From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #254 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, June 10 1999 Volume 04 : Number 254 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: (NJC now) Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through [Scott and Jody ] Lurker [Suzanne Simpson ] Re: The Boho Dance [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] whats in a name? (NJC) [Wolfebite@aol.com] Re: E.T.'s Crest and Quest-ion ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: whats in a name? (NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: whats in a name? (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC [LOREN CARTER ] Re: Writing...& the Postless [DreamZvil@aol.com] NJC: FAT32 [catman ] Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC [catman ] A boho dancing his way to Chiacgo [CarltonCT@aol.com] RE: JMDL Digest V4 #253 [Doug Barrett ] Re: MRI Music (NJC) [Lori ] Re: Master List [Susan McNamara ] NJC: why people don't post [tolstoy@freent.com] Re: (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Re: MRI Music (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Re: The Boho Dance [dsk ] Re: A boho dancing his way to Chiacgo ["Kakki" ] Re: MRI Music (NJC) [DreamZvil@aol.com] Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Joni's New Album? ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Re: Joni's New Album? [Don Rowe ] Bob Dylan - Denver, Colorado 990605 ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Re: The Boho Dance NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni's New Album? [jan gyn ] Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC [TreyCozy@aol.com] RE: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC [Jenaya Dawe ] What does MRI mean? NJC [Bounced Message ] Re: After Ashara's bash [TheHotelNH@aol.com] RE: A boho dancing his way to Chiacgo (tangential JC) [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] What's in a Name Take 2 NYC ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Joni Mitchell at 30th Anniversary ADITG? [LRFye@aol.com] Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC [luvart@snet.net] Re: The Boho Dance [luvart@snet.net] Re: What does MRI mean? NJC [Lori ] Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... [PaulS818@aol.com] Re: Thomas Ross, Joni and Jazz [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Joni News in Canada ["Kakki" ] Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: A boho dancing his way to Chiacgo (tangential JC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC [Janet Hess ] Re: After Ashara's bash (ever so NJC) [Janet Hess ] Joni Posters ["Russell George" ] Art Exhibition [Leslie Mixon ] Re: lyrically challenged ["Helen M. Adcock" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:36:34 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: (NJC now) Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through Bob Wrote: > I say we tie him to the WHIPPING POST...yep, it'll be one STORMY MONDAY for > that boy - only ONE WAY OUT. Luckily for him I'm not a RAMBLING MAN or I'd > get over there now. > I'm stuck here at the CROSSROADS in HOT 'LANTA otherwise I'd get him mysef' jody ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:37:11 -0500 From: Suzanne Simpson Subject: Lurker Tough story about the lurker who's a breast cancer survivor and under a great deal of stress at work. I have been distressed thinking about it. Just a note to say that the Americans with Disabilities Act should apply; if you feel your employer is trying to force you out through excessive work, shouldn't you consult an attorney? What do the attorneys on the list say? It may not be easy to get another job, as someone suggested, for someone with such a serious medical history, because of employer discrimination about potential insurance costs. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:30:13 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: The Boho Dance Heather skips along: <> And she similarly sets it up with the bit about the "Priest with the pornographic watch, looking and longing on the sly". Even before I tried to figure out the song, I loved the originality of that lyric. And it sends the same message - Joni feels like she doesn't belong in the Boho dance any more than the Priest with the watch "stricken from (his) uniform". btw, I've never heard of a pornographic watch, pornographic writing pens, yes, drinking glasses with girls that strip as the glass "sweats", but never a watch. I assume there's a nude girl (or 10-year old boy in the Priest's case :-D) on the face of the watch... Bob, looking for hidden penii on his Dr. Seuss watch... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:32:11 EDT From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: whats in a name? (NJC) and i knew a girl back in grade school named April Showers. but my favorite name of all times- which is less ridiculous as poetic- was the woman in my grandma's little town that baked pies for holidays. her name was Cinderella Bones. and my own family with old quaker roots... obediah, laban, ponalipsy, macha, providence, rufus, ora blanche... great old names for well starched farmers. doug ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:39:14 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: E.T.'s Crest and Quest-ion << Eric-which is it Crest or Quest? >> Hi Catman, Actually it's both. *Crest* contains 18 songs, one from each album, which I felt my friends would like. *Quest* contains my personal favs like Paprika Plains & The Wolf.... I'm working on a third CD, The Blest of Joni Mitchell, comprised of all piano songs. E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:45:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: whats in a name? (NJC) Many moons ago, my dad was just starting his legal career, and so he got all the firm's grunt work. This included name changes ... and one story he told was of a woman named Verla, who had married a Czech man whose last name was Vrla ... so she became "Mrs. Verla Vrla." The pronunciation was VER-la ver-LA ... so she had him change it. Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:52:22 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: whats in a name? (NJC) Don Rowe wrote: > Many moons ago, my dad was just starting his legal > career, and so he got all the firm's grunt work. This > included name changes ... and one story he told was of > a woman named Verla, who had married a Czech man whose > last name was Vrla ... so she became "Mrs. Verla > Vrla." And in my hometown, Buffalo, we had a Judge Lawless. Jerry np: Music from the House of Iona ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:12:40 -0400 From: LOREN CARTER Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC In high school, I remember a class mate who was from a family of mediterranean (sp?) origin named Peters. They had a daughter named Vasliki. She went by Liki Peters. Still cracks me up to remember her name. Loren..... NP...Sound of Silence...Paul and Art >And I went to elementary school with a girl named Mary Chris Moss. >No kidding! >Jerry >np: Michael Feinstein - The M.G.M. Album ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:50:41 -0700 From: Ken Corral Subject: Re: The Boho Dance Here is an excerpt from a radio interview circa 1980. This was recorded 5 years or so after it was written so it doesn't speak to the origin of the song, just a general application. Jim Ladd: Like other artists who’ve started poor and went on to achieve the material trappings of success, Joni Mitchell has taken her knocks from people whose career has not yet done so well. JM: “Wait until they make some money, they’re gonna turn into hypocrites real fast. Ya know, what are ya gonna do with it?....that’s a boho dance. The poor artist is always contemptuous of the rich artist and there are a lot of good things to poke at, ya know...and it does corrupt some people. It depends on what you were motivated [by], if you were money motivated in the first place, when you get your money you’re going to have reached your goal in a certain way, ya know...but, if you’re an artist, ya know...look at Picasso, he was fabulously wealthy and it didn’t mess with his output at all...but when he first became wealthy his peer group turned on him and attacked him and he was very flamboyant at first and had black maids, ya know in ruffled aprons and drove big cars and did a lot of flashy things, but....that’s an experience, why not? You experience your money, you find out what the pros and cons [are]..you find out the tremendous like...well,...I won’t get into the prejudice against the rich, but I’ve been poor and I’ve been middle class, ya know..and I’ve been very wealthy....none of those...you can be happy or unhappy in any financial situation.” Ken C- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:42:04 EDT From: DreamZvil@aol.com Subject: Re: Writing...& the Postless In a message dated 6/10/99 1:52:43 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Clancyhart@aol.com writes: << she said "are you still writing, amy?" and i said "i haven't written a story in eight years." and she just shook her head and said," come back to it someday. it's still there." >> Amy- This made me stop and think. Then I realized - there is so much more to writing than just *writing*. There will be whole chunks of time that you will just be living, experiencing, challenging and being challenged. And occasionally, after a certain amount of time - there will be one day that you sit down in front of a big pad of paper, pen in hand. Or in front of a blank screen, hands poised above the keyboard. And then you leap... Be grateful for and happy in the times of experience and quiet growth. And all that leads and lends to the writing itself. I have subscribed and unsubscribed to this list more times than I care to count. I learn so much from all of you! Occasionally I become overwhelmed by so much going on around me, and need to go into my shell for quiet time. But I know you are always there for me, when I choose to join in once again! It's a good feeling. Susan of Dreamzville ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:48:43 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJC: FAT32 I have just installed W98. Is it worth converting to FAT32? The programme has told me I have no programs incompatible with it but it will take a few hours to do it. grateful for any responses to this. ta colin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:49:37 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC I don't get why this funny. Am I missing something? LOREN CARTER wrote: > In high school, I remember a class mate who was from a family of > mediterranean (sp?) origin named Peters. They had a daughter named > Vasliki. She went by Liki Peters. Still cracks me up to remember her > name. > > Loren..... > > NP...Sound of Silence...Paul and Art > > >And I went to elementary school with a girl named Mary Chris Moss. > >No kidding! > > >Jerry > > >np: Michael Feinstein - The M.G.M. Album ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:47:25 EDT From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: A boho dancing his way to Chiacgo I love Marian's interpretation of The Boho Dance, one of my fave songs ever, just for the wistful trumpets in the background alone. The term "subterranean" was once applied to the Beat writers, Kerouac most prominently. Some of Kerouac's writing and his contemporaries was actually banned as obscene, so they were underground in that sense as well. This thread relates to some other discussions over the past month. In the Boho Dance, Joni (ever the queen of duality) laments the romance of the struggling artist, or what someone once described as the "self-congratulatory dance of the failed artist." There can be a pride in an artist whose work is unrecognized, as if his work is too sophisticated, or remote, or ahead of its time, to grab him any attention. An artist can therefore vault himself to the top of a secret hierarchy where only a choice few can revel in a lofty