From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #200 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, May 4 1999 Volume 04 : Number 200 TapeTree #8 is ready to roll. To sign up go to: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- 5 recent purchases [M.Russell@iaea.org] Open Letter [evian ] RE: Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) ["Eric Taylor" ] Re[3]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] NJC RE: This Illegal War [Don Sloan ] Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC) [David Wright ] Re[4]: (NJC NJC NJC) Artist (s) of the Decade (s) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel] RE: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC) [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Re[5]: (NJC NJC NJC) Artist (s) of the Decade (s) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel] Re: Re[MD]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Laura Allen (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re[2]: Re[MD]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.c] Re: (NJC) [MD]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) ["Kakki" ] Today in Joni History - May 5 [Today in Joni History ] RE: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] RE: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Re: (NJC) Joni and the Everlys ["Kakki" ] RE: (NJC) the '90s don't suck THAT bad [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Info. on Montreal (NJC) [Mary Pitassi ] Re[2]: (NJC) Joni and the Everlys [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: (NJC) the '90s don't suck THAT bad [MDESTE1@aol.com] NJC - Clarification [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Re[2]: (NJC) Joni and the Everlys ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC - Clarification ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:36:10 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: 5 recent purchases Bruce Cockburn - Bruce Cockburn Night Vision - Bruce Cockburn XO - Elliott Smith Plumb - Jonatha Brooke When I Was A Boy - Jane Siberry Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 01:35:18 -0600 From: evian Subject: Open Letter > I had been wondering just how long it would take for the only-Joni list to > be compromised by people who just couldn't restrain themselves and keep > their NJC posts off the only-Joni list. > This post seems to be tinged with "you are all trying to stomp onto the JC only list".... However, it is most likely that we merely forget to tag posts with NJC. Yes, I know, there shouldn't be any excuse for this since we have been reminded to always put the tag in posts, but when a big thread of current events is occurring, such as the Colorado and War threads, and posting is quite heavy, and digests seem to arrive 2 at a time, it is an honest mistake to forget to mark the JC/NJC. As well, it is still hard to determine whether or not something is JC or NJC -- if we make a slight mention of Joni, such as in the influencial artists of the '90's, should this be posted to the JC list? If we mention that in the last five cds we have purchases that one of them was Joni, does that constitute Joni content, even though the rest of the thread doesn't mention Joni? I for one will try to be more careful to keep the njc on njc. However, I will post this one to both lists. Thank you for your polite request Deb. Your post is more effective than singling out one person for forgetting the NJC tag and reprimanding him/her on-list, rather than privately, with a snarky retort, which certainly has occurred in the past, and still seems to occur. However, if we slip up (which we certainly will), JC'ers -- be patient and remind us again -- privately and politely -- and we will try to be more careful. Evian np: "Faith" -- the Cure (not JC, but still darn good). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 04:03:39 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: RE: Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Trey wrote: <<>> Michael responded: <> No doubt Madonna. *The Artist Formally Known As Prince* needs an attitude adjustment! Yes, When Doves Cry was a definative 80's tune. So was the movie Purple Rain. But Madonna blows Prince away with Vogue & Evita. & Ray Of Light approaches Joni's finest. Meanwhile, *The Artist Formally Known As Prince* thinks he can get away with regurgitating past recordings.... U2 is definately my choice for the band of the 80's (seriously listen to Achtung Baby & call me in the morning). My choice for the band of the 90's is unquestionably the Dave Matthews Band. *Lie In Our Graves* & *Repunzel* restore my faith in Rock & Roll.... E.T. NP: U2, SALOME' remix ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 04:31:09 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: open letter (NJC) In a message dated 5/3/99 11:05:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 68coyotes@onms.com writes: << don't give a damn about gun control or Bob Dylan concerts or anything else off topic. >> wow.. dylan i can understand not giving a damn about .. but gun control? i guess maybe you don't feel the same sense of worldly emergency that some of us do. like you, i'd love to do nothing but discuss joni and her music. it has just become a little more difficult to do so lately. i guess there are other places to air out these emotions, but i just find this joni-clan to be so bright and eloquent. i've learned so much from it all. that's all... trey NP - trouble child (how ironic) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 