From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #198 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, May 3 1999 Volume 04 : Number 198 TapeTree #8 is ready to roll. To sign up go to: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Back in the Fold (NJC) [catman ] a polite request.. [TreyCozy@aol.com] Great Children's Songs/Meeting Joni ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Recent Purchases (fwd) [Joseph Palis ] Musicians in Bob Dylan's current band (NJC) [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Back in the Fold (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: A provocative quesiton (NJC) ["Winfried Hühn" ] If It Were Up to Me [Steve Dulson ] My 5 CD's (JC) ["Barnicle, Kathryn" ] Re: A provocative quesiton (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Today in Joni History - April 30 [Today in Joni History ] This Month in Joni History - May [This Month in Joni History ] progress on fingernails [CarltonCT@aol.com] RE: A provocative question (NJC) [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] RE: NJC:Irony [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] excerpt from Murray's autobiography [katej ] Re: A provocative question (NJC) ["Winfried Hühn" ] Jonifest/Wally [Ashara@aol.com] Artist (s) of the Decade (s) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) [Mark Domyancich ] Today in Joni History - May 4 [Today in Joni History ] Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) ["Winfried Hühn" ] RE: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] RE: NJC Remy Zero [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] more from murray, about 4 years later [katej ] RE: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) [Brett Code ] Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) [TreyCozy@aol.com] njc busyness ["Wally Kairuz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 08:09:31 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Back in the Fold (NJC) Bounced Message wrote: > Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 21:22:35 -0700 > From: Lindsay Moon > > Just a hello to everyone from me, who had to un.su.bscribe a few months ago > due to overwhelming life busy-ness (is that a word??) yes-tho it is usually spelt business! And it means the same thing.welcome back! bw colin > Well, various things > have happened, some good, some not so good and I have now reached a point > of helplessness about certain things, a feeling that I was losing my soul. > I started listening to my Joni again, went to a Borders and sat reading, > feeling and smelling some books (I used to love to get lost in books stores > but haven't had time since kids, school, blah, blah) and -- damn it! -- > resubscribed to this list. I just can't be without it any longer! Thank > you all for being out there and such fun to hang around with (even if I > don't always pipe up). My best to you all. My soul is heaving a big sigh > of relief. > > Lindsay Moon - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 04:57:11 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: a polite request.. Hello all... It's Trey - the newcomer - again. After visiting the site about tape trees and such, I was told to come here and make a "polite" request at perhaps obtaining some back tapes - both audio and video. Please email me if you can "politely" help me out. All the best always... Trey np - Two Grey Rooms (wow - this song blows my mind...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:37:24 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Great Children's Songs/Meeting Joni Thank you so much for starting the children's songs thread, Alan. It gives me an excuse to tell my favourite Joni story. Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin. Last year I came across a review in an American magazine mentioning the theme song I had written for the children's television series of Jane Hissey's classic picture book stories, 'Old Bear', now shown in around 70 countries including the USA. On the same page I noticed a review for Canadian children's songwriter and mountain dulcimer player, Rick Scott, who had written a song called 'Angels Do' for his granddaughter who had been born with Down's Syndrome. Moved by his story I wrote to him sending him a copy of the notice. By return he sent me a CD of his Juno-nominated Best Children's Album 'Philharmonic Fool' and his video for 'Angels Do', which features his granddaughter, Mielle. To cut a long story short, I was totally knocked out by this and, with his agreement, have just released a promotional single of 'Angels Do' on my own small independent label in the UK. I have also invited him and his partner Valley Hennell over to the UK to play and give a series of workshops at an International Children's Song Festival I am organising in Covent Garden in mid-September. Now the Joni bit - in one of the many rave notices Rick sent me about his solo children's concerts and performances with the legendary Canadian folk group 'The Pied Pumkin String Ensemble', I noticed a short mention about being picked up by Joni Mitchell when hitchhiking back in the early seventies. Thinking myself the biggest Joni Mitchell fan in the world (until I came across you lot!!) I asked him to tell me the whole story. This is what he sent me:- "In 1971, I was hitchhiking with my wife Sue, my friend JR Stone and my dog Mousse, up the Sechelt (Sunshine) Coast of British Columbia. It was tough for three hippies and a dog to catch a ride, but after about half an hour a woman driving a beat up Ford Pinto pulled over. Big and shaggy, Mousse immediately climbed into