From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #259 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, June 14 1999 Volume 04 : Number 259 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Boho Dance [dsk ] Re: abstract expressionism, etc.? (njc) [dsk ] Re: A boho dancing... [dsk ] RE: Transalations (NJC)` ["Wally Kairuz" ] What's in a name - continued (NJC) ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Joni/Carey/Simon ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Finding your key for singing/playing Joni songs [Howard Wright ] What's in a Name? (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: (NJC) Birthday Guuurrrl [Heather Galli ] NJC Junk food. [catman ] Re: NJC Junk food. ["Kakki" ] Abstract Art (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Sisotowbell Lane [Steve Dulson ] Re: NJC Junk food. [Heather Galli ] RE: JONI UNDER THE COVERS [colin ] RE: why people don't post (NJC) [colin ] Stay In Touch [simon@icu.com] Re: Sisotowbell Lane [Don Rowe ] Rothko, etc. (NJC) [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: Rothko, etc. (NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Rothko, etc. (NJC) [Heather Galli ] NJC - Natalie Merchant [Heather Galli ] Re: Abstract Art (NJC) [dsk ] Re: (NJC) Birthday Guuurrrl [Susan Chaloner ] challenge to British JMDLers [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Rothko, etc. (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC - Natalie Merchant [Heather Galli ] Re: stay in touch... [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:10:09 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: The Boho Dance David Marine wrote: > > It has been suggested that the Boho dance is the relationship between > critic and artist? I can see that as part of it. I would be interested > to hear from those who have read the Wolfe book "The Painted Word."... Joni's Boho Dance is a personal story (it does seem to me she's talking to a particular person as well as thinking about where she fits in) and goes beyond Tom Wolfe's discussion of the art world, but it does start with it. _The Painted Word_ was published in June 1975, the same year as HOSL, so the subject may have been talked about in Larry Poons's NY loft, along with Don't Interrupt the Sorrow (since LP is mentioned in the book, he probably knew about it before it was published). And it's not so much about artists and critics, as about the relationship between artists and the people buying their art (with critics often(?) determining what those people are buying and the buyers purchasing not only art but the feeling that they, because of their relationship with the artist, are also bohemians -- at least briefly). It's Wolfe's premise that the visual arts are the only art form in which relatively few wealthy people decide what everyone else will see. Not that knowing any of this is important to appreciating Joni's work, but I do like placing Joni in context, as opposed to her seeming to create in a vacuum. So now when rereading The Painted Word with Joni's Boho Dance in mind, some quotes jump out at me: "...the [art mating] ritual has two phases: (1) The Boho Dance, in which the artist shows his stuff within the circles, coteries, movements, isms, of the home neighborhood, bohemia itself, as if he doesn't care about anything else; as if, in fact, he has a knife in his teeth against the fashionable world uptown. (2) The Consummation, in which culterati from that very same world, le monde, scout the various new movements and new artists of bohemia, select those who seem the most exciting, original, important, by whatever standards -- and shower them with all the rewards of celebrity." Wolfe then describes Picasso as an artist who excelled at this art mating ritual, compared to Picasso's friend Georges Braque, who is really the one who came up with Cubism: "...here we have the classic demonstration of the artist who knows how to double-track his way from the Boho Dance to the Consummation as opposed to the artist who gets stuck forever in the Boho Dance. This is an ever-present hazard of the art mating ritual. Truly successful double-tracking requires the artist to be a sincere and committed performer in *both roles.* Many artists become so dedicated to bohemian values, internalize their antibourgeois feelings so profoundly, that they are unable to cut loose, let go ... and submit gracefully to good fortune; the sort of artist, and his name is Legion, who always comes to the black-tie openings at the Museum of Modern Art wearing a dinner jacket and paint-spattered Levis's . . . *I'm still a virgin!*" One verse especially seems to come from this paragraph, although Joni's words are so much richer. Joni's conclusion is that she's not involved in this art mating ritual at all: "The streets were never really mine. Not mine these glamour gowns." Is that because she was making music, instead of showing her artwork? At first I thought this song went beyond the art world and was about anyone getting stuck in a certain lifestyle, even if it's hurtful. But maybe she WAS just talking about the visual arts. Most of the song is criticizing someone else. It does seem like she's aloof and separate from the Boho Dance, not that she's learned how to do it comfortably herself. Hmmm, is this actually a song about Joni's relationship to the art world? Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:05:19 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: abstract expressionism, etc.? (njc) patrick leader wrote: > > ...when i first saw pollock's 'autumn rhythm', i was only vaguely > aware of the term 'abstract expressionism', only vaguely aware of > abstraction in art at all. i stood in front of the painting, understanding > how the painter moved, understanding the leap of faith that created the > painting, and feeling that soul-shaking wonder that happens in front of a > masterpiece. first of all, it was the only painting i'd ever seen that > expressed dance. it wore it's 'process' right there up front, ... And part of Pollock's influence is his use of common materials, house paint, aluminum paint, and incorporating "accidents" in the work. This seems simple but it opened things up for other artists. I respect his work but don't love it. I do like to walk from one end of his big paintings to the other and see how the lines change and dance in different ways, so even though his work doesn't emotionally move me, it does make me want to physically move. > i'm fairly cool on rothko, detest willem dekooning's work, and i think that > this world has not even begun to understand the genius of richard > diebenkorn's achievement. I stood in front of a Rothko painting one day at the MoMA and just burst into tears. I'd never had such an emotional reaction to any painting, but there was something about the large size that enveloped me as I stood close to it, the layers of glazed colors which were somber but very rich, the simplicity of the shapes, the "eternalness" of it all moved me in a very surprising way. So I don't know cool when it comes to Mark Rothko's work. And I can only see one or two at a time because of this. I want to like Willem deKooning's work, but it turns me off. The colors are usually in the same middle range and those women he painted are so hateful looking, ugh. The figure on the left side of the Mingus cover looks like a deKooning woman -- I don't like it. I enjoy Richard Diebenkorn's work. His palette is like a cool breeze. And I really like the way he divides the areas in his paintings. Whether he's a genius, well, I don't know... There was a show of his work at the Whitney not too long ago, what a treat that was! > oddly enough, of the artists you expect to last, i have a very > controversial alternate opinion. my vote for the painter most likely to be > massively devalued in the 21st century: pablo picasso. I agree; I don't think Picasso's work will last, partly because so much of his appeal has to do with him as "the artist of the century" that it's hard to see the work without thinking of him personally. When that myth loses its power and people are only left with the work, I don't think it will look so great. He got a lot of mileage out of African art and cubism, which he didn't even "invent." It will be a while before his work lessens in value because he flooded the market, often doing at least one painting a day, sometimes not such good ones, but it didn't matter because they were "Picassos!". And Picasso didn't have a clue about how to use color, so right away I don't like his work too much. Color is what gets to me, going right to the gut, and I respond to the work of any artist that's known as a "colorist." Drawing can be learned (although it's easier for some people than others), but using color expressively is an ingrained natural ability. Henri Matisse is the absolute best at using color, and I think his work will be around for centuries, even though some of it is criticized even now as being too decorative. But I love his work, whether it will be at museums in the future or not. That's it, for now (where art's concerned, there's never a final word). Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:07:33 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: A boho dancing... CarltonCT@aol.com wrote: > > I'm the first to say that Rothko, Jackson Pollack and the other abstract > expressionists will not be hanging with the Van Gogh's, Rembrandts and > Picasso's in the museums of the future. The value of any of these artist's work is not set in stone, although the work of the older artists you list seems to be (they've been around longer so we're used to them, resulting in a high comfort level). Years ago, I found an old book of art criticism (from around 1940) that tore apart Picasso's work and highly praised other people I hadn't heard of. We know Van Gogh's story and Rembrandt died penniless. Now they're in favor, but that might not always be the case. It has as much to do with the times as it does with the actual work, so it takes centuries of people responding to particular work before it can be considered great. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:08:01 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Transalations (NJC)` hi michael, well, it's really silly if one doesn't speak spanish, and it may be stupid even if one does, but here it goes: elizabeth taylor: isabel sastre brooke shields: arroyito escudos josephine baker: josefina panadero lucille ball: lucila pelota [ which in argentine spanish means show off your testicle] i guess that it also depends on the variety of spanish each of us speaks. for example, i had never heard the expression no hay pedo. some idioms with pedo in argentina could be estar en pedo [to be drunk; also, to be wrong], ni en pedo [no way], estar al pedo [no to fit in, to be unwanted], hablar al pedo [to talk idly or without a reason], agarrarse un pedo [to get very drunk] and quite a few more that i can't think of right now. incidentally, a friend of mine e-mailed me a compilation of buenos aires-spanglish expressions yesterday, but i think they're funny only to someone who's lived here. by the way, michael, how big is a vg8. is it something one can get through customs in a carry on? what else do you need to make it work? and, most importantly, how much will it cost? well, get in touch soon. wallyK, np - laurie anderson- united states 1 to 4 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:38:11 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: What's in a name - continued (NJC) Wouldn't normally post to this, after my tirades a while ago about non-Joni posts (ducking and weaving, ducking and weaving)! But after reading this in the New Zealand Herald this morning, I just couldn't resist! The winners of the "open pair" at the NZ National Aerobics Championships this weekend were: Rob Bone and Erica Shoulders! Helen NP - the ever-increasing hum of my computer fan - nearly time for an upgrade! P.S. The lyric game is progressing - should be ready some time this week. I know, I know, the suspense is killing you! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:47:17 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni/Carey/Simon Lori wrote: >>From Carey: > >"Let's have another round for the bright red devil who keeps me in this >tourist town." > >>From California: > >"I met a red neck on a Grecian Isle > He did the goat dance very well > He gave me back my smile > But he help my camera to sell > Oh the rogue, the red red rogue" > >Coincidence? Or was Joni writing about the same person? It's only recently that I've discovered that Carey is not about James Taylor, so I never made the connection. But now that you mention it, it seems far too obvious NOT to be the same person. By the way, I always thought the line "but he kept my camera to sell" was "but he kept my camera in his cell" - so I always imagined the "red-neck" or "red, red rogue" was a fairly unsavoury character she met, who was arrested for some reason. It's funny how the mind works - or in my case, slightly strange and a more than a little scary! Anyway, I agree with you! Helen NP - The cat crying in the other room, because something's scared him, the big wuss! Probably a beetle ran in front of him. I've never met a more pathetic excuse for a carnivore! He was terrorised (literally) by two blackbirds at my last house! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:12:15 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: Finding your key for singing/playing Joni songs From: MDESTE1@aol.com >If someone has a poor or average melodic ability all the more important >to sing it in the proper key for their voice. It is always possible to >find the exotic tuning in YOUR key that will have different yet >interesting harmonics and tones. Its all in practicing and having >someone show you the tuning. It may take some effort (like finding >someone who knows another tuning) but its possible. The point is dont >try to hit jonis notes. Ask Bob Dylan. marcel. I think it is important to find your own way of playing and singing Joni, whether that means just changing key a little, or altering the melody a little ... But, the difficult part is always the guitar. I guess I'm a guitar purist - - for the most part I like to play the songs the way Joni does. That means I *have* to use her tunings and chords, which pretty much fixes the key. You can maybe tune up or down a fraction, but this can be tough for your guitar, and you often need to play chords right up at the 12th fret or higher, so using a capo doesn't really work. As Marcel says, it is possible to reinvent the guitar part, but this is hard if you want to keep as many of those "Joni notes and chords" as possible. If you make a complete change of the guitar part, then you're more free to choose chords as you like and you can find an arrangement that suits your voice well. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:33:53 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Re: (SJC) You Am I Hello Angela, I'm not much of an You Am I fan either, though his not-so-ringing endorsement of Joni wouldn't particularly put me off! Their music just isn't interesting enough to grab me... but it is interesting to hear people who dislike Joni though. It makes you take a fresh look sometimes to see if you can spot what they mean... more often than not, I just don't care!! :-) Vanessa N.P. My thoughts! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:29:11 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: What's in a Name? (NJC) Kakki wrote: >Oh geez, we had a Candy Kane in my neighborhood, too! I dated a Candy Kane when I lived in Atlanta...and my dentist in Corona del Mar is named (really!) Dr. Smiley. Sorry I'm so late on this thread - the Tinkers spent the last 3 days of last week in the studio working on CD 2 (yay!). ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:31:03 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: (NJC) Birthday Guuurrrl >And to the rest of you: What's the matter with you(s) anyway? Not enough >honey in your digests ;~D > Ms McBabe - A very happy (and I know, BELATED) birthday to you! And No! we don't have enough honey in our digests. There are folks who stir things up around here now and again BUT you are our "essence", as Emril would say ...... BAM! can't help but luv ya Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:46:18 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJC Junk food. I wonder if anyone out there in Joni land has any ideas on this. I eat vegetarian food mostly.Tofu etc but I eat seafood(shellfish mainly). However, I also eat a fair bit of junk food, partly cos I am undisciplined and often go out without eating and then get hungry and eat the nearest thing which is often egg chips(fries) and beans and that sort of thing. High fat and salt. Or the Burger King chips and bean burger or Mcdonalds veggie burger and chips I don't tend to eat chocolate or other sweet things nor do I eat between meals. I tend to