From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #159 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, April 14 1999 Volume 04 : Number 159 Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- CD plugs (NJC) [Thomas Ross ] Re: My First Post...... [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: PC Talk replies....(NJC; long) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Joni's sexiest songs (Comes Love) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Joni's sexiest song [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: joni's butt ["P. Henry" ] Re: Another Newcomer (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Therapy? [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Comes Love [Jerry Notaro ] Re: joni's butt [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Therapy? [TerryM2442@aol.com] therapy [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: My First Post...... [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re[2]: PC Talk replies.... (NJC; long) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re[2]: joni's butt [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re[2]: Therapy? NJC [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] NJC - Random Thoughts on PC [Don Sloan ] Re: Blue Motel Room [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Sexy Songs [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni songs...NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: joni's butt [CaTGirl627@aol.com] wilma flinstone, rip [Bill Dollinger ] Concert Extortion (NJC) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: joni's sexiest song?? [dsk ] Re: Concert Extortion (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Therapy? NJC [Ashara@aol.com] JB, BR, BH and SC starting 8/26 (NJC) ["Eric G. Postel" ] Re: Concert Extortion (NJC) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Therapy? [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Therapy? NJC [dsk ] Re: Concert Extortion (NJC) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Concert Extortion (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Concert Extortion (NJC) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Jazz Takes On Joni Mitchell [dsk ] Re[2]: Concert Extortion [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: NJC - Random Thoughts on PC ["Kakki" ] Re: The Danger of Impromptu Plugs - Lesson One - NJC [FredNow@aol.com] Jumping on the extortion bandwagon [LOREN CARTER ] Re: Re[2]: Therapy? NJC [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: wilma flinstone, rip [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Joni songs...NJC [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Least/Most PC, Otis and Marlena into the tenth world, into Dreamland(JC) [Ginamu@ao] Re: Tori Amos cover of Case of You (Joni related) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: PC Talk replies....(NJC; long) [catman Subject: CD plugs (NJC) The other day when I plugged Bryan and David's releases - how could I have forgotten Tom's CD? Tom was one of the very first list members and has basically kept in touch throughout. Pick up his CD at: http://www.barncard.com/Pages/cormack-rossBUY.html Sorry Tom! Please forgive my oversight. Les Not at all. The horse ain't dead, so you can't beat it, even if it's an old plug. Anyway I think Peter Holmstedt mentioned the review of *Horse of Stone* in Mojo, so enough already. btw http://www.barncard.com/cormack-ross.html will also get you there, and there are song excerpts to hear. mm-Hmmm! TR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:08:21 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: My First Post...... In a message dated 4/13/99 10:19:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LEWISP2@Prodigy.net writes: > Well, that is my two cents worth. Simple words from a simple man. I am sure > I am not saying anything new or profound. Take care all and > peace..................Lewis > Hi Lewis! I don't think Joni appeals to simple people! Emotions she touches in me are sometimes so profound that I lack the words to describe eloquently how they make me feel. Perhaps this is what happens for you as well.Your thoughts, I think, are shared by most, if not all Joni fans. Thanks for sharing them and keep them coming. Take care, Gina (I've viewed PWWAM twice now and I'm still in blissful mode. I've made another giant leap of appreciation for Joni and it feels soooooo good!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:37:48 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: PC Talk replies....(NJC; long) In a message dated 4/14/99 2:16:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, David.Wright@oberlin.edu writes: > Perhaps if PC were applied in its shallowest, most superficial > form; but I don't believe it is. I believe in trying to educate people > about language's -- even words' -- ability to empower or to deny power, to > include or marginalize, to oppress or to liberate; is that bad? I don't > leave the deeper level completely out of it, as you imply. They may or may > not agree with me, but another thing is, I don't raise these issues (like > about racism in The Jungle Line) because I want to censor or punish people > who speak insensitively; I try to educate people, and myself, so that the > next time it happens, they'll at least think about it and it hopefully > won't reinforce and internalize once again the subliminal effect. > David, I need to reply to this. I won't do it in a composed fashion because I don't have the time, and besides, I think in this case I need to get right to the skinny, as they say. I've attended countless racism, sexism, this ism that ism workshops over the years (I'm a social worker) and what ends up happening with PC language is that people are AFRAID to speak up! In order for people to confront their own racist, sexists or whatever views in a consciousness raising type