From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #268 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, June 21 1999 Volume 04 : Number 268 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Danny Kirwan (NJC) [John Low ] RE: the wrong joan always gets the credit! ["Steve Haas" ] Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Joni & Joan [Leslie Mixon ] out of the mouths of babes... [some millers ] re: the wrong joan always gets the credit (some JC) ["Takats, Angela" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:52:50 PDT From: John Low Subject: Danny Kirwan (NJC) Gina wrote: >Refresh my memory. Didn't Danny do some songwriting on Bare Trees? > I want >to go out and buy this stuff on CD now! Yes, Danny Kirwan wrote songs that appeared on both "Bare Trees" and "Future Games". Rather than list them I thought you might be interested in a web site I stumbled on today that is dedicated to him. It has a complete song data base that lists all his songs and which albums they are on. The site is : http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/3856/DANNY.HTML The site appears to be very comprehensive. John. PS. Thanks, too, for the "happy Fathers' Day" wishes - but we in Australia can't celebrate until September!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:40:58 -0500 From: "Steve Haas" Subject: RE: the wrong joan always gets the credit! > Who gives a s--- about popular culture? The Captain and Tenille and the > Carpenters had a lot of influence on popular culture, too. Maybe > as much as > Joan Baez, but so what? We can disagree about that. I hardly think there is a comparison between the influence of Baez and Tenille on American culture of the 60's... However, it does bring up the question of what is art, and what value art has to society. If it doesn't appeal to people, is it really art? I don't know the answer to that, but it is interesting. > Joni Mitchell's influence has been on the music industry, in > numerous and > untold ways, including the ability now of a single woman with a guitar or > piano and some songs of her own with something to say to get heard. > THAT influence will last a lot longer than any influence anyone has on > popular culture. If that's all that Joan Baez has done, that's > faint praise, > indeed. > I would disagree with this, too. I don't see Joni's influence on many people. Perhaps you can show me people who she has influenced musically. I am just not familiar with them. IMHO, Joni was unique. She didn't generate a new form of music, new schools, or generations of musicians. It is hard to even put her music in a category. It is just HER...a perfect blending of poetry and music. she is a genius unto herself, a genius that should be appreciated for its own value, not its influence on other people... Baez, on the other hand, had an influence far beyond her music. She helped popularize folk music, the music of protest, and even helped make Bob Dylan what he is. Her music was also a tool to spread her political message, and that influence should not be taken lightly. Just my opinion. S. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 01:04:03 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! In a message dated 6/21/1999 12:43:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, steveha@email.msn.com writes: << I would disagree with this, too. I don't see Joni's influence on many people. Perhaps you can show me people who she has influenced musically. I am just not familiar with them. >> Let's see Prince, Indigo Girls, every single Joni wanna be singer songwriter (ie Jewel, Jonatha Brooke, The Neilds,etc) , Michael Hedges (by her use of open tunings), Rickie Lee Jones, Shawn Colvin, David Crosby (he does a bunch of her songs), Jimmy Page, Heart, Annie Lenox, and I am sure I am forgetting at least one person! Is anyone familiar with any of these no bodies?? ;>) Catgirl....thinking about all the interviews where Joni is asked how she feels about all the people who she influenced.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 01:07:03 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Lyric Quiz - it's finally here! In a message dated 6/20/1999 12:17:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << I'll give everyone a week , ie. until next Sunday, to reply (off-list, obviously) to hell@ihug.co.nz then I'll forward the results/answers and most lyrically knowledgable person(s) names to the list! Good luck!!! >> Some of these look pretty tough! I am going to have to get out some Cd's and give a good listen to and I will try not to cheat!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:06:34 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Lyric Quiz Hello all It has been brought to my attention that there is a lyric search engine on the JMDL web site (can't believe I've missed it)! If you want to "cheat" and look up all the songs, that's fine, but I just thought I'd emphasize the point of the quiz - and that's to see how many songs you can RECOGNISE from the lyrics, not how quickly you can look up the answers! Obviously, if people want to look up them up, then there's going to be little point in my posting the results, ie, who got the most, the quickest! But have fun anyway! Helen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:12:46 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! ><< I would disagree with this, too. I don't see Joni's influence on many > people. Perhaps you can show me people who she has influenced musically. I > am just not familiar with them. >> >Let's see Prince, Indigo Girls, every single Joni wanna be singer songwriter >(ie Jewel, Jonatha Brooke, The Neilds,etc) , Michael Hedges (by her use of >open tunings), Rickie Lee Jones, Shawn Colvin, David Crosby (he does a bunch >of her songs), Jimmy Page, Heart, Annie Lenox, and I am sure I am forgetting >at least one person! Is anyone familiar with any of these no bodies?? ;>) >Catgirl....thinking about all the interviews where Joni is asked how she >feels about all the