From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #201 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, May 5 1999 Volume 04 : Number 201 TapeTree #8 is ready to roll. To sign up go to: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Just a reminder... [Les Irvin ] Re: Artist (s) of the Decade / Joni Trivia [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: NJC - Clarification [Les Irvin ] Re: open letter (NJC) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: 5 recent purchases NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC) [catman ] Re: open letter (NJC) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Swimps (NJC) [michael paz ] Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC) [David Wright ] Re: (NJC) Colorodo, gun control and the opinions of Americans [Ginamu@ao] (NJC) Cheryl Wheeler in CA [Ashara@aol.com] Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: (NJC) Colorodo, gun control and the opinions of Americans [Bounced M] (jc) central park [patrick leader ] Re: (jc) central park ["Kakki" ] Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: (jc) central park NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: enduring influence & topic: artistic greatness ["Hel] Re: NJC - Clarification NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: new e-mail address/how could I live w/o y'all?! [Bounced Message ] 5 recent purchases (NJC) [evian ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 14:54:51 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Just a reminder... Joniphiles - So far, the onlyJoni options to the list seem to be working pretty good. I appreciate all those who are using the NJC tag in their subject lines when applicable. Please continue to double-check your subject lines before you send - especially when replying to another post, as this seems to be where most of the non-compliance originates from. The onlyJoni subscribers and I thank you! Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:12:02 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Artist (s) of the Decade / Joni Trivia Kraftwerk should be on this list of influencers. As well as inspiring early hip hop they were forerunners of today's electronic music. Now the JC trivia. Which Bill Haley tune does Joni quote from ? Philip NP Basement Jaxx - Red Alert ><<<[70's] >Led Zepplin >CSN&Y >Pink Floyd >James Brown >Fleetwood mac>>> > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 15:20:18 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: NJC - Clarification At 02:50 PM 5/4/99 , Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: > What happens when a thread turns from NJC to JC? .... > My inclination is to maintain the NJC tag throughout the thread as > it's like picking up the phone in mid-conversation; what is the > general rule? Tough call, Bob. I guess it's up to the author of each post. "Picking up the phone in mid-conversation" and, likewise, "hanging up the phone in mid-conversation" may become an inevitable downside of being part of the onlyJoni options. Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 17:26:15 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: open letter (NJC) In a message dated 5/4/1999 2:05:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 68coyotes@onms.com writes: << So I am writing to ask, politely, that everyone consider carefully whether a given post is about Joni Mitchell or her music (preferably ther latter) or whether it's a Joni-centered post or a tangentially related post. Please be considerate of people who do not wish to participate in off-topic discussions. thank you, deb thornton >> Frankly for me it will be easier to just keep all my posts Joni or not to ALL NJC that way if I forget, I really didn't. Catgirl everything NJC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 17:28:52 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: 5 recent purchases NJC In a message dated 5/4/1999 3:37:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, M.Russell@iaea.org writes: << Plumb - Jonatha Brooke When I Was A Boy - Jane Siberry Marian Vienna >> I would like to get Plumb do you like it? Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 23:28:33 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC) I wouldn't have a clue as to who was most influential but I know what i was listening too: 50's: as i was bron just 13 motnhs bfore it ened, nothing by choice. 60's: whatever my parents had-Humperdink, Petula Clark, Tom Jones, Mario Lanza, Matt Munro, Bassey, Ray Connif Singers etc 70's: Pink Floyd, Mike Oldfield, Carole King, Carly Simon, Joni Mitchell and Donna Summer, ABBA 80's: Carly and Joni and ABBA 90's: Carly, Joni, Dar Williams, Janis Ian, Enigma, Deep forest, Dance Music. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 23:29:14 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC RE: This Illegal War This war is a very difficult thing to come to some sort of terms with. When i was different, i would have seen it as a black/white situation-no shades of grey. war is wrong. So stop it. BUT I am different now and look at things differently. Yes - we cannot just sit back and watch a people be slaughtered as happened in Germany. N0- we cannot just bomb the hell out of the place cos people will get killed-something we are trying to stop. |However, although i agree that the children in this conflict are innocent, I do not accept that the peoples are. If the people said NO it would not be happening. But they just get on with their own lives and think 'it's not my business-i am not Muslim or Albanian'. Or they have fallen for the propaganda etc and hate the Albians. So these people contribute to their own situation now. However, that doesn't make NATO correct. I still believe killing to wrong and I believe that people could stop it peacefully by ALL of them refusing to participate. Milosovich could not commit genocide on his own. But we don't live in such a world and the peaceful way just won't work. The whole thing is wrong, plain and simple, but it won't stop anything. As for the comaprison to Vietnam, unless I missed something, that war was not about protecting a people from genocide. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:44:30 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: open letter (NJC) In a message dated 5/4/1999 4:32:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TreyCozy@aol.com writes: << but i just find this joni-clan to be so bright and eloquent. i've learned so much from it all. that's all... trey NP - trouble child (how ironic) >> DITTO! O may be new here but I feel a sense of closeness with quite a few here on the list. Not everbody mind you! But there are those who I felt an instant conection with and that is why I am here and for the love of Joni but that goes with out saying ((((smiles)))) Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:07:25 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Swimps (NJC) Katie wrote: " P.S. To Michael Paz, please come to Ashara's and bring some of those darn good shrimp with you!" ********************************************************************** Katie- You see how you people are! You are all just evil. AHHHHHHHHHHHH! I am being ambushed here, so I guess I know what this all means. Michael thumbing thru the yellow pages looking for a good attorney ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 19:28:10 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC) Bob M. wrote of Blondie: > > I was always of the opinion that Rapture was to the real deal what Pat > Boone was to Fats Domino... Of course "Rapture" isn't "the real deal"!! It isn't meant to be! It's a *tribute* -- vintage Blondie in its sense of self-parody -- from the title pun on up, as Robert Christgau said, "the funniest, fondest joke Debbie Harry ever told on herself." :) On the subject of hip-hop... Michael Y. wrote: > > David mentioned James Brown over Dylan, which had occurred to > me. I still think Dylan gets the edge, but it would be just > tragic not to mention Brown, who is a giant among giants. What sways me towards James Brown (besides the quality of his music) is how widely he was/is sampled, as I understand, by hip-hop artists, which goes beyond merely being influential in my opinion -- as somebody put it, there would *be* no hip-hop without the bass line of some James Brown song (an exaggeration, of course, but very illustrative), I forget which one now. That quite impresses me. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:59:36 -0700 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: Re: NJC RE: This Illegal War Yeah Don, let's stick our head back into the sand and make believe the world revolves around the USA. I mean till they hit our shore we don't have to do anything. Let the Africans kill Africans, Serbians the Albanians, Germans the Jews, Cambodians kill Cambodians. What the hell, if they don't pay taxes screw them. It'll give us that more of the world's natural resources we could use up. Of course, Do we tell that to our kids? I mean why not? Wouldn't that make Littleton comprehensible? After all it's just you and me that counts and I'm not too sure about you. later gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Sloan To: JMDL Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 8:46 AM Subject: NJC RE: This Illegal War > Thanks to Al Date for pointing out these facts and asking some hard > questions at the end of the post. If this is such a righteous, holy war > we've started, spending billions killing innocent men, women and > children (many, many more than you are seeing on the evening news, I > assure you), then why was the action not initiated by the U.N.? > > I remember Kent State; I remember Viet Nam. Maybe we will have to see > American kids coming home in body bags before we wake up and demand that > we get the hell out of this centuries-old mess. But of course, that's > why the bombing approach - hard to create successful spin on CNN when > your friends and neighbors - maybe your son or daughter - come home from > the crusades in a bag. > > Don > > Al Date wrote: > > > As far as the US Constitution is concerned, it does not matter whether US troops are engaged in conflict > > by themselves or in coalition with NATO or any other organization. > > > > The Constitution is still the supreme law of the land. 17 Congressmen, including my rep Tom Campbell, > > have filed suit to have the war declared illegal, since it does not have a declaration of support from > > Congress (required by the War Powers Act.) > > > > On top of that, this action is a violation of the NATO Charter, which defines NATO as a defensive > > organization, and limits its actions to NATO countries under attack. Yugoslavia is not a NATO member. > > > > Finally, the attack violates the United Nations Charter itself, which requires any attack like this to be > > authorized by the Security Council. The only exception is when a sovereign nation is under attack by > > another one and must defend itself immediately. Of course, that is not the case here. What is the case > > is that we have entered a civil war, with bad guys