From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #158 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, April 14 1999 Volume 04 : Number 158 Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- PC (NJC) [Bounced Message ] Tori Amos cover of Case of You [Bounced Message ] Re: Thinking Caps On?/ David Sylvian (NJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] My First Post...... ["LEWIS A PARKER" ] RE: NJC Sean Connery in Tesco ["Wally Kairuz" ] Another Newcomer [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni songs...NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: joni's sexiest song/album ["Kakki" ] Re: Sexiest Song ["Eric Taylor" ] Least/Most PC (JC) ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: Therapy? [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Joni songs...NJC [TerryM2442@aol.com] thanks everybody [Patrick Mead ] RE: Sexy Songs [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: My First Post...... [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Sexy Songs [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Fwd: Re A Couple of Things [Zapuppy@webtv.net (Rick & Penny Gibbons)] Re: Therapy? [IVPAUL42@aol.com] DVD [Michael Paz ] Blue Motel Room ["Helen M. Adcock" ] PC Talk replies....(NJC; long) [David Wright ] A Joni Moment [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:19:35 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: PC (NJC) From: "paul tyrer" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:59:08 +0100 Don wrote: Any attempt, PC or otherwise, to stop, or even gently direct, the flow of meaning that language attempts to communicate is doomed to failure. Paul replies: But this isn't true Don. PC has had a trememndous effect on the way language is used in the public sphere and in terms of what is publically acceptable. We don't talk about 'mongols' now, but people with Downs Syndrome. We don't talk about 'queers', but gay men ad lesbians (even the BBC has managed this one!). PC has been tremendously successful. Don goes on: For example, I say, "I threw another faggot on the fire." This is a completely legitimate use of the word "faggot", which means "a bundle of kindling." Now, in come the PC police and tell me that this statement is inflamatory, biggoted and/or homophobic in its connotation. You can't blame that on the words, nor can you assume me a bigot or homophobe for using the phrase. The word still has its meaning as I intended, and my statement describes, as best it can, a simple action I took because I might have been cold. That's it. The PC folks, of course, will have none of this ... and such is life. Paul goes on: But the right have a huge investment in making people believe this sort of thing. I really do think that most of these stories of alleged PC interventions are just that - stories. OK, it's true, some idiots on the left do use PC in inappropriate ways (some people have objected to the phrase 'black coffee' for reasons that have and always will pass me by). But I believe in PC as a way to encourage people to think about the words they use. In any case, whether people - left or right - believe that PC is a good thing, it is an element in language that has always existed. People always want to know what the correct thing to say is. And they'll strive to say it. love P(C) XX ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:57:21 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Tori Amos cover of Case of You From: "Hejira" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:08:00 +0100 Tori covered Case of you on a limited edtion cd single over here in England (east west 7567-85688-2 A7281cdx) Tori stuff is very hard to find as since Kate Bush has stopped making records all of her old fans seem to buy up and collect Tori bits. The cd folds out and inside Tori has written the following about Case Of You: When I think of Joni I always think of "A Case of You" wrapped in a blanket in my room that I asked the church to paint lilac, I would play this song till the candle wouldn't drip anymore. Can do a tape if you like . All the best Kevin. N.P Tori Amos A Case of You ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:11:32 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Thinking Caps On?/ David Sylvian (NJC) Hi, Well, for those of you who might have been interested in who the mystery tune man was on NPR, it was David Sylvian: Dead Bees On A Cake. Thanks to a JMDLer who wrote me backlist. Anyone else familiar with his work? I really liked what I heard. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:17:15 -0700 From: "LEWIS A PARKER" Subject: My First Post...... Dear All, I have recently subscribed to this list and am feeling brave enough now to post my first message. I have enjoyed reading the various digests as they appear in my mailbox every day. I am 43 years old and have listened to Joni ever since, well, lets put it this way a long, long time. Over the years, as my musical tastes have grown, expanded and changed, Joni has remained a constant. Her voice and her music has helped me celebrate the good and glorious times of my life and her words have consoled me in times of sickness, death and despair. People touch our lives in so many different ways and she has touched mine. Her music is beyond time and gender. They touch and tug at the very heart and soul. Her songs let me know that there is universal joy and pain in all humans as we experience this journey called life. At times, it was all that kept me going. For that, I am forever grateful to Joni Mitchell and wish her many more years of joy, peace, creativity and love. I cannot say which is my favorite song or album, as that is like trying to pick among the most beautiful of diamonds or rubies or sapphires. Well, that is my two cents worth. Simple words from a simple man. I am sure