From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #251 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, June 9 1999 Volume 04 : Number 251 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Jazz Snobs & The Ultimate Backup Band ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: E.T.'s Crest and Quest-ion ["Kakki" ] Re: Confessions of a Non-Poster NJC [dsk ] Re: Lyric Game ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Day in Garden correction [AUDRE60317@aol.com] Re: Thomas Ross, Joni and Jazz NJC [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Confessions of a Non-Poster NJC [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] J. Collins sings "Chelsea Morning" for Clintons [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: lyrically challenged ["P. Henry" ] Re: lyrically challenged ["P. Henry" ] Re: New Contest? ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Re: Master List [Phyliss Ward ] Re: NJC Belafonte (and Julie Andrews) [MDESTE1@aol.com] living room - nyc (NJC) [Bry-Bry ] RE: NJC - current art exhibits - somewhat long [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] New contest [Bounced Message ] H.ELP ME.....need an anwer to a tough question!!!! [Bounced Message ] Re: The Boho Dance (long) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: The Boho Dance (long) [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: H.ELP ME.....need an anwer to a tough question!!!! [Mark Domyancich <] JONI UNDER THE COVERS [Martin Giles ] Today in Joni History - June 10 [Today in Joni History ] RE: (NJC now) J. Collins sings 'Chelsea Morning' for Clintons [mwyarbro@z] Re: JONI UNDER THE COVERS [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] RE: HELP ME--Tough Question [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... [Susan McNamara ] Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... [Bob.Muller@fluordanie] Bob and Paul (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Songlynx Online Database ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 03:42:22 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Jazz Snobs & The Ultimate Backup Band Louis Lynch responded: Subject: RE: Thomas Ross, Joni and Jazz << It reminds me of a great conversation I had with my brother Craig after I sent him Joni's "Mingus" for a birthday present. He's a pro jazz guitarist, I'm an Irish harpist and classical pianist: Craig: It's nice Lou, but it's not REAL jazz. I mean, it's an interpretation of a jazz great, but it's not REAL jazz. >> I'm so happy that you were finally able to convince your brother that Joni is a *real* jazz musician, Louis! I can't convey the frustration I've encountered with friends seriously into jazz who dismiss Joni's as a wannabe (without resorting to profanity)! Gee Zeus, the pop world abandoned Joni for delving deeply into jazz. & Jazz snobs have poo-pooed her amazing compositions until very recently. Thank you, David Lamm, for such an impressive take! I can't imagine a finer backup band than Joni enjoyed on Shadows & Light. When she tours again it should definately be with Pat Metheny & Lyle Mays! Someone recently suggested that Elton John would do justice to Paprika Plains now that Joni no longer plays piano. Although I adore Elton this thought make me cry even more than the thought of Joni giving up playing piano. Not even Lyle could do justice to this song! I have no doubt that the JMDL played a major role in Joni's decision to tour last year. I base this opinion upon the songs she chose for PWWAM & the fact that she invited internet fans to the recording. I'm certain that Joni reads many of our posts & only hope that one day soon she joins in the conversation. In my dweems we fwy.... E.T. NP: First Circle, PMB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:45:08 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: The Boho Dance (long) On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:20:14 -0700 (PDT) davidmarine1@webtv.net (David Marine) wrote: > The lines that confuse me most are "And you were > in the parking lot/Subterranean by your own design." I've always seen this song as a reply to someone envious of her success. She saying a part of her wants/wanted to be bohemian but the category doesn't totally fit because she enjoys, has always enjoyed, the finer things in life, the cleaner's press in her jeans and "lace along the seams". She is the "lady in a Paris dress with runs in her nylons" from too much dancing. But she's also saying that she's not attached to any of it ("nothing is capsulized in me") - that she can take it or leave it - that fame and fortune just happened to her kind of like luxury coming "as a guest to take a slave" - whereas this other person is so stuck on being subterranean (underground, alternative, bohemian) - determinedly being an artist in noble poverty - that they couldn't change "even if good fortune allowed". And yet, in spite of being determinedly bohemian, this person is totally envious of Joni's success. I've always wondered who this person is. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:54:17 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Joni's Dream Band On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:45:56 +0100 "Paul Castle" wrote: > Hearing (and really liking) Joni's Magdalene Laundries > recording with The Chieftains has got me thinking which > current band I would most like to hear her playing with live. > At the moment, at least, The Yellowjackets would probably > be my first choice, as long as I'm allowed one extra guest > player --Wayne Shorter, of course. Bob Dylan's band sure was good - Larry Campbell on guitar, Tony Garnier on bass, David Kemper on drums and Bucky Baxter on steel guitar and mandolin. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 04:08:41 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Master List Les shared: << As of today the JMDL is 585 strong, as follows: 439 members of 'joni-digest' (75.0%) 113 members of 'joni' (19.3%) 24 members of 'onlyjoni-digest' (4.1%) 9 members of 'onlyjoni' (1.5%) >> This is interesting info, Les. I'm shocked that only 5.1% of the JMDL are *onlyjoni.* & so as not to violate the NJC rule I must add: Today I played my CD compilation, The Crest Of Joni Mitchell, for my jock buddies into Bob Dylan & Carol King (even though they ridicule me for loving Joni). & they were REALLY impressed, requesting that I make them copies. But am I violating copyright laws if I do? So confused, E.T. NP: The Quest Of Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 01:01:17 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: E.T.'s Crest and Quest-ion Eric wrote: > Today I played my CD compilation, The Crest Of Joni Mitchell, for my > jock buddies into Bob Dylan & Carol King (even though they ridicule me for > loving Joni). & they were REALLY impressed, requesting that I make them > copies. > But am I violating copyright laws if I do? > So confused, > E.T. > NP: The Quest Of Joni Mitchell Only if you start bootlegging the CDs on eBay or elsewhere ;-D Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 05:46:36 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Confessions of a Non-Poster NJC Mark wrote: > > So many of the recent 'why people don't post' messages remind me of > the feelings I had when I first started posting to this list. I went > through the whole gamut. Should I say this? Will I piss somebody > off? Geez, am I ever dull, why would anybody want to read anything I > write? Why doesn't anybody ever respond to anything I write? These > people are all so intelligent and creative and talented. *I* > certainly don't belong here. I thought all of these same things also and especially remember feeling how odd it was to talk to hundreds of people at the same time. The many eloquent posts I've been reading have started me thinking again about the whole process of communicating via this list. What's so unique about it is the lack of instant feedback (especially the nonverbal signals) since it's not face-to-face and so many unknown people are being addressed at one time. Even in letter writing, which this seems similar to, you're writing to one person that you know and can imagine him or her reading the letter, or if it's a business letter, you're writing to a person in a particular position (and then you may be venting but are unlikely to be showing your inner self). Maybe it's closest to writing a column in a newspaper or magazine, such as the "Life in the 30s" column that Anna Quindlan wrote years ago in the NY Times. Once a week she told millions of people what was happening in her life and how she felt about it. I bought the paper every Thursday just for that; such brave honesty is very compelling. That's what I often find here. Artists put themselves "out there" for strangers, but even artists honestly expressing themselves and their view of life still have that protective layer of "art" between them and their audience. It's what critics and fans discuss, and biographers try to get beyond. Joni has said that what her work means to her is not important; what's important is what it means to her fans. So we are led to talk about her work and ourselves and Joni stays safe and unhampered enough to create more art. My realization is that this type of communicating is unlike anything I've experienced before, and it's both wonderfully liberating (enough already with fitting myself to people's responses! That learned-as-a-kid survival tactic, which I thought I'd gotten rid of, has shown itself again and now it really has got to go!) and discomfiting at the same time because it is something so new. It's tough to just throw something out there without expecting any kind of feedback. I think these feelings play into my not posting regularly, although my usual immediate reasons are not enough time to fully respond since I'm not much of a chatterer, although I love reading all the short snappy often-humorous exchanges, and my occasional need to back away from everyone when I'm working intensely on something. Snarky (that's a great word) responses don't bother me when they're on the list; I figure if I can see someone's being a jerk, other people can too, and there's some comfort in that. Of course, if I'm being the jerk, then I'm probably completely blind. But, like most of the people on this list, I do try to be kind, even if I'm not always nice in some people's view. And one other thing I've learned by being on this list for a while is that one post does not fully describe someone, any more than one comment in person would, so, with that in mind, it's easy for me to appreciate every message that's posted. And if everything I write or read is not a gem, so what? There will be other chances. And that's all I have to say at the moment about this new cultural phenomenon. On a personal level, being part of the JMDL is an enjoyable and challenging adventure and every person and every message is part of it. Gee, thanks guys, you're all much appreciated. OK everybody, GROUP HUG!!!! (:-D! Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:58:58 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Lyric Game Mark wrote: >Someone posted this a long time ago, but for newbies, there is a Joni >lyric game you can play: > >http://www.thehub.com.au/~bchudso/jmgame.htm Finally got around to doing this, and it was fun! But why did I get 7 out of 10 on Level 1, 8 out of 10 on Level 2, and 10 out of 10 on Level 3! Strange.....maybe my brain responds more to obscurities than generalities! Quite likely, I suspect! It's ironic, because on Sunday night (Monday was a holiday) some friends and I were playing our usual "name a lyric and guess the song/artist" game while imbibing various different forms of alcohol, and I couldn't think of anything that they would know (this is very common). I could have done lots of Joni, but the chances of them knowing it was her, let alone knowing the song, were about the same as me discovering that I am Joni's second long-lost daughter, ie. zero (my mother swears she gave birth to me, and I believe her, much as I wanted to believe differently as a teenager). Funny thing was, I guessed most of my friend's lyrics. I even guessed correctly that "the moon and stars came out to play" was from the song "Zoom" - to my dying shame! God, the things that are in my head! Anyway, I've seen similar quizes on other lists - but usually much tougher than the one above. I wondered if there would be any interest if I decided to put together a quiz myself? I was thinking of about 50 lyrics - you guess the album/song, with a minimum of two songs from each album (excluding "Hits" and "Misses")? No tangible prizes, just the knowledge that you know more Joni lyrics than anyone else on the JMDL! I'd also put a time limit on the entries, so people can't study too hard! Anyone want to play? Helen NPIMH - Lots of Joni lyrics that I can't identify with a song - am I the best person for this job?! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 07:42:13 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey Eric howls: <> Eric, I'm a couple of days late in responding, but it's only because I've been thinking about TWTLIL...too bad my Mingus is in SC and I'm in NJ, but I can play it my head pretty good. While I wouldn't call it her most interesting, innovative song it might be the most haunting song she's done. The opening lyric about the TV news foreshadows "Three Great Stimulants" I think. And what do you make of "His grandpa loved an empire, his sister loved a thief"...sounds like she's saying how quickly his family tree has deteriorated. I assume the empire line means the grandpa was European, and Lindsey is now running through the hills of Hollywood...is this comparing European nobility and culture with American dark society? <> For me, to be honest, it was the critical drubbing it received as well as the timing. I would have been a college junior at the time, into more accessible music with limited dollars to spend, so when the choice was "Mingus" or "Some Girls", well, the Stones won. I didn't get back to Mingus until the late 80's. And, good as they may be, there are only 6 songs on the record, so it may be perceived by some as a poor "value". But I think her singing is definitely at its peak on "Sweet Sucker Dance" & "Dry Cleaner", the way she navigates those blue notes over a couple of octaves. And again, it's not very accessible...not even the average Joni fan can hum these melodies as compared to "Help Me", "Amelia", etc. (The exceptions would be the ones that made it to S&L) But don't get me wrong - I love it, I'm just trying to throw out some thoughts in response to your question. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:06:29 EDT From: AUDRE60317@aol.com Subject: Day in Garden correction The newspaper is saying it was just a rumor about 10 sceduled events. There will only be 3. Still no names. Keep saying those Joni prayers!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:03:56 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Thomas Ross, Joni and Jazz NJC David said: <> David, thanks for your post - without wanting to sound patronizing, it's VERY cool to be communicating with a professional jazz musician (I'm going to have to re-order your CD, I think - the one I ordered long ago is still on backorder :~( ) And I agree with what you're saying...I don't think anyone ever thought of "Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass" as jazz, but rather as instrumental Pop. But now, I have friends who say they're into "jazz" because they like Dave Koz, Earl Klugh, Spyrogyra, et.al. Nothing against those artists (especially the aforementioned Mr. Klugh who provided the soundtrack for many a makeout session for me in my 20's), but I do think it sells the more adventurous jazz players short when these cats are lumped in with them. You can blame George Benson - after "Breezin'" was a smash, it did for the Pop/Jazz field what "Nevermind" did for the world of Grunge. Bob NPIMH: George Benson, "This Masquerade" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:08:28 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Confessions of a Non-Poster NJC <> This is makin' me hungry for a s'more! :~D Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:30:00 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: J. Collins sings "Chelsea Morning" for Clintons Hello JMDL friends: This caught my eye in today's L.A. Times. Irks me a bit that the Siquomb one wasn't mentioned in the article, but maybe Judy gave her attribution for the song at the event. My best to one and all. - -Julius <> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 06:27:02 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: lyrically challenged wallyK wrote: >>i've been working on just like me, but the lyrics i hear differ from those posted by pat. can you help? where pat wrote "if he'd drop his defenses, you'd see through...", but i hear "he'll drop his defenses, you'll see through..." then the next stanza sounds different to me too: "i've seen him look hungered for someone to tell him you're doing just fine and the songs that he's sung they have loneliness woven between every line with no strings to hold him i guess he could call himself free yes he's free to be empty and lonely and wrong just like me" if there is someone out there that has the tape at hand, could you check out if i'm hearing right or if it's my english? thanks!!!