From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #184 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, April 27 1999 Volume 04 : Number 184 TapeTree #8 is ready to roll. To sign up go to: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- colorado, and my kids NJC [Clancyhart@aol.com] Bonnie and Joni [Mary Pitassi ] Re: colorado, and kids NJC [luvart@snet.net] (NJC) guns [Patrick Mead ] RE: Guns (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Re[2]: (NJC) Colorado -- parents criminally liable? ["Kakki" ] Re: (NJC) Colorado -- parents criminally liable? [David Wright ] NJC--Cockburn/Wilcox/Armatrading ["Alan Larson" ] Re: Tape Tree on CD [CaTGirl627@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:29:23 EDT From: Clancyhart@aol.com Subject: colorado, and my kids NJC i have been reading all of these colorado posts with such a heaviness in my heart. i think the need for gun control is so obvious--i try hard not to let my children see how cynical i have become about our government, because i want them to grow up feeling like they really can make a difference. but part of me just wants to pack up my kids and my dogs and live at the top of a mountain somewhere. i have actually had something akin to panic attacks lately, and have gone to pick my children up early from school...i heard someone say once that having children is like letting your heart climb right out of your chest and walk around in the world. and i feel that vulnerable, watching them move through their lives. i have thought about home schooling...i don't know. i don't want to raise my children in fear. how do we keep them safe? how do we make them aware of danger without stifling their curiosity and their joy? childlike trust and faith is a good thing--i don't want to kill it in my children. i just feel heavy tonight. and i started this whole message to say the post from marcel on monday--the one about the killers' parents being peaceniks--was too laughable to even get me riled up. i just thought it was either a very, very bad joke, or an obvious attempt to bait the liberals on the list. if you want to play little intellectual or political games, marcel, please wait for a different topic to play with. this one is just too raw, and too real. amy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:47:20 -0500 From: Mary Pitassi Subject: Bonnie and Joni gellerray writes: "joni and bonnie seem to genuinely "love" and respect one another. I have heard NO carping from either about the other. . . Remember when Bonnie won all those Grammies for Nick of Time--remember her face, her surprise and deeply felt joy? How she trembled, how sincerely she spoke and also those moments on the floor between her and her father? Unforgettable, most beautiful." Ray, I didn't watch the Grammys the year Bonnie won for "Nick of Time," unfortunately. However, what I do remember is the look of pure joy and pride on her face as she stood up to clap the year *Joni* won, twice, for "Turbulent Indigo in 1996. She seemed happy as a clam!! Although, IMO, Joni and Bonnie have different strengths as artists, I was quite impressed with Ms. Raitt when I heard her at Milwaukee's Marcus Amphitheatre in the early- to mid-90's. She's an engaging, compelling performer who certainly sang her heart out at that particular concert. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:53:51 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: colorado, and kids NJC Before the Colorado incident, I went to visit a friend of mine here in CT. We graduated from high school together. My Mom works with her Dad (he is a doctor). This friend has a little boy who will be 5 yrs old in 4 months. His Dad is a history buff on the Civil War. They let their little boy watch Civil war movies, purchase little war men(toys) for him AND bought him a cap gun. I severely bit my lip over observing all this. While sitting next to this youngster in the car he was telling me how the "rebels" fought the "yankees". He said if he were to catch a "yankee" he would have to cut his legs off so he wouldn't run away. I gave such a darting look at my friend. Her only response was "I think we are going to have a problem here". Is this how these thing start??? I just don't know what to think..... Heather (and yes ... every word of this is true.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:23:57 -0700 From: Patrick Mead Subject: (NJC) guns Whatever the limited merits of this idea may be, it's complete implementation certainly would have had no deterrent effect whatsoever on the "trenchcoat mafia:" "WASHINGTON (AP) -- Finding a rare point of agreement, the Clinton administration and the National Rifle Association both would prohibit juveniles who commit violent crimes from ever owning a gun." I don't know how many more thousands of innocent people have to be killed in this country before we wake up and see the idiocy of the legalized guns. "The answer is blowin' in the wind." /Pat mailto:pmead@pacbell.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:31:39 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Guns (NJC) to cite laurie anderson: it's not the bullet that kills you. it's the hole. [sorry, couldn't resist] wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: Brett Code Para: 'joni@smoe.org' Fecha: Lunes 26 de Abril de 1999 15:05 Asunto: RE: Guns (NJC) >Because the questions you raise are so difficult, the answer may not lie in banning guns but in banning the manufacture of bullets. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:44:56 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Re[2]: (NJC) Colorado -- parents criminally liable? Bob schrieb: > Then let's put it like this: If I'm bit by a neighbor's dog, they're > responsible for not properly containing their animal. Likewise, it would > make sense that they would be responsible for the criminal behavior of > their offspring. I agree with everything you're saying, but I still think > the net result would be an increased sense of parental responsibility. Just yesterday I was also thinking of the analogy with Dog Bite law (it's really called that). In California we have a whole section of the law books devoted to this area and attorneys who specialize in this area. Not to compare children to dogs in any way, but if we hold people responsible and can criminally charge them or sue them in Civil court for a dog bite, why don't we also apply some liability to a parent for destructive and criminal acts of their children? Well, we have started doing that in California to some extent, although that's all I know about it and cannot elaborate. Perhaps Don Sloan has better knowledge about how this is working or not working - I consider him our "youth expert" here for the years he has devoted to this area. As for the parents of Harris and Klebold, my initial kneejerk response was that, yes, prosecute them, enough is enough. But after a couple of days, I also started thinking of other possible facets of their situation. It is very possible that they were