appreciation. Sometimes only the artist knows just how really special he is - -- and sometimes he may be right. The common mistake is assuming that what's popular is bad. THE PAINTED WORD, from which the term Boho dance is taken, is a brilliant book in which Wolfe documents how much of modern art is a sophistic enterprise which requires both an artist AND a critic to lend meaning and interpretation to an empty canvas, or erased pencil marks, or a single yellow line down the middle of a blue field. These experiments in abstraction need a text to justify them -- a painted word, and a critic proves his own mettle by discovering these artists and then explicating their work. This climaxes in the final work of art that Wolfe mentions, in which nothing is offered but words themselves, where the critic has surpassed the artist as the focus of the effort. I'm the first to say that Rothko, Jackson Pollack and the other abstract expressionists will not be hanging with the Van Gogh's, Rembrandts and Picasso's in the museums of the future. And those modern painters have had their musical counterparts, some of whom would think they had failed if their music were ever to be embraced by the masses. If I had to mention a Joni album as my ultimate fave, it would be C & S, but I know that even back when it was released, that some Joni lovers lamented that our treasured goddess was no longer an acquired taste, but the flavor of the month. I was like that, snotty/snobby little teenager that I was. Just what kind of people were showing up at her concerts? Madonna for one. But for me C & S will always be sacred music because one of the qualities of great art is sincerity. The most sophistic construction which is void of any real feeling or expression is less interesting than a genuine folk effort. I think every hit song on C & S is as sincere as those on Hejira or Turbulent Indigo if less complex or cerebral. Setting out to please a critic and titillate someone on a purely cerebral level is all about struggling up some elitist ladder - it's not about art. Anyway, I will be in Chicago from the 15th to the 20th for the opening of my play SELF HELP, described by one critic as "A brilliant and excoriating satire on the psychotherapy industry." Ever the enlightened self-promoter, I say come and see it. I hope it is a smashing success and will leap to a New York stage and end my boho status forever! For any current boho's who need to use their money for food, there are a few comps around. The play was very well received here in LA and had four runs. It will make you laugh, especially if you have ever been in therapy, and it has Joni content! Oh, and it should have a fair amount of male nudity which has nothing to do with trying to sell tickets. A couple of Chicago JMDLers contacted me a few weeks ago. Regardless of the play, perhaps we could all meet for lunch or a drink? Let me know, I hear you are a nice group! And if anyone can tell me where I might go to sing my own stuff on guitar at some open mike, I would really appreciate it! peace to you all (and in Kosovo finally!) Clark Carlton NP: David Lahm, Jazz Takes on Joni Mitchell (Solid Love just makes me smile!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:01:43 -0500 From: Doug Barrett Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V4 #253 Joni songs for my 5 hours or so: Both Sides Now Woodstock All I Want, My Old Man, Blue, This Flight Tonight, River, Carey Banquet, Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire, Barandgrill, Still Like to See You Sometime, Woman of Heart & Mind, Judgement of the Moon & Stars C&S, Help Me, Free Man in Paris, Just Like this Train, Car on a Hill, Twisted In France they Kiss on Main Street, Edith & the Kingpin, DITS, Shades of Scarlet Conquering, HOSL, Boho Dance, Sweet Bird Coyote, Amelia, A Strange Boy, Hejira, Black Crow, Refuge of the Roads Talk to Me, Otis & Marlena, DJRD, Off Night Backstreet Dream Flat Tires, Solid Love Good Friends My Secret Place, Tea Leaf Prophesy, Cool Water, The Beat of Black Wings Come in From the Cold, Slouching Towards Bethlehem, The Windfall How do You Stop?, The Magdalene Launderies, Yvette in English, The Sire of Sorrow Harlem in Havana, Man from Mars, Love Puts on a New Face, The Crazy Cries of Love, Stay in Touch, Tiger Bones (I suppose one can infer my album faves from this list.) Doug ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:59:19 -0500 From: Lori Subject: Re: MRI Music (NJC) At 08:20 AM 6/10/99 -0400, Bob wrote: >Be sure and remind us specifically when this is happening so >we can all lift you up in our thoughts during the ordeal - the awesome >power of this group can be pretty amazing... Thank you all for your suggestions on music to be still by. If I own it on CD, I'll bring it. And if I don't, I just may buy it. I will look at this as an opportunity to really listen for a change...and to unearth some music I haven't played in a while, as I tend to not rotate the collection. Thanks also for the concern. I'll be in an open MRI. So I won't feel closed in. But I do expect it will be hard to stay so still for so long. This will happen at 8 a.m. CST next Wed., Thurs. and Fri., each for about an hour and a half or more. So, Bob, you can send your good karma and positivity in the direction of Chicago at that hour. For those who are wondering, this will lead to spinal fusion to correct scoliosis in Sept. (why I can't consider the Jonifest). It'll take a while to recover from it, but I will recover. Except I'll be "a stiff," as one Cuban orthopedist once warned me about the procedure. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:17:04 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Master List I agree with Lori that confidentiality is an issue here. Especially since there are 585 people here and only a portion of them post. Can someone email me privately about what the original issue was? Just curious, Sue >Jerry wrote, in part: > >> But there are so many times I need an >> address and can't get it until they post. If everyone agrees, rather >> than making it available at any time, forward it once to the list and we >> could save it for future reference? > >This might be treading dangerous waters, and I don't think everyone will >agree. The JMDL already has a feature for those who want their email >addresses published, that being the Gallery. Probably the best thing to do, >Jerry, is to begin adding everyone to your email program's address book. > >Lori, who purposely did not change this subject to NJC >San Antonio ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:18:08 -0400 From: tolstoy@freent.com Subject: NJC: why people don't post In response to amy's comments about reasons for not posting more often, I was so touched by your letter, amy, and identified w/what you said about motherhood either sapping creative juices or just being the recipient of instead; so many times have I wondered and felt the same!! You sound like a great mom and I want to encourage you to continue what you're doing--your writing, this list, any extraneous worries; these things will always be there for you when you can get back to them--but, your kids won't. They will only be young for a short amount of time, and you will never have that time to live over again...enjoy it now, deliriously, if you can! You mention your writing; I, too, have dabbled in the art, and assure you: it WILL still be around!! Try writing a little every night, or a couple nights a week, or keep a journal, or indulge yourself in any number of little "devices" to keep one's self 'adult-minded' after dealing w/your kids all day long.....as John Lennon said, "whatever gets you through the night, it's all right..." Or, here's a way-out suggestion: maybe you could even listen to some Joni Mitchell stuff--I hear she's pretty good! (Actually, what I hear is the collective gasp of all the frequent "listers/posters" at this last blasphemy, and now, the individualized thudding as each one hits the floor in an indignant faint--LOL!) But, it's true.....a lot of you out there are wondering why some of us don't post more often, and this girl-woman-genius, amy, has hit it hard on the head, I bet, for a good contingent of women out there....we love Joni too, and have things we'd sometimes like to say, but I've noticed for myself that, by the time we deal w/the kids, answer questions (mainly dealing w/what's for dinner, when IS dinner, etc.), GET dinner, clean up, etc. etc. and, especially if we're the ONLY ones (no partners), just sitting down to VIEW the list is a luxury--posting to it might be risking that one last working piece of our brain that's necessary to make it to the bed w/o seriously injuring ourselves.... But, every once in a while, we make it and wonder "who was there to hear"..... Amy, I also wanted to remind you that there's an on-going glossary project that's fun to work on, and allows more flexibility as far as the actual writing goes: it's your time as you can manage it, there are endless references from which you can choose, and because of that, it allows more creativity, also.... So don't despair, there are lots of us who feel the same--that motherhood, creativity, and career options are just components of a crazy, cosmic pizza that somehow finds itself on the ceiling and the floor more often than in the oven, being baked to perfection. And, as mothers, we know that sometimes, we just have to pick it up, brush it off, and put it back on the plate, 'cause that's all we have!! So, anybody out there got a guess or a suggestion for a good "single mother theme song", to keep us going, give us some energy when we're about to wind down, does Joni "speak to" mothers, or is the "artist" who she is? Is she universal or subterranean by her own desires? Help me............Deborah ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:22:03 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Bob writes: > Sounds like we need to plan a "Philly Jonifest Part II"...Marty? Glen? > Catgirl? Brian? (Well, I KNOW Brian will be up for it...) WAIT!! Wait for me!!! I'll be living in Philly by the first week of August!!! Or will I just have to wait for "Philly Jonifest Part III"?? Lori in San Antonio for now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:28:52 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: MRI Music (NJC) Hi Lori, Everyone has great suggestions about Joni music to play; for non-Joni music, have you considered anything by Andreas Vollenweider or similar "new age" artists? Good luck to you. Lori San Antonio NP: the hum of the laser printer and the CPU at work ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:36:54 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: The Boho Dance David Marine wrote: > > It has been suggested that the Boho dance is the relationship between > critic and artist? I can see that as part of it. I would be interested > to hear from those who have read the Wolfe book "The Painted Word." It's been a long time since I read this. It was a magazine article, and I guess it was considered so influential that it was published as a book. It was one of those have-to-read books in school for me (actually the professor handed out xerox copies of the article), so of course I didn't pay much attention. Your post has made me curious about it though (that so often happens on this list), so think I'll find it and read it again. It might make more sense to me now. I've never associated it with Joni's song, except as the title, but that thought may change once I become reacquainted with it. > ... In other words, the artist as Bohemian. I always heard this song as being about the myth of the starving artist, working only for love of the art, having no material needs and creating exactly what the artist wants with no thought at all of material rewards. Anything else is selling out or going commercial. Aaarrrgghhhh! That's a relatively new idea (think it started with Van Gogh) and it is a very destructive one. But it's certainly one I was ingrained with in art school almost 20 years ago. The training might be different now, but "commercial art" was so