From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #195 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, May 1 1999 Volume 04 : Number 195 TapeTree #8 is ready to roll. To sign up go to: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Recent Purchases (NJC) [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: NJC Bomb In Gay Bar (NJC cont.) [catman ] Hecklers at 1st May speech of German defense minister NJC [Winfried Huehn] Re: Insular NJC (NJC) [Gellerray@aol.com] joni photo [katej ] Re: Hothouse Flowers (NJC) [David Wright ] A provocative question (NJC) ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: A provocative question (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: Insular NJC ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: A provocative question (NJC) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] NJC Last purchases ["Happy The Man" ] Re: Winfried's provocative question (NJC) ["Gene Mock" ] Re: Insular NJC [catman ] Re: Winfried's provocative question (NJC) [catman ] Soho bombing - (glad you're okay, colin!) (NJC) [Marian Russell ] NJC: Rally 'round the cause [Kate Tarasenko ] Re: A provocative question (NJC) [RMuRocks@aol.com] RE:the london bombings (njc) last 5 buys ["gerry mcnee" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 11:55:35 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Recent Purchases (NJC) Beth Orton - Central Reservation (album of the year in my world.) Jim O'Rourke - Eureka Scott Walker - Scott 1 Beatles - Anthology 3 Orbital - Middle of Nowhere ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 12:24:57 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC Bomb In Gay Bar (NJC cont.) The first bomb went off two weeks ago. It appears a fascist org is doing it, perhaps Combat 18 which is a Nazi org. colin Gellerray@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 99-04-30 16:05:40 EDT, you write: > > << The third nail bomb to go off in London has gone off tonight in a Gay > bar. At least two are dead and over 30 are injured. > The previous two bombs went off in a predominantly black area and an > Asian area. >> > > and have they any idea of who is doing this? do they think it is the same > person, or persons? and over what period of time has this been happening? > > rpg - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 12:27:20 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Guns, a humanist issue -- VLJC It is quite possible that it is this reaction to what you call the real world that makes it as it is. al_date@email.com wrote: > It is to be expected that in a list dedicated to a poet that there would be plenty of anti-gun feelings. Dreaming of bomber jet planes turning into butterflies is something I have engaged in myself, under a puff of smoke. > > But that was before I became a parent; before I became responsible for somebody other than myself. Once I realized that I would lay down my own life to protect my children, I gained a more realistic attitude about the defense of innocents. I even stopped using recreational drugs which might hamper my ability to react to an emergency situation. > > I realized that I had to be ready to take action, whatever circumstances might arise--stopped-breathing, drowning, burns, cuts, even defense from criminals. Self-defense is a long subject, but suffice it to say that each person has to decide for themselves what kind of defense they are going to muster. One of those choices, among many, is possession of a firearm, depending on the circumstances. > > Since a woman has a right to defend her body and her family, she has a right to choose her methodology. It is a simple matter of CHOICE. > > This is not some utopian fantasy; it is a survival-response to the REAL WORLD, which is not always a nice place. We haven't figured out how to prevent evil; we can only react to it, by whatever means we have available, > Sorry to bring the bad news. > > [And, reminding myself of how much it changed me, I wonder what Joni Mitchell would be like today if she had actually raised her own children. > Less childish and less whiny is my guess.] > > --Al Date > > ----------------------------------------------- > FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com > Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 12:31:42 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Great Children's Songs-(NJC) Something that really annoys me about the music industry is the way they market bad teen pop to children knowing that the parents will buy it for the kids. I try to give my seven year old some decent music and scored some minor hits with Big Yellow Taxi remix and La Bamba by Los Lobos. The Los Lobos record is one of a great series called Music For Little People from Earthbeat Records which also includes music from artists like Taj Mahal, Judy Collins, Sweet Honey in the Rock, and many more. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 08:50:11 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Great Children's Songs-(NJC) In a message dated 5/1/99 7:36:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, philipf@tinet.ie writes: > The Los Lobos record is one of a > great series called Music For Little People from Earthbeat Records > which also includes music from artists like Taj Mahal, Judy Collins, > Sweet Honey in the Rock, and many more. Los Lobos also have a children's recording called Papa's Dream, which is a story and interspersed music from the perspective of a Mexican family. Jonathan Edwards has a nice album for kids called Little Hands. It's a mix of original and traditional songs, including Flies In The Buttermilk (lots of fun) and Winken, Blinken and Nod (really lovely). Kids music has come a long way in the last decade or so. Many good choices out there. But as far as parenting goes, there's nothing like singing to one's kids at bedtime, singing together in the car, etc etc. It's interesting that at my house, it's the adults who rock. My kids prefer classical