From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #153 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, April 10 1999 Volume 04 : Number 153 Join the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Jungle Line [dsk ] Re: The Jungle Line ["Kakki" ] electricity and troubled child [Cindy Fisher ] Re: ftr cover [dsk ] NJC list ["paul tyrer" ] Re: NP??? [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) NJC? [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: electricity and troubled child [TerryM2442@aol.com] electricity ["Gene Mock" ] Re: electricity and troubled child [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Bryan Update ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] joni's butt [Bounced Message ] Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) NJ.C? [Bounced Messa] Re: For The Roses/Hejira [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: ftr cover [dsk ] Confusion over the list options? and member's CDs... [Les Irvin ] Play Joni [michael paz ] NJC member's CDs... [RMuRocks@aol.com] More Stuff [michael paz ] Re: Play Joni [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Play Joni [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Both Sides Now (NJC) ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: For The Roses [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: NJC list ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) NJC? & Re: NJC ["P. ] Joni's Most Sexy Song [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) NJC? & Re: NJC ["Eri] "Blue" Gold CD ["Kakki" ] Re: Who was Don Juan ? New Age ? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V4 #149 [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Confusion over the list options? and member's CDs... [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Pronunciation of Hejira/FTR [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Day in the Garden - njc [AUDRE60317@aol.com] Re: Joni's Most Sexy Song [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Ordering Jazz Takes ["Kakki" ] "Political correctness" (NJC) [David Wright ] Is this Joni? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) NJC? & Re: NJC [CaTG] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 02:40:53 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: The Jungle Line MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > > Personally > I think that Jungle Line is maybe the worst song Joni > ever produced NO, NNNOOOO WAY!!! The Jungle Line is a great song. It has to be played loud though, so loud you can feel the drums, otherwise they are just annoying, I agree. And I don't ever try to do anything while it's playing except stand and listen intently. The timing of the drums and Joni's singing IS off in places, but I like that. The drums just keep on going with Joni trying to fit herself around them, sometimes not so well, so they're almost doing battle. In a very visceral way this one song gets across what is only talked about in the other songs: that we ALL have this natural passionate heartbeat pounding away all the time; how do we fit intense, sometimes childish, feelings, desires, needs, even ideals, into polite, conform-or-be-shunned society, or even into our own self-image of acceptability? What do we do to make ourselves acceptable and "polite" to ourselves? Every song on the album deals with this. I like the "ladylike-sounding songs" on the album too, but there's something really appealing to me about the imperfection and raggedness of TJL. And unlike other listers who think it's a misfit on this album, I think it's the cornerstone, the heart of it. > and is almost totally responsible for HOSL getting > panned hugely at the time of its release which sent Joni into > the recycle bin at most critics homes. This one song had that kind of power? WOW! What's your source for this claim, or are you just playing the critic now? From what I've read recently, including an interview with Joni, the critics didn't like her harsh "critiquing of society", as though she was above it all, and the lazing in the pool picture seemed to offend some. It didn't matter to me what the critics might be saying when I got HOSL. I didn't know it then, but have since learned that critics, like most people, tend to like what they're comfortable with, which is usually what they've had the most contact with, so who cares what the critics said, or say? (OK, OK, I guess they can influence sales, but in the long run I don't think they have much power.) > BUT that song was too big a departure to be taken in one gulp by the critics of the industry ... But, we all have the album now don't we? And are (heatedly?) discussing it almost 25 years after its release. Amazing! So the critics were obviously short-sighted on this one. > Let the lames begin I have my asbestos suit on > with this one. Major disagreements, yes, but I don't see or feel any flames (or lames) here. (Maybe though your asbestos suit is starting to feel a little warm?) Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:07:11 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: The Jungle Line Debra wrote: >From what I've read recently, including an interview with Joni, the critics didn't like her >harsh "critiquing of society", as though she was above it all, and the >lazing in the pool picture seemed to offend some. That is interesting - I never knew she was criticized for those reasons - how specious of them! I loved the lazy swimming pool and summer lawn imagery! I've always thought it was her most briliant album title, too. Marcel wrote: >> BUT that song was too big a departure to be taken in one gulp by the critics of the industry ... I recall that most of the album was regarded as too far out a departure for her at the time. Guess they wanted her to paint another Court and Spark. Debra: >But, we all have the album now don't we? And are (heatedly?) discussing >it almost 25 years after its release. Amazing! So the critics were >obviously short-sighted on this one. Some of the critics have missed it big time on a few of her albums. I always think of all her albums as being ahead of their time, but there are