on both sides--like in ANY CIVIL WAR. > > > > No matter how you slice it, this attack is ILLEGAL, under every available jurisdiction. > > When the World Court hears the appeals of the Serbs, it will declare the war illegal--and our government > > will ignore the ruling. > > > > So what? I hear you say. > > > > The US government has effectively placed itself outside its own Constitution, and snubbed its nose at > > international law! > > > > We are now the bullies of the world. Our leaders may have good intentions in Kosovo, but has their course > > of action accomplished anything but the acceleration of evil actions? Further, is it worth the cost of > > establishing more precedents of international lawlessness? What is there to guarantee that unrestrained > > political leaders will always have good intentions in the global theater? > > > > How can we claim a moral high-ground against terrorists and ethnic-cleansers, when we AS A NATION > > lawlessly slaughter innocent civilians remotely, and dismiss it as "collateral damage?" > > > > > > - --Al Date > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:23:48 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Colorodo, gun control and the opinions of Americans Hi Everyone, I've found the posts on gun control very interesting. I am not particularly eloquent when it comes to this issue. It's really very complex and Iike capital punishment, my intellect and my emotions are always battling and I never seem to make up my mind. I am in touch with so many people with so many differing views. I am not insulated exclusively by any extreme, left or right leaning. My work and my community put me in touch with such a wide array of people, from the most educated to the poorest and neediest and everyone in between. This makes these types of issues so fundamentally NOT black and white for me. It also illustrates very clearly for me that the will of the people is very strong on all sides. I don't really see the "sheep" mentality that some people on this list seem to feel is going on in American society. I see people who in their own way and depending on how articulate they are, voice their opinions very strongly on both extremes as well as in varying shades in between. Those who just mimic Rush Limbagh to Jim Hightower without thinking are more the exception than the rule, from my experience. I think Americans (particularly the poor and working class) are not given the attention their opinions deserve because they lack the right "buzz words" to make themselves heard and they are often ostracized from conventional forums except when they are being made jerks of by the likes of Jerry Springer. Very unfortunate because when you really listen to people and try to extract their meaning, you'd be surprised at the knowledge and strength of conviction that comes out on issues such as gun control, capital punishment, abortion, the current war, etc. Just my two cents and as is usual for me, my slice of life and with it, my humble opinions. Take care, Gina NP: Queen of Soul on the radio (I'm gonna knock on your door, rap on your window pane...what a great song!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:42:58 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: (NJC) Cheryl Wheeler in CA Since there has been so much talk about Cheryl Wheeler on the list lately, AND since I feel so strongly that she is an incredible musician and incredibly funny, AND because I included the NJC tag, AND "just because I can"...... ;-) I am letting you Californians know that Cheryl is in your area this week, and it would be a GRAVE mistake to miss her show! Hugs, Ashara 5/5/99 Doc's Nightclub 831-655-6868 Monterey CA 8:00 PM 5/6/99 Great American Music Hall 415-885-0750 San Francisco CA 8:00 PM 5/7/99 Victoria Hall 805-688-9507 Santa Barbara CA 8:00 PM 5/8/99 McCabe's 310-828-4403 Santa Monica CA 7:30 & 9:30 PM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 17:50:18 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC) > Just a couple things: I think a case could be made for James Brown > over Dylan as solo artist of the '60s. Actually I've been rethinking this one myself. Although Dylan certainly revolutionized songwriting, as a performer I really don't think he's done much for music in general (ducking and covering but going bravely onward now). I think a good case could be made for Aretha Franklin. Her healthy dose of gospel and blues power helped lift soul out of the R&B influenced pop of the Motown sound and sent it into the stratosphere. When she sang 'R-E-S-P-E-C-T' you knew *exactly* what it meant to her and her singing has commanded it ever since. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:58:42 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Quest for Anne Sexton fans (NJC) Would the person (s) who responded to my post about Peter Gabriel and the song Mercy Street whose subject is the poet Anne Sexton, please respond to me personally, as I've lost your email address. Gina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:00:42 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: (NJC) [MD]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) > > > [60's] > > Special mention...All the permutations of John Mayal and the Bluesbreakers > (oooh yes!) > > Beatles > > Stones > > Jeff Beck's Yardbirds > > Jimi Hendrix Experience > > The Who > > The Doors > All permutations of Clapton, Winwood, Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young > Van Morrison > Byrds > Personal faves: Moby Grape and Sons of Champlin And my personal fave, Jefferson