From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #202
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
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JMDL Digest           Wednesday, May 5 1999           Volume 04 : Number 202



TapeTree #8 is ready to roll. To sign up go to:
http://www.jmdl.com/trading
-------
Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project.
Send a blank message to <info-glossary@jmdl.com> for all the details.
-------
The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more.
-------
The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
==========

TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
  NJCRe: JMDL Digest V4 #200        [catman <catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk>]
  Talkin' 'bout the ear              ["Eric Taylor" <ewwtaylor@adelphia.net>]
  Joni's Jazz in Central Park                                [JRMCo1@aol.com]
  NJC amy                                         ["Tube" <ramnix@pronet.it>]
  Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC)        [Jason Long <jase@bconnex.net>]
  Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC)  [Vince Lavieri <revrvl@pathwaynet.co]
  Fwd: [NJC] Today in Joni History -  May 5                 [MDESTE1@aol.com]
  Re: (jc) central park                                      [Dflahm@aol.com]
  CSN revisited - some Joni trivia                            [MGVal@aol.com]
  Re: Joni's Jazz in Central Park                            [Dflahm@aol.com]
  RE: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC)               [mwyarbro@zzapp.org]
  Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC)                       [Dflahm@aol.com]
  RE: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC)               [mwyarbro@zzapp.org]
  RE: (jc) central park                                  [mwyarbro@zzapp.org]
  NJC Spring in the Midwest                  [Diana Duncan <dduncan@ipa.net>]
  The Three Great Stimulants                 [Don Rowe <dgrowe227@yahoo.com>]
  AB FAB in Britain (NJC)                                [TerryM2442@aol.com]
  Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s)  (NJC)     [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
  Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s)  (NJC)     [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
  Re[4]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC        [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
  RE: racism in the music industry  (NJC and long)       [mwyarbro@zzapp.org]
  Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s)  (NJC)     [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
  Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s)  (NJC)  [jan gyn <jgyn@muse.sfusd.k12.]
  NJC RE: My 5/Turntable question (NJC)  [Jenaya Dawe <Jenaya@playnetwork.co]
  Re: AB FAB in Britain (NJC)       [catman <catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk>]
  NJC Re[3]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s)  - NOT!  [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.c]
  Today in Joni History -  May 6       [Today in Joni History <les@jmdl.com>]
  Re: NJC RE: My 5/Turntable question (NJC)  [Randy Remote <guitarzan@saber.]
  Re: (NJC) Colorodo, gun control and the opinions of Americans  [Randy Remo]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 08:41:05 +0100
From: catman <catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk>
Subject: NJCRe: JMDL Digest V4 #200

I am amused that this was NOT labeled NJC!

Kleronomos@aol.com wrote:

> So I am writing to ask, politely, that everyone consider carefully whether
> deb thornton wrote: <<a given post is about Joni Mitchell or her music
> (preferably the latter) or whether it's a Joni-centered post or a
> tangentially related post. Please be considerate of people who do not wish to
> participate in off-topic discussions.>>
>
> thanks, deb.   The Joni-only list should be just that.
>
> To be fair, I would say that some people feel that they would like to discuss
> other topics, and feel a kinship with other Joni Mitchell admirerers. That
> valid to me.  But to ignore the guidelines by not putting NJC in the subject
> line (I thought it had to be the FIRST thing in the subject line to be
> rejected from the Joni-only list) is definately inconsiderate. I noticed you
> got at least one apology.  Let's see if they are repentant enough to remember
> in the future!
>
> I think it's so cool for our hosts to provide us with two lists to choose
> from!  It would be nice if people remembered to play by the rules, so it
> works as it was intended.
>
> np:  ".... comeonnow, you've got to try....if you're feeling contempt,  then
> tell it....."
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



- --

CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html
TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 03:49:43 -0400
From: "Eric Taylor" <ewwtaylor@adelphia.net>
Subject: Talkin' 'bout the ear

Back in August 1988 Musician Magazine printed my letter to the editor
regarding their Living Legends issue. This was also my first post to the
JMDL back in January 1998. I'm still wondering if anyone besides me sees a
connection between this letter and TI.

"I've long wondered why Joni Mitchell is not much more acknowledged for her
unparalleled innovations and creations, until I recently realized -- with
the sale of Van Gogh's paintings -- that the world's greatest geniuses are
often not recognized until long dead. I just hope that volume-hungry
audiences don't drive her to cut off an ear (unless it belongs to the jerk
who hit her guitar with a water-balloon at the Amnesty International
Conspiracy of Hope concert!).
JonEric
Mendocino, CA"

BTW, I was head hand on a sheep ranch at the time (jonEric was my pen-name
in the local newspaper) and had written a long letter to Joni praising her
work and comparing her to Van Gogh....
E.T.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 04:31:04 EDT
From: JRMCo1@aol.com
Subject: Joni's Jazz in Central Park

Wow! This from SummerStage.com:

<Joni's Jazz - Thursday July 1 @ 7:30 (Raindate Friday July 2)

Featuring Eric Anderson, Joy Askew, Holly Cole, Jon Hendricks and Annie Ross, 
John Kelly, Chaka Khan, P.M. Dawn, Vernon Reid, Duncan Sheik, Jane Siberry 
plus Special Guests.

It's the hissing of SummerStage - A Canada Day celebration of Joni Mitchell's 
most adventurous period as a recording artist - from Court & Spark to Mingus. 
 Vernon Reid leads a stellar band with a lineup of incredible guest vocalists 
in a one-time live performance, *including Hejira in its entirety.*  Special 
fundraiser for SummerStage.