05:23:19 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: NJC ban guns, solve the problem? evil white guys? CatGirl makes a good point: <> Anyone who doesn't favor banning handguns (& more importantly, semi-automatic weapons) is parinoid in my opinion. Especially considering that Mace is so much more effective in debilitating stupid fucks. If America's founders had foreseen the advent of weapons of mass-destruction, I swear the Second Amendment would read differently. I - a semi-white guy - learned to shoot a gun at deer when I was 14. Now I feed a herd of deer 2#'s of cracked corn every day in my suburban neighborhood. & neighbor's don't like it one bit because deer eat their expensive flowers and supposedly spread Lymes disease. A funny thing about testoterone. Recent studies show that bisexual males have the highest levels of testosterone, followed by homosexuals. According to these studies, heterosexual men have the lowest level of testosterone (I'd be happy to provide anyone with this study but realize that guys who need to read it most are already convinced that they are superior & don't need to know better). Sorry for being so cyninal.... E.T. NP: Borderline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 11:30:20 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Most inappropriate Joni song of the day That was so weird -- I had just listened to "Let the Wind Carry Me" (FTR) for the 50,000th time since I bought FTR last month and thought about this beautiful image at the end of the song, when they aired the first pictures of Oklahoma City/Kansas. Any JMDLer living out there? Hope you are all O.K., along with your families, friends and communities. Take care. Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 06:36:15 EDT From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: questions of legality re Kosovo, gun rights (NJC, long) We shouldn't care whether the war on Serbia is legal or not. Let's forget about countries and ethnicities and issues of sovereignty and take a hard look at the fact that one Balkan nation has been carrying out an ethnic cleansing program since the fall of the Soviet Empire. That program has meant the murder and expulsion of hundreds of thousands and that is plain, dead wrong. If the question of legality is applied to all foreign affairs, then the Nazis had the right to persecute, enslave and murder all Jews, ethnic minorities and gays within their borders. Tragically, the Nazi Germans succeeded all too well in their goals for over a decade because of the kind of thinking evident in a post from Al Date. What the Nazis did to the Jews, etc., was seen in this country by many people as Germany's own internal affair. In the view of many Americans and politicians at the time, the United States should have remained neutral about a "European war." Sadly, it took an attack on the United States by the allies of the Germans before America came around. If someone were attempting to murder or victimize me, I would want someone who could help me to do so instead of ponder whether it was legal or not to come to my aid. Hopefully, the United Nations will truly evolve into a world government where we are all citizens of the world, and a serious crime against another human doesn't take into consideration outmoded ideas of nationality. We are all one people living on this planet. Milocevich makes a typical clannish mistake in assuming the Serbs are a separate people and that those who are not Serbs are lesser-than-Serbs and should be killed and brutalized. It's a sad situation that NATO didn't do anything when the Serbs were expelling and killing the other "minorities" within what the Serbs laid out as their borders. We should be happy that at least something is happening now as the Serbs are finally opposed in their latest wave of aggression. Milocevich is the tyrant in charge of an efficient, cooperating army which has carried out his plans to kill or expel the perceived minorities in Serbia for many years. Certainly many Serbians are opposed to ethnic cleansing, but Milocevich would not have been successful at implementing his scheme without the cooperation of his countrymen. My hero George McGovern campaigned in 1972 to end the US war on what was then North Viet Nam, a war that was wrong for so many reasons. A short time later, he was for returning troops to nearby Cambodia when it was evident that millions of people were being killed by Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. But America had no "interests" in Cambodia, no available markets, no desire to return to a morass in South East Asia. Sadly, few people in America or elsewhere had little interest in stopping the Cambodian genocide that nearly equaled that of the European Jews. A matter of 4 million murders was just a statistic and the Cambodian's own problem. It has been a very short while since the US and NATO began their campaign against Serbia. Wars usually take years. This idea that it's not working is a result of the instant effects we achieved in the war on Iraq. The campaign for the Kosovars will not fail, but even if were to, the citizens of the world have the obligation to show the Hitlers, Pol Pots and Milocevich's of the world, "We oppose you, and we will fight what you do." Better to go down trying for what is right then not do anything. This same kind of retrograde thinking which falls back on legal procedure and adherence to certain documents is what's behind the issue of gun owner's rights. Members of the NRA cling to the Second