music, traditional folk, some Joni (especially early Joni) and show tunes. Go figure! Take care, Gina NPIMH: Hello, It's Me (all that todd talk) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 09:33:06 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: quick review of a todd rundgren tribute album i just picked up(NJC) In a message dated 4/30/99 11:21:24 PM Central Daylight Time, trxschwa@bway.net writes: << todd is one of my hugest loves, i think i have everything by him and utopia (including all three nazz albums) except for 'the individualist'. most of the '70s and 80s albums i know by heart. what's good about the tribute is that the songs are all well performed and they are just as fine as i've always thought. he is one of the great pop songwriters. >> Patrick - thanx for the review! When I first bought my CD changer a lotta years ago, the stereo place gave me a 25% off coupon for a local CD store, so I went there directly and in that first group of CD's I picked up were Todd's best-of 2-disc set. While it's very satisfying, I always think about what's left off of the set and want to fill in the gaps...I'll have to fine tune my Todd collection in the near future I think...And what IS it about some of his stuff that makes me tingle with pure pop delight? I'm thinking of "I Saw The Light", "We Gotta Get You A Woman", "Just One Victory", is it the chord progressions, is it one certain chord, I don't know, but I get the same feeling when I hear Carole King's "Been To Canaan" - it's like some instant kind of euphoria, I can't really explain it. Anyway, time to start housecleaning...:~( Bob NP: Little Feat "Down The Road" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 16:53:35 +0200 From: "Tube" Subject: Farewell Sarah, Bowie Bond Come back soon Sarah - I've been paying for my computer on credit for nearly four years now. The interest is killing me, but it's been worth it just to be in on lists like this one. ******************** To who-ever it was, thanks for clearing up the definition of Joni's advance $300,000 for me. ******************** Bowie and Hootie - I read in the British Financial Times recently that the Rock Futures thing was not going too well. I can't remember the facts exactly, especially as my understanding of business is non-existent, but as I recall, the Bowie Bond will do okay, but apparantly there's just isn't a big enough piece of pie to stretch to all the acts in the world. Bowie's thirty-year track record is a solid bet, but new bands like Hootie can't expect to attract similar confidence from investors, especially in today's ephemeral trends in the rock/pop biz. I think that Bowie also owns all his songs, having bought up his own back-catalogue a few years ago when it was going cheap during a Low (sic) spot in his career, hence he is now able to do this. He's a shrewd cookie, no doubt about it, and one of my all-time favourite people, (public persona-wise that is) Tube ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 17:57:41 +0200 From: Winfried Huehn Subject: Hecklers at 1st May speech of German defense minister NJC Folks -- I'm just watching the Social Democratic labor day celebrations. The German defense minister Rudolf Scharping, who yesterday was caught lying about an incident in Kosovo, is speaking on youth unemployment and social security, but most of the participants are standing right in front of the podium heckling at him "stop the war", "stop killing civilians". Riot police had to come in and take a few people out. He's just acting as if the hecklers weren't there. What a bizarre scene. I wonder if this will make international news. It would definitely be worth it. Here in Germany, people know what it means to live under bombardment. The city I'm from, Kassel, was completely destroyed in 2nd world war, more than 20,000 people killed in that city alone during the attack and in the aftermath firestorms. Now he's directly addressing the hecklers, telling them they should be more sympathetic with the "poor Kosovans". (That's not the point here). Now he's citing the U.N. secretary general, (who BTW said yesterday that the human cost of the bombardment is too high and NATO must stop it). He's telling demonstrators they're stupid and heartless, half of the attendants applauding him, the other half covering their ears. I have never seen scenes like these, not even during the peace movement demonstrations in the 80ies. Wonder how this will contine. I still don't know for sure who's right on this, and even though I'm not a leftist at all, I'm somehow proud of these pacifist demonstrators, in a strange way. Weird. Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 12:06:04 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Insular NJC (NJC) colin, i just want to say, in an American's defense: late last night when i wrote a bit about the bombing of the gay bar in london, i did so because i had a genuine responses and becuase that was the first news i'd heard of any bombins at all in london. you see: i am in school and don't have any time for the news--it's awful that way, i hate it--and though i keep the list "going," there are many many posts i just cannot get to, so i always miss big chunks of goings on. It is not not caring--as pathetic as this may soiund I simply can't get to everything, as my teachers and friends (such as they are--i have about two here after relocating to my old small hometown after 14 years in on around NYC) could tell you. I did not write asking about the bar bomb or wondering about the two previous bombs because of your complaint about insular america; rather, because i truly was wondering (see it was only today read the 'insular NJC' post)--so, without wanting to be a braggart, i can at least say you're not totally right about our insularity, and i proved it. rg--no saint, but not an isolationist either ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 11:05:33 -0600 From: katej Subject: joni photo Hi Gang I just came across a picture of Joni in an