a few standouts which are *really* eons ahead of their time. I consider HOSL, DJRD and TTT in that special category. If HOSL or DJRD were released just today, I guarantee they would be up for album of the year and receive 100% critical raves. No wonder Joni gets cranky about it all - harrumph! Kakki NP: brilliant Joe Sample on Centerpiece ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:17:00 -0500 From: Cindy Fisher Subject: electricity and troubled child Hi all, I sure hope this post makes it throught, kind of a test because it's my 2nd post to the list, 1st one got bounced and lost, maybe a good thing... anyway, can't sleep and was thinking about Electricity and wanted to thank the gentlemen who have been able to explain and elucidate so well the meaning of those wonderful words. What is a copper headed Lizzy? To me the song was kinda sad and I connected with it more on a feeling level. To have someone actually describe what would happen to me on a level that could be understood was such a comfort in my teen years. I guess I realize now not everyone feels things the same and sometimes that electrical stuff gets so intense it's hard to handle and it has always been so therapeutic for me to get to listen, sing along and eventually play this and other songs, really touches deep in the soul. The line that repeats about "they're not going to fix it up too easy" is the part that is sad to me. Like the lady can't quite get it fixed and it'll be broken and it'll be really hard the technical manual being busy and all. Reminded me of "Troubled Child" another song that touches deep to my soul. I have struggled with mental illness in my family and in myself and with my clients at my work (I'm a pharmacist) and that one really hits home as well. I'm glad Joni was able to grow and evolve just like all of us and agree that the songs that are dearest to us may indeed be the ones that taught us in our youth and helped us out of personal crisis, and confusion. Gotta quit now, what a blessing to have this group to write to in the middle of the night and be able to send it with the touch of a button (I hope)! Cindy in Texas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:51:34 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: ftr cover paul tyrer wrote: > > (though I agree with someone who posted a while ago that the cover of FTR is > JM's dreariest. Dreary? Oh no, I don't agree at all. It's one of my favorite covers. It's so green and organic looking with all that natural growth and the wide flowing river. And I love the way Joni looks on it, wearing those sensual velvet clothes, and unadorned in the way women usually are -- no makeup, no skin showing but her face and music-making hands, and with such a direct, here I am, honest gaze, instead of the usual seductive or ingratiating smile that women are taught to use. I've always seen this cover as a feminist statement. In my mind, it's connected with a Carly Simon cover where Carly's in a little black teddy looking very sexy and seductive (don't know why I've always contrasted the two album covers, maybe they came out about the same time). Anyway, Carly's selling herself the way women have forever; Joni's not, and I've always had tremendous respect for that. Then there's the surprising beautiful picture on the inside. Even though looking at Joni's bare behind doesn't do much for me, I love her sun-covered stillness surrounded by the chaotic ocean. I didn't know until reading Kakki's heartfelt post about FTR that while writing songs for FTR Joni swam in the ocean every day, and that one day when coming out of the water she realized her depression had lifted. Now I look at this picture and see it differently, like Joni is part of all the swirls, and not just an observer. As beautiful as this picture is, I was always very glad it's on the inside, and wasn't used to sell the album. I read somewhere that she was thinking to use it on the outside, but was asked if she really wanted a sales sticker on her bare ass. Even without being asked that question, though, I don't think she would have put it on the outside of the cover; that type of display just doesn't seem to be her style. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:05:29 +0100 From: "paul tyrer" Subject: NJC list Hi Les I'll be interested to know how many existing JMDLers plump for the NJC option - Particularly on digest. I always felt that the issue wasn't really about 'just wanting joni content', but rather about controlling and limiting what could be said on the list. I guess the new option will be popular with newbies who haven't experienced the ecstasy (ok i exaggerate but only a little!) of NJC. But not very popular with anyone else... We'll see, I guess. By the way, as we're on the njc front, Eric, you've criticized political correctness. I think PC has many forms - from the eminently sensible to the quite ridiculous (although many of the ridiculous versions seem to me to have been invented by the right as a stick with which to beat the left). For me, PC is the opposite of regressive. If it means that people can't talk about 'queers' or 'niggers' without having to worry that they'll be slated for doing so - great. It's all very well to talk about 'free speech', but truly 'free speech' can deny people their basic human rights of respect and dignity - *their* freedoms, in fact. Love PX ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:06:40 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: NP??? In a message dated 4/10/99 1:37:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mia_ristan@hotmail.com writes: << Okay, just one thing...what does NP mean?!?!? >> Mia, NP= now playing. Many of our listers here are multi-taskers who enjoy listening to music while reading and posting on the JMDL. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:07:46 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) NJC? I agree with ET. I like the list as is LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:16:25 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: electricity and troubled child In a message dated 4/10/99 4:24:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fisher@myriad.net writes: << What is a copper headed Lizzy? >> Hi Cindy, Welcome to the list! I believe the copper headed Lizzy refers to a coin, though I am certainly not the lyrics expert in this group. Electricity also holds a special place in my heart and I loved it waaay before I had any idea what she was talking about. It just hit me, the WAY she sang the lyrics, the melody and guitar work. Maybe the mystery of the whole thing attracted me to it too, I don't know. Anyway, yes, your post did make it to the list and I/we look forward to hearing more from you! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 07:19:39 -0700 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: electricity Memory escapes right now, but I seem to recall Joni at a concert giving an intro about "Electricity". To make a long story short, it's about either at her gig someone else's gig the equipment went out. As she was waiting for the sound tech to repair it she started this jingle you know as "Electricity." JC or NJC this is a good group. Take care and make a friend gene ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:56:52 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: electricity and troubled child In a message dated 4/10/99 10:19:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: << Welcome to the list! I believe the copper headed Lizzy refers to a coin, though I am certainly not the lyrics expert in this group. Terry >> In support of what Terry said, we have discussed previously that the copper-headed Lizzy would be a Canadian coin with Queen Elizabeth on it. Back when pennys were copper, which is a pretty good conductor, people would use them in place of a fuse. Paul Ivice ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:18:33 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Bryan Update I just ordered my copy of Bryan Thomas' cd called "Radio Plastic Jennifer". Props to Michael Y. for posting the link to CD Baby, a company that is stocking the CD. If the CD is anything like Bryan's inventive take on "Black Crow" at the JMDL- New England get together, I will be enjoying it for sure. To learn more, Bryan's site is http://www.bryanthomas.com Les' photo-filled gallery of JMDL'ers is http://www.jmdl.com/gallery/galleryp.htm and the JMDL New England photos are on http://www.jmdl.com/gallery/party9809.htm - -- Read me or deleeeete me but don't try to shut me up, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:11:11 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: joni's butt From: "paul tyrer" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:09:59 +0100 Paul wrote << (though I agree with someone who posted a while ago that the cover of FTR is JM's dreariest. >> Pearl replied: Dreariest cover??? It may not be as artsy as some of the others, but at the time it came out I thought the inside cover was mindblowing. Joni standing naked on a rock in the ocean at Big Sur. Wow! I sure wouldn't call it dreary. Paul writes again: Joni's butt does nothing for me, alas! PX ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:31:28 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) NJ.C? From: "Deb Messling" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:14:55 +0000 I guess Les is having trouble getting his message out. Under the new system, those who like the list as it is will notice NO CHANGE AT ALL. Those who prefer not to read NJC can su.bscribe to the only-Joni option. As far as I can tell, Les has finally found a solution to please everyone, while censoring no one. > I agree with ET. I like the list as is LAHM Deb Messling ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:32:34 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: For The Roses/Hejira In a message dated 4/9/99 4:09:16 PM Central Daylight Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << HEY BOB- I am on the fence with this issue altho I lean towards FTR more of the time even though I can actually play and sing more songs from Hejira. (Whatever that means) I love your lyric even tho I don't know that tune from Oklahoma. Great job! >> Thanks Michael! And what I think it means is that you love both albums as do we all...is it strictly an American/competitive culture thing that we have to pick favorites, or is it just human nature? "Number one, got to be a trophy winner"... And I forget that not everyone grew up listening to Broadway show tunes and Ella sings the Rodgers & Hart songbook like I did...:~) Next time, I'll try and pick a more familiar tune... PS: I was in Clemson this weekend doing a Commedia del arte gig for a Clemson Sports Network party and I was the designated driver from Greenville to Clemson - needless to say, I had plenty of Joni (Clouds, FTR, TTT) in the CD changer. After we got back today, the guy who rode with me said "Thanks for turning me back on to Joni - I had forgotten she really is probably the best around" And welcome to Dax & Cindy...the more voices (out of tune or not) the better! Bob NP: Miles Davis "All Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:58:22 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: ftr cover I wrote: > And I love the way Joni looks on it,...unadorned in the way women usually are ... > But this is what I wanted to get across: "Joni ... unadorned, unlike the way women usually present themselves..." That's the problem with being so darn wordy -- things can get twisted. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:02:17 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Confusion over the list options? and member's CDs... At 4/10/99 04:05 AM, paul tyrer wrote about the whole NJC debate: >I always felt that the issue wasn't really >about 'just wanting joni content', but rather about controlling and limiting >what could be said on the list. Paul - If you are saying you disapprove of "censorship" - I agree 100%. This new list option does not censor anyone. The author of each message - and only the author - has the choice whether or not the onlyJoni people see his/her message. Then Dflahm@aol.com wrote: >I agree with ET. I like the list as is LAHM David - I agree with you, too. I like the list as it is. And, it still is exactly as it always was. Nothing has been changed - a new feature has simply been added for those who are interested. Finally, Deb Messling wrote: >I guess Les is having trouble getting his message out. Under the new >system, those who like the list as it is will notice NO CHANGE AT ALL. >Those who prefer not to read NJC can su.bscribe to the only-Joni option. As >far as I can tell, Les has finally found a solution to please everyone, >while censoring no one. Deb, you are exactly right. Do nothing to your subscription option and you will see no change at all. But if you prefer an abridged version, it's now available. On another note... I just want to put in a plug for a couple of list members who have CD's out. I don't know either of them personally and they certainly didn't ask me to plug for them but... Here's what I do know: I saw the NewEngland JoniFest tape from last fall and was blown away by Bryan Thomas' performance of some Joni songs. His CD is available here (I ordered it just now): http://www.cdbaby.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/buy/thomasb.htm?E+cdbaby And, I was talking to another list member on the phone recently who thought that David Lahm's CD of Joni material was very, very, VERY good. I've had it on order from CDNow for a week (it's backordered)... but it appears that it's available from Music Blvd here: http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/0629140077923773211_43_648867 Bryan? David? Is there a better or quicker way to get ahold of your stuff? Take care, Les ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:12:53 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: 31 acts set for Woodstock '99 (definitely NJC) This just in from a friend in Philly who says, "Yuck." Do not confuse this with the festivities that will (hopefully) be held near Bethel, NY, the weekend of August 13-15, 1999. Lori, crossing her fingers for Joni's return to Yasgur's Farm San Antonio - -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.nandotimes.com/noframes/story/0,2107,36429-58722-429520-0,00.html 31 acts set for Woodstock '99 Copyright © 1999 Nando Media Copyright © 1999 Associated Press By DAVID BAUDER NEW YORK (April 9, 1999 4:00 p.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) - Limp Bizkit? Korn? Rage Against the Machine? It's not your father's Woodstock. That's precisely the point. Woodstock '99 promoters announced a 31-act lineup Thursday geared to teens and 20-year-olds that, so far at least, doesn't include one performer from the namesake festival in 1969. The Dave Matthews Band, Jewel, Metallica and Alanis Morissette are this year's headliners for the three-day show, scheduled for July 23-25. It will be held at Griffiss Park, an abandoned Air Force base in Rome, N.Y., about 50 miles west of Albany. Organizers expect a crowd of about 250,000 people for the show, which also features Fatboy Slim, Sugar Ray, Creed, Counting Crows, Rusted Root, the Offspring, the Brian Setzer Orchestra, George Clinton and Willie Nelson. Six acts that played the 25-year anniversary concert, which drew an estimated 350,000 people to Saugerties, N.Y., are coming back: Metallica, Aerosmith, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Sheryl Crow, Live and Collective Soul. "Three more days of mud, noise and logistical nightmares?" said Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich. "Wouldn't miss it for the world." Although DMX and Ice Cube are included, the lineup is short on rap acts. Promoters say they expect to add six to 10 more acts. Organizers promise better security than at the first two Woodstocks, which were overrun by gatecrashers. Instead of the flimsy 6-foot chainlink fence that surrounded the Woodstock '94 site, Griffiss will be ringed by a 12-foot plywood fence backed with steel girders. Ticket packages including bus transportation will go on sale April 18, with prices starting at $249.99. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:59:02 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Confusion over the list options? and member's CDs... Les wrote: >Do nothing to your subscription option and you will see no change at all. But if you prefer an abridged version, it's now available. A good and seemingly painless solution, but I think the only-jonis are gonna secretly miss us eventually, heehee ;-D Kakki NP: Lead Balloon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:05:40 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: 31 acts set for Woodstock '99 (definitely NJC) At 4:12 PM -0400 4/10/99, LRFye@aol.com wrote: >That's precisely the point. Woodstock '99 promoters announced a 31-act >lineup Thursday geared to teens and 20-year-olds that, so far at least, >doesn't include one performer from the namesake festival in 1969. > >The Dave Matthews Band, Jewel, Metallica and Alanis Morissette are this >year's headliners for the three-day show, scheduled for July 23-25. It will >be held at Griffiss Park, an abandoned Air Force base in Rome, N.Y., about 50 >miles west of Albany. OK, if they're going to gear it towards my age, then why isn't Joni included?!? DMB is the only band worth going for... Mark Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark "This conformity factory is now closed!" -Homer Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:22:02 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: 31 acts set for Woodstock '99 (definitely NJC) Mark D. wrote: > OK, if they're going to gear it towards my age, then why isn't Joni > included?!? DMB is the only band worth going for... Mark, somehow I knew your response would be first on this subject ... All I can tell you is that Joni isn't included for the probably the same reason she gets no airplay. Would that reason be stupidity? Perhaps. Or maybe it's age discrimination ... Sitting here listening to the brilliance of HOSL, I find it obscene that Joni is not promoted by her company. Jewel and Alanis and other Joni-wannabes are well known while Joni -- such an obvious influence on these women and others - -- remains "unknown." I think the best we can hope for is that Joni returns to Yasgur's Farm in August ... Speaking of which, http://www.dayinthegarden.com is still an active web site, although it basically just tells you to stay tuned ... and that's what I'm doing. That, and praying a bit. Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:30:41 -0400 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: Bryan Update bryan is playing in nyc next week, on the 15th, at sidewalk, a little bar/restaurant about 200 feet from my door, so i'll be there. i'll wait and see if he's selling cds at the gig. as les wrote, bryan and his girlfriend cindy were at ashara's fest in september, and very late in the evening he did a version of little green that will live with me forever. i don't think this is still on his site, but he used to have a couple of pages about his recordings that are on 'a tape of you'; his version of 'black crow' and the only non-joni song, 'daughter'. it's really well-written and fascinating. his version of black crow includes the prince line from 'ballad of dorothy parker' where he sings 'help me', words based on part of '13 ways of looking at a black bird', a great poem cycle by wallace stevens, some wonderful changes in joni's lyrics (the pontoon plane somehow acquires a big yellow taxi just like this train), and a childrens' chorus at the end of 'joni's gonna hate this'. sweet and funny. it's a really well put together recording. i'm glad to see things shaking for bryan. patrick jfp - bryan thomas - wafers and wine http://www.bryanthomas.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 02:40:22 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Play Joni Hello All- I have been wondering how many of us on the list are musicians and what instruments we play. I am also wondering what Joni songs everyone plays. Since I discovered this list (not that I am Columbus or anything mind you) I have learned some many more of her songs using the tunings. Before I joined the list the only song I did was Peoples Parties (that I do in open E so I can sing it). I would like to know what instruments everyone plays and what songs you cover???? I Play the following on Piano: Two Grey Rooms Chinese Cafe Down To You The Same Situation Shades of Scarlet Conquering Coyote Court and Spark Edith and The Kingpin Free Man In Paris For Free Michael From Mountains Rainy Night House Harry's House Hejira (i use to do this on piano till I learned the guitar version) I Play the following on Guitar: People's Parties (Like Ashara and Kakki's parties, you know) Love Puts On A New Face Amelia Song For Sharon Circle Game (in regular tuning) Big Yellow Taxi Cherokee Louise Hejira Happiness is the Best Facelift Night Ride Home Refuge of the Roads Woodstock (yes on gtr and not the CSN version) Ladies of the Canyon Rainy Night House (In regular tuning) For Free (in regular tuning) Marcie (in regular tuning) Just Like This Train (finally thanks to Marian's help) I am currently working on OffNight BackStreet Number One My Secret Place Taming The Tiger Stay In Touch Crazy Cries of Love Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire (which I can play but not sing yet) IN a related story: I cover Long Ago and Far Away and You Can Close Your Eyes, which are songs Joni sang with James Taylor. I am looking forward to seeing other peoples lists of songs. I know some of you like Marian dwarf my list. Have a great weekend everyone. Love Michael NP-Blue-(My new gold CD. Thank you so much Wally!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:02:50 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: NJC member's CDs... In a message dated 4/10/99 3:10:53 PM Central Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << I've had it on order from CDNow for a week (it's backordered) >> My copy was also backordered...David, this disc is hot!! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 03:00:11 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: More Stuff Hi Bob Bob wrote: "is it strictly an American/competitive culture thing that we have to pick favorites, or is it just human nature?" For me I have faves, but only because they fit how I am may be feeling at the time or they reflect part of my history or how I felt at some important crossroad of my life. I have no desire to compete when it comes to music. I find it gratifing to read other peoples opinions regarding Joni's work especially. I find it very interesting the types of people that she attracts. The first thing I'd say about people who like Joni is they have great musical taste! I think big egos and/or arrogance to be a common thread there in many people (not that big egos or arrogance is a bad thing). One thing that Ashara mentioned to me was that she thought that the people on this list where intelligent and loving and I find that to be so true. One thing for sure I have met people here that have left a Sasquatchewan (combimation of Big Foot and a Saskatooner) size footprint on my heart (and some of those people I have not even met in the flesh YET). Many of you I think will be close friends forever. Thanks to all for your contributions to this list. Best Michael (off to play baseball with Mikey) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:17:17 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Play Joni I play the guitar (duh), a Washburn D-12S I absolutely love, a Peavey Strat, a Gibson Blueshawk, and a few POS's. I also play the dulcimer on occasion. I've been trying to get back into it. I play a little piano occasionally. One of my dreams is to play any Joni song on the piano... perhaps someone at a JMDL gathering this summer could teach me? :-) I have played every song on the JMDL guitar page and then some. I love Joni's tuning of CGDFCE which she calls California Kitchen tuning. Most of the time I stick with that tuning. DACEGA and CGDEGC as well. So, the following songs I tend to play more than others: The Circle Game This Flight Tonight Cold Blue Steel Electricity Woman of Heart + Mind Just Like This Train Coyote A Strange Boy Hejira SFS Black Crow ROTR DJRD Silky Veils Of Ardor Woodstock Cherokee Louise Sex Kills TI Yvette In English The Wolf That Lives... GMBABM