Amendment as if it were carved into stone by the finger of God, or as if the Bill of Rights can't be altered. It can be, and it has been. Much has been made about whether the 2nd amendment was related to guns for a militia -- an army of citizens -- or just citizens. Either way, it doesn't matter, because what has been proven all too tragically at Columbine, is that people will use guns irresponsibly. Where there are guns, there are dangers. No nation is free of violence, but the statistics are irrefutable -- gun control works. My right and your right to life is more important than someone's right to own, sell or manufacture hand guns or an automatic weapon like the one used in Colorado because eventually those weapons will fall into the wrong hands. Only a blind idiot would try and dispute that now -- it's human nature to kill. Guns make it very easy for us to give into our murderous impulses or to carry out schemes. Regardless of its recent problems with bombs, Great Britain has a fraction of our homicide rate. It is also a nation of hunters where sportsmen (I hate to call it that) have the right to use and own rifles, the Royal Family being prominent among them. To those who are stupidly mentioning the obvious, that something has gone wrong in the raising of those who abuse these weapons, get a fucking clue. The horse is out of the barn. We can't re-parent an entire generation, but we can take away their access to guns. NP in my head: BORDERLINE - "Every bristling shaft of pride, every nation, team or tribe, every notion we subscribe to is just a borderline." Clark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 06:57:11 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC Bob wrote: <<>> This from someone who still has yet to commit to a '90s solo artist?!? ;-) No, I still think _OK Computer_ is the superior album to _Nevermind_ (which would be in a decade top ten for me, BTW). _MTV Unplugged in New York_ and _In Utero_ are much more accomplished than _Pablo Honey_ and _The Bends_, however. Radiohead is just now hitting its stride, but Nirvana produced an amazingly consistent and influential body of work in a short period of time, all of which happened to fall in the '90s AND mark a break from the dominant sounds of the '80s (though some groundwork was laid then--Pixies, Husker Du, R.E.M., etc.). We are beginning to see creative fallout from Radiohead's success (Remy Zero to Nirvana's Silverchair, e.g.), but I think that's only beginning and will more hallmark rock at the beginning of the next decade than this one. Furthermore, Nirvana broke at a time when influencing rock (narrowly defined) amounted to influencing pop music in general. Timbaland (the hip-hop producer) has done more to affect the sounds we hear across the board than Radiohead in the past couple of years, because hip-hop is the most widely heard pop music of the moment. Rock may not be dead, but it is taking a bit of a disco nap. Radiohead's influence is affected by that. Of course, it just occurred to me that Massive Attack and Portishead should both be in the running for this slot. Obviously decades are too arbitrary to settle on a real choice, but the discussion is illuminating... - --Michael, encouraged NP: Sleater-Kinney, _The Hot Rock_ (not a bad candidate for band of the decade, either, except they don't sell enough records, FWIW) - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:12:08 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Mark sez: << Blondie didn't come til the end of the decade but they sure shook things up and helped rejuvenate rock when it was becoming stagnant. And they did it with wit and style.>> I liked Blondie OK but all they really did was "Parallel Lines" and "Eat to the Beat" - they were more "jumpers on the bandwagon" than they were innovators, using punk/new wave, then releasing "Rapture" when that genre became the fad of the day...I don't see them as leaders but rather as followers. The only exception to that is that "Eat to the Beat" was the first full-length album video, so they were pioneers of a kind after all. And the 70's were an incredibly rich decade - it may even be a good idea to split it up into a couple time segments, or genres. > > > 80's: Solo - k d lang > > > Band - Talking Heads or The Pretenders k d's first record sounded like rock-a-billy meets kick-butt punk. Shadowlands & Absolute Torch & Twang established her as one of the great singers of the century. David Byrne & Talking Heads were pushing the envelope and mixing all kinds of things up in the 80's. Remain in Light is an amazing hybrid of musical genres and Stop Making Sense is one of the great all time rock movies. Chrissie and the Pretenders put intelligence and heart into hard-edged rock and took it to another level.>>> Great picks all! Add to Talking Heads credit their incredibly creative videos (they were all visual artists first, after all), and Byrne's integration of South American sounds into the mix, as well as their side projects.(Tom Tom Club, etc) > > 90's: Solo - Lucinda Williams > > Band - REM Lucinda is a force to be reckoned with who defies categorization. REM are one of the great rock groups of all time and some of their 90's work is innovative & classic. Automatic for the People alone qualies them for the top prize.