below what we as fine artists were doing, that the idea (even now!) of doing something like web design feels like a betrayal of, what? I'm not even sure. And then there IS the marketplace, and fine art here is often sold with that romantic myth of the artist in mind. Collectors are told the value of the art will increase (not always the case), and collectors don't want to hear about (and are not told about) the artist also doing any "commercial" art. Right away, that's not a "real" artist. And yet the reality is there are relatively few "blue chip" artists. Even if artists sell paintings, they almost always need another source of income; often it's teaching, which seems "acceptable" (but never appealed to me). Somewhere I read Joni talking about art in Canada as flowing more freely between the "commercial" and "fine" arts; that there's not the rigid distinction that exists in the U.S. between the two. What a difference that would make in one's attitude toward creating! It's no wonder she can so easily go between paintings, and then her commercial art album covers, and music. (I can't imagine her writing a jingle for a TV ad though, but you never know.) > The lines that confuse me most are "And you were in the parking > lot/Subterranean by your own design." I've always read these lines to > mean that literally the person being addressed was the architect of the > building, which would imply to me a certain prestige, ... I never pictured an actual parking lot, but thought this referred to not going anywhere, not being in the driver's seat, not even using the vehicle that COULD get you somewhere if you chose to use it. "Subterranean" to me just means that the person is trying to keep that attitude hidden. And I also think of Bob Dylan when I hear that word; don't know why. > ...The metaphors of legs as social and personal > strength/vulnerability and stockings as shielding or armor appear in > many songs. .... I believe that at some deep level these > images are probably tied to her polio. ... Now that you mention, yes, and what a fascinating idea! Joni wasn't expected to walk again, so the fact that an 8 (9?) year old had such a destructive disease and overcame it has to be filtered through her music somehow. Great post, David. It's a lot to think about. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:20:27 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: A boho dancing his way to Chiacgo I'm really liking this discussion and it certainly has elevated a song that I did not pay much attention to in the past, even though I have experienced some of its' themes. I couldn't agree more with these points made by Clark: > The common mistake is assuming that what's popular is bad. > But for me C & S will always be sacred music because one of the qualities of > great art is sincerity. The most sophistic construction which is void of any > real feeling or expression is less interesting than a genuine folk effort. > I think every hit song on C & S is as sincere as those on Hejira or Turbulent > Indigo if less complex or cerebral. Setting out to please a critic and > titillate someone on a purely cerebral level is all about struggling up some > elitist ladder - it's not about art. I grew up in an environment where art, whether it be painting, crafts, ceramics, music, writing, etc., was regarded as a creative expression, usually of one's own vision and experience. It was a purely joyful and often exhilarating experience. Naturally, I was drawn to majoring in the fine arts when I went off to college. That is where harsh reality struck and I saw how "art" to some people did not even remotely resemble that way I had experienced it. I met people who had never picked up a paintbrush in their life suddenly deciding that they wanted to be an "artiste" and who adopted all manner of, in my opinion, pretensions, to "fit in" with their conception what is was to be an "artist". They were not so much motivated simply by an urge to create as much as they seemed to be looking for some cool new identity for themselves. This was initially very disheartening to me but eventually I sorted it all out. To me, the bottom line question is "Is it sincere?" If it is, the originality of the art will be naturally inherent and clearly apparent to the eye of the beholder. There are no traces of elitism in the truly great artists - on the contrary, many are very humble and generous. Best of everything with your play, Clark - I wish I could be there! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:40:06 EDT From: DreamZvil@aol.com Subject: Re: MRI Music (NJC) In a message dated 6/10/99 8:34:24 PM !!!First Boot!!!, LRFye@aol.com writes: << have you considered anything by Andreas Vollenweider or similar "new age" artists? >> Enya would be nice! I have rarely felt/heard music more healing than hers. Wow...five hours MRI is lengthy. My daughter has to have a follow-up MRI every year (it's usually about an hour), but hasn't gone the CD route. It's a good idea, though, and we'll pack hers next time we go. :) Susan of Dreamzville ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:44:36 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC In my graduating high school class there was a guy named Rusty Nail & a girl named Cherry Bush. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:36:23 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Joni's New Album? Hi there, Why hasn't there been any talk about Joni's new album project? ( ...or have I simply missed it? ) This is what Billboard Magazine says : " Joni Mitchell is working on an album with standards with an orchestra. *I get hooked*, she says, *when I performed with The El Nino Orchestra at a 1998 benefit organized by Don Henley. An arranger is working on the material right now. I'm just going to come in to the studio and sing the songs like Frank.