group, they absolutely need the freedom to engage in free dialog without fear of having someone jump their throat! It is ONLY when people are allowed to confront these issues and discuss them openly that they are able then to try to change them! We need the freedom to discuss the prejudices, biases, fears we have about others honestly or nothing will change. I believe this can be done using the language (however politically incorrect it may and however much it makes people wince) that people feel comfortable with, as long as it's not openly hostile and hateful. If I happen to call someone black instead of African/American for example, and they are insulted, that is their problem, as my tone, my whole being should convey that I am not a hateful person, nor racist. They can correct me if they wish, but please don't punish me. I think this type of fear is counter-productive to any kind of change we may want to see in our social attitudes. Thank you. Kids are yelling for breakfast now! Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:46:14 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's sexiest songs (Comes Love) Catgirl writes: Hi Deb, "Comes Love" isn't on any of Joni's albums (yet), but she sang it on her tour last year and it was GREAT!!! I would think when Joni puts out a torch song cd, "Comes Love" will be on it. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:03:11 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Joni's sexiest song The Only Joy In Town Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:18:59 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: joni's butt ok, it's time for one of those ooollllld dusty memories..: having a rather parochial upbringing, whatever adolescent yearnings on a boy-girl level I might have felt toward Joni when I was 17 and she 22/23, were pretty much kept in check, not only by the difference in our ages but mostly by the fact that she was married when I met her. (also, keep in mind that, at the time I was totally inexperienced in such matters) I was so naive, in fact, I dare say, I kept such thoughts even from my self... (even though she was quite charming and attractive as well as always good-naturedly flirtatious) that is until one night as she ended her last set... she was wearing the type of dress that was popular in 1967, ie: very short minidress, no collar, long 'bell' sleeves, (similar to the one she wears in that picture of her with leonard cohen at newport) and this one was quite translucent. as many of you know, Joni is pretty short and she was walking ahead of me a couple steps and as we were exiting the main room, which was dark, into the lit back hallway and, instinctively and innocently watching her backside, as one does when following someone through a dark room. then, suddenly, the bright light from the hallway came shining directly through as well as indirectly reflecting up from the floor and under that translucent, and at this point, for all practical purposes, transparent minidress and my young eyes were abruptly presented with the full impact of Joni's braless silhouette and also, due to the underside reflection, my first real-time view of that lower part of the female anatomy! I can still recall that sight as clear as if it were today and all I can say is: yup! it's a nice one! *G* pat NP: Down To You http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:49:32 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Another Newcomer (NJC) John Low says "Hi": <> Welcome John! <> We actually did have a Nick Drake thread a long while ago...I don't have any of his stuff but have been sitting on the fence and looking at his discs every time I visit the record store. Anyway, keep those comments comin'! Bob NP: 10CC "The Second Sitting of the Last Supper" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:13:05 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Therapy? Terry asked: <> Others have answered this question already directly, but I'll just chip in my 2 cents and say that ALL of us participate in therapy, whether the therapy is playing the guitar, tennis, dancing, petting a cat on your lap, conversation with friends, etc. My opinion is that "amateur therapy" is probably much more effective than professional therapy. It reminds me of a weekend I was staying in Columbia SC with a friend's grandmother who was about 90. She had a spare room full of hat boxes. Me, being nosy like I am, asked her what was in all the hatboxes, and she of course said "Hats!" When I asked her why she had so many hats, she told me that all her life her philosophy was to buy a hat when she felt ill rather than see a doctor. The costs were about the same, she explained, and she always felt better after she bought a new pretty hat! So, she practiced "hat therapy"! I'll bet for most of us, Joni's music is therapeutic...once when I broke up with an old girlfriend I played Hejira non-stop and had a good cry... I'll also bet that we're our own best therapists (excepting extreme cases)...after all, where's the incentive for a professional therapist to "cure" us - their income stops when we're fixed! Better to keep ripping the scabs off our emotional wounds than to allow them to heal... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:35:06 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Comes Love They are playing Comes Love on WMNF by a singer called Toni Price. It's new. Anyone know anything about her? Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:40:59 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: joni's butt In a message dated 4/14/99 8:21:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, badwolff@angelfire.com writes: << as many of you know, Joni is pretty short >> Pat, Great story, but (no pun intended), I didn't think Joni looked short at all when I met her this past fall. I'm 5'8 and she was only about 1/2 inch shorter than me. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:47:06 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Therapy? In a message dated 4/14/99 9:19:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << I'll also bet that we're our own best therapists (excepting extreme cases)...after all, where's the incentive for a professional therapist to "cure" us - their income stops when we're fixed! Better to keep ripping the scabs off our emotional wounds than to allow them to heal... >> We all ARE our own therapists, even if we are IN professional therapy. Professionals don't cure anyone, we do, with their guidance. And a good therapist is thrilled to see a patient heal himself and get on with his life. However, buying a new hat or listening to Joni isn't going to make someone with a severe or even moderate psychopathology get better. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:49:44 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: therapy As a therapist I can tell you that I am very invested in helping my patients to get better. The incentives are many: one doesn't become a therapist to make huge sums of money (my patients who work in the business world make much more money than I); a therapist forms a relationship with the patient and no one likes to see someone they care about suffer; a "satisfied" patient will make referrals. It sounds as if you might have had a bad experience in therapy, and if that is true, you shouldn't judge all therapy and therapists based on one experience. Many people, myself included, feel that therapy has changed their life for the better. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:06:37 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: My First Post...... Lewis says: <> Welcome, Lewis, and a good analogy. Of course, even if you can't choose one, just thinking about the wealth they contain is an invigorating exercise... Bob NP: John Fogerty "I Ain't Never" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:13:26 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: PC Talk replies.... (NJC; long) Gina said: <> Excellent point Gina! As many times as I open my mouth and blurt out something stupid, there are just as many when I don't say something for fear of being offensive. It's gotten to where you can't compliment a female co-worker on her appearance without wondering in the back of your mind if it constitutes harrassment... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:25:42 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: joni's butt Pat wrote, "Dear Penthouse Forum": <<...at this point, for all practical purposes, transparent minidress and my young eyes were abruptly presented with the full impact of Joni's braless silhouette and also, due to the underside reflection, my first real-time view of that lower part of the female anatomy! I can still recall that sight as clear as if it were today and all I can say is: yup! it's a nice one! *G*>> Way to go Pat! I KNEW you'd get to the *GOOD* dirt eventually!! :~D Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:44:58 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Therapy? NJC Stephen responds: **As a therapist I can tell you that I am very invested in helping my patients to get better. The incentives are many: one doesn't become a therapist to make huge sums of money (my patients who work in the business world make much more money than I); a therapist forms a relationship with the patient and no one likes to see someone they care about suffer; a "satisfied" patient will make referrals. It sounds as if you might have had a bad experience in therapy, and if that is true, you shouldn't judge all therapy and therapists based on one experience. Many people, myself included, feel that therapy has changed their life for the better.** Stephen, I didn't mean to be flippant or insulting about therapists, my apologies are earnestly extended. And ironically, the one experience I had was for the most part very positive and the therapist was actually the one who terminated the sessions. Then Terry said: <> Terry, all this is true, and I did say that hat/Joni therapy was not for some cases, but by the same token, there's only a small portion of the human brain that we know about...the science has recently begun to look at not just what makes sick people sick but also WHAT MAKES WELL PEOPLE WELL! There are some strong connections between physical health, emotional health, mental health, spiritual health that the science of medicine is just now clueing in to. All I know is what I've read in general interest mags, so I'm in way over my head here - Stephen, what's your take as a professional? PS: I hate that Ashara is missing this cuz this kind of discussion is near & dear to her very big heart... Bob NP: Peter Frampton (Live): "All I Wanna Be is By Your Side" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:58:26 -0700 From: Don Sloan Subject: NJC - Random Thoughts on PC I'm enjoying the thread on "to PC or not PC".... and that, indeed, is a question that comes up in the lives of untold numbers of people, day after day. Unfortunately, it isn't just a matter of "if I say this or that, will it hurt someone's feelings?" but much more often it's "if I say this or that, will I get in trouble or be considered un-PC?" I think we have all been PCed at home, growing up - our parents help us learn what is acceptable speech. Probably it would be considered child abuse now, but in my youth, one feared not the PC police but the mum coming at you with a bar of soap to plug the mouth if something offensive or foul came out! Most of us were also PCed later, in school.... yes, by teachers, but more powerfully by peers.... of course it wasn't, "Am I being PC?" but rather, "Am I being cool?" Some people view this-or-that as dangerous hate speech - while others believe the inevitable censorship of thought and speech that results from this blanket PC approach to solve