the front seat and laid his head down on the driver's lap. JR slid in next to him, Sue and I got in the back and we headed off down the road. The woman was patting Mousse's head and complimenting us on what a nice dog he was. She asked us how far we were going...about 30 kilometres to Pender Harbour. Between her question and our ability to answer, there was a group realization that the driver was Joni Mitchell. Each of us took turns trying to articulate the name of our destination, but all that came out was stammering. When we finally managed to tell her, she said she could take us almost all the way but she had to stop off at Lord Jim's Lodge to pick up a friend. She said she might go to the pub but, if we were still hitchhiking when they came out, they would give us a ride the rest of the way. I think we just sat there staring at Joni Mitchell stroking Mousse's head. I was fantasizing that in the next life I might be lucky enough to come back as a dog. When we got to the turnoff she pulled over and as we were getting out she noticed my instrument case and asked what it was. When I told her it was a dulcimer she said, "Way out, can I see it?" The next thing I knew she was examining my dulcimer with great interest. JR Stone is a soft spoken North Carolina mountain man of few words, so I volunteered the information that he had built my instrument. She beamed at him and examined the dulcimer even more closely. After a few minutes she asked if he would build her one. With a great deal of difficulty he finally managed to answer, "Sure". As Joni left us, she renewed her offer to take us further later and asked JR where she could find him. We told her where we would be for the weekend. We couldn't believe what had just happened and didn't think we'd ever see her again. Nonetheless, we stopped hitchhiking and just stood by the road. An hour later she came back down the road with her friend in the passenger seat and stopped to pick us up. Paying no mind to the passenger, Mousse jumped straight onto his lap and settled back down with his head on Joni. We all squeezed in the back and she introduced us to Graham (Nash). She drove us to Pender Harbour and next day came to visit to discuss dulcimer specifications with JR. I was amazed when she took up my dulcimer, tuned all the strings to the same note and proceeded to play "A Case of You" from her "Blue" album. I'll never wash my dulcimer again. Over the next three weeks JR built her an exquisite mountain dulcimer. But it took him another week to deliver it because he was so shy. She was so delighted, she paid him a hundred dollars more than his original quote, which I think was $300. Over 20 years later, in 1996, I was reading a Rolling Stone article about Joni and in the accompanying photograph there she was with JR's dulcimer hanging on the wall behind her. I must admit I felt a twinge of jeaousy that JR got in Rolling Stone before I did. JR Stone still lives and builds amazing instruments in Boone, North Carolina. He has built me several four string dulcimers and a 6 string and bass dulcimer as well." Rick Scott Contact: UK/Europe: Paul Castle pdcmusic@freeuk.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 19:09:03 +0800 (PST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: Recent Purchases (fwd) My cd rampage last week was different, needing a break from the pressures of the world... got things that I did not have in cd format. CMIARS: Joni DED: Jonio NRH: Joni Mingus: Joni WTRF: Joni HOSL: Joni Heijra: Joni (I told my partner that he could get me STAS, DJRD, and LOTC in cd format for my birthday and then I will have them all in cd...) and two videos: PWW&M: Joni S&L: Joni (the Rev) Vince Joseph Palis wrote: > I went on a CD rampage yesterday because I passed my Comprehensive Exams > (there's nothing like celebrating to the max -- in its sinful proportions) > and I was surprised to see a lot of new and old albums in Tower Records. I > wondering what recent 5 purchases the Listers had in the past month ... > for better or for worse. Mine's the following: > > 1) David Frishberg - Live at Vine St. > 2) Shirley Horn - I Remember Miles > 3) Jon Hendricks - Freddie Freeloader > 4) Michael Feinstein - Michael and George > 5) Phoebe Snow - Best of > > Joseph > (wanted to buy Clementine's "Sings Sidran" but too expensive) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:21:42 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Musicians in Bob Dylan's current band (NJC) Larry Campbell -- guitar Tony Garnier -- bass David Kemper -- drums Bucky Baxter -- steel guitar and mandolin Can anybody tell me anything about any of these guys? They were great!!! Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:24:17 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Back in the Fold (NJC) From: Lindsay Moon <> Welcome back Lindsay! And actually, "busyness" is a word and is in fact a different word than "business", although the latter probably evolved from the former... In honor of your return, radio station WBOB will play the following mini-set: The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey Bad Moon Rising - CCR Man on The Moon - REM Harvest Moon - Neil Young Moon at The Window Walking On the Moon - The Police Moondance - Van Now I hope you learned your lesson...don't stray again! :~) Bob NP: Jethro Tull, "Witches Promise" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:33:00 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: A provocative quesiton (NJC) Kakki writes: > If there had been ground troops > at the start in conjunction with the bombing of strategic targets, don't you > think that we would be seeing far less refugees being killed, rounded-up, > mass graves, burning and pillaging of villages, etc., at this point? There > have also been many innocent civilians accidently killed in some of the > bombings. Sometimes I think if you are going to commit to a fight, you have > to commit all the way or you just get bogged down in a mess. At least the last statement is definitely true. It is virutally impossible to hit a camouflaged tank from 15,000 feet above, and that's why we're seeing bombs falling on bridges, oil refineries, electric power stations, innocent civilians, but it isn't working. The question whether Milosevich would have backed down if faced with the real threat of a ground war against NATO is hypothetical now. IMO the chance would have been greater, but far from certain. 