people who she influenced.... Well said! Even Madonna has said Court and Spark was her favourite album growing up! Another notable is Sheryl Crow. Helen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 00:43:16 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Happy Fathers Day (NJC) Hello One and All and welcome to the newest listers and delurkers- I hope everyone had a beautiful fathers day. I have been trying to get to the puter all day and post but my family was busy treating me like a king. We got up late and went to the New Orleans Museum of Art to see the Degas show (which was a treat for me being a big impressionist fan) I did enjoy it very much, but was not as enthused as when the divine Ms. Kakki took me to see Van Gogh out in LA. Nonetheless, it was still cool and we went to a lovely brunch downtown with some friends and spent the rest of the afternoon recovering from too much New Orleans food and spirits) I talked to my dad and sister late today (who are out in Wally Breese country somewhere on Fisherman's Wharf) and I now I am ready to lay my weary body down. I just wanted to wish all dads on the list a Happy Day and especially to my friend Ric who is being a hell of a lot more than a father these days ( my love to you bro) and to the rest of you hope you had a great one. Michael P.S. Mikey asked me to play TTT today and told me that it is his favorite Joni. My god have a created/converted another one? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:24:41 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Joni & Joan I need to chime in to this discussion only to say that I have enormous respect for both of these ladies. I had the pleasure of seeing them perform a spontaneous duet of "Dida" at the Bread & Roses concert in 1980. I think you can tell from this photograph that they both enjoyed the experience: http://jonimitchell.com/Bread80.html Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 02:38:49 -0400 (EDT) From: some millers Subject: out of the mouths of babes... howdy- my neighbor's daughter emily, who just turned four, is apparently developing excellent taste in music. while i was watering the garden yesterday, she noticed the music i had on in the background -- from song to a seagull -- and made this statement to her mother: "mommy, this would be really good company music." perhaps emily will be hosting joni-fests someday too! buenas noches- paul s.bethlehem, ny ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:46:56 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: re: the wrong joan always gets the credit (some JC) "Steve Haas" wrote: <> But what's so good about making your living as a singer if you bludge (suck the life out of) off other people's work? I think it's almost embarrassing to be famous as a singer, but have none of your own work to show for it. Anyone and everyone can sing a song, but to have written it and have that special meaning that you can take to your audience...that is precious. <> And thank God she is...she actually puts out QUALITY music and poetry and art, unlike most things relating to "popular culture". I look at famous artists that have made it "mainstream" and think most of their work is total crap - it's made for the masses who have no real appreciation for GOOD music, clever lyrics. I'm not saying there's no place for popular music, but I wouldn't put 'pop success' on a platform. <> I have found the posts about joan and joni very interesting...I feel that I kind of understand why Baez gets her "page space" in the books I have read, she was influential....but I spose I wanted to know whether the "page space" came from her musical abilites/song writing. After reading so many posts on the issue and listening to her covers of songs I think my conclusion is NO. She was just on the scene at the right time and had a loud voice, with an attitude to match. And that's why it will continue to annoy me that people use her name in the same sentence as Joni, when talking about fantastic musicians/talented singers of that era..... Totally biased thoughts from Ange in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 00:50:19 -0600 From: evian Subject: JMDL READER'S CLUB (NJC) Leslie came up with a good observation: > It seems that many of us share similar tastes and interests. How about > a JMDL reader's club. I'd appreciate recommendations from list members > of some of their favorite books. > > I actually was just thinking about this and was going to post last night (until the sunburn from hell made me too cranky) that those who loved BRIDGET JONES'S DIARY would probably also love Armestead Maupin's MAYBE THE MOON, a book I seem to reread for pure pleasure every year or so. And Leslie, THE PILOT'S WIFE was one of those Oprah book of the month books a few months back, and I just have to say that basically every single Oprah selection has turned out to be a wonderful book... especially Wally Lamb's SHE'S COME UNDONE and Ursula Hegi's STONES FROM THE RIVER.... and all the Oprah books are dirt cheap! Since I seem to spend tons of money I don't have every month on books (as my mailperson can tell you), if anyone wants any recommendations for reading, just email me and I will gladly be the book recommender! If anyone is interested in doing some sort of online book group thing, we could meet once a month or something on ICQ or IRC or somewhere, and discuss a particular book... sounds like fun to me. BTW Leslie, you also can't go wrong with anything by Louise Erdrich, Nancy Mairs, Maupin, Toni Morrison, Carol Shields, or May Sarton, imho. Evian nr: Woolf's TO THE LIGHTHOUSE (for a class), Fenton Johnson's GEOGRAPHY OF THE HEART and Thomas Couser's RECOVERING BODIES: ILLNESS, DISABILITY AND LIFE WRITING (for my thesis), THE JOURNALS OF MARY SHELLEY (for teaching), and rereading Judy Blume's SUMMER SISTERS (for fun). ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #268 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. 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