From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #173 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, April 21 1999 Volume 04 : Number 173 Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Painting with words... [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Court & Spark [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: njc colorado [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: NJC colorado [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Jazz Takes On..>A review [Dflahm@aol.com] RE: njc colorado ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: NJC colorado ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC colorado [catman ] Re: njc colorado [catman ] TTT songbook, clicking noises on Blue [Howard Wright ] Joni's fingernails [Howard Wright ] Re[2]: Court & Spark as a song cycle (Long & Twisted) ["P. Henry" ] Re[4]: Court & Spark as a song cycle (Long & Twisted) [Bob.Muller@fluorda] Painting With Words And Music [simon@icu.com] Bootleg of MSG? (Not!) [simon@icu.com] Aloha from Eric Taylor [simon@icu.com] PWWAM Taping (Full Track Listing) [simon@icu.com] the JMDL TapeTree FAQ [simon@icu.com] Re: Jazz Takes On..>A review [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Aloha from Eric Taylor ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: Bootleg of MSG? (Not!) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Aloha (NJC) ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: C&S [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re[4]: Court & Spark [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: NJC colorado ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re[2]: Court & Spark [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Blue, Redux ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re[2]: NJC colorado [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Joni & Jackson Browne (i'm Not To Blame) [simon@icu.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:01:43 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Painting with words... paul tyrer wrote: > > ...I hated PwWaM. I watched this video for the first time the night before last and I really enjoyed it very much! I smiled so many times during the 99 minutes. I loved the shots of Joni's canvases, loved seeing Pearl and WallyB, loved the close-up shots of Joni's guitar playing, and most of all, I loved Joni's singing. I think her voice is more expressive than ever before. But even if I found the video disappointing, I could never take it back to the store - that seems rather mean and I think you should do penance for your transgression! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:26:07 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Court & Spark In a message dated 4/20/1999 4:07:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dskARTS@concentric.net writes: << I never thought this was about Joni. I picture her visiting << someone in a psychiatric hospital who's medicated and << maybe even in restraints. I always thought that Trouble Child was a song for a rebellious adolescent - maybe a message for Kilauren. The song mirrors how this child feels. It doesn't give any answers. Twisted lightens the mood - makes craziness seem funny. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 04:17:48 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: njc colorado Offering a qualification to your last sentence on Colorado: I feel strongly that one of the things our pc exchange (and many other exchanges on JMDL) is "about" is communication. IMO that isn't small nor irrelevant. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:17:49 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: NJC colorado Kakki wrote: > But what really scares me is that so many people > are either totally ignorant or pathologically > self-involved to know what they need to do to parent > children. I've heard that these children in Colorado > come from a wealthy suburb of Denver - theoretically > the parents should have more resources than most to > properly nurture their children. But instead, these Coming from a wealthy suburb isn't necessarily correlated to good parenting. > children who did this in Colorado had an arsenal of > guns, ammo, and explosive devices that they brought > to the school. Where the hell did they get the money > and access to having such weapons? Because gun ownership is legal in the USA, even enshrined in the Constitution, the potential for this kind of incident is much greater in the USA than in countries where guns are forbidden or much more controlled. > The preliminary > word is that they felt like outsiders and wanted to exact > revenge on their teachers and classmates. How the > hell does it get to this point? Maybe they were treated like outsiders. Not to excuse their reaction. There must have been warning signs before this all came down, though. I think school systems have to start treating threats from students seriously. You know, like you can get arrested at the airport for joking about having a bomb in your suitcase? Well, I think it should become a reportable incident if any student in a school makes any kind of threatening statement to anyone. That person should be sent for counseling and parent-teacher conferences should be arranged. Students guilty of ostracizing others should be treated in a similar manner. Teachers just sit back and let students treat others badly without ever saying anything - feeling like they shouldn't interfere - that eventually such conflicts will get worked out - but often they never get resolved and then things like this happen. I was in tears last night, watching this on the news. I am a parent with children in a school and this tragedy is very shocking and frightening. Even though there would be many advantages to living in the USA, I do not want to raise my kids there because I feel there is too much danger in the schools and in the culture. I know other people living in Europe who feel the same. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 04:24:58 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Jazz Takes On..>A review Bullseye, Michael. The vibes lead on "...Sharon" is the "keep my cool" chorus. As I think I said before, your reaction is exactly what I foresaw as a possibility when I began seriously thinking about doing this quite a few years back. Your generous and expansive expression of it is very gratifying. Ciao for now. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 05:35:44 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: njc colorado you're right, but doesn't it sometimes feel like we're all here in this safe internet bubble, while so much shit is happening "out there"? the news mentioned the extreme right connection, and the first thing i thought was, here we are talking about hate speech, while a bunch of people are being killed, actually, really killed even as we write. i have been on this list for quite a while, and volumes wouldn't suffice to contain all that i've learned from the contribution of every member. but the news often catches you by surprise and it makes you feel like an 18th century salonniere. wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: Dflahm@aol.com Para: wallykai@interserver.com.ar CC: joni@smoe.org Fecha: Miércoles 21 de Abril de 1999 02:23 Asunto: Re: njc colorado >Offering a qualification to your last sentence on Colorado: I feel strongly >that one of the things our pc exchange (and many other exchanges on JMDL) is >"about" is communication. IMO that isn't small nor irrelevant. LAHM > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:31:38 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC colorado Marian wrote: > Coming from a wealthy suburb isn't necessarily correlated to good parenting. No, it certainly isn't and I did not mean to imply that. That's why I used the word "theoretically". > Maybe they were treated like outsiders. Not to excuse their reaction. > There must have been warning signs before this all came down, though. I > think school systems have to start treating threats from students seriously. I just heard an update and they were treated like outsiders. They were in a gang and threatened the other students, with a particular focus on threatening to kill minorites and atheletes. The most stupefying fact is that all the teachers knew about this for a long time but said "we thought they were joking." Local law enforement is claiming to never having heard about this gang until today and never hearing of any problem students at the school. Sounds like a beyond the pale example of looking the other way one too many times on the part of all the adults concerned. Kakki Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:22:38 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC colorado I am sure you are right in the reasons you give. However, I think one of the main reasons is that guns are so freely avavilable. As for worse things happening-well that is not far from my mind with Yugoslavia being so close to my doorstep. I think there is a very good chance that we are all going to have to kiss our arses good bye. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:22:30 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: njc colorado It is all olver the news here too. Along with the fact that a bomb went off in Brixton, London-it has a large black population. The bomb was planted by Combat 18-a racist thug org. Many people were seriously injured, including some babies. It was a nail bomb. Wally Kairuz wrote: > i've just heard about the school shooting in colorado. how dreadful. > reportedly, the shooters were related to the skinhead movement. what's the > deal wtih these periodic school shootings in the us? i can think of no less > than five in the last four years. talk about hate. it makes our pc > discussion look so small and irrelevant in the face of such insanity. > WallyK - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:35:26 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: TTT songbook, clicking noises on Blue From: CaTGirl627@aol.com >Does anybody know if a songbook >came out for TTT? I called around but I don't think this has happened. The last I heard, the TTT songbook was due out in the shop on April 23rd, so not long to wait! Having said that, it has been delayed many many times already. I'm hoping that it really will be out soon! It will be in pretty much the same format as the last few songbooks - music arranged for vocal line and piano, with guitar chords above. The right tunings are included - only Man From Mars and Here's to You are arranged for standard tuning. The book will also (I hope) have some technique tips, giving a little info on picking style etc for the songs. >I was listening to Blue on my CD player in the car. When *Last time I >saw Richard* came on a noticed some clicking noise in the piano intro. Boy, >was I mad. I mean I spend more money on this Cd then the original and yet it >had noise on it?!?!? Well, when I got home I listened to it again on >my sterio..it was still there. I then pulled out my other CD, and it was still >there. Then I pulled out my Jap. import, and guess what?.. it was still >there. Apparently the original master tapes had some backround noise on >them. I'm pretty sure these clicking noises are Joni's nails hitting the piano keys. I've noticed this sound on a couple of the Blue songs before, and on some other albums as well I think. So it will be on all the Blue CDs - HDCD, Gold or whatever. Howard ******************************************************* Howard.Wright@ed.ac.uk Well it's a cold bowl of chilli When love