95 % of Serbs think Kosovo is "their" territory, and they're willing both to suffer and to fight for it. Our countries currently are sending this message out to the world: "We're willing to kill for humanitarian causes, but we're not willing to die for them, at least not if it is a relatively unimportant piece of land and there is a threat to destabilize Russia. What are the options now, provided Milosevich isn't giving in? 1) Ground war to partially or completely free Kosovo from Serb forces Would take ca. 100,000 soldiers minimum. PRO: Will drive the Serbs out, allow the Albanians to return. Will likely lead to Milosevich's elimination. CONTRA: US Congress/Weak Americam President; indecisive European allies. Would take at least further 3 months to prepare. Will push support for extreme nationalists in Russia, Belorussia, to 40-60 % and put Russia on the track for collapse. Significant casualties on all sides. Little, if no public support in NATO member states. ASSESSMENT: Highly unlikely, unless Clinton changes his mind and gains support both in US Congress and Nato allies. Might lead to chaos in South-Eastern Europe and Russia. 2) Ceasing the bombardment of Serbia, keeping up the political and economic sanctions PRO: Would mean drawing a clear consequence out of the so-far failure; no further radicalization of East European countries. If sanctions are administered properly, Serbia likely to eventually collapse economically due to sanctions and already inflicted infrastructural damage. CONTRA: Political Disaster for NATO member states; 2 million Albanian "refugees in orbit"; Balkan region is more destabilized than before. Fascist Yugoslav regime will receive a short-term boost; possibly problems in Bosnia, where Serbs could decide to rise against the weakened SFOR forces and unite their territories with Serbia proper. Coup in Montenegro, where West-friendly governor will be replaced with one of Milosevich's followers. ASSESSMENT: Impossible as a clear officially announced decision, but in a less obvious shape one of the probable actual outcomes 3) Continuing the Bombardment until destruction in Serbia reaches critical levels Seems to be inofficial NATO strategy, if they have one at all PRO: Little own casualties, limited anger in Russia (but bound to rise once pictures of Serbs dying from hunger will appear) CONTRA: Heavy casualties among Serbian civilians; strategy de facto means a sophisticated form of NATO terrorism; growing political resistance within NATO member states; hasn't worked so far, probably won't work until Serbia is completely destroyed; Initiative is left to Milosevich. Further troubles in other Balkan countries. ASSESSMENT: It's going on, even though it shouldn't be 4) Keeping up the Bombardment with focus on Serb army and providing military support to the KLA PRO: Little own casualties; KLA will eventually gain ground; increased chances of favorable outcome for Albanians and NATO; high risk and internal political pressure on Milosevich as Serbia becomes more and more exhausted and its forces are losing ground against the KLA; covert actions make it difficult for Russia to react with drastic measures CONTRA: Will turn Kosovo into another Afghanistan; KLA might already be too weak for being able to sustain a long-term guerilla fight. If KLA advances, remaining Kosovar Serbs will be massacred. Might require NATO to intervene a 2nd time, if rivalling KLA clans are killing each other after having defeated the Serbs (see Afghanistan) ASSESSMENT: One of the options which probably are being followed secretly already. Would be quite ruthless under "normal" conditions, but might constitute an improvement from the current mess Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 15:33:40 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJC:Irony The three people killed in the bomb in a gay bar were a married couple(m/f) and their best man. A 22 yr old man has been arrested for all three bombs. So far it appears he worked alone. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:18:52 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: If It Were Up to Me >If It Were Up to Me- by Cheryl Wheeler To my surprise and amazement, KACD/KBCD LA's "World Class Rock" station has been playing this. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:47:10 -0400 From: "Barnicle, Kathryn" Subject: My 5 CD's (JC) Hey, this is fun. Here are my recent cd purchases: 1. David Lahm, Jazz Takes on Joni 2. Jane's Addiction (the one with the live "Jane Says") 3. The B-52's greatest hits record (keeps me dancing!) 4. some gal named Joni "Court and Spark" 5. A blond Canadian woman "Night Ride Home" 3 out of 5 ain't bad, and all purchased through CDNOW. Thanks Wally! The David Lahm CD came in 3 days (I ordered it one week ago!) Katie from the Cape P.S. To Michael Paz, please come to Ashara's and bring some of those darn good shrimp with you! ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:49:44 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: A provocative quesiton (NJC) Thanks for the articulate post, Winfried. Who needs CNN when we have you here? I asked the hard question that no one seems to be really addressing and you provided some of the hard answers no one seems to be really addressing. I don't like any aspects of the situation in Yugoslavia nor do I like pondering the atrocities of war but we have to look at it realistically if we hope to come up with some viable solution. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:37:00 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - April 30 1983: Joni performs at Teatre des Champs Elysees in Paris - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:52:00 -0700 From: This Month in Joni History Subject: This Month in Joni History - May 1969: The album "Clouds" is released 1970: The album "Ladies Of The Canyon" reaches #27 on the US charst and is her first gold album, while Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young's versipon of "Woodstock" makes #11 in the US. May 1972: Seventeen Magazine features a mini-review of the "For The Roses" album this month. Read it at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Seventeen72.html May 1974: "Help Me" hits #7 in the US as "Court And Spark" hits #2 in the US for four weeks. 1992: (from Wally's bio): [This month] Joni won her case in the California Court of Appeal in Mitchell Vs. State Board of Equalization. A panel of judges from the 2nd District California Court of Appeal decided that Joni's pre-1975 recording contracts were for personal services and not for the sale of master recordings. Because of this difference, she could not be forced to pay state sales tax. This decision brought Joni a refund of the tax she'd paid plus interest for a total check of $566,000.00. - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:53:00 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - May 1 1969: - Joni guests on the Johnny Cash show, set to air on June 7th. After the show, Bob Dylan, who was also on the show, returns to Johnny Cash's house with famed bluegrass banjo player Earl Scruggs, Bob Johnston, and country songwriter Boudleaux Bryant for dinner. After dinner, they each perform a song, Dylan at his turn singing the old standard "These Working Hands." According to Graham Nash, who also recalls a dinner at Cash's, attended by, among others, himself, his then-girlfriend Joni Mitchell, Kris Kristofferson, and Eddy Arnold, Dylan sang four or five songs. Presumably it was the very same dinner. Nash recalls Sara, Dylan's wife, sitting there crying at the drama of the moment. 1983: Joni performs at Zenith in Paris 1988: Today's Musician Magazine features a huge article on Joni, saying "Mitchell has produced her own records since her second album; it's sometimes hard for her to adjust to having a copilot. "Through the records we've worked on together," Klein says, "I've learned a lot about how to be a good producer. Joan's got very good musical intuition. On some of the previous things I would voice my disapproval of an idea before the idea had time to reach fruition, before it paid off. That really bothered her. She's not used to having someone present any kind of negativity at the birth of a idea. I've learned through the course of these records how to time my input. Because she has very good musical intuition. Many times she'll have the germ of an idea and at the beginning it'll sound like it's going down a wrong path, but it ends up coming around to a place that pays off. She warrants that kind of trust." Read the full article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/mus88a.htm 1988: Today's issue of "Q" Magazine reviews "Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm" saying, "Given a musician whose career has encompassed more than 20 years and a welter of styles ranging from flower-child folkiness through rock and jazz to her present offering, it's little surprise to find Joni Mitchell sounding unhurried. As she approaches middle age, she's put aside the dizzying invention of times past, and like Van Mornson, perhaps realises that she no longer has anything to prove. Yet this doesn't mean that she no longer has anything to say. Read the entire review at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Q1988.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:17:44 EDT From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: progress on fingernails My guitar was in the shop for a while getting a fret fixed. Though I went through a guitar withdrawal the first couple of days, I did get another draft of a screenplay done, AND I got my fingernails on my right hand to a certain length. Howard Wright is right -- you do get a more Joni-like sound with longer nails. Was listening to some Stones lately. Joni had talked about how Keith Richards leaves off the sixth string and mostly plays in what I think is drop D tuning. Since then, I have heard Joni's "peculiar chords" in the tunes of Mr. Richards. When they gave me back my guitar, they had put it into standard tuning for the first time in a year or so. Strangely, it was like some exotic open tuning. I did what Joni had mentioned doing, about writing her first song in standard tuning in years, which was to treat it like it was an alternate tuning and forget about standard chords. I really like the results. One thing I don't like is typing with these longer nails. And I'm gonna have to get an emery board or