From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #246 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, June 7 1999 Volume 04 : Number 246 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- luck & Album covers ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: radio station LJC [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: All good things joni come to those who wait [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Why so many don't post? (NJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] FW: re: bittersweet week NJC ["Takats, Angela" ] Case Of You Question- Stop the Presses [TerryM2442@aol.com] This Is Not Your Mother's Joni ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: FW: re: bittersweet week NJC [Ashara@aol.com] Re: luck & Album covers [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni's master tapes safe ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: Case Of You Question- Stop the Presses [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Case Of You Question- Stop the Presses [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni's master tapes safe [CaTGirl627@aol.com] CD'rs (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: Case Of You Question- Stop the Presses [Janet Hess Subject: luck & Album covers Congratulations on your songbook finds, love a bargain! Looks like it really was a "joni" luck week. I agree that STAS is the most beautiful album cover - I love the colours and the movement in it, and the tricky way joni has added words into the picture. But I must say that my favourite album cover would have to be Clouds....she's just beautiful, isn't she, and she does those self portraits so well. I love Hejira too - she's gorgeous! (My boyfriend says my love for joni is rather unhealthy?? oh well) Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:45:56 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: radio station LJC In a message dated 6/6/99 6:14:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Slarty writes: << Just found a site where you can put together your own radio station. >> What a gem of a site! I'm listening to Crazy Cries right now! This is great, Ken. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:48:41 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: All good things joni come to those who wait In a message dated 6/6/99 5:12:51 PM Central Daylight Time, ATAKATS@ninenet.com.au writes: << the sad thing about our wonderful "find" was that it made me wonder why someone would throw out so much stuff, along side the records were suit cases full of photos of family, graduation ceremonies, trips around the world....who's belongings were these, did they die? was there a terrible divorce...can't help but wonder. >> Ange, first I'm SOOO glad you got to see the Joni-show and I loved your write-up. Second, I felt led to respond to your observation about the stuff on the curb. When my Mom died 10 years ago, my sister & I gathered up all her clothing and other personal effects that we didn't want and took them to the Salvation Army - it just so happened in Raleigh a hurricane had touched down and lots of people were without, so our donation was very timely. As my Mom (who we affectionately called "Saint Shirley") was very altruistic, we felt like she was smiling down on our efforts. Then came the tough stuff - I think Mom saved every drawing, every Mother's Day card, every silly certificate that we 3 kids ever got or gave. It was just too hard for Dad to have all that around anymore, he pulled some, we each pulled some, and we boxed the rest and put it on the curb. The next day, I just happened to be outside when the trash truck came by, picked up those boxes of her greatest lifetime treasures, and threw in the back like it was nothing - that moment remains the saddest thing I've ever experienced. And maybe it helps to answer your question...you know, every picture has its shadows, and it has some source of light...so enjoy those records, they were probably someone's greatest treasures, and now they get to be yours. Bob NP: "River" Live from >^..^< PS - Catgirl, I'm glad you got your songbooks! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:52:22 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Why so many don't post? (NJC) In a message dated 6/6/99 3:11:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << This just proves that we are not good judges of ourselves! I have always thought of you as an intellectual musician! And one who shares articulately. >> Ditto! Marian, your last post describing the Dylan-Fest held me spellbound. I always look forward to reading your posts. Actually, I enjoy reading most everything here! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:59:36 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: FW: re: bittersweet week NJC > Michael, I am so sorry to hear about the death of your close family > friend...you really aren't having a good time at the moment, are you. But > have faith, I know this isn't too reassuring, but I really believe that > everything happens for a reason. > The other day my friend was told that her friend's baby had died. My > friend and her husband, cancelled their weekend away - to spend time with > the grieving mother. My friends husband had planned to fly his old > airplane at an airshow...but someone else took it instead. Tragically, the > plane crashed, my friend's husband couldn't believe it, he would have been > up in it, had it not been for this tragic death of this baby.....I know > this is a sad story, but as I said, things seem to happen for a reason. > And it sounds like your priest friend led a full and generous life > :) Ange ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:09:39 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Case Of You Question- Stop the Presses I'm getting brave now that so many of you have been supportive during my Joni Soul Bearing Episode. Here's my question- I attend a professional conference every year and always partake in the talent show, offering up a song or two of Joni- on piano, since I'm too scared to bring my guitar to these things. Last year I played For Free and Willy. I've been dying to play A Case of You (on piano, yes it can work) but need to know something. Do you lyric experts think that Joni's reference to drinking a "case of you" goes beyond the surface of drinking up true love? I mean, er, how do I say this...HELP ME..umm...is she talking about some graphic sex here? I don't want to embarrass the hell out of myself in front of my colleagues. Be gently now. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:15:55 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: This Is Not Your Mother's Joni RMuRocks@aol.com shared BMG's latest review: "On the heels of her Grammy-winning "Turbulent Indigo", Joni Mitchell has once again raised the bar for emotional, intelligent songwriting. "Taming The Tiger" explores her soul's atmospheric range. Mitchell's gently smokey voice, though still limber, smolders along the blue neck of her guitar in Love Puts On a New Face. The textured Harlem in Havana grooves with stifled Latin percussive urges. And on the simple, romantic The Crazy Cries of Love, Joni shimmies her magnificent voice into hidden corners of the sonic spectrum. This is not your mother's Joni, but it wouldn't be like this quixotic innovator to stand still for long - Reviewed by Harris Poor" Thank you for sharing this Bob! What a fantastic review!! "This is not your mother's Joni" is so funny & true. Harris Poor really gets it.... E.T. NP: The Quest Of Joni (a CD I burned last night: Paprika Plains Otis & Marlena Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Amelia The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey In France They Kiss on Main Street (live) Love Passion Play Slouching Towards Bethlehem Borderline Stay In Touch Tiger Bones) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:18:38 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: FW: re: bittersweet week NJC Ange beautifully wrote to Michael: << But have faith, I know this isn't too reassuring, but I really believe that everything happens for a reason. >> At the risk of being self-indulgent, many of you know I am the editor/publisher of a newsletter called The Light Network. I write the first page editorial of each issue, which is usually an inspirational piece related to something that is going on in my life at that time. Just a short while ago, I finished the most recent issue, and my editorial relates exactly to this theme. If you are interested in reading more, the address is: The Light Network Home Page but I've included the editorial here. CHALLENGES Sometimes life is tough. Just really, really tough. I try to have a positive view of things, knowing there is a reason for everything. I know that learning lessons accompany every challenge that comes our way. But sometimes those challenges seem like a lot to bear, and it’s hard to remember about lessons, and even harder to stay positive. These past several months have been a challenging time for me. I’ve had some parenting challenges, and a very dear friend passed on which left me devastated. Both circumstances hit me square in the face, unexpectedly. When a child is born and you look into their eyes for the first time, you see the future wrapped in gold and silver. You see all the grand possibilities that life has to offer them. You see hope, trust, faith and joy. Most of all, you feel the most profound love you have ever felt in your life. You now, finally, understand unconditional love. You understand what it is to give wholly of yourself to another person. You understand the dance of the Universe. What you don’t think about in that moment, is the way your heart stops when they take their first step, when they scrape their knee in a childhood fall, or during your first trip to the emergency room. You don’t think about staying up half the night worrying, or if the car they are in will arrive home safely. You certainly don’t think about drugs, AIDS, or teenage pregnancy. Not in a million years do you expect your heart to constrict so tightly you just know it will break in two when your child’s pain becomes your own. Then they grow up. In what seems like minutes, they become toddlers, school age children, and finally, young men and women making decisions on their own. For me, the hardest part of parenting is the letting go, letting them fall, leaving them to make their own mistakes in life, and praying they will come through to the other side stronger, wiser, and with a greater sense of self. I sometimes find myself asking the question “why” to no one in particular. “Why does life have to be so difficult at times? Why do these trials of life have to hurt so? Why did Sandie have to leave this world so soon?” I wasn’t ready. I simply was not ready to let her go. I miss her smile, her support, and her wonderful heart. I learned much from my friendship with Sandie, and learned much from the letting go. In retrospect, I can look back on these challenges of the past few months and know in my heart that there is a purpose to the struggle. The answer lies in a very simple story that I came across while reading Judy Collin’s first biography, “Trust Your Heart.” “A scientist was watching a monarch butterfly emerge from its cocoon. It was such a long struggle, the creature fought on and on with the rough material of the cocoon- tearing, pulling, and struggling, fighting to get out. “If I only snip this little bit at the top, I could help this creature,” he said to himself. And he reached in with his scissors and cut away the last piece of the cocoon. The monarch went on for a few more moments, but seemed to grow weaker, and finally, his wings still partly folded, he fell back onto the table, dead. The scientist realized he had killed the butterfly by trying to make things easier. Each push by the struggling insect forces lifeblood into those glorious wings, and their beauty in flight comes only after the fight to emerge from the cocoon is entirely finished.” Sometimes we need the struggles and challenges in our life to develop our “lifeblood,” and to emerge with more self-knowledge than before. May you see the value in your challenges, and may they be ones of strength, learning, and transformation. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:25:40 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: luck & Album covers In a message dated 6/6/1999 10:51:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ATAKATS@ninenet.com.au writes: << Congratulations on your songbook finds, love a bargain! Looks like it really was a "joni" luck week. I agree that STAS is the most beautiful album cover - I love the colours and the movement in it, and the tricky way joni has added words into the picture. But I must say that my favourite album cover would have to be Clouds....she's just beautiful, isn't she, and she does those self portraits so well. I love Hejira too - she's gorgeous! (My boyfriend says my love for joni is rather unhealthy?? oh well) Ange Sydney >> You mean to tell me that putting a women on a pedstal is unhealthy? YIKES, since I was 13 I guess I have been unhealthy and it is getting worse!!! Now that I am finding all these rare finds am on on a Joni HIGH!!! WHOO-HOOO! Catigirl NP: My old man from James and Joni 1970 BBC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:30:38 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Joni's master tapes safe Randy Remote wrote: << The master tapes to all of Joni's pre '90's albums were recorded on defective tape, and were in danger of deteriorating beyond usability, but apparently have been saved. The problem affects MOST of the recorded popular music of that period, due to a defective binder formula used by Ampex, by far the most widely used brand of recording tape at that time.... >> This is scary! Leonardo had the same problem with his paint mix.... I've heard that unless you buy gold CDs they will deteriorate in 10 years. Is this a capitalist conspiracy or what? E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:30:59 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Case Of You Question- Stop the Presses In a message dated 99-06-06 23:13:46 EDT, TerryM2442@AOL.COM writes: > Do you lyric experts think that Joni's reference to drinking >a "case of you" goes beyond the surface of drinking up true love? I mean, er, > >how do I say this...HELP ME..umm...is she talking about some graphic sex >here? I don't want to embarrass the hell out of myself in front of my >colleagues. > > Surely it could, it could - almost anyone given a bit of effort can fashion a cigar out of a puddle of water. (I think of my brother Leo who could look at Spaghetti-O's and point out something graphic...). This song is personally special to me and her rendition of it on the Joni/James tapes is so incredible. I see it as far more sensual and emotionally connecting than graphic sex. Ever touch a lover and the touch is not enough? You feel that connection pouring in through your pores and your heart and soul is drinking it up. The flow of connection becomes almost ceremonial, the wine becomes holy. No amount is too much. No gag factor there! Just a Wow! at the power and an awe at its stength. MG np: Joni/James concert: "A Case of You" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:41:30 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Case Of You Question- Stop the Presses In a message dated 6/6/1999 11:13:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, TerryM2442@AOL.COM writes: << I've been dying to play A Case of You (on piano, yes it can work) but need to know something. Do you lyric experts think that Joni's reference to drinking a "case of you" goes beyond the surface of drinking up true love? I mean, er, how do I say this...HELP ME..umm...is she talking about some graphic sex here? I don't want to embarrass the hell out of myself in front of my colleagues. Be gently now. Terry >> I say PLAY YOUR HEART OUT BABY!!!! I think it will sound wonderful and I would not feel embarressed in the least..of course that is just my opinion and I could be wrong ;) Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:54:43 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's master tapes safe In a message dated 6/6/1999 11:32:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ewwtaylor@adelphia.net writes: << << The master tapes to all of Joni's pre '90's albums were recorded on defective tape, and were in danger of deteriorating beyond usability, but apparently have been saved. The problem affects MOST of the recorded popular music of that period, due to a defective binder formula used by Ampex, by far the most widely used brand of recording tape at that time.... >> This is scary! Leonardo had the same problem with his paint mix.... I've heard that unless you buy gold CDs they will deteriorate in 10 years. Is this a capitalist conspiracy or what? E.T. >> Tell me about it. I originally bought all these cheap Cd's thinking they are all the same. Well these cheap ones do not work in my CD player in my car. They work in my Cd player at home. I was told (listen up gang interesting info) that certain CD-R's work only in high end CD players or real cheap ones. The mid range CD players won't play cheap CD-r's. I also heard that a certain chemical called Phytalo-cyanine which is usaully in the gold (ask when you buy ask if it is this or just cyanine) will last forever. The other ones