From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #239 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, June 2 1999 Volume 04 : Number 239 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Welcome back, Sue! [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Joni - Paul Simon - World Music ["Kakki" ] El Condor Pasa NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Album Covers (Ent. Wkly) ["Eric Taylor" ] MOJO news [Thomas Ross ] Re: just like her [Howard Wright ] Re: just like her ["P. Henry" ] RE: just like her ["P. Henry" ] SV: Euegene Ruffolo ["Peter Holmstedt" ] HOSL demo tape? [Deb Messling ] Re: Joni - Paul Simon - World Music [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Dan Fogelberg's Netherlands NJC [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Joni - Paul Simon - World Music [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: just like her ["P. Henry" ] Re: intro/misunderstood lyrics [Susan McNamara ] Re: Album Covers (Ent. Wkly) [Brian Gross ] Brazilian? (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Song For Sharon [MHart16164@aol.com] Re: Dan Fogelberg's Netherlands [Heather Galli ] Both Sides Now [Susan McNamara ] Eric Anderson [Steve Dulson ] Song for Sharon--Michael's loss [vsuzym ] Re: Song for Sharon--Michael's loss [DreamZvil@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V4 #238 [PJTJOY@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V4 #238 [PJTJOY@aol.com] RE: just like her njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Album Covers (Ent Wkly) NJC [Bounced Message ] Eric Anderson [Bounced Message ] Re: Dan Fogelberg's Netherlands NJC [Bounced Message ] Eric Anderson [Steve Dulson ] Re: Song For SharonNJC [catman ] Today in Joni History - June 3 [Today in Joni History ] Re: Song For SharonNJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Today in Joni History - June 3 [Don Rowe ] Re: Album Covers (Ent. Wkly) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Dan Fogelberg's Netherlands NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: reading music NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: NJC - Conga player in Winnipeg [CaTGirl627@aol.com] NJC--ANTI FLAG-BURNING AMENDMENT TO CONSTITUTION PASSES HOUSE! --NJC [al_] Re: June MOJO Magazine- Joni 70s live recording pegged fo... [Bob.Muller/] Andrew Wyeth NJC [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] Re: Song For SharonNJC [catman ] Re: Ent. Weekly Discrepancy!? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: NJC--ANTI FLAG-BURNING AMENDMENT TO CONSTITUTION PASSES HOUSE! --NJC [catman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:01:32 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Welcome back, Sue! Glad to have you back, Sue! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 23:44:03 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni - Paul Simon - World Music Paul wrote: > Paul Simon wins this one. > His self-titled debut solo album with the Reggae-influenced "Mother and > Child Reunion" as well as the Latin-influenced "Me and Julio Down by the > Schoolyard" was released in 1972 and is recognized as being "surely one of > the first American pop flirtations with Jamaican music," according to the > album notes at CDNow. > But don't forget that Simon & Garfunkle's last album, "Bridge Over > Troubled Water," was released in 1969 with the Brazilian-influenced song "El > Condor Pasa (If I Could)." > Simon was well-ahead of Joni in the explorations of music from other > cultures, as were Cream drummer Ginger Baker and others on a less-successful > level. Good catch, Paul, on El Condor Pasa. My bible on Brazilian music cites to all of Simon's forays into world music and he is mentioned six times in the book in comparison to only two mentions of Joni. Joni and Paul Simon both used Airto Moreira - on Joni's "Dreamland" and Simon's "Me and Julio Down By The Schoolyard", but Simon was first in 1972. Simon also worked with Milton Nascimento and Olodum on "Rhythm of the Saints". This has been a day of unending coincidences for me and there is yet another with this thread. I received a copy of the (slowly circulating) Joni demo tape for "Hissing of Summer Lawns" tonight and am presently listening to an alternative cut of "Dreamland" on it. I wonder if this means she recorded the song as early as 1975 even though it did not show up on an album until 1978 with DJRD. By the way, the demo tape is a real revelation. A totally alternative version of HOSL - Joni sounds younger, more earnest and more like the early era vs. jazz era Joni. The alternative "Dreamland" is fantastic - very much more Brazilian - whistles and all. Lindsay - as for which Wyeth painted Helga, I can't get to my art books, they hold up my computer monitor ;-D - but I recall it was Andrew - she was his long time housekeeper and mistress. Kakki NP: Alternative Joni HOSL - Harry's House ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 04:02:42 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: El Condor Pasa NJC Paul adviced: > But don't forget that Simon & Garfunkle's last album, "Bridge Over >Troubled Water," was released in 1969 with the Brazilian-influenced song "El >Condor Pasa (If I Could)." Actually, El Condor Pasa is based on an Andean folk tune that Mr. Simon "borrowed" for his song. As a matter of fact, condors could never survive the Brazilian heat: they nest in small caves in the Andes heights. There are also condors in California, I hear. As to the original song on which Simon's melody was based, my guess is that it is from either north-western Argentina or southern Bolivia. WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 03:11:39 