From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #236 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, June 1 1999 Volume 04 : Number 236 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Matala Moon [Howard Wright ] re: Matalla Moon [Robert Holliston ] Re Joni Hate [pmeyer ] Misunderstanding Joni lyrics (was Matalla Moon) [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Joni Spouses and Similarities in Her Music ["Beverly" ] Re: Misunderstanding Joni lyrics (was Matalla Moon) [Ashara@aol.com] Re: Joni Spouses and Similarities in Her Music [RMuRocks@aol.com] RE: JMDL Digest V4 #235 [Doug Barrett ] Re: Misunderstanding Joni lyrics (was Matalla Moon) [catman ] Re: Matalla Moon [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Matalla Moon (NJC) ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Re: Heresy [catman ] Re: Matalla Moon [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Matalla Moon ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Re: Heresy [Ginamu@aol.com] NJC-Dundle brains Unite (Was Mattela Moon) ["Alan Larson" ] Re: Matala Moon [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni Spouses and Similarities in Her Music [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni Spouses and Similarities in Her Music [Randy Remote ] Why Joni Will not be on VH1 Behind the Music ["Happy The Man" ] Re: JMDL "entrance exam" [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: JMDL "entrance exam" [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: JMDL "entrance exam" [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Why Joni Will not be on VH1 Behind the Music [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: JMDL "entrance exam" ["Beverly" ] Re: Heresy [RMuRocks@aol.com] Piano music for Blue [Les Irvin ] Re: Piano music for Blue ["Kakki" ] Re: Matalla Moon ["Kakki" ] hi from an erstwhile JMDLer [Gerald McNamara ] Re: hi from an erstwhile JMDLer [Janet Hess ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:48:29 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: Matala Moon From: Frank Miceli >In "Cary," Joni sings of the "mattala moon." I've searched all the >dictionaries for mattala but come up dry. Can someone help? Matala is a place on the south coast of Crete. Joni stayed there for some time around 1970 - there was a community of hippies that lived in caves near the beach. Joni has talked about her times there in a couple of articles - if you go to www.jmdl.com and do a search for "Matala" I'm sure you'll find something. I was in Crete a few months ago on holiday and so *had* to go to Matala. I have to admit, it is very much a "tourist town"! I didn't see the Mermaid Cafe, and what was a bit weird, we didn't see the moon at Matala even though we stayed till late. Even more freaky, we didn't see the moon *anytime* we were on Crete, and we stayed for 10 days! It became a running joke, but I never quite understood why we didn't see it. We had perefect clear nights, lots of stars, but no moon! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 03:02:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Holliston Subject: re: Matalla Moon With shame I must admit: Until this thread, I always heard that line as: "Beneath the mantle of the moon" Not that I ever quite understood what that meant, either ;-) Aaargh! Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 03:06:41 -0700 From: pmeyer Subject: Re Joni Hate My family complains about Joni's voice. I can't quite fathom what the problem is, as I think her voice is fine! But, they seem to identify a quality on her sustained notes, some kind of vibrato I guess, that they aren't pleased with. I suspect they're a little jealous of my Joni obsession, too. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 07:58:30 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Misunderstanding Joni lyrics (was Matalla Moon) In a message dated 99-05-31 06:05:05 EDT, rhollis@islandnet.com writes: >With shame I must admit: >Until this thread, I always heard that line as: > "Beneath the mantle of the moon" > >Not that I ever quite understood what that meant, either ;-) > > I can top you, Roberto! While listening to C/S as a teenager, I always thought that the line: "I've been sitting up waiting for my sugar to show," from Car on the Hill, meant that the person in the song was diabetic and was waiting for the results of her urine test to adjust her insulin! Just another thing to do while waiting for a date. You know: clean your closets, file your nails, check your blood sugar level. I don't think I dropped that line of reasoning until......heck....maybe I STILL think that! MG np: Van Morrison: Miss You So Much ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 08:03:35 -0000 From: "Beverly" Subject: Re: Joni Spouses and Similarities in Her Music Thanks to both David and Mark for their explanations as to the similarities I hear in Joni's compositions. I'm a bit lacking in the vernacular of music. It's nice to