From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #205 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, May 7 1999 Volume 04 : Number 205 TapeTree #8 is ready to roll. To sign up go to: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC -- Does NATO = NAZI? --NJC ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: Joni Fest (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Influential Artists NJC [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Joni Fest (NJC) and a note on RENT [TreyCozy@aol.com] Re: Influential Artists NJC [Robert Holliston ] Re: NJC British shows ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: NJC --How NATO is perceived by Serb students -- NJC [catman ] Re: Influential Artists NJC ["Helen M. Adcock" ] joni trivia ["P. Henry" ] Joni trivia question (try again) ["P. Henry" ] Re: NJC --How NATO is perceived by Serb students -- NJC ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: Joni Fest (NJC) and a note on RENT [Ashara@aol.com] Re: NJC --How NATO is perceived by Serb students -- NJC ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: Influential Artists NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joni's Jazz in Central Park [SMEBD@aol.com] Dancin' Clown [Don Rowe ] Re: Influential Artists NJC ["Kakki" ] Dancin' Clown [Medric Faulkner ] Re: Dancin' Clown [RMuRocks@aol.com] RE: Dancin' Clown [Brett Code ] Obscure little references ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Joni trivia question (try again) ["P. Henry" ] RE: Dancin' Clown [Don Rowe ] Re: remove from digest list [RELLIEA@aol.com] Re: British shows (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Favourites lyrics - NJC [Bounced Message ] Obscure loves throughout the ages (NJC) [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Re: Influential Artists NJC [Randy Remote ] Today in Joni History - May 8 [Today in Joni History ] Re: Obscure loves throughout the ages (NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Obscure little references [djp ] Re: Obscure little references [Randy Remote ] RE: Re: Joni Fest (NJC) and a note on RENT [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Re: Obscure little references [Don Rowe ] Jonatha is comin' to town... [RMuRocks@aol.com] NJC-John Mayall and Fleetwood Mac (with Green) [DARICEM@sfpl.lib.ca.us] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 03:07:22 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: NJC -- Does NATO = NAZI? --NJC al_date@email.com has been studying conspiracy theory: <> Since penning Mein Kampf in prison where he belonged Hitler's long-stated goal was to rid Germany of Jews, Gypsies, Gays & like "undesirables." This was no after-thought! Nobody's calling for the confiscation of guns in America (except from criminals & juveniles). All we're asking is that they be licensed & regulated like a car or a Teddybear for Christ's sake!! E.T. NP: NIN, Big Man With A Gun (ohh, baby!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 09:22:05 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: NJC - need song title A friend of mine heard a country-sounding song on the radio the other day, sung by a man, but didn't catch the title. The lyric she remembers is: "I'm walking on cobblestones" repeated several times in the course of the song. Can anybody help out here? Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 09:56:45 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Joni Fest (NJC) On Mon, 03 May 1999 16:53:02 +0000 michael paz wrote: > I am still looking for a guest list to the Labor Day > Extravaganza. Marian are you coming?? I would really like to and am trying to work it out. If possible, I will be there. I hope you can make it Michael - and not just because of your nifty VG-8! It would be great if some of the other guitarists can make it this time: Terry M, Mark D., Sue McNamara, Bill Dollinger, Pearl, Claud, Bob Hannah, John Lasater, Michaelb (Australia's not *that* far away!), Ken Slarty, TreyCozy, Cathy (raymond), Howard Wright, Pat Hillis, Guy Brown, John van Tiel, Tom Ross, WallyK, Juliette, Phil Griffiths, Al Date, Marcel, Les Irvin and WallyB. It's such a wonderful experience to play and sing Joni's music with others who share the same love and delight in it. It's a great learning opportunity for beginning guitarists, too. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 02:09:06 -0600 From: evian Subject: Influential Artist (NJC) > Okay, I'll jump on this, because I know that even if I > get stomped, evian will at least come to my defense! > Would either of these ladies have existed without > Stevie Nicks? Oooh I think not ... > Yes!!!!! My little Stevie always gets dumped on, but y'all gotta admit, she was somewhat of an influence on many, not just the "biggies" like Debbie Harry, but I somehow see a lot of Stevie in Aimee Mann, don't ask me why. To turn this whole "structural" argument a bit, I also think that there couldn't be Stevie without Linda Rondstadt. Shall we use this thread to get to the center of female singers? As for Madonna, I am sitting here trying to think of who she could have influenced... and I am really puzzled. The only person that came to mind was Shannon, but then I remembered that "Holiday" and "Let the Music Play" were released at the same time. What she did do, however, was, although she didn't forge new ground per se at the time, was to bring early 80's funk/dance music into the forefront. I am trying to think of what I was listening to then. There was a lot of great dance music coming out at the time, like "I.O.U." by Freez, Shannon, the Gap Band, Nucleus, etc., but Madonna