From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #267 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Sunday, June 20 1999 Volume 04 : Number 267 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- the wrong Joan NJC [Robert Holliston ] Re: radio station ["P. Henry" ] Re: blue [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! ["Lisa Peakes" ] Attention Californians! (NJC) [Ashara@aol.com] Re: Plug Of The Week #24 NJC [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Father's Day (NJC) [Zapuppy@webtv.net (Rick & Penny Gibbons)] Re: the wrong Joan NJC [MGVal@aol.com] Joni on NPR [Bounced Message ] RE: the wrong joan always gets the credit! ["Steve Haas" ] Re: Fleetwood Mac (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Fwd: Father's Day Founder Left Legacy [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! [Randy Remote ] Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fl] Re: Where's Catgirl NJC [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: JONI, James & A Case Of You [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Fleetwood Mac (NJC) [philipf@tinet.ie] EBAY Again - please help [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)] VLJC: Bonnie Raitt Concert Review [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Joni sings out! ["P. Henry" ] Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! [IVPAUL42@aol.com] biased on baez njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: biased on baez njc and protest songs of the 90's [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: biased on baez njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: EBAY Again - please help NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 01:59:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Holliston Subject: the wrong Joan NJC Hey, y'all! I'm with MG on this one - I have loved Joan Baez since since I was 11 (which was before Joni recorded anything), largely because of her voice and the expressiveness of her singing. Also, she was a major force during the 1960s. However, I certainly agree that her strength is not as a songwriter, and she has said herself that she is not driven in any way to make music ("I'm not your intense musician - at the first rehearsal before a tour, my fingers are usually too soft to play my guitar" - I'm paraphrasing, but that's the essence of one of her interviews). To me, her strength has always been her ability to put a folk song across (to me, after all these years, that is more important and enduring than her championing of Bob Dylan's songs). Her artistry is much too important and long-lived to dismiss as if she only attained fame because she slept with Dylan (she was famous before he was). I've been lucky enough to see Joan Baez twice in concert. The first time was in London in 1977, just her and her guitar. It remains one of the most enchanting evenings I've ever spent. The second time was in Vancouver in 1983 - she had a back-up band and it was less enchanting (though I'm still glad I went). The last time I saw Joan Baez was on TV - she led the congregation at Polly Klass's funeral in singing Amazing Grace. Somehow it was fitting that she was there. I could go on and on about Joan Baez, but that's all for now! very best to all, Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 02:30:09 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: radio station Terry writes: >>What a gem of a site! I'm listening to Crazy Cries right now! This is great, Ken.>> terry, I agree 100%! ken, thanks so much! what a great idea! it really IS my dream radio station! I just finished hearing 'night in the city', 'for the roses', 'woodstock' and 'the crazy cries of love... all in a row!!! there is no radio station on earth where you would hear that, unless it was a special! then when there is a break from Joni, it's filled with all my other favorites! cool! pat NP: Your Love Is King - Sade ps - here's mine: http://www.imagineradio.com/mymusiclisten.asp?name=amigo2joni Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:06:01 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: blue newbie drew writes: << are there any other blue fans out there? >> I love Blue with a purple passion. Every song on the album goes straight to my heart. It's the first Joni album I ever heard and the memory of that first listen is indelible. Joni may not look back, but I certainly do. I can still see the flicker of candles and smell the too-sweet aroma of incense burning in my friend Wendy's dorm room the night she played it for me during my freshmen year of college in Northern California back in '79. "You're gonna like this," she said with a mischievous grin, as she carefully ran a velvety disc cleaner across her precious vinyl and ever so gingerly set the needle down on Blue. Then the most beautiful music I had ever heard filled my soul. How right she was. Oh, how I miss Joni's mastery of the acoustic guitar and dulcimer in her more contemporary compositions! The primal quality of her strumming style and uniquely tuned chords reverberating against wood, coupled with her sweet, high voice tinged with melancholia, touch me in ways her VG8 hasn't thus far. Also, to me, Blue embodies the pinnacle of Joni's lyrical genius. But, alas, that was then and this is now. I certainly appreciate Joni now, too, but that first cut remains the deepest for me. With the help of a friend I've written an arrangement of "Little Green" for alto saxophone. If there are any horn players out there who would like a copy, just say the word. Thanks for bringing up Blue, Drew. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:47:01 -0400 From: "Lisa Peakes" Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! < > Another difference is that, with few exceptions (Lambert, Hendrick, & Ross, and - oh, who did "Why Do Fools Fall in Love"? - and now the jazz standards project), Joni shies from other peoples' material. I'd almost consider Baez a "song stylist" - but I know she takes a turn with the pen, too. ("Diamonds and Rust" is really good - did she write that? I'm not very conversant in her work) But, yeah, Baez has tended to claim a noisier platform for a cause - or maybe she's refused fewer interviews or photo-ops, I don't know. She didn't write "Hello, In There", did she? Wasn't that John Prine's work? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:45:32 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Dawntreader Jim L'Hommedieu wondered ... >____________________________________________________________ >Hello all, I've scoured Wally's wonderful site for info >on the song called "Dawntreader" but came away empty-handed. >Where can I do some research on this song? >____________________________________________________________ Jim, i don't know that there is any more information other that what David Crosby offered up in his conversation with Wally Breese and a small mention in his book LONG TIME GONE. "I asked David about the sessions for the first album: WB: Did you spend a long time on Joni's first album or was it done in just a few quick weeks? DC: It was a fairly long process, as I remember. WB: By the way, do you call the first album "Song to a Seagull" or "Joni Mitchell?" DC: She originally called it "Song to a Seagull," which some people think is what she called it when she was still in love with me. I don't know. There are references to me on the album ... like "Dawntreader." WB: Oh, "Dawntreader" is definitely about you, I would think, with its references to sailing ships and seabirds." -------------------------------------------------- From David Crosby's book LONG TIME GONE: Three people's lives were braided together and others would join a tangled skein that would finmally drive every one of the artists involved to write a song about the experience; Grahan Nash's "Our House," Joni Mitchell's "Willy," and David Crosby's "Guinnevere," a song that's generally identified with Christine Hinton. In fact, the third verse of "Guinnevere" was inspired by Joni Mitchell. David believes that "Dawntrader" is at least in part about him and he's willing to concede now that at least a part of "Guinnevere" was for Joni. ----------------------------- for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:59:22 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! In a message dated 6/20/99 8:44:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lpeakes@email.msn.com writes: << I'd almost consider Baez a "song stylist" - but I know she takes a turn with the pen, too. ("Diamonds and Rust" is really good - did she write that? I'm not very conversant in her work) But, yeah, Baez has tended to claim a noisier platform for a cause - or maybe she's refused fewer interviews or photo-ops, I don't know. She didn't write "Hello, In There," did she? Wasn't that John Prine's work? >> Yes, most of Joan's recordings have been of other people's material. In that sense, she is more like a (to be especially kind to her) Tony Bennett or Barbra Streisand, with the exception that to my ear her voice sounds more like the bleating of a sheep exhorting everyone to use only union wool. ;>) Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:13:03 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! Lisa wrote: > She didn't write "Hello, In There," did she? Wasn't that John Prine's work Yes, that's a John Prine song. He's one of my favorite singer/songwriters. Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 16:21:03 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Plug Of The Week #24 Hi there, One of my favorite singer/songwriters from the circle around Jackson Browne, Kenny Loggins and Bonnie Raitt in the late 60's/early 70's - Pamela Polland - have just made two of her early albums available in a very limited run : Gentle Soul - Gentle Soul ( from 1968 ) Pamela Polland - Pamela Polland ( from 1971 ) The Gentle Soul album ( featuring Pamela and Rick Stanley ) is a great period piece, produced by Terry Melcher and backing by Jack Nietsche, Ry Cooder, Van Dyke Parks, Larry Knechtel, Taj Mahal and others. Her solo album from 1971 is a real knockout ! It was produced by George Daly and features a cast of thousands among the contributors: Taj Mahal, Dr Hook, Jimmie Spheeris, David Briggs, Eddie Hinton, Kenny Buttrey, Norbert Putnam, Nicky Hopkins and Rich Schlosser. The song "Please Mr DJ" still gets lots of airplay both in the US, as well as in Germany! Pamela Polland started out in the late 60's as a singer/songwriter in the circle around Jackson Browne, Kenny Loggins and Bonnie Raitt. "I've known Kenny and Bonnie for a long time", she says."I grew up in Los Angeles in an era when the singer/songwriter was lauded, so in my formative years I grew up with Kenny, Bonnie, Jackson Browne, Linda Ronstadt and Joni Mitchell. There was a creative community and we all used to get together and jam and collaborate". During this time, one of Polland's songs "I've Got To Know" was released as the b-side to Linda Ronstadt's "Different Drum" and another song was included on the Byrds "Easy Rider". (Check the liner notes on the re-mastered version of that album!) In 1968 she was signed to Epic Records as a member of the group Gentle Soul. "That was my first foray into the world of recording" she says. "Ry Cooder played guitar, Van Dyke Parks played keyboards and Taj Mahal was on one of our singles". In 1970 she was hired as a backup singer on Joe Cocker's legendary "Mad Dogs & Englishman" Tour. "It was everything you could imagine a wild rock'n'roll tour could be, with groupies, late nights and drugs" she laughs. "I was an anomaly. I was a vegetarian, meditating, non-drug-taking little flower child in the midst of this cacaphony, but I loved the music and I adored Leon Russell and Joe Cocker ". 