>> wally, someone has told me the D tuning doesn't work so try open G... as for the lyric, all I can say is: although 33 yrs ago, that's the way she taught it to me... (you know... the usual way one person would teach another a song... she showed me the chords... played some of the more difficult changes through for me, *spoke the words* as I wrote them down...) and not only did I immediately work it into my setlist, but she heard me perform it several times after that as well! if the lyric is, in fact, different, (haven't checked it on the tape yet) my only guess is that it was one of those "pushed around my house, pushed around my land" kinda things. there has been recent onlist discussion of how Joni does this sometimes. the 2nd fret tapes were done after I'd already known Joni, and the song, for about a year. I don't recall her changing it that I heard but then maybe I just glossed over... I'm dead sure about: "if he'd drop his defenses, you'd see through..." that's the way she sang it when I heard her... but, the verse you hear works better... could be she changed it. I don't see a heck of a lot of difference with the rest you quoted... and hey! what about that good ol' first verse??? *S* I don't know anywhere you can find that! I also recall that on the tape something was different... a word... poetic license?? hey, I don't think anyone would gripe regardless of *which* version of BYT or BSN one might play, so, hey... whatever smokes yer shorts! pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 06:34:20 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: lyrically challenged wallyK wrote: >>i've been working on just like me, but the lyrics i hear differ from those posted by pat. can you help? where pat wrote "if he'd drop his defenses, you'd see through...", but i hear "he'll drop his defenses, you'll see through..." then the next stanza sounds different to me too: "i've seen him look hungered for someone to tell him you're doing just fine and the songs that he's sung they have loneliness woven between every line with no strings to hold him i guess he could call himself free yes he's free to be empty and lonely and wrong just like me" if there is someone out there that has the tape at hand, could you check out if i'm hearing right or if it's my english? thanks!!!>> wally, someone has told me the D tuning doesn't work so try open G... as for the lyric, all I can say is: although 33 yrs ago, that's the way she taught it to me... (you know... the usual way one person would teach another a song... she showed me the chords... played some of the more difficult changes through for me, *spoke the words* as I wrote them down...) and not only did I immediately work it into my setlist, but she heard me perform it several times after that as well! if the lyric is, in fact, different, (haven't checked it on the tape yet) my only guess is that it was one of those "pushed around my house, pushed around my land" kinda things. there has been recent onlist discussion of how Joni does this sometimes. the 2nd fret tapes were done after I'd already known Joni, and the song, for about a year. I don't recall her changing it that I heard but then maybe I just glossed over... I'm dead sure about: "if he'd drop his defenses, you'd see through..." that's the way she sang it when I heard her... but, the verse you hear works better... could be she changed it. I don't see a heck of a lot of difference with the rest you quoted... and hey! what about that good ol' first verse??? *S* I don't know anywhere you can find that! I also recall that on the tape something was different... a word... poetic license?? hey, I don't think anyone would gripe regardless of *which* version of BYT or BSN one might play, so, hey... whatever smokes yer shorts! pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 09:44:01 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: New Contest? You have to remember that most of her cover art is self portraits and she always considered herself "one of the boys". CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: > > >> > Are you guys trying to say that the above mentioned items are really that??? > catgirl...trying to see beyond the Cactus, duck and peacock...I need a better > imagination...that Herjira thing is way far fetched! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 07:40:45 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Master List As a minority member of the 'onlyjoni' list I pose the questions: What percentage of posts are JC and NJC? Why didn't Les' original post reach me? Was it considered NJC? Eric Taylor wrote: > Les shared: > > << As of today the JMDL is 585 strong, as follows: > > 439 members of 'joni-digest' (75.0%) > 113 members of 'joni' (19.3%) > 24 members of 'onlyjoni-digest' (4.1%) > 9 members of 'onlyjoni' (1.5%) >> > > This is interesting info, Les. > I'm shocked that only 5.1% of the JMDL are *onlyjoni.