I am not saying anything new or profound. Take care all and peace..................Lewis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:15:24 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC Sean Connery in Tesco i'm glad to know we're never going to fight over trade, colin wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: catman Para: Wally Kairuz ; joni@smoe.org Fecha: Martes 13 de Abril de 1999 09:38 Asunto: Re: NJC Sean Connery in Tesco >I would have. Now his son, Jason, is another matter entirely...... > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:19:54 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Tori Amos cover of Case of You yeah, isn't tori amos kind of like kate bush with fingers? wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: Bounced Message Para: joni@smoe.org Fecha: Martes 13 de Abril de 1999 20:18 Asunto: Tori Amos cover of Case of You >From: "Hejira" >Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:08:00 +0100 Tori stuff is very hard to find as since >Kate Bush has stopped making records all of her old fans seem to buy up and >collect Tori bits. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:22:23 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: The Danger of Impromptu Plugs - Lesson One - NJC At 01:35 PM 4/13/99 , Fred Simon wrote in response to not one, but two cold shoulders from an irresponsible list owner: >And? ... AND? ... Oh, Les, you gonna make me cry. (head hung in shame...) Dang.... Fred! Mr. Simon, I apologise. Fred appears on more CDs than all the others put together, I believe. In fact, I happen to have an extra copy - still sealed - of his CD of Beach Boys covers. First person to contact Fred and send him 5 bucks for me will get it mailed to their door. Fred, let me know the winner, OK? Most if not all of his other CDs are available, as he said directly from him at . Ok, is that everyone? There's just too much talent on this list! :-) Les - off to Chicago to sweep Fred's floor and take out his garbage and mow his lawn and... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 03:26:25 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC Sean Connery in Tesco Wally Kairuz wrote: > i'm glad to know we're never going to fight over trade, colin you have nothing to worry about anyhow-I am a happily married man, you know. > wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:27:29 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Another Newcomer - --part1_86cf4235.24455711_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --part1_86cf4235.24455711_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: CaTGirl627@aol.com From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Full-name: CaTGirl627 Message-ID: <86cf4235.244556f0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:26:56 EDT Subject: Re: Another Newcomer To: johnlow40@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: CaTGirl627@aol.com In a message dated 4/13/1999 6:48:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, johnlow40@hotmail.com writes: << And, finally, I have to declare myself a Hejira man - IMHO as close to a flawless album as you can get. Thanks for all the interesting discussion which is expanding my appreciation of the music of JM. John. >> Well John I couldn't agree with you more in your entire post. We certainly are lucky that Joni developeed exactly the way she had. If she would have been born a little earlier or a little later it might have been chaotic!!! She certainly was at the right place at the right time! Indeed, Hejira is flawless. It is almost scarey how perfect the entire albu is. It is my favorite too. (Not to say the the other are not as fabulous just I like this style a tiny bit more. Catgirl....NP: Woodstock-MOA - --part1_86cf4235.24455711_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:31:54 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni songs...NJC In a message dated 4/13/1999 7:17:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: << << .I started out on an old Harmony-remember them? >> Hey Catgirl! That was my first guitar as well- got it when I was 12 and holy cow, did those strings make mincemeat of my fingers. I think my brother stole it- Terry >> Well, I hope your brother gets blisters on his fingers too....LOL! It seemed like the strings on those guitar, no matter what strings you put on it, would just kill your fingers. I will say in the defense of the ole harmony it made playing a *better* guitar easier to play since you didn't have to press like there was no tommorow! Catgirl...NP: Cactus Tree-MOA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:28:02 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: joni's sexiest song/album Paul T. wrote: >What's the point of identifying Joni's sexiest song? Except for Paprika >Plains, it'd all be over in three minutes flat! (unless you're listening to >Hejira, which may help explain its popularity...). NO, what we need is >Joni's sexiest LP My vote is for DJRD, unless one is having a night of Martinis, and then it would be Mingus, no contest ;-D Kakki NP: Goodbye Pork Pie Hat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:38:50 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Sexiest Song It's down to two.... Comes Love (eat your heart out, Billie.) Strange Boy ("We got high on travel and we got drunk on alcohol - and on love, the strongest poison & medicine of all" is one amazing line!) I'm surprised noboby picked Coyote ("He picks up my scent on his fingers while he's watching the waitresses legs.") Isn't this every straight guy's dream? :~% E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:51:26 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Least/Most PC (JC) I was singing Otis & Marlena to myself 30 feet up on a ladder today and it occurred to me, this is a pretty