From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #190 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, April 29 1999 Volume 04 : Number 190 TapeTree #8 is ready to roll. To sign up go to: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- NJC the celtic hiccup ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Cranberries (was Joni's aura) (NJC) [David Wright ] Hello-HA! [Bounced Message ] recording info for Tape Trees [Patrick Mead ] NJC: Cranberries [Vince Lavieri ] OK.. I'm a little confused.. [TreyCozy@aol.com] RE: Which of us is Joni?? ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: OK.. I'm a little confused..NJC [catman ] Re: Colorado (NJC) [Kate Tarasenko ] Re: Hitler Article at cybereditions.com NJC ["Winfried Hühn" ] NJC:Canadian School Killing [catman ] Re: (NJC) Colorado/High School [David Wright ] Re: Cranberries (was Joni's aura) (NJC) [RMuRocks@aol.com] Joni on "Jeopardy!" [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Jazz Takes On Joni Mitchell NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: NJC- Colorado/High School [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Joni gets a degree! (JC) [evian ] Joni on Jeopardy [picard3@webtv.net (Sherelle Smith)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:21:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: NJC the celtic hiccup Don Rowe wrote: >> People may not have picked up on this, but I'll bet >> money that Delores O'Reardon (sp?) is the Dr. >> Frankenstein to the Alanis Creature. Ever wonder >> where Alanis got all that shrieky warbling from? Ken reasoned: >I always figured that went back a bit further to Sinead >O'Conner I want to say this loud and clear: I HATE the way the Cranberries woman hiccups ALL the time. Is this her idea of being celtic or what? I think the mother of them all is Liz Fraser. She is uncontestably a goddess, of course. Then Sinead took over -- often tastefully. And then came Dolores, which in Spanish means PAINS. So befitting! WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:24:13 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Cranberries (was Joni's aura) (NJC) Don Rowe wrote: > > Ever wonder where Alanis got all that shrieky warbling from? Ever > listened to a Cranberries record...? Ken Slarty wrote: > > I always figured that went back a bit further to Sinead O'Conner I agree that Dolores O'Riordan's singing seems heavily influenced by Sinead's. I think the Cranberries are also descendants of the Sundays and the Cocteau Twins. I kind of like the Cranberries, when I'm in the mood. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:31:53 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Cranberries (was Joni's aura) (NJC) In a message dated 4/28/99 5:26:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, David.Wright@oberlin.edu writes: > Don Rowe wrote: > > > > Ever wonder where Alanis got all that shrieky warbling from? Ever > > listened to a Cranberries record...? > Then David Wright wrote: I kind of like the Cranberries, when I'm in the mood. And I say: I think the song Linger is quite listenable and very catchy...that's probably why so many people bought the album, whatever it's called. Gina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:44:31 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Cranberries (was Joni's aura) (NJC) At 05:31 PM 4/28/99 -0400, you wrote: >I think the song Linger is quite listenable and very catchy...that's probably >why so many people bought the album, whatever it's called. >Gina I liked 'Linger' also. And I especially liked the video, which was cleverly modeled on Godard's 'Alphaville'. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:47:41 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: Smackwater Jack (NJC) I never really knew whom Carole was referring to in Smackwater Jack. I remember an old video of one of her concerts in which she said after singing the song, "And you know who I'm talking about!" It looked like she was singing about a real case. Now the tone of the song suggests that she's actually on Jack's side -- she seems to be making too much fun of the townspeople and the posse. And then Carole lived so many years with her family out there in the middle of nowhere that maybe she owns a gun or two. WallyK - -----Original Message----- De: Helen M. Adcock Para: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com ; joni@smoe.org Fecha: Martes 27 de Abril de 1999 05:18 Asunto: Re: Playing with guns (NJC) > >Carole King has also mentioned guns in two of her songs: >Smackwater Jack - "Now, Smackwater Jack, he bought a shot gun. Cos he was >in the mood for a little confrontation". And Goat Annie - "Then she leveled >her 12-guage with a blast she sent 'em packin', Go, Goat Annie." > >Not that I want to start a thread about song lyrics (as opposed to titles) >mentioning guns, ('cos we'll be here forever!), but I thought it was >interesting since Carole's two songs are so different in meaning (IMO). >Smackwater Jack is a warning to stay away from people with guns, and Goat >Annie is praise for a woman defending her land with a gun - kind of >interesting, I thought! > >Helen > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:52:57 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Hello-HA! From: "Eric Taylor" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:35:48 -0400 I'm up all night in my studio and don't have to be up early on the ranch. First I need to say that I was blown away by all the touching email when I stormed off the list last week. What a great group! I'll have to uns.ubscribe more often.... Between the kind words & missing reading the digest with my first cup of coffee every morning I resubscribed yesterday. Looking back I think what really set me off that day was the school shootings in CO. All I can say is God help America! Re: copying Tape Trees to CD. I would be very happy to copy Tape Tree CDs but don't have the capability to copy DAT to CD. Can