* > & so as not to violate the NJC rule I must add: > Today I played my CD compilation, The Crest Of Joni Mitchell, for my > jock buddies into Bob Dylan & Carol King (even though they ridicule me for > loving Joni). & they were REALLY impressed, requesting that I make them > copies. > But am I violating copyright laws if I do? > So confused, > E.T. > NP: The Quest Of Joni Mitchell - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:09:33 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Belafonte (and Julie Andrews) Sorry this is a little late but I just returned from a business trip to the city of San Antonio. I feel sort of in a fun mood so Ill put down my take on Harry Belafonte. There are about five albums that go all the way back in my life that I simply wont forget hearing for the first time. One is Harry Belafonte at Carnegie Hall. He broke totally new ground on radio when his 15 minute version of Mathilde (Mah...Till...Da she take me money and run Venezuela) which was so fun and so interesting a performance that it made it to AM but was a great live recording for 1959. The concert also included the first sex education in the form of the song Man Piaba Woman Piaba which causes me to laugh just thinking about it. Great song. Jamaica Farewell is a song I have never stopped doing personally. Harry was born in Harlem NY but when small moved with his mother to Jamaica at about 5. He studied acting in the 1940's and received a Tony Award in 1953 for a performance in John Murray Anderson's Almanac Research. While participating in his early acting career he began a long engagement at Broadway's Royal Roost nightclub doing the musical review of the Music of the West Indies. He was truly one of the first black musician/singers to achieve true crossover appeal in any field of music other than Jazz and big band. Little known is the fact that it was Harry Belafonte who organized the We Are The World recording session. By the way the other albums that I can remember having a profound affect on my early interest in music was (1) The Kingston Trio live at the Hungry I: such energy and fun (2) The Weavers with Pete Seeger (3) Benny Goodman the 1938 Concert at Carnegie Hall : the greatest assemblage of musical genius on one stage at one time including Charlie Christian the black guitarist who invented the elctric guitar by taking a vocal mike and putting it inside his hollow body guitar which showed Les Paul the idea. (4) Prez Prado : Enchanted Village : dont tell me "World Music" was invented in 1985 because this guy was doing it decades ago. marcel deste np. Happy days are here Again ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:49:05 -0400 From: Bry-Bry Subject: living room - nyc (NJC) Greetings, all. Bryan here. I've been searching old digests for info on the Living Room in New York City: weren't there some fairly recent postings to the list about a Joni tribute show there? Anyhoo, some friends of mine suggested it may be a good room for me to try to gig in. Anyone with insight, contacts, what-have-ya, please private e-mail. Thanx. B. (who recently added a cover of 'all i want' to the repetoire. long live the jmdl guitar tab pages!) - -------------------------------------- http://www.bryanthomas.com music@bryanthomas.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:54:11 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: NJC - current art exhibits - somewhat long Heather wrote: <<>> A little bit of synchronicity here. Patrick was down in DC for Memorial Day weekend and we saw a really nice O'Keeffe exhibit of her paintings of objects. So many of those flowers are just stunning. While the traffice could be flowed better, the exhibit was really a treat. The permanent collection at the Phillips Collection is also delightful. The O'Keeffe is on for at least a month yet and I highly recommend it. <<>> We also stumbled across a newly discovered Caravaggio at the National Gallery. It depicts the betrayal of Jesus by Judas. Apparently many copies of this work had been extant for a while, but the original was recently found, if I remember correctly, in an Irish monastery. It's stunning. The highlight of our weekend was the now-closed John Singer Sargent exhibit, which impressed us (and others to whom I spoke) far more than we expected. His painting was often luminous, and his watercolors were especially accomplished and movingly beautiful. I now have a real respect for his work. - --Michael NR: Jane Austen, _Sense and Sensibility_ - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:43:22 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: New contest From: tolstoy@freent.com Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 02:07:31 -0400 The most obvious inclusion of a penis has to be the self-named "Willy" on LOTC...! Deborah the hesitant ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:42:21 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: H.ELP ME.....need an anwer to a tough question!!!! From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:56:18 EDT Hi Gang, Ok cutting to the chase..... I won the high bid on the Joni Mitchell songbook from 1969 for $36.00. I think he is paying shipping. Anyway, he just wrote to me and told me that the first song is missing the first page which is *Both Sides Now*. I looked at my photocpied book ( yes, I photocopied the whole book years ago from a friend-she wouldn't part with her book either) I looked at the book I got and *Both sides now* are on one page front and back which means that it is completely missing from the book. He said to me that I could take off a *FAIR* price from the missing page ( but really missing song) What in your opinion in fair? I think the book loses alot of value not being complete but then I don't know. This is one of my first eBay bids. Should I tell him I will give him $30.00 or what? Please everyone respond to this. Especially the songbook collectors. I really don't know what to do but I want the book. the other one on eBay is already over $40.00 but that one looks in perfect shape! HELP!!! Catgirl...starting to pant and pace wildly...meow!