something. Clark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:28:16 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: A provocative question (NJC) Winfried escribe: <<>> In order to be a truly analogistic metaphor, shouldn't we add that U.S. President Jennifer Q. Citizen has overseen systematic murder of Hispanic residents of California and possibly the rest of the United States--carried out, of course, by the venerable U.S. military? - --Michael, not taking sides, just putting food for thought on the table NP: Beck, _Mutations_ - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:33:58 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: NJC:Irony Colin wrote: <<>> Tragic proof that hate and prejudice really do touch all of our lives, minority or not. My thoughts are with the victim's families and friends and the UK queer community. - --Michael NP: Mary J. Blige, _My Life_ - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 11:40:29 -0600 From: katej Subject: excerpt from Murray's autobiography " 'Let's Sing Out' mixed a whole bunch of interesting music together: traditional, singer-songwriter, good-time and commie-controversial stuff. I haven't forgotten that this country[Canada] put Bob Dylan on CBC national television when he was still a fringe artist in the U.S. They were going to be shooting the show up at Laurentian University in Sudbury, and I was invited to be on it...One of the guests was... this gorgeous blonde lady named Joni Mitchell. She'd been in Toronto, playing a place called the Seven of Clubs, run by a guy named Mike Copas--at least I think that was his name. She'd been making a reputation on the American club scene after breaking up with the husband who had foolishly ridiculed her efforts at singing and writing, but she was yet to release her first record... ...I'd heard of Joni--people were talking about her-- but I'd never heard her sing or been exposed to any of her songs. Judy Collins hadn't recorded 'Both Sides Now' yet. I hadn't paid much attention to her during the flight up, what with being so excited about the flight itself. When she transformed herself into her full performing drag-- sparkling little bum-freezer mini-dress, sparkling leotards, open-heeled shoes, nails, long straight Mary Travers-style blonde hair, a big Martin D-18 all topped off with those high Scandinavian cheekbones, she got my full attention! She drew out two conflicting feelings in me at the same time because of the way she presented herself. On the one hand, I just wanted to throw her on her back, but at the same time, I wanted to put her on a pedestal and protect her. I've always thought the most fascinating people or works of art are the ones that pull in different directions simultaneously. There's an inner tension that projects from them, and like it or not, you're drawn in by it. Joni seemed full of inner wars and conflicts. Certainly, there was a lot more at work in her than she was letting on. Then there were the songs. She sang 'Sistowbell Lane' and 'Song to a Seagull,' both of which would find their way onto her first record, the one David Crosby would produce. They were done in these weird tunings on the guitar and sung in this impossibly pure high falsetto, and I had somethingof the same reaction I'd had the first time I'd heard Dylan - --though not for the same reasons. She was the first woman I'd heard who was trying to blend contemporary poetic lyrics and folk music forms like the male writers I admired already. But she was different. She was exploring new territory, abstracting her relationships and using them as fuel, writing with wonderful sensitivity about how the insanities of the world affected her emotionally. When we got on the plane to leave Sudbury, I had good memories of my first tv appearance...and Joni Mitchell, who made me feel like I was somebody tap dancing for the line-up outside the opera. Not long after this, she came up to the flat to visit with us when she happened to be in Toronto. It might have been her first Riverboat gig, I can't remember. I do remember that we all hung out in the formal front room of the two-room flat and listened to the Beatles' 'Sergeant Pepper' album, which had just come out. I had developed a bit of a crush and was trying hard not to let it show." -Murray McLauchlan, Getting Out of Here Alive ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 20:04:08 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: A provocative question (NJC) Eric wrote: > Destroying Yugoslavias military infastructure by plane & ship before > deciding to finally send in ground troops is indeed the safe option & seems > very well-executed to me. True, if it really were the strategy. So far, that doesn't seem to be the case -- you would have to start to deploy troops and especially equipment (tanks, artillery etc.) NOW in order to have them battle-ready in 2-3 months. Take into account that the terrain in Kosovo is extremely difficult; lots of mountains (up to 8,000 ft.); lots of forest, very bad infrastructure. Perfectly suited for Vietnam-style guerilla warfare, it greatly diminishes the importance of having/achieving air superiority. If there was significant progress in crushing the military, NATO wouldn't be dropping bombs on electric power stations. The Serbs are the only nation in the world to celebrate a defeat (1389 in Kosovo, to the Ottoman troops), which tells you a lot about their collective conscience. To them, there's nothing more heroic than taking up the fight against an omnipotent enemy. Don't put too much hope in their getting demoralized. As far as I know, NATO generals wanted to make plans