know what's really going on, musically, when all I hear is "something sounds similar." Thanks for the elucidation! I've read that Joni had little, if no formal music education and that she cannot "write" music. She must just have an innate ability to understand the complexities of music composition. Bev ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 08:11:08 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Spouses and Similarities in Her Music In a message dated 99-05-31 08:08:04 EDT, TheFishPond@prodigy.net writes: >I've read that Joni had little, if no formal music education and that she >cannot "write" music. She must just have an innate ability to understand >the complexities of music composition. > > That sounds like Joan Baez! Joni, I believe, took formal piano lessons, but that was that. No denying that she DOES have an incredible, innate musical ability, but I do believe that she can read and write music. MG - postponing today's "Grandma Invasion Home Improvement Program" agenda items for a bit more...... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 08:17:02 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Spouses and Similarities in Her Music In a message dated 5/31/99 8:04:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TheFishPond@prodigy.net writes: << I've read that Joni had little, if no formal music education and that she cannot "write" music. She must just have an innate ability to understand the complexities of music composition. Bev >> "Ignorance is bliss," she once told an interviewer on that subject, might have been Downbeat magazine. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 08:22:31 -0000 From: "Beverly" Subject: Re: Misunderstanding Joni lyrics (was Matalla Moon) MG wrote: >I can top you, Roberto! While listening to C/S as a teenager, I always >thought that the line: "I've been sitting up waiting for my sugar to show," >from Car on the Hill, meant that the person in the song was diabetic and was >waiting for the results of her urine test to adjust her insulin! C&S is filled with "mishearings" for me. On the title song, when she sang: "Love came to my door with a sleeping roll..." I thought that someone was bringing her pastries. On "The Same Situation" I heard "with a heaven full of astronauts and Lord on 'his throne'" Bev, who still thinks Jimi Hendrix was singing - 'scuse me while I kiss this guy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 08:48:24 -0000 From: "Beverly" Subject: Re: Joni Spouses and Similarities in Her Music MG wrote: < Subject: Re: Matalla Moon Same here, Roberto... (the Rev) Vince Robert Holliston wrote: > With shame I must admit: > Until this thread, I always heard that line as: > "Beneath the mantle of the moon" > > Not that I ever quite understood what that meant, either ;-) > > Aaargh! > Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:53:33 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: Misunderstanding Joni lyrics (was Matalla Moon) Fishy Bev writes: << On "The Same Situation" I heard "with a heaven full of astronauts and Lord on 'his throne'" >> You mean it's NOT this????? Goddess help me, I think I've mondegreened every single solitary Joni song there is! I would be embarrassed to even "think" of the bandwidth my Joni mondegreens would take! Hugs, Ashara {frantically flipping through her Complete Poems and Lyrics book.} ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:51:16 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Spouses and Similarities in Her Music Bev noted: << I've read that Joni had little, if no formal music education and that she cannot "write" music. She must just have an innate ability to understand the complexities of music composition. >> And further to that, I would say that it's an asset in her composition. Both Thelonius Monk & Duke Ellington stated that not knowing the "rules" of music was a blessing because it gave them more freedom. Joni comments in an interview about the "devil chords" she plays in "Sunny Sunday" and how others with fundamental education in music theory would never have composed that particular chord progression as it goes against theory. Bob NP: REM, "Bittersweet Me" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 08:58:53 -0500 From: Doug Barrett Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V4 #235 <> I read somewhere that the two songs were written during the same session and that DJRD and Coyote are both parts of a continuing piece (a hejira if you will). BTW, someone mentioned a 1976 album with a penis on the cover. Is this Hejira? (I must confess my ignorance, but I had always given her the benefit of the doubt on that one. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 15:00:31 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Misunderstanding Joni lyrics (was Matalla Moon) I always thought it was '....at Heathrow'. Ashara@aol.com wrote: > Fishy Bev writes: > > << On "The Same Situation" I heard "with a heaven full of astronauts and Lord > on 'his throne'" >> > > You mean it's NOT this????? Goddess help me, I think I've mondegreened every > single solitary Joni song there is! I would be embarrassed to even "think" of > the bandwidth my Joni mondegreens would take! > > Hugs, > Ashara {frantically flipping through her Complete Poems and Lyrics book.} - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:59:39 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Heresy I am in the mood for a new flame war (just kidding!) so I am going to offer the following blasphemous thoughts: 1. I do NOT think that "Blue" is depressing at all. "Carey,' 'All I Want,' and 'A Case of You' are among my all-time personal favorite happy songs... and that is 30% of the album. I don't think any of the other songs are downers, as the usual thinking goes, as in: can't listen to Blue when I'm depressed yada yada yada. Blue is my favorite of them all, which means that I spent the most time with it and have the most happy memories of hours of playing it over and over. "All I Want" is the unofficial theme of my partner's and my relationship, as the line about "all I really, really want our love to do is to bring out the best in me and in you too" was said on day two some 14+ years ago, and is still said. So my associations with Blue are all upbeat and cheerful. The fact that Joni covers a wide range of human emotions in the album is a testament to her genius. 2. No one talks about Clouds, but that has a warm place in my heart; it was my first Joni, and I got it as it rolled off the truck into the store all those years ago and I used to play it for everyone who got near my record player. 3. In the Heijra/FTR debate, I'd vote - if I HAD to vote - for NRH as the best (as opposed to my favorite, which is, as I said, Blue). The first time I played NRH I was stunned by the genius of it. However, the more I listen to TI, the more I am able to move that up the list of my favorites. I like to think that what Joni does now is the best part of her work as the artist matures and grows, and it is hard for me to go back 25 years and say that something she did then, as brilliant and as virtuosic as it was, has not been surpassed by all that she has learned since. That is why I loved seeing her last October in Chicago: an artist who has continued to evolve and grow, in full command of her craft, even when she does the older songs not doing them the same way because she has continued to develop even the way she does the older things... unlike the revival bands. I saw the Doobies in 97, a fun evening, but note for note the same thing they did all those years ago. The Stones... what a drag that Mick Jagger hasn't had a new musical thought since 1972. With Joni, take "Woodstock: for example: listen to it on LOTC, then MOA, and S&L, then in PWWAM... she continues to explore the song musically and the excitement is in how she is going to interpret it now! That is sheer artistry, sheer musical growth and development in the hands of an accomplished, creative, mature, secure artist. The "Amelia" that I heard in Chicago is not the same as I heard on the original album, and God bless Joni for growing and not being a revival act. The first "Amelia" is wonderful, but Joni now brings to it all that she learned since then, and that is what makes her an extraordinary artist - as we all know! 4. The whole FTR/Heijra argument is silly anyway. For example, I hear people say in another context, that God is #1, their spouse is #2, children #3, etc., and that to me way off base. God doesn't ask us to rank how much we love as if it is the AP Top 25 football poll... and God certainly doesn't want us to love God MORE than we love our spouse, or are children, God is not that petty. God wants us to love God as much as we ought to love God, and love our spouse/partner/whatever as much as we ought to love that person, and love our children with all the love, as much as we ought to have, for our children. Each kind of love is different, and our love is to be maximum in the relationship, not obsessive, but healthy. In the same way then, I love FTR as much as I ought to love FTR; I love Heijra as much as I ought to love Heijra, etc. In opera, I love Le Nozze di Figaro best, but I am not going to argue that it is better than Don Giovanni, or better than anything by Verdi or Puccini or Wagner, for each speaks to each different person in a different way. I expect that each Joni work speaks to someone else differently than it speaks to me. I wouldn't personally rate Mingus at the upper portion of my personal favorites, although it is an extraordinary work, and I am thankful she did it, but it doesn't speak to me in the same way as WTRF does. So to argue which is better misses the point; it is more to the point to share why something means something to us than to arbitrarily rank things that are not meant to be ranked! On the ninth day, God created Joni, and it was good! All good! All the time! All of it! Just some of it means a bit more to me than others do. Enough for the sermon and I shut up and get out of here! (the Rev) Vince PS: let us remember today as we are doing all of our day-off things, to keep in our prayers or thoughts or meditations or whatever each one does, Wally B. and all those who have shared that they have ill health; and to all, send our love. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:32:44 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Matalla Moon In a message dated 5/31/99 6:04:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rhollis@islandnet.com writes: << With shame I must admit: Until this thread, I always heard that line as: "Beneath the mantle of the moon" >> You're not the only one! This was discussed once before and it wasn't until someone explained it to the list that I realized what she was really singing. I also thought she was saying "Italians" instead of "batallions" on Harry's House. And you know there could be more.. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:46:47 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: Matalla Moon (NJC) Maybe there should be some "Required Reading" before you're allowed to join on the JMDL. You would have to read the book "Words & Poetry" and then take a test before becoming a JMDLer. Just don't ask in the test where Matala is. TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > > You're not the only one! This was discussed once before and it wasn't until > someone explained it to the list that I realized what she was really singing. > I also thought she was saying "Italians" instead of "batallions" on Harry's > House. And you know there could be more.. > > Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:52:01 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Heresy For now, I think I agree that i prefer NRH to all of Joni's albums. It is certainly the one I play the most. The Windfall, Cherokee louise, Passion Play, Slouching Toward Bethlehem, Come In From The Cold are all stunning to me. Mind you, it also has Ray's Dad's Cadillac which i find very annoying. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:57:15 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Matalla Moon In a message dated 5/31/99 11:51:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, slarty@total.net writes: > Maybe there should be some "Required Reading" before you're allowed to join > on > the JMDL. > You would have to read the book "Words & Poetry" and then take a test before > becoming a JMDLer. > Just don't ask in the test where Matala is. > > I like this idea as a game ( but not as an entrance exam) like the one they had at some website. I remember someone posted the address and some of us played. It was great fun. I wonder if there's any way to do this through the list. Just an idea. Take care, Gina NP: People's Parties, MOI PS. Why NJC on this??? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:08:29 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: Matalla Moon I wasn't being very serious, but seriously if someone wanted to put together a test just for fun we could all take it and then see who the "Best" JMDLers are. We could grade ourselves and someone with high marks would be allowed to put five stars after there name and those unfourtunate dundle brains who knew nothing would maybe get one star. By the way I put (NJC) as it doesn't really concern Joni or Joni news. Ken* Ginamu@aol.com wrote: > I like this idea as a game ( but not as an entrance exam) like the one they > had at some website. I remember someone posted the address and some of us > played. It was great fun. I wonder if there's any way to do this through the > list. Just an idea. > > PS. Why NJC on this??? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:13:32 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Heresy In a message dated 5/31/99 11:54:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: > For now, I think I agree that i prefer NRH to all of Joni's albums. It is > certainly the one I play the most. > The Windfall, Cherokee louise, Passion Play, Slouching Toward Bethlehem, > Come In From The Cold are all stunning to me. Mind you, it also has Ray's > Dad's Cadillac which i find very annoying. > I too adore NRH. It is the favorite of my family. My kids love the title track and Passion Play. I love *every single song* on this wondrous record. I too played it more than any other until TTT came along. At first, I wasn't sure how it would sit with me, but lately I've had it nonstop in the boom box in my room and I've been waking up to it, falling asleep to it, playing cuts from it when I'm up in my room, taking time away from my puttering and muttering to listen to a single track here and there. In those instances of having time only for one track, I've invariably chosen Love Puts On A New Face. It sums up a lot of what I'm feeling about my life right now: About a month or so later he said, "Why can't you be happy? You make me feel helpless when you get this way" I said "I'm up to my neck in alligators - Jaws gnashing at me! Each one trying to pull a piece away! Darlin' you can't slay These beasts of prey... Some bad dreams Even love can't erase" Then there the sheer genius and beauty of these lines in the song: I said "No telephones ringing! No company coming! Just the lap of the lake And the firelight And the lonely lune, And the crescent moon, What a pocket of heavenly grace!" Vince, I enjoyed your post so very much. Thanks. Amazing. Totally amazing. I am awed by this song. Sheeeeeesh...my Joni cup runeth over...siiiiiiigh Take care, Gina NP: Both Sides Now from MOI - (took a break from TTT, but it's gonna come on next!