First come first served general admission.  Suggested donation of $10+ at 
gates.  To guarantee yourself a seat and a view buy VIP bleacher seat now on 
sale for 30$>

- -Julius

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 23:14:10 +0200
From: "Tube" <ramnix@pronet.it>
Subject: NJC amy

>i would love to hear from you. i feel like
>i'm falling apart--
>i think it is this feeling of losing not just my
>husband, but my family...does this ever pass?  i hope this isn't too much
of
>a bummer...i'm going to go put on some talking heads and dance my rear end
>off.  thanks...amy

Hey, what are friends for? Write on! We're here for you.

Pumbah

P.S. -  What kind of bugs do YOU prefer? The slimy ones or the crunchy ones?


_____________________________________________________________

Get a Life - Get a RomeLife! at www.fortunecity.com/victorian/plath/175
_____________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 05:23:15 -0400
From: Jason Long <jase@bconnex.net>
Subject: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC)

While normally I don't post here, I always enjoy reading what everyone else
has to say. I think that the recent "artist of the decade"-related threads
have been particularly great and I keep finding myself wanting to throw my
two cents in. Now, sparked by David Wright's post asking us to write about
our choices for underappreciated or obscure artists of the decade, I'm
finally going to.

For me, the most underappreciated artist of this decade would be Jennifer
(later shortened to Jen) Trynin. While neither of her two albums received
much airplay or promotion, she has written and performed some of the
smartest, most passionate rock and roll I have heard this decade. She would
seem a natural for success, given the way the decade has unfolded -- first
with the blurring of the lines between "mainstream" and "alternative"
following the success of _Nevermind_, then later, with the growing
prominence and commercial acceptance of female singer/songwriters, but
somehow she got lost in the shuffle.

She released her first record, _Cockamamie_ on her own label in late 1994,
only to have Warner Bros. sign her and reissue the album in June '95 (the
same day Alanis Morissette's _Jagged Little Pill_ was released,
incidentally). Despite a minor alternative hit with "Better Than Nothing",
the album didn't really go anywhere, but caught my ears immediately.

One of the things I had found interesting in some of the reviews I read of
it was how, for a change, I saw a female artist drawing comparisons to male
musicians; I was used to seeing female artists compared only to one another.
Many reviews cited classic "alternative" bands such as Husker Du and the
Stooges as seeming to have been influences; it was only her voice that drew
comparisons to that of another female, and more often than not, Chrissie
Hynde of the Pretenders was the one given. I remember one reviewer summing
up the album by stating, "She winds up showing us her love of the
(genderless) rock aesthetic as demonstrated by Patti Smith on _Horses_," and
maybe that partly explains the album's lack of success: Most listeners (and
radio programmers, for that matter) were not used to hearing a female artist
sound quite like _this_. Also, even given the album's influences, it still
wasn't quite a natural for modern rock radio -- the songs weren't as
anthemic as those by Nirvana, Pearl Jam or Soundgarden; they were a little
more personal and the melodies were lighter.

Of the songs themselves, while I can't liken their sound to that of Aimee
Mann, they do share a similar feel at times. Most are relationship-centered
and they're usually bittersweet -- in a Jen Trynin song, the glass is most
apt to be half-empty. That's not to say they're overly bleek though; one of
Jen's greatest strengths as a songwriter is that she doesn't allow herself
to wallow in pity. There are flashes of humor and her (at times)
self-deprecating nature end up endearing her to the listener.

After falling in love with her first album, I was both delighted and anxious
when the release date for her second was announced. As much as I was looking
forward to hearing more of her music, I was worried that the new album, _Gun
Shy Trigger Happy_, would find her in a sophomore slump. One seeming
mainstay of music this decade has been artists whose second albums don't
live up to the promise of their first. As it turns out, I needn't have
worried; _Gun Shy_ was leaps and bounds beyond anything _Cockamamie_ hinted
at. I don't think I've seen such growth between one album and its
predecessor before; although this will likely come across as hyperbole, I
would almost liken it to Joni having gone from _Song to a Seagull_ right to
_Court and Spark_.

One immediately noticable change is how Jen had varied her sound a great
deal. While there were still a few "rock" songs, she seemed just as
interested in subtler midtempo songs and ballads (there's one song entitled
"I Don't Need You" that has a definite torch song quality to it).

The lyrics, while still mainly concerned with romantic relationships both
over and otherwise, have a more personal feel to them, which is a greater
draw for me as a listener. There's also one departure thematically; the song
"Under The Knife" is a creepy meditation on cosmetic surgery that's a little
unsettling.

Jen's guitar playing is superb throughout, and like on her earlier album,
she plays all the lead and rhythm parts herself (well, there is one
exception on _Cockamamie_: a solo by Dave Gregory of XTC on "Everything Is
Different Now"). Her vocals (and vocal style, itself) are also markedly
improved. While there were still a number of Chrissie Hynde comparisons, a
couple of reviews (including one in Entertainment Weekly) referenced Dusty
Springfield. She really seemed to give this album her all; perhaps it's
because she really had nothing to lose, being an artist of low profile on a
label that was going to drop her if she didn't start "moving units".

For me, _Gun Shy Trigger Happy_ delivered a wallop I've only felt from one
other album this decade, Liz Phair's _Exile in Guyville_ (although Hole's
_Live Through This_ may come close, but more for its music, whereas with
_Exile_ and _Gun Shy_, it's both the music and lyrics). The album was
released almost simultaneously with my break-up from the first person I'd
ever fallen in love with, and I found myself listening to it more than any
other. It was just what I needed at the time, and it's still powerful to me
today.

