From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #231 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, May 27 1999 Volume 04 : Number 231 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Reviewing Taming the Tiger [Nicholas Bates ] Food for thought (NJC) - long and rambling, I'm afraid, it's late! ["Hele] Joni in May Glamour ["Happy The Man" ] Re: martin sexton - sjc now ["P. Henry" ] Re: ashara [Debra Kaufman ] Re: Joni in May Glamour [Don Rowe ] RE: Tal Bachman (NJC) [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Re: Joni in May Glamour [Brian Gross ] TTT Songbooks [michael paz ] Re: Paprika Plains "live" [Bounced Message ] Nick Drake (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Food for thought - long and rambling, I'm afraid, it's [Bounced Messa] JONI VIDEO PAL [Martin Giles ] Re: Nick Drake (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Food for thought - long and rambling, I'm afraid, it's [Don Rowe ] Stevie Nicks NJC [Bounced Message ] San Diego ["Gene Mock" ] Re: Nick Drake (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Food for thought - long and rambling, I'm afraid, it's [Mark Domyanci] (NJC) Attention all Aussies/New Zealanders [Ashara@aol.com] Re: San Diego (NJC) ["Kakki" ] My heartfel thanks to the list [Ginamu@aol.com] Wanna Know How I Got Allot of Balls? (NJC) [mann@chicagonet.net] tix to the NYC Joni's Jazz concert? ["James A. Murray" Subject: Reviewing Taming the Tiger Dear JMDLers, I don't know about you guys but I have kind of been resisting Taming the Tiger - Like but not Love has been my synopsis. The other day I thought, OK, how much do I trust Joni? how much do I believe that she is the greatest? Then why not just let myself go into the record, believe that the way that it flows, the very mix of songs, the whole thing, is a cycle and a gift. I won't force myself to like what I think I don't like (lead balloon, one great boo hoo etc ), I'll just let accept that Joni knows what is best for me! Well it worked, or I should say, its working and I can feel its charms and nuances working their way into my system and it feels good! As Joni said somewhere - "its composed" and I think that makes sense. The more I listen to the arrangements, the more interesting they sound. And reading the interview with Brian Blade at JoniMitchell.com was really helpful too. Maybe I should try this on Turbulent Indigo - don't think I'll ever be able to come round to Not to Blame or Turbulent Indigo itself but you never know. Meanwhile for JMDLers in Sydney, Fish Records have got TTT along with some other great 'fairly' new releases on sale at their shops - I just popped in their today and happened to see them in their ever increasing sale bins. Nicholas in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:45:14 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Food for thought (NJC) - long and rambling, I'm afraid, it's late! Something I've been pondering for quite some time - and I've made it NJC, 'cos I'm not sure! Are you aware of the "Kevin Bacon Phenomenon"? The theory goes, that within seven moves, you can link any two Hollywood actors using Kevin Bacon. It goes something like this: William Hurt and Meryl Streep. As far as I know (I could be wrong), they have never acted together. But William Hurt starred in The Big Chill with Glenn Close (my favourite actress!). Glenn Close starred in Fatal Attraction with Michael Douglas. Michael Douglas starred in The Game with Sean Penn. Sean Penn starred in Dead Man Walking with Susan Sarandon. Susan Sarandon starred in Thelma and Louise with Brad Pitt. Brad Pitt starred in Sleepers with Kevin Bacon, and Kevin Bacon starred in The River Wild with......Meryl Streep! Not sure if I've got that exactly right, but hopefully you see how it works. My point (finally!) is that I've discovered I can do pretty much the same with almost every artist I like, and link them back to Joni! There are a few obscure ones that don't fit, but on the whole, it works! Take Christine McVie. She sang in Fleetwood Mac with Stevie Nicks. David Crosby sang backup vocals on Stevie Nicks' Street Angel, and he's easy to link back to Joni. But what about Jonatha Brooke? No connection (I thought). Then I read the CD notes for 10c Wings, and there's a thank you to Jeff Pevar, who plays in CPR with.....David Crosby! A more obscure one - Louise Goffin (Carole King's daughter). Stevie Nicks wrote a song on her first album, and sings back-up. David Crosby sang on Street Angel......etc., etc. I could go on giving examples all day, but maybe there's a thread here! Take the most obscure artist you can think of, and try and link them back to Joni (with any number of moves)! In some cases I've used pretty tenuous links - like the "thank you" to Jeff Pevar, but sometimes that's all there is! But it's got to be a physical link, ie. they can't just record a Joni song! I guess it's probably because the music industry is pretty "incestuous" in a lot of ways, but I've even managed to find a link between artists in different countries! OK - now that I've reread it, it's probably too obvious, but it's late, and I just wanted to see if anyone else has ever thought about it! Going to bed now! Helen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:37:16 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Joni in May Glamour My wife threw this months glamour at me saying there is your girlfriend. Joni was with Kilauren in an article about adoption, nothing really to do with Joni in the article except and overused photo. Peace, Craig PS: (NJC) On my way to dropping 40 unneeded pounds I had two set backs this week. MRI on my knee for what the doctor said "hey your 40 it's about time something went wrong" He's Fired." and I broke my big toe yesterday playing sand volleyball. Guess I will just have to sit back and listen to some songs. NP: Tal Bachman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 05:52:22 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: martin sexton - sjc now Gina wrote: >>Yes, I'm a fan. I've been hearing Martin Sexton on my favorite radio station for some time now. He spent some time in a live broadcast from their studio once, which I caught and enjoyed. After that broadcast, tickets were given away to his local show and I won two - that was before his release The American. My husband and I loved his show. I have the American and play it frequently. The song Maria is incredibly beautiful musically and lyrically and Martin's passionate delivery makes that song alone worth the price of the album. Though, the whole cd is incredibly good. It's nice to see Martin Sexton mentioned here.