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:24:15 -0700 From: "Alan Larson" Subject: NJC-Dundle brains Unite (Was Mattela Moon) delurking.... freshly awake with the smells of a new day... and now i read that if this trivia contest of ken's were to take place... i would most certainly rate the status of dundle brain... LOL... "perhaps only one star." WAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love the idea Ken... let's make it fun... perhaps prizes are in order? not dundle brain status? Maybe a separate quiz for each recording of hers? or diff categories...??? "You know, I know it's dangerous... but I was THINKING the other day." (jesse colin young) alan@isunet.net ps. thanks to all who did admit to some fun and enjoyment from my Great children's Songs thread, especially Wally K... my best to Wally B.... thanks a lot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:48:09 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Matala Moon In a message dated 5/31/1999 4:50:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, haw@ph.ed.ac.uk writes: << I didn't see the Mermaid Cafe, and what was a bit weird, we didn't see the moon at Matala even though we stayed till late. Even more freaky, we didn't see the moon *anytime* we were on Crete, and we stayed for 10 days! It became a running joke, but I never quite understood why we didn't see it. We had perefect clear nights, lots of stars, but no moon! >> I guess that is why she mentioned the moon. It is so rare to see that when she did she had to talk about it at least in one song! Catgirl...dreaming..... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:56:17 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Spouses and Similarities in Her Music In a message dated 5/31/1999 8:04:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TheFishPond@prodigy.net writes: << I've read that Joni had little, if no formal music education and that she cannot "write" music. She must just have an innate ability to understand the complexities of music composition. >> I think I would consider Joni a child prodogy even though she didn't get into learning the piano, guitar until she was in her late teens. She had a natural ability to find melodies with 6 strings on a guitar to the point of tuning the strings to find some gorgeous harmonies to satisfy her needs. It is quite amazing that simple guitar cords were found however, to come up with that on her own is truely an act of pure genius! Don't even get me started with the piano. The stuff she played off of LOTC was quite incredible. I took piano for a couple of years and still could not reach her natural piano style. In My opinion, I think she is a musical genius let alone lyrically genius as well! Catgirl..sounding like a fanatic...oh well! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:00:43 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni Spouses and Similarities in Her Music Beverly wrote: > I maintain that at least up to 1974 she could not write music. My guitar > instructor played session backup on her single release of "Blond in the > Bleachers." During this time, according to Bob Rafkin, she could not write > her own music and paid others to transcribe it. Wait a sec... For the Roses came out in '72. Blonde in the Bleachers was not, to my knowledge, released as a single (You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio was) Steve Stills played the extra parts on that song and I have never heard that it was rerecorded. Further, it seems doubtful that she would need her music transcribed, wouldn't she just play the song a few times for the musicians, or give them a tape? It's true that for the songbooks, outside transcribers have been used. Forgive me if I am off base here, but I think this fellow is pulling your leg. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:05:51 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: JMDL "entrance exam" In a message dated 99-05-31 12:03:05 EDT, Ginamu@aol.com writes: >I like this idea as a game ( but not as an entrance exam) like the one they >had at some website. I remember someone posted the address and some of us >played. It was great fun. I wonder if there's any way to do this through the >list. Just an idea. > > A bit back, there was a JMDL savenger hunt. Lots of neat Joni-context things. MG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:39:17 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: JMDL "entrance exam" NJC I would hate an "entrance exam" for all who love Joni are welcome, not just those who already have their Joni PhD, but the game sounds great, as Gina suggests, and MG's scavenger hunt sounds great too! Let's do it again, for some of us, for the first time! (the Rev) Vince > Gina writes: > > >I like this idea as a game ( but not as an entrance exam) > MG with wisdom adds: > A bit back, there was a JMDL savenger hunt. Lots of neat Joni-context things. > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 17:23:04 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Why Joni Will not be on VH1 Behind the Music I have watched a few of these over the last year and find that there whole basis for doing them is based upon this: success, tragedy and triumph I guess for Joni to even be honored (if that is what you call it) she would have to admit that in the 80's she released shit for music, she was a heroin addict who made peace with herself by kicking the habit and falling back on a being a coke whore who drank to much, only to find some sort of spiritual awakening through her marriage to Larry Klien which brought peace to her life and a since of inner self that released the passion of her 90's chart toppers. since she probably is a little to stable to that she might have to encourage Brian Hinton to write some damning tell all that drags her down to VH1 hell. So I guess were struck with a Women of Heart and Mind Peace, Craig Still holding out for a MTV special "Sluts of the Seventies" Women who slept there way to the top! NP: TTWS - Coil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 19:14:50 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Joni Trivial "Entrance Exam" If someone can dig up the old Bill Dollinger scavenger hunt from the archives and send it to me, I'll be happy to put together a new one for the list. Goodness knows I'll need a diversion from the Grandma Invasion next week! MG - 8 days and counting..... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 20:27:05 -0000 From: "Beverly" Subject: Re: Joni Spouses and Similarities in Her Music Randy wrote: > >Wait a sec... For the Roses came out in '72. Oops. The date is simply a typo on my part. Bob stopped doing session work in 1974. >Blonde in the Bleachers was not, to my knowledge, released >as a single (You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio was) >Steve Stills played the extra parts on that song and I have never >heard that it was rerecorded. >Further, it seems doubtful that she would need her music >transcribed, wouldn't she just play the song a few times >for the musicians, or give them a tape? It's true that for the >songbooks, outside transcribers have been used. You are probably right about "Blond in the Bleachers" not be released. However, I relayed the story just as Bob explained it to me over a year ago. He's hardly the bragging type. I knew from my first lessen with him that he had worked with Joni based on his resume which circulates widely in well respected folk music circles in Florida. (Bob is at heart, a folksinger). I called him to get a clarification on the story, but he's in Ft. Lauderdale doing a Memorial Weekend gig. From Bob Rafkin's resume: ... "...while in the Village, Bob met folksingers Phil Ochs and Eric Andersen, along with Eric Jacobsen, producer for the Lovin' Spoonful, Tim Hardin and Sopwith Camel. In 1968, Eric Jacobsen moved to San Francisco to start Sweet Reliable Productions. Bob also relocated there to work as a producer, musical arranger and session guitarist. Old friends David Blue and Phil Ochs had moved to Los Angeles, where Bob eventually settled after breaking with Jacobsen in 1969. He played on and produced David Blue's 1972 Asylum LP "Stories," and two LP's by Phil Ochs including the legendary live album, "Gunfight At Carnegie Hall." Jobs were plentiful as Bob worked along side producers Henry Lewy, Larry Marks and Lenny Waronker. He played on sessions for Gene Vincent, the Everly Brothers, Randy Newman and Arlo Guthrie, and was hired to rework Joni Mitchell's 1972 song, "Blond in the Bleachers," for a single release. Bob's songwriting career took flight in the early seventies with his song "Lazy Waters," which was covered by the Byrd's on their LP "Farther Along...." >Forgive me if I am off base here, but I think this fellow is >pulling your leg. I would hate to think he made any of this up. I hope not. He's a good friend and it took me six months of prodding just to get him to talk to me about Joni. However, I don't know why "Blond in the Bleachers" would have needed reworking, I'll have to ask Bob again. Bev ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 22:17:35 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Matala Moon you're right howard: that is really