Unfortunately, not that many people got to hear in it what I did. Once
again, Jen failed to find an audience. Somehow, her timing was off again.
Her new sound wouldn't have been as at home at modern rock radio as before,
and while other radio formats were embracing Sarah McLachlan and Paula Cole,
Jen didn't seem to fit in with them either.

Much to my disappointment, as it stands now, Jen and Warner Bros. have
"parted ways" and she is taking a break from the music industry. I really
feel that she is the best artist who didn't make it this decade, and I can't
recommend her albums enough. _Gun Shy Trigger Happy_ is the best to start
with, in my opinion; while it may not be easy to find, it's worth searching out.

And while I'm shamelessly plugging the work of one of my favorites, Jen also
has a website at <http://www.jentrynin.com>, where some reviews of _Gun Shy_
can be found, along with her self-penned bio and the album's liner notes.


Jase

NP: XTC, _English Settlement_

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 08:39:01 -0400
From: Vince Lavieri <revrvl@pathwaynet.com>
Subject: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC)

Mark or Travis wrote:

> > Just a couple things: I think a case could be made for James Brown
> > over Dylan as solo artist of the '60s.
>
> Actually I've been rethinking this one myself.  Although Dylan
> certainly revolutionized songwriting, as a performer I really don't
> think he's done much for music in general (ducking and covering but
> going bravely onward now).  I think a good case could be made for
> Aretha Franklin.  Her healthy dose of gospel and blues power helped
> lift soul out of the R&B influenced pop of the Motown sound and sent
> it into the stratosphere.  When she sang 'R-E-S-P-E-C-T' you knew
> *exactly* what it meant to her and her singing has commanded it ever
> since.
>
> Mark in Seattle

So maybe for each decade we should not select ONE person or ONE band but
choose, maybe, five, for no ONE can contain all the influences of any
time period (except maybe the Beatles as group for the 60s... since they
were so uniquely revolutionary).  So, solo artists of the 60s should
include Bob Dylan, of course, James Brown, as amply shown on here, and
Aretha, a nomination that I concur with, and maybe one or two others
that the group here will discern in their wisdom.

(the Rev) Vince

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:50:57 EDT
From: MDESTE1@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [NJC] Today in Joni History -  May 5

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The single most amazing thing to me is that these same artists are remaining 
silent whiole the clinton administration conducts more war than any prior 
administration in history AND this administration is responsible for allowing 
the Chinese to start a brand new nuclear arms race. To a deafening silence in 
the media and in the Artsists who for so long held concerts like this. To 
think that the administration topped it all off by taking money for the 
campaign in 96 at this expense and the left in america remains silent is 
amazing. But it is true. Sadly.  

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Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:54:00 -0700
To: joni@smoe.org
From: Today in Joni History <les@jmdl.com>
Subject: Today in Joni History -  May 5
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1979: Today, Joni, Jane Fonda, Jackson Browne, Graham Nash, John Hall, Dan
Fogelberg, John Sebastian and others appear in Washington DC at a
"No-Nukes" rally.  A few days later, the LA Times published a review of the
event, saying "At an impromptu press conference following the afternoon
program of music and speeches on the Capitol steps, four of the
musicians—Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell, Graham Nash and John Hall—fielded
questions about their involvement in the antinuclear movement. Deftly, but
politely, they turned each question into an opportunity to respond with
facts, figures and observations about the nuclear issue.
Self-aggrandizement was not on the agenda."

Read the full article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/latimes790508.htm

Also, pictures and a review by Harry Hennessy can be found at:
http://www.jonimitchell.com/NoNukes79.html
- --------
Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to 
JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list.
- -------- 

- --part1_a15d4736.246198b1_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:22:26 EDT
From: Dflahm@aol.com
Subject: Re: (jc) central park

I see. The concert as announced for July 1 would be to BENEFIT  Summerstage, 
not   be  part of Summerstage itself. Coincidentally, The New York Times 
reported Summerstage's own slate as follows, in its Wednesday edition: "After 
13 years of entertaining over 5 million people, Central Park Summerstage will 
begin a new season of pop music, dance and opera  at the Rumsey Playfield in 
Central Park with a performance by Tommy James and the Shondells and Ronnie 
Spector on June 12.
Before the free series ends on Aug. 19th, the entertainment is to range from 
salsa by Adalberto Alvarez y Su Son and a family party featuring artists from 
the hip-hop Sugar Hill Gang, to the South African trumpeter, composer and 
social commentator Hugh Masakela to the NY Grand Opera, the flamenco revue 
Noche Flamenca, Lyle Lovett & the pop star Marianne Faithful."
   Oh, and while I'm practicing my typing, let me share a priceless and 
alarming final paragraph of a letter and reply from the current issue of 
SHEET MUSIC MAGAZINE.
"Would it be possible to publish ('Shoo-Shoo Baby'), which has been featured 
in many films, in a future issue...? Because of it's repetitious melody and 
chord changes, it would be easy and fun to play." And SM, of course, promptly 
assures the inquirer: "Thank you for your suggestion. We are planning to 
include this song in an upcoming issue."
   TAKE THAT, JONI MITCHELL!!!!                    Ciao for now             
DAVID LAHM 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:27:13 EDT
From: MGVal@aol.com
Subject: CSN revisited - some Joni trivia

While listening to CSN's first album for the first time in a bahillion years, 
I noticed that all of Graham Nash's songs were published by SIQUOMB - 
something I never noticed.
"..through the sharing of the profits he will find it hard to shake her from 
his memory..."