the world's ills is much more dangerous to us all. I hope that all of us that think about this issue never forget that what is PC today will be grossly un-PC tomorrow.... and that when we give someone the power to shut someone up or punish them for what they say today, the same power can be wielded against us tomorrow.... Random thoughts over morning mocha (very PC) and a good smoke (tobacco)(very un-PC). I just love this list! Don NP: Ladies of the Canyon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:48:23 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Blue Motel Room In a message dated 4/14/1999 2:12:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << Just wanted to clarify this. The key word here is LEAST favourite song. I love Blue Motel Room, but I had to pick one from the album that was my least favourite - an almost impossible choice, but I love the other songs on Hejira more than this one. Some people wimped out by saying they didn't have a "least" favourite, but I wanted to answer the "questionnaire" as completely as possible! There are actually no Joni songs that I don't like, but the question wasn't best/worst, it was most/least! Helen - not offended in the least, just wanting to make my p >> Whimping out? Why I never!!! LOL! For me, some albums, there was just no song that I favor least. I love them all. But to chose a favorite was easier then least fav. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:50:35 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Sexy Songs In a message dated 4/14/1999 2:17:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << It's on the "Painting With Words and Music" video, and I must say, I'm inclined to agree, now that I think about it. Although actually being able to SEE Joni perform it, makes a huge difference! Wow!!! Helen >> Aha, A video I have only seen once but plan on putting it on Cd! Thanks dear, I would not have known other wise and now I must rewatch the video! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:01:18 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni songs...NJC In a message dated 4/14/1999 9:22:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TerryM2442 writes: << << Why would I do a silly thing like that. Like all my rare items...barbies, classic dolls, toys, wacky packages....all gone.... boo-hoo!I do have a bunch of guitars. A quick count comes up with.....7..hey just like my cats! >> I hear ya. I did save all of my Beatles cards- wonder if those are worth anything- and one doll, a Chatty Cathy that's broken. If I'd had my way, I would have saved everything I ever had! Seven guitars! I'm envious! Terry >> Oh one is a harmony....I'm rich, I'm rich!!!! wooohooo. Small one though. I got it for my son who never did have the desire to pick it up. No one in my family is musically talented and I would consider myself mediocre. Only doing Joni, what's wrong with me!!! I did try some Carly Simon but I prefer Joni! Beatle cards are worth something so keep em! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:03:56 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: joni's butt In a message dated 4/14/1999 9:43:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: << Pat, Great story, but (no pun intended), I didn't think Joni looked short at all when I met her this past fall. I'm 5'8 and she was only about 1/2 inch shorter than me. Terry >> OH MY GOD I AM FREAKING OUT!!!!! She is the same height as me 5'7 and a half right. NO wonder why I love this women. We could wear the same clothes!!!! She has great taste too! Catgirl....acting weird! BTW, I was going to ask how tall she was. Now I know! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:23:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: wilma flinstone, rip Jean Vander Pyl, the voice of Wilma Flinstone, passed away at 79. In her honor, I am reposting the parody i did, Shades of Wilma Conquering. bill Out of the stones in cartoon paint Comes Wilma and her deep complaint Mimicking tenderness she sees In sentimental movies. A dinasaur-rider comes to town Animated lovers sway Renditions of sweeping bedrock gowns Take her breath away Out in the wind in bronto skins Chasing the ghosts of Granite and Flint Through gravel boys and extra players A big bone hopeful in her auburn hair She comes from a stone-age concrete town And she's getting sick of it Any man in the world, but she's stuck with Fred And his Yabba-Dabba-Do shit. Friends have told her not so proud Rubbles trying to sleep and yelling "not so loud" Fred in anger, each night he shouts Harder and harder to let that damn cat out. Given in the night to dark dreams From the dark things she saw She's getting so tired of the G-rated scenes Cause that's all they draw. Beauty and madness to be praised It is not easy to be brave To walk around and wear those bones To carry the weight of all those stones Wearing the same white dress, she stands Cast iron and sweet With her impossibly three-fingered hands And no shoes on her feet Out of the cave and still stoned as hell She says "A Flintstone must have everything" Shades of Wilma Conquering She says "A Flintstone must have everything" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:49:20 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Concert Extortion (NJC) Okay, I don't usually do this sort of thing, but I gotta get this off my chest. Paul Simon's coming in concert, with the mysteriously ubiquitous Mr. Dylan. So I thought, yeah why not -- Simon doesn't do that much touring and maybe he'll pull some of the "Graceland" and "Rhythm of the Saints" stuff out. The band will be good ... so place the call and -- $85.00 FOR 30TH ROW RESERVED SEATS!! I'm sorry, but this is the worst kind of extortion I've seen in quite some time. I mean, I know the Broadway stage thing didn't work out, Paul, but I'll be damned if it's coming out of my hide! Now this may not sound like a lot to those of you on the coasts, but here in the bosom of the Midwest, this is a fortune! For $85.00, I should get to sit in while Paul sings MY SONGS!! There, I feel much better now. Don Rowe _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:20:02 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: joni's sexiest song?? > From: "paul tyrer" > > But then Joni probably isn't the greatest for shagging to... Yeah, I'm thinking too much when I'm listening to Joni, even when her images are sexy. Of course, thinking can lead to feeling can lead to ... But then I'm caught again by one of her fascinating lyrics and I'm back to thinking. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:11:12 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Concert Extortion (NJC) Don exclaims: <<$85.00 FOR 30TH ROW RESERVED SEATS!! I'm sorry, but this is the worst kind of extortion I've seen in quite some time. I mean, I know the Broadway stage thing didn't work out, Paul, but I'll be damned if it's coming out of my hide!>> So if everyone feels the way you do, after he finishes his set, all he'll hear is the "Sound of Silence"... Hello Empty seats my friend, did no one have the bucks to spend, Because I don't get out to tour often, And Capeman ended up in the coffin, So my songs, like silent raindrops fell, What the hell, I still get paid despite the silence... Bob NP: Foo Fighters "February Stars" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:17:02 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: Therapy? NJC My buddy Bob writes: << PS: I hate that Ashara is missing this cuz this kind of discussion is near & dear to her very big heart...>> Actually, I'm not quite gone yet. ;-) We leave on Saturday, so I will be off-list by Friday. Yes, as you've said this "is" a subject that is near and dear to me. I have seen over and over again what I believe to be incredible healing take place through alternative means such as sound, acupuncture, energy healing, etc., and I believe that if something as simple (or profound) as buying a new hat *worked* for this woman in staying healthy, who are we to say that it *wasn't* effective *for her*? I am a firm believer that there is no *one way* to do anything. There are many valid choices to approach healing, both Eastern and Western ways of thinking, and what may work for one may not be a good approach for another. Personally, I loved the story about the woman with the hats. What a wonderful way to go! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:31:51 -0400 From: "Eric G. Postel" Subject: JB, BR, BH and SC starting 8/26 (NJC) In case anybody interested: Bruce Hornsby's newsletter say he, Jackson Browne, Bonnie Raitt and Shawn Colvin doing 20-25 dates starting 8/26. Each will do a mini set and then they are playing a "lengthy 'band set'". Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:37:11 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Concert Extortion (NJC) In a message dated 4/14/1999 12:52:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dgrowe@hotmail.com writes: << Now this may not sound like a lot to those of you on the coasts, but here in the bosom of the Midwest, this is a fortune! For $85.00, I should get to sit in while Paul sings MY SONGS!! There, I feel much better now. Don Rowe >> I agree. When the goddess herself was touring with Dylan I couldn't see spending 70.00 a pop to see her a a pin all the way up in the nose bleed section. I love her but I saw her 3 times at smaller venues and she was great. I think Dylan is OK but I would have left after she finished. I did however, get the pay-per-view and saw her in the comfy of my living room. She was great! Catgirl..... counting the 140.00 plus parking plus the 2 hour trip, SAVED! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:46:20 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: therapy/personal announcement (very NJC) This message will seem indulgent to most of you, so if you're included, please delete. Some of you have become good friends of mine, though, so I need to share a pretty major development in my life with you. SMEBD@aol.com Wrote on <<>> Well, I'm going in for my first-ever therapy session later today, and I'm very hopeful. It's something I've been hoping to do for quite some time, but recent events in my life have made it something of a necessity. My relationship with Sean, whom many of you have met, has been in transition for some time now, and as of yesterday we are no longer "romantically" involved, for lack of a less imperfect label. We still love each other very much and are hopeful about the possibilities that lie ahead, but this has admittedly been an emotional time for me. Needless to say I've been listening to a lot of _Blue_ lately (not to mention Bonnie Raitt's phenomenal live performance of "I Can't Make You Love Me"--I highly recommend it should you ever need it, which I hope you don't). Just had to throw in a little JC to justify the indulgence. Despite some lingering sadness, however, my overwhelming feeling right now is a sense of gratitude for a truly wonderful and fulfilling three and a half years and optimism about the deep friendship that lies ahead for the both of us. I and Sean thank many of you who have become our friends and guarantee you'll be hearing from both of us as time goes on. Sorry to waste even this much bandwidth. Anyone who wants a fuller story please feel free to email me at: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Thanks as always for being a wonderful group of people!! - --Michael NP: Erasure, _I Say I Say I Say_ "Run to the Sun": For the first time in my life I'm up to run away It's not a choice that I made easily It's not that I'm ashamed To face the light of day It's really just a case of self delusion And I know it ain't easy I know it ain't easy I know it ain't easy To see the truth So run to the sun Here's one for the road And may God's love go with you My tears are starting to show ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:51:15 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Therapy? >Terry asked: > > < wondering if she'd ever been in therapy. Has she ever talked about that?