Airplane. > > > [70's] > > Led Zepplin > > CSN&Y > > Pink Floyd > > James Brown > > Fleetwood mac > > Steely Dan > The Cars I'd add Jethro Tull (where is Sue McNamara these days?) > > > [80's] > > Bruuuuce > > Bowie > > U-2 > > Michael Jackson > > The Police > > Special heartbeat...Annie Lennox > > The Cure > All permutations of Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins again, Talking Heads and The Pretenders > > > [90's] > > Almost nothing of note except for those too young to have > > seen the real deals.Eerily reminiscent of the last music > > wasteland period in the early 50's when former Mousketeers > > and people like Pat Boone were stealing the songs from the > > original black artists and making millions while John Lee > > Hooker couldnt get a gig. > > This is such a bleak appraisal! Well, the 90s are almost over. Maybe we'll > see another renaissance in the 00s. > > 90s - hmmm...REM, Rembrandts, Seal to name a few faves > > Liked your story of the school dance. But hey, a lot of us all stood around > and didn't dance a lot back in the 60s-70s, too, except when either 50s rock > or Jimi, Led Zep or the Doors were playing. > > Kakki > > NP: Kenny Rankin - Time and Love "don't let the devil fool you here comes a > dove, nothing cures like time and love" singing a Laura Nyro song! She certainly belongs in a list of influences and all time greats! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:20:40 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: NJC RE: This Illegal War > I still believe killing to wrong and I believe that people could stop it peacefully by ALL of them refusing to > participate. Milosovich could not commit genocide on his own. But we don't live in such a world and the > peaceful way just won't work. Does anybody else remember this old Joan Baez song? And when the soldiers burn their uniforms In every land The foxholes and the borders Will be left unmanned General when you come for your review The troops will have forgotten you And the men and women of the world Shall rest.... Lovely dream, isn't it? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:31:07 EDT From: Kleronomos@aol.com Subject: enduring influence & topic: artistic greatness mwyarbro@zzapp.org { Michael } wrote: << What he {James Brown} and Dylan did for music was so different it's almost impossible to evaluate them against each other.>> Good point! I could NOT choose between Joni and Dylan for "Artist of the 60's" OR for that matter, the 70's. I haven't heard Jimi Hendrix's name in this context, but surely he had some serious impact in his short career. Gibran wrote "They dip their pens in my heart, and think they are inspired." Musicians reflect the music that had an impact on them, and use one another's work as a springboard to express themselves in THEIR art. Led Zeppelin's work was heavily influenced by (some would say "they ripped off") such blues greats as Howlin' Wolf, but their sound was awesome. They had made it their own, and then some. Such is music, sculpture, science, and philosophy. But there is a distinction with artists like Dylan and Joni, IMHO, who are so original that if you look behind them, you cannot trace the influence. Artists of that calibre are rare, and when you start handing out awards, you have to have a category. Innovators make up their own categories. Whether an artist is a creative writer, or simply a creative interpreter of someone else's stuff, the "prize" is the enduring value it gives listeners. If artists receive the recognition of awards, that's nice too, but I've always felt that folks like Joni and Bob were shooting for the prize that really matters, our hearts. topic for discussion: what comprises greatness in an artist? I submit that what makes an artist great is the fact that they communicate transparently. Joni Mitchell does that. Her heart is out there. She has a following (and a discussion list) because she can make you feel what she's feeling, or she so perfectly expresses what we have felt, or are feeling. What do you think? np: silence (hum of computer fan) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:30:05 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Colorodo, gun control and the opinions of Am In a message dated 5/4/99 9:00:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1 writes: > The "poor" read > very little because they either cant afford the sources or > they lack the true interest and willingness to learn. We have a rather high illiteracy rate in this country also, which makes reading sources inaccessible, even when they're available through the local library. Marcel goes on to say: Their "authority" has become a very left biased media and they never question whether what they are getting is complete information or only those facts which push an agenda. Marcel, what are you talking about?? The media is owned by mega corporations. Rupert Murdoch, etc. How much have you heard lately on the televised or radio news about 750,000 dead Iranian children per year since the embargoes this government has placed on that country? Not a word. Not even on NPR. Left wing media, my arse. Personally, I wish it were so. What I was really trying to express in my post was that despite poverty and other obstacles, people form opinions which may not be as deep and broad as what we see on this list but that come from a level of personal experience. I think those opinions should not be dismissed. Take care, Gina NP: Judybats - Pain Makes You Beautiful ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:48:58 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - Clarification NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC In a message dated 5/4/1999 4:52:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << My inclination is to maintain the NJC tag throughout the thread as it's like picking up the phone in mid-conversation; what is the general rule? Bob >> Great point Bob. I am know living in a constant fear of pissing people off. I feel safer just keeping it all NJC for fear of getting others riled! Then as well I might ask a question basically to the whole gruop ( and I guess in the future say ...anyone know anything about this artist,etc) and that is not acceptable either. This list certainly can be tough! Catgirl...slings and arrows coming my way...DUCK! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:52:52 EDT From: Kleronomos@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #200 So I am writing to ask, politely, that everyone consider carefully whether deb thornton wrote: <> thanks, deb. The Joni-only list should be just that. To be fair, I would say that some people feel that they would like to discuss other topics, and feel a kinship with other Joni Mitchell admirerers. That valid to me. But to ignore the guidelines by not putting NJC in the subject line (I thought it had to be the FIRST thing in the subject line to be rejected from the Joni-only list) is definately inconsiderate. I noticed you got at least one apology. Let's see if they are repentant enough to remember in the future! I think it's so cool for our hosts to provide us with two lists to choose from! It would be nice if people remembered to play by the rules, so it works as it was intended. np: ".... comeonnow, you've got to try....if you're feeling contempt, then tell it....." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:18:43 EDT From: Drewdix@aol.com Subject: Re: joni this summer? In a message dated 5/4/99 4:29:34 AM, kakkib@att.net writes: <> Part of the rumor is that Joni's appearance this summer is pending Kilauren's due date, supposed to be around that time. I will get more info. Hope it's true, but let's consider it all rumor until one of us checks into the list with more. - --DD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:29:06 -0400 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC bob flicked the birdie back in michael's left court: Yeah, but it's sad that you HAVE to look and dig for the good stuff now - it used to be that I could flip on the radio and hear a wide variety of good stuff this gets said a lot on list, and i get a little bit irritated. radio seemed wonderful to me in the '70s, but i don't think the music was any better than it is now. radio is the problem, and if you expect to hear the best music that way you will be disappointed. i never once heard jane siberry on the radio. and there were huge gaps in what radio did play years ago. in the '60s i waited avidly for each supremes, jacksons, and especially aretha single to break. but when i first discovered etta james in the late '80s, especially her brilliant '67 lp tell mama, i thought 'why didn't i hear this stuff on the radio when it was released?' i know she had some regional hits, but in my market (the sf bay area) i don't think she was heard much. although janis was certainly a devoted disciple. patrick, enjoying the thread of editorializing about people's responses, toying with 'kakki, flicking one lock over an eye veronicalakish, scoots the mouse with the stem of her wineglass until the larryklein cursor rests over the reply all button...' np - donna summer - lush life ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:29:30 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re[MD]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC TRIVIA ANSWER: Bye Bye Love, in the 3rd chorus of "In France..." LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:55:21 -0400 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: joni this summer? kakki enthused, nay, one would have to say bubbled: WOW - this is all new news! I can't wait to hear more. What is "Summerstage"? just as rumors go, this one sounds good. summerstage is the name of a series of free live performances in central park every summer, mostly in july. dance companies, mid-range popular performers, lots of worldmusic. nusrat played it a couple of years before he died. last year, one of the coolest sounding bills was dar williams and toshi reagon, which i missed. one of the best summerstage events i've seen was a blues afternoon with ruth brown etc. summerstage is also the name of the temporary space, a stage and bleachers set up in rumsey playfield near 72nd street. summerstage also presents about two or three ticketed benefit concerts a summer, and i bet this one would be, even if joni didn't show. annie lennox' live in central park concert, a few years back, was a summerstage benefit. still, the weak link in this rumour is kilauren being 7 months pregnant. hard to imagine this list of obsessives would have missed that. patrick jfp - sinead - never get old ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 21:01:26 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: (NJC) Colorodo, gun control and the opinions of Americans From: MDESTE1@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:00:00 EDT Gina, the biggest factor which determines ones perception is usually the facts filtered through belief. The "poor" read very little because they either cant afford the sources or they lack the true interest and willingness to learn. The "poor" that can and do make the effort in