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Album Covers (Ent. Wkly) MGVal@aol.com needs a magnifying glass: << I'm looking, I'm looking. The most I'm seeing is the lower GI tract on the female character who is on the right, seemingly tooting on a horn.. The male, (on the left), DOES have one of those "cat-ate-the-canary," (literally?!?!), looks, but appears to be jewel-less from my POV. And believe me, I tried! >> It's much easier to see on the album cover. That's the one thing I hate about CDs.... Actually, now that you point it out, the person on the left (who I thought might be Joni) appears to have a penis too! It's also flesh-colored on a background of green. But the guy on the right is definately well-hung. There is no mistaking those turquoise pubes & you can clearly make out the shaft, head, slit & left nut.... At least I know a wrist when I see one! E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 03:12:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Ross Subject: MOJO news this could be cool but "in an off-the-wall way" and the sulky concert attitude give me pause. On the other hand the Steely Dan. . .vowt! TR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:08:01 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: Re: just like her It's been a long time, but I'm so happy to see this .sig file appearing on our list again! ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell Welcome back to the list Sue! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 02:23:14 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: just like her wow pearl, what a great sharing! it must've been awesome when you finally realized. yes, I'm well aware of the recording of 'Just Like Me' on the second fret tape, however, the copy I have only has the last two verses. also, although there are many of Joni's rarities on the jmdl guitar sites, this one is not (yet) among them and I just wanted to make it available... so go ahead and try it! *S* pat NP: Winter Lady - -- On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:17:09 WirlyPearl wrote: >Hi Pat, > >I haven't tried to play the song Just Like Me, but it was >on one of the earlier tape trees, probably from the 1967 > Second Fret / Philadelphia radio shows. Because of that, >many of us on the list are probably familiar with the song. >I did manage to learn most >of the words to sing along with it. It has a very upbeat >lilt to it. Another of my unrecorded favorites of Joni's >is Winter Lady. When I first learned how to play guitar >when I was in high school, one of the books >my teacher used was The Music of Joni Mitchell songbook, > which had many of her unrecorded songs in it. > When I heard Winter Lady >on the tape tree, I couldn't for the life of me figure out how >I knew most of the words upon first hearing it. I even asked >the list if anyone like Tom Rush or Gordon Lightfoot had >ever recorded it. It was driving me crazy. >I finally figured out that the reason I was >so familiar with it was because I had learned how to play >it, and some of the others with the little check marks next >to them, back in around 1968. I love those >early songs. They had such strong, beautiful melodies. >Hearing her actually sing them on the tapes was a revelation. >Thanks for sharing so much about your >experiences with Joni. They are wonderful. > >Pearl > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 02:31:54 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: just like her WallyK wrote: "...I'm planning to play it at Ashara's." thank you wally... I'm honored pat NP: *great big satisfied ear-ear smile* Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:43:11 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: SV: Euegene Ruffolo > From: Jenaya Dawe > I just recieved Euguene Ruffollo's disc "Fool For Every Season" from > songs.com today, and it is wonderful!! He sounds a lot like JT, and his > lyrics are wonderful. I'm tellin ya, check this guy out!! > http://www.songs.com/ruffolo So true, so true..... His new album is absolutely amazing! If you're into Joni, James Taylor, Jackson Browne, Marc Cohn and other great singer/songwriters, you'll LOVE his album! Take care, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 05:57:23 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: HOSL demo tape? Wow! Is there a chance this demo tape could circulate more rapidly, via a tape tree? >I received a copy of the (slowly circulating) Joni demo >tape for "Hissing of Summer Lawns" tonight Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:06:17 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni - Paul Simon - World Music Where does Harry Belafonte fit in. He practically invented the blending of pop and Carribean music in the late 50's. he was huge on Broadway and made a number of albums before doing movies. Or is the question only involving rock or folk rock stars who tried world music. Ry Cooder today as well as David Byrne are HUGE world beat and music afficionados. marcel deste. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:29:43 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Dan Fogelberg's Netherlands NJC In a message dated 6/2/99 7:31:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << He's not Joni's caliber, but way better than I could do! >> What struck me was their similarity in singing style. For some reason, I didn't pick up on that when I listened to him way back when. Maybe it's only evident on this album, as I don't have anything else of his. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:42:10 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni - Paul Simon - World Music In a message dated 6/2/99 8:10:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@AOL.COM writes: > Where does Harry Belafonte fit in. He practically invented the blending of > pop and Carribean music in the late 50's. he was huge on Broadway and made a > > number of albums before doing movies. Or is the question only involving rock > > or folk rock stars who tried world music. Ry Cooder today as well as David > Byrne are HUGE world beat and music afficionados. marcel deste. > > All good points, in my humble opinion, however, no one has done more to bring world music to the fore of western civilization than Peter Gabriel (and to a lesser extent, in my opinion, Paul Simon). If we are talking the "pioneering" of it by pop/rock, people, then Joni certainty deserves to be recognized, though I think she used these techniques as sort of "accessories" in my opinion, and to very great effect. Still, what I find admirable about Peter Gabriel is his sincerety and commitment to exposing world music and art to the rest of us through his involvement in WOMAD and his own record label REALWORLD. I'm not as familiar with David Byrne's work except for his Brasil Classics compilation, for which I am very grateful, as it exposed me to some of the best Brasilian singer/songwriters and protest singers, most of whom I would otherwise not have had exposure to. If Peter Gabriel and Paul Simon are heralded more than Joni in this area, I think they are certainty deserving in this regard. Just my opinion. Take care, Gina NP: Lead Balloon - this one is actually growing on me! My favorite line? An angry man is an angry man An angry woman: biiiiitch!! (its cleverness makes me crack up) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 05:56:19 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: just like her well, gang, I hope nobody minds my reposting this yet again but, even though I've posted it twice already, once without and once with the chords, several people have written me asking me to send it to them so here ya goone more time, just in case! *S* (btw, it's pretty easy to play... *S*) this is a real find... I don't think you can find this song anywhere! Joni told me she wrote it about Stephen Stills. "ok, maybe you don't call it 'open D'... the only tunings I ever knew I learned from Joni... it is DADGBD. it's pretty simple: (some the same as 'circle game' but that is played in G tuning) the primary chord, of course, is just to play all strings open and that acts as your 'drone'... the second chord is a C shape without the ring finger on the first fret... the third chord is the same shape but on the third fret and the refrain chord ob the chorus is a straight bar (G?) on the fifth fret and, except for walking the bass A string, 0245, on the chorus that's all the chords, which, for tab purposes, we shall call 0, 1, 3 & 5 respectively and 0245 for the walk. btw, if you've heard it on the '2nd fret' tapes the first verse is missing... here's the complete song: JUST LIKE ME by: Joni Mitchell (as taught to Pat Boland) 0 3 1 0 he's so independent, he acts like he couldn't care less (hammer)01010 for us all 0 3 he's someone's descendent, their child, though he'll 1 0 (hammer)01010 never acknowledge their call 1 3 1 he's afraid to feel loved, yet I know he's afraid not to 0...1 be 0 1 and he'll laugh and he'll cry, and someday he'll die, 0......1.....0 just like me cho: 0245-5 3..1 0 1 0 just like me, he's settling a score with a world 1 3-1 that wants a reason every time you turn around 0245-5 3..1 0 1 0 just like me, he's lookin' for a door standing open, 1 saying "welcome, come and lay your troubles down", just 0..1..0-1-0 like me if he'd drop his defenses, you'd see through the stone to the heart of the man but the moment he senses you've seen him he'll leave you, as fast as he can he'll return to his shadows where no one can look in and see and he'll wake in the night and cry like a child just like me. cho. well, I've seen him looking for someone to tell him, "you're doin' just fine." and the songs that he sings, they have loneliness woven between every line there are no strings to hold him I guess you could call him so free yes, he's free to be lonely and empty and lost just like me cho. 0 1.......0..1..0-1-0 repeat: just like me... I know the spacing probably won't hold up in email format but I hope that gives you the idea..." Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:22:07 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: intro/misunderstood lyrics "Your notches liberation doll" is the correct lyric. This is a song about a drunken brawl between two lovers. The line before it reads: A room full of glasses and then he says to her ... "Your notches -- liberation doll" notches referring to the marks on a gunslinger's Colt 45 from all the men he's killed. Translation: Don't tell me I'm drunk, bitch -- those empty glasses are yours, not mine!! And don't give me any of that women's lib crap!! Ahh, memories!! :-) >Re the "Don't interrupt..." lyric, I think it's conceivable that she >PRONOUNCED what you heard, but in that event, it's still puzzling.... altho' >no less puzzling than the words in the COMPLETE POEMS & LYRICS volume: "Your >notches liberation doll." >It's more than possible that this volume was not proofed visually by JM >herself and indeed the book discreetly omits any reference to JM's having a >role in its preparation. LAHM ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 06:18:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Album Covers (Ent. Wkly) I wrote: > ><< But E.T., where is the penis on the cover of Mingus ?? then E.T. wrote: > > It's SO blatant. Look at the guy on the right playing a horn. His > >flesh-colored lap prominently displays his family jewels. > then Pat O'Connor wrote: > It's to the left of the guy (George Jetson?) who is playing the large(bass?) > balalaika. Actually, in looking at the artwork on the cd booklet (sorry, I never bought this one on vinyl) under my magnifier, I can see what looks like *one* family jewel, along with a not-so-regal scepter, just hanging around :-) Brian npimh :I left my ... in SF === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:08:48 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Brazilian? (NJC) Paul I wrote: >But don't forget that Simon & Garfunkle's last album, "Bridge Over >Troubled Water," was released in 1969 with the Brazilian-influenced song "El >Condor Pasa (If I Could)." Maybe Peruvian? ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:16:43 EDT From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: Song For Sharon Suicide has, unfortunately, touched many of our lives. My son's best friend last year and a good friend of mine in college. You're very right that something just snaps. More so, I think the total despair that a person feels. Knowing someone or being close to someone who has done that can make a person wonder "what could I have done? A talk, a comforting word." The most depressing part is the loss of control and the feeling of futility. Take heart Michael. Torment can be shared. We're all subject to it and I don't believe that our friends that left will be punished for it. They were already punished in their own pains. Focus on the joy, remember the good. Never forget the music. My grandma sent me a poem when I was about 11. She was an alcoholic and full of cancer. It went something like... God didn't promise there'd never be rain and He didn't promise there'd never be pain but can you remember a dark rainy sky that didn't fade when the clouds had passed by Funny, I never remember her being down. Michele ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:59:31 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Dan Fogelberg's Netherlands > E.T. > NP: Twin Sons Of Different Mothers This is my favorite by Dan Fogelberg (with Tim Wiesberg(sp)). I have seen him in concert and he is very good. I must agree, though, Joni never grows stale with me either. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:05:38 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Both Sides Now Thanks to everyone who sent me a warm welcome back note! I'm very happy to be back in Joniland and to celebrate I picked up the rusty ovation this morning and put the finishing touches on my tab for Just Like Me. I amended the capo from 2 to 4 and while I was in that tuning decided to play Both Sides Now for the first time in EONS!! I was so struck by the lines But now old friends are acting strange They shake their heads They say I've changed Well something lost and something's gained In living every day I actually got filled up and had to put the guitar down. So when I got to work I headed to Wally's Upcoming News section of the Joni Page and read the report that Joni is seriously considering calling her upcoming album Both Sides Now with a new version of this song. !!!!! This is so wonderful and the impact of such a simple classic song must be quite amazing for an artist like Joni who has such a vast, complex catalog. It reminds me of Paul McCartney when he was talking about writing Yesterday. He kept saying to himself that he must have picked this song off of something else that he could not have come up with something like this by himself. When the talent meets the Source the most amazing things happen, and the product is usually so simple its sublime. That's how I see Both Sides Now. Has anyone heard a release date yet for her new album? If any of you remember how long we waited for TTT, I guess that question is pretty stupid!! Take care, Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:14:14 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Eric Anderson To the person who asked "who is this guy?", Eric is indeed a contemporary of Joni, Dylan, Ochs, etc. and was big in the Greenwich Village scene of the '60s. Take a look on Wally's page of Joni contributions to others' recordings. She sang on "Blue River" and maybe another one? Joni has shown up to sing with Eric when he has performed at McCabe's in Santa Monica at least once. They shared the bill, but not the stage, at the "Troubadours of Folk" show in LA in '93. He has written, and is still writing, some great stuff, and is well worth seeing. Humph. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:34:28 -0700 (PDT) From: vsuzym Subject: Song for Sharon--Michael's loss Hi everybody; I was on the list for a while last year, left due to loss of internet, and am back. I hope I have sent this right. Michael Paz wrote: >>It's a sad today, as I am sitting here listening to SFS to kinda help to deal with these horrible feelings. I found out a friend put a gun in his mouth over the weekend and they planted him today. This has happened so many times before that it is starting to get to me.<< Michael, I am so sorry for your loss. It is devastating to lose someone, especially to suicide. It seems to make all of us wonder "How could it have happened? Was there no joy left in his/her life at all? Was s/he 'just shaking off futility, or punishing somebody'? I feel like one of the somebodies." >>He was not a "real close friend", but it was someone I dealt with professionally on a regular basis.<< I don't think that matters. It is so eerie and disruptive to know you just saw that person, and they "seemed okay", and now they're gone. It is a slap in our faces, and breaks the denial of death that most of us need just to keep on going. >>This does not come at a good time for me as I have been really down for quite some time (which is REALLY ODD FOR me). When I get down I think of my friends who have done this and of course it really scares me and brings the pain right "up front and center".