>> gina, wow, I wish I lived in your neighborhood! another lister wrote me and said they'd heard his live performance was particularly dynamic. I think Joni would like him too. keep an eye on him; he must be getting noticed by somebody to have 'kootch' producing him. I wouldn't be surprised to see some doing covers of his songs... one that really stick sith me is 'Glory Bound'. on The American he does it with a band but solo acoustic style on Black Sheep and it's *excellent*, imo! pat NP: The Diner - M. Sexton http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:06:21 -0500 From: Debra Kaufman Subject: Re: ashara Thanks, Ashara, for raising the funds for Wally and championing the cause. We all appreciate WB beyond words! I agree, post it to NJC as well. DK **************************************************************** "The end is nothing. The road is all." -- Willa Cather ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:01:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni in May Glamour Happy The Man wrote: > My wife threw this months glamour at me saying there > is your girlfriend. What a hoot! When I brought my "Gershwin's World" home, my wife took one brief glance at it and immediately asked, "So Joni Mitchell's on this?" Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:11:17 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Tal Bachman (NJC) Happy the Man wrote: <<>> How is this? I've heard lots of good things. - --Michael NP: _Hits_ - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:48:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Joni in May Glamour Happy The Man wrote: > > My wife threw this months glamour at me saying there > > is your girlfriend. Don Rowe wrote: > What a hoot! When I brought my "Gershwin's World" > home, my wife took one brief glance at it and > immediately asked, "So Joni Mitchell's on this?" And while watching "You've Got Mail" last weekend, when my wife heard the 2 Joni references made by Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan (the real Joni fan there), she asked me "Is *that* why you wanted to see this movie?" I replied "Well, not just for that." Spouses... what are we going to do with them?? ;-) Take care, Brian np: NPR - Damon Wayans on Radio Times === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" (except the people staying at the Sheraton) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:07:10 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: TTT Songbooks Hello Gang- I have received the first of the TTT songbooks and they look great. Our own Howard Wright did a great job with his guitar section and I plan to dive into that section over the weekend and see if I can improve my technique. My cost on the books are $11.97 + $2.00 freight. I propose that anyone who wants a copy send me two checks. One for $14 for the book(including freight) and one for Wally Breese for $8 (or more if you like) and I will send you the book and forward Wally his checks. I have had three requests so far and I will ship them out in the order for which I receive the checks. Please email me privatly for my snail mail address. Thanks for supporting our girl AND our favorite webmeister. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:30:53 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Paprika Plains "live" From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:15:46 -0400 <> Of course I do David...what better way to start a discussion? ;~) <> My use of the word "Complex" was sort of nebulous...your "impenetrable" is a better word and we're really not in disagreement, cuz what I was implying was that lyrically HOSL is tougher to interpret. DJRD has to be called the most ambitious, if only for PP! <<"Don't Interrupt the Sorrow" is another of my favorites. I've always heard it as being about Christianity's use of the Bible to justify the subjugation of women.>> Great stuff David...I guess I haven't really "listened" to the song even though I've "heard" it a million times. And I forgot to bring my lyric book with me on my travels as well... << "a roomful of glasses" -- I wonder if this is related to "Tethered to a ringing telephone/in a roomful of mirrors" from "Same Situation"?), treating Joni like a waitress ("bring that bottle kindly and I'll pad your purse"),>> Or the roomful of glasses could be the waitress surrounded by dirty dishes, or it could mean that she's under the microscope, always being watched. <> Like I said, I need to spend more time with this record to dig for more gems...in the meantime, Anybody read that Wolfe book and has some comments about its relativity to "Boho", please share! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:14:32 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Nick Drake (NJC) Jacky at : Gertus@aol.com wrote >I was in Oxford on Saturday for only the second time in my life and can >easily visualise the scene. You didn't come across Nick Drake at the same >time did you? No, I wish I had - I believe he was living in Cambridge at that time. His song 'River Man' would have to be one of my Desert Island Discs. I never saw him play live but last year I was invited to a gig at the '12 Bar Club' commemorating what would have been his 50th birthday (had he not died in 1974) - queues right round the block and up the Charing Cross Road. Have you seen http://www.algonet.se/~iguana/DRAKE/DRAKE.html ? PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:45:01 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Food for thought - long and rambling, I'm afraid, it's From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:47:34 -0400 <> Helen, this was also something I wondered early on, and another JMDL'er had said that there had been some previous "Six Degrees of Joni Mitchell" that had been played so it kind of died on the vine, but personally I think it makes for an interesting ongoing thread. I recall one interesting one being Marilyn Manson, who recorded "Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This) which was a Eurythmics song and Annie Lennox covered LOTC. Anyway, if you want to throw out a name or two, I'm always ready to try, as long as it's not TOO obscure... PS I deleted the NJC tag... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:52:52 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: JONI VIDEO PAL Hello folks! I'm a newcomer to the list, though a loonnggttiimme Joni fan. I've also got a longtime problem thet I hope somebody can help me with. I'm trying to find live video footage of JM, in particular from her Shadows & Light tour. I've seen clips from it, so I know it exists. I've also seen for sale at amazon.com a laserdisc, which is probably a concert in it's entirety?. Problem is, I only have VHS -PAL format, (London, England). Can anyone help me with my craving?? Cheers m'deers Martin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:00:10 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Nick Drake (NJC) In a message dated 26/05/99 19:15:23 GMT Daylight Time, pdcmusic@freeuk.com writes: << Have you seen http://www.algonet.se/~iguana/DRAKE/DRAKE.html ? >> Yes, that's a good site, Paul. Did you watch the tv program about Nick which was shown recently? It's wierd to think how popular he's become recently, and sad to think that one of the things that bugged him most was his lack of commercial success. I only recently bought my first Nick Drake album - the compilation "Way to Blue". Don't know how he managed to escape my attention way back then! I just received a compilation tape from another JMDL member which also includes a Drake track. Strange how most Joni fans seem to like him. So how did you come to get the invitation? Regards Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:13:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Food for thought - long and rambling, I'm afraid, it's I remember the "degrees of separation" game we played briefly a few months back. It started when someone wondered if Joni could be linked back to Star Trek. Here's how I worked that one out: Mick Fleetwood made a guest appearence on "Star Trek Next Generation." Stevie Nicks is the lead singer for Fleetwood Mac. Stevie and Don Henley sang "Leather and Lace". Don and Joni sing together on "Snakes and Ladders" on CMIARS. I'm sure someone could put these two even closer than this ... Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:00:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - May 27 1979: Joni performs at the Berkeley Jazz Festival. Pictures and reviews can be found at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/UCJazz79.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:38:31 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Stevie Nicks NJC From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:13:49 -0400 <> And today also happens to be her birthday...so Happy Birthday Stevie! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:41:36 -0700 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: San Diego I going to be in San Diego Thur-Sun, does anyone know where a Joni sighting could happen in that area? If not, any recommendations for some good music (live)? Much appreciated and take care gene ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 00:20:34 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Nick Drake (NJC) >I never saw him play live but last year I was invited to a gig at the '12 >Bar Club' commemorating what would have been his 50th birthday (had he not >died in 1974) Jacky wrote: > So how did you come to get the invitation? The week before I had just finished recording 4 tracks for Caroline Kendall's new album - she was on the bill that night and invited me along - she told me that they were hoping Joe Boyd, Nick's producer, would come - I'm not sure if he did or not - the place was packed solid. >Did you watch the tv program about Nick which was shown recently? Yes, I caught the last half hour - Caroline was the singer shown playing at the 12 Bar at the very end (over the credits, if I remember rightly). PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:22:55 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Food for thought - long and rambling, I'm afraid, it's How 'bout: Mick Fleetwood made a guest appearance on "Star Trek" Stevie Nicks is the lead singer of FM Joni and Stevie sang at Stormy Weather. At 12:13 PM -0700 5/26/99, Don Rowe wrote: >I'm sure someone could put these two even closer than >this ... Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua http://jmdl.com/guitar/mark "This conformity factory is now closed!" -Homer Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:49:26 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: (NJC) Attention all Aussies/New Zealanders Being of short brain span, I forget exactly who is in Australia and New Zealand. Would you all please contact me privately? Thank you ever so much. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:49:46 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: San Diego (NJC) Gene wrote: > I going to be in San Diego Thur-Sun, does anyone know where a Joni sighting > could happen in that area? If not, any recommendations for some good music > (live)? Haven't a clue as to Joni's hangouts but some good stuff is happening in San Diego this week - You are missing the Doobie Brothers tonight at Humphrey's ;-( Tomorrow night is Seal at San Diego State University and Blondie will be there on Saturday night. On Sunday night Elvis Costello will be at the Copley Symphony Hall. Don't miss a side trip to Tijuana while you are down there on the borderline - way too much fun. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:33:45 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: My heartfel thanks to the list Yesterday I accidentally sent out a highly personal letter to the list. As soon as I realized what I had done, I sent out an apology, despite the embarrassment and shame that washed over me. I began to imagine people laughing themselves silly behind their computer screens or rolling their eyes skyward. Instead what I got was a whole bunch of wonderfully warm, gracious and sincere letters of support. You can imagine how I felt. I expressed some very personal and painful feelings to a loved one in a letter which was accidentally distributed to some 600 people who would potentially read it. I felt vulnerable, embarrassed and really, really stupid. Though I am not ashamed of my feelings, I am a very private person and often somewhat shy and reserved in any setting initially. The first letter of support I received was from Les and in very few words, he conveyed the warmth, intelligence and kindness I've seen others here compliment him about. Les assured me that I would receive many kind and reassuring letters. We are indeed fortunate to have him as our list master. He is obviously very proud to be connected with this list and rightfully so. I think for the first time I really feel a part of this community and I can see why it means so much to so many, above and beyond our interest in and love of, Joni Mitchell. What a caring and compassionate group of people you are. To all of you who wrote, I thank you for not judging, for caring, for taking the time to let me know. Because of you, I feel I can hold my head high, continue to read every post (this list means a lot to me) and respond occasionally as I have been. You have, in essence, "been there" for me when I have needed you most. This means a tremendous lot to me, as this list has become one of things I look forward to on a daily basis. Take care and thanks again, Gina P.S. During my "grieving" process over this, I took refuge in TTT. I am in love with it now. In France they say, every day, love puts on a new face. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:02:19 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Wanna Know How I Got Allot of Balls? (NJC) Yeah, I got allot of balls. And you can have them too........a dozen of them free! Go to http://www.chipshot.com Click on 'Click here for details' and then click on 'Get a free dozen golfballs' Click on 'Add to cart' and you'll see a price Click on purchase item and then fill out the form Click on phone in Credit Card since you don't need one Type in the Discount code # 7661437 Confirm your order (should say $0.00) Couldn't resist posting this one! Laura NP: Just a Little Green.......... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:25:37 -0700 From: "James A. Murray" Subject: tix to the NYC Joni's Jazz concert? Can anyone tell me how to get tix to the NYC Joni's Jazz concert in Central Park? "Ticketmonster" pleads ignorance. Please CC: off-list. thanks jimbo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:45:18 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Paprika Plains "live" Now that I've seen the reference to "Don't Interrupt..." having been born in a loft at 4 am, I'm encouraged to offer my own reaction, which is that this particular lyric contains the words (or transformations) of conversations overheard or perhaps participated in. This could have happened in someone's loft at 4 am. The most intriguing line to me is the one you seem to feel should be transcribed as "you're notches, Liberation Doll." Your gloss on this is, approximately, "your politics (and those of all females) are irrelevant to me; the only thing that matters is how many of you I can seduce-and I'll be glad to tell ya' the exact number." I hear it slightly different, somewhat more vulgar: "Your NOTCH is liberation, Doll." That is, some woman has been talking about liberation, perhaps in an idealistic way, and a macho guy answers with a really coarse put-down: notch=indentation=vagina. JM then becomes the woman spoken to and says "and he chains me with that serpent" where serpent=phallus=machismo and chains="renders powerless." The word Ethiopian may suggest that the man doing the chaining is black or acting in a manner associated with black men. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:31:07 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Paprika Plains "live" The most intriguing line to me is the one you seem to feel > should be transcribed as "you're notches, Liberation Doll." Your gloss on > this is, approximately, "your politics (and those of all females) are > irrelevant to me; the only thing that matters is how many of you I can > seduce-and I'll be glad to tell ya' the exact number." > I hear it slightly different, somewhat more vulgar: "Your NOTCH is > liberation, Doll Well I always thought the lyric was 'your notches, Liberation Doll' and that he was referring to the empty wine glasses. In other words he's blaming her for the fact that he's a drunk. The glasses are her 'notches' or points racked up in the name of Women's Lib against his maleness. I never could figure out for sure what 'he chains me with that serpent to that Ethiopian wall' means. I like the theory that it's a reference to the serpent in the Garden of Eden and the blame placed on Eve for 'original sin'. I think on the whole, however, the song is just about a fight between an intelligent, independent woman and the weak asshole she's mistakenly gotten herself involved with. With a lot of social & religious commentary thrown in as a background to their conflict. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #231 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?