lets you down Neil Young ******************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:51:51 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: Joni's fingernails From: CarltonCT@aol.com >Anyway, had a question for all the guitarist's in the group. What are >your fingernails like? I keep mine very short, but noticed Joni's are >long, as are most women's. Are the ones on her left hand shorter so she >can press down on the frets? Does she leave the ones on right hand >longer so she can pluck the strings ? To answer the last two questions: yes and yes! The left hand nails (or perhaps I should say fretting-hand nails) have to be reasonably short, otherwise fretting chords becomes awkward. But the right-hand (plucking hand) nails have to be pretty long to get an authentic Joni sound. The times I have seen close-up shots of Joni's right hand, her nails look pretty damn long! This is something I've realised with time ... I've been playing Joni stuff on the guitar for a long time, but it's only in the last 3 years or so that I realised that having decent length nails makes quite a big difference to the sound of the guitar. The sound you get from nail-on-string is quite a bit stronger and richer than the sound of flesh-on-string. The percussive "clicks" and slaps Joni throws in also work better with long nails. I would urge all Joni-guitarists to grow their nails a little! Howard ******************************************************* Howard.Wright@ed.ac.uk Well it's a cold bowl of chilli When love lets you down Neil Young ******************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:31:31 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re[2]: Court & Spark as a song cycle (Long & Twisted) Bob said: >Hoping this discussion isn't ending but only beginning,> not that I necessarily want to interrupt this C&S-Hejira connection... (as we venture deeper and deeper) but, btw, keying off marcel's thought of C&S as a 'cap', am I the only one who thinks that perhaps PP belongs on HOSL??? (maybe? probably?) just curious... pat NP: Just Like This Train http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:35:51 -0500 From: James Leahy Subject: Painting Sound Quality When PwWaM was shown on the CBC last November, the same problem with the sound was evident: Joni's voice was practically inaudible on certain songs (Amelia being the most aggravating example). I, too, was less than pleased with this concert. I've heard better live versions of most of these songs in other venues. While Joni certainly was more relaxed than I've ever seen her, perhaps this relaxation diminished the intensity of her singing. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:11:00 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[4]: Court & Spark as a song cycle (Long & Twisted) Catgirl quotes me: ***In a message dated 4/20/1999 9:49:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << And while I know the Geffen connection here, I think we can shortchange ourself by saying "OK, I know what this song's about, on to the next one". I admit it's the weakest link in the song cycle, though..I'd love to hear what other folks think about the placement of Free Man on the record...*** And responds with: **NoWAY!!!! I love that song. It is one of the few I play off of the album.. It is so much fun!** To which I respond: Cat, my statement was in reference to FMIP as the weakest link in the SONG CYCLE concept of C&S, I didn't mean to infer that there's anything weak about the song itself...my comments were about the song SEQUENCING... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:39:04 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Painting With Words And Music Don Rowe recently commented ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >Having reviewed the recent discussions of PWWAM, there are just a couple >of things I'd like to point out. First of all, I've played my copy >three or four times, and find the sound wanting. Hi-Fi VHS is pretty >darned good, as tape goes, so I don't think this is a format issue. But >this begs my first question ... are we talking about the DVD issue as >well? I'll stay out of that corner, since I'm still in 'wait and see' >mode on the whole DVD marketing blitz. > >So that being said, what I do know is that all VCRs are not created equal >... and this is even more true when you start talking about audio >playback. >Only at the highest end do you get audio playback that even >approaches the >quality of the video. So it is quite likely that many are >actually NOT >HEARING the entire audio track on their tapes. And if you're listening >on just your TV speakers ... well I'm no audiophile, but what are you >>expecting? >__________________________________________________________________________ Don is absolutely! correct here. VHS Hi-Fi (or Beta) is an excellent Audio format producing recordings that are certainly better than a non-dolby cassette recording. in fact, the audio-quality approaches the level of DAT recordings. However the quality of *your* playback does depend on the quality of the VCR being used as well as the rest of your stereo system. as far as PWWAM is concerned ... both the Digital and Analog soundtracks on the (12") LaserDisc are 1st rate with a wide soundstage, imaging that projects the musicians *into* the room, and a rich supple sound thats pleasant and natural sounding. i find no fault with the audio quality of the VHS Hi-Fi edition. i have no observations or opinions on the DVD edition. i'm waiting on further developements before purchasing a DVD player. BTW: the credits state, Music Mixed by Joni Mitchell. i assume SHE is satisfied with the results. for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- * Remember, there's a difference between kneeling down and bending over -- FZ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:41:16 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Bootleg of MSG? (Not!) re: 'Painting With Words And Music' Don Rowe also commented ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >It seems far more attention was paid to video editing, smoothing and >enhancement -- which so far, no one's complained about! The audio >shortcomings, at least the ones I hear, seem a product of engineering, >mixing and mastering decisions -- as opposed to any deteriorating of >Joni's voice or her band's playing. > >I say this for a couple of reasons. First off, the recent concert tour. >If Joni's lost her voice, she sure got it back in a hell of a hurry. >Some can, and will carp about the 30+ years of smoking, but if it's really >done that much damage, you sure couldn't tell at the United Center in >Chicago -- or the recent bootleg of Madison Square Garden that Bob Muller >was so kind as to copy for me. Voices don't just "come back" like that >-- unlike video sound, which can be manipulated as easily as the text of >this rambling missive of mine. >Thanks for putting up with it! > >Don Rowe >__________________________________________________________________________ Don, i really don't hear any audio shortcomings. perhaps some just don't care for the 'concert' sound of the Parker Fly/VG-8 combination Joni uses these days. but i want to make another point. Bootleg, as used today, is a term that refers to an Illegally produced LP or CD sold *for profit*. an LP or CD $old with all Profit$ going to the Bootlegger$. no royalties are paid to the performer, songwriter or publisher. you have a cassette copy of a DAT 'Concert' recording circulated freely and *not* sold for personal profit. here on the JMDL we believe in sharing this music on a non-profit basis, thru privates trades as well as the JMDL TapeTreeS. the only cost involved is your cost for blanks 'n' postage. after returning home from the MSG concert last november i immediately began dubbing off copies of the recording I'd made. 10-copies were mailed out on tuesday evening to various friends and list members. additional copies were sent later in the week. the tape seems to have circulated widely since then. i like that. i hope everyone likes the music. Bob Muller writes ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >Don mentions: > >>or the recent bootleg of Madison Square Garden that Bob Muller was >>so kind as to copy for me. > >Only passing on the kindness of the 'Branch' that provided it to me ... >I will add that Don made and sent me a great J-card for the tape with a >color photo & everything. I'm assuming this show will be a part of TT#8? >It's significant as it contains a live version of DJRD ... > >Bob >__________________________________________________________________________ No this show isn't included on TapeTree #8. However, you *won't* be disappointed. full details will be posted later tonight or sometime tomorrow (4-22-98). for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- * Remember, if you don't stand for something ... you'll go for anything. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:42:59 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Aloha from Eric Taylor Eric Taylor >__________________________________________________________________________ >Aloha means many things: hello, goodbye, love ... I use it now to say >goodbye. The JMDL has meant a lot to me my first year online. I've met >many wonderful people and have had fun reading and writing posts. I've >also learned a great deal about Joni, her fans, and netiquette. I feel >that I've said all I can say on the subject and lately think my passion >has caused too many flaps. The last thing I want to do is turn off newbies >with my blunt opinionation. Some days I anguish over things that I've >posted (and today is one of those days). I don't know what causes me to >get so fired up over subjects like Joni's "lost" voice or political >correctness. Whatever it is I need to avoid it for a while. > >I will miss you guys & gals! & when Joni releases her next CD you will >definately be hearing from me! > >Aloha, E.T. >__________________________________________________________________________ hey Eric, don't be driven away by the rude few. please stay. you're as much a part of what goes on here as anyone else. for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- PS: two letters from children. DEAR GOD, thank-you for the baby brother, but what i asked you for was a puppy. (from a 7-yr.old) DEAR GOD, i'm doing the best i can! (from a 6-yr.old) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:42:31 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: PWWAM Taping (Full Track Listing) Kakki writes ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >Re: Painting With Words And Music > >What you see on the video is not what happened in real time. The video >contains snips all over the place from both nights of the taping, pieced >in an order that rarely coincides with the sequence in which it actually >took place. Maybe the editing was not superior. Joni herself re-edited >the tape after being displeased with the way it was originally edited. >I've heard she did wonders with it compared to its original incarnation. >But I have not noticed too much choppiness - probably because when I view >it all I think of is the magic of it all and also because I know TV shows >are always edited and don't follow a straight, unbroken line. >__________________________________________________________________________ as is usually the case my good friend Kakki is correct here. the recent VHS/DVD/LD release 'Painting With Words And Music' was taped during two 3-4 hour sessions on two evenings last may (1998). here's the track listing for the two concerts (in chronoligical order). i'm still waiting for a reply from Eagle Rock Entertainment regarding which songs (on the Video release) are from which evening. i'll post it here when i have the information. for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- JONI MITCHELL Warner Brothers Studios (Stage 22) Burbank, Ca. may 29, 1998 1. Night Ride Home 2. The Crazy Cries Of Love 3. Love Puts On A New Face (false start) 4. Love Puts On A New Face (incomplete take) 5. Love Puts On A New Face 6. Harry's House 7. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 8. Just Like This Train 9. Black Crow 10. Amelia 11. Hejira 12. Refuge Of The Roads 13. Facelift 14. Sex Kills 15. The Magdalene Laundries 16. Moon at the Window (false start) 17. Moon at the Window 18. The Three Great Stimulants 19. Big Yellow Taxi 20. Woodstock 21. Comes Love 22. Why Do Fools Fall In Love 23. Why Do Fools Fall In Love 24. Trouble Man 25. Song For Sharon JONI MITCHELL Warner Brothers Studios (Stage 22) Burbank, Ca. may 30, 1998 1. Big Yellow Taxi 2. Comes Love 3. Why Do Fools Fall in Love 4. Why Do Fools Fall in Love 5. Trouble Man 6. Trouble Man (incomplete) 7. Trouble Man (false start) 8. Trouble Man 9. Night Ride Home (incomplete) 10. Night Ride Home 11. The Crazy Cries Of Love 12. Harry's House 13. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 14. Just Like This Train (false start) 15. Just Like This Train 16. Black Crow 17. Amelia 18. Hejira 19. Refuge Of The Roads (incomplete) 20. Refuge Of The Roads 21. Facelift 22. Sex Kills 23. The Magdalene Laundries 24. Moon At The Window 25. The Three Great Stimulants 26. Woodstock _______________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:44:29 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: the JMDL TapeTree FAQ Coming Soon! To the JMDL Community ~ TapeTree #8, for YOUR enjoyment. but first for the benefit of our new members, the TapeTree FAQ. take care, - ------- simon - ------- TapeTree 101 My thanks & apologies to Randy Schechter and David Lybrand from the Neil Young List for the text of this document. ___________________________________________________________________________ MOTIVATION A little propaganda as to the motivation for running trees ... First and foremost it is to share with others quality Joni Mitchell music that others have been lucky enough to obtain. Trees also serve the purpose of helping new tape collectors to get their collections going. People who are new to tape collecting (or to Joni Mitchell's music) are welcome and encouraged to sign up for the tape trees. Another motivation for running trees is to try to discourage people from feeling the need to partake of the large commerical bootleg market out there. Commercial bootleg producers are largely seen to be disrespectful of an artist's rights by cashing in on the artist's music without any consideration for the artist. ___________________________________________________________________________ The TREE SEED The first step in the Tree process is finding the seed tape. A seed tape is the tape that will ultimately be used to make everyone's copy. These days recording equipment has gotten so small that almost every show gets taped one way or another. So it's important to seek out a tape worthy to seed the tree. The qualities that are important for a seed tape is that the sound quality be very good to excellent - or that the tape be of a critical event - regardless of quality. The sound quality for tapes degrades with each generation as hiss is introduced in the copying process (This is only true for analog tapes - DAT tapes do not suffer from that kind of degradation). So if we start off with a poor sounding seed tape, the leaf tapes (see below) will be unlistenable. Basically, the standards one uses to decide if a seed tape is "tree worthy" are subjective. They might therefore be lower if the seed is from an older show, or a show where no other copy exists - especially if the particular show includes a "rarity" of some kind. ___________________________________________________________________________ BRANCHES and LEAVES Once the seed is in hand, the next step is to select the branch leaders. The branch leaders are the folks who volunteer to spin 3 or 4 (up to 10!) copies of the show for the "Leaves", as in this inverted tree structure: Seed Tape | +----------+------------+----------+----------+ | | | | | Branch Branch Branch Branch Branch | | | | | | | +---------+----------+ | | | Leaf Leaf Leaf ___________________________________________________________________________ BRANCH LEADER SELECTION It would be nice if a tree only required the tree administator to make branch copies and the branch leaders make the leaf copies. However in practice there's more to it, since the tree administrator has to select the branch leaders. The criteria for branch leader selection is most heavily dependent on the quality of the dubbing equipment. In the best of worlds, all branch leaders would have two top of the line single decks (as opposed to dubbing decks) with 3 heads in the tape transports. This would ensure the best copies for everyone. In practice this is not likely, since most of us are not wealthy. Thus the tree administrator tries to ensure that the branch leaders have at least fairly good recording equipment. Another factor for branch leader selection that sometimes is used is to consider the track record of the branch volunteer in previous trees/trades. Ideally, again, we choose people who take the responsibility of being a branch leader seriously over those who have repeatedly caused delays. There are two ways the a tree gets going: The first is to find the seed, spin the branch tapes, open up the tree to everyone for sign-up, and THEN select the branch leaders from the general sign-up population. Another method is to have a separate call for branch leader volunteers