joan and other greats! MGVal writes: << I enjoyed reading the posts on the Great Joan/Joni Debate and have been spinning Diamonds and Rust ad nasuseum for the past two days because of it. >> I've also been reading the Joni/Joan thread with, um, interest. Thought this would be as good a time as any to announce that I'm sending a double video cd of the 1970 Isle of Wight Festival (aka Britain's very own Woodstock) to Ashara to include in one of the Jonifest raffles. In addition to live video and sound performances by Joni *and* Joan, the lucky winner will be treated to performances by Leonard Cohen, Miles Davis, Donovan, The Doors, Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, Kris Kristofferson, The Moody Blues, Ten Years After, Tiny Tim, John Sebastian, The Who, Free, Jethro Tull, the Plastic Ono Band, Free and Emerson, Lake & Palmer. The jewel box also includes a cool "Message to Love" booklet with photos and reproductions of the concert poster. Here's an excerpt of some of the text therein: "There were lots of unexpected moments: Jimi Hendrix, whose sound was mixed by Pink Floyd's David Gilmour, included both the British National Anthem and the Beatle's 'Sargeant Pepper' in his set as nods to the occasion." "Joni Mitchell had worse luck, as we see in the video cd: her set was gatecrashed by a bearded revolutionary, and she did well to recover her composure." There's much more on Joni's performance in the booklet, but to the winner go those spoils. Keep those checks for Wally B. coming in, gang. This is going to be the raffle of a lifetime for Joni fans it appears. Really hoping I can make it in person though. By the way, the video cds will play on PCs with an MPEG board, Apple Mac's with same, CDi players with FMV cartridge and 3DO players. I think it plays on DVD players, too (but I'm not sure). Duration: 137 minutes. I'll see you in September, I hope. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:08:41 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: RE: the wrong joan always gets the credit! From: "Liron Weiss" Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:10:14 +0300 Catgirl wrote: "It always bugged me that there are some who just sing others music. Sure they sound good but where is the real talent in that?" I am NOT a Joan Baez fan. I too own one CD of hers - Greatest Hits, and it has never touched me like every single one of my 14 JM CDs have. But I do think that "talent" is in some ways subjective. For example - My father and my sister HATE JM. They just don't like her voice. And I suppose whoever is reading this now including me just went - WHAT???!!! How can anyone not like an incredible musician such a JM?! But not everyone has the same taste in music, and that's the beauty of it - each listener interprets the music differently. Only a very small amount of people on this earth are blessed with the "divine inspiration" to write beautiful songs like Joni Mitchell does, and the rest of us can show their souls in different ways. Be it a touching voice or a style of singing full of emotion, but not everyone can write music. And good music for that matter. In this debate I vote Joni Mitchell in every category, but I think that Joan Baez maybe touched people (without writing her own music) in a way us JM fans might not be able to understand. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:09:49 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: RE: the wrong joan always gets the credit! NJC From: "Liron Weiss" Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:07:11 +0300 Takats wrote: "But what's so good about making your livings as a singer if you bludge off other people's work? I think it's almost embarrassing to be famous as a singer, but have none of your own to show for it. Anyone and everyone can sing a song, but to have written it and have that special meaning that you can take to your audience...that is precious." Is it me or is the above really harsh?! Art is a very complex term. Artists can either be technicians - have amazing technical skills in their art - drawing, singing, playing an instrument, photography, sculpting...whatever. Just having that ability is a start, and every good artist had to start as a technician. Only then can your "artistic ability" be rated by the "personal touch" you add to your art. And as I've said before - not everyone can be creative and bring the world something of their own. And who is any of us, us fans sitting at home in front of our computer screens and occasionally going to concerts (me going to none 'cause I live in nowhereland), to criticize singers who are not songwriters?! What the above message implied is that there is no room in the music industry for performance without songwriting and IMHO that is simply unacceptable. Liron. PS - Not everyone can "sing a song"! obviously... And how about Whitney Houston as an example for an amazing vocalist who doesn't write her own music? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:00:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Voice and Talent (NJC) Catgirl writes ... > "It always bugged me that there are some who just > sing others music. > Sure they sound good but where is the real talent in > that?" Not to singe the fur, but there is every bit as much talent involved in singing as there is in playing a musical instrument, or composing lyrics. Stong vocalists use their vocal chords the way Joni uses the strings of her guitar, and must not only be blessed with innate physical characteristics, but a mental toughness and awareness of their own shortcomings in order to continually improve their technique. Singing is every bit as physicallly demanding as playing an instrument, in some cases, more so -- and also requires every bit as much dedication and concentration as musical composition. My violin teacher once said that mastery creates the illusion of a swan gliding over still waters of a pond or lake. It looks effortless and graceful, but just beneath the surface there is a great deal of effort being expended, combined with a life of refining the "gliding" technique. If you prefer sports, think of Major League Baseball -- the players make it look so easy -- but this is far from the actual case. In this way, I've learned to appreciate artists like Frank Sinatra, Natalie Cole, Diana Krall, Joe Cocker and others who for the most part, do not compose, but use their talent and dedication to create meaningful, lasting interpretations of others' creations. Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:22:40 -0400 From: Christopher Kornmann Subject: Jonis Jazz Forgive me if this has already been posted. I have been off-line for a while, but one of my favorite performers, Joy Askew will be a part of “Joni’s Jazz” — a special tribute to Joni Mitchell taking place at Summerstage in Central Park, NYC on Thursday, July 1st at 7:30pm. She’ll be performing “Down To You” with Joe Jackson on piano and opening the second set with one of my favorites “Coyote”. She will also be playing with the band throughout the show. Other performers include: Chaka Khan, Holly Cole, Vernon Reid, Duncan Shiek, Jane Sibery and more... For more information check out their website at: www.SummerStage.org Should be a good time!! - -- Christopher Kornmann Graphic Designer Spit & Image 828 Waring Avenue Bronx, NY 10467 718.798.2862 spitandimage@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:42:12 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: NJC: re E-bay, etc. I'm with Kakki on this one -- Although I personally haven't e-bay'd, I do get some near-spam occasionally from Christopher about Joy Askew and from Peter about all the musical offerings he archives, much to my delight. While I don't "buy direct," I DO get information about other artists because of these folks' efforts, and whether or not they do this in the spirit of sharing or just good ol' crass commercialism is immaterial to me. I'm just smart enough to know when my presence on the list is being exploited. Luckily, just like with anything on the JMDL that doesn't personally interest me, I can scan/delete. What I DO find a little repugnant about this issue is Paul's use of the word "we" in his objections. Unless you have someone sitting on your lap at the keyboard, I'd rather hear from all those who do indeed have a problem with these rather innocuous notices of stuff for sale -- I don't know of any such "consensus" against it. Would you hate me, too, if I were extremely wealthy? Kate in CO ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:41:08 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: 'A Case Of You' ~ Joni's Intro (longer) kakki writes: << I look at it more as biographical details. It's natural to want to know more about the artist, inventor, world leader, or any other person whom one admires. If Joni writes about being devastated in a relationship - sorry, but I do care enough about her as a person, to want to know more it, just as I would with anyone I cared about. If she writes about someone who has made her happy, inspired her, etc., I also want to know who this person is bringing joy to her life. We are only human and so is Joni. Kakki >> you make an excellent point here. now take a moment and think on just *why* you 'do care enough about her as a person'... (besides the fact of your basic niceness) isn't it a lot because *she* has made it so deeply personal by the very nature of her art? I mean, right from the beginning, the way she draws you near in the tale of 'Little Green' or 'I Had A King'... and then Catgirl writes: >>This is so well said. When I heard about her and Larry getting a divorce I felt really bad for her... After the break up didn't she come out with Turbulent Indigo? I thought she did which explains alot to me. Some of her ( and alot of artists) best music is when she is melancholy. Herjira and FTR are both like that. Lost love, feeling sad and in pain... I really identify with it. She makes me feel better hearing songs that touch me so deeply. When my old boyfriend broke up with me, I must have played Amelia a thousand times. That one line always killed me...*that sad request of me to kindly stay away*. Even as I write it now I get chills. This one line is one of the saddest lines I have ever heard in my life. She has been my voice for a long time... When I am in funk, I listen to Joni and it lifts my spirits. When I need to cry I can listen to her again and pick my favorite sad songs and let out a good long cry. She is my emotional self. I am so grateful that she was there all these years allowing me to really feel and discover who I really am! So thank you Joni! Since she has been such an inspiration in my life. I like knowing that she is happy. It makes me feel at easy and I say to myself..."Yea, I am glad you are happy again. I worry about you and want your life to be full of happiness!">> this also is very well put... there are many songwriters but few who allow the listener to approach as closely as Joni does... and I can see the validity of objection to her comments... but on the other hand, I can see her point as well, ie: just as you say here, although knowing what she has gone through enhances your understand and identification with her art, the place where the 'rubber meets the road', so to speak, is where you (we) can take these songs and make them your own, as in your example of 'Amelia' and the point where the art really breaks through and does what she wants/intends it to do is where you (we) stop identifying it with her and whatever she was experiencing when she wrote it and make it your own in just this way! if we use one of her own favorite examples of art, although there may be an intriguing personal story behind the creation of Van Gogh's 'Starry Night', isn't the real point and value of the art what it does to you inside when you view it? I can see the logic of feeling that knowing the artists life and the conditions under which the art was created can make the appreciation of it that much more delicious and, indeed, I'm sure there are many who study the life and times of Van Gogh for just this purpose... yet the case can certainly be made for just letting 'Starry Night' speak for itself. I have never taken any class in 'art appreciation' but I'd lay odds that there's something