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:03:54 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: RE: NJC - current art exhibits - somewhat long >The highlight of our weekend was the now-closed John Singer Sargent >exhibit, which impressed us (and others to whom I spoke) far >more than we expected. His painting was often luminous, and >his watercolors were especially accomplished and movingly beautiful. > I now have a real respect for his work. > Michael & all - I've heard that the John Singer Sargent exhibit will be at the MFA in Boston next. I can't wait to go! Isn't it wonderful to be able to view all this wonderful artwork? Heather np: Never can say good-bye - Gloria Gaynor > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:07:50 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: The Boho Dance (long) After time and study I will respond at more length, but I want to get a couple of points out there now. My dear friend David Marine returned (yippee!!!) to write: <<>> I interpret "subterranean" as her wordplay on "underground," which is her own little dig at artists who intentionally marginalize themselves, and find virtue in the very act of their self-marginalization. Generally I see this song as less critic vs. artist than W. Village (or Chelsea ;-) ) vs. E. Village (metaphorically speaking). Which isn't to say the entire E. Village, but that element that in the eyes of Joni burrows underground for burrowing's sake rather than seeking honest artistic expression, then chiding Joni and other artists's, some accomplished and some not, commercial success as something negative in itself. Or even more accurately, chiding the commercial success as proof of the negative value of the work. I said I'll write later at more length; I promise to write with more clarity as well!! :-) - --Michael - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:03:21 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: NJC Belafonte (and Julie Andrews) Marcel takes a trip down memory lane: <> The same holds true for me, Marcel. My Mom had a not-so-secret crush on Harry and called him "that good-looking white man dipped in caramel". Anyway, my folks played that 2-record set a lot! Too bad it was reissued on CD as an edited single disc - maybe there's an import or HDCD that features the whole show?? "That's right, the woman is....SMARTER That's right, the woman is.....SMARTER That's right....that's right!!" Great stuff. Bob NPIMH: Harry B.,"Come Back Liza" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 13:14:31 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Master List Les, et al, I own a list and realize that only the owner has access through the listserv and the reasons for that. But there are so many times I need an address and can't get it until they post. If everyone agrees, rather than making it available at any time, forward it once to the list and we could save it for future reference? Just a suggestion. I know other lists do that from time to time. Jerry np: Back to the Garden (taping away!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:22:50 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: The Boho Dance (long) David, thank heavens you chose "Send" over "Delete"!! This article ("post" doesn't seem appropriate) is so meaty it's gonna take me awhile to absorb, dissect, and respond. Coincidentally, I heard DITS on WXPN this morning (and Circle Game last night). This station is really superb! Anyway, my first response... <> I don't understand your use of the word "cliched" here...when I think of a cliched lyric I think of phrases that get used over & over. As far as I know, this is an original lyric and an original concept (God vanishing up the chimney like Santa Claus). If anything, the only redundancy is to herself on C&S referring to "the Lord on Death Row"... Well, that's all for now - I just wanted you to know first & foremost how much I enjoyed the piece. I printed it out and will study it tonight in my hotel (while listening to WXPN) :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:54:55 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: The Boho Dance (long) Marion wrote (about the subterranean person in the parking lot) >I've always wondered who this person is. I suspect it's the same guy who's the "well kept secret of the underground" which must surely be her best put down line ever. She was obviously obsessed with contrasting clothing styles at the time because in the next tune Harry's House we get businessmen mixing formal and casual by wearing button downs. Philip NPIMH Subterranean Homesick Blues ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:13:25 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: H.ELP ME.....need an anwer to a tough question!!!! It's too bad that you can't retract your bid on eBay without somebody getting pissed. Did this guy say that BSN was missing before you bidded, or in its description when bidding was open? If it didn't I don't feel that you should have to honor