was the only one who took it top ten with her first album. True, Shannon also made the top ten, but sadly it was only a one time thing. After Madonna hit the top ten, dance music really started rolling, and acts such as Midnight Star, Starpoint, TaMara and the Seen, Face to Face, etc. got some airplay. Although many people think this as a big glutch in music, I found it exciting to hear these people on the radio finally. So... Madonna maybe influenced.... the 12" single generation? Dance music and 12" singles really became contenders after she broke out. Her decision to only release "Into the Groove" as a 12" single was genious, IMO. I still think it wasn't her music that makes her a big innovator, but rather the old pop culture icon thing. She pushed the envelope many ways, good and bad, but that would take another thread to even begin talking about it.... Ok, enough rambling.... to quote Stevie, "it's late"! Evian np: cat and dog yowling and howling, and slobbering all over each other.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 01:00:07 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni Fest (NJC) Marian wrote: > It would be great if some of the other guitarists can make it this time: > Terry M, Mark D., Sue McNamara, Bill Dollinger, Pearl, Claud, Bob Hannah, > John Lasater, Michaelb (Australia's not *that* far away!), Ken Slarty, > TreyCozy, Cathy (raymond), Howard Wright, Pat Hillis, Guy Brown, John van > Tiel, Tom Ross, WallyK, Juliette, Phil Griffiths, Al Date, Marcel, Les > Irvin and WallyB. That would be way incredible. I'm working on recruiting Bill Dollinger and *his* VG-8 as we speak ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 21:42:15 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Influential Artists NJC In a message dated 5/6/99 8:21:04 PM Central Daylight Time, mark-n-travis@worldnet.att.net writes: << Before those women came along was there really such a thing as a female rock-n-roll singer? >> Bessie Smith...Big Mama Thornton (Hound Dog)...Billie H., All the blues/jazz singers from the 20's/30's/40's that created the attitude and belted those 12-bar tunes that paved the way for all the greats you mentioned... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 04:31:36 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Fest (NJC) and a note on RENT In a message dated 5/7/99 1:14:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << > It would be great if some of the other guitarists can make it this time: > Terry M, Mark D., Sue McNamara, Bill Dollinger, Pearl, Claud, Bob Hannah, > John Lasater, Michaelb (Australia's not *that* far away!), Ken Slarty, > TreyCozy, Cathy (raymond), Howard Wright, Pat Hillis, Guy Brown, John van > Tiel, Tom Ross, WallyK, Juliette, Phil Griffiths, Al Date, Marcel, Les > Irvin and WallyB. >> You guys have no idea how much I wish I could be there. I fear I'm stuck here in San Francisco until further notice. Did I tell you all that I am presently here in the Bay area playing Mark in the musical RENT? Since this is a NJC post, and a musical environment to boot, what think you all of this hyped super-musical "HAIR of the 90s"? Any opinions? I'd be curious to know. And don't worry about hurting my feelings. I've been doing it for just over year - it's starting to ooze from my pores - and I have heard it all. I'd be interested to see if there are any Joni/RENT folks out there. ha ha. Always, Trey np - Cherokee Louise (LOVE this song, but isn't is a BITCH to play?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 01:53:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Holliston Subject: Re: Influential Artists NJC To paraphrase Mark: > Before Janis Joplin, Tina Turner, and (drum roll please) Grace Slick came > along, was there really such a thing as a female rock and roll singer. And Kakki replied: > Mark, I've wracked my brains and I'm stumped to think of any other > predecessor. All the girls were doing soul, R&B or the girl group thing >before > Gracie, Tina and Janis. Got to give a special mention to Dusty, too. While > not a rock and roller, she definitely brought big individual presence > to the table. Speaking of big individual presences, several of the Beatles listed Dinah Washington as an early influence, and of course Janis revered Bessie Smith (who I believe was inducted into the R&R HofF as an "early influence"). I think some artists have been influential without leaving a clear paper trail - and without being bona fide rock and rollers - like the late LaVern Baker and the still active Ruth Brown (or the late Big Joe Turner and the still active Ray Charles). Which brings me to one of my favourite box sets ever: Atlantic R&B, which can keep my middle-aged butt on the dance floor all night... time to put a spit shine on my dancing shoes, I guess ;-) Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 22:48:19 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: NJC British shows Wally wrote: >Wasn't Joanna Lumley the woman in The New Avengers? Now that's a British >series that will be a LEGEND for ever [ I don't mean the NEW avengers but >The Avengers, especially the Diana Rigg seasons] . You are absolutely correct about Joanna Lumley being in the NEW Avengers. And did you ever see "Sapphire and Steel"? That was one of my favourite shows as a kid - Joanna Lumley and David McCallum (The Invisible Man, and The Man From Uncle). I don't know if anyone's heard of Ruby Wax (the English jimdlers will have) but she has her own talk/comedy show in Britain which is very funny (although she's originally from Chicago) - she's good friends with French, Saunders and Lumley. Anyway