>> Or "Out of Time"...and their approach to touring where EVERY show is a unique entity, not a pre-programmed event but rather a separate artistic statement. Also their work with charities and causes and also helping other small bands out, and I'm sure I'm leaving out some stuff... And I love Lucinda but two records in a decade just ain't enough to qualify - as great as they are! All just my opinion of course... Bob NP: Elton John, "Razor Face" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:32:25 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[3]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC <> While I obviously agree with the selection, isn't Achtung Baby a 90's work? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:59:41 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Re[2]: (NJC NJC NJC) Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Bob pontificated: <<>> I agree that band-of-the-decade is a step too far for Blondie, but they are justly legends IMO. You can't talk about punk without talking about the legendary NYC club CBGB's, and you can't talk about CBGB's and overlook Blondie anymore than you could Patti Smith, Television or the Heads. Blondie were a poppy but crucial part of that scene, due in no small part to Debbie Harry's undeniable charisma. And "Rapture" was hardly bandwaggon-hopping. It was done as a tribute to the hip-hoppers just then exploding on the NYC scene much before mainstream American caught on en masse. Blondie is widely credited *in the hip-hop community* for helping break hip-hop commercially. Debbie's rap ("Flash is fast, Flash is cool") was sampled by its name-checkee Grandmaster Flash in his "Adventures of Grandmaster Flash and the Wheels of Steel." Debbie was even invited to participate in the recent hip-hop recreation of the classic jazz-artists-in-Harlem photograph. And Bob--hip-hop a "fad of the day"? That's been some 16-year-long day!! ;-) - --Michael, reminding everyone to label NJC - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:00:17 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: 5 Recent Purchases Hello All Jazz Fest is over and we made it thru unscathed. A wonderful time was had by all and there was two weeks of great music. I topped off my fest seeing Govt Mule and the Meters Sunday night and then Govt Mule again at Tower Records yesterday for an in store (for which I helped with the production + made board and room recordings to dat), Warren and his wife Stephanie, and Matt and Woody have become good friends and we had a good time talking about their new record coming in Sept. They have a new song called Bad Little Doggie that we (Louisiana JukeBox) may have a chance at shooting the video for them. Here are my five latest purchases: Jazz Takes On Joni Mitchell-David Lahm Live With A Little Help From Our Friends-Govt Mule CPR American Garage-Pat Metheny (had to get it on CD) The Chieftains Best wishes, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:23:49 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[3]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC Michael chides: <> Ok, 'ya got me on that one, pal! :~) But although I haven't picked one, I CAN tell you it's not going to be BECK! P-U! < We are beginning to see creative fallout from Radiohead's success (Remy Zero to Nirvana's Silverchair, e.g.), but I think that's only beginning and will more hallmark rock at the beginning of the next decade than this one. And that's a good point - it's easy to look back at the first half of the 90's and pick up on the tremendous influence Nirvana has had, whereas Radiohead's influence is still burgeoning. I always thought OKComputer was the "Dark Side of the Moon" for the 90's, even before I read it somewhere else... << Obviously decades are too arbitrary to settle on a real choice, but the discussion is illuminating...>> AND fun, which is my real goal (besides introducing some non-gun options for discussion ;~D) Bob NP: Tom Waits, "What Keeps Mankind Alive?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 08:46:20 -0700 From: Don Sloan Subject: NJC RE: This Illegal War Thanks to Al Date for pointing out these facts and asking some hard questions at the end of the post. If this is such a righteous, holy war we've started, spending billions killing innocent men, women and children (many, many more than you are seeing on the evening news, I assure you), then why was the action not initiated by the U.N.? I remember Kent State; I remember Viet Nam. Maybe we will have to see American kids coming home in body bags before we wake up and demand that we get the hell out of this centuries-old mess. But of course, that's why the bombing approach - hard to create successful spin on CNN when your friends and neighbors - maybe your son or daughter - come home from the crusades in a bag. Don Al Date wrote: > As far as the US Constitution is concerned, it does not matter whether US troops are engaged in conflict > by themselves or in coalition with NATO or any other organization. > > The Constitution is still the supreme law of the land. 17 Congressmen, including my rep Tom Campbell, > have filed suit to have the war declared illegal, since it does not have a declaration of support from > Congress (required by the War Powers Act.) > > On top of that, this action is a violation of the NATO Charter, which defines NATO as a defensive > organization, and limits its actions to NATO countries under attack. Yugoslavia is not a NATO member. > > Finally, the attack violates the United Nations Charter itself, which requires any attack like this to be > authorized by the Security Council. The only exception is when a sovereign nation is under attack by > another one and must defend itself immediately. Of course, that is not the case here. What is the