go too long between meals frequently like 6-7hours. However, when I am disciplined and eat only what i cook-pulses,cereals tofu, shellfish, extra virgin olive oil, and fruit vegetables, I soon(within 3 days) start to feel very tired, don't sleep well(keep waking up and dreaming a lot), feel tearful and bad temeperd. Usually after 4-5 days of this I give in, eat the crap, sleep well and feel physically better again. BUT i am over weight and want to get rid of it. i am not a binge eater or anything, I eat the three meals a day with plenty of good food. I also excercise daily on a treadmill, my bike, and with weights. Despite my fat, i am fit, my pulse if 70 resting and my pressure is normal and my breathing capacity is also normal at 640(much to the Dr's surprise as I am fat and I smoke!!!). Oh and I also take loads of vitamins daily-1000mg C, calcium, cod liver oil, b complex and a multivit and min. If anyone can either explain why I get so tired and ratty and tearful; when i eat well or tell me how long it is likely to last(if I knew it would go away after a couple of weeks it would help to hold out) or maybe there is somthing I am doing wrong when i think i am eating well. However, I am certain it is the lack of junk food that triggers it. It isn't too low calories cos I make sure I have at least 2000 a day. I do not 'diet'.( I am overweight enough for it to be considered a danger to my health-60lbs) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:41:26 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC Junk food. Colin, I'll leave it to the medical professionals here to come up with their thoughts but my first reaction to what you've described makes me wonder if you may need tests for blood sugar levels and/or anemia. If your condition is related to the foods you eat, your doctor may refer you to a nutritionist. Kakki > I wonder if anyone out there in Joni land has any ideas on this. > I eat vegetarian food mostly.Tofu etc but I eat seafood(shellfish > mainly). > However, I also eat a fair bit of junk food, partly cos I am > undisciplined and often go out without eating and then get hungry and > eat the nearest thing which is often egg chips(fries) and beans and that > sort of thing. High fat and salt. Or the Burger King chips and bean > burger or Mcdonalds veggie burger and chips > I don't tend to eat chocolate or other sweet things nor do I eat between > meals. I tend to go too long between meals frequently like 6-7hours. > However, when I am disciplined and eat only what i cook-pulses,cereals > tofu, shellfish, extra virgin olive oil, and fruit vegetables, I > soon(within 3 days) start to feel very tired, don't sleep well(keep > waking up and dreaming a lot), feel tearful and bad temeperd. Usually > after 4-5 days of this I give in, eat the crap, sleep well and feel > physically better again. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:01:57 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Abstract Art (NJC) Carlton (did I get that right?) wrote: >Different abstract expressionists and pop artists all had their fifteen >minutes by coming up with a gimmick: the first to ... alter the shape of >a >canvas from a square or rectangle into another shape, etc. I suppose that could apply to Frank Stella, who certainly had his 15 minutes. The strange thing is, his "protractor" paintings evoke a real, visceral, positive reaction in me. Very emotional - it just thrills me to see them. They show up a lot as 'office decor' in movies, and I even get a thrill seeing them there. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:18:07 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Sisotowbell Lane Lisa wrote: >if there really is a Sisotowbell Lane and where is it? I'm probably late on this, too :( My dear friend Rin and his girlfriend spent a day searching Saskatoon for Sisotowbell Lane. That was before we found out that it was a relic from Joni's acronym days: Somehow In Spite Of Trouble Ours Will Be Ever Lasting Love. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:31:13 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: NJC Junk food. >If anyone can either explain why I get so tired and ratty and tearful; >when i eat well or tell me how long it is likely to last(if I knew it >would go away after a couple of weeks it would help to hold out) or >maybe there is somthing I am doing wrong when i think i am eating well. >However, I am certain it is the lack of junk food that triggers it. It >isn't too low calories cos I make sure I have at least 2000 a day. I do >not 'diet'.( I am overweight enough for it to be considered a danger to >my health-60lbs) Colin - Could it be WHEN you eat? We don't eat after 6:00 at night. It's not very good to be idle right after you eat .... altho after a savory meal with a good glass of wine ... it's difficult not to :-) Heather ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 02:05:15 +-100 From: colin Subject: RE: JONI UNDER THE COVERS - ---------- From: Takats, Angela Sent: Saturday, June 12, 1999 11:47 To: 'mlg@ukonline.co.uk'; 'joni@smoe.org' Subject: re:JONI UNDER THE COVERS HELLO MARTIN, Nice to hear from you......I'm pretty new to the list too! <> I'm glad you enjoyed reading about the Tribute show, it was an amazing night, especially cos we don't get much 'joni-stuff' down here in Australia. How about in the UK? that's where you are from, isn't it? lots of joni happenings? <> Can't say I've heard many joni covers.....there were some nasty ones at the Tribute...one lady had a bit of a Tony Childs voice - do u know what I mean, like kind of 'flemmy' (oooh, that does sound gross, doesn't it) just really blunt and non-joni sounding. Another