* Among the songs she's recording are Billie Holiday's *Comes Love* and *You've Changed*, as well as *Answer Me My Love*, and *Stormy Weather*. Mitchell notes that she's also singing a few standards she wrote, including *Both Sides Now*. *The album starts with how nice love is and the goes into the pits*, she adds with a laugh. The project is being produced by her ex-husband, Larry Klein. " That's it! Take care, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:24:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni's New Album? - --- Peter Holmstedt wrote: > > Joni Mitchell says, > I'm just going > to come in to the studio and sing the songs like > Frank.* > Dear Joni, While we're all sure that your Sinatra impression is totally killer ... I think we'd prefer in you went in and sang like yourself. Thanks. Don Rowe (ashamed of himself for this worst of all possible jokes) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:26:17 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Bob Dylan - Denver, Colorado 990605 990605, Denver, Colorado : 1. Friend Of The Devil (acoustic) 2. Mr. Tambourine Man (acoustic) 3. Masters Of War (acoustic) 4. Tomorrow Is A Long Time (acoustic) 5. Tangled Up In Blue (acoustic) 6. Rank Strangers (acoustic) 7. Cold Irons Bound 8. Just Like A Woman (Bob on harp) 9. Not Dark Yet 10. Highway 61 Revisited 11. Love Sick 12. Maggie's Farm 13. Blowin' In The Wind (acoustic) 14. Sounds Of Silence (Duet with Paul Simon - Bob on harp) 15. I Walk The Line (Duet with Paul Simon - Larry on fiddle) 16. Blue Moon Of Kentucky (Duet with Paul Simon - Larry on fiddle) 17. Forever Young (Duet with Paul Simon) Charlie Sexton on guitar. Larry Campbell on guitar, mandolin, pedal steel guitar, and fiddle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:27:30 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: More Bob Dylan News Three Bob Dylan Remasters Have Been Released Columbia Records has released newly remastered versions of "Street Legal," "Greatest Hits" and "Greatest Hits Volume II". All three albums have been remastered from the original tapes and "Street-Legal" has been remixed under the supervision of the original producer. The packaging for each release has been restored to include all artwork from the original vinyl releases. Limited Edition Live Bob Dylan EP released For a limited time participating record stores are offering a limited edition Bob Dylan sampler free with the purchase of any two of the three newly re-issued albums. Supplies are limited so check your local record store for this limited offer! The sampler details: BOB DYLAN Million Miles Live Recordings 1997-1999 1. Love Sick (Live "Grammy®" Version) (5:28) Performed at Radio City Music Hall, New York, NY on Feb. 25, 1998 for the 40th Annual Grammy Awards telecast. Mixed by Mark Howard. 2. Can't Wait (Live Version) (6:03) Live "Field Recording" at El Rey Theatre, Los Angeles, CA on Dec. 20, 1997 3. Million Miles (Live Version) (4:45) Live "Field Recording" at Broome County Arena, Binghamton, NY on Feb. 19, 1999. 4. Cold Irons Bound (Live Version) (6:49) Live "Field Recording" at El Rey Theatre, Los Angeles, CA on Dec. 20, 1997 Written by Bob Dylan. Published by Special Rider Music (SESAC). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:29:48 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: The Boho Dance NJC dsk wrote: > "Subterranean" to me just means that the person is trying to keep that > attitude hidden. And I also think of Bob Dylan when I hear that word; > don't know why. "Subterranean Homesick Blues" "look out kid, it's somethin' you did don't know when, but you're doin' it again...." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:37:16 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Joni's New Album? >--- Peter Holmstedt wrote: >> Joni Mitchell says, >> I'm just going >> to come in to the studio and sing the songs like >> Frank.* >> >Dear Joni, >While we're all sure that your Sinatra impression is >totally killer ... I think we'd prefer in you went in >and sang like yourself. Thanks. >Don Rowe >(ashamed of himself for this worst of all possible jokes) Maybe it's a translation problem. Maybe Joni went into the studio in an aggressive mood and said to the producer "May I be frank with you?" - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:34:43 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC Hi all.. I know a woman named Lucky Apple. But the best is my childhood art teacher. Marge Utt-Hole. Why she chose to hyphenate is beyond me?? Trey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:42:59 -0700 From: Jenaya Dawe Subject: RE: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC I know a girl named Patty O'Furniture Jenaya >Hi all.. >I know a woman named Lucky Apple. >But the best is my childhood art teacher. Marge Utt-Hole. Why she chose to >hyphenate is beyond me?? >Trey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:43:08 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: What does MRI mean? NJC From: Winfried_Huhn= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:56:24 +0200 Would someone be so nice as to explain to a non-native speaker what "MRI" means? I get from the context that it must be some kind of medical examination. Is it the one with a magnetron, where you are sucked into something that looks like a tunnel, and which makes terrible noise as it makes pictures of your nervous system? Winfried BTW the German name would be "Kernspintomographie" ("Nucleus-spin-tomography") I hate this examination! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:58:09 EDT From: TheHotelNH@aol.com Subject: Re: After Ashara's bash Hey...I just had to respond to this. When I first saw this subject, I thought it said "After Ashara's BATH." My first thought was, "Boy, people on the list post about anything on their minds!" I started reading the post and realized what was going on. I wondered, for just a minute, about the festivities Ashara has planned for after the bath.... Chris NP: Otis And Marlena...(DJRD, my latest addition to the collection, has grown on me quickly.