your bid. I would tell him that since he didn't say it was missing BSN beforehand you shouldn't have to buy it. There is always a MOJM songbook floating around on eBay. You may want to wait until another one surfaces. Mark, who loves those songbooks! NP-Shadows and Light Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua http://jmdl.com/guitar/mark "This conformity factory is now closed!" -Homer Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 19:49:54 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: JONI UNDER THE COVERS Greetings from a lurker! I've been a jmdler for only a month now, and admit I've spent the time just reading and enjoying. I get so little time on the computer, it's all I can do to keep up. I'm up to June 6th now and have enjoyed the postings about lurkers, agreeing with most reasons suggested. Also, I read with longing the report on the Joni Tribute concert by Angela via WallyK. What a great idea...sounded like a great evening. It occurred to me while reading - I wonder what is the worst cover of a Joni song ever? My candidate has to be Nazareth's destruction of 'This Flight tonight'. If there are a lot of suggestions, perhaps tape tree 11 could be the tree from hell! :-) Is this a topic worthy of discussion? One of the problems of being a newcomer is I don't know if something has already been 'talked out' even in the recent past. If anyone feels the urge to castigate me for my ignorance I do a pretty dangerous version of 'The last Time I Saw Richard' in a broken, flat baritone. I could send you a .wav file!! Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 12:50:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - June 10 1997: Joni is inducted into the SONGWRITERS' HALL OF FAME. From Wally's bio: [Today] in New York City, Joni is to be honored with yet another award- The Songwriters Hall of Fame. At the organization's award dinner, Joni is being celebrated in the category of "international" songwriter, and will join Phil Spector, Harlan Howard, Ernesto Lecuona and Jimmie Kennedy as the 28th annual inductees. Due to Joni's near-completed work on her next album, she will most likely not be attending. - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:03:10 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: (NJC now) J. Collins sings 'Chelsea Morning' for Clintons Julius quoted: <<>> The other country being Hungary, for those who were wondering. - --Michael, whose boss was at the event - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:31:44 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: JONI UNDER THE COVERS <> Welcome Martin! <> Of course, like all the "bests" and "worsts", it's all subjective and opinion. Mine is that Roger McGuinn's "Dreamland" is the worst with Cassandra Wilson's "Black Crow" pecking at his heels... <> Martin, if YOU want to know, then it's automatically worthy of discussion...odds are it's been discussed but there's always a new influx of folks who bring their fresh opinions so don't EVER be afraid to come out with it - hopefully the thread we just had enforced that concept! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:35:17 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: RE: HELP ME--Tough Question If the description didn't indicate that BSN was missing from the book, I feel that you have the right to retract your bid if you so choose. I think that E-bay would back you up on this--I'm sure that E-bay wouldn't approve of someone knowingly misleading a bidder. As a collectors item, the value is greatly reduced, but if you still want the book, I would say that a "fair" price is what the two of you can agree upon. Personally, I feel that if you bid $36 thinking that the book was complete, then somewhere between $25 and $30 would be a reasonable price. Hope that this is helpful. Stephen Elliott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:39:36 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... John made my day by saying: ( ... was I glad to read this morning that >SueMac-with-the-Joni-hating-daughter has returned - Sue, you were my >secret hero in the early days of the list ...). and then he wrote this beautiful travelogue about Bohemia and strains of Joni and his Liesbeth (what a beautiful name. I see her with long blonde jonilocks and a peasant blouse. How can you not wear a peasant blouse in Bohemia!!) Thanks, John, for remembering the old days and remembering my stories about my daughter. A couple of weeks ago I was riding in the car with Kate (now 16 and driving) and Whipping Post came on (ALLMANS RULE) and I said, "Oh, Kate, turn it up, I love this song." She turned to me with a cold look in her dark blue eye and said, "Oh, mother, don't you think those guys are just a little too impressed with their own guitar playing. REALLY!" As my jaw hit the shift, I think I drooled slightly trying to maintain my composure. It took me about 4 hours to get my voice back and all I could say was, "too impressed with their guitar playing? The Allman Brothers?" Do you need any more proof that we're dealing with a generation gap here? Anyway, the soundtrack song for me this week is also from Hejira: SONG FOR SHARON - probably the hardest tuning to get sounding right. DACEGA - one slight flat or sharp string and it sounds AWFUL. For proof that this was an annoyance for Joni too in the PRE-VG8 days, there is a tape somewhere of the Save the Whales concert where it takes her about a full 2 or 3 minutes to get the tuning right and at one point she starts singing Stardust to get the strings in synch. Now for a real generation