Love's Cries (Yes, I know) Tiger Bones Now for covers! Oh, God... too many! Edie Brickell, Neil Young, CSN, CCR, Dave Matthews, Tim Reynolds... Looking forward to Howard W's and Marians! ;-) NP-Bob Marley-Redemption Song Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark "This conformity factory is now closed!" -Homer Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:32:55 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Play Joni In a message dated 4/10/99 7:50:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << I would like to know what instruments everyone plays and what songs you cover???? >> Michael, Your list is very impressive! First, I play acoustic guitar, bass guitar (poorly), piano and drums. Recently got a dulcimer but it hurts my fingers! Also have an old cello that I'll get to someday. The only thing I *don't* play of Joni's is...The Jungle Line. KIDDING!!! Guitar: Urge For Going Michael From Mountains Night In The City Marcie (though I think I've forgotten that one) Cactus Tree Chelsea Morning I Don't Know Where I Stand (faked, in standard tuning) That Song About The Midway ( "") Roses Blue Both Sides Now Morning Morgantown Conversation The Priest (standard) Big Yellow Taxi Circle Game All I Want (standard-fake) Little Green-standard Carey- standard This Flight Tonight-FUN to play! A Case Of You- standard Cold Blue Steel Barangrill For The Roses Electricity (my fav to play) You Turn Me On.. Woman Of Heart & Mind Help Me (fake) Same Situation (fake) Just Like This Train (needs WORK) Edith (thanks to Marian, but needs work) Song For Sharon (needs a LOT of work- hard to sing and play to) Night Ride Home Cherokee Louise (needs work) Sunny Sunday Borderline (needs work) Yvette In English ( ") Piano: For Free Willy Rainy Night House Blue Boy (sortta) Circle Game - hey it works on piano too Woodstock All I Want Little Green Carey Blue Working on River- I loved how Michael Y played it in Pitt. Case of You- yep, works on piano Judgement- only have the intro down : ( Same Situation Just Like This Train **I really want to learn Hejira songs and TTT** Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:37:11 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Both Sides Now (NJC) Les wrote: <> WOW Les! I sure hope you have a program that separates JC & NJC and don't have to do it manually! I also want to thank you for all the time=money & energy you put into this enlightening list. E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:03:10 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: For The Roses In a message dated 4/9/1999 2:01:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << So everytime I play this album it reminds me of her triumphant return and victory and it is just as compelling as the first time I experienced it. I was just so glad she made it back and brought us this gorgeous music as an eternal bonus. Kakki the Rosarian >> My dear, you write so beautifully! You spoke the words that I feel but can't put down on paper like you do. I was trying to point this out earlier in one of my posts but it did not come out like your did. THANK-YOU! The love I have for this music is like yours and I am grateful that you could say want I want to but can't find in words! Catgirl......the nonwriter! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:07:58 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: NJC list Paul wrote: >...By the way, as we're on the njc front, Eric, you've criticized political >correctness. I think PC has many forms - from the eminently sensible >to the quite ridiculous (although many of the ridiculous versions seem to >me to have been invented by the right as a stick with which to beat the left). >For me, PC is the opposite of regressive. If it means that people can't >talk about 'queers' or 'niggers' without having to worry that they'll be >slated for doing so - great. It's all very well to talk about 'free >speech', but truly 'free speech' can deny people their basic human rights >of respect and dignity - *their* freedoms, in fact. Yo Paul, I feel a little embarrased that I "shouted" (all caps) at the JMDL and even more embarrassed that it was the first post on digest! Thanks for your supportive input. Good point on PC. I've never thought of it that way. I quess what annoys me about PC is it keeps changing. Just when I thought *black*, *woman* and *gay* were the PC things to say, suddenly blacks want to be called African American (a real mouthful), women approve of girl & bitch, and gays proudly call themselves queer! This is all very confusing.... E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:11:19 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) NJC? & Re: NJC first post- Subject: Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) NJC? Eric wrote: >...SO YOU KNOW THAT I'M DISTURBED.... yes, that's all right eric, we already knew that. LoL!~;) second post- Subject: Re: NJC then Eric wrote: >Sorry if I offended anybody by calling you squeamish or politically correct last night!> (speaking as at least one of your primary intended targets) you did... that was pretty hostile... but I, for one, welcome and accept your apology. glad to see you have the sense to see how wrong what you said was. and added: >I just feel so strongly about free speech and our individual right to choose what we read....> so tell me, eric... do you also feel strongly that about MY individual right to choose what *I* read??? how about opinions? do your 'strong feelings' include me also having the 'individual right' to have and express those, even if they disagree with yours? or do you think that I should just shut up and keep my thoughts to myself? just curious... *S* pat NP: I'm Not Saying - Lightfoot http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:12:08 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Joni's Most Sexy Song Due to the recent Jungle Line discussion, I've been playing HOSL repeatedly since late last night. And it occurred to me that I've always felt a pure sexuality emanating from The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, which is probably exactly what Joni intended. And if I had to cast a vote for Joni's most sexy song, I would probably go with Shades Of Scarlet Conquering. I'm sure there are lots of opinions about this ... ! What is your choice for Joni's Most Sexy Song? Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:45:16 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) NJC? & Re: NJC Aloha Pat! I swear I didn't have you in mind when I shouted at everybody yesterday. I am a very opinionated person & you wouldn't believe how hard it is for me to restrain sometimes. Put a sixpack in me and it's even harder. It's just that I get so pissed at the endless nasty cat fights that flare up every month when someone violates the NJC code. I think it's selfish, lazy & CENSORSHIP! Anyone can already filter out NJC in the subject line easily with Outlook Express or Netscape. Sorry but I think this whole NJC thing is a power play/ego trip and it's made me consider leaving the JMDL on several occasions. Why do you think Julie, Marsha, and dozens of other NJC contributors are gone? What is a lot more important to me than labling something NJC is that people don't post personal disputes to the list. I just hope having to create two new lists for JC purists doesn't cost Les more time=money. That's really what pushed my button. Am I making an absolute ass out of myself already? E.T. NP: No Apologies - -----Original Message----- From: P. Henry To: ewwtaylor@adelphia.net Cc: joni@smoe.org Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 9:11 PM Subject: Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) NJC? & Re: NJC >first post- >Subject: Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) NJC? > >Eric wrote: > >>...SO YOU KNOW THAT I'M DISTURBED.... > >yes, that's all right eric, we already knew that. LoL!~;) > > >second post- >Subject: Re: NJC > >then Eric wrote: >>Sorry if I offended anybody by calling you squeamish or politically correct last night!> > >(speaking as at least one of your primary intended targets) you did... that was pretty hostile... but I, for one, welcome and accept your apology. glad to see you have the sense to see how wrong what you said was. > >and added: >>I just feel so strongly about free speech and our individual right to choose what we read....> > >so tell me, eric... do you also feel strongly that about MY individual right to choose what *I* read??? how about opinions? do your 'strong feelings' include me also having the 'individual right' to have and express those, even if they disagree with yours? or do you think that I should just shut up and keep my thoughts to myself? just curious... *S* > > pat ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:16:04 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: "Blue" Gold CD I'm sputtering in awe here with my first listen to the gold "Blue" CD. WOW. There is *no* comparison to vinyl, HDCD, tape, whatever - zip, nada, nope, not even close, not even in the same realm - The only way I am able to describe it is that it is 1971 and Joni is sitting in your living room and you are hearing it for the very first time. Mindblowing - do shell out your clams for this one Kakki, completely stunned ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:31:28 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Who was Don Juan ? New Age ? In a message dated 4/9/1999 6:53:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, messling@enter.net writes: << I think Joni was deliberately invoking *both* Don Juans in the song DJRD. The reckless lover and the spirit seeker. When Joni sings, "oh say can you see?" (isn't "see" in italics on the liner notes?) she is alluding to a concept of "seeing" truth put forth in the Castaneda books. Or so I'm told -- I haven't read them. >> That is a very good observation and one I never considered. I just LOVE that song. The words in that song are so profound. It amazes me that she writes such incredible words and then the music she puts to them are not just simple chords that so many female musicians use. The music is deep and full of flavor. Such a combination is incredible for one person to come up with. Cat..... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:40:17 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #149 In a message dated 4/9/1999 9:13:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, djk@math.duke.edu writes: << You're right, Kakki. JM used to be very reclusive regarding the media. An interview with her was so rare that it was like getting an exotic dessert you wanted to savor and yet gobble up. I'm just now finding out things I've wondered about for 20 years or more! It's probably a combination of her being less sensitive to criticism and misinterpretation and because of her age wanting to get the record straight as far as her interpretation of her music. DK >> This is another good point that I would like to follow up with a question. She has 2 live albums out and tons of bootleg...why has there not been a release of *unreleased* Joni? Kinda like what the Beatles did. She also needs to sit down with someone and do her own biography. I have the one by Hinton but I have heard there were some discrepancies in it. I wish instead of the Hits and Misses CD's that she would have come out with a box set and put some unreleased material on that as well. Catgirl..inquiring minds want to know... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:44:13 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Confusion over the list options? and member's CDs... Les--about the list: I think I understand. Cool. About JAZZ TAKES ON JONI MITCHELL: I have seen it in stores and Kakki said she'd got it from CDNow in two days. That's the best info I have at present. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:50:41 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Hejira/FTR In a message dated 4/9/1999 9:37:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: << I, too, am a Hejira lover and though I find it an incredibly intense album, can understand how others might see it as being bland. The intensity, to me, is in it's subtlety. >> I for one see no *blandness* in Hejira. The bass is great, the singing is awesome and the words flow with such feel.....Coyotee is a nice fast pace song and the rest take you on a journey. This album is an adventure. When I was out west 7 years ago I listen to that album and felt free and alive. I felt that I was seeing some of the things she saw on her journey. I saw my first Winn Dixie Grocery Store! The west is so open and when I heard Amelia, driving down a lone highway a smile crept on my face. I had to stop the car, get out and walk around and really feel that place. Joni's Hejira is a journey and to me not one string of blandness! Catgirl....seeking refuge on the roads ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:58:27 EDT From: AUDRE60317@aol.com Subject: Day in the Garden - njc Article in today's local paper said they will start to announce acts for this summer this month. Keep you posted! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:59:57 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Most Sexy Song In a message dated 4/10/1999 9:16:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LRFye@aol.com writes: << Due to the recent Jungle Line discussion, I've been playing HOSL repeatedly since late last night. And it occurred to me that I've always felt a pure sexuality emanating from The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, which is probably exactly what Joni intended. And if I had to cast a vote for Joni's most sexy song, I would probably go with Shades Of Scarlet Conquering. I'm sure there are lots of opinions about this ... ! What is your choice for Joni's Most Sexy Song? >> I would have to say *Blue Motel Room* on first impression but after giving it some extra thought...sexiest song....let's see...for me it would be *A Case of You* The vocal on that is so full of expression and want. That is one of the all time best songs ever! Catgirl....and if you don't agree go listen to it again! ;o) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:58:50 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Ordering Jazz Takes David wrote: >Les--about the list: I think I understand. Cool. About JAZZ TAKES ON JONI >MITCHELL: I have seen it in stores and Kakki said she'd got it from CDNow in >two days. That's the best info I have at present. DAVID LAHM Everyone I know who has tried to order it through CDNow is told it is backordered. Funny thing is they told me the same thing and then emailed me saying it shipped out and sure enough there it was the next day. Can't wait for more to hear it! Kakki NP: Johnny Rivers - Rollin' Stone ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:15:26 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: "Political correctness" (NJC) Eric Taylor wrote: > > Sorry if I offended anybody by calling you squeamish or politically correct > last night! (BTW, I'm glad that PC is a dirty word.) Oh, I'm not. Let me tell you why. > I just feel so strongly about free speech and our individual right to > choose what we read.... The original intent of "political correctness" (a term coined by Karen DeCrow, then president of the National Organization of Women, in 1975 -- earlier than you might think?) was to acknowledge and address the fact that language is not "transparent," as we would often like to believe: it has the power to reinforce subtle, but often directly hurtful, forms of marginalization and inequality in society -- this relates to "Othering" as discussed in the Jungle Line thread. I see it as having very little to do with free speech. The point is, if you knew a word was offensive, why would you *want* to use it? "Political correctness" has become a "dirty word" mostly thanks to reactionary opponents like conservative talk-radio hosts and the authors of those allegedly humorous books like "The Politically Correct Handbook." They created an unfounded caricature and then used that caricature to discredit and demonize the original model, possibly because they're the ones who usually benefit from the inequalities that "political incorrectness" perpetuates. (Much like the term "feminist," as we have discussed here before.) On top of that, the original meaning of "political correctness" has become confused and obscure, with liberals and conservatives alike proudly (!) proclaiming their "political incorrectness" in the wake of the reactionaries' success in discrediting the term. Now many people just equate it with "bad" without thinking about what it really means. And any attempt to address the serious, subtle issues it raises is likely to be dismissed out of hand. My opinion. - --David, proud to be (or try to be) politically correct. Voluntarily excluding certain words from my vocabulary hasn't created an aching void in my life. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:17:31 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Is this Joni? I am in the mist of learning to use my new Cd burner. I am experimenting with a bootleg record I have to see if it works. This should be an affirmative! I will repeat myself in saying that if anyone has any DAT of Joni or really good master tapes, I am willing to send a Cd for free, for the ability to make your master tape into a CD! Please let me know! Catgirl..is this Joni or not..I am not sure! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:09:35 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Important JMDL Announcement (for real this time) NJC? & Re: NJC In a message dated 4/10/1999 9:47:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ewwtaylor@adelphia.net writes: << I just hope having to create two new lists for JC purists doesn't cost Les more time=money. That's really what pushed my button. Am I making an absolute ass out of myself already? E.T. >> I am new to the list but nevertheless as much as a Joni freak as the next guy. I enjoy the different posts and what I don't like I push my delete button. I did not know that this was even a problem. I LOVE this new list and will stay as long as it exists. I think we can all agree to get along and be kind and patient! Catgirl...my 2 cents...... ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #153 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?