in there about appreciation not necessarily being analysis... I mean, what if there were no such info available on Joni or on the 'phase' she was in when she wrote 'Amelia'? would that line mean any less to you or produce any less 'chills'? I have, for example, the unique experience of having known the artist personally and, as I've shared before, knowing firsthand the details that precipitated the writing of 'I Had A King' *prior* to it's writing... I saw the coolness between them... I sensed the belittlement he felt in her shadow, as it were... I heard the tone of her voice and saw the look in her eyes as she told me how the situation of her greater demand and separate bookings had made it so that they would not even be in the same city for a whole year... ('The king's on the road and the queen's in the grove till the end of the year') and, as a friend, I sympathized with both of them... and yet, even knowing the 'realtime' situation *that* closely, though interesting, doesn't necessarily add anything to the heartrending beauty of the song/art itself which, I dare say, couldn't really be fully appreciated until/unless someone had gone through the painful breakdown of a relationship themself. I think what she was trying to express is that she simply wants her art to stand on it's own, and, as far as I'm concerned, it certainly does that. pat NP: Solid Love - JTOJM http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:52:39 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! - -----Original Message----- From: Helen M. Adcock >Ian Matthews band was actually called Matthews' Southern Comfort. He was >previously in Fairport Convention. MSC were a UK band and "Their version of >Woodstock was a soft country interpretation of Joni Mitchell's song and >reached No. 1 in the UK, and the Top 20 in the US > thanks Helen for the correction, I should have said it was Matthews with a band and not as a solo artist. I remember Joni posing with them on the cover of a magazine and looking fairly excited about having a number one hit. >>I'm not sure his version even REACHED the U.S. at all. >>Paul I Top 20 isn't bad I suppose, I bought my copy of the album it's on in a cut-out shop in New York. I think the tune sometimes crops up on oldies compilations. I can make a copy if anyone wants it. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:28:44 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Ian Mathews "Woodstock" Paul I, with his usual diplomacy :) writes: >Not only can I safely say that Ian Matthews' version did NOT reach #1 in the >U.S., I'm not sure his version even REACHED the U.S. at all. Who is he? Never >heard of him. Ian is a very talented folkie, who was in the original Fairport Convention with Richard Thomson, Sandy Denny et al. His version of "Woodstock" was being played a lot in LA by KDAY, a great AM station that was playing "real" music in the pre-FM days. Just because you've never heard of him doesn't mean he isn't a worthy performer. Reminds me of the person who had never heard of Eric Andersen a few weeks ago - there are a lot of people out there who are not household names, yet who have made, and continue to make fine music. Ian also recorded several of Richard Farina's songs, and in addition to Southern Comfort was in the band Plainsong. I believe he is based on the US east coast these days. Once again, humph! ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:48:37 -0400 From: LOREN CARTER Subject: Lightening the mood (NJC) All, I received this an e-mail and thought it would be a good game to lighten things up around here. With all the "art-snob" and e-bay barbs being thrown around, I thought we all could use some laughs. Lord, now I'm gonna get blasted for making the assumption that we all need cheering up...... Anyway, this little exercise caused a fleeting smile to appear on my tired, overworked, sleepy face, got any more? I spologize if you've already seen this floating around the web. I added a couple of ones I thought up. Head Lines For The Year 2000 When the end of the world arrives how will the media report it? USA Today: WE'RE DEAD The Wall Street Journal: DOW JONES PLUMMETS AS WORLD ENDS National Enquirer: O.J. AND NICOLE, TOGETHER AGAIN Playboy: GIRLS OF THE APOCALYPSE Microsoft Systems Journal: APPLE LOSES MARKET SHARE Victoria's Secret Catalog: OUR FINAL SALE Sports Illustrated: GAME OVER Wired: THE LAST NEW THING Rolling Stone: THE GRATEFUL DEAD REUNION TOUR Readers Digest: 'BYE Discover Magazine: HOW WILL THE EXTINCTION OF ALL LIFE AS WE KNOW IT AFFECT THE WAY WE VIEW THE COSMOS? TV Guide: DEATH AND DAMNATION: NIELSON RATINGS SOAR! Lady's Home Journal: LOSE 10 LBS BY JUDGEMENT DAY WITH OUR NEW "ARMAGEDDON" DIET! America Online: SYSTEM TEMPORARILY DOWN. TRY CALLING BACK IN 15 MINUTES. Inc. magazine: TEN WAYS YOU CAN PROFIT FROM THE APOCALYPSE Microsoft's Web Site: IF YOU DIDN'T EXPERIENCE THE RAPTURE, DOWNLOAD THE BETA SOFTWARE NOW. Sun: ARMAGEDDON TOLERANT SOFTWARE NOW AVAILABLE! Hustler: WHAT WAS THE POPE REALLY DOING DURING THE FINAL HOURS? PRAYING?..NOPE...ON HIS KNEES?...YES!!!! Publisher's Clearinghouse: YOU MAY HAVE WON OUR $31M PRIZE, RESPOND BEFORE MARCH 1st to CLAIM IT. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:22:46 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: syncronicity Evian says: <<...sometimes the syncronicity on this list creeps me out!>> to which Bob responds: >>I know what you mean, Evian...sometimes I feel like "Close Encounters" where we're all in our homes building the same mountain...>> which made me think of where Paul said: >>Longer than the Shawn Phillips' song from his first album? Title is: She Was Waiting At the Station for her Mother from Encino(?) and you know I love you baby but it's getting too heavy to laugh">> the first reference to SP since I joined the list in December, which I obviously didn't see until just *after* I made my recent post about him to the list! pat NP - People Are Strange - Doors (to fit the mood) Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #272 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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