gap question, does anyone know what song I'm talking about? A big hit back in the 40s when Joni was growing up. Take care, Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:53:28 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: JONI UNDER THE COVERS - - I wonder what is the worst cover of a >Joni song ever? My candidate has to be Nazareth's destruction of 'This >Flight tonight'. If there are a lot of suggestions, perhaps tape tree 11 >could be the tree from hell! :-) > >Is this a topic worthy of discussion? One of the problems of being a >newcomer is I don't know if something has already been 'talked out' even >in the recent past. If anyone feels the urge to castigate me for my >ignorance I do a pretty dangerous version of 'The last Time I Saw >Richard' in a broken, flat baritone. I could send you a .wav file!! > Ooooo Martin, your a funny fellow! I got a good laugh out of this one! Sorry I can't contribute a "worst cover" of a Joni song. I happen to be a Joni purest (all right I confess!). Tho I will say our own Bryan Thomas does a verrrrry good cover of "Little Green". I was lucky enough to hear a live version! I hope you also get to hear Marian, Michael Paz, Terry, Claudia and others do some Joni tunes. I like listening to them 'cause it feels like family :-) Having heard our Bryan (at Ashara's) and Sherelle (at Julie's) .... I think these two should get together and do some Joni tunes :-) Post often, Martin. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:56:29 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Strains of Joni Mitchell coming in through ... <> By Hoagy Carmichael, it was THE most recorded song before Paul's "Yesterday"...I love Willie Nelson's version on the album of the same name. I'll bet a buck it shows up on Joni's Standards project... Now, can anybody correctly come up with another Hoagy song that holds the record for the longest song title?? Bob, who also loves the Allmans... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 16:18:52 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Bob and Paul (NJC) Since Dylan and Simon's tour has come up, especially the price of a ticket, I thought I'd report that sales are very poor so far. They've been playing to far less than sold out crowds according to AP. Jerry sp: Back to the Garden ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:05:46 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Songlynx Online Database Since this may be of interest to the musicians, performers and songwriters on the list, in possibly Joni-connected ways, I have not marked it NJC. You can check it out at http://www.songlynx.com/frameset.html Kakki The Songlynx Database Songlynx is a comprehensive on-line music database through which music users will have the ability to search for a wide range of available songs and master recordings based upon a variety of criteria. This database system can be accessed via the Internet, and is continuing to be refined and expanded, both in its data resources and its functionality. The music searches which are available on the Songlynx system have been organized by song characteristics which are both objective and subjective in nature, each to varying degrees. The objective portions include categories which have been established through general standards and practices in the music industry (such as Pop, Country, R & B, etc.), keyword groups (based upon key words in the title), composers, artists, and chart hit information. See database detail for more information. Song characteristics which are more subjective in nature have been assigned based upon elements which contribute to the character of the composition, such as tempo, subject matter, and instrumentation. These category, keyword, and character searches are song-based, and each song assumes additional classifications based upon the master recordings with which it is associated. For example, a 1930's standard, such as "Georgia On My Mind," may be re-interpreted at a later time by an artist in the 60's, such as Ray Charles. A song such as this would therefore be assigned the classification of 1930's and 1960's hit title, as well as an R & B category and Soul characterization, based upon the Ray Charles interpretation. This particular title would also be assigned under the keyword group "Songs About Places"- another criteria by which a music user can search. The Music Database Songlynx provides music users a Research Tool that allows music users to search for music based on a variety of criteria, such as keywords, keyword groups, decades, genres, and chart hit information. The Online Clearance System Songlynx will also contain an integrated online clearance system called Medialynx through which music uses can gather copyright information, prepare accurate cue sheets, and request clearances for the use of music in their projects -- all with the push of a button. The clearance requests can be sent either to the publishers directly, or to any of the clearance companies they prefer who are "Songlynx- enabled." The Songwriter's Forum Soon to be added to Songlynx will be an on-line chat, where songwriters like Jimmy Webb, Stephen Schwartz and Stephen Bishop will be hosting live forums for visitors wherein the art and the business of songwriting can be discussed at length. Our goal is to expand this site to include a variety of methods through which songwriters can promote themselves and their music to producers and other music users on a worldwide basis. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #251 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?