MG

np: CSN: "Lady of the Island"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:28:56 EDT
From: Dflahm@aol.com
Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz in Central Park

Outside of Hendricks & Ross, where are the JAZZ musicians on this roster? 
Just asking.   LAHM

------------------------------

Date: Wed,  5 May 1999 06:34:15 -0700
From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org
Subject: RE: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC)

David wrote:

<<<What sways me towards James Brown (besides the quality of
his music) is how widely he was/is sampled, as I understand,
by hip-hop artists, which goes beyond merely being influential
in my opinion>>>

This is very true, which is why I assign such a high place to
Parliament/Funkadelic as well.

Nonetheless, Dylan's biggest specific contribution--enabling
pop songs to be about anything, as Joni has said--I think crosses
genres and carries more substantial import than even Brown's
enormous contributions to hip-hop (ergo pop music).

It's true that a hip-hop classic like "The Message" by Grandmaster
Flash and the Furious Five ("Don't push me cuz I'm close to the
edge") might not have existed had it not been for James Brown.
 It's quite possible that it wouldn't have existed had it not
been for Bob Dylan, either.

- --Michael

NP:  Belle and Sebastian, _If You're Feeling Sinister_


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:35:44 EDT
From: Dflahm@aol.com
Subject: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC)

How many of you know the Taj Mahal album The Natch'l Blues? (Columbia Records)
The subtle spectrum of rhythm grooves on blues songs is really awesome. And 
there's this:
Some of you LA women, you make me so doggone tired
Some of you LA women, you make me so doggone tired
You got a hand fulla "Gimme"; you got a mouth fulla "Much obliged!"

And I have nothing against LA women; it's just a sparkling bit of language 
IMO.  
LAHM 

------------------------------

Date: Wed,  5 May 1999 06:41:56 -0700
From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org
Subject: RE: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC)

Mark wrote:

<<<I think a good case could be made for Aretha Franklin.  Her
healthy dose of gospel and blues power helped lift soul out of
the R&B influenced pop of the Motown sound and sent
it into the stratosphere.>>>

It is true that not one R&B singer since 1967 can escape the
shadow of Aretha.  Indeed, I would say that no pop music singer
can.  Aretha's singing was and is very analogous to other artists'
writing.  With her voice words could mean anything like with
no other singer before or after her (with the possible exception
of Holiday).

While I think a lot of '60s music is overrated (a thread we don't
have to revisit :-) ), there are more than a couple truly huge
icons from that time.

- --Michael

NP:  Missy "Misdemeanor" Elliott, "Beep Me 911" German single


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------------------------------

Date: Wed,  5 May 1999 06:55:44 -0700
From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org
Subject: RE: (jc) central park

Special JMDL Sheebaland correspondent Patrick Leader filed this
report from the front lines:

<<<In a special concert to honor the music of Joni Mitchell,
Jane Siberry will join band leader Vernon Reid and fellow guest
vocalists Chaka Khan>>>

!!!!!!

Chaka doing "Hejira" live?  Is it a possibility?!?

And you know who her new label-boss is, don't you?  The Artist
himself.  The one whose favorite album, HOSL, happens to fall
between C&S and Mingus.  Doth my imagination run too fleet?

Making plans now for an E Village Independence Day vacation,
I am...

- --Michael

NP:  Lauryn Hill, "Ex-Factor" British import single


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 09:06:49 -0500
From: Diana Duncan <dduncan@ipa.net>
Subject: NJC Spring in the Midwest

At 11:30 AM 5/4/1999 +0200, Winfried Hühn wrote:
>That was so weird -- I had just listened to "Let the Wind Carry Me"
>when they aired the>first pictures of Oklahoma City/Kansas.
>Any JMDLer living out there? 

We're all a little punchy here in the Midwest. I was at the Wal-mart in
Fayetteville, Arkansas yesterday when there was a tornado spotted 15 miles
to the west and head our way. They closed all the registers and I spent the
next 25 min. in the center of the store. I finally left my purchases and
took my chances to drive my 25 miles home. I've been in so many warnings
where (thankfully) nothing happened, I think I'm like the town people in
the story of the Boy who cried Wolf. We've had some hairy winds and some
damage around us but the town I live in hasn't had a tornado touch down
since the 60's. There's a myth that the Indians blessed this area. I think
it has to do with the Boston Mountains to the south.
Personally, I love thunderstorms. The energy, wind and excitement! I guess
this stems from growing up in San Diego where the weather changes little. 
It's so sad that this damage would hit Oklahoma City. They've been through
enough with the Federal Building bombing.
Just thought I'd share a little NJC. It's nice to be able to post again now
that school is just about ended. 
Diana

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 07:23:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Don Rowe <dgrowe227@yahoo.com>
Subject: The Three Great Stimulants

Hello list -- I'm back from jury duty -- which was
eerily like "The Three Great Stimulants" -- complete
with little lawyers from the tube, showing their
clients how their petty aggravations could profit
them. I remember a discussion a while back on the
meaning of Artifice, Brutality and Innocence in the
lyrics.  In light of my recent experiences, I humbly
offer a new layer of meaning for these stimulants ...