politically incorrect song! PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong but Joni is playing on the NY Jew / oil-rich Muslim stereotype here. And quite humorously I might add. It reminds me of a Seinfeld episode.... This made me realize that humor is the alternative to PC. The funniest Jewish/Black/Asian/Italian/etc. comedians play on racial stereotypes to show us how stupid it all really is. Another reason laughter is the best medicine. I have fun with questionnaires, filling in "human" for race, "eternal" for age, and "none of your business" for sex. Of course, if I really wanted to be PC, I would expect you to call me Scots-Irish-German-Native American. But then I realize we're all just mutts when it comes right down to it. I mean, if you subscribe to evolution, we're all Africans. And if you subscribe to creationism, we're all Semites. So what is the big deal?! Anyway, here are my choises: Least PC: Otis & Marlena Most PC: The Fiddle & The Drum E.T. NP: Two Grey Rooms (I'm starting to really love this song) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:20:31 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Therapy? In a message dated 99-04-13 19:18:41 EDT, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: >Don't ask me why, but today when I was listening to Joni in the car, I began >wondering if she'd ever been in therapy. Has she ever talked about that? > > I'm almost postive she had an interview where she discussed being in analysis. Something about her troubles or problems were too much for friends to handle. The song, "trouble child" comes directly from that experience if I'm remembering the interview correctly. (Jim L'Homadabadabadoo, can you point out the grammar error for extra points?) MG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:31:25 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni songs...NJC In a message dated 4/13/99 10:41:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CaTGirl627@aol.com writes: << I will say in the defense of the ole harmony it made playing a *better* guitar easier to play since you didn't have to press like there was no tommorow! >> Very true. I hope you kept yours, because I hear they are collectors items now. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:24:20 -0700 From: Patrick Mead Subject: thanks everybody JMDL-oids: Well last night I groveled for help to obtain piano music for Judgement Of The Moon and Stars and within hours my "in box" was overflowing with offers of help. Thanks everybody, as always I am once again touched by the generosity and kind spirits of the subscribers to this list. My friend Kakki mentioned the tape I have of Joni at the Troubadour in Hollywood recorded the week that For the Roses was released. I have traded hundreds of concert tapes but that is the only one that I personally recorded. Since the discussion of FTR is still fresh,I thought I would say something about the title song with which Joni closed that show 27 years ago. The vision is still fresh in my mind of Joni on the club's little stage, having moved throughout the evening from guitar to piano to dulcimer. For the final song she stood and you could hear a pin drop as the crowd heard the beautiful guitar work of that song for the first time. The LA audience listened mesmerized to the lyrics, which dissect the trappings of the "industry" and the tragedy of art as it yields to commerce and glamour. And then the final lines "And the moon swept down like water, like an empty spotlight" as she stepped out of the lone spotlight that had been on her throughout the song and left it shining empty as her guitar faded from the range of the microphone. The hushed audience paused a moment, hypnotized, and then awakened into a standing ovation. That "empty spotlight" closer gave me chills in 1972 and I still get them today hearing For The Roses on my poor little audience recording so many years later. I have loved following Joni on every step of her journey, but the music on Blue and For The Roses to me seems so very powerful. Just my two cents...FTR is a truly great record. best, /Pat mailto:pmead@pacbell.net CD-R, cassette & video tape trades: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:02:51 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: RE: Sexy Songs Well, even though it's not one of "Joni's songs" I think when she sings it, it is the sexiest songs I've heard. I love the way Joni sings Billie Holidays "Comes Love" ! Jimmy np: Lucinda Williams " Car wheels on a gravel road " with much thanks to Bob M. for his excellent recommendation. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:14:24 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: My First Post...... In a message dated 4/13/1999 10:19:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LEWISP2@Prodigy.net writes: << I cannot say which is my favorite song or album, as that is like trying to pick among the most beautiful of diamonds or rubies or sapphires. Well, that is my two cents worth. Simple words from a simple man. I am sure I am not saying anything new or profound. Take care all and peace..................Lewis >> Welcome Lewis, Tis true...picking a favorite Joni is VERY difficult! Glad you finally posted. Feel free to share anytime! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:41:26 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Sexy Songs In a message dated 4/14/1999 12:07:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: << Well, even though it's not one of "Joni's songs" I think when she sings it, it is the sexiest songs I've heard. I love the way Joni sings Billie Holidays "Comes Love" ! Jimmy >> You got me stumped. Without looking I do not know which album that is from . Give me a hint anyone? Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:42:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Zapuppy@webtv.net (Rick & Penny Gibbons) Subject: Fwd: Re A Couple of Things - --WebTV-Mail-1537097687-225 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Hi all, I am oh so lazy about addressing the jmdl, so as to the content of that "power Joni" tape I'll just forward my off list reply to Catgirl. Hope that's OK, Catgirl? But I think on side "A", Court and Spark followed Down To You. Both sides of the tape had to finish with a shorter song to fit without cutting anything off! And I would have loved to have put on Paprika Plains, but that song just takes up to darn much room on a tape!!!! I truly think the first several songs my friend heard set her up to be completely overwhelmed by Joni's depth, ya know? It was all about the content of the songs, meshing with my friends personality and interests, that had me choose what I did. And while I'm writing anyway, My Secret Place gets my nod as Joni's sexiest song. It's all about the breathy way she sings it, the wanting posturing, the flirting. Maybe it's more of a "woman" thing, but that song screams sweet romance, which I personally see as far sexier than anything more overstated. Later, Penny - --WebTV-Mail-1537097687-225 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhR9Wtb2pu5/wwc1fBVn4pOHAb/yEQIUUbODPax0ompCA8VYlh5+1QA2RXY= From: Zapuppy@webtv.net (Rick & Penny Gibbons) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:48:08 -0700 (PDT) To: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re A Couple of Things Message-ID: <342-37123FE8-669@postoffice-263.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Hi Catgirl! Thought I'd answer your query off list, if that's OK. I made the tape with my friend's personality, high intelligence, sensitivity, personal musical tastes (her fav is/was Neil Diamond, and listens to a lot of classical) and Christian convictions in mind. She's a lot like me, a Christian that prefers to not live under a rock nor judge others. : ) Although I have a feeling I'm a lot more "hip" musically than she, since I love blasting Prince or some funky jazz on the way to church. But then I'm only 42, while she's an older 45! shhhhh, I didn't say that! LOL So if my memory serves me well, this is what I came up with for her: Side "A" The Sire of Sorrows Passion Play Slouching Towards Bethlehem The Magdalene Laundries Not To Blame Borderline Woman of Heart and Mind Court and Spark Down To You Side "B" Harry's House/Centerpiece Hejira Refuge of the Roads Peoples Parties Same Situation A Case of You Blue Lesson In Survival Face Lift My Best to You I knew the first 4 on the A side would get to her because of the weighty spiritual content but, she said the rest moved her deeply as well. That's our Joan!!!! Enjoying your posts and enthusiasm on the list. Welcome!!! Miles of Smiles, Penny - --WebTV-Mail-1537097687-225-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:32:10 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Therapy? In a message dated 4/13/99 11:24:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MGVal@aol.com writes: << I'm almost postive she had an interview where she discussed being in analysis. Something about her troubles or problems were too much for friends to handle. The song, "trouble child" comes directly from that experience if I'm remembering the interview correctly. (Jim L'Homadabadabadoo, can you point out the grammar error for extra points?) MG >> I can if Jim cannot. ;>) Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:00:42 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: DVD Phillis wrote: "Yes! I finally got my copy Thursday on DVD. So this weekend I had to run out and buy the DVD player also! (Thanks for the tip Michael!) I had commented earlier that I felt the vocals were not mixed high enough on the PPV special." Hi Phillis- What kind of player did you get? I got a Sony with 5 disc changer, but I think we are going to return it for a single one with DTS. Proscan (which is a high end RCA) or the Pioneer, both in the $299. range before I beat the salesman to death for a discount. I got Purple Rain from Tower (on loan) to watch but company came by and I had to be sociable (yech). I'd rather blab here on the jmdl. Where are you on the Joni tape? Cheers and enjoy, Michael NP-Somehow She Knew-CPR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:08:16 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Blue Motel Room Harper Lou wrote: >Second runner up, "Blue Motel Room." I noticed some of you voted it as a >least favorite, a surprise to me. I think this song contains Joni's best >singing ever -- I even named my daughter Savannah because "Here in Savannah, >it's pourin' rain" is one of the most beautiful phrases ever sung by any >human on earth. Listen to the song again! Just wanted to clarify this. The key word here is LEAST favourite song. I love Blue Motel Room, but I had to pick one from the album that was my least favourite - an almost impossible choice, but I love the other songs on Hejira more than this one. Some people wimped out by saying they didn't have a "least" favourite, but I wanted to answer the "questionnaire" as completely as possible! There are actually no Joni songs that I don't like, but the question wasn't best/worst, it was most/least! Helen - not offended in the least, just wanting to make my point! "All Joni Mitchell songs are equal - but some are more equal than others" (with apologies to George Orwell!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 02:14:39 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: PC Talk replies....