case > is that we have entered a civil war, with bad guys on both sides--like in ANY CIVIL WAR. > > No matter how you slice it, this attack is ILLEGAL, under every available jurisdiction. > When the World Court hears the appeals of the Serbs, it will declare the war illegal--and our government > will ignore the ruling. > > So what? I hear you say. > > The US government has effectively placed itself outside its own Constitution, and snubbed its nose at > international law! > > We are now the bullies of the world. Our leaders may have good intentions in Kosovo, but has their course > of action accomplished anything but the acceleration of evil actions? Further, is it worth the cost of > establishing more precedents of international lawlessness? What is there to guarantee that unrestrained > political leaders will always have good intentions in the global theater? > > How can we claim a moral high-ground against terrorists and ethnic-cleansers, when we AS A NATION > lawlessly slaughter innocent civilians remotely, and dismiss it as "collateral damage?" > > > - --Al Date > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:57:56 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC) Just a couple things: I think a case could be made for James Brown over Dylan as solo artist of the '60s. And I (predictably) think PJ Harvey is hands-down the solo artist of the '90s, but, I admit, among the many other artists for whom equally good cases can be made are Bjork and Beck. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 10:58:29 -0600 From: katej Subject: more from murray "The show itself was macabre. The arena acoustics were about what you'd expect--terrible!... When Joni got up to play, she was, of course, solo. There was a fair amount of din in the area from the people who were there just to be there. A common characteristic all audiences exhibit when they are served something up for free is that they tend not to pay any respect to what they are seeing. Maybe the mind makes the connection that if it didn't cost anything, it isn't worth anything. There was a hard core of tough Quebecois girls in the arena who were not impressed by her at all--to the point where several of them could be heard quite plainly yelling 'Fuck you, English blonde bitch!' It was a tough and seemingly ungrateful crowd. And, of course, the first stages of the James Bay project went ahead... It was with a bit of coke-inspired courage mixed with good scotch that I decided to call Joni in her room that night, after the concert was over. She was by herself when I called and said to come on up and hang out. For awhile, it was talk, talk, talk, and being a bit coked, I was fairly intense, I suppose. I did a sketch of her, which I still have in a book of loose creative stuff. It's a drawing of her with my old mailman's peaked cap perched on her head at a jaunty angle. At some point, I just blurted out 'Joni, I think I'm in love with you!' She looked at me for a short while. Not much was written on her face. 'Is it hanging you up?' she asked. I had a male acquaintance once who described something that had happened to him when he was being prepped for a hernia operation. A nurse had come in with the equipment for shaving the area where the operation was to take place. Try as he might to suppress the hydraulic reaction, when she began the process, he got a hard-on. She matter-of-factly gave the swelling appendage a light slap and rinsed him off with cold water, effectively putting an end to the incident. The way Joni asked her simple question had precisely the same effect on me. There was no mistaking it was the end of the issue. 'Nope!' I answered. I then went back downstairs to my room and wrote a desperate song about death and resurrection called 'Revelation.' It was a pretty good song actually." --Murray McLauchlan, Getting Out of Here Alive ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:26:10 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[4]: (NJC NJC NJC) Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Michael volleys: <> Does this mean I'm like the Pope or something?? :~) <> While all that's true, I think it's important to note that these bands rose to fame as part of a "scene", and as soon as the scene faded, the bands either evolved (The Heads) or dissipated (Television). My favorites Elvis C. & XTC rose in the British Punk/New Wave scene but had the talent to outlive it. I'm just not sure you can say the same for Blondie (the band), Chris Stein's health problems notwithstanding... And certainly not wanting to omit her, Patti Smith also survived and outlasted the scene she came up in - she has put out GREAT stuff in the 90's and has been sorely overlooked. <> We're kind of re-treading old ground here...as I recall, "Rapper's Delight" by The Sugarhill Gang was a HUGE hit prior to Rapper's Delight - I mean it played on the radio every 30 minutes! I was always of the opinion that Rapper's Delight was to the real deal what Pat Boone was to Fats Domino... <> Granted, but it WAS a fad when it first came out all those years ago...I remember in the 70's when Bob Marley hit big, everybody thought reggae was going to hit big and it never did. Hip-Hop, of course, is here to stay... Bob NP: John Zorn, "Der Kleine Leutnant" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:29:34 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Re: Artist(s) of the Decade(s) (NJC) David mentioned James Brown over Dylan, which had occurred to me. I still think Dylan gets the edge, but it would be just tragic not to mention Brown, who is a giant among giants. What he and Dylan did for music was so different it's almost impossible to evaluate them against each other. And what about Bowie for '70s? - --Michael - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:34:34 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[5]: (NJC NJC NJC) Artist (s) of the Decade (s) I said: <> That should be "Rapture" here, not Rapper's Delight... at least I got the NJC right... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:59:17 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[MD]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Bands of the Decades: Most Influential and best music. 50's Bill Haley and the Comets Everly Brothers Elvis Little Richard Jerry Lee Lewis [60's] Special mention...All the permutations of John Mayal and the Bluesbreakers Beatles Stones Jeff Beck's Yardbirds Jimi Hendrix Experience The Who [70's] Led Zepplin CSN&Y Pink Floyd James Brown Fleetwood mac [80's] Bruuuuce Bowie U-2 Michael Jackson The Police Special heartbeat...Annie Lennox [90's] Almost nothing of note except for those too young to have seen the real deals.Eerily reminiscent of the last music wasteland period in the early 50's when former Mousketeers and people like Pat Boone were stealing the songs from the original black artists and making millions while John Lee Hooker couldnt get a gig. Note people are actually holding Womens Music Festivals and celebrating Jewell and Tracy Chapman and not even inviting Joni Mitchell. When the Rolling Stones are touring and have an album in the Top Ten on Billboard and their drummer is 60 years old. Special note: in 3 years Chuck Berry will be entitled to receive Social Security. Sorry but the 90's suck. Last but not least an anecdote in support. Not too long ago I was a chaperone at a high school graduation dance. Except no one was dancing. these are kids that are 16-17-18. For the first hour after dinner no one is dancing. Much posturing, much laughter, some making out on the side BUT no dancing. Jewell, Morisette, Sheryl Crowe, Smashing Pumpkins, Rem, Hootie, head bangers, Hip Hop, several other modern popular rock bands. No dancing. So I stroll over to the DJ and I asked if he had any of that "old stuff". He looked up from his board and beamed. "You think this would work ?" It was that inimitable 16 year old Steevie Winwood doing "Gimme Some Lovin". "Lets try" said I. The experiment was to see whether or how long it would take for the kids to begin dancing. .By the time the bass had done its fourth lick roll the entire floor was hopping with kids who probably had no idea who the Spencer Davis Group was. The kids wanted him to play "that song" again. I looked into his bag of tricks and found Bob Seeger doing "That old Rock and Roll". The DJ took it from there and the kids danced to 30 to 50 year old songs the rest of the night. I even went out to my car just to get Raised on Robbery. One kid came all the way over to say "This new stuff is better to dance to". I rest my case. Marcel Deste. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:18:11 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Laura Allen (NJC) Would the person who posted info on new recordings by Laura Allen, a Cros crony, please e-me privately - a friend is interested. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 14:15:03 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Re[MD]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC Marcel declares: <> And you GOTTA add Chuck Berry, and probably Bo Diddley... Trivia: which Everly song does Joni quote? <<[60's] Special mention...All the permutations of John Mayal and the Bluesbreakers Beatles Stones Jeff Beck's Yardbirds Jimi Hendrix Experience The Who [70's] Led Zepplin CSN&Y Pink Floyd James Brown Fleetwood mac [80's] Bruuuuce Bowie U-2 Michael Jackson The Police Special heartbeat...Annie Lennox>> I would put Bruce in the 70's (his peak) and JB in the 60's (the same) <> The same thing happened at my son's middle school - the kids were basically stagnant until the DJ played "YMCA" (after a couple of kids had asked me to ask her), then the place went nuts... Bob NP: Elton John (70's powerhouse in his own right) "Grey Seal" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:34:38 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: (NJC) [MD]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Great choices, Marcel and I have a few to add: > Bands of the Decades: Most Influential and best music. > 50's > Bill Haley and the Comets > Everly Brothers > Elvis > Little Richard > Jerry Lee Lewis Buddy Holly and Sam Cooke > [60's] > Special mention...All the permutations of John Mayal and the Bluesbreakers (oooh yes!) > Beatles > Stones > Jeff Beck's Yardbirds > Jimi Hendrix Experience > The Who The Doors All permutations of Clapton, Winwood, Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young Van Morrison Byrds Personal faves: Moby Grape and Sons of Champlin > [70's] > Led Zepplin > CSN&Y > Pink Floyd > James Brown > Fleetwood mac Steely Dan The Cars > [80's] > Bruuuuce > Bowie > U-2 > Michael Jackson > The Police > Special heartbeat...Annie Lennox The Cure All permutations of Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins > [90's] > Almost nothing of note except for those too young to have > seen the real deals.Eerily reminiscent of the last music > wasteland period in the early 50's when former Mousketeers > and people like Pat Boone were stealing the songs from the > original black artists and making millions