From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #176 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, April 22 1999 Volume 04 : Number 176 Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Videos [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: NJC: Audiophile's Corner [Scott Price ] Re: Joni & Jackson Browne (i'm Not To Blame) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Videos-NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: Colorado... (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC: Colorado [dsk ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:41:11 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Videos In a message dated 4/21/1999 4:28:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, David.Wright@oberlin.edu writes: << S&L is an awesome video! I swear Joni pioneered music videos with this > one (two years before MTV existed). Well, I think music videos (even the MTV-sort, as opposed to concert documentaries) existed long before that. I saw a video for the Mamas and the Papas' "California Dreamin'." In it, they are standing in a big white room singing the song, surrounded by a lot of bathtubs. Suddenly, hippies rise up out of the bathtubs and begin to dance! (or wave their arms around a lot, anyway). This caused me to laugh for several days. --David >> I do beleive the Beatles were one of the first video bands. Even in their movies they had *music videos* Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:55:17 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: NJC: Audiophile's Corner At 09:39 PM 4/21/99 -0400, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: >This week I noticed a new detail in "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes". I never >heard the tambourine before. I guess it blended in with the steel >stringed acoustic guitars, but now, it's completely obvious. Can >everybody hear this or is it only high-end systems??? If you're talking about the CSN studio version of the song, my $79.00 Sony Discman reproduces the tambourine quite clearly. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:58:51 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Jackson Browne (i'm Not To Blame) In a message dated 4/21/1999 9:21:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark-n-travis@worldnet.att.net writes: << I posted this awhile back and I think people may have thought I was joking but I wasn't. In the song 'Lucky Girl' from DED Joni lists the type of losers she's been involved with prior to meeting Klein and one of the lines goes 'cheaters, *woman-beaters* and Huck Finn shucksters hopping parking meters..' I wonder if this is a reference to Jackson Browne and if there was ever an incident where he threatened or was violent to Joni when they were involved with one another... >> I wouldn't be surprised. Unless he went into therapy chances are he hurt women a long time befor and still does to this day. And to think I really wanted to marry him when I was young. I knew I had alot of growing up to do and had really horrible picks of men. Catgirl- NP:Carpet Crawlers-Genesis (back when they were GREAT!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:00:21 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Videos-NJC CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/21/1999 4:28:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > David.Wright@oberlin.edu writes: > > << S&L is an awesome video! I swear Joni pioneered music videos with this > > one (two years before MTV existed). > > Well, I think music videos (even the MTV-sort, as opposed to > concert documentaries) existed long before that. > I saw a video for the Mamas and the Papas' "California Dreamin'." > In it, they are standing in a big white room singing the song, surrounded > by a lot of bathtubs. Suddenly, hippies rise up out of the bathtubs and > begin to dance! (or wave their arms around a lot, anyway). This caused me > to laugh for several days. > > --David > > >> > I do beleive the Beatles were one of the first video bands. Even in their > movies they had *music videos* > Catgirl Cab Calloway and other musicians of the late 1930's made promotional music shorts to be shown in theaters between movies. They were called "soundies", and IMO are the predessessors to modern videos. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:07:07 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Colorado... (NJC) David wrote: > First, from reading the comments of other students today about the > "trench coat Mafia" and finding a lot of it very familiar from my high > school, I'd say the group of boys *were* outcasts. And it's not an > excuse, but it's also not something to be minimized. No, it is not to be minimized. Yes, there is validity in considering the factors which may have helped to provoke their rage. Not to make another kind of excuse, but there have always been children who have been the outcasts in school, usually because they were considered nerdy or lacking in some kind of arbitrary attributes that would gain them entree into the popular cliques. I think of some who I grew up with who really have had the last laugh as they blossomed in later years and were able to retire before age 40 because of their brains and talent. But they only banded together for maybe study sessions and esoteric physics projects and never in such a bizarre and destructive way. Yes, children should have the freedom to express their individuality, whether it be in their choice of clothes, hairstyles, personal beliefs, etc. Personally, I was allowed to wear make-up, hippie fashions, date and do a lot of other things at a younger age than most of my peers because my parents felt these were superficial things to fuss about when there were far more substantive issues to address at that time (the height of the 60s in California). But they also made damn sure I knew the difference between right and wrong, illegal and self-destructive behavior and common sense. They gave me a lot of rope but I always knew the party would indeed be over if I ever did something to violate their trust in me. If there had been an internet in those days and they noticed me on it every night getting involved in some bizarre and violent group or looking up recipes for bombs, or spouting hate and violence against other people and making home videos of shooting guns, they would have immediately hauled me (and probably themselves) off to the nearest psychiatrist. > Second, though I don't mean to downplay the seriousness of > neo-Nazism, I think it would be more productive to think about ways in > which our entire society, not just fringe groups, stands -- both openly > and, more often, covertly -- for hate and violence against minorities. Thinking and talking about ways without real and productive implementation of ways won't do much. And if we think of those new ways, who is going to implement them? Government? TV? Courts? Schools? Maybe a little of all those but it still begins with those who raise you from the beginning and who are first and foremost responsible for your care and nurturing. I disagree with both you and Kate that the news reports of the details are insignificant. We do have to know what is behind this, we cannot go on in a vacuum. I guarantee you that there are millions of parents all over this planet tonight who are reconsidering their approach with their children, paying attention to and loving their children a little more and also looking over their childrens' shoulders a little more to really see what they are up to and that is one of the few silver linings in this black cloud. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 02:56:29 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: NJC: Colorado Kate Tarasenko wrote: > > But if you wring your hands and give up now in feeble > acceptance, or allow yourself to be distracted by questions of violence > as glamorized by the media, or the bland neuroses of suburbia, you miss > the point, IMHO. I heard someone wonder out loud whether it wasn't a > "millennium thing." Actually I mentioned that, in addition to many other things, as adding anxiety in this society, NOT as a direct reason for the kids to act as they did. Whatever ELSE it might be, first and foremost, it's > a GUN thing. Let's take away the guns, then we can ponder the other > woes of what it means to be growing up (and trying to live) in America. I'm not sure that it's first and foremost a gun thing, but you and others (especially non-Americans) have expressed that opinion so forcefully it's certainly something to consider. I don't understand the power of the National Rifle Association, except that, for sure, there's big money involved in making and selling guns. The Constitution says we have the right to bear arms "in the absence of a well-armed militia", which the country did not have when the constitution was written. We have an army now, obviously. The NRA seems to ignore that "absence..." phrase. I don't know much about this, I admit, but am starting my research. Because I am angry now. And considering gun control IS a place to start. The question I ask, though, is what drove these kids and previous ones to such violence? not how did they find the means to carry it out? (Road-rage and adults fired from their jobs killing their boss and co-workers come to mind also; it's not just kids that now "solve" their problems so violently.) There's no simple answer to the "what's causing..." question, but the fact that there are so many guns available doesn't seem like enough of an answer to me. Debra Shea ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #176 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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