girl decided to jazz up Carey, she reminded me of the singer on Ally Mcbeal (who REALLY pisses me off), trying a little too hard. <> I love performing this song! It always gets a reall good responce, even from those who don't know joni's work. (Wondering how listers would rate my interpretation?) I'd be interested to hear how other people do it, think I'll give Nazareth's version a miss thou gh. Thoughts from Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:17:23 +-100 From: colin Subject: RE: why people don't post (NJC) - ---------- From: Takats, Angela Sent: Sunday, June 13, 1999 01:22 To: 'Clancyhart@aol.com'; 'joni@smoe.org' Subject: re:why people don't post (NJC) Amy wrote: <> (Despite being without children) I can relate to these feelings....for years I wrote and wrote and wrote - songs, stories, poems, letters...then I met a wonderful guy and wrote songs about him and then I just stopped writing....for three years. I don't really understand why, I spose different things (kids, partner) become your focus and you can easily lose yourself to them - be consumed by thoughts about and for them, rather than yourself. The thing about writing - I find - is it forces you to look at you, and explore your inner feelings. It's weird, before I met this guy, my creativity often came from depression and lonliness.....finding him stopped these feelings but also stopped me from being in-touch with other emotions. I'm only now beginning to realise the importance - no matter what stage of life one is going thru - of 'staying in touch' with yourself and expressing things - be it thru writing, dance, playing music... <> You sound like a fantastic mother - I must say parenthood scares the hell out of me though, the thought of basically keeping yourself 'available' to your kids, every moment of every day......the thought tires me. It sounds like you need your writing now more than ever - to release feelings before they pile up (mind you - crying feels very good!!) <> KEEP THEM COMING And what your teacher said to you about writing: <> Do have faith, I agree with your teacher, a talent like that doesn't just disappear....the things that you will be able to bring to your writing, when you start again, will be worth the wait. Like you said, the lessons you are learning and emotions you are going thru will make you wiser and much deeper too. <> I don't know if you read Ashara's post awhile back - it was about struggles, and how they make us stronger. I don't know much about being a mother, or much about life really - I'm young and naive - but I do believe in struggles and hardship making us better people - deeper people - richer (in the best sense) for having these experiences. I'm so sorry that you cry at night - I hope you have a shoulder close-by to cry on! But know that your children will thank you for all the precious moments you spend with them and know that your writing - down the track - is going to be deeper and more beautiful than ever! Take care of yourself Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:57:29 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Stay In Touch RickieLee1@aol.com recently posted ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >RE: 'Stay In Touch' > > > >i was always under the impression this song was about donald freed. in >fact, i can swear i read in print somewhere, joni saying that she had not >had time to "process" the reunion with kilauren at the time TTT was being >>composed, and there were, therefore, no songs that dealt with finding her >>daughter and grandson on that disc. so i always listened to this song as >>describing a parting with mr. freed. (does anyone else invent little >scenarios to accompany joni's more personal songs, or am i the only wierdo >who does this? in this particular song, i used to picture either donald >>returning to canada or joni leaving him for california, with promises to, >well, stay in touch. deep, farewell kisses and the sun going down...) >but then i also seem to recall in subsequent interviews joni saying >>(quixotically as ever) that stay in touch was, in fact, about kilauren, >so today, for the first time, i listened to it with that subtext in mind, >and the song moved me in a wholly new, and more powerful way. >__________________________________________________________________________ hey Ric, you've got a good memory, here's the exchange you remembered. From: The Austin Chronicle October 9, 1998 TAMING JONI MITCHELL JONI'S JAZZ, by Jody Denberg AC: Finally, Joni, there's a poignant song on your new album called "Stay in Touch." Last year you reunited with your daughter who you gave up for adoption after she was born. Was that song written about your daughter? JM: When the kids came [to visit], Kilauren's boyfriend heard the song and said, "Kilauren, this is about you." And it is. It's about the beginnings of love, conducting yourself through it wisely. I don't think there's another song like it in existence. How foolish we all are when we're smitten. It applies. It wasn't the catalyst for it. Kilauren came in the middle of the project, and one of the reasons why there was a delay in finishing it was because, well, we just had to spend a lot of time with each other. So we'd spend three weeks and then I'd go back in the studio and then I'd go up there and we'd spend some more time and then I'd go back in the studio. And it definitely applies. But it applies to any new, terrific attraction. It's basically how to steer yourself through that smitten period. ___________________________________________________________________________ http://www.auschron.com/issues/vol18/issue06/music.jmitchell.html ___________________________________________________________________________ Ric, i'm truly sorry to hear about your wife's condition. hopefully you're able to draw strength and solace from the World of Joni Mitchell. Stay In Touch ... take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:26:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Sisotowbell Lane - --- Steve Dulson wrote: > > My dear friend Rin and his girlfriend spent a day > searching Saskatoon > for Sisotowbell Lane. That was before we found out > that it was a relic > from Joni's acronym days: Somehow In Spite Of > Trouble Ours Will Be > Ever Lasting Love. > Now isn't that just like Joni to send us off on a snipe hunt. Kind of makes you wonder what other sorts of red herrings we're fishing for here on the jmdl ... ;-) Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:27:31 EDT From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Rothko, etc. (NJC) This thread is a reminder of the very subjective nature of art itself, especially abstract expressionism. It's interesting to ask different people who like Rothko to explain what they feel when they confront his different paintings. Some see a spirituality in them, while my own experience is that they are empty, and that may be what he is trying to convey. I know that the last paintings he did before he killed himself were all black canvasses. I think Rothko's obsession with loose squares and rectangles is something more akin to outsider art -- men and women who might be clinically diagnosed as schizophrenic or dissociative who are obsessed with a particular image they feel compelled to create over and over again. It's not necessarily great art, and it's seldom great craftsmanship, but it's interesting on its own terms as just one more indication of the uniqueness of each human being and the utter uniqueness of a few individuals. My grandmother took up painting very late in life, and as basic as her paintings were, she had a theme: dead trees. As a child, I remember her telling me that she loved a lithograph in our house of what she saw as a dead and leafless tree. She later went on to paint them for herself. I have no idea what she was trying to convey or what dead trees meant to her, but she found them somehow beautiful and identified with them. Otherwise, she was an extremely simple woman and I never saw her read a book or even a magazine. I remember another woman from film school who "worked" on a video project for close to two years. It was about 45 seconds, and consisted of some Lucite letters and numbers that floated out against a deep blue background with chimes and bubbling water for the audio portion. Then the numbers and letters floated back to where they came from. I had to interrupt her when her four hour time allotment in the editing bay was up and watched her watching her piece. "Isn't it beautiful?" she said, not taking her eyes off the screen. Later, she submitted it to a video festival and the organizer asked her for a short paragraph to describe her piece. She disappeared for an hour, then returned, saying that if she had to describe it, then she was withdrawing the submission. One of my fave things to do was fill up baggies with colored water and then use gaffer's tape to secure them to windows. I don't know why. It was interesting looking. I also liked to tack old pants to the wall with newspapers bulging out of them. - - Clark NP: Best of Mountain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:16:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Rothko, etc. (NJC) - --- CarltonCT@aol.com wrote: > I remember another woman from film school who > "worked" on a video project for > close to two years. It was about 45 seconds, and > consisted of some Lucite > letters and numbers that floated out against a deep > blue background with > chimes and bubbling water for the audio portion. > Then the numbers and > letters floated back to where they came from. I watched her > watching her piece. "Isn't it beautiful?" she said, > not taking her eyes off > the screen. What an incredible story. So what was your answer? I'm not sure how I would respond in that situation. I'm suppose my upbringing would have kicked in ... this woman seems so fragile. I've known several people like her ... with an obsessive focus. It puts them in some place that I can't touch them, and I've often wondered if anybody could. It's not their arrogance, but a determination that seems almost super-human ... and all the more when so seemingly misguided. Thank you for sharing this. Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:33:02 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Rothko, etc. (NJC) Carlton- >This thread is a reminder of the very subjective nature of art itself, >especially abstract expressionism. It's interesting to ask different people >who like Rothko to explain what they feel when they confront his different >paintings. Some see a spirituality in them, while my own experience is that >they are empty, and that may be what he is trying to convey. Very well put, Carlton. I often like to hear how different works of art impress people .... what it makes them feel (or not). <> >My grandmother took up painting very late in life, and as basic as her >paintings were, she had a theme: dead trees. As a child, I remember her >telling me that she loved a lithograph in our house of what she saw as a dead >and leafless tree. She later went on to paint them for herself. I have no >idea what she was trying to convey or what dead trees meant to her, but she >found them somehow beautiful and identified with them. Otherwise, she was >an extremely simple woman and I never saw her read a book or even a magazine. > Gasp! I