anyone email me WAV files that I can copy to CD and share? And if CaTGirl will transfer DAT to CD I volunteer to make CD copies for the list. I went out and bought the PWWAM video and a stereo VCR last week just to prove to myself that Joni sounds better than ever. And, ya know what? She does! Also seriously listened to DJRD the other day and must say I think it is Joni's finest. No wonder Charles Mingus wanted her to compose his final album! Joco is superb!! But Paprika Plains is in a league with Ludwig.... E.T. NP: #9 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:14:29 -0700 From: Patrick Mead Subject: recording info for Tape Trees At 08:31:46 AM 4/28/99 -0400, Dan Haas wrote: >I'd like to offer some advice to anyone who is interested on how to make >quality duplications of tapes. Dan: With respect to all of your thoughtful advice: Tthe JMDL trees have all been organized so that branch tapes are all one generation from source, and leaf tapes are one generation from branch. Our branch administrator has excellent Nakamichi equipment and I believe most branches are using equipment with minimal wow and flutter specs and that they likely know how to keep heads clean and degaussed and recording levels correct. We also know that DAT's have no generational loss or tape hiss, which is one of the reason we have DAT branches. Of course the same is true of CD-R and I among several others would like to see CD-R branches for future trees due to the dominance compact discs enjoy in the marketplace of playback devices used by the leaves. Although the branches record the analog tapes on good equipment per your suggested guidelines, I am sure many of the tapes are played back on bad car decks, cheap portables, and $100 discount store components. Many are presumably "eaten," warped in the sunshine, or inadvertently erased. Analog cassettes are fading fast as a serious high fidelity medium. We also have discussed bootlegging at length in this discussion group, and most of the members share your sentiments that it is better not to reward or encourage profit-motivated bootlegging (which I guess is a redundant phrase). Joni's modest commercial appeal has meant that only a handful of bootleg releases have appeared over the decades; she has been far less of a target for fast buck artists than the chart-topping flavor-of-the-month rock bands. best wishes, /Pat ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:25:45 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC: Cranberries I rather like the Cranberries myself. Maybe not in concentrated heavy doses... but some good tunes there, and some good messages. (the Rev) Vince David Wright wrote: > Don Rowe wrote: > > > I kind of like the Cranberries, when I'm in the mood. > > --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:30:28 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: OK.. I'm a little confused.. Hello all.. Forgive me for being (a little) green, but I am new to the list and a little confused by all of this stuff going on?! Larry Klein, Carly Simon, and ACTUALLY Joni.. on the list? It's a joke right? Just checking.. Trey np - "because i told you so" Jonatha Brooke ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:35:33 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Which of us is Joni?? >My number one suspect is Wally Kairuz! Oh NO! To think it has taken my analyst ten years to convince me that I'm not Zsa Zsa Gabor and now this!!! WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:41:23 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: OK.. I'm a little confused..NJC No Joke! I just love Joni and reading about her. We are good friends. But she hasn't taken me up on my offer of helping her write a tune! love, comma, Carly TreyCozy@aol.com wrote: > Hello all.. > > Forgive me for being (a little) green, but I am new to the list and a little > confused by all of this stuff going on?! Larry Klein, Carly Simon, and > ACTUALLY Joni.. on the list? It's a joke right? > > Just checking.. > > Trey > > np - "because i told you so" Jonatha Brooke - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:45:30 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC: Re: VHS Hi-Fi Hi Dan, Welcome to the JMDL. I enjoyed your post about tape trees but I must disagree with one point: While it's true that VHS Hi-Fi sounds slightly better than the traditional audio "compact cassette" it's not because the tape is wider. (If the tape width was the reason, the non-VHS Hi-Fi would also sound good. Right?) VHS Hi-Fi sounds good because there's a bunch of unused bandwidth on the tape. The stereo Hi-Fi tracks modulate a high frequency carrier (FM), then are written on the tape. - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:04:16 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: Re: Colorado (NJC) Helen wrote: "...Do you blame the parents of a 45-year-old serial killer, and make them "pay" for his crimes, because he lived with them for a third of his life? Sure, the first years are the formative years, and our upbringing does play a part in how we conduct ourselves as adults, but there comes a point when the individual must take responsibility for their own actions. I'm getting really tired of something like this happening, and everyone rushing to lay blame..." There is no doubt that the ones who pulled the trigger (and any accomplices) are personally responsible. And I agree that there has been some knee-jerk rush to persecute (and prosecute) the parents in the face of being unable to punish the dead killers. However, I DO believe that parents are responsible for what goes on under their own roof, regardless of the age of their children! The move to prosecute the parents may not be a perfect solution, but it's a move in the right direction in order to sound the alarm to parents to get more involved in their children's lives, especially for those kids who've demonstrated criminal or anti-social behavior. Helen also wrote: "...I'd love