fact can become knowledgeable. having said that all studies have demonstrated beyond a doubt that a vast majority of Americans (a) consider themselves to be informed and (b) obtain most of the information by which they formulate their opinions from (are you ready) Television. There is an organization which literally tapes all news and related programming which purports to inform the American people and they analyze the content for factual accuracy and disclosure. I enclose an attachment for your interest. the subject is the recent Littleton incident. WWW.MRC.ORG is a site that if you go there weekly and take the time to read their analysis you will be (a) shocked how biased TV is and (b) find it difficult to argue. There used to be a saying of the Anti-war movement in the 60's that said "Question authority". Today far too many people refuse to accept facts and real information because it confronts their prejudices. Their "authority" has become a very left biased media and they never question whether what they are getting is complete information or only those facts which push an agenda. Sincerely, Marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 23:05:29 -0400 From: patrick leader Subject: (jc) central park and on jane siberry's website NEW YORK CITY July 1st Central Park JONI MITCHELL TRIBUTE Joni's Jazz: A benefit for the Central Park SummerStage outdoor concert series. In a special concert to honor the music of Joni Mitchell, Jane Siberry will join band leader Vernon Reid and fellow guest vocalists Chaka Khan, Joy Askew, Holly Cole, Eric Anderson, John Kelly, Duncan Sheik, PM Dawn, and Jon Hendricks with Annie Ross, among others. The song list will include pieces from 'Court and Spark' through 'Mingus.' Proceeds will support the Central Park SummerStage series, which enters its 14th year in 1999. Jane will be doing one or two songs. Tickets: A limited number of tickets will be available for donation only. Details coming soon on how to obtain tickets. PLEASE NOTE: Unless otherwise specified, tickets for performances are NOT sold through SHEEBA. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:28:40 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: (jc) central park Thank you Patrick! Ashara dear, can we possibly move Jonifest up to 4th of July weekend ;-D Kakki, so many concerts and parties to attend, so little time AHHHHH! > NEW YORK CITY > July 1st > Central Park > JONI MITCHELL TRIBUTE > Joni's Jazz: A benefit for the Central Park SummerStage outdoor concert > series. > In a special concert to honor the music of Joni Mitchell, ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:41:09 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC I started responding to this thread with my picks, and then realised I'm far to judgemental, and biased to express a completely dispassionate view! It's also incredibly difficult to look at music in terms of simple chronological decades. For example, I think of 1965 - 1975 as very different from the 5 years before and after (ie. 1960-65 and 1976-80). It also depends on what you're asking, ie. the best artists, the most popular, or the most influential - these are three very different concepts. But anyway, I'll try and answer with a combination of the best/most popular: The 50's, I wouldn't have a clue - wasn't born until the mid-60's, and don't really like much of what came out of the 50's. The 60's: Bob Dylan as solo artist, and The Beatles as the group. The 70's: easy, Joni as solo artist. The group is a little harder, but probably Fleetwood Mac. The 80's: Michael Jackson (even though I can't STAND his music - but I'm trying to be unbaised!). The group would probably be U2. The 90's: This is where it gets really hard, because I haven't paid much attention to music in the 90's, apart from new releases from established artists (like the ones mentioned above). But if push comes to shove, then probably.... no, I honestly have no idea! All my friends are into 90's music - like Will Smith, Celine Dion, Matchbox 20, etc. etc., but most of it just leaves me cold - no poetry, no emotion, which is normally how I judge an artist. Maybe I should ask them, and come back with their thoughts! Helen NP - Jonatha Brooke - 10c Wings (I finally found one of her CD's, and now I understand the fuss everyone has been making. Only recently discovered the Indigo Girls too - where have I been? Oh, that's right, I don't listen to 90's music!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 23:48:04 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: (jc) central park NJC In a message dated 5/4/1999 11:42:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << > NEW YORK CITY > July 1st > Central Park > JONI MITCHELL TRIBUTE > Joni's Jazz: A benefit for the Central Park SummerStage outdoor concert > series. > In a special concert to honor the music of Joni Mitchell, >> Guess where I am going..anyone else? We can have a carpool or maybe even rent a large van. I have a ford explore but it only fits 5. I want a ton of us from the list to go together any one else?????? Catgirl...figuring it is a NJC since I did not metion her name...who knows, I can't figure it out! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:51:16 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: enduring influence & topic: artistic greatness >topic for discussion: what comprises greatness in an artist? I submit that >what makes an artist great is the fact that they communicate transparently. >Joni Mitchell does that. Her heart is out there. She has a following (and a >discussion list) because she can make you feel what she's feeling, or she so >perfectly expresses what we have felt, or are feeling. What do you think? I've always thought a "great artist" is someone who puts the heart and soul into their music. I always think of Joni in terms of her comments at the Isle of Wight festival "we've got our lives wrapped up in it (the music)", which sums things up quite well. Another example is the CSN box-set. For nearly every song, they've described the circumstances of how it got written, and most of them were in direct response to something that happened to them that day. For example, Neil Young seeing the copy of Life magazine with the Kent State photos, and sitting down in silence, then picking up a guitar and 20 minutes later, there was "Ohio". Recorded the next day, and released within the week! Or Graham Nask breaking up with Joni, and writing "Simple Man" the next day, and performing it for the first time that evening, with Joni in the audience! I've been on this band-wagon before (someone stop me!) but it's the reason I'll always prefer singer-songwriters to those that "cover" songs (and I stress the word "prefer" - I don't want to start that argument again)! Anyway, I better stop before my keyboard gets me in trouble! Helen NP - still Jonatha Brooke - 10c wings (and still just as good!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:57:27 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: NJC - Clarification NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC Catgirl wrote: >Great point Bob. I am know living in a constant fear of pissing people off. >I feel safer just keeping it all NJC for fear of getting others riled! Then >as well I might ask a question basically to the whole gruop ( and I guess in >the future say ...anyone know anything about this artist,etc) and that is >not acceptable either. This list certainly can be tough! >Catgirl...slings and arrows coming my way...DUCK! I originally went the "onlyJoni" way, simply to try and cut down on the number of mail messages I was getting, but I felt far too left out. The paranoia grew ("they're all talking about me, behind my back"!), so I resubscribed to the Joni list. And you know, it's funny, how many threads start out totally NJC, and eventually work their way back around to Joni again - the Circle Game in action, folks! But at the end of the day, that's why we're all here, isn't it! Helen NP - Boys on the Side - Soundtrack (currently Indigo Girls - Power of Two. What a great song!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 23:33:12 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: (Maybe NJC) Suzanne Vega's replies to her fans From: "Wally Kairuz" Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 01:54:34 -0300 I've just checked Suzanne Vega's website at http://www.vega.net/ It's amazing to see the dozens and dozens of posts that Vega has sent to the list, offering information on the multitude of topics that her fans are discussing, from lyrics to concert information to trivia. I think this site deserves your attention jonilisters. Vega is not only a very accomplished artist but, it seems, a very down-to-earth and grateful artist too. WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 23:43:02 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: That all-important subject line... At 5/4/99 07:52 PM , Kleronomos@aol.com wrote: >But to ignore the guidelines by not putting NJC in the subject >line (I thought it had to be the FIRST thing in the subject line to be >rejected from the Joni-only list) is definately inconsiderate. Actually... it can be anywhere in the subject line. ANY occurence of those three letters in a row will ban the post from the onlyJoni options. >I think it's so cool for our hosts to provide us with two lists to choose >from! It would be nice if people remembered to play by the rules, so it >works as it was intended. Thanks and thanks... I couldn't have said it better myself! Les NP - Jim Hall and Pat Metheny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 23:58:03 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: new e-mail address/how could I live w/o y'all?! From: "Deborah Finora" Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 00:47:08 -0400 This is only my second post; my first one, some of you may remember, was a somewhat cynical one, decrying the use of the digest as a soapbox for diatribes on what it meant to be pc. I received some very nice mail from other listers, encouraging me not to give up the list, and to keep the faith, giving me helpful advice on how to avoid incurring the wrath of other subscribers who have spilled their lives over the waves like ink in a diary , how to sift through the NJC mail and how to list mine (should I decide to try again) as such, which I totally misinterpreted..duh. It was not long after that that the subject of therapy caught my eye, and as I have been in therapy for a number of years, I really latched onto that subject. I started thinking, "Hmm, maybe they've got a point with all these motley conversations...". Then, Kosovo became a leading conversation starter and I was grateful for the many varied opinions and the idea, that if the joni-digest could represent a microcosm, there could be dialogue among even the most opposite viewpoints. And then, the sorrow of Littleton, and I wept with all of you, wondering amid frightening confusion and some sort of weird, misplaced guilt, that we may have desensitized ourselves to the reality of what America has become. And now, Oklahoma City, with a new disaster--no, not new, just different...and it's not that I've forgotten Joni (no, never that!), but you provide so much more than "hey, it's Hejira or nothing!" or "no, it's Blue!" or "nothing can beat C&S!"