weird! even assuming that you got there when there was a new moon, in 10 days you would have had time to witness the new phase. hmmm, trippy... wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: Howard Wright Para: Joni@smoe.org CC: fsmiceli@home.com Fecha: Lunes 31 de Mayo de 1999 02:58 Asunto: Matala Moon Even more freaky, we >didn't see the moon *anytime* we were on Crete, and we stayed for 10 days! >It became a running joke, but I never quite understood why we didn't see >it. We had perefect clear nights, lots of stars, but no moon! > >Howard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 22:37:11 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL "entrance exam" In a message dated 5/31/99 4:09:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MGVal@aol.com writes: << n a message dated 99-05-31 12:03:05 EDT, Ginamu@aol.com writes: >I like this idea as a game ( but not as an entrance exam) like the one they >had at some website. I remember someone posted the address and some of us >played. It was great fun. I wonder if there's any way to do this through the >list. Just an idea. > > A bit back, there was a JMDL scavenger hunt. Lots of neat Joni-context things. MG >> A couple of months ago I was jumped on for suggesting an introductory FAQ (what does SIQUOMB mean?) that people would have to go through before joining the list. I guess like Joni I'm just a little ahead of my time. I still think it is a good idea. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 22:56:27 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL "entrance exam" In a message dated 5/31/1999 10:45:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, IVPAUL42@AOL.COM writes: << A couple of months ago I was jumped on for suggesting an introductory FAQ (what does SIQUOMB mean?) that people would have to go through before joining the list. I guess like Joni I'm just a little ahead of my time. I still think it is a good idea. Paul I >> I don't think that is such a good idea...sorry...I have been a fan of Joni's since I was 14. I am much older now but I think I would have said that siquomb was the name of her publishing co. I remember years ago her telling the story of where it came from but if I would have had to know *where it came from* to join the group, I would still be sitting in my very quiet Joni Mitchell list with 20 other quiet people. WE all love Joni for our own specific reasons..... I don't think she would want her fans to have to know a certain something about her befor they could join this discussion list. these are just my thought and I could be wrong. However, I don't think so...Joni just seems more down to earth then that. Catgirl...siquomb....now what does that stand for...scratching head...brain work! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:13:50 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL "entrance exam" In a message dated 5/31/99 10:03:36 PM Central Daylight Time, CaTGirl627@aol.com writes: << Catgirl...siquomb....now what does that stand for...scratching head...brain work! >> I don't think Paul's talking about passing a test prior to joining the JMDL, Catgirl. Only that all newbies get exposed to a FAQ so they pick up some of the nomenclature. I agree that any kind of test would not be a good idea, but looking back at my newbie days, it would've been nice to have a couple of FAQ's in front of me. At any length, I found out soon enough... Bob NP: Little Feat, "All That You Dream" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:18:54 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Why Joni Will not be on VH1 Behind the Music Craig says of VH1's 'Behind The Music': << I have watched a few of these over the last year and find that there whole basis for doing them is based upon this: success, tragedy and triumph >> Or the ever-popular plane crash (ala Stevie Ray & Lynyrd Skynyrd), but I don't even wanna go there. I'd rather have Joni alive and making music then see her on VH1. Of course, they could do a "Where Are They Now" segment with her, start it by saying "You dumbasses, she's still making great records!!" Then play TTT for the rest of the hour... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:21:53 -0000 From: "Beverly" Subject: Re: JMDL "entrance exam" >Catgirl...siquomb....now what does that stand for...scratching head...brain >work! SIQUOMB: She Is Queen Undisputedly of Mind Beauty. The name came from one of her many writing projects. As she would explain on Philadelphia radio station WMMR in March 1967, she was writing a mythology, the names of its various members derived from acronyms based on descriptive phrases. There were, for instance, a race of miniature women, the Posall ("Perhaps Our Souls Are Little Ladies"), and men; the Mosalm ("Maybe Our souls Are Little Men"). ~Goldmine Magazine, February 17, 1995. Bev ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:36:04 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Heresy The Rev. runs in turning over tables :~) and declaring: << 1. I do NOT think that "Blue" is depressing at all. The fact that Joni covers a wide range of human emotions in the album is a testament to her genius.