1971 saw the release of her first solo album on Columbia. In 1995 she released the self-produced "Heart Of The World" with backing by Chris Hillman, Kenny Loggins and Bonnie Raitt. Highly recommended! If you're interested in any of these titles, please contact Pamela at : peemer@aloha.net Fans of Jackson, Kenny, Bonnie, Joni, James Taylor, Bryndle, CSN, America and others, should really check these ones out. Take care, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:15:32 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Attention Californians! (NJC) Just wondering if anyone in the LA area would like to spend a birthday dinner with me in August? I will probably be there around the 21st-23rd. I would love to see as many of you as possible!!! I will be stopping over for a few days, and would love any input from people in LA as far as what to do with 3 kids (16, 13, and 10) while we are in LA. Thanks SOOOO much! Looking forward to hearing from you! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:24:24 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Plug Of The Week #24 NJC In a message dated 6/20/99 10:22:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, peter.holmstedt@telia.com writes: << One of my favorite singer/songwriters from the circle around Jackson Browne, Kenny Loggins and Bonnie Raitt in the late 60's/early 70's - Pamela Polland - have just made two of her early albums available in a very limited run : >> Sorry, but this is NJC. Please label it so. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:37:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Zapuppy@webtv.net (Rick & Penny Gibbons) Subject: Father's Day (NJC) To all you mean old daddy listers in JMDL land: Happy Father's Day! Blessings, Penny ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:07:47 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: the wrong Joan NJC In a message dated 99-06-20 05:02:46 EDT, rhollis@islandnet.com writes: >To me, her strength has always been her ability to put a folk song across While running this morning, this thread was running through my mind. There is an interesting portrait of the two Joans in David Geffen's biography. From what I remember, (a shaky, shaky thing, but while I am sure I'm messing up the exacts, I think that I have the essence): Seems that the Joans were playing at a benefit at some prison. The crowd was a bit wild, somewhat hostile and unruly. Joni Mitchell was a complete wash-out in terms of relating to the crowd, she was more inclined to give them a lecture on how to be an appeicative audience and just couldn't connect. Joan Baez, on the other hand, had the prisoners in the palm of her hand. Connected and got her points across. Joan Baez is far, far more than an ex-lover of Dylan. During the 60's, she financed that famous "stop the draft" poster: "Girls Say Yes to Boys Who Say No." She's championed worker's rights in Poland, many, many local causes, environmental causes and on and on and on. I think that the two Joans are very apples and oranges; all things considered. Both represent two very different aspects of "typical" 60's stereotypes, both very talented in their respective areas. MG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:02:13 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Joni on NPR From: "Mark or Travis" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:06:20 -0700 I just caught the end of the song 'Turbulent Indigo' on American Roots on our local NPR station. The program host said that Joni would be pleased to follow the Duke so I assume the previous song was something by Ellington. Illustrious company for Siquomb and she deserves to be there imo. Mark in Seattle back from Omaha and glad to be home. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:08:11 -0600 From: "Steve Haas" (by way of Les Irvin ) Subject: RE: the wrong joan always gets the credit! Oh, please, give Joan her due. She had an incredible voice. She is one of those singers who could just open her mouth and, without apparent effort, boom out a sound that few others could make. Joni was an incredible songstress, and poet, but she was not a singer; like Bob Dylan, whose voice no one would compare with Caruso, her voice matched her music perfectly, but she would not have made her living as a singer alone. Joanie did a lot of things that Joan didn't do, and vice versa. Respect both of them for their art, and there is no need to disparage one to raise the other one up. S. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > Takats, Angela > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 1999 6:47 PM > To: 'joni@smoe.org' > Subject: the wrong joan always gets the credit! > > > Hi Listers, > At the risk of offending Joan Baez fans and I'll try and keep > this tame.... > Can i just say that it REALLY pisses me off when people talk of her being > THE female singer of the sixties/seventies. I have read several books and > seen docos on music from that time and why is it that this woman seems to > get so much "page space" when she was so average in comparison to joni?? I > had a big fight with someone the other day about female artists from that > era...they said Baez lead the way! > > So what's the deal...was she just on the scene before Joni? is > that why she > seems to get such credit? I don't even like her version of Blowing in the > Wind! What is so good about her? was she a great songwriter?? How does she > manage to be put in the same catergory as Joni? > > Something that has been bugging me...Ange, Sydney > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 13:24:56 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! Another point as far as being a 60's icon is that Baez began her career in the early 60's, and was probably THE most well known female singer of that decade, whereas Joni's career didn't begin to pick up steam until that decade was over. Also count me as one who finds Baez' voice annoying. She can command an audience, though. I saw her once, and she said "This song will make you cry", and I said to myself, 'yeah, right', but she was, it did. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 13:31:52 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Fleetwood Mac (NJC) Ginamu@aol.com wrote: > I actually mistakenly thought both [Danny Kirwin] > Peter Green were dead as a result of drugs. Like Jeremy Spenser, Kirwin left the band to join the LA religious sect "The Children of God". He made a couple of solo albums which were not successful (or very good IMO). > Refresh my memory. Didn't Danny do some songwriting on Bare Trees? I want to > go out and buy this stuff on CD now! Some of Kirwins compositions: Bare Trees Child of Mine Dust (a great little song) Sands of Time Woman of 1000 Years Station Man Although the Sun Is Shining Tell Me All The Things You Do plus 'he played a mean guitar' (& loved to drive in his Jaguar?) RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 13:36:57 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Fleetwood Mac (NJC) P S It irked me that neither Danny Kirwin nor Bob Welch were included as R&R Hall of Fame inductees with the other members of F Mac. The band rose to national prominence during their tenure, and made some classic recordings. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:12:06 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Father's Day Founder Left Legacy - --part1_553faac2.249eb326_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --part1_553faac2.249eb326_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: AOLNews@aol.com From: AOLNews@aol.com Full-name: AOL News Message-ID: <553faac2.249d66e4@aol.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 17:34:28 EDT Subject: Father's Day Founder Left Legacy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) To: undisclosed-recipients:; Father's Day Founder Left Legacy .c The Associated Press By MARK JEWELL SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) - Dads getting new ties on Sunday, or just spending the day kicking back, owe a debt to the mother of Father's Day. Without Sonora Smart Dodd, the third Sunday of each June might be just another day for lawn-mowing and endless to-do lists. Dodd was just 16 when her own father, Civil War veteran William Jackson Smart, lost his wife in childbirth and was left to raise their six children alone in Spokane. In 1909, when she was 27, she listened to a Sunday sermon about Mother's Day and wondered why there was no corresponding day for fathers. Dodd believed the nation didn't show enough respect to fathers, citing popular songs of the day such as ``Father, Dear Father, Come Home with Me Now'' and ``Everybody Works but Father.'' And the sermon set her on a campaign for a Father's Day observance. Dodd ``was a real promoter and had lots of charm,'' said Don Ball, whose family opened a funeral home with the Dodds in the 1930s that is still in business today. ``She was so well-known around town as a poet, a scribe and a sculptor.'' She promoted Father's Day ``out of love for her father,'' recalled Ball, 72, who knew Dodd from childhood. Today, about 97 million Father's Day cards are purchased annually in the United States, according to the Greeting Card Association, an industry group. It is the fifth-largest card-sending occasion, following Christmas, Valentine's Day, Mother's Day and Easter. Dodd's campaign was an uphill struggle at first. ``One group of men conventioneers laughed and said they didn't want a Father's Day,'' according to a 1965 article in The Spokesman-Review. ``A national fishing day would be better, they told her.'' But Dodd persuaded the Spokane Ministerial Association and local YMCA to pass a resolution in support of Father's Day, and the first local observance was held June 19, 1910. Her effort is commemorated on a plaque outside the downtown Y. The first Father's Day was community-oriented. ``The original Father's Day Association ... and groups of Spokane women prepared home dinners, gathered roses for sacred commemoration and made gifts for shut-in fathers,'' Dodd said in a 1965 speech for dedication of the YMCA plaque. Her idea spread to other cities, and celebrities including orator William Jennings Bryan joined the campaign for a national observance. ``Both Father's and Mother's days rest substantially upon the same commandment, `Honor thy father and thy mother,''' wrote Bryan, a three-time presidential hopeful, in a 1910 letter to Dodd. President Woodrow Wilson added his support, and Congress passed a resolution proclaiming a Father's Day in 1914. It became a national holiday when President Richard Nixon signed a declaration in 1972. Mother's Day first became an official holiday in West Virginia in 1910, though there had been unofficial observances before that. Congress followed in 1914 with a declaration that was signed by President Wilson. Dodd died in 1978, at the age of 96. AP-NY-06-19-99 1733EDT Copyright 1999 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press. To edit your profile, go to keyword NewsProfiles . For all of today's news, go to keyword News. - --part1_553faac2.249eb326_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:59:37 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! In a message dated 6/20/99 4:10:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steveha@email.msn.com writes: << Joanie did a lot of things that Joan didn't do, and vice versa. Respect both of them for their art, and there is no need to disparage one to raise the other one up. >> Look, just like there are people who find Joni irritating for one reason or another (usually it's because they think she is depressing), there are some of us who find Joan Baez irritating, whether it be for the overdone vibrato in her singing voice, her strident approach to politics or whatver other reason there is. Respect US for our honest opinions and don't expect us to kowtow to your view of Baez simply because we both like Joni Mitchell. I am not being critical of Joan in some misguided effort to make Ms. Mitchell look better. Joni doesn't need my help for that. I think the biggest difference between the two is that when Joni stand before an audience, she is a performer seeking to entertain us with her formidable skills as a singer, songwriter and musician. When Joan stands before an audience, IMHO, she sees a crowd of people who need to be persuaded to conform to Joan's view of the world, and she attempts to use her voice to accomplish that goal. Both are honest about it, I suppose, and both have their place. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 15:05:56 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! Have we mentioned the big paradox?: Joni's friends call her Joan. Joan's friends call her Joanie. Break into groups and discuss. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:43:52 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! > > > Joni was an incredible songstress, and poet, but she was not a singer; My God! Has she died? Why did no one tell me? colin-concerned > l ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:45:47 -0500 From: "Steve Haas" Subject: RE: the wrong joan always gets the credit! > I think the biggest difference between the two is that when Joni stand > before an audience, she is a performer seeking to entertain us with her > formidable skills as a singer, songwriter and musician. > When Joan stands before an audience, IMHO, she sees a crowd of > people who > need to be persuaded to conform to Joan's view of the world, and > she attempts > to use her voice to accomplish that goal. > Both are honest about it, I suppose, and both have their place. > > Paul I > Well, yes, that is just the point; the point being that there is a big difference between those who MAKE the music, and those who interpret the music... I'm curious what people think about, say, Judy Collins, who MADE the Circle Game a well known song; it is doubtful if anyone would have heard if if only Joni had sung it. Same thing for something like "Woodstock." If Crosby Stills and Nash hadn't sung it, would it have been a popular tune? The fact is, Joni is not as well-known as some of her interpreters. In a lot of ways, with regards to popular culture, Joni is a very minor player. While we can all agree here that Joni was probably the best poet of the 60's, Joan Baez struck a much more popular chord. She was much more 'in tune' with her times, and had much more influence than did Joni. That is not a value judgement, just a fact. A fact that is probably more a commentary on 'popular culture' than on the capabilities of Joni Mithcell...but a fact nevertheless. S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 16:05:16 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: JMDL Reader's Club It seems that many of us share similar tastes and interests. How about a JMDL reader's club. I'd appreciate recommendations from list members of some of their favorite books. I'm currently reading "The Pilot's Wife" and hope to see it on the big screen - I can picture Minnie Driver in the title role. I begged off the Solstice Music Festival today so that I could stay home and finish reading this novel. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:20:59 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! Paul retorted: <> Sounds like someone needs to contact MTV to have a "Joni vs. Joan" Celebrity Death Match to settle the score... :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 00:38:58 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Where's Catgirl NJC Catgirl wrote: . > I went to a bunch of concerts that my >favorite male muscian was performing. His name is Francis Dunnery and he is really wonderful. Good plug Catgirl. I saw him once in a show with Jill Sobule and he was great. the world needs more good songwriters like him. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 00:39:55 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: JONI, James & A Case Of You Simon wrote: >-- James Taylor, a 'relative' unknown at the time. this When this show was broadcast on Radio 1 during Christmas 1970 James Taylor was big in England. On press, radio or TV at the time you were sure to trip over at least one of the Taylor clan. If not JT himself, then sister Kate or brother Livingston who had a catalogue of songs, every one of which seemed to be about Carolina. Their reign was slightly longer than the Warholian 15 minutes but nevertheless they ruled. The Joni 'n James show was introduced by DJ legend John Peel who used to be a big Joni supporter but hasn't played her since HOSL. He's never been the same since Punk. The remarkable thing about the concert is that it survived at all, given the Beeb's knack of losing or wiping priceless recordings, like the For The Roses era concert which was shown once in August '72 and never seen again. Did I ever mention that I was there ? Philip ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 00:43:04 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Fleetwood Mac (NJC) It's nice reading all this talk about early Fleetwood Mac. The version with Peter Green was the first pop concert I ever saw. Everyone assumed they were finished when Peter left but Danny Kirwan and Jeremy Spencer combined to write a great album called Kiln House. Danny Kirwan was later fired from the group. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:55:06 -0400 (EDT) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: EBAY Again - please help Can someone, anyone, put an end to these illegal, unethical auctions on EBAY? A certain Dr. Pepper is auctioning off the following live cassettes at: http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=drpepper4 He's got some gr8 stuff including JONI, JEFFERSONS, JORMA, BROMBERG, DICKIE BETTS, KINGFISH and more. I'd wager he keeps the masters and auctions copies. Wrong either way. Thanks, gdave Current auctions by drpepper4 (19) 120217743 06/19/99 06/29/99 21:20:01 $4.99Live Dave Bromberg 4/11/81 Oswego St. Univ. No Bids Yet 120212416 06/19/99 06/29/99 21:06:58 $4.99 Live Jorma Kaukonen/Vital Parts 2-5-80 NYC No Bids Yet 120210985 06/19/99 06/29/99 21:03:40 $4.99 Live Joe Walsh 3/90 The Chance, Poughkeepsie No Bids Yet 120209464 06/19/99 06/29/99 21:00:19 $4.99 Live Paul Butterfield 3-24-83 Wash DC No Bids Yet 120203505 06/19/99 06/29/99 20:47:12 $6.99 KingFish Audio Cassette 8/18/89 180 minutes No Bids Yet 120202313 06/19/99 06/29/99 20:44:52 $2.99 John Hamond Live Audio Cassette No Bids Yet 120198596 06/19/99 06/29/99 20:36:56 $2.99 Henry Kaiser Band Live Audio Cassette No Bids Yet 117231035 06/13/99 06/23/99 18:22:37 $4.99 The Byrds 3/29/67 Stockholm, Sweden bluesbreaker9 (0) 1172297400 6/13/99 06/23/99 18:20:45 $4.99 Professor Longhair Live at Tipitinastsilva@gcrc.bwh.harvard.edu (25) 117226877 06/13/99 06/23/99 18:16:57 $4.99 Jefferson Airplane Live 90 Minutes No Bids Yet 117225159 06/13/99 06/23/99 18:14:36 $9.99 Dickey Betts Band Live 180 Minutes No Bids Yet 116833009 06/12/99 06/22/99 20:42:21 $26.50 Joni Mitchell Live 1966 in Philadelphia jms7 (1) 116831371 06/12/99 06/22/99 20:38:54 $4.99 Mick Taylor at the Lost Horizon live tapebluesbreaker9 (0) 116830273 06/12/99 06/22/99 20:36:48 $6.50 Dr. John Live at Klub Polskimaclover2 (13) 116829388 06/12/99 06/22/99 20:34:54 $4.99 Henry Kaiser Band/Paul Kantner Tape No Bids Yet 116826895 06/12/99 06/22/99 20:29:51 $9.99 "Blues for Salvador" Cassettes sanfan99 (0) - ----------------------------------------------------------------- DaveBase @ www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:19:02 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: VLJC: Bonnie Raitt Concert Review First off, for those who are only in it for the Joni: When she introduced "Fundamental" the title track of her latest record which was penned by Larry Klein, she said "Here's one written by Joni Mitchell's ex-husband, so you can go figure it out". Last night I was among 2,500 Bonnie Fans in attendance in Greenville, Peace Center to see & hear Bonnie Raitt. I had been a fan ever since college days when a roommate played a lot of her stuff. This theatre (which is EXACTLY the kind of venue Joni needs to be in) is built for the symphony & operas & touring musicals so acoustically it's superb. We were in the 6th row so we were up close and had great seats. I have to laugh at myself; I had taken pen & pad so I could write down the setlist, jot some notes, etc. and I did a pretty good job considering there was no light and my pen kept pulling up lame, but like the fool I am I left the book in my car which is now back at the airport parking lot. Oh well, it'll help the review to be more brief which probably isn't a bad thing anyway. :~) Warming up for Bonnie was "JohnCleary & The Absolute Monster Gentlemen", they were all from New Orleans (except for Mr. Cleary who was British).Michael Paz, I was thinking about you the whole time, figuring you'd probably worked with these guys before, plus their music was very Neville Bros/Professor Longhair-New Orleans cajun funk and blues. Unfortunately, a lot of the crowd hadn't come in yet, and too bad for them because Cleary announced his "special guest", none other than Bonnie herself to do some background vocals on a song called "Necessarily Mercenary". They were fine, but the crowd was anxious for Bonnie, and she didn't disappoint. She opened with what she called her "NRBQ Medley", which consisted of a track from Fundamental ("Come To Me"(?)) and "Me & The Boys", which is a great rocker. She said that after the Stones, NRBQ was her favorite band ever. All in all, she performed for almost 2 hours. Her encore consisted of a stretched-out "Let's Give em Something to talk About" and a pretty version of "Angel From Montgomery". On "Angel" & "Louise", she played her acoustic while John Cleary, who played mostly keyboards for her all night, played mandolin. It was very nice, it made me think of "Song For Sharon" about buying a mandolin. Bonnie also played electric piano on "Nick of Time". I forget all the songs she played without my "cheat sheet", but the majority were from her 90's work. She was very much at ease, lots of conversation, lots of interaction with the audience. When she introduced "Louise" she prefaced it by dedicating it to three ladies who had sent her flowers backstage and saying how much her fans meant to her, both the new ones and the ones from long ago. It was very heartfelt and touching, I thought. She looked and sounded great, she played a lot of slide guitar, she even played a little harmonica. I hope the success of the show brings about some other acts who are tired of only playing big arenas and sheds. Bonnie was really enjoying herself, and said she considered herself blessed for being able to have the career she's had. I certainly felt the same after seeing her show. Bob -------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:23:26 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Joni sings out! hi gang, just thought I'd share a little more obscure info with y'all... in 1950 a non-profit org, Sing Out! publications out of Bethlehem PA, (http://www.singout.org/)(right down the road from Nazareth, PA where Martin guitars are made) formed for the preservation of American folk music, began publishing Sing Out! magazine. this publication (along with the Boston Broadside) became the 'folkie bible' during the mid-60's 'folk boom', each issue