From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #191 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, April 30 1999 Volume 04 : Number 191 TapeTree #8 is ready to roll. To sign up go to: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Taber Shooting (njc) [evian ] More info on Joni's musical influences and style [marc.verbruggen@alcatel] Re: Joni gets a degree! (JC) ["Kakki" ] Joni gets a degree (JC) [evian ] Re: Hitler Article at cybereditions.com NJC ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: Hello-HA! DJRD [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] RE: Re: Colorado (NJC) [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] NJC guns, hope [Vince Lavieri ] RE: Colorado/High School NJC [Jenaya Dawe ] Repeal 2nd Amendment? -- NJC [al_date@email.com] Re: Repeal 2nd Amendment? -- NJC [Don Rowe ] LOTCNJC [catman ] Re: JEN- MOST THOUGHT PROVOKING NJC [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Repeal 2nd Amendment? -- NJC [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re[2]: Colorado/High School NJC [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Repeal 2nd Amendment? -- NJC ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: JEN- MOST THOUGHT PROVOKING NJC [catman ] The Wainrights and McGarrigles on Fresh Air NPR (NJC) [Brian Gross ] Re: Hello-HA! DJRD ["Mark or Travis" ] Guns - Freedom - Taber - High School (NJC) [Brett Code Subject: Taber Shooting (njc) Yes, it has happened again, this time in Taber, Alberta -- I won't take up list space with the details. If you are interested, go to www.newsworld.cbc.ca, although they don't really go into detail, such as the shooter wore a trenchcoat. Anyone who has access to CBC radio in the morning, there will be a discussion about whether all guns shall be banned. Freaked out, and going to bed, Evian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:28:48 +0200 From: marc.verbruggen@alcatel.be Subject: More info on Joni's musical influences and style My 15 year old daughter is going to write a paper on Joni Mitchell. I gave her a lot of information from the great www.jonimitchell.com website, but she would like to receive more information on her different music styles, the persons that influence(d) her. If anyone can send me more information, she will be very happy. Please mail it to marc.verbruggen@alcatel.be Thanks, also from my daughter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:35:21 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni gets a degree! (JC) Dear Joan, This certainly beats that cheesy little R&R Hall of Fame award tossed your way, eh? As you asked, I did melt it down and made a rather nice little sculpture from it for you. You are quite the clever girl, leading everyone to think I was really Klein. But all credit where it is due, he has done such a bloody good job defending himself as "Don Rowe" that is was about time for him to uncover himself. I'm still safe - that Dulson fellow has kindly agreed to come out as me and I think it will be very believable to the folks. His hybrid California-Manchester accent comes through even in his writing. Nice chap, he is. David is here and wanted to say hello so I will pass the keys over to him. See you soon, luv. Graham N.P. Willy - Live at Our House 4/29/69 JOANIE! You're not still mad at me, are you? You don't call, you don't write. I still don't know what I did to tick you off this time. Please...can't we be pals again, huh? I know I tend to go on a roll and run off at the mouth in interviews about the old days.....but hey, you do, too, sweetie! You may have heard me and the boys are working on a tour this summer and we've all agreed you just HAVE to join us. It will be just like Deja Vu all over again....you can smoke to your heart's content riding in the Lear jet, chronicle the journey with a batch of new songs....come on...this beats busing it with The Bob any day. Lion Hugs, Croz NP: The Dawntreader (a new cover I've just worked out with CPR - you gotta hear it!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 02:14:00 -0600 From: evian Subject: Joni gets a degree (JC) Croz writes: > You're not still mad at me, are you? > Well, DUH! Musselini my ASS, David! You think you are all flowers and butterflies to work with? And that ego! I even prayed for you when you had the operation..... Maybe I will join you for the tour... but one more comment about me having balls, and I will pop you in your chubby nose, my friend! And ANOTHER version of the Dawntreader?? Honey, get over yourself already! np in MY house, David: "THE WINDFALL" And Willy dear, sorry about throwing that Klein persona on you... Les and the gang were starting to get suspicious of Don Rowe... they were figuring it all out, and I needed Klein to stay on the list -- I still needed a spy, and the women sure do love Larry, so I had to use you as a decoy... no regrets, coyote... but Klein still rules the roost, so to speak! Hope to see you this summer on the tour... but please, I don't care if David sweats like a warthog... I am allergic to air conditioning, so tell him to deal with it! love, Joan p.s. the vase is still on the shelf, but the cats are no longer in the yard... after the trouble I went through with Man from Mars, they don't leave the house anymore... Klein/Don Rowe can fill you in on our cat traumas. ....Willie -- there are still so many reasons, why I luv yoooou.