for invading Kosovo with ground troops, but they were ordered to cut it out. So far, England is the only NATO member to openly favorize sending in ground troops, and everywhere else, both leaderships and people are against it. Politicians have constantly repeated it won't happen. It would be extremely difficult to explain a shift in policy to an unprepared public. I don't know what's going to happen. Things could still get much, much worse if you look at a map of South/Eastern Europe and the shape these countries are in. It is one big, dangerous mess -- all the way from Tirana, Albania til Vladivostok in the Pacific Ocean. The biggest mistake was and is trying to teach democracy to societies which completely lack democratic traditions and have no bourgeois middle class. (Serbia is actually one of the few countries where democracy would work) This is the most stupid and dangerous Western dogma. If the U.N. would like to undertake one useful task once, they should try to develop a kind of semi-authoritarian political system which allows a large number of people to increase their economic wealth and secures the basic civil liberties, while maintaining political stability and gradually allowing more and more political participation. Russia would have been much better off, had it followed the Chinese way. Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 11:12:04 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Online Music Shopping Wally and Les have created two of my favorite sites on the internet. I try to financially support them by always going through their homepages on my way to online CD shops...it's the least I can do to help offset their expenses. I encourage all reading this to support the Joni Mitchell Discussion List homepage maintained by Les, as well as Wally's Joni Mitchell homepage by accessing your favorite online music stores through these homepages. A small percentage of your purchases will be credited to the list owners, who provide us with these great websites as a labor of love. For those into bookmarks, you can use the following to go directly to CDNOW: (JMDL) and (jonimitchell.com) - ------------------------------------- Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:25:22 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Jonifest/Wally Hi everyone! I forgot to add in my original "Party Post" that EVERYONE can participate in raising money for Wally! Even if you are not planning to attend the New England Labor Day Weekend Jonifest, (for more information go to: ) you can still send a donation in **any amount** towards helping Wally with his expenses on the web page, and as a support to him for his continued healing. If everyone on this list sent even just $5, we would raise about $3,000!! I challenge this wonderful list to 100% participation for this cause. For all Wally has given to us, for all the time he has spent putting together the Joni Mitchell website, for all the dedication he has given towards getting the information about Joni out there, let's see if we can rally together for this cause and see what our efforts as a community can do. Even if you can only afford a small amount, please, please participate. I will keep everyone updated as to how many people have participated, and the total dollar amount as we go along. A very HUGE thank you, and HUGE HUG to Les, who does an equally incredible job keeping us all connected with each other, keeping up the JMDL web pages, and keeping all the many mailing lists straight. My thought was to share the money raised for the Jonifest between him and Wally, but his beautiful, generous soul came out to shine when he agreed that Wally's need was greater. THANK YOU Les, for YOU!!!!!!!!!! With what is going on in the world right now, I think it so important to remind ourselves of our blessings in all the angels that surround us, like Les and Wally. Please send all donations to: (checks payable to Wally Breese) Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA 01983 THANK YOU ALL!!!!!! Hugs, Ashara http://www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:35:50 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) So Rolling Stone says that Kurt Cobain is the "Artist of the 90's", which I'm not sure I agree with (he didn't even live in half of it) but I'm not sure who would be...Chuck D from Public Enemy maybe as he pushes the envelope artistically and technically, but anyway, I started thinking about decades past. I decided on picking solo artists and bands for each decade, focusing on those who crossed over genres, expanded the music and left a lasting legacy. Here's what I came up with: 60's: Solo - Bob Dylan Band - The Beatles 70's: Solo - Joni (although Stevie Wonder is right on her heels with Tom Waits not far behind either) Band - Led Zeppelin 80's: Solo - Prince Band - U2 (I'd also mention XTC but that's strictly personal; they've never made too big a splash over here) 90's: Even though the decade is about over, I really am having trouble thinking of people/bands to fill these slots. REM probably gets the nod for Band. Anybody have any suggestions? Bob NP: Billy Joel, "Famous Last Words" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:51:01 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) My picks: > 60's: Solo - Joan Baez > Band - Grateful Dead > 70's: Solo - Joni > Band - Led Zeppelin > > 80's: Solo - can't think of one > Band - Duran Duran > 90's: Solo - Michael Hedges Band - Dave Matthews Band NP-People's Court Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua http://jmdl.com/guitar/mark "This conformity factory is now