to think we can get to a point where we all respect each other and live in peace, and where guns are not even necessary, let alone available, but I think it's a pipe-dream - and it certainly won't happen in our lifetimes, if at all..." and Debra wrote: <<>> to which Michael responded: "Not even close. Even if each house had the 2/3 vote required for passage, such an amendment will NEVER even come to the floor of the House of Representatives because the (currently Republican) leadership maintains 99% control over what gets a chance at a vote." I just hate the fatalistic and hopeless tone of posts like these. Stricter gun controls and outright bans are NOT impossible solutions, IN THE LONG RUN. One route to banning guns is for the individual states to adopt such laws and, indeed, this has already begun on the municipal level in several states. It's only a "pipe dream" if you refuse to participate in the action for change! Nothing is going to change overnight, and none of the proposed solutions is perfect, whether they touch upon gun control (Repeal 2A!), or moderating the WWW, or scrutinizing the messages we get from the entertainment media. But we have to start somewhere, and perhaps we have to start everywhere. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!^) Kate in CO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:06:07 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: Hitler Article at cybereditions.com NJC Suzanne Simpson wrote: > Check out the article on Hitler at > http://www.cybereditions.com/aldaily. That's a great site. The article > is thought provoking; Hmmm, I don't know. I read the article, and I'm not too excited about it. Like so many pieces within this genre, it's a mixture of commonplace knowledge, trivial analogies and semantic tricks as a disguise for the complete absence of logical clarity -- a lot of hot air, where there should have been analysis. I'm really too tired to deal with it at length, but take a look at this paragraph: > In other words, the parallels between Milosevic and Hitler, between >Kosovo and Auschwitz, are bad history. Indeed, they are not a great >deal more sophisticated than the fantasies of the Trenchcoat Mafia. > >Sad teenage losers dream about being Hitler. In the same pathetic way, >sad middle-aged politicians dream about being Churchill. (Especially >erstwhile draft-dodgers and ex-CND members.) And who can be surprised, >when the middle-aged politicians don so fraudulently the mantle of >Churchill, if teenage rebels respond by donning the trenchcoat of >Hitler? Preposterous though the latter may look in their black coats >and combat boots, they are no more so >than Messrs Clinton and Blair sound when they attempt to strike >Churchillian or Rooseveltian chords. All that Bill Clinton has in >common with Winston Churchill is a fondness for cigars. >From a formal point of view, the latter sentence is quite funny, and it certainly is Clinton's own fault that "cigar connections" are being drawn! But the material content of these lines is absolutely nonsensical. No matter what and how you think about Clinton (whom I respect as a politician) and Blair (whom I respect both as a person and as a politican), there simply is no valid connection. The Littleton massacre is no response to Blair's and Clinton's rhethorics, however questionable one might find these to be. Our politicians aren't playing "Roosevelt and Churchill" either. They are trying to deal with a complex crisis, which is circling around a fascist regime in former Yugoslavia and a collapsing superpower on the territory of the former Soviet Union. The reason why we're not sending ground troops into Kosovo is because we don't want Russia to explode in the same way Yugoslavia has been exploding. It's simply a typical element of political propaganda ("spin") to make the adversary look as evil and dangerous as possible, and that's why we're seeing these Hitler/Milosevic analogies. They're not entirely ill-founded either IMO. The message "appeasement doesn't work with reckless criminals" is right on the target, and part of the problem is that it wasn't adhered to in Bosnia in the first place, where the Serbian ethnic-cleansing strategy was rewarded by cowardly-acting European countries (remember Srebrenica?) and where the Serbian leadership and their bloodhounds might have gotten the idea that they would get away with it everywhere and anytime, which now has to be bombed out of their minds again. Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:08:57 -0700 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: Re: Which of us is Joni?? Kakki! You got some great instincts. Let's take a trip to Canada and find out if it's true? later gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: Brett Code To: Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 8:05 AM Subject: RE: Which of us is Joni?? > Kakki's got it again! There's at least one more reference to "evian" in Joni-dom. In one of her interviews on one of the tape trees (sorry, I can't be more specific) she was trashing corporations or big business in some manner and said something about "evian" being the word "naïve" spelled backwards. Evian's had us all this time; we're all so naïve. > > Brett > > ---------- > From: Kakki[SMTP:kakkib@att.net] > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 9:37 PM > To: paul tyrer; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Which of us is Joni?? > > Paul wonders: > > >And I was wondering (you can see where this is going can't you) whether any > of us has ever >suspected any of us of ACTUALLY BEING JONI in disguise... > > O.K. my money is on Evian. Perfect cover claiming to be from Joni's > hometoon, always bright, delightful and amusing like Joni, always posts late > like the night owl Joni and "his" handle "Evian" - well remember that > Kilauren was once a model on the Evian bottle label. Er, uh, oh.. maybe > Evian is Kilauren!! ;-D > > Kakki > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:53:15 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJC:Canadian School Killing According to the news here, a teenager went to WR Myers School in Alberta with a rifle and opened fire. One boy is dead and another is in surgery at Lethbridge Regional Hospital. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:05:05 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: (NJC) Colorado/High School Jenaya wrote: > > I'm angry that this was allowed to happen (and it was > > literally allowed to happen), and I'm pissed that everyone wants to > > point fingers, and I'm pissed that it's "my" generation that has to > > suffer the wake-up call. Mark wrote: [snip] > I sometimes get the feeling that some of us are speaking as if those > younger members aren't reading as well. Hi, Mark. Thanks for mentioning this. I think the issue certainly extends beyond the list as well. For example, all of the media coverage I have read was obviously written by adults for other adults (resulting, among other things, in some amusing explanations of what "Goth" is), as if no one in the younger generation reads the newspapers or has a stake in the way the media covers events like this. I would think it does make young people feel like they're "under the microscope," or being talked about as if they weren't in the room. I also think that it is not interesting or helpful to people of the younger generation (not to me, at least) to read, as I did in an editorial column in the paper today, about how the nuns in the writer's parochial school 50 years ago would have solved the problem (i.e., through good old-fashioned discipline and humiliation), or how children used to call their elders "ma'am" and "sir" and eat their dessert with the dessert fork and salad with the salad fork, and other such variations on how much better it was back then. Many of the "solutions" being suggested to the problems raised by this seem rather adult-centric. The newspaper here ran an infographic offering tips on how schools can respond to "warning signs"; their tip for students was essentially, "if a classmate behaves like such-and-such, tell an adult." And as far as communication goes, parents should keep in mind that they can't make a unilateral decision to open lines of communication with their children. It's easy to say that parents should make themselves aware of what's going on in their children's lives, but I also think their privacy should be respected. If kids don't feel like talking to their parents, or other adults -- as I often didn't in high school (though I didn't love my parents any less, or feel less loved by them) -- they won't. I loved your post, Jenaya! Take care, - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:18:30 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Cranberries (was Joni's aura) (NJC) In a message dated 4/28/99 4:36:08 PM Central Daylight Time, Gina writes: << I think the song Linger is quite listenable and very catchy...that's probably why so many people bought the album, whatever it's called. >> It's "Everybody Else Is Doing It, So Why Can't We", RS lists it as one of "essential" records of the 90's, it IS a nice little pop record, which is always a wecome thing. Bob NP: XTC "Set Myself on Fire" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:28:58 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Joni on "Jeopardy!" There was a Joni question in the "Cities in Song" category on this popular game show tonight. To wit: "Joni Mitchell wrote that she felt 'unfettered and alive' as a man in this city. Too easy, right? Said Alex Trabeck: "And the answer is: The Daily Double!" Well, I made the daily double part up, but the contestant got it right. Just thought I'd jump on the chance to pass along the JC. - -Julius np: Court and Spark. Never underestimate the power of suggestion. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:04:37 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Jazz Takes On Joni Mitchell NJC In a message dated 4/28/1999 12:49:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: << finally got my copy of David Lahm's "Jazz Takes On Joni Mitchell". I accidentally ordered it from Music Boulevard instead of CDNOW (sorry Wally it won't happen again). I ordered it 3 weeks ago and it just arrived yesterday. It was well worth the wait!!! >> I ordered my CD a few days ago. I can't wait to hear it either! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:30:03 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC- Colorado/High School In a message dated 4/28/1999 1:56:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, netgirl@ctos.com writes: << Jenaya -- Thanks for posting your incredibly articulate and insightful thoughts on the Columbine killings, as well as your own recent experiences in high school. Many other folks have also written stunningly sensible posts -- thanks for sharing them. -- Kate in CO >> I thought your writing was supurb!!! Catgirl (((((((Jenaya)))))))) :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:04:03 -0600 From: evian Subject: Joni gets a degree! (JC) Hi, Apparently, it was in the Saskatoon paper this week that the U of S will be giving Joni an honourary degree next year. I am unsure if it will be during fall or spring convocation. Anyway, the paper said that the University is trying to work out a date with Joni that will fit both her and the school's schedules. I will let y'all know more when I hear it. Evian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 02:43:38 -0400 (EDT) From: picard3@webtv.net (Sherelle Smith) Subject: Joni on Jeopardy I was watching Jeopardy this evening when the answer came up (and I paraphrase): On Joni Mitchell's Court and Spark album, what city does she refer to....(I forget).... Free Man? Nobody got the answer!! I'm screaming, "PARIS! PARIS!" Ahh, C'est L'avie! Sherelle ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #190 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?