so love drawing trees! When I read the above, I instantly knew what your grandmother felt. I don't know what it is about them ...... how they are all around us whether dead or alive or some interim metamorphosis. I guess trees remind me of life. For some reason as a child I was fascinated at how one could count the rings on the internal section of a tree to figure out the age of the tree. I thought "what stories trees could tell!" <> Later, she submitted it to a video festival and the organizer >asked her for a short paragraph to describe her piece. She disappeared for >an hour, then returned, saying that if she had to describe it, then she was >withdrawing the submission. In a way .... I don't blame her. > >One of my fave things to do was fill up baggies with colored water and then >use gaffer's tape to secure them to windows. I don't know why. It was >interesting looking. I also liked to tack old pants to the wall with >newspapers bulging out of them. > This sounds neat! Did you overlay the baggies of colored water for different effects? Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:25:26 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: NJC - Natalie Merchant Natalie Merchant!!!! I had a stellar time with the Chilies in NYC yesterday for Natalie Merchants last performance of her tour! We took the train down yesterday afternoon then over to South Seaport for some light dinner before the show. (We missed you Kay!) Brian's mom also came along as she is also into Natalie Merchant. I wish I had a hip and cool mom like that! Lovely lady! The show was at the Neil Simon Theater. Brian and I were discussing how this type (size) theater is an ideal setting for Joni to play in. It is a more intimate atmosphere than places like Madison Square Garden. Natalie was awesome! Now you have to know .... I wasn't a fan of Natalies work before the show. That's only from the standpoint of not knowing her work. I had listened to *Ophellia* a couple of weeks before the show. I must say, Natalie IS well worth seeing. Natalie has a range to her voice that just grabs you ... from forceful to mellow and back again. She is also a great visual performer and knows how to have fun with the audience:-) She came back for three encores! They filmed and recorded the performance so maybe there will be a video or VH1 show in the near future. Brian made a banner which we displayed from the mezzanine (excellent seats - - first row!) So we'll have to look for it in the film footage ;-) I got home rather late (3:00am) but it was WELL worth it! THANK YOU to the Chili's for a fabulous time and turning me on to Natalie! Heather Show Rating: **** Code: **** = excellent! highly recommend! *** = good - would probably see again ** = OK - spent the money - had an "OK" time * = don't bother and if you REALLY want to know I'll tell you ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:31:09 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Abstract Art (NJC) Steve Dulson wrote: > > I suppose that could apply to Frank Stella, who certainly had his > 15 minutes. The strange thing is, his "protractor" paintings evoke > a real, visceral, positive reaction in me. Very emotional - it just > thrills me to see them. They show up a lot as 'office decor' in movies, > and I even get a thrill seeing them there. Frank Stella's had a lot more than 15 minutes, although apparently only that one particular period of his work is well known. His work now consists of huge metal pieces that hang on a wall, intertwined and shaped in French curves, covered with bright paint and glitter. They're very gaudy. One of them hangs at the top of the escalator to the second floor at MoMA and makes me smile every time I see it. It's quite a progression from his protractor paintings, but it's still colorful and based on geometric forms. Art theory wise, Stella's protractor paintings was the first time there was no negative space in a painting, which was something that up until then was a "requirement" in paintings. He demolished that, creating a pure flat space, which was a great influence on other artists. So what may look like just pretty paintings to some people was in fact quite a leap from the art that had existed before. One of his protractor paintings is in a lobby in a building on Park Avenue, high on the wall. I too get a thrill every time I get a glimpse of it. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:58:29 -0700 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: (NJC) Birthday Guuurrrl I wrote: > >And to the rest of you: What's the matter with you(s) anyway? Not enough > >honey in your digests ;~D And then my email got flooded: I get what I deserve ;~D I'm still tryin' to catch up...My birthdays are usually really quiet...usually I spend them alone...But this year I went over to a friend's for wine and cake and conversation...I thought of laying her down and sucking her but I didn't ;~D Next year I'd like to borrow someone's 'willy' so I can be really 'larger than life' and have a house queen (any volunteers?) to take care of all my domestic shit Besides; I've always wondered what it feels like to piss through one :~D Thankyou to all for making this birthday a whole lot brighter! Heather wrote: > And No! we don't have > enough honey in our digests. Keep inflating my great big ego like you have been Heather and the Honey's bound spill all over this list ;~D Much Love to all, Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-Idle-ing by the creek ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:20:48 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: challenge to British JMDLers James read in Canadian press:- < Zekas goes on to say that Joni was about to go to London to work on an album with the London Philharmonic. Well, what are we doing about it, guys?! Someone must know someone in the London Phil with some inside information. Where do they hang out, rehearse etc etc. How about you, Azeem, surely you must have some contacts in the London orchestra world. Colin, maybe? We simply can't let this chance go by. Joni in London! I know it's one of her favourite cities but I understood her health couldn't stand the flight. Perhaps she could just give us one little concert while she's here - I'm fantasizing, I know. Well we can all dweem. I have a friend who is a London based classical musician - I'll see if she knows anything. Anyone else have any information? Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:10:56 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Rothko, etc. (NJC) Don wrote: > I'm not sure how I would respond in that situation. > I'm suppose my upbringing would have kicked in ... > this woman seems so fragile. I've known several > people like her ... with an obsessive focus. It puts > them in some place that I can't touch them, and I've > often wondered if anybody could. It's not their > arrogance, but a determination that seems almost > super-human ... and all the more when so seemingly > misguided. Thank you for sharing this. I had a roomate in college who had been a straight "A" student all her life but had never taken an art class and had never drawn or painted anything. She, however, decided (she told me in all seriousness) that she was going to be the top artist in the school and would go on to be a world famous artist. Everyone single one of her creations involved bones and feathers - she drew them, she sculpted them, she painted them and she arranged actual bones and feathers in various collages on canvas. She never created anything that was not about some variation of bones and feathers. Because she was a very meticulous person, her works were extremely well-crafted and she always received high grades. But I must admit that I was a little baffled then, and still am, as to whether obsessive focus on a singular theme is ultimately great art in the long term. It's not that I did not have an appreciation for her work - it was very well crafted - but I could not understand someone entering the creative arts and wanting to limit themself to one theme over and over. Debra - your posts have been fascinating and very enlightening. Patrick - if you like Hopper - check out John Register. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:01:26 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: NJC - Natalie Merchant > >Thanks for the 4-star review, Heather! Always nice to live vicariously >through someone else's concert experiences! Speaking of cool moms, >Natalie's Mom lives in Greenville and runs a vintage clothing store about >1/2 mile from my house (called the Time Warp). I'm sure Natalie comes to >town to see her Mom but it's always low-key - I've never heard of a Natalie >sighting yet. > Hey Bob! Natalie did do a little sing along with the audience in which every refrain ended "down in North Carolina". She said it was tune they used to sing when she was little. You kind of make up verses as you go along. Sounds like some sort of standard from those parts. > >PS: Just found out that the Jonatha show I was looking forward to is on > 06/24, looks like my travel is going to screw things up - at least > I'm a definite for Bonnie Raitt this Saturday! :~) Oooooo Bonnie! Now there is one excellent show! There's another woman performer that has excellent command of the stage. Enjoy the show, Bob! Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:51:01 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: stay in touch... - --IMA.Boundary.5155939290 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part From: RickieLee1@aol.com AT fdinet on 06/13/99 04:31 PM EDT To: joni@smoe.org AT fdinet@ccMTA-fdlncta10 cc: (bcc: Bob Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp) Subject: stay in touch... - --IMA.Boundary.5155939290 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part ric yaks: <> we like it, we like it!! So good to hear from you my friend - I've been thinking about your family a lot and am glad to hear from you...thanks for "staying in touch". <> Like Simon says, she said that the song was NOT about Kilauren and that it WAS, so what're ya gonna do? Like Joni says, the important thing is what it means to each of us individually - my take on this is that she is almost doing a literal play on words; instead of saying "Stay in Touch" like WEwould on parting company with a friend or loved one, she says "stay in touch" meaning "to stay touching", like you would tell a child to stay in the house or something. Rather than apply the phrase as a cliche, she's using it as an expression of early love/infatuation. I recall early "puppy loves" when you're holding hands and you don't really want to let go, you want to "stay in touch", like Joni says "clinging like fire to fuel, I'm grinning like a fool". If there were aspects of her relationship with Donald Freed in the song, it would have been about the beginning of their relationship as opposed to the parting. It certainly applies to her rekindled relationship with her daughter, I think. Anyway, I'm certain you've got many other things on your mind other than my take on some Joni lyrics, but I just wanted you to know that I was glad you posted and I'll continue to hold you, Judy, and your kids up in my prayers. Bob - --IMA.Boundary.5155939290-- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #259 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?