while John Lee > Hooker couldnt get a gig. This is such a bleak appraisal! Well, the 90s are almost over. Maybe we'll see another renaissance in the 00s. 90s - hmmm...REM, Rembrandts, Seal to name a few faves Liked your story of the school dance. But hey, a lot of us all stood around and didn't dance a lot back in the 60s-70s, too, except when either 50s rock or Jimi, Led Zep or the Doors were playing. Kakki NP: Kenny Rankin - Time and Love "don't let the devil fool you here comes a dove, nothing cures like time and love" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:54:00 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - May 5 1979: Today, Joni, Jane Fonda, Jackson Browne, Graham Nash, John Hall, Dan Fogelberg, John Sebastian and others appear in Washington DC at a "No-Nukes" rally. A few days later, the LA Times published a review of the event, saying "At an impromptu press conference following the afternoon program of music and speeches on the Capitol steps, four of the musicians—Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell, Graham Nash and John Hall—fielded questions about their involvement in the antinuclear movement. Deftly, but politely, they turned each question into an opportunity to respond with facts, figures and observations about the nuclear issue. Self-aggrandizement was not on the agenda." Read the full article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/latimes790508.htm Also, pictures and a review by Harry Hennessy can be found at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/NoNukes79.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:06:58 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC Marcel declares: <> And Bob added: <<>> And Ray Charles Marcel again: <<[60's] Special mention...All the permutations of John Mayal and the Bluesbreakers Beatles Stones Jeff Beck's Yardbirds Jimi Hendrix Experience The Who>>> Beach Boys, Aretha Franklin, Motown (in general), Velvet Underground <<<[70's] Led Zepplin CSN&Y Pink Floyd James Brown Fleetwood mac>>> Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Joni (obviously), David Bowie, Parliament/Funkadelic, Sex Pistols, Clash (maybe they belong in '80s?), Chic (?), Patti Smith Group, Big Star, Bob Marley, Sly and the Family Stone ('60s?), Stooges (ditto?) I cast my vote for the '70s as the best decade of popular recorded music thus far. <<<[80's] Bruuuuce Bowie U-2 Michael Jackson The Police Special heartbeat...Annie Lennox>>> Both the Eurythmics belong there, as do Maddie, Prince, the Heads, Elvis Costello, Public Enemy, the Beasties, Husker Du, Pixies, R.E.M., Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, KRS-One, Guns 'n' Roses, Smiths Basically the point is that there's been lots of great music if you're willing to look... - --Michael - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:07:22 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC Marcel declares: <> And Bob added: <<>> And Ray Charles Marcel again: <<[60's] Special mention...All the permutations of John Mayal and the Bluesbreakers Beatles Stones Jeff Beck's Yardbirds Jimi Hendrix Experience The Who>>> Beach Boys, Aretha Franklin, Motown (in general), Velvet Underground <<<[70's] Led Zepplin CSN&Y Pink Floyd James Brown Fleetwood mac>>> Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Joni (obviously), David Bowie, Parliament/Funkadelic, Sex Pistols, Clash (maybe they belong in '80s?), Chic (?), Patti Smith Group, Big Star, Bob Marley, Sly and the Family Stone ('60s?), Stooges (ditto?), Donna Summer I cast my vote for the '70s as the best decade of popular recorded music thus far. <<<[80's] Bruuuuce Bowie U-2 Michael Jackson The Police Special heartbeat...Annie Lennox>>> Both the Eurythmics belong there, as do Maddie, Prince, the Heads, Elvis Costello, Public Enemy, the Beasties, Husker Du, Pixies, R.E.M., Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, KRS-One, Guns 'n' Roses, Smiths, Pet Shop Boys Basically the point is that there's been lots of great music if you're willing to look... - --Michael - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:57:33 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: (NJC) Joni and the Everlys Bob wrote: > > Trivia: which Everly song does Joni quote? "Bye Bye Love"? "They're singing goodbye, baby, baby goodbye, ooo, ooo love is blind" Kakki NPIMH: Everly Bros. - Cathy's Clown ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:19:05 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: (NJC) the '90s don't suck THAT bad Marcel wrote: > Almost nothing of note except for those too young to have > seen the real deals.Eerily reminiscent of the last music > wasteland period in the early 50's when former Mousketeers > and people like Pat Boone were stealing the songs from the > original black artists and making millions while John Lee > Hooker couldnt get a gig. Not at all reminiscent of that--plenty of accomplished black musicians are hitting the top of the charts with their own damn songs. Sounds more like a grinding axe to me. To wit, hallmark artists of the '90s: Beck, Bjork, PJ Harvey, all permutations of Lauryn Hill and Wyclef Jean, Me'Shell NdegeOcello, Nirvana, Belle and Sebastian, Portishead, Massive Attack, Tricky, (some would say) Pavement, TLC, all permutations of Missy "Misdemeanor" Elliott and Timbaland, Sarah McLachlan (despite _Surfacing_), Ani DiFranco, Pearl Jam, Radiohead, Janet Jackson, Liz Phair, Sleater-Kinney, Notorious B.I.G., Dr. Dre. And how did I forget Sonic Youth for the '80s? The one thing that *is* somewhat