<< I think just the fact that you have experienced this with more than one friend is ample reason for you to feel "really down". Please give yourself permission to work through your grief in your own way. Denying ourselves an outlet for our feelings ("I should be over this by now.") is one reason that people begin to feel isolated and hopeless. If we feel unable to share, it is a short step to believing that no one cares enough to hear, anyway, and that can eventually lead to suicide. >>Don't get me wrong the person that is sitting here typing this would never do that to myself (especially when I think of my children), but then again I think of some of the people that did this and I wonder how/why/but/etc/etc/ and go "oh shit something must just snap and THIS can happen to any onus".<< It's true that it can happen to any of us, but the kind of depression that leads to suicide is usually long-lasting and untreated (or not successfully treated, which can be even more depressing). This man, for too long, felt unable to connect to joy, and for some reason saw no other solution to his problems and feelings of isolation. I have survived long-term deep depression, including suicidal thoughts. It can be a terrifying slide into helplessness and despair. I urge anyone who might be feeling long-term feelings of isolation, worthlessness, despair, and inability to feel joy to fight with every last drop of energy, or do whatever you can to help anyone you know who might be suffering. You might save a life. Michael, depressed people often go to great lengths to hide their feelings. The fact that you reached out to us on the list shows your courage and determination to affirm life. You will be in my prayers. I hope this wasn't too preachy or NJC. I feel so strongly about this, I had to respond. And speaking of isolation, are there ANY other list members who live in Oklahoma? You can email me privately. I would love to meet you. === "To err is human, but it feels divine." (Mae West) Please forgive the following undeletable shameless marketing ploy from our sponsor ;D _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:49:31 EDT From: DreamZvil@aol.com Subject: Re: Song for Sharon--Michael's loss Hello and good morning - I just wanted to thank "v" for the words of kindness, enlightenment, and hope...for Michael perhaps, but oh-so-helpful to *all* of us who deal with depression, anxiety, and other mood disorders on a daily basis - in ourselves, our family, or friends. Keep the faith! In love & light, Susan of Dreamzville ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:20:06 EDT From: PJTJOY@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #238 Netherlands is one of my favorites. I am from Colorado (which he has named his home now) and it always accompanies me in my mountain ventures. It is a wonderful piece of work! PJTJOY@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:21:58 EDT From: PJTJOY@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #238 If any of you are familiar with "The Innocent Age", this is really a tribute album to Dan's Favorites. The song Nexus, includes Joni in backups. I heard an interview with him on KBCO (Boulder, Co). He was talking about his experience recording with her and her insistance on the "African Drums". If you listen to the song you will see she won! It is definitely worth it to check it out! Pam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:35:39 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: just like her njc Pat! I'm sorry! I made a mistake and called you Paul in my post! WallyK - -----Original Message----- De: P. Henry Para: joni@smoe.org ; Wally Kairuz Fecha: Miércoles 2 de Junio de 1999 03:40 Asunto: RE: just like her > >WallyK wrote: >"...I'm planning to play it at Ashara's." > > >thank you wally... I'm honored > pat > >NP: *great big satisfied ear-ear smile* > > > >Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:41:14 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: RE: Album Covers (Ent Wkly) NJC From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:36:27 -0400 Brian said: <> They must have run a different ad campaign in the South cuz' I always heard "Where's The Beef"...or maybe it was "Mantle O' Beef"..... Anyway, just thought I'd "Clara-fy"...get it? The actress who played the part of the old lady was named Clara Peller. Geez, Wendy's trivia, pretty lame... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:38:49 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Eric Anderson Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 22:40:32 -0700 From: Casey Certis-Milby I think I am queen undisputedly of lurkers- it's been going on so long, it's hard to confess at this point. I have been a list member since September of 1997, a Joni fan almost as long as I can remember. The irony of it is that it is Eric Anderson who finally gets me to speak up, but Joni plays a part. > The article also mentions his benchmark album of 1972 titled "Blue River". > Now where have I seen the words Blue and River mentioned > before?...... > Eric does not have the longevity of Joni or Dylan, but he wrote some great songs in his time, worth checking out. I looked for my copy of Blue River to see what factual information I could glean for you, but at this point in time all I have is the memory of Joni's beautiful background vocals on the title song. She soars, as she often does, and makes a beautiful song (IMHO) hauntingly so. So the Blue - River - Joni connection is there stronger than you might have imagined. Now, back to lurking, which for me takes the form of reading back issues (I'm up to Oct. '98, and boy that was an active spell) as well as the current ones. Someday I might try to explain. - -- "It is good to have an end to journey towards; but it is the journey that matters in the end." U.K.LeG. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:40:29 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Dan Fogelberg's Netherlands NJC From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:29:43 -0400 Terry was wondering: <> Sure Terry, I remember it - I was a pretty big fan back in the "Souvenirs" & "Captured Angel" days. This one came out when I was gone to Mexico for 2 weeks and I bought it right after I came back to the states. The title track is really nice with it's sweeping orchestration - reminds me of some of the C&S stuff with its full sound. If I'm not mistaken it was during these sessions that he became tight with Flutemeister Tim Weisberg and they began work on what would be his next work "Twin Sons of Different Mothers", also a very nice record... And for those of you into the "degrees of separation" thing, Dan is at 0 status as Joni sings with him on "Nexus", the first song on his 2-record set "The Innocent Age". A very pretty duet with Joni doing a sort of echo backing vocal. And, like Joni, he writes music & lyrics, plays a variety of instruments, and does his own cover art. He's not Joni's caliber, but way better than I could do! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:14:14 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Eric Anderson To the person who asked "who is this guy?", Eric is indeed a contemporary of Joni, Dylan, Ochs, etc. and was big in the Greenwich Village scene of the '60s. Take a look on Wally's page of Joni contributions to others' recordings. She sang on "Blue River" and maybe another one? Joni has shown up to sing with Eric when he has performed at McCabe's in Santa Monica at least once. They shared the bill, but not the stage, at the "Troubadours of Folk" show in LA in '93. He has written, and is still writing, some great stuff, and is well worth seeing. Humph. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 19:39:02 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Song For SharonNJC Like Michele, I don't believe people are punished for committing suicide. Actually, I don't believe people are punished by or for anything by some other Being. I think we are punished BY our sins, not for them. Many years ago, I put myself in a 9 day coma. To this day I vividly recall why I took such a course. I wanted the pain to stop. I was exhausted and felt wretched. I could see no other way to stop the pain.A the time I still believed the psych drugs could 'cure' me and was taking them as prescribed. And in my case, there was something others could have done to help my situation. When i awoke I was very angry but also more or less certain i would not do it again. I was not happy to be alive. Years later, still battling, I saw a program on tv about the effects suicide had on those left behind. I knew then that no matter how bad things got, I would never ever do that to John. Fortunately, today, after having found the right help for me, I know such a course of action will never need to be considered. Freedom is the greatest gift of all. (I would add only one situation where I believe suicide may be the right course-if one is suffering great physical pain and indiginity which cannot be relieved.) bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 12:46:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - June 3 1989: Joni performs at the UN "Our Common Future" benefit. From Wally's bio: [Today], there was a worldwide broadcast of a U.N. benefit show called "Our Common Future." The multi-hour show featured performances live from New York City interpersed with short films about troubled areas around the world. Joni performed with Herbie Hancock, Larry, Wayne Shorter, and Andy Summers (formally of the Police). They were billed on-screen as "Herbie Hancock's Super Band" and Joni was tagged as Joni Mitchell Klein. Mrs. Klein and the super band's performance was joined in progress near the end of their first number "The 3 Great Stimulants." Joni then got about halfway through the second number "Night Ride Home" when the producers cut away to commercials. I think it was just a case of bad timing. If the network had gone on air from NYC at the beginning. of either of her songs, there would have been enough time for her to finish. - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:55:34 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Song For SharonNJC catman wrote: > > Many years ago, I put myself in a 9 day coma. To this day I vividly recall why I > took such a course. I wanted the pain to stop. I was exhausted and felt wretched. > I could see no other way to stop the pain. I don't most people are aware that gay and lesbian youths are 3 times as likely to commit suicide than straight teens. Jerry np: A Day In the Garden (as I tape away.....) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:07:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Today in Joni History - June 3 - --- Today in Joni History wrote: > Joni was tagged as Joni > Mitchell Klein. That makes at least twice she's been called this. The "Thank yous" on Innocence Mission's first CD includes one to "Joni Mitchell Klein ..." I want to put a stop to any rumors before they start -- this was NOT my idea. ;-) Don Rowe (alias Larry Klein) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:54:07 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Album Covers (Ent. Wkly) In a message dated 6/1/1999 7:39:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ewwtaylor@adelphia.net writes: << It's SO blatant. Look at the guy on the right playing a horn. His flesh-colored lap prominently displays his family jewels. & the woman on the left (Joni?) also appears to be naked, sitting spread eagle. But this beautiful painting is clearly not pornographic. E.T. >> If this is true then where is it on Hejira? I looked (opps) and did not see anything that resembled that. Catgirl.. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:01:29 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Dan Fogelberg's Netherlands NJC In a message dated 6/1/1999 9:54:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: << I was just wondering if anyone is familiar with this old album. I just replaced my vinyl of this 70's piece and fell in love with it all over again. He sounds a lot like a male Joni vocalist with just a touch of country thrown in. Anyone? Terry >> I remember that album! Didn't it come out in like 1976 or close to it? I love the title track. He has that male Joni vocal but not the staying power that she had but he did have some good hits. I got his greatest hits CD. I think I would have prefered the one that you got instead! Enjoy! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:04:19 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: reading music NJC In a message dated 6/1/1999 11:26:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << >Is there any self-teaching program that you > know of? Only love, desire, (lots of) practice and good fakin' it. Kakki >> Good answer Kakki! Catgirl ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:05:41 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - Conga player in Winnipeg In a message dated 6/2/1999 12:06:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << Gerald (who read in the paper today that Pat Metheny, Herbie Hancock, and Wayne Shorter will all be in Winnipeg this month. Where's Joni?) >> Make sure you don't miss Pat. He is great in concert. I must have seen him about 6 or 7 times...always a treat!!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:07:30 -0400 (EDT) From: al_date@email.com Subject: NJC--ANTI FLAG-BURNING AMENDMENT TO CONSTITUTION PASSES HOUSE! --NJC Background: Washington attorney, Ivan Warner -- who had been imprisoned by the North Vietnamese from 1967 to 1973 -- wrote about the flag furor in the Washington Post: In March of 1973, when we were released from a prisoner of war camp in North Vietnam, we were flown to Clark Air Force base in the Philippines. As I stepped out of the aircraft I looked up and saw the flag. I caught my breath, then, as tears filled my eyes, I saluted it. I never loved my country more than at that moment. Although I have received the Silver Star Medal and two Purple Hearts, they were nothing compared with the gratitude I felt then for having been allowed to serve the cause of freedom. Because the mere sight of the flag meant so much to me when I saw it for the first time after five and a half years, it hurts me to see other Americans willfully desecrate it. But I have been in a Communist prison where I looked into the pit of hell. I cannot compromise with those who want to punish the flag burners. Let me explain myself. Early in the imprisonment, the Communists told us that we did not have to stay there. If we would only admit that we were wrong, if we would only apologize, we could be released early. If we did not, we would be punished. A handful accepted, most did not. In our minds, early release under those conditions would amount to a betrayal, of our comrades, of our country and of our flag. Because we would not say the words they wanted us to say, they made our lives wretched. Most of us were tortured and some of my comrades died. I was tortured for most of the summer of 1969. I developed beriberi from malnutrition. I had long bouts of dysentery. I was infested with intestinal parasites. I spent thirteen months in solitary confinement. Was our cause worth all of this? Yes, it was worth all this and more. I remember one interrogation where I was shown a photograph of some Americans protesting the war by burning a flag. "There," the officer said. "People in your country protest against your cause. That proves you are wrong." "No," I said. "That proves that I am right. In my country we are not afraid of freedom, even if it means that people disagree with us." The officer was on his feet in an instant, his face purple with rage. He smashed his fist onto the table and screamed at me to shut up. While he was ranting I was astonished to see pain, compounded by fear, in his eyes. I have never forgotten that look, nor have I forgotten the satisfaction I felt at using his tool, the picture of the burning flag, against him. "We don't need to amend the Constitution in order to punish those who burn our flag. They burn the flag because they hate America and they are afraid of freedom. What better way to hurt them than with the subversive idea of freedom? Spread freedom.... Don't be afraid of freedom. Excerpted from: Hentoff, Nat, Free Speech for Me - But Not for Thee: How the American Left and Right Relentlessly Censor Each Other, HarperCollins, 1992, pp. 238-239. - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:26:42 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: June MOJO Magazine- Joni 70s live recording pegged fo... Subject: Re: June MOJO Magazine- Joni 70s live recording pegged for relea --------------------------------- Patti said: <> Welcome, Patti! Mojo is great, even though it's expensive...so much to absorb in every issue. <> This is truly exciting stuff, and Rykodisc will do