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:22:43 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: A boho dancing his way to Chiacgo (tangential JC) CarltonCT@aol.com Wrote on Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:47:25 EDT <<>> I don't disagree with the central point of your post, Clark, but this statement took me by surprise. I think the work of Rothko and especially Pollack has inherent beauty (or expression) that does not require critical interpretation. Of what little I know about abstract expressionism, almost none of it comes from what I've read. It comes from what I've seen. Pollack's canvasses vibrate with energy and tension like no other artists I've seen. That's a unique and specific expressive experience that fills his work with relevance. Any future museum without Pollack is in my opinion incomplete. I share your (and "The Boho Dance"'s) concern with the foregrounding of contrived purposes in art, and I believe that many artists and many critics share blame for this. IMO, what makes art "art" is that it provokes and responds to emotions (which can be defined very broadly). The complexity, specificity, and uniqueness of the emotional experience created by a work is the measure of its worth. Both artists and critics should keep this in mind. My favorite criticism is that which communicates the emotional thrill (or lack thereof) of the experience. A good critic can describe that experience vividly, and by contextualizing it, help us to understand it. Anyway, I think Pollock painted for the emotion of painting first and foremost. And I think his work shows it. Critics be damned. Or not. - --Michael, wondering what Patrick has to say about all of this - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 00:59:23 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: What's in a Name Take 2 NYC Just got in from seeing James Taylor at the Royal Albert Hall to be greeted with Mr & Mrs Grocock, Marge Utt-Hole, Mary Chriss Moss and now Patty 0'Furniture. Please please -- no more tonight - I've just had hysterics and woken everybody up! (it's well past midnight here). James was great - had Russ Kunkel on drums - said he can remember them both being up in the balcony at the Troubador in LA listening to Carole King sing 'You've Got a Friend', never thinking he would be singing that song every night for the next thirty years!! I sang Joni's harmony with him tonight (in my head!) Night night PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:37:57 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell at 30th Anniversary ADITG? Here's the reply I received from "Lisa" at A Day In The Garden: - -------------------------------------- Hi Lori, Unfortunately, I can't tell you if Joni will be performing or not. The only thing I can say is that there is going to be a season of events beginning with Britney Spears on July 4 with fireworks following the show. My best suggestion for you at this point is to keep checking the website. As soon as new event and act information becomes available we will post it to the site. See you at Yasgur's Farm. - -------------------------------------- Ptthhfffft! : P Not if Joni won't be there! Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:45:57 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC At 04:44 PM 6/10/99 -0400, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: > > >In my graduating high school class there was a guy named Rusty Nail & a >girl named Cherry Bush. > > > I graduated with a girl named Sue Pease. Our response was ..... well I hope so! Heather ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:51:32 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: The Boho Dance At 02:30 PM 6/10/99 -0400, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: > >Bob, looking for hidden penii on his Dr. Seuss watch... > Is that a Cat in the Hat watch? If so, you'll have to look for Thing 1 and Thing 2 :-D Heather ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:24:42 -0500 From: Lori Subject: Re: What does MRI mean? NJC Hi Winfried. Yes, I think you are thinking of the same procedure. But now they make the machines without the tunnel you refer to. I don't know if they still make all the racket. MRI is an abbreviation for magnetic resonance imaging. At 03:43 PM 6/10/99 -0600, you wrote: >From: Winfried_Huhn= >Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:56:24 +0200 > >Would someone be so nice as to explain to a non-native speaker what >"MRI" means? > >I get from the context that it must be some kind of medical examination. >Is it the one with a magnetron, where you are sucked into something that >looks like a tunnel, and which makes terrible noise as it makes pictures >of your nervous system? > >Winfried > >BTW the German name would be "Kernspintomographie" >("Nucleus-spin-tomography") >I hate this examination! > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:25:14 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC In a message dated 6/10/99 1:15:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << I knew a boy named Forest Plant. >> I grew up down the block from the Kane family: Sugar, Candy, and I've forgotten the 3rd sister's name. They were really sweet though. Har har har Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:26:05 EDT From: PaulS818@aol.com Subject: Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... << In a message dated 6/9/99 4:03:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << Now, can anybody correctly come up with another Hoagy song that holds the record for the longest song title?? >> Well it's not a Hoagy song, but back in the 70s Fairport Convention released a single with the title "Sir B. Mackenzie's Daughter's Lament for the 77th Mounted Lancers' Retreat from the Straits of Loch Knombe on the Occasion of the Announcement of her Marriage to the Laird of Kinleakie." I recall them saying at the time they were trying to get into the Guinness Book of Records. Not surprisingly with a title like that it was an instrumental! Paul (who used to lurk on the list a couple of years ago and has just returned.