autobiography of another Canadian folksinger/songwriter, Murray McLauchlan. The book is called 'Getting Out of Here Alive' and in the photo section is a snapshot of Murray and Joni in a clinch, looking like the best of friends. He has captioned the picture "Some old fart with this pretty lady from Saskatchewan." It gets across that they have had some good times together. I have no scanner to copy the picture for you all, but will pass on the anecdotes that include Joni when I get to them. Kate of the North ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:51:21 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Hothouse Flowers (NJC) Bob M. wrote: > > NP: Hothouse Flowers "I can see clearly now" (another fabulous > cover)..are these guys still together? Yes, I think they are. (They released an album last year.) I have to mention, with the "celtic hiccup/crimes against music" thread running parallel to this, the all-too-short bit of Irish sean-nos ("in the old style") traditional singing, "Seoladh na nGamhna," from that same Hothouse Flowers album. Lovely! - --David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 20:17:25 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: A provocative question (NJC) Folks, I would like to conduct a little experiment, by asking the following question: Let's assume the following (highly unrealistic) scenario: California, year 2050. Due to immigration and their explosive birth rates, the hispanics make up 80 % of the state's population. Crime and corruption are up 150 %. Non-hispanics are discriminated against. After attempts to make Spanish the state's first official language are struck down by a Supreme Court ruling, a referendum is introduced on whether California should leave the USA and join Mexico. The majority votes in favor of becoming "California del Norte", Mexico's most northerly province. California's hispanic governor requires all U.S. military to leave the state within 5 years. What would happen then? Would the U.S. peacefully let go California? Would the non-hispanics live under Mexican rule? Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 20:57:09 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: A provocative question (NJC) Gene Mock schrieb: > > I'm > not Hispanic but I'm offended by the reference that crime and corruption is > proportional to the Hispanic population. Please don't play with statistics > and race, your much better than that Winfried. Beware of the trap. I've thought quite a long time whether to include that "crime and corruption" reference into my scenario or not. I didn't say directly that it was caused by the Hispanics. Crime and corruption are complex social phenomenons which may be enhanced by ethnic tensions alone, without it necessarily being attributed to one single ethnicity. One ethnic group favorizes their peers and the others do likewise. I realized that this could be misinterpreted to be offensive, but that's exactly what happened in Kosovo and how it happened in Kosovo. I didn't mean to be racist (I hope I'm not racist) . I merely wanted to demonstrate how fragile ethnic equilibriums can be and how easily there can be a total breakdown resulting in civil-war-like conditions. Your sensitivity honors you, but it may also indicate the first step in ethnic conflicts -- a heated public atmosphere on ethnic topics. If I offended any hispanics here, please take my honest excuses. I simply took the real conditions in Kosovo and replaced "Albanians" and "Serbs" with "Hispanics" and "Non-Hispanics", being aware that the scenario is NOT entirely unrealistic altogether. Otherwise, I would have chosen "Bavarians/Non-Barvarians". Unfortunately, Germany is still too much a homogenous country for such an example. But we could do the same role-play with Catholics/Protestants in Northern Ireland, and then it would be 100 % realistic. What would have happened, if the Catholics had gained majority in Northern Ireland and had democratically decided to join the Republic of Ireland? Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 15:54:18 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Insular NJC catman wrote: <> It's funny, Americans are often criticized for caring enough to commit troops, aid & billions of tax dollars to genocide in Kosovo and Bosnia. Had Uncle Sam become involved in WWII sooner perhaps we could have prevented the genocide of millions. It's sad, but violence towards Black churches and Gay nightclubs is commonplace here in the USA and few Americans seem to really care. School shootings gets everyone's attention because it is a brand new phenomenon committed by White middle class male teens. And it's escalating out of control. The NRA should be very ashamed of itself for opposing the Brady bill, built-in locks on guns, and stricter regulations. But I don't blame guns for this kind of insane violence. Rather I'm convinced it's the fault of parents who let their kids play with mass-murder simulators (video games like Doom which the Army uses to desensitize soldiers from hesitating to pull the trigger)! Hollywood is also to blame for glamorizing violence in movies like Natural Born Killers. And it certainly doesn't help that a self-professed priest of the Church of Satan - Marilyn Manson - is out there preaching the gospel of hate to impressionable youth. America is the most violent nation on earth and we have out hands full dealing with what's going on in our own country, Colin. E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:04:42 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: A provocative question (NJC) I've long thought NORTHERN California should cecede from the US. Is there a movement to do this? It's about time. There is a popular bumpersticker that says "US out of North America". Realistically, what would happen? Well, when some of the states tried that, it was the bloodiest war in the history of the US, the 'civil' war (but not very). Colin's comments about our obsession with ourselves is