a great job I'm sure. I don't know any better, but could there potentially be a problem since she's contracted to Reprise? The Steely Dan should especially be awesome! I saw in the May Mojo where a couple of stores are taking advance orders for their next record called "Two Against Nature" for a June release?? My guess is that a June release is NOT the case - do any of the Dansters out there know for sure...Wow, '99 has been quite the year for comebacks; XTC, Tom Waits, Star Wars, and now Steely Dan! Bouncing Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:32:20 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Andrew Wyeth NJC Lindsay in San Diego said: <> Ironically, up until about a year ago, Greenville SC housed the greatest Andrew Wyeth collection in the world! The Helga reference is to Andrew and not JC... A lot of them were sold off but there is still lots of Wyeth here, including a lot of sketches and studies that are always neat to see (kinda like hearing a HOSL demo tape). Bob, who hasn't got TT#8 yet but is already looking forward to this HOSL demo being a part of TT#9 (Number 9, Number 9.....) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 21:12:58 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Song For SharonNJC Jerry Notaro wrote: > catman wrote: > > > > > Many years ago, I put myself in a 9 day coma. To this day I vividly recall why I > > took such a course. I wanted the pain to stop. I was exhausted and felt wretched. > > I could see no other way to stop the pain. > > I don't most people are aware that gay and lesbian youths are 3 times as likely to > commit suicide than straight teens. I was aware off this statistic. however, in my case that was the least of my problems at that time, tho it didn't help! > > > Jerry > > np: A Day In the Garden (as I tape away.....) - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:11:42 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Ent. Weekly Discrepancy!? In a message dated 6/2/1999 12:25:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, moonlj@san.rr.com writes: << "The resulting collaboration [referring to jamming with Jamaican musicians] and hit single [Mother and Child Reunion] broke ground for the Anglo-worldbeat of Talking Heads, Sting, Joni Mitchell, and Simon's 1986 >> Mother and Chile reunion came out in 1972 off of The aslbu just titled paul Simon. He is wearing a parka with a fur hat. I don't know when Mother and Child reunion was released.)? I've always thought Joni was the forerunner -- certainly long before Simon and Peter Gabriel who mostly get the credit for using world beats first. And don't misunderstand, I love Paul Simon and think he's a brilliant musician in his own right. Puzzled, but feeling that Joni was first and that's that. I think he was the for runner with Joni close at his heels My husband knows more about this then me so I will ask him. Catgirl..Joni freak Mewsikmann...Paul Simon freak! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 21:16:18 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC--ANTI FLAG-BURNING AMENDMENT TO CONSTITUTION PASSES HOUSE! --NJC This would have been a very stirring and heartwarming story or bravery and integrity had the war been just. Since the war was not just, it falls rather flat. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:27:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: NJC--ANTI FLAG-BURNING AMENDMENT TO CONSTITUTION PASSES HOUSE! --NJC - --- catman wrote: > This would have been a very stirring and > heartwarming story or bravery and integrity had the > war been just. Since the war was not just, it falls > rather flat. > > To paraphrase a quip from the musical 1776 ... Don't you know that war is always justified in the first person, such as "OUR war." It is only in the third person, "THEIR war" that it is unjust ... ;-) Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:18:01 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: HOSL Demo Tape Bob wrote: > Bob, who hasn't got TT#8 yet but is already looking forward to > this HOSL demo being a part of TT#9 (Number 9, Number 9.....) I hope I'm not stepping on any toes talking about this tape - it's just that my absolute delight with it is overrding any sense of discretion! I played it repeatedly till the wee hours of the morning. Are you confirming that it will be on TT#9, Bob? I hope there is a good "master" copy out there - the one I have "multi-generational". My initial sense of this tape is that it is significantly different from the final HOSL. In parts Joni sounds very much, for lack of a better description, "Miles-of-Aisles-ish" but mostly, to me, it is very reminiscent of her sound and style from For The Roses. On most of the cuts, it appears to be just Joni, her guitar and a lot of Joni vocal overdub, echo and harmony. Several cuts also seems to be just Joni and the piano - and this gives it the FTR feeling. Joni's voice sounds more innocent, sometimes pensive and sometimes breezy on this tape and does not not exhibit the sophisticated style of the final album. I love this - it'sa little like FTR - Part Two, but that's just own feeling. I would not say that it is in any way superior to the final HOSL album - it's just a very beautiful and surprising variation. I'll do my small part to send a few copies around the list and hope that it does make it to a tape tree. Also, want to forever thank everyone who has sent such amazing gems to me since I joined the list. I can never express enough appreciation. Kakki NP: Alternative Boho Dance ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #239 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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