>> Vince, I don't think you're going to start up any forest fires here...there are actually a lot of parallels between Blue & WTRF, both have upbeat "happy" songs and breathtakingly sad ones...probably all of her albums fall into the category. But I do feel with Blue she has a couple songs so obviously personal & grief-filled you can't help but commisserate. While songs like "Ethiopia" also bring a tear to my eye every time, "Little Green" & "Chinese Cafe" are so confessional they are, well, not depressing (to me anyway), but they do seem a little sadder than her songs of universal sadness. << No one talks about Clouds>> And YOU didn't for very long either...:~) <> Which is why all that "favorite" stuff is so much fun; it makes you think about what you like and don't like, or (in my case) what you may not appreciate fully because you don't understand or you haven't invested enough time in it, and it also prompts a lot of great discussion with the greatest Joni-minds in the world!! Admittedly, if I was only allowed one Joni on the infamous desert island, I'd never make it to said island because I'd be killed fighting for them all. Enough for now, my eyes are closing - zzzzzzzzzzzzz Bob NP: Little Feat, "Somebody's Leavin'" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:13:00 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Piano music for Blue From: Lori Century At 5/31/99 03:33 AM , Lori Century wrote: >Hi, this is Lori in Spain. I am writing with an urgent request....you >see I want to sing Blue in a concert here of the teachers in my >conservatory, The piano teacher told me to find some songs to sing with >him. I looked in the song books I have and the version of Blue just >has the accompanyment in the left hand with the melody written in the >right hand. You can understand that I would really like the piano acc. >written out as is. In the hits and misses book is the piano part >better??? Would it be possible to have some one scan it for me and >send it urgently via internet? I am sorry to write only with requests. >If you canīt help would it be possible for you to send this on to the >list for me please. Thanks alot. Lori Century Can anyone help Lori out? Thanks, Les ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 22:15:23 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Piano music for Blue Lori Century wrote: > I looked in the song books I have and the version of Blue just >has the accompanyment in the left hand with the melody written in the >right hand. You can understand that I would really like the piano acc. >written out as is. In the hits and misses book is the piano part >better??? "Blue" is not included in the Hits, Misses or Anthology songbooks ;-( Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 22:54:11 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Matalla Moon Roberto wrote: > With shame I must admit: > Until this thread, I always heard that line as: > "Beneath the mantle of the moon" That is how it is written in the Blue songbook. The Hits songbook still didn't get it right - it says "beneath the Matalla of the moon." The original Blue album cover says "beneath the Matalla of Moon" as does the new Blue Gold CD liner notes (trying to be incorrectly "authentic" to the original??). Amazingly, the Complete Poems and Lyrics book gets it right - "beneath the Matalla moon". I used to think the songbook and album were both incorrect and that it was suppose to be the "mandala moon"! Kakki NP: Joni - My Old Man ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 6:37:16 UTC From: Gerald McNamara Subject: hi from an erstwhile JMDLer At last, after nearly 3 years, I met someone from the JMDL. Any old timers remember Meri ? I always thought he was a nice guy, and now my impression has been confirmed ! He asked me to say hello to anyone who remembers him. (he made it to Australia, ... he's still a Joni fan, too) -Gerald McNamara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 02:51:45 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: hi from an erstwhile JMDLer This old timer sends greetings to Meri...even if he has left civilization as we know it here in DC for the wilds of Australia. Janet, certified old timer and doubly certified old fart :) At 06:37 AM 6/1/1999 UTC, Gerald McNamara wrote: > > > > At last, after nearly 3 years, I met someone > from the JMDL. > Any old timers remember Meri ? > I always thought he was a nice guy, and now my impression > has been confirmed ! > > He asked me to say hello to anyone who remembers him. > (he made it to Australia, ... he's still a Joni fan, too) > > -Gerald McNamara > > > > > ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #236 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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