>> My recollection is that she tried therapy, but just for a very short time and doesn't speak about the process with much admiration. It doesn't seem like she would need it, since she's always come across as having a very solid sense of herself, and that she's always assumed people will listen to what she has to say and care about how she feels. Probably comes from being an only child of somewhat older parents. Bob writes: ALL of us participate in therapy, whether the therapy is > playing the guitar, tennis, dancing, petting a cat on your lap, conversation > with friends, etc. ... she always felt better after she > bought a new pretty hat! I guess we all try to sooth ourselves. Not to speak too dramatically or badly of your friend's grandma, but sounds like she had an addiction to me. And for how long after buying each hat, I wonder, did she feel good? The problems are still there. I'll bet for most of us, Joni's music is > therapeutic... For sure, it's been a help to me. I've always been amazed and impressed with how Joni could describe how she felt, even the fleeting subtle hard-to-pin down feelings. Coming from the don't feel, don't bother me background that I did, Joni put into words what I didn't have a clue about. As far as therapy goes, I know it can literally be a life-saver. It certainly helped me learn about and accept my feelings (and accept myself) in a way I don't think I could have ever learned without it. Family members sure weren't going to help me get healthier (how could they?), and friends, well, mostly I tried to fit them into scenarios I was playing out. Didn't usually work out well. Before therapy, feelings ruled me in a very crazy way. Now, feelings RULE, but in a good way. Better to keep ripping the scabs off > our emotional wounds than to allow them to heal... Some wounds run so deep people don't even know they're there. Therapists can help uncover them, rip the scabs off so to speak, so the wounds can heal rather than just be covered up. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:05:07 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Concert Extortion (NJC) The coming woodstock event has a price tag of $250. Jeez I remember seeing Pink Floyd, and Big Brother for $7.50. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:07:22 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Therapy? In response to your question Bob, there is no question that there is a strong connection between the mental, emotional, spiritual and physical health. Therapy doesn't just take place during the 45-50 minute session--therapy continues long after the session is over (it continues throughout life). And yes, other things, including Joni's music, etc. can be a type of therapy. No doubt, Joni's art--her music and painting--must be a form of therapy for her (or how else could they express such universal feelings/emotions/etc.?). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:20:57 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Therapy? NJC Ashara@aol.com wrote: > > I am a firm believer that there is no *one way* to do anything. There are > many valid choices to approach healing, both Eastern and Western ways of > thinking, and what may work for one may not be a good approach for another. Very true. Traditional therapy certainly doesn't work for everyone, but after my experiences I have a strong aversion to any kind of covering up. (Not that feelings always have to be expressed; in fact it's often inappropriate to do so, but keeping them to myself is a lot different than not having a clue.) And I'm very sensitive to the stigma still attached to therapy, the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" exhortation in this society, as though all problems can be solved by one's self, and if you can't solve them at least keep them hidden. Seems to me we're all in need of healing and having so many different ways available now is a very good thing. DS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:20:50 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Concert Extortion (NJC) Yes, I suppose so. I could justify (okay, rationalize) Joni with Dylan a lot easier. Joni had just put out TTT ... chances of her touring again soon, or even ever, seemed remote enough ... I'd never seen Bob Dylan, and am now glad that I can say that I have. This time, I've seen Dylan (don't need to again), Paul Simon hasn't put out anything new since right around '91. I was at the "Concert In the Park" (real good for free!) and don't think it could possibly be better than that ... and it's $35 more than Joni + Dylan. End result - -- picky, picky, picky! Of course, no sooner do I throw my little tantrum, than this interesting bit about Bruce Hornsby, Jackson Browne, Bonnie Raitt and Shawn Colvin comes in ... Hmmm ... might go $85 for THAT one! ;-) Don Rowe _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:33:30 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Concert Extortion (NJC) I have the poster by Amsel from Bette Midler's first tour. Tickets were 4.00, 4.50, and 5.00. I have my ticket stub from seeing Barbra Striesand in Funny Girl: 6.50. Guess what it would cost to see them today?!! Jerry np: Andrea Bocelli- Romanza MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > The coming woodstock event has a price tag of $250. Jeez I remember seeing > Pink Floyd, and Big Brother for $7.50. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:43:50 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Concert Extortion (NJC) Good grief. Within one hour I have about 20 responses to my little post about the $7.50 concert. Must have hit a nerve here. Actually prices that really get me are when I go to a football game and parking in a muddy dirt lot is $20. water is $3.50 and of course theres the old $5.00 hot dog (cold). let us not forget court side tix for a knick game are at $1500 a seat (per game). marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:56:05 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Jazz Takes On Joni Mitchell Wally Breese wrote: > And buy the album. Listening to JTOJM is a very unique > experience that is only enhanced with repeated plays. I recommend it. I do too. It's a dance around the room, sway to the music type of sound, with lots of surprises. The music is great and I can hear it, now that I'm not concentrating on Joni's lyrics. It's very enjoyable. DS P.S. and I feel... I feel... happy, listening to it. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:36:55 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Concert Extortion Catgirl said: <> Well Catgirl, I wasn't in the nosebleed section, but I would sum it up like this: (2) Tickets to see Joni & Bob Dylan in Atlanta...$140.00 (1) Blue Motel Room...$75.00 (2) Drinks & Dinner at Einstein's...$30.00 Meeting Joni at the Ritz Carlton, getting an autograph & photo...priceless!! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:48:33 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC - Random Thoughts on PC Don wrote: > I'm enjoying the thread on "to PC or not PC".... and that, indeed, is a > question that comes up in the lives of untold numbers of people, day > after day. Unfortunately, it isn't just a matter of "if I say this or > that, will it hurt someone's feelings?" but much more often it's "if I > say this or that, will I get in trouble or be considered un-PC?" I think everyone on both sides of this coin have made good points. Yes it is always correct to protest speech that reflects hate, bigotry, sexism and anything that a reasonable person would know is hurtful to another human being. Unfortunately, some zealous types overdo it in an almost compulsive monitoring of others. This naturally turns most people off because they sense either a hidden or blatant agenda of attempting to control others in sometimes petty or insignificant ways. It can be frustrating when certain words which have been in regular, acceptable usage for years are suddenly not "correct". I can think of some examples in my own experience. I always have called a boyfriend "my boyfriend". Somewhere in the 1980s or so this became a somehow "unacceptable" term and I was often met with sniffing, snickering reproachment when I used it. Yet the PC alternatives just didn't suit me. "My male friend" sounded too impersonal; "my lover" sounded like a little too much information for general conversation; "my companion" is imperfect - it makes me think of a pet or someone an elderly lady hires to keep them company and take care of them; "my partner" makes me think of a business arrangement and is what I usually call my boss; and the most favored PC term, "my significant other", still sounds utterly humourous and silly to me to this day. I was thrilled and relieved to hear Joni refer to Don Freed as "my boyfriend" in the KCRW interview last year. I still call myself and my friends "girls" and that also provokes more eagle-eared harrumphing. My elderly mother and her 80 year old friends still call themselves "girls", too. I think it is ultimately more "PC" to have manners and not correct someone's choice of words in social conversations when the words are obvious being used in an innocuous context. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:06:59 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: The Danger of Impromptu Plugs - Lesson One - NJC In a message dated 4/13/99 9:23:26 PM, Les wrote: >Dang.... Fred! Mr. Simon, I apologise. Fred appears on more CDs than all >the others put together, I believe. In fact, I happen to have an extra >copy - still sealed - of his CD of Beach Boys covers. First person to >contact Fred and send him 5 bucks for me will get it mailed to their door. >Fred, let me know the winner, OK? Will do. Hey, this whining thing is really paying off! Les, don't fret at all about it, no harm done whatsoever. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:23:57 -0400 From: LOREN CARTER Subject: Jumping on the extortion bandwagon Marcel said >Good grief. Within one hour I have about 20 responses to my little post about >the $7.50 concert. Must have hit a nerve here. Actually prices that really >get me are when I go to a football game and parking in a muddy dirt lot is >$20. water is $3.50 and of course theres the old $5.00 hot dog (cold). let us >not forget court side tix for a knick game are at $1500 a seat (per game). >marcel. The high cost of sports entertainment is the reason that I will never again go and watch a major league professional anything. The cost of tickets, parking, beer, sodas, popcorn, dogs, souveniers, and whatever else (I'm incredibly impulsive in my shopping habits so I have to be careful) prices those events out of my league. Now I make upwards of $80K/yr in salary (I ain't worth that but I'll continue to cash the paychecks until they realize their mistake ;-D) and I can't (or don't want to) hand out $200 for a 2-3-4 hour pro anything game. Especially here in the DC area where all of the sports team stink. I give you the Bulets (now the Basketball Wizards), Redskins (non-PC named pro football team), Capitals (local paper describes them as "choking dogs" pro hockey team), Orioles (pro baseball team up the highway in Baltimore, currently residing near the bottom of the league again) I can't see paying all that $$$ to see a bunch of highly overpaid (who am I to throw the first stone anyway), whining, spoiled, getting arraigned in court name calling, it ain't my fault, players on any of those teams. When my son gets older I'll take him to the assorted minor league teams for his baseball watching pleasure, maybe