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:31:17 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Thomas Ross, Joni and Jazz I should have said it in the earlier message: I have never heard JM's MINGUS. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:21:36 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni News in Canada James relayed: Joni Mitchell gets solo art show in Saskatoon Deirdre Kelly Wednesday, June 9, 1999 Singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell is to have a major exhibition of her painting at Saskatoon's Mendel Art Gallery, The Globe and Mail has learned. The exhibition, her first art show in her native Canada, is planned for the summer of 2000 and will examine links between her writing, music and painting. Los Angeles-based Mitchell, who considers herself a regional Prairie artist, grew up in Saskatoon and has always maintained a connection to the place and the surrounding area. The Mendel plans to offer the exhibition for tour regionally, nationally and internationally. I've been drooling over this fantastic news all day and it's wonderful to hear that the exhibit will be touring internationally. But gee, if this doesn't just tip the scales for me to really plan a trip to Saskatoon (Oh Evian....Evian....darling....when will you begin taking reservations for Jonifest 2000?? ;-D) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:37:56 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC So addicting.. We have a foot doctor here named Dr. Smelsey and an orthopaedic surgeon named Dr. Pinchback. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:24:53 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC Terry wrote: > I grew up down the block from the Kane family: Sugar, Candy, and I've > forgotten the 3rd sister's name. They were really sweet though. Har har har Oh geez, we had a Candy Kane in my neighborhood, too! Also a guy named Dusty Rhodes. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:46:00 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: A boho dancing his way to Chiacgo (tangential JC) In a message dated 6/10/99 6:24:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mwyarbro@zzapp.org writes: << Anyway, I think Pollock painted for the emotion of painting first and foremost. And I think his work shows it. Critics be damned. >> Pollock was also known as a "process" or "action painter", where the act of painting was as important if not more so, than the actual end product. I love abstract expressionist painters and personally think that Rothko was incredibly brilliant, though I certainly enjoy the others who were mentioned in this post, particularly DeKooning. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:51:42 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Take 2NJC And just down the street from me there operates (as it were) podiatrist Dr. Korn. At 10:37 PM 6/10/1999 EDT, TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: >So addicting.. > >We have a foot doctor here named Dr. Smelsey and an orthopaedic surgeon named >Dr. Pinchback. > >Terry > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:57:01 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: After Ashara's bash (ever so NJC) To tell the truth, it might be helpful for Ashara to pay a visit to Terry's Dr. Smelsey. ;-p At 05:58 PM 6/10/1999 EDT, TheHotelNH@aol.com wrote: >Hey...I just had to respond to this. When I first saw this subject, I >thought it said "After Ashara's BATH." My first thought was, "Boy, people on >the list post about anything on their minds!" I started reading the post and >realized what was going on. I wondered, for just a minute, about the >festivities Ashara has planned for after the bath.... >Chris > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:55:58 +1000 From: "Russell George" Subject: Joni Posters Hi it's Russell from Down Under again. After searching the Net for hours I finally discovered a site with some JM promo posters for sale. If you're interested, go to http://www.photowrld.com/ , scroll to the bottom of the page, click on 'Search the Site', and type in 'mitchell'. There are three posters for sale. I bought TTT and Hits & Misses off them a few weeks ago without any problems - they have a secure server too. Regards, Russell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:33:31 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Art Exhibition What exciting news about Joni's art exhibition summer 2000! Here's a link to the Mendel Art Gallery: http://collection.nlc-bnc.ca/100/200/301/canadiana/Enhigh/content/institut/16/mushome.htm The old man agrees that we should plan our summer 2000 vacation to Canada around this event. I'm going to research nearby accommodations and I'll report my findings to the list. Anyone else interested? Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:34:11 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: lyrically challenged Pat wrote: >here she KNOWS Steve Stills! (ie: she was *not* a big star then >but very happy to just be one of us) (not to say that she wouldn't >be/isn't now...) I think she said she went to school with him... an' >'m goin' 'wow, cool! really? wow, you KNOW him?!?' it's really a >trip, thinking of it now... after all this time and the way things have My pedantic preoccupation with trivialities rears it's head once again! I'm confused here about Joni saying she went to school with Stephen Stills? He was born in Dallas, and schooled there as well as Houston, Illinois and Florida. He then went to a military academy in Petersburg, Florida, then in the late 50's moved to Panama, then Costa Rica, before making his way to New York, via New Orleans. Are you sure she wasn't talking about Neil Young? Because he was born in Toronto, then spent much of his early years in Omemee, Ontario, then Winnipeg - where he reportedly met Joni for the first time. So she is far more likely to have been at "school" with him than with Stills! Not flaming, just have to get the facts straight, or I won't sleep tonight! Helen ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #254 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?