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:56:23 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: Hitler Article at cybereditions.com NJC Sorry to take up bandwidth again, but anyone interested in a REALLY thought-provoking article on the Balcan mess and our (NATO) dealing with it, try this link: http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/highlights/divide_survive/index.html Warning: it will be a painful lecture Winfried, completely reassessing his viewpoints ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:53:51 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on "Jeopardy!" Kate said: <> I'm sure you're right, Kate. I made a beeline for the PC anxious to type JC to y'all at the mere mention of Joni and the front end of the question. Could've sworn I heard a contestant chime in out of the corner of my eye. Assumed that one was a gimme...an utter no brainer! Like, duh. Fools, I tell you. Fools...like me. {blush} Thanks for setting the record straight. Geez, nothing gets by you guys. I didn't blither completely, though. I got the category part right. Right? See, I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it... I've got to get on that show! With questions like the ones tonight I could get my hands on some of that...easy money (is this what Rickie Lee Jones was talking about?). - -Julius np: Jeopordy theme song in my head, over and over and over. No wait. Aghh! Just segued into a dreaded endless loop of "It's a Small World After All" !! Must...dial...9-1-1... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:55:45 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: NJC the celtic hiccup - -----Original Message----- From: Wally Kairuz >Don Rowe wrote: > >>> People may not have picked up on this, but I'll bet >>> money that Delores O'Reardon (sp?) is the Dr. >>> Frankenstein to the Alanis Creature. Ever wonder >>> where Alanis got all that shrieky warbling from? > >Ken reasoned: > >I always figured that went back a bit further to Sinead >>O'Conner > Sure, many crimes against music including Sinead, Cranberries etc, have celtic origins. Our hall of shame is large but I think the Alanis connection is unfair. Someone else will have to take responsibility for that atrocity. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 00:01:34 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Smackwater Jack (NJC) Wally K wrote: >I never really knew whom Carole was referring to in Smackwater Jack. I >remember an old video of one of her concerts in which she said after singing >the song, "And you know who I'm talking about!" It looked like she was >singing about a real case. Now the tone of the song suggests that she's >actually on Jack's side -- she seems to be making too much fun of the >townspeople and the posse. And then Carole lived so many years with her >family out there in the middle of nowhere that maybe she owns a gun or two. >WallyK I realise now that I miscredited James Taylor with Machine Gun Kelly. He did record it (on Mud Slide Slim) but it was written by Danny (Kootch) Kortchmar. Now I think about it, you may be right about the gun thing. I never thought about SJ being a sarcastic dig at the "lynch-mob", but I did get my first copy at age 12, and wasn't really worldly enough at picking up these things. And since I've never really sat down and re-interpreted the song, the initial "face-value" take of the lyrics has stuck! Carole's home in the middle of nowhere was a real "back to nature" thing. No running water, although they had hot springs close to the house (log cabin). But there were a lot of people, and I always got the impression (perhaps incorrectly) that it was a commune thing. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but there were a few kids, so if they had guns around, I suspect it would have been for hunting purposes only. Helen NP - Nothing - I can't decide. I HATE that! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:08:03 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Hello-HA! DJRD Eric returns: ***Also seriously listened to DJRD the other day and must say I think it is Joni's finest. No wonder Charles Mingus wanted her to compose his final album! Joco is superb!! But Paprika Plains is in a league with Ludwig.... *** Welcome back, Eric! Yes, DJRD is quite a feast - I'd love to hear what folks make of Paprika Plains...I don't even know where to start with it! I love DJRD though, one of the songs I've really felt recently is "Jericho" - such an honest love song, the way that she combines the emotions and feelings with the mechanics of a relationship. "I need your confidence, baby, and the gift of your extra time In turn I'll give you mine Sweet Darling, it's a rich exchange" "Anyone can tell you just how hard it is to make and keep a friend Maybe they'll short sell you - or maybe it's you Judas, in the end When you just can no longer pretend That you're getting what you need Or you're giving out anything for them to grow and feed on" It's words like these that separate Joni from the crowd; most love songs are one-sided, here Joni doesn't talk about the elation of love, or the sadness of love gone bad, but rather the responsibility of love and the realization that if it's not working, it could just as easily be the fault of either party. And she also realizes there are no guarantees..."I'll TRY to keep myself open up to you...". She sings the exact same line (3) times in the song, and each time it means something different: The first time it's almost as if the emphasis is on "open", the promise of the new relationship; the second time it seems like it's "to you", acknowledging the needs of her partner; the final time it plays as if the focus is on "myself", realizing she has to let run free the "wild and gentle dogs" inside of her. Just one great song off of a bonafide masterpiece... Bob NP: Paul McCartney, "Long Haired Lady" (kinda sad to hear this one now) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:16:24 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Re: Colorado (NJC) I wrote about the appeal of the Second Amendment: <<>> And Kate replied: <<>> Everything I wrote is true, except that I should have said that such an amendment (overturning the Second) will never come to the floor of the CURRENT House of Representatives. That was an oversight on my part. I work for a Member of Congress. To my knowledge, NOT ONE MEMBER has even drafted legislation for the repeal of the Second Amendment. That does not mean that it is impossible, but it means that the answer to the question originally posed (has the process been started) is indeed no. So if you wish to repeal the Second Amendment, start writing letters, and more importantly, checks, and vote against every Republican House member you can. Even if you like your local Republican Congresscritter, he or she is part of a majority that has installed the current leadership that will keep Second Amendment repeal legislation from the floor as long as they receive more campaign money from the NRA than from you. And if you're voting for Democrats, make sure THEY support your opinions as well. You can't take anything for granted. You are right--it is not impossible. But it is a huge, huge, HUGE task. - --Michael NP: Soundtrack, _Batman Forever_ - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:17:58 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC guns, hope I am wary of any attempt to repeal the 2nd Amendment. The first ten amendments to the constitution, the Bill of Rights, are too much a cornerstone of our nation to tamper with. The courts have held that the 2nd Amendment applies to a well-ordered militia, not to any individual's unfettered right to own any weapon. Legislation along those lines to control and eliminate guns from society would be the direction that I would prefer. Previous posts by other people here have expressed that quite eloquently so I will not repeat those arguments. The guns must go. That will not bring total peace and harmony; it will take years to get guns out of circulation, but every gun removed from the access of some person who wants to act on an impulse or emotion will ensure safety for others. The current leadership and the majority party in the Congress must go, and that means voting Democratic whether you like it or not. The current Republican leadership has been well-described here by others. Right now that GOP leadership is pushing a constitutional amendment regarding flag burning... a cheap political gimmick that addresses not one problem in this country, and tramples on free speech. As long as the Republicans are in control of the House, this is what we will get: diversions from real problems while they wave the flag as a cloak for inaction. Ever wonder if the pre-shooting actions of these white, affluent male youths in Littleton, or the white, male, rural and/or affluent youths in the other school shootings would have raised a different response from the powers that be if they had been African American, Hispanic, or Native American? Our nation's racism keeps us focused on the "danger" and "problems" of young black males, while these school shootings, Jasper, Texas, Oklahoma City, the Matthew Shepherd killing, were all accomplished by white males... and none of them from "the big city" but all from suburbia and rural America. As a native Chicagoan who lives in a semi-rural community in Michigan, as a white, middle class male, I ask if we are not looking for some of the answers in the wrong places. And maybe we should reflect that a piece of the puzzle is our adult word going on and on and on about this "new millennium" as if arbitrary numbers on a human-invented calendar determines the fate of the earth, and our Y2K "everything will crash" hysteria... leaving young people with a very pessimistic and fatalistic impression of their future. We keep saying that everything is getting worse and worse, that it will all fail, that everything will crash... no words of hope, no words of promise, no words of future. So perhaps it is no wonder that some young people may say, if the world is all going to hell anyway and there is no future, why not do whatever now and go out with a bang. As has been said here, it takes a village to raise a child. And we have to believe that, as Graham Nash and David Crosby sang, "we can change the world." And last word: Littleton is not a new event nor the largest school murder, so let's not take this as a sign of the good old days were better. The worst school diaster happened in Michigan in the good old days of the 1920s (maybe the 30s, I could be off on the year here) in Bath, Michigan when a member of the school board (white, amle, rural, for what its worth) blew up the school killing 30+ students and teachers in a proptest against property taxes. These things have happened before and the cries that "this never happened before" are just not valid. Then too we had gangs with guns shooting and killing people as well, but we have romanticized Bonnie and Clyde, John Dillinger, Al Capone... (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:23:44 -0700 From: Jenaya Dawe Subject: RE: Colorado/High School NJC MDESTE@aol.com wrote me off list.... >Your post is interesting from several standpoints. (1) You mention these kids >were menacing but you dont say how or why. (2) You refer in several ways to >aberrant "behavior" but dont specify what exactly. Assuming that they just >"looked weird" or "acted wierd or threatening" (but not enough to call the >cops), it seems to this reader that they were simply guys who stood out as >being "different". My question is two parts and from two different ends of >the spectrum: I cant see anything specifically that was