Artifice -- The skill of (or in this case, lack
thereof)  your lawyer, and his ability to paint petty
aggravations as potentially life-debilitating
conditions.

Brutality -- The heartlessness of the insurance
company, the big business bickering over doctors
reports and diagnoses, treatments and options, and
flatly refusing to pay huge sums for subjective
complaints.

Innocence -- The doe-eyed expression of the poor
20-year old defendant.  I'm really sorry for this poor
girl, caught in the clutches of Artifice, clearly
uncomfortable with exaggerating her claims.

The Exhausted Ones -- We the jury.

Don Rowe

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 11:28:28 EDT
From: TerryM2442@aol.com
Subject: AB FAB in Britain (NJC)

Well, this is a wierd question and targeted more to the Brits on the list.

Has anyone ever seen the show AB FAB ("Absolutely Fabulous"- I think)- it is 
a sitcom featuring a mom and daughter and the mom's girlfriend. My 13 yr. old 
is "addicted" to this show and I caught a glimpse of it and was a bit 
concerned from what little I did see. Now it's off the air, but she wants to 
order past episodes.

Can someone clue me in to what this show is all about? 
Thanks,
Terry in America

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:00:40 -0400
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s)  (NJC)

David admonishes:
     
        <<Of course "Rapture" isn't "the real deal"!! It isn't meant to be!
It's a *tribute* -- vintage Blondie in its sense of self-parody -- from 
the title pun on up, as Robert Christgau said, "the funniest, fondest joke 
Debbie Harry ever told on herself.">>

Maybe so, but I don't think too many fans/radio listeners took it that 
way. And while I'm thinking about it, why does the media/public feel like 
they have to have a Great White Hope for rap music? I think the whole 
thing started her with this Blondie song, parody or not (and I'm not 
disputing that point, David), and continues today. Rolling Stone 
celebrates the Beastie Boys as artist of the year for 1998 and last issue 
put this wretched Eminem on the cover with a feature article...now I'm the 
first one to admit I'm not an expert on rap, indeed history tells me 
there's very little interest on the list for it. But I have learned a lot 
from listening to Michael about it, he's invested a lot of time and 
enthusiasm for it, and he never beams about the Beastie Boys in comparison 
with the truly superior in the genre. Michael can appreciate the quality 
without insisting on some kind of racial equality, does white corporate 
America insist on having a Great White Hope in the rap world?

Don't mean to put you on the spot Michael, and my question is pretty much 
just a rhetorical observation...
     
     Bob
     
     NP: (It means "Now Playing, Deborah) Elvis Costello, "Tokyo Storm 
     Warning"
     

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:08:13 -0400
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s)  (NJC)

     Mark cerebralizes:
     
<<Actually I've been rethinking this one myself.  Although Dylan 
certainly revolutionized songwriting, as a performer I really don't 
think he's done much for music in general (ducking and covering but 
going bravely onward now).  I think a good case could be made for 
Aretha Franklin.  Her healthy dose of gospel and blues power helped 
lift soul out of the R&B influenced pop of the Motown sound and sent 
it into the stratosphere.  When she sang 'R-E-S-P-E-C-T' you knew 
*exactly* what it meant to her and her singing has commanded it ever 
since.>>
     
And both are fine nominees...I think the difference is that Dylan inspired a lot
of folks to pick up a guitar and become singer/songwriters (Joni being one), 
whereas upon hearing Aretha sing, many would-be singers just gave it up right 
right then and there! :~)

Pepsi made a huge mistake by putting Aretha in with that little obnoxious kid - 
Aretha so steals it, you almost forget what they're trying to sell!

Bob

NP: Elvis C: "Home is Anywhere You Hang Your Head" (The title by itself says 
more than the average pop song)
     
     

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:21:46 -0400
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re[4]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC

Patrick rolls up his sleeves, rares back and fires with:
     
<<this gets said a lot on list, and i get a little bit irritated.  radio 
seemed wonderful to me in the '70s, but i don't think the music was any 
better than it is now.  radio is the problem, and if you expect to hear the 
best music that way you will be disappointed.  i never once heard jane 
siberry on the radio.>>

Allow me to clarify...I don't think 60's/70's music was better, but I do 
think it was more ACCESSIBLE via radio. When all there was was "Top 40" or 
even "Album-Oriented Radio"(AOR) you'd hear folk music, instrumentals, surf 
music. pop music, heavy metal, soul music all on the same station and one 
right after another - now it's all segmented: There are still "Top 40" 
stations, but lordy I can't bear to listen to them...is there anybody here 
that does (younger listers?) Is there still a diversity? Otherwise, you have 
"New Rock", "Urban Contemporary", "Lite Rock", etc. Little wonder I always 
just listen to my own stuff...

The exception of course is Public Radio, unfortunately they don't have the 
wattage to reach a wide span plus they only have limited hours of music - 
BUT I do recall first hearing Jane Siberry's "Calling All Angels" on the 
public radio station! :~)
     
     Bob

------------------------------

Date: Wed,  5 May 1999 10:08:28 -0700
From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org
Subject: RE: racism in the music industry  (NJC and long)

Bob wrote:

<<<why does the media/public feel like they have to have a Great
White Hope for rap music? I think the whole thing started her
with this Blondie song, parody or not (and I'm not disputing
that point, David), and continues today.>>>

I agree with you on the race tip, Bob, and will add more below,
but I disagree that it began with Blondie, or at least that Blondie
themselves started it.  It is quite possible that the media/public
have used "Rapture" in that way (in fact, I think most do) but
I blame that on the media/public, not Blondie themselves.  The
black hip-hop community, which usually has justifiably high standards
of race consciousness, has honored Debbie Harry and Blondie for
that song.  They being the ones who experience racism, I defer
to them to name it.  In Blondie's case, they haven't.