only too true. When the casualties of Vietnam are mentioned, invariably it is the 50,000 US soldiers mentioned, very very rarely is there a mention of the million Vietnamese deaths. Likewise during the 'desert storm' so called war (as Bill Hicks said, a war is when TWO sides fight), there was considerable mention of the handful of US deaths, and a virtual censorship- which still continues-of the 100,000 Iraqi deaths, many of them civilians, or of the 200,000+ citizens, many children, that have died since due to the trade embargo. We hypocritically freak out when our children shoot each other, while at the same time we have been the arms merchants to the world, putting machine guns into the hands of brown skinned 14 year olds in Central America and anywhere else we can. Should we be that surprised when this karma comes back to us? We choose to look the other way, to go to work at the defence plant, to let the arms merchants sell death, and not question the consequences. A big part of this is that US media is 95% owned by about 15 mega corporations. They prefer to inundate the airwaves with the Monica thing, or OJ Simpson, both of which accounted for a huge portion of the news time for months and months. It's such a corporacracy here, the politicians are bought and paid for-completely legally-by big business. It is a crime to bribe a judge to skirt the law, but totally legal to bribe a politician to make (or kill) a law. Whoredom, whoredom, whoredom. It's making the populace dumber and number all the time. We've all been sold out. That's my rant for the day. RR "Winfried Hühn" wrote: > California, year 2050. Due to immigration and their explosive birth > rates, the hispanics make up 80 % of the state's population. Crime and > corruption are up 150 %. Non-hispanics are discriminated against. After > attempts to make Spanish the state's first official language are struck > down by a Supreme Court ruling, a referendum is introduced on whether > California should leave the USA and join Mexico. The majority votes in > favor of becoming "California del Norte", Mexico's most northerly > province. California's hispanic governor requires all U.S. military to > leave the state within 5 years. > > What would happen then? Would the U.S. peacefully let go California? > Would the non-hispanics live under Mexican rule? > > Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 22:38:25 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: Insular NJC Eric Taylor schrieb: > > America is the most violent nation on earth and we have out hands full > dealing with what's going on in our own country, Colin. > E.T. I do think the US is a more violent society than Western Europe, but if Western Europe had a few of the American legal and sociological conditions (great ethnic diversity, big differences between rich and poor, low social security, guns widely available), my guess is that there'd be civil war throughout the continent. There's already widespread xenophobia and ethnic hooliganism everywhere, even though the numbers of immigrants are quite low. (In Germany, altogether less than 10 % -- in East Germany below 3 % -- yet everybody talks about Germany being "ethnically altered") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 16:47:49 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: A provocative question (NJC) In a message dated 5/1/1999 2:22:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whuehn@stud.uni-goettingen.de writes: << California, year 2050. Due to immigration and their explosive birth rates, the hispanics make up 80 % of the state's population. Crime and corruption are up 150 %. Non-hispanics are discriminated against. After attempts to make Spanish the state's first official language are struck down by a Supreme Court ruling, a referendum is introduced on whether California should leave the USA and join Mexico. The majority votes in favor of becoming "California del Norte", Mexico's most northerly province. California's hispanic governor requires all U.S. military to leave the state within 5 years. What would happen then? Would the U.S. peacefully let go California? Would the non-hispanics live under Mexican rule? Winfried >> I figure by then California will be an island.....with it being my the fault line and everything. So we will have to paddle to the shores of ole California Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 16:33:10 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: NJC Last purchases I just got back after a lovely week in Southern California. I picked up a few cd's on the trip so to say five would be hard for me to remember. Todd Rundgren-A wizard a true star Sarah Mc - Rarities, B-sides Muzzle - Actual Size Squeeze - some fantastic place JM - STSG JM - Clouds Sam Phillips - Zero, Zero, Zero Aimee Mann - I'm with stupid Van Morrison - Back on Top Owsley - (Just good pop) Jon Anderson - The more you know Jason Faulkner - Can you still feel The Merrymakers - Bubblegun Jonatha Brooke - .10 Natalie Merchant - Ophelia Delirious - Mezzamorphis Neil Finn - Last One Standing U2- Last night on earth Tal Bachman (Son of Randy of BTO) - (New pop and great debut) Aunt Bettys - Jesus I spent two days going through used cd bins, slim pickens in L.A. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 14:35:48 -0700 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: Re: Winfried's provocative question (NJC) I know you didn't mean any harm by your hypothetical. Believe me, some people actually believe it will happen. But then again it seems like it always has been "them" or "Us." later gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: Winfried Hühn To: Gene Mock ; Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 11:57 AM Subject: Re: A provocative question (NJC) > Gene Mock schrieb: > > > > I'm > > not Hispanic but I'm offended by the reference that crime and corruption is > > proportional to the Hispanic population. Please don't play with statistics > > and race, your much better than that Winfried. Beware of the trap. > > I've thought quite a long time whether to include that "crime and > corruption" reference into my scenario or not. I didn't say directly > that it was caused by the Hispanics. Crime and corruption are complex > social phenomenons which may be enhanced by ethnic tensions alone, > without it necessarily being attributed to one single ethnicity. One > ethnic group favorizes their peers and the others do likewise. > > I realized that this could be misinterpreted to be offensive, but that's > exactly what happened in Kosovo and how it happened in Kosovo. I didn't > mean to be racist (I hope I'm not racist) . I merely wanted to > demonstrate how fragile ethnic equilibriums can be and how easily there > can be a total breakdown resulting in civil-war-like conditions. Your > sensitivity honors you, but it may also indicate the first step in > ethnic conflicts -- a heated public atmosphere on ethnic topics. > > If I offended any hispanics here, please take my honest excuses. I > simply took the real conditions in Kosovo and replaced "Albanians" and > "Serbs" with "Hispanics" and "Non-Hispanics", being aware that the > scenario is NOT entirely unrealistic altogether. Otherwise, I would have > chosen "Bavarians/Non-Barvarians". Unfortunately, Germany is still too > much a homogenous country for such an example. But we could do the same > role-play with Catholics/Protestants in Northern Ireland, and then it > would be 100 % realistic. What would have happened, if the Catholics had > gained majority in Northern Ireland and had democratically decided to > join the Republic of Ireland? > > Winfried > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 03:52:05 +0200 From: Marian Russell Subject: Bob Dylan in Vienna I went to see Bob Dylan in concert Friday night. I missed him in Detroit in October because everyone (including myself) wanted to go back to the hotel to hang out with Joni. I regretted not staying to see him, though - he is such a legend and I enjoy much of his music. What a great concert he gave last night! I had a seat near the center of the fifth row, and when he sang, sometimes it felt like he was looking right at me. I wore my Joni T-shirt - the greenish one with the TTT portrait on the front, and I hoped that he might see it and know that people who love Joni also love him. He sang so many of my favorite songs - Mr. Tambourine Man, Hard Rain's Gonna Fall, Masters of War, It's All Over Now Baby Blue, Make You Feel My Love, Not Dark Yet and Boots Of Spanish Leather (these last three were so beautiful and heartfelt that I cried). Some other songs included: Highway 61 Revisted, It Ain't Me Babe, Everybody Must Get Stoned, Stuck Inside Of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again, Like A Rolling Stone, Tryin' To Get To Heaven, Tangled Up In Blue. Nearly every song included an instrumental section which allowed for improvisation. Sitting there listening to this incredible musician, it was hard to imagine him making a crack to Joni about his plain chords. He is a great guitarist - he didn't just play rhythm guitar, but also played duets of lead parts with the second guitar player. It seemed like he played more songs with acoustic guitar than with electric - he did about the first 10 songs with acoustic, then switched to electric, then switched back to acoustic and then ended with electric. He played for at least two hours including the encore. His band was fabulous - I wish I knew their names (if anybody knows who his current band is, please let me know - he introduced them, but I'm hopeless at remembering stuff like that unless I hear it more than once). All band members were really great: the second guitar player sometimes played lead and also played complimentary chords to Dylan's - really wonderful duets the whole evening; the bass player played upright bass, electric bass and a funny acoustic-guitar-like bass; the drummer was outstanding; the pedal-steel player who also sometimes played mandolin. The band was very tight and the music was great. Of all the musicians in the band apart from Dylan himself who was mesmerizing, I was most impressed with the drummer - he seemed to have an amazing repertoire of sounds and rhythms, from very soft and subtle to really loud percussive stuff - and the second guitar player who played some incredible leads. I'm so glad I went to see Dylan. Saturday he played on the top of a mountain near the Swiss border. A couple of friends of mine were going and I'm looking forward to hearing about the concert. Wish I could have gone, too, but spent the whole day cleaning house - the parents-in-law arrive tomorrow for a two-week visit. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 22:57:44 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Insular NJC > > America is the most violent nation on earth and we have out hands full > dealing with what's going on in our own country, Colin. My point, Eric, was that no-one on this list commented about the atrocities-even tho we were discussing such things at the the time. Although it has since occurred to that no-one from here has commented either! It sometimes feels that the world is America.Maybe it is because America is so big and events like the NATO bombing of a european country or indiscriminate bombing in UK are so far away that it doesn't touch you. Mind you bombs in the UK have been very common and unfortunately supported and paid for by some US citizens. I was just surprised that during the thread spun off from Colorado, into guns, rascism, sexism etc, that the bombing of blacks, asians and gays didn't warrant a mention. Whilst I mention things that bug me, it does bug me that a trial is taking place of two men who perhaps planted a bomb on the Pan Am flight that blew up over Lockerbie. Not that I think they should not be held responsible but everyone seems very conventiantly to have forgotten that the US shot down an airliner, killing hundreds of men, women and children, in the middle east. I think it was an Iranian pasenger jet. No one has ever been held accountable for that. What about the grief of those people's survivors? It seems to me that the rules change according to who has the most power. Pretty obvious, i know, but age hasn't succeeded in making me blind yet. > E.T. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 23:03:27 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Winfried's provocative question (NJC) But then again it seems like it always has been "them" or "Us." And it always will be until people fully understand what personal responsibilty means. People need enemies in order that they live with thier view of themselves and the world. Much easir to turn someone, some race, some sex, some sxuality, some nation into the emnemy than it is to face one's true and only enemy-the self not accepted. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:05:24 +0200 From: Marian Russell Subject: Further thoughts on the Dylan concert (NJC) I just wanted to add that it's chilling how pertinent many of Dylan's songs still are, with the war in Kosovo, Littleton and this senseless violence against innocent minorities in England right now. Masters Of War - the way he sang it last night was very haunting, almost scary, and gave me goose-bumps. Also Hard Rain's Gonna Fall. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 15:07:22 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: A provocative question (NJC) Winfried escribir: > California, year 2050. Due to immigration and their explosive birth > rates, the hispanics make up 80 % of the state's population. Crime and > corruption are up 150 %. Non-hispanics are discriminated against. After > attempts to make Spanish the state's first official language are struck > down by a Supreme Court ruling, a referendum is introduced on whether > California should leave the USA and join Mexico. The majority votes in > favor of becoming "California del Norte", Mexico's most northerly > province. California's hispanic governor requires all U.S. military to > leave the state within 5 years. > > What would happen then? Would the U.S. peacefully let go California? > Would the non-hispanics live under Mexican rule? This reminds me of the old "compare and contrast" essay questions on a college exam ;-) Being a native I probably cannot ponder this question objectively but it did make me think of the differences between the situation in California and Kosovo. I don't think much will change here in 50 years but who knows - maybe in the year 3050 things may have evolved to the point where this will be a real question. Of course, by then we may all be under one-world government! The difference with California (and this is my usual optimisitc perspective) is that hispanics have been an intergral part of the region long before the U.S. The majority of our place names are either Spanish or Native American and the Spanish government sent over the Catholic padres to set up the mission system around which most of the towns, cities and agricultural developed. The Catholic church got a foothold here in the beginning (Christian religion in contrast to a non-Christian religion as in the case of the Muslims in Kosovo) so there was a commonality in religious beliefs with the Americanos. There was also significant inter-marriage between the native hispanic Spanish families and American frontiersmen, entrpreneuers and adventurers. The trend from the beginning has been more toward assimilation than partition and I think it is all too intertwined to ever realistically become separated. We have had issues with a huge influx of unreported "illegal" hispanic immigrants in the past 20 years where some argue that they are taking advantage of free medical and social services which is putting a drain on the state coffers, while not contributing back in the way of tax revenue. On the other side of the issue is the argument that they are providing many services at low cost (paid under the table) which also boosts our economy here. A big difference between California (and probably other states) is that Americans have long embraced the notion of itself as a "melting pot". While we do still have issues with racial and ethnic discrimination, we are probably a more assimilated and definitely less homogenous population than most other countries. Our inclination and tradition has always been weighted more towards unity than separation. I also posed a variation of your question to some friends recently with regard to Russia's anger at the U.S. bombing in Kosovo. How would Californians feel if Russia decided it didn't like a situation in Baja California, Mexico and started bombing the hell out of it? How would the American government and people react to that? Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:23:31 +0200 From: Marian Russell Subject: Soho bombing - (glad you're okay, colin!) (NJC) I came home last night from the Dylan concert with the news about the Soho bombing. My first thoughts were of colin and his partner. I'm so glad to know that you all are okay! It looks like they've got a pretty good suspect in custody at the moment - - found explosive materials in his residence. Hopefully any accomplices will soon be caught, too. Like the USA, England (even though guns are much more controlled there), is in many ways also a scary place to live - there's a lot of crime and vandalism and drug abuse there. England, like the USA, also has a hell of a lot of really nice people. It's too bad that people can't just live and let live so that everyone could spend their time doing pleasurable and interesting things instead of having to waste their energies defending themselves. How to convince everyone to stop attacking each other? I wish I had a solution. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:36:33 +0200 From: Marian Russell Subject: Shameless self-promotion (SJC) I haven't made it generally known, but since my last solo gig at the end of January, I joined a band that plays Dylan music. The band leader, Robert Koehler, organizes an annual international Dylan festival every year (has been doing this since the first one 20 years ago!). It was thanks to Robert that I got such a good seat at the Dylan concert on Friday. Anyway, the band, Johnny's In The Basement, will be playing at a castle in Plankenstein, Lower Austria, on Sunday, 23rd May. I'm playing keyboards, singing harmonies, and am doing a solo of Joni's Big Yellow Taxi (Dylan recorded it with that verse that Joni sings, except he sings it "and a big yellow bulldozer came and pushed around the house and pushed around the land!") - so I'm going to do all of Joni's verses and then Dylan's version of his verse. I'm also singing and playing guitar on All Along The Watchtower - along the lines of Michael Hedges' version, but with bass, drums and lead guitar. On Saturday, 22nd May, there will be an open mike and anyone can get up and sing, so I thought I'd do a couple of Dylan tunes and then play some Joni. Haven't decided a set-list yet, but hope to include Moon At The Window, Help Me (so *fun* to sing that one!), and maybe Night Ride Home or The Crazy Cries Of Love. I'd like to do The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey, just because it's so weird, but I have to see what the crowd is like first. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 16:48:18 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: NJC: Rally 'round the cause Since I've been so loud on the list recently about my feelings on the Colorado killings and gun bans, I thought I'd also share my activities of earlier today. The NRA held its meeting at the Adams-Mark Hotel in downtown Denver today. At 9AM, a rally of approximately 8,000 people met at the steps of the capitol building about two blocks away. I was there, and I'm glad I was. In many ways, I couldn't NOT be there. There were a few speakers, one of them being the father of one of the slain high school students. Cheryl Wheeler sang a song called "If It Were Up To Me" ("...we'd get rid of the guns"). There was rousing applause and shouts of support for many of the remarks, especially those encouraging political activism. Then they tolled the bell slowly, once for each of those killed at Columbine. I couldn't hold back my tears. There were also a few people there trying to disrupt the proceedings, but they were roundly chastised by one of the speakers, who also took to task those in the media who ran over to illuminate these guys with cameras and microphones. I have to say that I applauded that, too -- they weren't the story today, and their handful to our thousands didn't merit the coverage. Then we all walked together to the hotel, carrying signs and quietly singing. We got to the hotel and walked the block around it. (Earlier plans to encircle the hotel with our hands clasped were nixed -- it makes sense to me that they were, but it would have been a cool gesture.) Many people walked back up to the capitol building, and a few of us stayed behind to demonstrate in front of the hotel. I watched for more than an hour as this human train continued to stream by -- it was an awesome sight to see so many people gathered together in peaceful protest. The police were out in force. One of them was really cool -- apologizing to us for interrupting our chanting to ask us to move back to make room for pedestrians. (We were chanting: "What do we want? No more guns. When do we want it? Now!") Everyone had his and her own reason for being there. Some people displayed signs which I thought were vulgar, and some were just dumb and off the point. Many thought the NRA was being insensitive by showing up. Some were for gun control (like a great little group of Hunters for Gun Control!); and some (like me) were for bans. Some people used our rally to piggyback their own causes (like one particularly loud and baiting Christian fundamentalist who wanted to ban public schools). When the NRA members came out of the hotel, they saw only a fraction of the number of people who had been there that morning. Many of them sneered and jeered at us as they walked by -- I brooked many a rude remark, and all I was doing was standing there holding a sign (it was handed to me by one of the organizers of the event -- it had a photo of a gun with a caption that said that it's easier for a child to empty one of these than a bottle of aspirin). A few of the NRA members engaged some of us in debate; again, it was an apples-and-oranges kind of thing. I couldn't help but be annoyed by the NRA-ers who were glassy-eyed, grinning from ear to ear, and used very condescending language and tones. (But I tried not to show it.) One of these well-dressed men had one of his pant-legs completely rolled up to reveal his artificial leg - -- he called me "darling" and told me that my contention that guns should be banned was discriminatory against disabled people! (I called him "sweetie" and told him that he was just trying to bait me, and I wasn't gonna bite!) But many people fell for the bait, and some heated exchanges ensued, and only a few of them made any real sense. Some of NRA members behaved deplorably, and it was a real shame to see grown men carry on so. And to be fair, a woman standing next to me for a while tried to get me to join in with her as she made fun of the appearance of one overweight pro-gun supporter, and called him a crackpot. That was a shame, too, and I ignored her and walked away, although I probably should have told her what I'm telling you about it. It's an emotional issue for both sides, and it's too bad that things degenerate like they often do. But I was more interested in engaging in reasonable debate, which I did as well. I wasn't there to make fun of anyone, including their beliefs. I wasn't even there to protest the NRA, especially; although that's what had initially brought me out. I was there because it mattered -- it mattered to the organizers of the event, because being counted -- literally -- is