(NJC; long) Winfried wrote: > > The ultimate example has to be the public official who had to RESIGN > > HIS POST earlier this year because his correct use of the word > > "niggardly" was offensive to some... > > That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read! I read the story in the newspapers back when it happened, and it sounds to me like the above description is an oversimplification. I think there was a lot of misunderstanding at work, probably compounded by the office trying to brush off the complaints (maybe because a lot of them came from black people? hmmm...) instead of putting the matter to rest right away, and I'm sure some people did jump the gun. It's an awful shame it happened, but isn't automatically chalking it up to the "PC police" a bit simplistic? > P.C. is just another word for censorship, and it was invented by people > who claim tolerance for themselves while they deny it to others. I'm sorry, but I believe this to be quite false. Or at least, it conflicts with the history of the term that I have read. Would you amplify on this statement? Specifically who are the people you refer to? (I read, as I said in my post to Eric, that it was coined by the then-president of the National Organization of Women in 1975.) [from a second post] > ...if the advocates of Political Correctness would limit > themselves to banning/punishing dangerous hate speech, they would receive my > full support. [snip] > Another recent case is the sacking of this English football coach who... > ...said that disabled people were disabled because this was a > punishment for former sins. I am disabled myself, and nevertheless I > still believe that this person was treated wrongly. Frankly, I consider saying that about disabled people hate speech, and I consider all hate speech dangerous. Why do you not consider that statement hate speech? I'm afraid my sympathies here lie with the disabled people who read this and were hurt by it, who were reminded once more of the *many* injuries society does to them (and just because you weren't hurt by it, Winfried, doesn't mean that others weren't, or that their feelings are not valid). Freedom of religion is always a thorny issue, but is the coach's beliefs about disabled people actually part of the doctrine of his or any religion? > However, their tactics includes changing the way people behave > through altering their language, and this "reversed Orwellism" must be > strongly criticized... Perhaps if PC were applied in its shallowest, most superficial form; but I don't believe it is. I believe in trying to educate people about language's -- even words' -- ability to empower or to deny power, to include or marginalize, to oppress or to liberate; is that bad? I don't leave the deeper level completely out of it, as you imply. They may or may not agree with me, but another thing is, I don't raise these issues (like about racism in The Jungle Line) because I want to censor or punish people who speak insensitively; I try to educate people, and myself, so that the next time it happens, they'll at least think about it and it hopefully won't reinforce and internalize once again the subliminal effect. > Quite often, Political Correctness is used as a convenient and effective > means to *silence* people who hold different viewpoints. Again, can you amplify on this? How does this process occur? Quite more often, at least in my experience, it's the people who attempt to raise awareness of these issues of speech, *not* "politically incorrect" people like the English football coach, that are seen as the "people who hold different viewpoints," and scoffed at accordingly ("language blah blah? oh, that's just PC"). I say this -- not to brag or anything ;) -- from direct experience. > > The result of P.C. is that people are forced to lie instead of being > encouraged to think about their attitudes. Again, I believe that encouraging people to think about their attitudes is the *definition* of PC. Only if it is applied in the most superficial, caricatured way, which I believe it is not, would it yield the result you describe. One other thing; I get annoyed by talk of this nameless, faceless, seemingly all-powerful "PC police" or "PC gestapo," probably because a lot of people would by now consider me one of them. Some, probably all of "us" are actually people, not caricatures, who think deeply and feel strongly about these issues, as I hope my extensive posting on this wearisome subject reflects; and I can assure you that, in any case, I haven't had much success at silencing all those who disagree with me. ;) Take care, - --David P.S. Subject line reminds me of that contemporary Christian rap group DC Talk... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:15:16 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: A Joni Moment Hello Gang- I had a Joni moment today while I was picking up my computer at the repair shoppe. The hard drive decided to die. Fortunately for me they saved my data and I didn't lose months of work on my Joni charts and fotos, etc. While I was waiting for them to bring my puter out of surgery I sat down in front of one of the new "faster than any PC on earth jobs" with a flat screen (way cool, but I digress to easily) I started clicking on this and that and noticed there was an audio cd icon on the desktop. I spun that puppy and lo and behold, crickets, and Night Ride Home almost blew me outta my chair. I sat there and listened to that and then popped over to Two Grey Rooms, before the salesman asked me if I was "into Joni". Of course the king of promotion had to give him a 15 min. lecture on JMDL and jonimitchell.com, Wally and Les, and a cast of thousands. Two of the salesguys in the store where very interested and promised to check it out. I am pleased to report that my puter has recovered well and I now have a 6.5 meg HD and all my precious files back (that I will back up, I will back up, I will back up) Love Michael NP-It's All Coming Back to Me Now-CPR ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #158 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?