closed!" -Homer Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 12:53:00 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - May 4 1983: Joni performs in Frankfurt, Germany - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 21:05:09 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Mark Domyancich schrieb: > > My picks: > > > > 80's: Solo - can't think of one Let's face it: --- Madonna! :-) Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:04:45 -0500 From: Diana Duncan Subject: NJC Remy Zero Dumby me! I haven't been paying attention to everyone's list of last 5 CD's purchased because right now I can't afford to buy any. But now I want to know if anyone else has found the group, Remy Zero. My daughter bought the CD of theirs, Villa Elaine, and played it for me. I immediately made a tape of it. To me they're a cross between the Beatles and Queen. I've really enjoyed it. Anyone else? Diana ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:12:44 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Bob wrote: <<< 60's: Solo - Bob Dylan Band - The Beatles>>> Undeniably <<< 70's: Solo - Joni (although Stevie Wonder is right on her heels with Tom Waits not far behind either) Band - Led Zeppelin>>> I give Stevie the edge over Joni. Ohmigod did I just say that here? And Neil Young? I'd go with Parliament/Funkadelic over Zep. The most important shifts in '70s music IMO were punk and funk (which fed both disco and hip-hop). But no punk band (almost by definition) had the longevity necessary to warrant band-of-the-decade status. <<< 80's: Solo - Prince Band - U2>>> This is pretty accurate IMO. As for the '90s, Nirvana is the obvious choice for band. Their commercial impact and its creative fallout were just too huge. R.E.M. did well, no doubt, but their real impact was in drawing attention back to the underground in the '80s (in fact, maybe they should beat U2 for that slot). For solo artist it is difficult to think of an overarching figure, but I would settle on Beck for his use of hip-hop (undeniably the music of the decade, at least the last half of it) as part of a sound pastiche (the sonic development of the decade) on three excellent albums plus some other solid ones. His postmodern appropriative approach to music with its combo of rural and urban sounds and emphasis on humor and absurdity best typifies the sound of the '90s IMO. Other artists who have a legitimate claim IMO are PJ Harvey, Bjork, Notorious B.I.G. and, perhaps most of all, Dr. Dre. Chuck D loses--Public Enemy's innovative leaps forward happened in the '80s, and, giant though he is, there are many MCs whose '90s work has smoked his. - --Michael NP: George Michael and Mary J. Blige, "As" - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:23:18 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: NJC Remy Zero Diana wrote: <<>> You're in the company of Courtney Love, who is a big fan. I, however, have used my free copy of their CD as a jewel-box replacement. I like one song OK (can't remember exactly how it goes, but the hook has the word "she" prominently featured in it). The rest seemed simply like Radiohead lite to me. I gave them a second chance when I saw them open for Blur in NYC but found them to be irritatingly dull. Sorry. If you like Remy Zero, you'll love Radiohead. Pick up their magnum opus, _OK Computer_ (my pick for album of the decade, as long as we're passing out premature awards). A prog record with weight but no pretensions, it's beautifully crafted and rocks like a mutha. - --Michael NP: Janet Jackson, _janet._ - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:41:55 -0600 From: katej Subject: more from murray, about 4 years later "I was placed in the custody of a really nice guy named Michael Vosse. It was his task to squire me around and show me the sights. Pretty much the first thing he did was stick a joint in my mouth, and we started driving around Hollywood. It turned out that he knew Joni, who'd recently moved down there permenently and bought herself a house in Laurel Canyon. She'd immersed herself in the psychedelic scene, got to work with Crosby on the 'Song to a Seagull' album and realized that L.A. had replaced New York as the centre of the musical universe. It turned out that Michael was sortof babysitting Joni's house while she was out of town, so we drove up there to make sure it was still standing. It was a beautiful little place, sunlit and full of colourful artifacts she'd collected along the way. The livingroom was dominated by one of those huge votive candle holders you find in a Catholic church in front of a shrine or a statue of a saint. A high brass pedestal with a large ring-shaped top and a series of shelves held maybe sixty candles in little coloured glass jars. All I wanted to do was move in and never go home." --Murray McLauchlan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:41:58 -0600 From: Brett Code Subject: RE: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Yes, Madonna is surely the most influential Artist of the 80s. Band of the late-70s, early 80s? Another unpopular possibility - The BeeGees. They sure changed life at my high school and college more than anyone else did. Brett - ---------- From: Winfried Hühn[SMTP:whuehn@stud.uni-goettingen.de] Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 1:05 PM To: Mark Domyancich Cc: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) <> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:39:29 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) NJC MichaelY says: <> 'Preciate the clarification on that hip-hop, Michael - you know a lot more about that stuff than me, so I yield to your expertise. (But Parliament/Funkadelic over Zep...I'm LOL!) Bob NP: Webb Wilder, "Horror Hayride" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:44:05 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Winfried screib: <> That's actually a darn good pick...she didn't even cross my mind since I'm not much of a fan, except for "Get Into the Groove"... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 22:08:13 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: > > Winfried screib: > > <> > > That's actually a darn good pick...she didn't even cross my mind since > I'm not much of a fan, except for "Get Into the Groove"... Here comes a big confession -- I actually like "Cherish", and there's nothing I can do about it! Winfried, going to call a therapist tomorrow.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:29:09 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Re: (NJC) Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Bob wrote about Maddie: <<>> Just a note: the official title is "Into the Groove". And Winfried wrote: <<>> Well, considering that it has no less than three distinct melodies, often woven against each other, there could be far more embarrassing "simple" pop songs to like. And some of those couplets are just divine: "Romeo and Juliet / They never felt this way I bet" Inventively rhymed and perfectly capturing the insouciant spirit of puppy love. It is a winner. Nonetheless, my tiara as reigning JMDL Madonnafanatic notwithstanding, I still claim Prince as the more important and influential musician. Though if we say "artist" of the decade instead of "musician," Maddie may just edge him out. Tough call. - --Michael NPIMH: Madonna, "Sanctuary" (or "Mer Girl" or the chart-topping "Erotica" or any other of a number of wildly experimental tracks from the "pop" princess) - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 17:07:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Colorado (NJC) Hello from Puebla. Finally got to a machine. Went to a cathedrAl in Puebla yesterday and what was the topic of the bishop's sermon? Colorado. Has had a profound effect on our image and a great impact here in the Mexican education system. Ola. Jerry On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, John Low wrote: > I'm glad I didn't transfer to the NJC list. > > I have found it hard and have failed to find satisfactory words to > contribute to the intense and necessary debate surrounding the > terrible events in Colorado. However, I have followed a good deal of > it and found agreement with many of the wise and deeply felt opinions > expressed. > > Despite the sense of deja vu that always seems to accompany these > debates, I really think that they are important in the struggle to > maintain optimism in the face of all the horrors that punctuate human > history. I don't want to become misanthropic. I want to pass on an > idealism to my children even in the face of the fact that, sadly, > this same debate will almost certainly be repeated down the track. I > want them to believe, too, that we are "stardust" and "golden", even > if we are clearly no nearer "the garden". > > John. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 17:07:18 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: Artist (s) of the Decade (s) Prince vs. Madonna? That's a tough call.. I'd have to say Prince, if for any reason but that he quotes Joni as a major influence in his music. Ha ha. And the solo artist of the 90s? That's easy: Jonatha Brooke. It's just that nobody knows it yet!! Dave Matthews is a darn good choice for band of the 90s. Pretty innovative those guys - and to think they were my favorite LOCAL band in college. I used to go to Charlottesville every Tuesday night to hear them. Awesome. Coming out of my shell more and more... Trey NP - The Hissing of Summer Lawns ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 18:09:39 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: njc busyness oh no. both busyness and business exist as two diferent words. wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: catman Para: joni@smoe.org Fecha: Lunes 3 de Mayo de 1999 01:21 Asunto: Re: Back in the Fold (NJC) > > >Bounced Message wrote: > >> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 21:22:35 -0700 >> From: Lindsay Moon >> >> Just a hello to everyone from me, who had to un.su.bscribe a few months ago >> due to overwhelming life busy-ness (is that a word??) > >yes-tho it is usually spelt business! And it means the same thing.welcome back! > >bw >colin > >> Well, various things >> have happened, some good, some not so good and I have now reached a point >> of helplessness about certain things, a feeling that I was losing my soul. >> I started listening to my Joni again, went to a Borders and sat reading, >> feeling and smelling some books (I used to love to get lost in books stores >> but haven't had time since kids, school, blah, blah) and -- damn it! -- >> resubscribed to this list. I just can't be without it any longer! Thank >> you all for being out there and such fun to hang around with (even if I >> don't always pipe up). My best to you all. My soul is heaving a big sigh >> of relief. >> >> Lindsay Moon > > > >-- > >CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST >http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html >TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS >http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk > > > ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #198 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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