BEFORE the tree is opened up for leaf sign-up. This makes the administration a bit easier, and in some cases gives the branch leaders a little breathing room because they can get their copies before the full tree structure gets posted. ___________________________________________________________________________ DISTRIBUTING BRANCH TAPES Once the branch leaders are chosen, the tree administator makes arrangements to send the branch tapes to the branch leaders. This can be accomplished by either arranging a tape trade for the branch tapes, sending blanks plus return postage, or in some cases sending cash ONLY for the price of the blank tapes and postage. The practice of sending "double blanks" for TreeTapes is not allowed! If you are asked to 'PAY' in any way for the music - please blow the whistle on the culprit. You should be willing to make your fellow Joni fans a copy of the show for just the blanks it would take to make the copy, plus return postage. Not everyone agrees with this practice but it will true for all Trees "sanctioned" by the Joni list. _________________________________________________________________________ GATHERING LEAVES Now that the branch leaders have their tapes, the next step is to open the tree for general sign-up. Trees are run in a spirit of international cooperation, so it may be necessary to have branches in Canada, Europe, Australia and elsewhere. The branch leaders from each nation take care of the leaves from their particular regions, where possible, to simplify mailing and currency transactions (where necessary). However sometimes there will be a fan from another nation on a branch. The tree administrator should get the okay from the branch leader before assigning such leaves to them, though. The tree is generally open for sign-up for 2-4 weeks. After the sign-up is closed, the tree structure is designed and then posted to the list. ___________________________________________________________________________ The BRANCH - LEAF Connection Note: Leaves are responsible for contacting their branch leader to make arrangements for obtaining their tapes! If you, the leaf, have something to trade for your tape(s) then by all means set up a trade. If you have nothing to trade, just send blanks and return postage. After all, one of the motives for running trees is to help beginners get started. Note that it's not cool to trade for blanks just to save yourself some trouble. If you've got trade material, take the effort to make a trade with the branch leader - after all, that branch leader's got a lot more work to do than you do, so help to make him or her happy (so that they will do it again and again and keep the trees going!) Branch leaders and leaves should arrange recording criteria (i.e. Dolby) amongst themselves. Sometimes the tree administrator will arrange to have certain branches that are "Dolby only" or "No-Dolby only". But generally the Branch leader gets a Dolby-B tape unless special arrangements are made. ___________________________________________________________________________ DISTRIBUTING LEAF TAPES If you have set up a trade with your branch leader, this part is easy. Just mail your trade tape to the branch leader and then they will mail you the Tree tape. If you are trading for blanks, send the blank tapes in a padded envelope (suitable for sending your tape back to you) and enough postage to cover the cost of mailing the tape back to you. That's generally about $1.00-$1.25, for a single tape (in the US). Please include your name, address, and email address with any blank tape you send, along with a note specifying what tree the blank tape is for. Since tree administrators and branch leaders have several trees/trades going on at once, this is very important! ___________________________________________________________________________ PET PEEVES * Branch leaders who don't take their responsibilities seriously. Don't volunteer to be a branch leader if you're not going to have the time to make the copies you VOLUNTEERED for. * Leaves that disappear. Please don't sign up for the tree if you're not serious about wanting a copy. Sure, legitimate reasons arise that can cause you to be unable to fulfill your committments. If this is the case, you should contact the involved parties to alert them. * Lack of feedback from leaves. If you have trouble arranging to get your tapes from your branch leader, or if you think your copy sounds like crap, please inform the tree administrator. On the other hand, please make a good faith effort to resolve your difficulties with your branch leader. * Lack of Return Postage when trading blanks. Lots of folks forget this! ___________________________________________________________________________ CAVEATS * If you know you are going to be away in the next few weeks after tree sign-up, (e.g., for Spring Break, vacation, etc.) please let your branch leader (or your leaves, if YOU are a branch leader) know. If necessary, let the tree administrator know. Inevitably some people just up and disappear after they sign up for a tree. * Important! Leaves are responsible for contacting their branch leader to arrange to get their tapes! ___________________________________________________________________________ End of FAQ. One Final Point Leaves, Please Note Re: Blanks 'n Postage Although it may be easier for YOU to send your Branch a money order to cover the *costs* of your copies, it is *not* necessarily easiest for your Branch. Remember this means the Branch has to buy cassettes, mailer, address a package, and take it to the post office. All this is in addition dubbing up to 5-Sets of Tapes. The fairest method is for YOU to purchase your own cassettes. Enclose your cassettes in a padded envelope. This envelope should be *self-addressed* *with* postage. This self-addressed, padded envelope w/Your cassettes can then be placed in a slighly larger envelope and mailed off to your Branch, who can now just drop your package in a mailbox once your copies are dubbed. Clean and Simple. In the end though, work it out with your BranchLeader. There are some really nice folks here on the JMDL and they will be happy to work with you and ensure that you receive your copies as quickly as possible. That's about all for now folks. I DO hope that everyone enjoys this group of recordings. I'm sure you will. There's some truly wonderful music included this time. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:44:20 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Jazz Takes On..>A review Michael adjuticates: >> While I do not consider myself a "music critic" or "writer" by any stretch of the imagination, I wanted to submit a review of this record because of my heartfelt feelings for the music.>> Michael, thanks for the detailed review...my copy's either still on backorder or on it's way to me. And wouldn't it be nice if ALL reviews were written by folks with heartfelt feelings for the music. Remember, "Professional" means their paid, "Amateur" (Root "Amor") means it's done out of love. I'd rather read an amateur record review anyday!! Bob, my heart reaching out to those in Denver... NP: Guided by Voices, "striped white jets" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:29:29 -0400 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: Aloha from Eric Taylor Would hate to see you go Eric. Oh won't you sta-a-a-a-ay, just a little bit lo-o-o-o-nger..... Do I sound like Jackson Browne? I knew I'd get Joni content somewhere! Jerry np: Gold Blue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:06:00 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Bootleg of MSG? (Not!) Dear Simion ... So sorry. I guess my age is showing, as I used the term "bootleg" to refer loosely to "any unauthorized recording" ... it was never my intention to imply that you, or anyone else on the jmdl would ever consider profiteering on joni material of any kind. So would something like "shareware" be a little more PC? ;-) Don Rowe _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:10:25 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: Aloha (NJC) Eric Taylor wrote: > I don't know what causes me to get so fired up > over subjects like Joni's "lost" voice or political correctness. >Whatever it is I need to avoid it for a while. > I will miss you guys & gals! & when Joni releases her next CD you will > definately be hearing from me! > Aloha, >E.T. My suggestion: attach a piece of paper to the bottom of your PC screen containing the following questions: "Might my writing cause misunderstandings?" "Am I overreacting?" "Might I be hurting someone?" (with regards to the JMDL language police: Is my spelling and grammar correct? :-) and read your post with these questions in mind before you send it away. I suppose all of us have their "impulsive moments" when reading and reacting to incoming eMails, but as long as the message hasn't left my computer, no one will know. I am not in favor of waiting until the next morning or the like. Much of the internet's attraction is its spontaneity, which would be hurt by taking such precautions. Winfried, always happy to delete stupid stuff -- especially his own ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:04:53 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: C&S Evian pondered: <> Me too bro, and that's why I'm yakkin' it up now! :~) <<(I refuse to call him "the Artist"... just simply annoys the hell outta me to do so)>> Funny you bring that up, my son & I were going to baseball practice last night and 'My Computer' by that guy was playing, and my son asked me "Dad, what's he gonna be next...The Artist formerly known as the artist formerly known as Prince"? I said "Whatever, but I'll still call him Prince!" :~) <> Yes it is, and our lady of duality counters the catchy tune with one of her most poignant lyrics, "He makes friends easy, he's not like me..." Bob NP: AC/DC, "Shake A Leg" (need to put that C&S back in...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:30:33 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[4]: Court & Spark Mark makes his Mark with: < Could the title 'Court and Spark' be translated to 'Love and Madness'?>> Absolutely Mark, but then if she had called it that, or translated it FOR us, we wouldn't have all this fun figuring it out, would we? :~) We have to personalize it and figure it out for ourselves...let's all click our heels three times & say "There's no one like Joni..." :~D And it's funny how the album is so pretty in places and so fun in places and so "get-up-and-dance-rockin'" in places yet taken as a whole is a very serious work about some REALLY HEAVY issues, a lot like WTRF (but I'll table that discussion for now). And Kakki, I love that you're a "word nerd", me too...and looking at the words "Court and Spark", they both conjure up some of the same things - what do sparks start? Fires, as in flames, as in old flames, hunka hunka burnin' love, etc...also how the "courting" experience sets off the same fires. "We were newly lovers then, we were "fire" in the stiff blue-haired house rules"... Bob NP: People's Parties ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:36:51 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: NJC colorado The way this incident is discussed in America has me shaking my head in disbelief. This will probably result in a flame war, but I simply have to speak up on this. There is peer pressure at schools all over the world. There is violence at schools all over the world. In a lot of Western countries, parents are more concerned about their jobs than their children's upbringing. We get the same TV pictures and watch the same movies in our movie theatres. Nearly all countries have problems with teenage suicides. These are all serious problems and certainly need to be tackled. But why is the US the only country where these teenage blodbaths occur? There is a clear and obvious answer to this: It is the gun culture being an inherent element of your society. You must ban guns in order to stop this. The easy availability of guns means that every existential crisis (not only among adolescents) has the potential of turning into a deadly tragedy. Winfried in Germany, where the Police are allowed to have guns and licensed hunters/sportsmen are allowed to have guns and where everybody else who is caught posessing a gun is heavily fined, if not sent to jail. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:42:15 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Court & Spark Marian says: <<>> This almost holds true, except for the line "Where is the lion in you to defy *HIM* when you're this weak and this spacey". I think if it was a troubled adolescent, the sterilized room becomes a child's bedroom etc, all the images work but it would be *THEM* and not *HIM*. Sounds like I'm splitting hairs but I think it's significant... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:02:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Blue, Redux This is my fifth incarnation of Blue. While not as enthusiastic as Kakki (no one is now that Marsha is gone :), I'll agree with Wally B. that is is excellent and well worth buying. The note deliveries of both Joni's voice and the instruments are a revelation. And the clarity of her lyrics are superior to any other version I've listened to. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:55:15 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: NJC colorado Marian said: <> In a really scary case of synchronicity, yesterday my wife, a high school teacher, was in the Principal's office regarding a threat a student had made to her - because there was no violence (yet) there's not much they can do (or will do...because the schools can be so political, the administrators who are cowards won't be tough as they don't want to piss off the parents). Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:58:35 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Joni & Jackson Browne (i'm Not To Blame) CaTGirl627@aol.com wonders ... >__________________________________________________________________ >Do you actually think Joni would ever tour with Jackson Browne or >visa-versa? I don't know if there is a feud going on but I kinda >thought there was. > >Catgirl ... the story hit the news from coast to coast ... >__________________________________________________________________ No, this ain't gonna happen. as for the (so-called) feud? ... there is no feud between Joni Mitchell and Jackson Browne. the feud is between Jackson Browne and the Truth. the feud is between Jackson Browne's public persona and private behavior. Joni has *never* commented publically about Jackson Browne and his connection (as inspiration) to the song "Not To Blame". however make no mistake about this, the song *is* Jackson. his own whiny, pathetic public complaints and denial only confirm that *he himself* sees the connection. check out the following from the Jackson Browne FAQ. __________________________________________________________ FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) for Jackson Browne Fans Version 4.7.5 V4.0 January 1, 1998 (V1.0 July 18, 1995) Website URL: __________________________________________________________ 2.6 THE TOP 10 MOST ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT JACKSON BROWNE 10. Did Jackson Browne really beat up Darryl Hannah? (Also known as "the question that won't go away".) Answer: NO. Both Jackson and Darryl have denied those old tabloid reports at one time or another. The fact is that Jackson telephoned the police that night. The details of that infamous night will never be known by anyone except for the two parties involved. Jackson is a very private individual and we should all respect his desire for privacy. Whatever really happened that night is none of our business. To those that are stuck for an answer when someone raises the question, I usually respond with a statement about not believing what you read in the tabloids and being amazed how otherwise intelligent people can believe the kind of trash they read there. This whole issue was raised again with respect to questions about Joni Mitchell's song "Not To Blame" from her 1994 album TURBULENT INDIGO, which not only accused Jackson of beating up Darryl Hannah but implies that he drove his first wife to suicide. Jackson's public response was that Joni hasn't been very well and has lots of problems. The fact that she wrote such a song should make that fairly obvious. ___________________________________________________________________________ well, isn't that special? 1. this wasn't just some tabloid story. as CaTGirl points out, "the story hit the news from coast-to-coast". i remember reports on 'Entertainment Tonight' as well as stories in the NY Times, the Boston Globe and other newspapers. 2. the only time i saw/heard Darryl Hannah asked about the incident(s), her answer was a very terse "No Comment!" 3. Jackson Brown and JFK Jr. almost came to blows once over his treatment of Darryl Hannah. this was also widely reported. if Jackson Browne really wants to deny all this, so be it. but that's no reason for his insulting, condescending comments about Joni Mitchell. a joint Tour? not likely. for now ~ take care, - -------- simon - -------- * Remember, if you don't stand for something ... you'll go for anything ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #173 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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