the local colleges for basketball and football, but never again will I go to a major league anything. Don't even watch on TV anymore. OK, I do watch the Redskins lose on Sundays, but there's some kind of local ordinance requiring that time in front of the TV. We ain't been to a movie theater in 2.5 years and now that the prices are up to $7-8, not much chance I'll be there either. It'll be Blockbuster for me. Should get me some of their stock. Here around DC there's lots of museums, parks, zoos, exhibitions to go to. That's where we'll be. Jeez, the Holocaust Museum is walking distance from where I work now. So maybe a long lunch is in the offing. Since it's unlikely that Ms. JM will tour around here again, I'll never get out of the house for a night out on the town. Sorry to rant and rave, but it was most cleansing to breathe the air from on top of my ivory soap box. humbly and sorry to waste your precious time, Loren.... NP....Last Train to Clarksville....The Monkees (when I started this) The Wanderer....Dion (when I finally finished) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:30:23 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: NJC - Random Thoughts on PC Kakki, with her usual precise insight, writes ... >"my significant other", still sounds utterly >humourous and silly to me to this day. Here! Here! I wonder, if this is the substitute for "spouse", or even simpler terms like "wife", "husband" or "best friend" -- how then do we talk about other people in our lives? Acquaintance = occasional other Ex-girl/boyfriend = previous other In-laws = skeptical others Boss = requiring other Strangers = other's other Friend = not-quite-as-significant other Hairdresser = informative other Joni = exceptional other Don Rowe ;-) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:33:38 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Therapy? NJC In a message dated 4/14/99 10:55:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << he science has recently begun to look at not just what makes sick people sick but also WHAT MAKES WELL PEOPLE WELL! >> Yes, that's true. But the "well" people are not the ones in pain, so it's only natural to begin with finding out the cause/treatment of those in pain before figuring out what makes "normals" tick. And as much as I appreciate seeing the strides we're making on natural remedies, spiritual growth, etc., I am also seeing a backlash too- people with "real" disorders and disease are rejecting some basic, scientifically proven treatments because they want to go natural. It will be a fine day when we can balance all of those things you mentioned. Terry, also a shrink ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:47:50 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: wilma flinstone, rip In a message dated 4/14/99 12:23:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bdolling@CapAccess.org writes: << Chasing the ghosts of Granite and Flint >> Brilliance strikes again. Thanks, Bill. Hadn't seen this one in ages. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:06:13 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni songs...NJC In a message dated 4/14/99 12:04:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CaTGirl627@aol.com writes: > Terry >> > Oh one is a harmony....I'm rich, I'm rich!!!! wooohooo. Small one though. > I > got it for my son who never did have the desire to pick it up. No one in my > > family is musically talented and I would consider myself mediocre. Only > doing Joni, what's wrong with me!!! I did try some Carly Simon but I prefer > > Joni! > Beatle cards are worth something so keep em! > Catgirl Oh, you girls and your guitars!!!! I'm so jealous!!! Teee heee. I've enjoyed your posts and I live vicariously through you on air guitar (shussssssh, don't tell anyone!!) Smiles to you Gina NP: The Boxer, Paul and Art's greatest hits ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:53:07 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Least/Most PC, Otis and Marlena into the tenth world, into Dreamland(JC) I was thinking about Otis and Marlena today. The song goes right into the tenth world (which I *love*) and then flows rather nicely into Dreamland. The three are a sort of trilogy, but within the context of this incredible concept album. I just could not pick a least favorite on DJRD, as every song is an integral part of the whole fabric of this masterful work. Gina (who is more in awe of "Joni Genius" than ever, thanks to this great list!) NP: Dreamland ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:47:50 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Tori Amos cover of Case of You (Joni related) In a message dated 4/13/99 10:24:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@interserver.com.ar writes: > yeah, isn't tori amos kind of like kate bush with fingers? > wallyk Tori Amos is really very much her own artist, in my opinion. She has influences, some of them being Joni and Kate but I think she's original and immenselly talented. A bit too heavy at times but she's young. Hopefully she'll age nicely and her ardent fans will discuss her work some years down the road as we are now discussing Joni. I'm a fan. She's a fantastic piano player. A virtuoso, from what I understand, who began serious piano at something like the age of five. Also a pretty good songwriter, in my opinion. Gina NP: The Tenth World ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:27:47 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: PC Talk replies....(NJC; long) > Freedom of religion is always a thorny issue, but is the coach's > beliefs about disabled people actually part of the doctrine of his or any > religion? Yes-hinduism and other reincarnation based faiths.bw colin > > ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #159 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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