done TO these guys >enough to infuriate them so why would they want to seek some form of >"revenge". Part two is have we reached the point where individual expression >by dress or appearance is enough to cause suspicion of potentially dangerous >behavior. While this has me feeling slightly defensive, he's got some good points perhaps I should elaborate on.. 1.) These kids WERE menacing. They were very outspoken on the right to keep and bear arms, and they had very specific political views regarding gun control (which they opposed in any form) and individual rights. They talked at length about how "right-on" certain infamous militia groups were It wasn't uncommon to hear one of them mention how certain groups of people (whether in the school, the community, or the world) would "get what was coming to them." They, or at least the kid in my government class, was very outspoken on the virtues of both segregation and nationalism. 2.) I wouldn't say that anyone's behavior was "aberrant", just that they formed a certain platform, you could say, on which to seperate themselves from the bulk of the student body. They didn't look weird, they looked like a little uniform group of skinheads. Mostly, they looked rediculous, and their dress and their socio-political opinion were the butt of many many jokes, many of which cracks slipped from the mouths of teachers and administrators more frequently than from the students. This is an important point, as teaching is part leading by example. First of all, it condoned, if not encouraged and rewarded, cruel behavior by the student body towards thse kids. Second, it further alienated and infuriated the outsiders from the school. One kid actually came at a teacher who made a snide remark about "militants among us" in his government class. I don't think individual expression by dress or appearance is enough to cause suspicion. I looked like a freak in high school! I had purple and black braids down to my ass, and I dressed mostly in vintage clothes and combat boots, in a town where everyone else dressed in nothing but Gap. But *I* wasn't scary, and while I was an occassional target for ridicule, no one was scared of me, and I didn't feel especially picked on. It certainly never occurred to me to seek revenge. But I wasn't bringing gun and militia magazines to school and talking about the need to legalize assault weapons, overthrow the government, seperate the classes and feed the liberals to the lions like the Romans did the Christians.... Wouldn't you call that suspicious of potentially dangerous behavior? Jenaya. NP: Disillusioned- Sinead Lohan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:22:59 -0400 (EDT) From: al_date@email.com Subject: Repeal 2nd Amendment? -- NJC Now that I have openly encouraged everyone interested in disarming American citizens to repeal the 2d Amendment, let me add that I will definitely not join you in that endeavor. While repeal is the constitutionally-honest way to advance an antigun agenda, I believe that when the argument is framed in that clear light, that the Bill of Rights should/will be left as it is. In Israel, in 1974, the govt had the same debate. Terrorists had taken 100 children hostage at a school in Maalot. During the rescue attempt, 25 people were killed and 66 wounded. There was an outcry in Israel to get rid of the guns. But a different course was taken. Instead of taking away guns, Israel made sure that they were more plentiful. All military reservists were issued personal weapons. Anyone with a clean record was given a concealed-carry permit. Teachers -- even kindergarten nurses-- began carrying guns. Schools were protected by parents, not after-the-fact SWAT teams. No school group went anywhere without armed guards. At age 15, kids began receiving gun safety lessons. Guess what. No more school terrorism in Israel. - --Al Date - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:36:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Repeal 2nd Amendment? -- NJC Ladies ... and ... Gentlemen! In the red corner, ready and waiting to stir things up with his oar ... the one, the only ... Mr. Al Date!! Are you ready? I ask you ... Are you ready!? ARE YOU READY TO RUM-BLE!! Welcome back, Al. We've missed you so. Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:38:26 +0100 From: catman Subject: LOTCNJC I have had this on repeat most of the afternoon as I have been working out in the garden. yes, that is what I said, working in the garden. I am not sure why but it seems a most appropriate album to play on a sunny country day. Morning Morgantown!! Anyhow, things are not so hard as I thought. The overgrown bushes down the sides are actua;lly hedges and look like it now. I trimmed them all back and down. My neighbour, an Italian lorry(truck)driver leant me his tool for this. Unfortunately within five minutes I had cut through the electric cable! Still, he was fine about it and fixed it. I also have his flymo and have cut most of the lawn down too. It all is looking much better. he is also going to give me the wood I need to fence a compound off for the dogs. Funny how things that at first llook dificult and expensive turn out not to be when you have a neighbour who knows what is what. Unlike me. The last time i saw a lawn mower it was one of those things you push along and blades rotate which cut the grass. I think the last time I had a garden was in Australia in the early 70's. Also found out that the trees I wanted gone cos they looked like dead bushes to me are in fact apple and pear trees! And an elderflower bush too. Oh, and I cut up a pile of big weeds which turned out to be rhubarb! bw colin having a lovely Joni day in the garden - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:55:55 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: JEN- MOST THOUGHT PROVOKING NJC You know the most important thing you have introduced here is the obvious hostility that academia has towards the values that libertarians and conservatives have. The fact that this may actually contribute towards the violence or should I say the frustration felt by kids that builds up and leads to violence. There is no doubt in my mind that such hostility exists and that while Nigger and Fag are certainly "hate" terminology the immediate labeling of anyone who believes in individual rights (as opposed to dependence on government) as an extreemist is not only tolerated but practiced. In other words while gays, women, and people of color are protected by the system in the schools with punishment for anyone who expresses their opinion (negative) about such groups it is in fact open season on anyone who harbors libertarian values or in any way voices opinions counter to the left. The experience right here on this list in the dialogue on the Colorado matter is that ANY opinion in favor of the 2nd amendment interpretation that allows for gun ownership is immediately dismissed or worse considered dangerous by the lefties. They ignore any and all evidence to the contrary. So my question is "what outlet do the conservatives have in the schools" answer:none. The only option is ridicule. While the kids diary spoke to taunting and ostracization virtually no one from the school is even describing any and all contributions that they may have made to this aspect of the matter. Hmmmmm. Could it be that the whole story is not being revealed. In other words, when you label someone as 'menacing' it reminds me of what people used to say about blacks just for being there on a street corner. If it is ok to feel threatened by the talk you described then what about someone who hears someone say that the government should take all children away from "disfunctional" parents (ie disfunctional being open to a broad interpretation) and have the village raise them to insure the infusion of proper values. What about someone who hears someone say that their system for self protection must be taken from them after the government agents break down their door and forcibly removes it (if necessary). How about "sensetivity" training for liberals to better understand conservatism so as to alleviate their fear. Of course this sounds ridiculous to liberals BUT this is the mechanism that is always prescribed when the shoe is on the other foot. It is this government as dictator that right wingers despise and fear. In other words liberals as we have learned with Clinton and the Demos have a tremendous problem ever seing themselves as responsible for anything negative or bad while at the same time having no problem raising the level of personal intolerance of those who disagree with them to immediate incendiary terminology. Will we ever get an answer to this in Colorado, not as long as the media prefers to go night after night with the grief and the tragedy. Your post is very thought provoking and this subject should be investigated further. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:59:07 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Repeal 2nd Amendment? -- NJC Al shares this vision of Utopia: <> But who would want to live in this kind of world? Certainly not me, shit, the first bullet I'd fire would be into my own head... Bob NP: Hothouse Flowers, "Movies" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:54:38 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Colorado/High School NJC Jenaya said that Marcel said: << Part two is have we reached the point where individual expression >by dress or appearance is enough to cause suspicion of potentially dangerous behavior. >> I would say that this is not a point we've reached, but is a part of the human condition; that is, a fear/prejudice based on one's appearance. All of us can think of "types" we wouldn't want to run into in a dark alley, (to coin a phrase), whether it's a skinhead, a biker, a teenager, a middle class white guy in a suit, whatever. That's just instinct, it's inbred in us and gets worse the older we get. So Marcel, definitely dress and/or appearance can cause suspicion of potentially dangerous behavior. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, just a natural defense mechanism. What I DO think is a bad thing is how we've all become so disconnected that people suspect EVERYBODY of being a potential criminal. You can't even look at someone or say good morning to a stranger without inciting some kind of paranoia. Like the world's one big elevator and everyone's fearful of interacting with each other. Like Joni says "You bump into a stranger and you both apologize"... Neighborhoods are much more disconnected than when I was young; kids would always be out playing together, adults would be out conversing with one another. It seems to be a lot different now - many of our neighbors I've never even met - not from lack of effort, but a lack of willingness on THEIR part. Kids only play together if the parents have arranged a "play date" - it's a very insulated existence, and certainly fosters a "me against the world" mindset. Well, that's enough...I sound like some kind of cranky old fart! Bob NP: Hothouse Flowers "I can see clearly now" (another fabulous cover)..are these guys still together? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:48:30 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: Repeal 2nd Amendment? -- NJC al_date@email.com schrieb: > > Instead of taking away guns, Israel made sure that they were more plentiful. All military reservists were issued personal weapons. Anyone with a clean record was given a concealed-carry permit. Teachers -- even kindergarten nurses-- began carrying guns. Schools were protected by parents, not after-the-fact SWAT teams. No school group went anywhere without armed guards. At age 15, kids began receiving gun safety lessons. > Guess what. No more school terrorism in Israel. - -- Al Date Oh really?!? Well, maybe not IN schools, but definitely AT schools -- bus stops, inside school buses, market stands, churches, mosques, synagogues, pedestrian zones -- basically anywhere and anytime!!! As most Arab terrorist attacks are executed by suicide commands, carrying bombs on their bodies -- why should these be deterred by concealed guns? Winfried, very much wishing Israel lasting peace and friendship with its neigbors ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:36:34 -0700 From: "Alan Larson" Subject: Great Children's Songs--very little Joni content Here is my list of songs I would like to someday be fortunate to perform for children. I play rhythm guitar, an old Gibson J-35 sunburst acoustic, and sing. If anyone knows of any real classic children's songs I'm overlooking, please feel free to add them in reply. thanks. 1. Puff the Magic Dragon 2. Circle Game 3. Paul Stookey's song about baseball, whatever its name. Anyone? 4. The Pony Man -- Gordon Lightfoot 5. Time Was -- Phil Ochs 6. Bad Bad Leroy Brown -- Jim Croce 7. You've Got a Friend -- Carole King 8. House on Pooh Corner -- Kenny Loggins 9. If I Had Wings -- PP&M 10. On the Amazon -- Don McLean I know the age of the children sung to would make a big difference, but I guess I'm shooting at the 8-12 year range. What do you think of these selections? Can you think of any other great ones? alan@ames.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:55:20 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Great Children's Songs--very little Joni content Personally, I would omit "Big, Bad Leroy Brown" especially after Littleton, Colorado. "Day is Done" by Peter, Paul & Mary might be very appropriate, however. There is a Limelighters' album from the 60s called "Through Children's Eyes" that has a ton of wonderful children's songs, if it is still available anywhere. Marlo Thomas had some great stuff in the 70s, and there is always the Beatles "Yellow Submarine." And a great pleaser in my work with kids has always been Loudon Wainwright III's "Dead Skunk in the Middle of the Road." (the Rev) Vince Alan Larson wrote: > Here is my list of songs I would like to someday be fortunate to perform for > children. I play rhythm guitar, an old Gibson J-35 sunburst acoustic, and > sing. > > If anyone knows of any real classic children's songs I'm overlooking, please > feel free to add them in reply. thanks. > > 1. Puff the Magic Dragon > > 2. Circle Game > > 3. Paul Stookey's song about baseball, whatever its name. Anyone? > > 4. The Pony Man -- Gordon Lightfoot > > 5. Time Was -- Phil Ochs > > 6. Bad Bad Leroy Brown -- Jim Croce > > 7. You've Got a Friend -- Carole King > > 8. House on Pooh Corner -- Kenny Loggins > > 9. If I Had Wings -- PP&M > > 10. On the Amazon -- Don McLean > > I know the age of the children sung to would make a big difference, but I > guess I'm shooting at the 8-12 year range. What do you think of these > selections? Can you think of any other great ones? > > alan@ames.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:17:10 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Repeal 2nd Amendment? -- NJC al_date@email.com wrote: > > In Israel, in 1974, the govt had the same debate. Terrorists had taken 100 children hostage at a school in Maalot. During the rescue attempt, 25 people were killed and 66 wounded. There was an outcry in Israel to get rid of the guns. But a different course was taken. > > Instead of taking away guns, Israel made sure that they were more plentiful. All military reservists were issued personal weapons. Anyone with a clean record was given a concealed-carry permit. Teachers -- even kindergarten nurses-- began carrying guns. Schools were protected by parents, not after-the-fact SWAT teams. No school group went anywhere without armed guards. At age 15, kids began receiving gun safety lessons. > > Guess what. No more school terrorism in Israel. > > --Al Date > Guns for everyone! Israel, land of freedom! No Israeli fanatics shooting up Palestinians in their mosques! Palestinian fanatics totally deterred from terrorism! No Prime Ministers assassinated! Total peace and freedom, total liberation! "Happiness is a warm gun. Bang bang. Shoot shoot. When I feel your finger on my trigger, I no no one can do me no harm." John Lennon, murdered by a a crazed man with a gun, 1980. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:18:48 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: JEN- MOST THOUGHT PROVOKING NJC I am not sure I understood your mail. However, I was struck by a couple of things. Yes, it does seem that people who look different or who live differently are seen as threatening. Believe it or not, I am seen as such by many people. First because of my homesexuality. For some reason I will never fathom, it is considered a threat. Mainly by the 'right wingers'. however, I have equally been ostracised by the 'lefties' for my lifestyle(stable 18 year 'marriage'. I don't work, John does, I take care of the home). This was brought forcibly home to me when I worked at an HIV/AIDS centre. Personally, I consider myself niether a lefty or a righty. Just me. I guess I am an idividualist. I find many laws unjust and unethical. There should be no laws whatever regarding adult relations, except where minors are concerned, and where