only last roughly 10 years. So if you are going through the trouble of making stuff into Cd's it would be wise to buy high quality Cd-R's for archive material and then cheap-o ones for everyday recordings. Of course this is just my opinion, I may be wrong. Catgirl...turning into Cd-women ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 21:06:59 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: CD'rs (NJC) CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: > I also heard that a certain chemical called Phytalo-cyanine which is > usaully in the gold (ask when you buy ask if it is this or just cyanine) will > last forever. The other ones only last roughly 10 years. Little known, but true. Actually, I have heard 5 years. The phytalocyanine (gold) ones have a life expectancy of 100 years. The other kind break down from daylight. Leave one in the sun and it's toast. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 00:08:17 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: Case Of You Question- Stop the Presses I agree that drinking up "a case of you" can extend in all sorts of directions. One night a few years back I found myself telling a friend that I thought this was one of Joni's most spiritual songs. At the time, I pointed to the tradition in Sufi poetry and mystical writings to refer to intoxication with God and God's love as just that: intoxication. I can drink a case of you and still be on my feet: Kabir, maybe? :) At 11:09 PM 6/6/1999 EDT, TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: Do you lyric experts think that Joni's reference to drinking >a "case of you" goes beyond the surface of drinking up true love? I mean, er, >how do I say this...HELP ME..umm...is she talking about some graphic sex >here? I don't want to embarrass the hell out of myself in front of my >colleagues. > >Be gently now. >Terry > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 00:50:16 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Devil's chord and devil's interval (JC added) In a message dated 6/6/99 5:22:07 PM, guitarzan@saber.net wrote: >While the 'home' chord in Purple Haze is, indeed an E7+9, the >FIRST chord in the song-the intro-is 'stacked tritones': > Bb-E-Bb-E That is correct. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:05:16 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Positively asking for it! (NJC) On Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:30:47 +0100 "Paul Castle" wrote: > I don't know whether others have noticed a strange > phenomenon - that once you get back with your coffee > and read what you've just sent, somehow the tone and > emphasis of what you thought you had said has > mysteriously changed - and suddenly there are all these > spelling mistakes and grammatical errors - where did they > come from?!? This happens to me all the time! > I recently had a chastening experience. Reading someone > claim on a Folk Radio DJ discussion list that Dylan was, in > fact, writing about fellow songwriter, Phil Ochs, in his song > 'Positively 4th Street' (the one that starts "You've got a lot of > nerve to say you are my friend, when I was down you just > stood there grinning"), I thought I would pose the question to > HWY61 - surely the experts of all things Bob (as JMDL is > to Joni) would know. The HWY61 list is not a place where I would even dare to say, at least not directly, how much I love Bob Dylan's music. People are always saying how much they love Joni in JMDL. It seems like there are a lot of people in HWY61 who are there just for concert tickets and bootlegs - some of the posts I've seen in reply to people who were brave enough to say something sensitive have been quite aggressive - like the worst of JMDL flame wars. > The very next day there were three separate replies. The > first just said brashly "No". The second, with equal conviction, > just said "Yes" and the third (the clincher) just said "Maybe". > Laughing out loud at the third, I immediately rattled off a 'thank > you' letter to the list saying what a wonderfully helpful and useful > resource they had turned out to be I saw this message! I thought it was really funny!!! > ----BIG mistake!! LESSON 1: Frivolous sarcasm and cynicism > are not funny in e-mails - especially to strangers wearing anorak's > with Tarantulas in their pockets. ROTFL!!! > The next day this came back to me - > "...but allll the people can't be alll right ALLLL o' the time > Do you take me for such a fool > To think I'd make contact > With the one who tries to hide > What he don't know to begin wiiiiiith !!!!???!!!!" > I have a sneaking suspicion that Bob himself lurks on HWY61 > and when he's feeling particularly bratty, just lets one go!! That thought never occurred to me! Wouldn't that be funny! Anyway, it's kind of comforting to know that there's another Joni fan on the HWY61 list! Thanks for telling this story! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:44:10 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Why so many don't post? (NJC) On Sunday, June 06, 1999 9:17 PM wrote: > The reason I don't write much in response to JC are 1. I know nothing > about music, 2. dissectic and critic-ing lyrics is not my forte. When i > read what others write regarding a lyric or guitar stuff, I know I am out > of my depth. Although when it comes to discussing lyrics, i have never > been much into that anyway-either they make sense to me or they don't. I > am not into guessing what the writer actually meant. A lot of HOSL is > meaningless to me but I love the album. > I always get so much out of your contributions to JMDL, colin - and often agree with the things you say. You always speak from your heart. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #246 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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