<<<Rolling Stone celebrates the Beastie Boys as artist of the
year for 1998 and last issue put this wretched Eminem on the
cover with a feature article...>>>

I noticed this and was incensed.  Lauryn Hill was chosen by BOTH
_Rolling Stone_ and _Spin_ as Artist of the Year, and was featured
on NEITHER cover, previous custom notwithstanding.  To be fair,
the Beasties were RS's Band of the Year (and rightly so, IMO,
for their record and for the Tibetan Freedom Concert).  Nonetheless,
Lauryn never appeared on RS's cover until AFTER the kajillion
Grammy nominations--_Esquire_ and _Time_ beat the rag formerly
known as revolutionary to the punch.

And _Spin_ *still* hasn't put her on the cover, choosing Shirley
Manson, lead singer of Garbage, whose platinum (as opposed to
Lauryn's 5 X platinum) album appeared in the lower reaches of
their top ten (as opposed to Lauryn's number one).  That is pure
and utter BS.  And yes, I think it's a combination of racism
and sexism.  Not explicitly perhaps, but probably more a fear
that she wouldn't sell magazines (whatever) or wasn't the kind
of artist _Spin_'s audience would relate to (which is touchy-feely
code for racism and sexism).

While we're at it, Outkast is a hip-hop group whose record both
appeared higher in Spin's ranking and sold more than Garbage.
 No cover for them either.  (Their record is brilliant though--I
highly recommend _Aquemeni_ to George Clinton fans.)

I have not heard Eminem's music and thus have no opinion yet.
 It is quite possible he is part of a marketing scheme to reach
the rebellious middle-class suburban white teen who already forms
part of rap's core fan base (and whose counterparts listened
to heavy metal in the late '80s).  However, I'm reserving judgment.
 Some very creative hip-hop artists have credited his skills,
so I'll wait to decide for myself.

That said, I will point out that the week he appeared on the
cover, his record had peaked at #2 on the Billboard charts. 
Meanwhile TLC's new record had spent FOUR weeks at #1.  A hip-hop
identified R&B group of three black women.  They have gone on
to have the #1 single in the country for four weeks.  But no
RS cover.  Coincidence or pattern?  You decide.

(Of course Cher's surprise comeback hasn't gotten her a cover
yet either.  Perhaps there is some justice.)

Jay-Z's most recent album spent five weeks at number one last
fall, displacing Lauryn's.  It was a record for a hip-hop album.
 If I remember correctly he then shared an RS cover with Wyclef
Jean and one other rapper.  If he was Dave Matthews, he would
have been there by his lonesome, no doubt.

Bob says of me:

<<< He never beams about the Beastie Boys in comparison 
with the truly superior in the genre.>>>

Actually, the Beasties have appeared on a few lists of mine.
 I like them quite a bit.  So do many, many people in the black
hip-hop community.  They are the *only* white hip-hop superstars
who give the music and its creators the respect it deserves.
 It shows in their music, and it shows in the way they are regarded
in the hip-hop community.  It's worth pointing out that their
manager, Russell Simmons, is black.  A flip of the standard arrangement
for '60s R&B artists.

It's also worth pointing out that the *industry* refuses to classify
the Beasties as hip-hop.  Their recent Grammy nominations were
in the alternative category.  Columbia House and BMG call them
alternative.  Rolling Stone recently filed their Essential Records
of the '90s entries under alternative.  Put that in your crack-pipe
and smoke it.

<<<Michael can appreciate the quality without insisting on some
kind of racial equality>>>

Hip-hop is a black music.  Created by black people for black
people.  ANY white person who becomes involved in hip-hop--as
an artist, as a fan, as a journalist, or as a businessperson--is
morally obligated to honor its black roots, IMO.  Thos few who
do gain my respect and the respect of others in the hip-hop community.
 Those who don't, suck.

I do not insist on racial equality in the genre because racial
equality is not necessary to the integrity of the genre.  So
much of it is about blackness, and more specifically, blackness
in America.  That does not mean that it cannot evolve or that
its platform cannot become broader and more universal (indeed,
it has).  But that history must always, always be remembered.

The industry has no interest in that history.  They have interest
only in $$$.  If they can commodify the dissent of hip-hop in
a white body that can still fill the rebellious fantasies of
white Americans, they will.  And they may be trying now.

- --Michael, wishing we had learned from rock 'n' roll

NP:  Albita, _Una Mujer Como Yo_



- -----
Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html )
The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:11:02 -0400
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s)  (NJC)

David seeks relief from fundamental boredom asking:

<<So, with that in mind, how about....
unappreciated, obscure, specialized, unique artist(s) of the decade(s)? 
Artists who would never in a million years appear on "artist(s) of the 
decade(s)" lists?
     
It seems something new might actually come from lists like that. >>

Excellent idea David!! (But keep in mind that the idea was born of the much more
mundane thread...:~))

And like you say, a much tougher choice across the board. Without spending TOO 
much time soul-searching, and knowing I'll kick myself in the pants when I see 
what others say:

60's: The Left Banke - The first time I heard "Walk Away Renee" I was 
mesmerised. It sounded like nothing else I'd ever heard. The only other thing I 
heard by them was "Pretty Ballerina" and it was equally gorgeous. Surely there 
was some pure pop talent there that was never allowed to come to full fruition 
commercially like it should have.