she did a great sketch where she "liberates" Joanna Lumley from a sanitarium - where she's suffering nervous exhaustion, apparently - and tries to "sell" her to every producer at the BBC as the Joanna Lumley of old, complete with short, bobbed, blonde wig, hot pants, plastic knee boots, etc., while Joanna dives over (falls over) the bonnets of cars with an imaginary gun. Very tongue-in-cheek, and very funny! Sorry, I'm rambling - I drank far too many Heinekens tonight! Helen NP - Indigo Girls - Power of Two (what a GREAT song) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 12:03:02 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC --How NATO is perceived by Serb students -- NJC It is NOT one person but many who have muredered the Albians. This is what happens when people do nothing and allow anything to happen. It is foolish to believe that just one man is responsible for the atrocities. al_date@email.com wrote: > > > > > >Dear friends, > > >We are Students Union of Serbia and we have decided to take this > > >desperate step of writing to people around the world about suffering of > > >our people. Events we are describing You in this letter took place in > > >last 5 days and these events represents the worst kind of atrocities our > > >country suffered since Nazis attacked us in second World War. You can > > >find pictures and films of everything written here on our web-site > > >www.students.org.yu and we are willing to answer to all Your comments > > >and questions to union@students.org.yu. > > No one has answered my question: HOW WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR CITY TO BE BOMBED BACK TO THE STONEAGE FOR SOMETHING THAT BILL CLINTON HAD DONE? > > ----------------------------------------------- > FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com > Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 12:10:47 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Ab Fab (NJC) > > > I don't know much about comedy but I assumed that using stereotypes can be a form of > humour? Like satire. yes but in this program he is there purely to be laughed at. Whether or not the character is gay makes no difference. He is perceived as such and his behaviour and mannerisms are exaggerrated forms of some gay mens mannerisms, and are being used to make people luagh AT him and not with him. At least that is how a few of us here see it. It does seem to just perpetuate myths about gay man.bw colin > > > I never took it seriously and just enjoyed it's sense of fun. > > Vanessa > > N.P. suburbia. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 23:16:23 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Influential Artists NJC Kakki wrote: >Mark, I've wracked my brain and I'm stumped to think of any other >predecessor. All the girls were doing soul, R&B or the girl group thing >before Gracie, Tina and Janis. Got to give a special mention to Dusty, too. >While not a rock and roller, she definitely brought big individual presence >to the table. I've also been racking my brains to try and think of any other "influential" women rockers, but come up with the same list. I also thought of Woodstock, but the only women I can find that were there (since Joni didn't quite make it) are Joan Baez, Melanie, Janis Joplin and Grace Slick - and I'd categorise the first two as folk singers not rockers. I realise that Woodstock is not the be-all and end-all of who's who in the music world, but I did count thirty-two acts on the web page, and only 4 women were among them. Rock and roll was just not a women's province prior to the 1970's, after which they started to find their niche, as folk crossed over into folk-rock then rock. Most prominent women singers were associated with other forms of music, like blues, jazz, folk, even pop (Dusty, Dionne, Diana Ross, Martha & the Vandellas, etc.). That's not to say there weren't a lot of women performers, but I have a feeling they were never classed as equals with the men "rockers" of the time - maybe in popularity, but not as serious performers. Thank God there are so many serious, enduring women performers out there now as inspiration for the next generation. I'm talking (of course) about the Spice Girls, Billie, Brittany, ..... Sorry, I'll get serious! I really mean (IMHO) Joni, Stevie Nicks, Bonnie Raitt, Carole King, Indigo Girls, Jonatha Brooke (who I've just discovered - and I think she will endure) among others. And while I'm on the subject of women musicians, has anyone out there (outside New Zealand) ever heard Shona Laing? She's a New Zealander, who spent some time in England, before coming home and hitting the charts here with several great albums - great lyricist and musician. She had a hit with a song called "Glad I'm Not a Kennedy". Worth checking out, if you get the chance. Helen NP - Sheryl Crow - Keep On Growing ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 04:28:56 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: joni trivia there should be a prize but... I was looking at the glossary project link at the top of the page and this came to mind... anybody know who the 'Wizard of Is' refers to? pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 04:41:51 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Joni trivia question (try again) who does the "Wizard Of Is" refer to? Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:45:50 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: NJC --How NATO is perceived by Serb students -- NJC catman wrote responding : > > It is NOT one person but many who have muredered the Albians. This is what happens when people do nothing and allow anything to happen. It is > foolish to believe that just one man is responsible for the atrocities. > > al_date@email.com wrote: > > > > > > > > >Dear friends, > > > >We are Students Union of Serbia and we have decided to take this > > > >desperate step of writing to people around the world about suffering of > > > >our people. All people down there in the Balkans have one big problem: They keep on talking for hours about what atrocities the other ethnicities have done to them, yet they are totally blind about their own share of the mess. What is happening is definitely tragic for the Serbs, but before I take one of their statements seriously, I want to see that very person admitting to the horrendous crimes which Serbs have been committing within the last 7 years for the Serbs and in the name of the Serbic nation. Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 09:07:22 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Fest (NJC) and a note on RENT Trey, aka "Mark" asks: << Did I tell you all that I am presently here in the Bay area playing Mark in the musical RENT? Since this is a NJC post, and a musical environment to boot, what think you all of this hyped super-musical "HAIR of the 90s"? Any opinions? >> I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this musical!!!!!!! When it came to Boston for the first time a few years ago, I saw it three times! I fell in love with it the first time, brought 2 of my kids back the second time, and a friend the third time. I have to say, I am not one to go back and see something over and over again like that, but I couldn't bear to think of my kids and friend missing out on such a wonderful musical. It is loud, shocking, heart-wrenching, beautiful, ugly, and REAL!! I laughed, cried, smiled, held my breath and cried some more! I wanted to take every single one of this "motley crew" home! (Mark, Mark, are you there? Are you screening your calls? It's "Ashara" {Mom}.) Trey, you MUST come to Jonifest, and sing all the Rent songs, or we'll have to move Jonifest to San Francisco!!! Will you be traveling to Boston with this show, or are you only SF based? To everyone that hasn't seen this musical, whether you love it, or hate it, it's a must-see for the experience alone! Hugs, Ashara NP: (In my head: All the songs from Rent!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 15:18:36 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: NJC --How NATO is perceived by Serb students -- NJC I wrote: > All people down there in the Balkans have one big problem: They keep on > talking for hours about what atrocities the other ethnicities have done > to them, yet they are totally blind about their own share of the mess. > What is happening is definitely tragic for the Serbs, but before I take > one of their statements seriously, I want to see that very person > admitting to the horrendous crimes which Serbs have been committing > within the last 7 years for the Serbs and in the name of the Serbic > nation. > to which I add: I've done quite a bit of research on Serbian history and Serbian nationalism in recent days, and having done so I'm quite relieved about our bombing campaign. The truth is: the MAJORITY of Serbs have ownly gradually different viewpoints on Kosovo than their government. They agree with the suppression of Albanians living there (90 % of Kosovo's population) and they certainly wouldn't mind all Albanians to leave. Milosevich would never have advanced to the country's top position, hadn't he appealed to ALREADY EXISTING, deeply rooted feelings of hatred and and disrespect for other ethnicities. 15 % of Serbs have voted for the party of Mr. Seslj, who is the leader of one of these paramilitary militias which are doing the most barbaric crimes. People always get the government they deserve. It WAS true for Nazi Germany, and it IS true for today's Serbia. If people are suffering there it is either their own fault, or simply bad luck -- they live with the bad guys and so they suffer with the bad guys. The Serbian government is using the country's resources for murdering, raping and torturing hundreds of thousands innocent people. NATO is trying to take away their murder tools. If they destroy a couple of fingers in doing so, it is regrettable, but inevitable. I agree 100 % with what Colin has been saying. Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 06:40:28 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Influential Artists NJC > > << Before those women came along was > there really such a thing as a female rock-n-roll singer? >> > > Bessie Smith...Big Mama Thornton (Hound Dog) also 'Ball and Chain' ...Billie H., > > All the blues/jazz singers from the 20's/30's/40's that created the attitude > and belted those 12-bar tunes that paved the way for all the greats you > mentioned... I certainly agree that these women were the forerunners, but I was talking specifically about rock & roll. To my knowledge these women didn't sing rock & roll and Billie wasn't really a 12-bar blues singer, even though she occasionally sang those types of blues songs. But you're right about the attitude. And Janis, Tina & Grace were all definitely influenced by these women. But I still maintain that J, T & G they were the first women vocalists to sing r & r. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 09:49:36 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: (NJC) Count off......1......2....... Since so many people have asked about who will be at Jonifest '99, should we have a preliminary count? If everyone who is interested in attending (even remotely) would send me (privately) an e-mail with your interest, I'll tally them, and let the list know. Please choose from one of the following: 1) I'm definitely going to be there, even if I have to crawl! 