unique to the '90s is the drastically increased lag-time between album releases, meaning many artists I'd like to include haven't established a large enough body of work yet to qualify, Erykah Badu and Rufus Wainwright chief among them. Lastly I'll point out that the list I have above is stylistically, racially, and gender-ly more diverse than for any other decade. - --Michael - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 14:43:03 -0500 From: Mary Pitassi Subject: Info. on Montreal (NJC) Sorry for a post that's absolutely NJC, but here's hoping the tag will get this one caught in the only-Joni list's filter. My question: I'm traveling to Montreal in a couple of weeks, and was wondering if any of our erstwhile Canadian listers (or anyone else with a healthy appreciation for the city) could recommend any sights, clubs, restaurants, museums, galleries etc. that just can't be missed. If you have any suggestions, please e-mail me privately. Thanks much! Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:46:37 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: (NJC) Joni and the Everlys Kakki identified: "Bye Bye Love"? Right song, only the quote is on "In France They Kiss on Main St." 'He'd be singing "Bye, Bye Love" while he's racking up his free play' - - the one you list below is from This Flight Tonight and I'm not sure what song, if any, it originally was... <<"They're singing goodbye, baby, baby goodbye, ooo, ooo love is blind">> Still, you win!! :~) Bob NP: Living Colour, "Funny Vibe" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:00:09 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC Michael reaches the conclusion: <> Yeah, but it's sad that you HAVE to look and dig for the good stuff now - it used to be that I could flip on the radio and hear a wide variety of good stuff; hopefully that trend is also reversing, I know there are glimmers of hope out there in the world of rock n' roll radio...it's funny, looking at the 50's, 60's, 70's lists of artists we came up with, they were all over the airwaves. By the 80's and especially in the 90's, it doesn't seem the same that the best music is getting heard. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:19:03 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) the '90s don't suck THAT bad That these probably are the "hallmark artists of the 90's" (hey I AGREE with you) really only proves the point. Last year or so Pearl jam played at Golden Gate Park. Eddie Vedder threw up on those loving fans in the Mosh pit. The band after its set backed Neil Young who did some of his chestnuts. WHAT A CONTRAST. Distinctive voice, distinctive songs as opposed to Pearl Jams pedestrian stuff in which each song sounded like the last one and that was a comment by a young kid next to me. I have fun with my younger co-workers by asking them on the spot to name 10 songs that their favorite artist wrote or even sings. I was amazed how none could come up with more than one maybe 2. A big difference from years ago and NO I dont have an ax to grind with anything except quality music. How could we have forgotten YOKO anyway..........a voice for the ages. Peace, marcel. NP. 1995 Grammy award winning Hillary Clinton spoken word version of "It Takes a Village" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:50:26 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: NJC - Clarification I thought about not labeling this as NJC, but did so that I didn't incur anybody's wrath...it's a question about list etiquette and not about Joni specifically. What happens when a thread turns from NJC to JC? Like what just happened with the Everly Brothers...one minute we're talking about 50's artists, the next we're looking at Everly quotes in a Joni song and the fact that it MIGHT be included in 2 of her songs, and all of a sudden the thread is totally JC...and who knows where it could go, into some in-depth Joni discussion, and all labeled as NJC My inclination is to maintain the NJC tag throughout the thread as it's like picking up the phone in mid-conversation; what is the general rule? Bob NP: Elton John, "Have Mercy on the Criminal" (probably my favorite non-hit of his) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:43:56 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Re[2]: (NJC) Joni and the Everlys Bob perplexified: > - the one you list below is from This Flight Tonight and I'm not sure what song, > if any, it originally was... > > <<"They're singing goodbye, baby, baby goodbye, ooo, ooo love is blind">> This is where Joni first expressed the germ of the idea until she got the clearances from Don and Phil ;-) > Still, you win!! :~) YAY! Kakki > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:50:09 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC - Clarification Bob wondered: > What happens when a thread turns from NJC to JC? Like what just > happened with the Everly Brothers...one minute we're talking about > 50's artists, the next we're looking at Everly quotes in a Joni song > and the fact that it MIGHT be included in 2 of her songs, and all of a > sudden the thread is totally JC...and who knows where it could go, > into some in-depth Joni discussion, and all labeled as NJC I felt the same hesitation and that's why I just labeled it NJC. Felt like laying low right now with what may be perceived as "tangential" JC. It's a dilemma. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #200 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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