From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #149 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, April 8 1999 Volume 04 : Number 149 Joni the Joni Mitchell Internet Community Glossary project. Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: needle exchange ["Kakki" ] Re: PWWAM video - questions/observations ["Kakki" ] Re: CD Recorder (NJC) ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: NJC: jane/rufus news... [David Wright ] Re: PWWAM video - questions/observations ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Hejira ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: XTC (With Added JC) [David Wright ] Re: The Jungle Line (was Re: Faves/Least faves) [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Blue FTR Hejira/Joni interview ["Kakki" ] Re: Jungle Line [David Wright ] the Jungle Line [evian ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 19:55:19 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: needle exchange Randy, Davina and Maurice, Thanks so much for the needle info. I've felt lost about this for awhile. Went to Radio Shack recently and they were not much help - said I had to order one and it costs over $100 as they gave me a look like I just emerged from a cave! Great advice on the Disc-washing, too! A couple months ago I unearthed my old Discwasher from the bottom of a long forgotten box of books. Bought it back in the 70s and I recall it was very expensive back then - around $20. Seems the price has not gone up! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 20:24:24 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: PWWAM video - questions/observations Mark wrote: >But I think some of her other records are much more interesting >and more daring musically. I've always been one of the few on this >list that doesn't cite Hejira as the crowning acheivement of Joni's >career. Compared to say, Turbulent Indigo, I find it a little on the >bland side. > >Heresy! Burn the Heretic! Twin of spirit and fellow heretically scourged one! It's funny how, although we all love Joni equally, the biggest "schism" I've noticed is between the Hejira fave and non-Hejira fave contingents. More specifically, it seems to ultimately boil down to a FTR vs. Hejira preference in the absolute fave category. I felt even more in the minority when Joni herself came out and declared Hejira her own favorite. Then again maybe she will change her mind one of these days ;-) There is overwhelming brilliance and beauty all through Hejira, but still.....it is bland to my personal heart & soul frequency compared to FTR and some of the others. I've tried to repent and change my ways but am hopelessly incorrigible on this one. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:47:25 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: CD Recorder (NJC) catman wrote: <> I love my HP 7200e! I bought it a few months back anticipating a meltdown and having 5000 .jpg photo files on my hard drive that would have require 500 floppy disks to copy. I had to rename four Windows program file extentions to get it running properly and there are at least five different ways of copying CDs. The best way I've found is to created a folder on the desktop, copy all the files from the CD into that file*, and then highlight all those files and drag then to the CD-Writer drive (*make sure you have Show All Files checked in the View/Folder Options box). The thing I love about it most - besides the fact that I can save all files directly onto CD and not worry about crashes - is making fav music discs. No hiss, distortion or level settings. Tapes are a thing of the past.... E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 23:48:19 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: NJC: jane/rufus news... barbearuh wrote: > > Cape Breton fiddler Ashley MacIsaac will join an > array of Canadian talent for The Stage for AIDS at > the National Arts Centre on May 29. Since we know about Jane and Rufus already....let me put in a plug for Ashley MacIsaac. Cape Breton had a large, very early (I think) Scottish immigration, and the people preserved the old Scottish music (especially the reels and other dance tunes) and the language. Ashley, who's in his early/mid-20s and queer, BTW, has a flashy, eclectic sort of rock and roll album, _Hi How Are You Today?_ (on A&M records), which I like; and a couple of more traditional Cape Breton albums. I'd say he's comparable in some ways, at least in style and in relation to the folk scene, to England's Eliza Carthy. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:58:20 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: PWWAM video - questions/observations Kakki wrote: >Twin of spirit and fellow heretically scourged one! It's funny how, >although we all love Joni equally, the biggest "schism" I've noticed is >between the Hejira fave and non-Hejira fave contingents. More specifically, >it seems to ultimately boil down to a FTR vs. Hejira preference in the >absolute fave category. I felt even more in the minority when Joni herself >came out and declared Hejira her own favorite. Then again maybe she will >change her mind one of these days ;-) There is overwhelming brilliance and >beauty all through Hejira, but still.....it is bland to my personal heart & >soul frequency compared to FTR and some of the others. I've tried to repent >and change my ways but am hopelessly incorrigible on this one. Don't forget Blue. That's been picked as a favourite many times (myself included) since I joined the list, and that's only a month or so! But I must say, I'm a little fickle, in that I have different favourites for different reasons. Blue is my favourite purely for the lyrics and emotions it conjures, simply due to the time in my life that I discovered it; Hejira is my favourite all-round - lyrically, musically, emotionally; Wild Things Run Fast has a special meaning, because it was my first Joni album, and I wore it out before finding another; Turbulent Indigo rates as well, I love the full sound of the guitar, and the lyrics blow me away; Court and Spark is my favourite "driving" album; etc., etc., etc.! So it's never an easy choice - and for same reasons, I found picking a most/least favourite song from each album, damn near impossible, and nearly gave up. Even now I look back at my choices and think - no, that's not the one I should have picked! And I honestly didn't know that Joni had said that Hejira was her favourite when I started this thread - must have been something in the way she sang them! Helen NP - Mamas and Papas - If You Can Believe Your Ears and Eyes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 22:04:32 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: NJC: Re: CD 2-second pause between tracks From: Barry Toranto Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 20:41:30 -0800 to avoid the 2 sec. pause 1st you have to have a cd recorded that can record "disc at once"... and 2nd a program that will do the same. toast did not and i believe still does not support disc at once, jam does. at the very least you could change the gap to a 0 gap, if your recorded does not support disc at once you will still get a click between songs. Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 05:10:23 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: CD Recorder (NJC) since we're talking cd recorders here... my computer cd recorder will add an annoying 2-second pause between tracks when i'm trying to record opera [opera cd's have tracks but no silence in between the tracks]. this pause substracts the two seconds from the original sound. as a result, for example, the soprano is cut in the middle of a note, there's 2-second pause, the track changes and the soprano finishes her note. do you think that this is due to the cd recording software, the machine, me, the soprano? i'm not machine-savvy at all, so suggestions will be most appreciated. wallyk Barry Toranto DATLand 1-800-747-DATS check out our website: www.infoasis.com/people/wigt email: wigt@infoasis.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:07:56 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Hejira Cathy asked: <> I've heard Joni pronounce it: heh-JEER-a. E.T. NP: Ray of Light ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 00:19:34 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: XTC (With Added JC) Gina wrote: > > Sounds really nice but pretty much the same sort of good thing that > they've been putting out for some years now? Am I mistaken? Bob wrote: > > Gina, I had to smile at the last comment you made here...after all, > isn't what most of the uninformed out there say about our beloved Joni? ??? I thought the standard complaint about Joni was exactly the opposite -- she doesn't make melodic, folky albums like Blue and C&S anymore, doesn't sing "The Circle Game" and "Both Sides Now," -- won't paint a starry night again, or whatever it is. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:46:07 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: The Jungle Line (was Re: Faves/Least faves) David, I could see the possibility that Mitchell's moving to America and further up the ladder as a professional musician brought her rather quickly into contact with many more black people than she'd known earlier in her life. As someone who takes human interchange seriously, probably doesn't go in for small-talk, she might well have had some memorable--painful, thrilling, illuminating--conversations and relationships with black people (most likely men). In "The Jungle Line", I get the impression that what is black is painted as having considerably more vitality than what is white. When I used the word "sinister", I was using it to suggest STRANGENESS, ATTRACTIVE MYSTERY, better yet (Although unfortunately clinical-sounding) SOMETHING WHICH IS ANXIETY-PRODUCING rather than moral deficiency or evil. And I don't believe that JM was writing a tract. The song (like all her songs, like all songs) is first and foremost a work of the imagination. It seems so bold and confident that I was surprised at its being the Least Fave of so many posters. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 22:01:39 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Blue FTR Hejira/Joni interview Helen wrote: >Don't forget Blue. That's been picked as a favourite many times (myself >included) since I joined the list, and that's only a month or so! Of course, I thought of Blue, too, right after I hit send! Argh. Guess I was thinking too much of the radical FTR underground here on the list with whom I've had private raves. They know who they are, but I'm not naming names! >So it's never an easy choice - and for same reasons, I found picking a >most/least favourite song from each album, damn near impossible, and nearly >gave up. Even now I look back at my choices and think - no, that's not the >one I should have picked! I have the same agony - to me it's like trying to choose between the 4 oz. and the 8 oz. Filet Mignon. >And I honestly didn't know that Joni had said that Hejira was her favourite >when I started this thread - must have been something in the way she sang >them! I believe she mentioned it at the taping and also in several of her interviews recently. Speaking of which, the uncut version of the interview just up on Wally's site is really revelatory. Is it just me, or does Joni seem to be becoming even more forthcoming than usual lately? Although she addresses old ground in several areas (record biz blues, artistic intergrity, etc.) she really seems to be laying it all out more passionately than ever. I get the feeling she is really intent on being better understood. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 01:58:38 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Jungle Line Mark, thanks for your truly thoughtful post and I enjoyed your remarks about HOSL as a concept album. Mark wrote: > > I don't think there was any racist comment intended or any equating of > the Burundi drummers with Primitivism or darkness or evil. I also > don't think that 'threatening' or 'primitive' necessarily means 'bad'. But you said above that The Jungle Line is the most blatant expression of the thread of primitivism running through HOSL. I agree with that interpretation, actually. My question is, why the equation in The Jungle Line (and elsewhere) of the Burundi drummers with "primitive" and "threatening," whether those things are bad or not (I think it's arguable), when the Burundi drummers are *not* primitive or threatening? (Threatening whom, and with what?) > They help to give the song an exotic feel which is > appropriate to the setting. Does exotic equate with racist? I'm not > trying to be glib, I'm honestly asking the question. Thanks for doing so! And I'll try to answer honestly (if maybe indirectly)....I think the thing is, "exotic" is almost always applied to non-Western (frequently Asian, in my experience) cultural products -- I doubt you would ever see "exotic" used to describe, say, a western classical music piece, even a very unusual one (unless of course it was influenced by Asian or other non-western music), or a painting by Van Gogh. Just like there are some (derogatory) adjectives that are sexist because they are usually only applied to women -- "bitchy," "catty," "hysterical" (in its "neurotic" meaning; from the same root as "hysterectomy"). This usage of "exotic" seems to me to imply that elements/products of our white culture *transcend* race and culture; "exotic" marks something that exists in the west only as a foreign ("other") element -- it does not transcend. "Exotic" has another bad connotation too; coincidentally, I was just sending a friend some lyrics from an album by Sami singer Mari Boine Persen. The Sami, as I mentioned the other day, are the native people of northern Scandanavia and suffered the same sort of oppression under white European rule as the native Americans and Australians -- systematic destruction of culture and language, forced assimilation, and prejudice. She writes powerful, scathing political lyrics (in Sami) rooted in her "rebellion against her own role as an inferior Lappish woman in the great Norwegian society." (She's also a great singer -- the album is _Gula Gula_.) One of her songs says: Your power has no color You are a white thief... [snip] We are exotic to be stolen for mere decoration (from "White Thief") Have to go now Heavy day of posting for me - --David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 00:01:26 -0600 From: evian Subject: the Jungle Line All this talk about "The Jungle Line" is really interesting. Maybe I have been missing the point all these years, but the reason that I thought that people maybe don't react positively to "The Jungle Line" is just because it marks such a departure for Joni. I didn't get into Joni until '88, and my first Joni albums were Blue, CMIARS, C&S, and Hejira. Then I got HOSL in '90, and I could tell that was a VAST change for her... it wasn't that I didn't like it... it was more that I was expecting another album that sounded like a prototype of Blue, or FTR, or C&S, or whatever. Then, when I heard "The Jungle Line", I thought "whoa baby, this marks an end of an era" in some way. Joni took a huge gamble I think by "branching out" or whatever you want to call it with HOSL instead of making C&S, Part Two. So anyway, I wasn't all that impressed with "The Jungle Line" for quite a while because it seemed to stick out like a sore thumb. Of course, now that I have seen the error of my ways, and am obsessed with the album, "The Jungle Line" is one of my fave tracks. Anyway, I just assumed people weren't all that receptive to it because of its startling "difference" from the rest of Joni's work up to that point. Evian ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #149 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. 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