important to any cause. I was there because I'd like to think that it mattered to the families in Littleton, as well as people across the country who are devastated by gun violence. I was there because I know it mattered to the NRA. They didn't NOT show up because they couldn't get their deposit back on the banquet room, y'know. And they weren't there IN SPITE of the killings at Columbine. They were there BECAUSE of it. To be absent would have been to admit that, yes, guns kill, and perhaps it's time to reign this "freedom" in. And I was there because it mattered to me -- I know it may seem awfully self-congratulatory to be writing this to the list, but I'm doing it because I'm been very vocal to this point, and I just want to encourage people to get involved. I didn't want to just talk to talk; I wanted to walk the walk -- and I will continue to do so -- because it matters. Thanks for letting me share this. If there were any other Colorado jimdlers there today, I'd like to hear about your experiences, too. "Guns don't die; people do." Kate in CO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 19:01:09 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: A provocative question (NJC) In a message dated 5/1/99 1:22:17 PM Central Daylight Time, whuehn@stud.uni-goettingen.de writes: << What would happen then? Would the U.S. peacefully let go California? Would the non-hispanics live under Mexican rule? >> Here's what I think would happen: Joni shows up, now she's over 100 and still has a great voice despite smoking fo over 80 years. Because of her age she demands instant respect from all sides. She sings Califonia, then Woodstock, then Tea-Leaf Prophecy...folks on all sides are so impressed and so blown away they decide to forget all the feuding and get along, and they all get in a big circle like in "The Grinch" but instead of YAHOO-DORAYS, they're all singing "The Circle Game"... Bob NP: XTC, "Making Plans for Nigel"(alternate version) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 00:25:32 +0100 From: "gerry mcnee" Subject: RE:the london bombings (njc) last 5 buys > I am beginning to wonder if it is true that only what happens in the USA >> is of any importance to Americans. >> Very little has been said about the Balkans war. And NOTHING about the >> three bombs targeted at Blacks, Asians and Gays here in London. >> The Colorado/gun thread has run and run(as have previous shooting >> threads on this list). Yet no one seems to have anything to say. Maybe >> if it happened in the USA.... i am extremely saddend by what is happening in london ,it could very easily of been me or one of my friends sat in that bar.what fuels such hatred of strangers, they must have total self loathing imo. Today i walked down old compton st and was very touched by all the floral tributes , reading the inscriptions on the cards reminded me that there is still love in this world despite these acts of destruction,carried out by what is probably a group of 12 or so people, and very sick people at that. I only hope they are captured and soon and may they rot in hell although im of the opinion that they are already rotting in a hell of their own design i mean to carry out such acts knowing what the consequences could be, and for what, because someone has a different skin colour or happens to find the same sex attractive.These people are dead in the head and what a hell that must be but why should the living suffer,something must be done. last 5 buys: Dory Previn; Mary c. Brown and the hollywood sign/on my way to where [2 albums in 1 c.d package] Hector Zazou;chansons des mers froides[a world music type thing with a fabulous guest apperance from jane siberry amongst others] Tom Waits; mule variations Soft cell; non stop ecstatic dancing [bought for the 12" version of insecure me] Stina Nordenstam; people are strange [check out her cover of purple rain ] I tried to buy the David Lahm jtojm but my enquires were met with blank stares except for one guy in tower records who said he had heard of it but when he checked on the computer nothing came up does anyone know if this is available anywhere in london. np : dory previn on my way to where. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 16:46:38 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: Black Crow Well, I finally got a copy of PWWAM, and locally as it happens. I walked into one of Sydney's big music stores and there it was! That evening I spent a very enjoyable hour and a half in the company of Ms Mitchell. Isn't it strange how hearing a song out of context can sometimes provoke a fresh response. If I'd been asked to discuss favourite songs from 'Hejira' "Black Crow" would probably not have got a mention. But as soon as JM began singing it (the first of the four 'Hejira' songs performed), it was like a revelation. I'm not suggesting this version is better than the album one, just that I suddenly realised how much I like it. How could I have overlooked it for so long? What a great image "that black crow flying in a blue sky" is, and one that an Australian can respond to as much as an American. As in America and Britain, the crow figures prominently in our folklore and literature too. It is associated particularly with the arid outback, sometimes referred to as a place "where the crows fly backward to keep the dust out of their eyes". Australians sometimes "stone the crows" when they are surprised or disgusted and occasionally "draw the crow" when they get a bad deal. The crow in Australia is an outcast, a survivor that adapts to an unsympathetic environment - a theme I think of Joni's song. John. PS. I made a statement in an earlier post that I was "glad I didn't transfer to the NJC list". How stupid! I meant, of course, to the Joni-only list. Had I done that I would have missed the important debate on guns etc. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #195 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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