70's: Loggins & Messina - OK, go ahead and laugh, unfortunately, they're 
remembered for "Your Momma Don't Dance", but "Sittin' In", "On Stage", "Loggins 
& Messina" are all great albums...and they also have a triumvirate hat trick: 
"Mother Lode", "Full Sail", & "Native Son". These records are great combinations
of pop, folk, jazz-like epic space music, and of course, great harmonies and 
instrumentation abound. Some of Loggin's vocals especially (Brighter Days, 
Wasted Time, Love Song) are really gorgeous.

80's: XTC I go on about them too much I guess but it's so sad to see such great 
songs go unheard, such wonderful albums hit the cut-out bins and discount racks,
such talent only allowed a minimal amount of output.

90's: I would pick The Red House Painters. There records have grown from moody, 
Cure-like atmospheric pieces to varied jam/folk/rock gems. If you want to know 
what Neil Young would sound like singing "Crazy Love Songs", give them a listen.

<<(I'll send in my choices presently, if the thread goes anywhere.)<<

Your turn, David...

Bob

NP: Freedy Johnston, "You Get Me Lost"
     

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 10:14:34 -0700
From: jan gyn <jgyn@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s)  (NJC)

>90's: I would pick The Red House Painters. There records have grown from
moody, 
>Cure-like atmospheric pieces to varied jam/folk/rock gems. If you want to
know 
>what Neil Young would sound like singing "Crazy Love Songs", give them a
listen.
>Bob
>NP: Freedy Johnston, "You Get Me Lost"

I saw the RHP open for the The Cardigans a couple years ago in SF.  Their
jaw dropping, feedback laden emotionalism seemed to stun and mesmerize the
younger Cardigan fan majority.  It was an odd double bill, but one that
worked in mysterious ways.
- -jan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 11:24:49 -0700 
From: Jenaya Dawe <Jenaya@playnetwork.com>
Subject: NJC RE: My 5/Turntable question (NJC)

I only get 5?

Lucinda Williams- Car Wheels On A Gravel Road
Gillian Welch- Hell Among The Yearlings
Will Sing For Food- The Songs Of Dwight Yoakam (Pete Droge's cover of "One
Thousand Miles is imho PERFECT)
Audio Alchemy- Various (Wonderful electronica series put out by the
wonderful Ubiquity label)
Howlin' Wolf- The London Sessions


You audiophiles are gonna LOVE this question.  I want to buy a good high
quality turntable.  I'm willing to spend about $400.  My roomie and I are
also planning on buying a new amp.  Any suggestions?

Jenaya - who buys at least 15 CDs a week (not counting the hundreds for
work)

http://www.playnetwork.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 19:26:11 +0100
From: catman <catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: AB FAB in Britain (NJC)

It is an outrageous comedy with french and Saunders. They play oh so trendy
media/fashion people-always drunk etc. Funny. I don't think it will corrupt your
daughter.

TerryM2442@aol.com wrote:

> Well, this is a wierd question and targeted more to the Brits on the list.
>
> Has anyone ever seen the show AB FAB ("Absolutely Fabulous"- I think)- it is
> a sitcom featuring a mom and daughter and the mom's girlfriend. My 13 yr. old
> is "addicted" to this show and I caught a glimpse of it and was a bit
> concerned from what little I did see. Now it's off the air, but she wants to
> order past episodes.
>
> Can someone clue me in to what this show is all about?
> Thanks,
> Terry in America



- --

CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html
TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 14:37:40 -0400
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: NJC Re[3]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s)  - NOT!

Jan says of the Red House Painters:
     
<<I saw the RHP open for the The Cardigans a couple years ago in SF.  Their jaw 
dropping, feedback laden emotionalism seemed to stun and mesmerize the younger 
Cardigan fan majority.  It was an odd double bill, but one that worked in 
mysterious ways.>>

I'd love to catch them live, they don't seem to ever tour this area...I'll have 
to check and see if they have a webpage with tour info...unfortunately, every 
time I go web-surfing I end up in the wonderland of jonimitchell.com!

Bob

NP: Freedy Johnston, "Evie's Tears"
     
     

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 12:54:00 -0700
From: Today in Joni History <les@jmdl.com>
Subject: Today in Joni History -  May 6

1972:  Joni performs at Festival Hall in London - with Jackson Browne as
the opening act.  Sounds Magazine later published a review of the evening,
saying "The evening had started badly - half an hour later than advertised
the audience were let into the main hall having been barricaded out.
Apparently the sound system had been playing up all day, and the sight of
road managers and sound guys still fiddling around with leads as we got to
our seats was hardly a settling vision.  Out of [Jackson Browne's] 40
minute set only three songs actually got completed... During the interval
the Festival Hall's own system was moved onstage for Joni who came on
looking calm and beautiful - even though earlier she had been standing in
the wings puffing nervously at a cigarette as Jackson was onstage."

Read the full article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/sounds720513.htm

1995: Joni performs at the 26th annual "New Orleans Jazz & Heritage
Festival". (From Wally's bio): [Today],  Joni gave an 80 minute concert...
At this show, she premiered her new electric guitar- the Roland VG-8. Built
for Joni by Fred Walecki of Westwood Music in Los Angeles, the apparatus
solved a great deal of tuning problems for Joni. The VG-8 is actually the
computer processor that her Stratocaster-like green guitar is plugged into.
This computer stores all her tunings and can recreate them at the push of a
pedal.