2) I'm highly interested, and the chances are very good that I'll be attending. 3) I'm interested, but it's a long-shot. 4) Waaaah!!!!!!!!! I want to go, but I can't!!!!!!!!!! Reminders: For more information about this year's Fest, send a blank message to: info-laborday@jmdl.com To check out the fun we had at LAST YEAR'S Fest, go to: http://www.jmdl.com/gallery/party9809.htm To sign up for the Labor Day Jonifest seperate mailing list: http://www.jmdl.com/lists/ Hugs, Ashara {Who is really looking forward to a big crowd this year!} ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 06:57:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Joni trivia question (try again) - ---"Pat Henry" wrote: > who does the "Wizard Of Is" refer to? Could it be Werner Erhard, founder of est? Does anyone know if Joni did the est training? Take care, Brian, getting ready for a wonderful journey west np: DJRD here at my desk on a rainy Friday in NJ === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:34:08 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni trivia question (try again) In a message dated 5/7/99 9:16:08 AM Central Daylight Time, briangross@rocketmail.com writes: << "Pat Henry" wrote: > who does the "Wizard Of Is" refer to? >> Pat, do you have the lyrics? Maybe if you post them it'll trigger some clues. Of course, Brian's guess was a great one! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 03:37:31 +0300 From: j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi Subject: RE: (jc) central park > Special JMDL Sheebaland correspondent Patrick Leader filed this > report from the front lines: > > < Jane Siberry will join band leader Vernon Reid and fellow guest > vocalists Chaka Khan>> > > !!!!!! > > Chaka doing "Hejira" live? Is it a possibility?!? Most certainly. A couple of years ago there was a small newsbit about Chaka in Billboard (if I remember correctly), that she would be recording with Arty and one of the tracks either would be "Hejira" or that she had already recorded that (I can't remember). I expected to find that track on "Come 2 My House", but it's not there. Then I thought it would be a B-side on some of the singles, but so far I've seen no singles... - --jussi NP: Alanis - SFIJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 08:10:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Influential Artists NJC - --- "Helen M. Adcock" wrote: > Sorry, I'll get serious! I really mean (IMHO) Joni, > Stevie Nicks, Bonnie > Raitt, Carole King, Indigo Girls, Jonatha Brooke > (who I've just discovered - > and I think she will endure) among others. > NP - Sheryl Crow - Keep On Growing > Good points, all. Interesting that you are NP, but didn't mention Ms. Crow -- who for my dos centavos is really wearing the R&R tiara these days. I mean, who else is out there with Bonnie Raitt's smokiness and John Hiatt's lyrical sensibiilities? Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:20:07 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz in Central Park Does anyone know where advance tickets can be purchased? Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 09:08:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Dancin' Clown Why is it that this little ditty just grabs me and won't let go? Bob Muller's just one of many who're gonna disagree with me, but sorry guy, this is an incredibly fantastic little romp. Attempting to recast it would be akin to putting Joe Pesci in "The Big Chill" -- and that just ain't happening. Give me Billy Idol and Tom Petty any day. And hey, just because SIQUOMB doesn't mean those long blonde locks can't be let down once and a while. Long live "Twisted", "Blue Motel Room", "Smokin'", "Raised on Robbery", "Crazy Cries of Love", "Ray's Dad's Cadillac" and the much-maligned "Dancin' Clown." Sincerely, Larry Klein (alias Don Rowe) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 09:33:24 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Influential Artists NJC Mark wrote: >And Janis, Tina & Grace were all >definitely influenced by these women. But I still maintain that J, T >& G they were the first women vocalists to sing r & r. Can't think of any others, except maybe an honorable mention for Bonnie Bramlett. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:02:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Medric Faulkner Subject: Dancin' Clown Chalk Mark came along at a time when I was seriously ill after an exposure to Dursban pesticide. The entire album, Dancin' Clown in particular, lightened up my heavy load. Medric Faulkner _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 12:59:07 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Dancin' Clown Don/Larry gushes: << Why is it that this little ditty just grabs me and won't let go? Bob Muller's just one of many who're gonna disagree with me, but sorry guy, this is an incredibly fantastic little romp. >> Truth be told, Don, it's got a nice drivin' little beat and is not totally without its charm. When I first put CMIARS on tape, it wouldn't all fit on a 45 min. side so I deleted "The Tea-Leaf Prophecy". However, the more I listened to DC the more I didn't like it. Rockin' beat notwithstanding, the melody isn't much, there's nothing really interesting instrumentally (Steve Stevens COULD'VE done a lot more, I guess Joni reined him in, or maybe he was just there as a favor to Billy Idol). Then you have the lyrics...ho hum. A little snapshot really, characters you can't