containing the sheet music to several songs, both contemporary and traditional, articles on festivals, picking styles, instruments, protests, etc. and ads where one could, among other things, contact the various agencies (harold leventhal for example) and book working performers like Judy Collins, Arlo Guthrie, Tom Paxton, Tom Rush, etc., which I utilized in my days as 'entertainment mgr.' of the Cellar. this magazine, still in publication, is, I'm sure, maintained at many libraries as it is a unique American historical document, especially for that particular time period, and although many, including Joni herself, seem to want to discount her role as a folk performer, she is, nevertheless, immortalized in this publication as such by the inclusion of 3 of her songs: - -Both Sides Now .......... v.18#6 ... p.18 - -Fiddle and the Drum ..... v.19#3 ... p.1 - -Urge for Going .......... v.18#4 ... p.36 and, for serious collectors, these back-issues can be purchased here: http://www.singout.org/backiss.html or, if you'd rather, you can become a member and get selective access to their resource center. enjoy, pat NP: The Last Thing On My Mind - Tom Paxton http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:23:06 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! In a message dated 6/20/99 6:47:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steveha@email.msn.com writes: << The fact is, Joni is not as well-known as some of her interpreters. In a lot of ways, with regard to popular culture, Joni is a very minor player. While we can all agree here that Joni was probably the best poet of the 60's, Joan Baez struck a much more popular chord. She was much more 'in tune' with her times, and had much more influence than did Joni. That is not a value judgment, just a fact. A fact that is probably more a commentary on 'popular culture' than on the capabilities of Joni Mitchell...but a fact nevertheless. >> Who gives a s--- about popular culture? The Captain and Tenille and the Carpenters had a lot of influence on popular culture, too. Maybe as much as Joan Baez, but so what? Joni Mitchell's influence has been on the music industry, in numerous and untold ways, including the ability now of a single woman with a guitar or piano and some songs of her own with something to say to get heard. THAT influence will last a lot longer than any influence anyone has on popular culture. If that's all that Joan Baez has done, that's faint praise, indeed. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 22:39:43 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: biased on baez njc there are three reasons why i like joan baez very much 1- she wrote gulf winds, one of the most beautiful songs ever written [it's only when the high wind blows that i wish my hair was long...] 2- she is or at least used to be a political agitator, and i once was one too. 3- like me, she is a loud, high-note-loving, short-tempered capricorn wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:00:27 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: biased on baez njc and protest songs of the 90's In a message dated 6/20/99 9:43:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@interserver.com.ar writes: > 1- she wrote gulf winds, one of the most beautiful songs ever written [it's > only when the high wind blows that i wish my hair was long...] Oh, what is the name of that album?? The one where she's sitting (on the floor?) very tanned, in a short white dress, looking absolutely like the most beautiful brunette that ever lived...I have that LP and I know the song you're talking about!! It is very nice and there are other rather good songs on that album, too! I had forgotten all about it, thanks for reminding me. So...I think there is something to Joan quite beyond her voice, though some would say that is her strength?? I mean, Dylan can't sing for beans and we can't disregard *his* appeal, right? I'm not comparing Joan to Bobby, just making the point that the voice isn't all there is to captivating an audience, as we all know. The more I think about it, the more I've decided that I am a Joan Baez fan. I love that song on Diamonds and Rust; the one about her kid "Gabriel Harris, you go to bed now, you go to bed now...it's quarter to nine, I'm tired, I'm tired, I'm tired..." What parent cant relate to that universally frustrating bedtime ritual? Anyone know Joan's version of the Mary Chapin Carpenter song Stones In The Road that Joan recorded a few years back? I think that's an example of how Joan belts out a song as a way to deliver an impact and MCC sort of caresses it but IMO the latter makes the point more wisely. It's a sort of protest song for the 90's. How many of those can we list? Take care, Gina NP: STAS - Sisotobell Lane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:04:43 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: the wrong joan always gets the credit! In a message dated 6/20/1999 6:03:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: << Look, just like there are people who find Joni irritating for one reason or another (usually it's because they think she is depressing), there are some of us who find Joan Baez irritating, whether it be for the overdone vibrato in her singing voice, her strident approach to politics or whatver other reason there is. Respect US for our honest opinions and don't expect us to kowtow to your view of Baez simply because we both like Joni Mitchell. I am not being critical of Joan in some misguided effort to make Ms. Mitchell look better. Joni doesn't need my help for that. I think the biggest difference between the two is that when Joni stand before an audience, she is a performer seeking to entertain us with her formidable skills as a singer, songwriter and musician. When Joan stands before an audience, IMHO, she sees a crowd of people who need to be persuaded to conform to Joan's view of the world, and she attempts to use her voice to accomplish that goal. Both are honest about it, I suppose, and both have their place. Paul I >> very well said Paul. If I was a Joan Baez freak I would be on that list. Joni voice is far superior to Joans any day of the week to me. AND, Joan is not a songwriter. It always bugged me that there are some who just sing others music. Sure they might sound good but where is the real talent in that? Joni has written almost every song she has ever put on an album and with extreame genius at that! I have some Joan Baez on CD. I think one and it is her greatest hits. How many songs can you listen to of Joans with out going crazy with that verbrato??? Enough is enough! I have every single Joni album on CD. I just love HER music! Catgirl...this is my opinion and could be wrong! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:17:47 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: biased on baez njc Wally K chimes in with: > there are three reasons why i like joan baez very much > 1- she wrote gulf winds, one of the most beautiful songs ever written [it's > only when the high wind blows that i wish my hair was long...] > 2- she is or at least used to be a political agitator, and i once was one > too. > 3- like me, she is a loud, high-note-loving, short-tempered capricorn > wallyk > When I was a young, naive, hopelessly nerdy teen, I thought Joan Baez was a rabble-rousing cause pusher with an obnoxiously warbly voice. When I got to be a little bit older and able to think for myself and had learned a bit more about the injustices of this old world, I grew to respect and admire her very much. She has seemingly lived by the courage of her convictions and from what I know of her she contributed much to the causes of civil rights and trying to extricate the US from the Viet Nam conflict. Most of us have seen the post-Woodstock Dick Cavett show with Joni, Crosby, Stills and the Jefferson Airplane. I thought Joni sounded kind of silly & naive when she talked about not being political and just writing mostly love songs. Maybe as a Canadian citizen she was just being diplomatic (but then she did get up and perform 'Fiddle and the Drum'). We all know now that Joni is neither silly nor naive (and maybe never was) and over the years has developed some very strong opinions about society and the state of the planet. Some of her songs could be construed as being just as sanctimonious as Joan Baez often seems to be. I remember after hearing 'Clouds' for the first time (this was after being totally immersed in and blown away by 'Court & Spark) that I thought Joni was trying to mimic Baez on that record. Listening to that album now I have trouble figuring out why I ever thought that. I agree with Wally, though. 'Gulf Winds' is a beautiful song: And Gulf winds bring me flying fish That shine in the crescent moon Show me the horizon Where the dawn will break anew And cool me here on this lonely pier Where the heron are flying low Echo the songs my father knew In the towns of Mexico I particularly like the lines: And Mama smoothed my worried brow As I leaned on the kitchen door 'Why do you carry the weight' she said, 'Of the world And maybe more?' I can just see Joan as a young girl with an already developing social conscience constantly agitated by this or that injustice. It makes me think of the scenes in the film 'Julia' where Lillian's young friend is upset at the wrongs that seemingly only she can see. I remember being delighted when I first bought the 'Diamonds and Rust' album to find a song that Joan & Joni sang together. It's just a ditty with only the syllables 'Di-da' repeated over & over but the two of them do some wonderful harmonizing and overlapping of their voices. I just finished last week's digests. I'm so glad to be back and I missed the list very much. What interesting reading I had to come back to! The art thread is great! I'm not well versed in painting at all so it's all very fascinating to me. And I could just spit having missed out on 'The Boho Dance' discussion but c'est la vie! I really don't have anything to add to it that hasn't been said already. How wonderful that so many infrequent posters and newbies are posting so much! It really enriches the whole so much. I've switched to digest before when going on vacation and sometimes it's been kind of a chore to wade through them all when returning but not this time! Great reading throughout! Thanks, guys! Mark in Seattle PS: I still maintain that Joan B's 'Any Day Now' has some of the most beautiful covers of Dylan's music that have ever been recorded. But I have to agree with the person who said they don't care for her version of 'Blowin' in the Wind'. Peter, Paul and Mary have that one sewn up, hands down! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:20:01 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: EBAY Again - please help NJC In a message dated 6/20/1999 7:57:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kb420@webtv.net writes: << Can someone, anyone, put an end to these illegal, unethical auctions on EBAY? A certain Dr. Pepper is auctioning off the following live cassettes at: http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=drpepper4 He's got some gr8 stuff including JONI, JEFFERSONS, JORMA, BROMBERG, DICKIE BETTS, KINGFISH and more. >> It makes me so sick as well. These bootleggers need to be put out of bussiness!!! Joni at the 2nd fret went for over 238 bucks!! People are insane!! I would NEVER sell any Joni ever!! I am just so greatful that this list is here kindly offering any Joni for us lucky Joni fans! Thanks to all their efrforts!! Catgirl ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #267 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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