View photos of the event at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/NewOrleansJazz95.html
- --------
Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to 
JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list.
- -------- 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 12:52:57 -0700
From: Randy Remote <guitarzan@saber.net>
Subject: Re: NJC RE: My 5/Turntable question (NJC)

Jenaya Dawe wrote:

>
> You audiophiles are gonna LOVE this question.  I want to buy a good high
> quality turntable.  I'm willing to spend about $400.  My roomie and I are
> also planning on buying a new amp.  Any suggestions?

I'm not up on the latest brands, but I would suggest your turntable be a
linear
tracking one.  Instead of an arm, the cartridge moves across the record in a
straight line on a pair of rods.  The reason this is important is that records
are cut that way, originally, and it ensures that the cartridge is always
oriented perfectly in the groove.  With an arm, the cartridge gets twisted off
axis a little bit, especially close to the label. The result is that the
recorded information on each side of the groove arrive at slightly different
times.  This results in phasing problems.  In short, it makes the music sound
weird, and is quite noticable with headphones on.
    I got a Technics linear tracking model for about $200 a few years back and
fit it with an $80 Pickering cartidge.  I have been quite happy with it.
    Amplifiers:  when looking at power specs, most companies fudge with specs
like "50w/channel into 2 ohms" (or 4 ohms).  These companies know full well
that 95% of speakers are 8 ohms, and that translates to 12w (or 25) in the
real
world.  It just looks better on paper.  Also, check out the distortion.  1% is
alot.
.05% is a much better number.  They are just numbers, though.  It doesn't
neccesarily mean the unit will sound better.  Also, the speakers will affect
the
sound (probably more than any other component).  Those fancy speakers in the
showroom will make anything sound great, and the salesman knows this.
RR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 13:26:26 -0700
From: Randy Remote <guitarzan@saber.net>
Subject: Re: (NJC) Colorodo, gun control and the opinions of Americans

Marcel,
I was with you on your assessment of the media up until the last
sentence.
The 'liberal media' is a myth, I think Rush Limbaugh invented that.
The media
is extremely conservative.  Often they simply forward the press
releases given to
them by big business or the government.  Less than 20 huge
corporations own
ninety something percent of all newspapers, TV and radio stations,
thanks to Mr.
Reagan removing the laws preventing monopoly of same.  If you think
the media is
left biased, start making a list of all the right wing talk show hosts
in one column,
and the left wing ones in another.  I guarantee you the right wing
side will be ten
times longer.
Refering to Clinton as liberal or left wing is a complete joke, by the
way.  He has
done things the Republicans have only dreamed of:  slashing welfare,
stepping up
the drug war, authorizing triple the wiretaps on citizens' telephones
that Bush did,
etc, etc.  There is virtually no left wing debate at all in mainstream
media.  There is
extreme right (where right used to be), moderate right (where middle
of the road
used to be), and middle of the road (where liberal used to be).
Perhaps the reason you say no one is protesting the war is that the
media is not
covering it.  Another example is Ralph Nader's run for presidency,
which was
a non item in the news, he was refused entry into the TV debates, and
he is hardly
left wing.  Just trying to call the greedheads on their games.
I think, as Gina has suggested, that the scism is not left-right, but
have or have not.
Rush Limbaugh's genius has been in duping non-millionares into voting
for the
politics which serve the millionares.  They sure don't have the
numbers to do it
themselves.  Scapegoating and veiled racism have been an effective
tool for
accomplishing this.  The rapidly disappearing middle class are getting
screwed,
no question.  The task has been to convince them it is the fault of
someone other
than the greedheads that have sold them out, sent their jobs to the
third world,
or downsized them away, and escaped on their own platinum parachutes.
Project Censored puts out a book every year (available in every
bookstore)
that lists the top 20 censored news stories, and top diversions (OJ,
Monica).
I recommend it, as well as FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting
(?) ).
You are right to say that we can only be as informed as our source
(usually
TV).  The information is exactly what the corporados want you to hear
and see
because that's who owns it.  Even PBS is totally conservative these
days, and
have non commercials indistinguishable from the network ones.
By the way, where did you get the information that the poor read very
little?
RR

Bounced Message wrote:

> From: MDESTE1@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:00:00 EDT
>
> Gina, the biggest factor which determines ones perception
> is usually the facts filtered through belief. The "poor" read
> very little because they either cant afford the sources or
> they lack the true interest and willingness to learn. The "poor"
> that can and do make the effort in fact can become
> knowledgeable. having said that all studies have demonstrated
> beyond a doubt that a vast majority of Americans (a) consider
> themselves to be informed and (b) obtain most of the
> information by which they formulate their opinions from
> (are you ready) Television. There is an organization which
> literally tapes all news and related programming which
> purports to inform the American people and they analyze
> the content for factual accuracy and disclosure. I enclose
> an attachment for your interest. the subject is the recent
> Littleton incident. WWW.MRC.ORG is a site that if you go
> there weekly and take the time to read their analysis you
> will be (a) shocked how biased TV is and (b) find it difficult
> to argue. There used to be a saying of the Anti-war
> movement in the 60's that said "Question authority".
> Today far too many people refuse to accept facts and
> real information because it confronts their prejudices. Their
> "authority" has become a very left biased media and they
> never question whether what they are getting is complete
> information or only those facts which push an agenda.
> Sincerely, Marcel.

------------------------------

End of JMDL Digest V4 #202
**************************

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