actually afraid of their children and truly did not not what to do, or were afraid if they did anything something horrible would happen (as it ultimately did). I thought of my own personal experiences with scary people and assessed how I dealt with the situation. Probably all of us have been in situations where we have no choice but to be in the presence of scary, unbalanced people such as in work situations, or with neighbors, classmates, etc. I've been there and must admit that I never reported them to anyone or confronted them. On the contrary my reaction was always to try to humor and appease them. Most likely this is not an effective solution, but I always got an instinctual feeling to not try to confront them and to just try to keep clear of them as best as was possible. There has been one instance where a co-worker had been so completely out of control for over a years time, that she was truly becoming a danger to people around her. She would come into work stoned and drunk in the morning and was starting to knock over huge shelving units in the office while screaming and sputtering at her subordinates. I ultimately reported her to the appropriate people because I felt no one should have to be subjected to this and she was transferred to another office and then quit to go onto teaching - (argh). But it it was a long time of living with an extreme situation before I felt enough courage to do something proactive about it. We need to hear tha parents' story when they are ready to tell it. Kakki NP: Both Sides Now - Pat Martino ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:26:23 -0500 From: Alan Subject: Re: Bruce Cockburn (NJC) M.Russell wrote: > I know this is a Joni list, but I just am now listening to my first > Bruce > Cockburn album and it is *wonderful* - so beautiful - as beautiful as > Joni. > I will listen to these songs again and again. I also checked out B.C. after hearing him mentioned so many times here. I have two of his albums, "Dancing in the dragon's jaws" (1979) which is really wonderful (and the first song "creation dream" always makes me think of Joni) , but then I bought "Stealing Fire" (1984) which I thought was pretty awful. I'll have to check out that earlier one. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:00:14 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: (NJC) Colorado -- parents criminally liable? I wrote: > Is punishment always synonymous with justice? Colin wrote: > Hardly ever, i would say, if ever. I meant it more like, "does our society always make punishment synonymous with justice?" - --David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:11:52 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: Priorities (NJC) Don wrote: > It wasn't a selfish decision, just an > honest one. Fact was, dual income would have become a necessity with > the addition of kids, and the attendant hopes and dreams that would > come with them. But much more important than money, of course, was > time ... time we would not have, nor would be likely to make > consistently, to provide the supporting, nuturing environment we felt > essential to successfully creating a family. > That is music to my ears, or should I say that it's very comforting. Just to know that others have made the same decision as we have, and felt that it "wasn't selfish, but an honest decision". Scott and I spent countless hours discussing this. We had a slight problem originally in that we couldn't conceive. We went for some basic tests, then learned that we'd have to go through more extensive tests. Our next step was adoption, which we had no problem with. I was adopted, and I am greatful everyday! To make a long story short. We too have decided that we can not provide the supportive and nurturing environment that is essential.in raising kids and becoming a family. > At least we went in with our > eyes open ... fully aware of the consequences of going either way ... > and decided that we just weren't parental material. I wish more > people could see themselves with this same objectivity and clarity. > > That is my wish as well! jody ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:11:12 -0700 From: "Alan Larson" Subject: NJC--Cockburn/Wilcox/Armatrading I'm in total agreement with the beauty of Bruce Cockburn's work. whenever i can afford a new cd, which isn't too often... i order another of his masterpieces.... what's great is that one cd that you first think is ca ca, later you think is masterful... some really have to grow on you... i saw him first on austin city limits in 91 or so, and his version of Rocket Launcher, diff from the cd's (Stealing Fire) was so inspirational, that i would jam to it over and over again... my two favorites right now are Trouble with Normal, and Humans... both of which weren't even very likeable to me at first the mind is a strange thing sometimes the other guy i can't get enough of us david wilcox, waiting for a new release from him.... i just ordered Nightshift Watchman, his earliest, from the 60's or early 70's, and it is a classic... love it so much someday soon is my favorite song of his not the same as judy collins cover of someday soon "if heaven is perfection, i'd get my deepest questions answered like a child tears into wrappings, to a christmas tune.." "where there's just enough of someday soon, to satisfy..." someone mentioned a 94 or so release of joan armatrading's... what's it called again? ciaou, alan@ames.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:48:45 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Tape Tree on CD In a message dated 4/26/1999 7:02:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelb@coolgold.com.au writes: << Hi All I was just curious if there is any move to burn CD's for the tape trees instead of tapes.It seems like a logical move to me considering blank CDs are cheaper than tapes and many listers must have cd burners either in their computers or as a stand alone unit. From my limited knowledge all we need one person who has the ability to convert the anolouge signal into a digital form then it's just copy,copy,copy from there. I am sure there are people on the list that can do this... Any ideas?????? Michael >> Hi Michael, We are in the process of discussing this at this very minute. It appears that there are a few members who have Cd burners, etc. The main problem is however, a tape has 45 minutes on one side hence, 90 min. tape. A Cd has 74 or 80 minutes on a CD, depending on which one you get. There would have to be alot of overhauling of everything to make it all fit perfectly. Whoever is going to take on the task has his hands full. I would love to get all of Joni trees on Cd. I will be painstakingly putting DAT onto CD, keeping in mind the difference in format. Once I get all mine done. It will then be very easy to just *run off* a CD. It is the wave of the future, so I think it will eventually happen! :) Catgirl ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #184 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?