really identify with (Like Juan & Freddy in "No Apologies). <> Me too, Petty on any of his solo or Heartbreakers records and Idol singing "Rebel Yell...here they just seem like Joni trying to be trendy and the feel (to me) is a sense of awkwardness that even they sense they don't belong. <> Amen to all that, Bro!! And don't let my opinion stop you from groovin' and dancin', clown! :~D And who knows, maybe someday, I'll be able to hear it with your sense of enjoyment! Bob NP: Dancin' Clown (in your honor Dude) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:14:56 -0600 From: Brett Code Subject: RE: Dancin' Clown Don's got it right again. I, too, like a little fun with my Joni Mitchell. She can do it all, and we can dance. I LOVE Dancing Clown. Don, is it too early to add Lead Balloon to your list, or has it not been sufficiently maligned yet? And what about the ever-popular Chelsea Morning? Brett - ---------- From: Don Rowe[SMTP:dgrowe227@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 1999 10:08 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Dancin' Clown Why is it that this little ditty just grabs me and won't let go? Bob Muller's just one of many who're gonna disagree with me, but sorry guy, this is an incredibly fantastic little romp. Attempting to recast it would be akin to putting Joe Pesci in "The Big Chill" -- and that just ain't happening. Give me Billy Idol and Tom Petty any day. And hey, just because SIQUOMB doesn't mean those long blonde locks can't be let down once and a while. Long live "Twisted", "Blue Motel Room", "Smokin'", "Raised on Robbery", "Crazy Cries of Love", "Ray's Dad's Cadillac" and the much-maligned "Dancin' Clown." Sincerely, Larry Klein (alias Don Rowe) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:36:10 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Obscure little references Kakki wrote >Finding these little liftings from Haley and the Everly's has got me >intrigued as to what other obscure little references Joni has made in her >lyrics. How about this one - from Shakespeare. I remember I jumped when I heard this! Thought you might enjoy the whole passage. Julius Caesar Act 3, Scene 1 CASSIUS I could be well moved, if I were as you: If I could pray to move, prayers would move me: But I am constant as the northern star, Of whose true-fix'd and resting quality There is no fellow in the firmament. The skies are painted with unnumber'd sparks, They are all fire and every one doth shine, But there's but one in all doth hold his place: So in the world; 'tis furnish'd well with men, And men are flesh and blood, and apprehensive; Yet in the number I do know but one That unassailable holds on his rank, Unshaked of motion: and that I am he, Let me a little show it, even in this; That I was constant Cimber should be banish'd, And constant do remain to keep him so. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 11:13:24 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Joni trivia question (try again) Bob, wish I did! as I've mentioned a couple times in past posts, this was one of the songs Joni took the time to teach me but, since she used the chords and melody from L. Cohen's 'Suzanne' and I happened to have the Judy Collins 'In My Life' album at the time and was more interested in adding THAT song to my sets, I only learned the chords and ran with it... I'm not going to give the answer yet as I want to wait and see if anyone else has the answer... (perhaps our beloved historian, simon?) and no, it's not Werner Erhard... pat NP: For Free http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html - -- On Fri, 7 May 1999 10:34:08 RMuRocks wrote: >In a message dated 5/7/99 9:16:08 AM Central Daylight Time, >briangross@rocketmail.com writes: > ><< "Pat Henry" wrote: > > who does the "Wizard Of Is" refer to? >> > >Pat, do you have the lyrics? Maybe if you post them it'll trigger some clues. >Of course, Brian's guess was a great one! > >Bob > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:24:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: Dancin' Clown Making even more joni-fun, Brett asks: > Don, is it too early to add Lead Balloon to your > list, or has it not been sufficiently maligned yet? > And what about the ever-popular Chelsea Morning? > Not a bit -- "Lead Balloon" has been more than sufficiently pooh-poohed! In fact, I can't believe I left it off to begin with ... ditto "Chelsea Morning" - -- and as long as we're lengthening the list -- I shouldn't neglect "Barandgrill", "Blond in the Bleachers" or "Underneath the Streetlight". Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 14:25:21 EDT From: RELLIEA@aol.com Subject: Re: remove from digest list ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 14:35:05 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: British shows (NJC) Someone wrote:- <> Yes, I think she made her name in that show. She is a fine actress as well as being a very clever lady. Just recently she has appeared in a number of straight roles on British TV and I think she's up for an award for one of them. "Ab Fab" was what really resurrected her career though. I think she's great. Not as great as this list though! I thought"Ab Fab" was a brilliant series but getting a little tired towards the end. One comedy series the British public never tires of seeing is "Fawlty Towers" with John Cleese. They only made about 12 episodes but every one was a classic. I read recently that "Only Fools and Horses" is going to hit the US soon too but they are having to make a few modifications. Don't know how it will go down over there because it's very English, but I love it. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 11:05:44 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Favourites lyrics - NJC Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:55:15 -0400 From: Jeanne Whitlock >"I'll jump to my conclusions, but I'll leap to your defense.." Great line, from Jonatha Brooke, Blood From a Stone on 10cent wings -- It's cool to see so many Jonatha Brooke fans on the list. She's coming to the Detroit area soon--I can't wait!! Jeanne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:58:58 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: Obscure loves throughout the ages (NJC) My list: '50s Ruth Brown: OK, she wasn't at all obscure at the time. In fact, she was a huge star. But I feel somehow that history has forgotten her. She was as responsible as anybody for speeding up blues into R&B, and her excited shrieks foretold Janis et. al. I recommend _Miss Rhythm_ as an excellent two-disc compilation of her work. While I'm at it, I *HIGHLY* recommend the cast recording to _Black and Blue_, a Broadway musical for which Ruth won a Tony in the early '90s. Her voice is about two octaves lower and three times as expressive now as it was in the '50s. When she sings, "I'm a woman. I'm a ball of fire," the vocal fry on the last word just suspends you in midair. Thrilling. '60s Nobody!! I need some help here for sure. '70s Horace Andy: I first fell in love with his voice on a couple of Massive Attack tracks: "Hymn on the Big Wheel" and "One Love." I stumbled across a '70s reggae recording of his entitled _You Are My Angel_ in a cutout bin a few months ago. His tenor needles and caresses the moody minor-key melodies. The sound isn't so great, but if you can cut through the hiss of Bessie Smith's transcendant sides you can handle this. The Raincoats: This all-girl late '70s experimental punk band was a favorite of Kurt Cobain's and Kim Gordon's of Sonic Youth. Their music is an acquired taste, to be sure, but there is something about the shambling female choruses over jagged violin that just works for me. David--your recent discovery of the Shaggs should prepare you for the Raincoats quite nicely. I recommend their self-titled debut. '80s 100 Flowers: Their early '80s post-punk reminds me a lot of then-contemporary R.E.M. in double-time or Husker Du without the feedback. Their sound also recalls Elvis Costello at times, but with chimier guitars and a more idiosyncratic vocalist. His dramatic range is quite large, including a nasal revenge-of-the-nerds drone in one song and canine yelps in another. Some of their songs are accessible and others more "experimental" (to be diplomatic), but their quirky chord changes and often-hummable melodies make their compilation _100 Years of Pulchritude_ a solid buy. '90s Bahamadia: My favorite female rapper besides the obvious, Bahamadia has a very unique and compelling voice. She often sounds as if she's chewing her words, and you just wish you were a piece of gum. She grew in the same Philadelphia scene that produced the Roots, and they help out here. Her strength is summed up in the title of one of her standout tracks: "Wordplay". With a gift for the ROTFL-pun and good taste in jazzy East Coast lazy-on-the-beat production, she weaves inventive stories on a variety of topics usually unaddressed in hip-hop. Her album _Kollage_ is currently on clearance at http://www.columbiahouse.com/web for only $ .99 plus shipping, for a total of $3.87. Get it. Kristine W: A former Miss America candidate who can actually muster some soul, Kristine W has a husky and elastic voice that could drive a truck off a cliff. Her album _Land of the Living_ includes '90s-style cabaret and house classics "One More Try" and the title track. A very fag-friendly album. :-) Her album is also on clearance for the same price at the address above. - --Michael NP: Horace Andy, _You Are My Angel_ - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 12:51:09 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Influential Artists NJC RMuRocks@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/6/99 8:21:04 PM Central Daylight Time, > mark-n-travis@worldnet.att.net writes: > > << Before those women came along was > there really such a thing as a female rock-n-roll singer? >> Etta James > > > Bessie Smith...Big Mama Thornton (Hound Dog)...Billie H., > > All the blues/jazz singers from the 20's/30's/40's that created the attitude > and belted those 12-bar tunes that paved the way for all the greats you > mentioned... > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 13:55:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - May 8 1996: Joni is honored in Sweden with the 1996 Polar Music Prize. Read all about it and see a photo at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/PolarPrize96.