violence or coercion are involved(like rape). As far as I can see the only laws ethical are those that protect the rights of the idividual to live as a free person. This includes theft, corruption etc etc. Does not include censorship of books, mags, plays, films etc. In my experience, both the left and the right interfere where they have no business interfering. Abortion should only be the decision of the pregnant woman and no one else. Euthanasia should only be the decision of the person desiring it. The legal contract of marriage should be able to be entered into by any couple who wish it regardless of their gender. I think the owning of guns by the idividual should be illegal because it is detrimental to the lives of all other individuals. Whilst I am not advocating, because we don;t know the story, that the parents of the boys who shot those kids and themselves, should be ounished, but I definately think that the parents of children who roam the street vandalising cars and peoples homes and taking drugs and causing a great deal of harm and stress to others must be held accountable for what their offspring are doing. as things stand, here anyway, these children get away with it because the law can't touch them and their parents don't give a shit. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:21:39 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Repeal 2nd Amendment? -- NJC Al Date wrote: 'Guess what. No more school terrorism in Israel.' But what a terrible price to pay. Killing has become just another daily occurrance on both sides in that conflict. Children brought up to hate and use guns. Well, that is one way to handle it-don't get rid of guns just arm evryone. Way to go. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:17:02 -0400 From: LOREN CARTER Subject: Re: Repeal 2nd Amendment? -- NJC -Reply Bob, Shortly after the school shootings out west, the Washington Post ran an editorial picture of a large NRA spokesperson, chewing on a stoogie, with $$$ and assorted handguns sticking out of every pocket, the caption said "If those kids were armed this whole thing could have been avoided." (or something to that effect) Funny, and sad, but I'm sure Chuck and the rest of the NRA leadership truly believes that. Poor stupid misguided humans. Loren.... NP...Crystal Blue Persuasion...Tommy James and the Shondels >>> 04/29/99 02:59pm >>> Al shares this vision of Utopia: <> But who would want to live in this kind of world? Certainly not me, shit, the first bullet I'd fire would be into my own head... Bob NP: Hothouse Flowers, "Movies" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:36:35 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Great Children's Songs--very little Joni content While I haven't heard it played on guitar, "John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmitt" has always been a favorite among kids I've worked with (okay, I like it, too). That and the "Hokey Pokey" have cute little dances that go along with them as well. Then there's "Itsy Bitsy Spider". Oh, to be young again. - -Julius, np: "Who put the 'bop' in the bop shoo bop, who put the 'bang' in the polly walla bing bang." Name *that* tune. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:45:18 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: Colorado (NJC) I'm glad I didn't transfer to the NJC list. I have found it hard and have failed to find satisfactory words to contribute to the intense and necessary debate surrounding the terrible events in Colorado. However, I have followed a good deal of it and found agreement with many of the wise and deeply felt opinions expressed. Despite the sense of deja vu that always seems to accompany these debates, I really think that they are important in the struggle to maintain optimism in the face of all the horrors that punctuate human history. I don't want to become misanthropic. I want to pass on an idealism to my children even in the face of the fact that, sadly, this same debate will almost certainly be repeated down the track. I want them to believe, too, that we are "stardust" and "golden", even if we are clearly no nearer "the garden". John. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:37:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: The Wainrights and McGarrigles on Fresh Air NPR (NJC) On the schedule for Friday 4/30 here on WHYY Philadelphia FRESH AIR with Guest Host Ken Tucker 3-4PM A rebroadcast of an in-studio concert with Kate and Anna McGarrigle, Loudon Wainright, Rufus Wainwright and more. They all sing and play on the album "The McGarrigle Hour." (repeated at 7 p.m.) For tapes and transcripts of Fresh Air, call Toll-Free 1-(877)-21-FRESH. back to my insanity... Brian === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 00:12:46 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Colorado (NJC) > . I > want them to believe, too, that we are "stardust" and "golden", oh, John, but they need to know this. We ALL do so we can get to that 'garden'. We are what we believe. if we allow ourselves to become cynical, things will just get worse. The world IS as we create it to be. It IS as we THINK!!!! I am so glad to read you teach your children they are stardust and golden. they are two more lights in the world. > even > if we are clearly no nearer "the garden". > > John. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:42:55 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Hello-HA! DJRD > Just one great song off of a bonafide masterpiece... And one that's much more interesting and musically diverse than Hejira in my not so humble opinion. I thought David Lahm's comments on Hejira were interesting. I always thought that musically it was rather 'safe' compared to the bolder departure she made on HOSL. It's interesting that a lot of people on the list who say the words are secondary to them in comparison to the overall sound of the music seem to point to Hejira as their favorite. To me this says, 'Come on, you guys! Don't tell me you don't listen to the words and that they aren't as important to you as the music!' Mark in Seattle (Will he *ever* shut up with his Hejira heresy?) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:16:40 -0600 From: Brett Code Subject: Guns - Freedom - Taber - High School (NJC) Joni was born in Fort McLeod - about 60 miles from Taber - and went to Art College in Calgary - about 150 miles from Taber. I live in Calgary. One of our secretaries told me yesterday, after hearing about the copycat killing in Taber, that she had told her 4 children, only the day before, that such a thing wouldn't happen in Alberta. It did. She was wrong. And now she fears for her children. She's free. She enjoys all the constitutional freedom she wants. She would rather live without fear, I think. Guns create fear, not freedom. Taber is a town of 7000 - the center of an agricultural community. The 14-year old, who killed one and injured another, had access to a gun, because his father is a farmer. Everyone knows that farmers need guns, because, when they're "out on the range", "critters come at 'em, ever' which way". And because, if they don't kill gophers, gophers dig holes, in which their horses trip. A horse might break a leg, so "we gotta be able ta kill them critters - varmints, ever' one, I tell ya. Hyuk, hyuk, hyuk." Now, the 17-year old son of a minister is dead, because the killer had a fight with one of his teachers. He pointed the gun at the teacher first. Somehow, she persuaded him not to shoot but to leave the school. On his way out of the school, after the fight, he shot two 17-year olds who were late for class. A fine disciplinarian and a just punishment. I've now come over to the other side. I think everyone should have a gun. The teacher should have had one, should have been able to conceal it, and should have had special training in how to use it. Then the only dead person would be the kid with his dad's gun. And think of how many gophers would be killed if every kid had a gun. Boy, there'd be almost no gopher holes for all them purdy horses to trip in. Anybody out there know how I get hold of the NRA so I can send them a big check? Is two months' salary sufficient as an initial donation? Brett ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:12:34 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Great Children's Songs--very little Joni content One of my all time favorite children's song is "Thanks A Lot". I've only heard Raffi play it and have no idea whether he wrote it as well. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:31:43 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: Great Children's Songs-(NJC) Oh Alan, there are so, so many great songs for kids!!! Anything by Joe Scruggs is GREAT!!!!!! Peter, Paul and Mary's album, "Peter, Paul and Mommy" has great songs on it, (especially "Boa Constrictor!) I used to sing that song to my kids all the time when they were little. The "In Harmony" albums, 1&2 have great songs on them as well. And of course, the NUMBER ONE CHILDREN"S SONG OF ALL TIME: Eddiecoochiecatchiecommatoesenearatoesenarasammacommawahky Brown!!!!! (If you come to the New England Labor Day weekend Jonifest, I'll sing it for you!) ;-) Hugs, Ashara http:www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:15:49 -0600 From: Brett Code Subject: RE: Guns - Freedom - Taber - High School (NJC) Joni was born in Fort McLeod - about 60 miles from Taber - and went to Art College in Calgary - about 150 miles from Taber. I live in Calgary. One of our secretaries told me yesterday, after hearing about the copycat killing in Taber, that she had told her 4 children, only the day before, that such a thing wouldn't happen in Alberta. It did. She was wrong. And now she fears for her children. She's free. She enjoys all the constitutional freedom she wants. She would rather live without fear, I think. Guns create fear, not freedom. Taber is a town of 7000 - the center of an agricultural community. The 14-year old, who killed one and injured another, had access to a gun, because his father is a farmer. Everyone knows that farmers need guns, because, when they're "out on the range", "critters come at 'em, ever' which way". And because, if they don't kill gophers, gophers dig holes, in which their horses trip. A horse might break a leg, so "we gotta be able ta kill them critters - varmints, ever' one, I tell ya. Hyuk, hyuk, hyuk." Now, the 17-year old son of a minister is dead, because the killer had a fight with one of his teachers. He pointed the gun at the teacher first. Somehow, she persuaded him not to shoot but to leave the school. On his way out of the school, after the fight, he shot two 17-year olds who were late for class. A fine disciplinarian and a just punishment. I've now come over to the other side. I think everyone should have a gun. The teacher should have had one, should have been able to conceal it, and should have had special training in how to use it. Then the only dead person would be the kid with his dad's gun. And think of how many gophers would be killed if every kid had a gun. Boy, there'd be almost no gopher holes for all them purdy horses to trip in. Anybody out there know how I get hold of the NRA so I can send them a big check? Is two months' salary sufficient as an initial donation? Brett ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #191 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?