...the old address is gone, so is the opinion that global/national/"irrelevant topics" have no business among the subjects discussed. I wanted to get my e-mail address re-submitted so I would miss no more diatribes, hissy-fits, arguments, sincere outpourings, jokes (loved the Zsa Zsa Gabor reference--was it Wally?), updates, and oh yes, more news about um, Joni! Isn't she great?! Now, remind me, what does "np" mean? It took me a few days, to realize what "IMO" and "IMHO" meant! This is the hardest part to me--translating all the little codes and references; I'm still so new at this... But since I have nothing more to add right now other than "Thank you all for sharing your insights, anecdotes, and lives!", I'll leave with the hope that, tomorrow, there will be another volume for me to peruse and enjoy! Thanks again! Deborah Finora (Is it possible to get the issues that were bumped? I miss them! And, besides, I want to know what you guys were talking about!!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 02:01:31 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC) Picking the "artist(s) of the decade(s)" is fundamentally boring to me because everybody basically picks one or another from a list of obvious choices. Nico's _The Marble Index_, for example, is perhaps my single favorite album of the '60s, but I wouldn't even bother making a case for her as artist of the decade. However, I'd much rather read about somebody like Nico (actually, there *is* nobody like Nico, but you take my meaning?) for the first time than about Bob Dylan for the eight-billionth time. So, with that in mind, how about.... unappreciated, obscure, specialized, unique artist(s) of the decade(s)? Artists who would never in a million years appear on "artist(s) of the decade(s)" lists? It seems something new might actually come from lists like that. (I'll send in my choices presently, if the thread goes anywhere.) - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 00:31:17 -0600 From: evian Subject: NJC Artists of the Decade NJC NJC NJC(NJC) Ok, I am coming on late to this thread since I haven't had time to read all of the posts. I really can't commit to just one artist for each decade. While I agree that both Prince and Madonna are a toss up for the 80's (I can still remember the first time I heard "When Doves Cry" - -- honestly, I got chills, and I remember watching Madonna on "New York Hot Tracks, thinking "when I grow up, I am going to NYC and marrying her"), I find it hard to name a defining band of the era. So, for the early 80's, I am going to go out on an unpopular limb and say that, from a pop culture standpoint alone, Duran Duran really changed the face of music -- Just look at the new romantic/new wave movement explosion after they hit North America. I also vote for X for the early 80's... can anyone put it better than Exene during the Regan years with "It was better before they voted for whats-his-name/ this is supposed to be the new world?" As for the second half of the '80's, my vote is for U2, although this could just be because they were a band that I came of age with, and I still can't listen to their first 5 albums without being taken back in time. In the '80's, I was influenced by such a diverse selection of music -- new wave, goth, and funk were admittedly my favorite music of choice, so I hold the Cure, New Order, the Smiths, Echo and the Bunnymen, the Chamelions, Bauhaus, Talk Talk, Midnight Star, Kool and the Gang, Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam, Sisters of Mercy, and especially Skinny Puppy, etc. close to my heart, but to pick a definitive artist, from a pop culture standpoint, it has to be Madonna and Prince. You know, I loved the 80's with a passion for the music... and while purists gag, I would rather hear the Eurythmics than Dylan! As for the 90's, I was a fan of "Nevermind", and maybe from a pop culture perspective, it is album of the decade. However, Hole's Live Through This and Celebrity Skin mean a lot more to me, and are better albums IMO, than anything Nirvana has ever done... but then again, that's just me. I prefer OK Computer, myself, to Nevermind, but for me, album of the decade so far is Lauryn Hill. And to go backwards and comment on the 70's, and again from a pop culture standpoint, like em or not, Bee Gees really opened a whole new can of worms. Same goes for the Clash. Never really "got" the Sex Pistols -- I know they were important, but didn't do a damn thing for me. Joni was the best artist, IMO, of the 70's, but I admit, Hotel California and Rumours are still played ad nauseum at my house (Stevie Nicks being the goddess of love that she is, who can resist? ;) ) Ok, enough of my rambling -- just had to say that I really enjoy this thread! Evian np: "life in a northern town" -- Dream Academy (they played this on "King of the Hill" tonight, and so I have had it on continuous play ever since!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 00:34:18 -0600 From: evian Subject: 5 recent purchases (NJC) 5 recent purchases: Tragically Hip -- Phantom Power Herbie Hancock -- Gershwin's World Sheryl Crow -- Globe Sessions Eurythmics -- Savage (finally got it on cd... yay!) Various Artists -- Only Love 1985-89 Evian ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #201 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. 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