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 12:58:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Obscure loves throughout the ages (NJC) > 100 Flowers: Their early '80s post-punk reminds me > a lot of Husker Du without the feedback. So are you saying they sound like solo Bob Mould? ;-) I gotta admit, this description gave me quite chuckle, since the Huskers were my defense against the hair band invasion, or the bombshelter from the Journey "Escape" fallout, whichever you prefer. Well done! Don Rowe (who still owns "Escape" and plays it with great relish on rare occasions ... so simmer down all you Steve Perry-ites ... yeah, I know you're out there) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 13:02:49 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Re: Influential Artists NJC Debra wrote: <<>> What do you think of it? <<>> I would agree--Prince is the most influential artist of the '80s. But I think Madonna has been influential, hugely in the pop culture arena, but to a lesser extent in music as well. <<>> Well, some have already pointed out the less illustrious and more obvious examples: Spice Girls, Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys et. al. Any artist that draws heavily from black sounds and glosses them with a sophisticated pop sheen owes her a debt, from Janet Jackson and Terence Trent D'Arby to the poppier artists named above. I'd also credit Madonna for the lyrical frankness of artists like Liz Phair, who has specifically mentioned Madonna as a big influence on her. She shows up in strange places, too. Mike Watt, formerly of seminal postpunk band the Minutemen, fronts a serious Madonna tribute band. DC local indie group the Rondelles do a fabulous punk cover of "Like a Prayer." Rachid, son of one of Kool and the Gang, just released his debut album and named his influences as Madonna and Sonic Youth. Talk about an interview that made me wish I liked his album better!! Anyway, musically I wouldn't say Madonna was the most influential of the '80s, but certainly the best and most representative of the most typical sound of that period. That said, she has been musicall influential to an extent. - --Michael NP: Kristine W, _Land of the Living_ - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 13:06:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Today in Joni History - May 8 > 1996: Joni is honored in Sweden with the 1996 Polar > Music Prize. And who said dropping Bergman's name in a song wouldn't get you somewhere someday? Well, whoever it was, this'll show 'em. Don Rowe ;-) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 16:36:29 -0400 From: djp Subject: Re: Obscure little references At 06:36 PM 5/7/99 +0100, "Paul Castle" wrote: >Kakki wrote >>Finding these little liftings from Haley and the Everly's has got me >>intrigued as to what other obscure little references Joni has made in her >>lyrics. > >How about this one - from Shakespeare. > But I am constant as the northern star, In which of willy the shake's plays is the simile "like a ruby in an Ethiope's ear" used? djp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:05:10 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Obscure little references djp wrote: > At 06:36 PM 5/7/99 +0100, "Paul Castle" wrote: > >Kakki wrote > >>Finding these little liftings from Haley and the Everly's has got me > >>intrigued as to what other obscure little references Joni has made in her > >>lyrics. > > > >How about this one - from Shakespeare. > > But I am constant as the northern star, > > In which of willy the shake's plays is the simile "like a ruby in an > Ethiope's ear" used? > > djp Two more trivie: Where did the "slings and arrows of a rageous romance?" line come from? And who dubbed Shakespeare "Willy The Shake" in the first place, and why did he say he was called that? RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 14:07:59 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Re: Joni Fest (NJC) and a note on RENT Trey asked: <<>> I think the plot is weak, but there is a lot of wonderful music in it. I'm especially impressed by how well a wide variety of genres of pop music are executed. And the "I'll Cover You" gospel-esque reprise just kills me. I want it played at my wedding if I ever have one. :-) - --Michael, wondering if JMDLers get comps when they visit SF NP: De La Soul, _Stakes is High_ - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 14:15:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Obscure little references > Two more trivie: > Where did the "slings and arrows of a rageous > romance?" line > come from? Hamlet -- "whether tis better to endure the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" I think is the original line. > And who dubbed Shakespeare "Willy The Shake" in the > first > place, and why did he say he was called that? > RR > No earthly idea, much as I'd love to give Joan the credit -- was it Elvis Costello? Hee hee, Bob Muller's gonna get paranoid if I keep picking on him like this ... Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:41:23 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Jonatha is comin' to town... Jeanne says: << It's cool to see so many Jonatha Brooke fans on the list. She's coming to the Detroit area soon--I can't wait!! >> And she's coming to Greenville SC to play my favorite little intimate club - I should be able to get an autograph and some conversation. Bonnie Raitt's also coming to town, playing a 2500 seat concert hall with acoustics to die for... Looks like I picked the wrong month to save money! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 15:24:49 -0700 From: DARICEM@sfpl.lib.ca.us Subject: NJC-John Mayall and Fleetwood Mac (with Green) In 1969, I saw both Mayall and MAc at the Bath (England) Blues Festival. John M has always been one of my favorite English blues artists; this show he did California for one of the first times. The MAc did a great show, but one of my best memories was a group called Chicken shack with a lead singer named Christine Perfect (soon to be McVie). That was a wonderful rock summer in England; Bath, then the Hyde Park Stones free concert, and the Plumpton (going on while Woodstock was happening), Groupswould play there, (like the Who) and then fly over to Woodstock. Darice ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #205 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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