From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #130 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, March 26 1999 Volume 04 : Number 130 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- NJC: H'wood b'balling [Kate Tarasenko ] YOU LIGHT UP MY LIFE BY CAROLE KING NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: distortion,pt 2 [Mark or Travis ] CD Snafus (NJC) [Leslie Mixon ] Painting with... [Steve Dulson ] RE: RE: NJC! - Internet long distance [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Painting with... [Steve Dulson ] Re: Splendour and Kazan njc Painting with...jc [Strummed@aol.com] RE: What's Up (NJC)] [FMYFL@aol.com] RE: RE: RE: NJC! - Internet long distance [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Re: (NJC) Splendour and Kazan njc Painting with...jc [LRFye@aol.com] Re: (NJC) Splendour and Kazan njc Painting with...jc ["Don Rowe" ] Today in Joni History - March 26 [Today in Joni History ] Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling [Kate Tarasenko ] Vocal Recording Techniques ;-) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling [IVPAUL42@aol.com] RE: Painting with... ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: (NJC) Communism ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Imaginative Vocal Recording Techniques ;-) [MDESTE1@aol.com] RE: Vocal Recording Techniques ;-) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: distortion,pt 2 [Randy Remote ] 7 Deadly Sins (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling [LRFye@aol.com] recipe book [Jerry Notaro ] Re: recipe book ["Kakki" ] Re: recipe book [LRFye@aol.com] Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling [LRFye@aol.com] Re: recipe book ["Davina Greenstein" ] Re[2]: NJC: H'wood b'balling [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Re[2]: NJC: H'wood b'balling [LRFye@aol.com] Kazan and causes... [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] WOW - Painting with words and music ["Angela Takats" ] The Painted iD - April Shows ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Re: (NJC) Splendour and Kazan njc Painting with...jc [LRFye@aol.com] Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling [Mark or Travis ] RE: recipe book ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: WOW - Painting with words and music ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: recipe book [TerryM2442@aol.com] "UP-lifting titles ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: "UP- the DOWN staircase [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Blacklisting depicted in films [Dflahm@aol.com] Neil Young's "Sweet Joni"... [Bounced Message ] Re: WOW - Painting with words and music ["Jeffery W. Osborne" ] Re: "UP- the DOWN staircase [Randy Remote ] Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling [Joseph Palis ] Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling [Joseph Palis ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 01:50:56 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: NJC: H'wood b'balling Re: Dalton Trumbo -- this writer, along with other writers and directors, actually spent time in prison for refusing to name names to the HUAC. The U.S. government carried out some very real threats to many in the movie biz who refused to cooperate with McCarthy's witch hunt. Some fled to Mexico to find work, others to NYC, many without success. And although some established artists were able to ride it out, many careers and lives were ruined. I'm a huge fan of Kazan's work ("A Tree Grows in Brooklyn," "Streetcar," etc.), but this recent controversy gives rise to an interesting (though perennial) debate: Can public figures/artists lead lives separate from their work? Is it fair to judge Bill Clinton, or Michael Jackson, or Woody Allen, or [fill in the blank]? Fed up yet? "What's Up, Tiger Lily?" -- Woody Allen Kate in CO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 06:50:30 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: YOU LIGHT UP MY LIFE BY CAROLE KING NJC Janet: "You light up my life" is track # 10 on Carole King's 1973 "Fantasy" Album. It goes: "You light up my life like sunrise in the morning you make me believe anything is possible I didn't have a dream to my name darkness was mine, it was such a shame but you came to light up my life you brought me faith and hope and love and light...etc" Maybe somebody ELSE wrote another song with the same title afterwards. I believe that's possible. WallyK - -----Original Message----- De: Janet Hess Para: Wally Kairuz CC: joni@smoe.org Fecha: Miércoles 24 de Marzo de 1999 22:40 Asunto: RE: What's Up (NJC)] > >AAAAAck!!! Carole King and "You light up my life"???? Did Debbie Boone >write "Up on the Roof" and "Natural Woman"? > >;p > > > > >At 12:01 AM 3/25/1999 -0300, you wrote: >>You light up my life, Carole King >>Wake up and make love to me, WHO??? Barry White????? >>WallyK >> >> >> > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 04:55:14 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling In a message dated 3/25/99 3:52:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, netgirl@ctos.com writes: << I'm a huge fan of Kazan's work ("A Tree Grows in Brooklyn," "Streetcar," etc.), but this recent controversy gives rise to an interesting (though perennial) debate: Can public figures/artists lead lives separate from their work? Is it fair to judge Bill Clinton, or Michael Jackson, or Woody Allen, or [fill in the blank]? >> Speaking of Elia Kazan and Woody Allen, I wonder if anyone remembers the movie "The Front" in which Woody plays a delicatessen cashier who becomes a front for a group of blacklisted television writers? Also a great performance by Zero Mostel. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:02:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: Audiophiles: distortion, pops and fizzles on Blue, C&S etc From: Randy Remote >On "Blue": I'm responding to Howard Wright's post of 3/23. >the "obvious glitch" on the last chorus of "This Flight Tonight" >"Starbright, you got the lovin'" @2:21 > ^^ >I don't hear this one. No? To me it's the most obvious case of distortion/overload. Interesting to read your comments on C&S - for the standard and HDCD versions. The vocal break between verses of "Car on a Hill" and parts of "Trouble Child" were the bits that struck me as having sound problems. Sounds like you heard the same thing on both the normal *and* HDCD versions. From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" >I think that the glitch on "YOOOU" that Howard talked about in "This >Flight Tonight" is a mic overloading but it might be tape saturation. >Does someone know for sure? I'm not sure - my feeling is that it's the mic overloading. Most of the vocals on Blue sound as if they were recorded with very little or no compression, so that Joni has to physically move closer to the mic for the quiet parts, and further away for the loud parts. The tone of the voice, the reverb and the perception of "distance" varies quite a lot between soft and quiet parts. The quiet vocals sound very intimate, close to the mic, and the loud parts sound more distant. If this was the case, that Joni was controlling the levels by moving nearer/further from the mic, it's not surprising to know that once in a while it didn't work out - hence the overloaded "You" on This Flight. It does give the vocals a more natural sound overall, which is maybe why they did things this way. >Howard postulated that the crackles on the >line "just mythical" was due to poor manufacturing of the original >"Blue" CD. Unfortunately there are crackles in my HDCD in the same spot >though. Again, I don't have the HDCD, so it's interesting to hear that. Could be another case of "mustard from the sound engineer's sandwich on the tape" ? From: Randy Remote >Free Man in Paris- @:23 there is a warbling dropout, maybe a >tape splice "in it for their own gain ^^^ you can't please >them.." Yes, this is a tape splice. It sounds worse on the standard CD than on the HDCD version from "Hits". I guess they smoothed it out somehow. There are some other obvious tape splices in Clouds - one in "Tin Angel" around the line "maple leaves". Someone also mentioned the f***-up at the very beginning of the standard Blue CD. The first half second or so of "All I Want" is missing. I tried several versions of Blue from the shops, but they all had the same problem! I guess the HDCD is OK in this respect? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:08:20 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] In a message dated 3/24/99 10:51:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, IVPAUL42 writes: > << What's Up Pussycat? (Tom Jones?) >> > > Sorry, that would be "What's NEW, Pussycat?" > > entry disqualified. How will I ever live that one down except to say I was really young and probably didn't even speak English yet (lame excuses, I know ) when it was popular. Gina NP: coffee makin' gurgles (hey, Penny, add *that* to oodles and noodles and doodles!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:43:38 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Replacements (njc) evian, proving that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, says: <> LOL! It reminds me of when I was a senior in college, interviewing with First Union Bank in Charlotte, and the lady asked me "If you could have any job, regardless of salary, what would you be?" I answered without hesitation "A Rock & Roll DJ"! I probably got points for honesty, but they didn't choose me to be a part of their corporate loan team! :~) Now, on to The Replacements. One of the few true rocking bands of the disposable eighties...Unfortunately, way ahead of their time. They were nasty, grungy and loud when it wasn't fashionable. It had to kill Paul Westerberg to see bands with half his talent sell 10 times as many records in the 90's, especially when The Goo Goo Dolls come out with "Name" which even I thought was Westerberg! Luckily he's still out there doing his solo stuff. One of my regrets is never seeing the "Mats in concert...definitely a lot of distortion from these dudes! Bob NP: Beth Orton "Love Like Laughter" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 06:31:49 -0800 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] Janet Hess wrote: > > AAAAAck!!! Carole King and "You light up my life"???? Did Debbie Boone > write "Up on the Roof" and "Natural Woman"? Carole wrote another, different song called 'You Light Up My Life'. It's on her 'Fantasy' album. You light up my life Like sunrise in the morning You make me believe Anything is possible Mark in Seattle (quoting Carole King) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 06:37:27 -0800 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: distortion,pt 2 Randy Remote wrote: > the 1st vocal @1:08-1:12. At :54 there is something that sounds > like a tape edit. There is distortion of the piano @1:47-1:54, > 2:39-2:49, and 3:46-3:55. This is from the stock CD (the only > one I have) > That's it for now, > RR Ok, if you listen to *any* recording that closely, aren't you going to find flaws in it somewhere? And how many people actually listen that closely. And, no offense to you audiophiles but why would you want to? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:26:01 -0800 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: CD Snafus (NJC) I can relate to Deb's CD misfortune. Last year for my birthday a friend gave me a Sarah Vaughan CD. I placed it in the CD player full of anticipation only to hear Ike & Tina Turner. At least they screwed up with other great musicians. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:55:28 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Painting with... WallyK wrote: >Incidentally, I received Joni's "Painting with... etc" today too. I was >wondering if there would any close-ups of jmdlers. Who should I look out >for? Oh, me, Kakki, Jill T., Don S., Marsha, Ken C., Steve J., Wally, Les, Mariana, Pearl, the Mixons and several more. Of course, you have to know what we look like...:) ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:24:20 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: RE: NJC! - Internet long distance No problem! Hope all is well... - --Michael NP: TLC, _CrazySexyCool_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:55:28 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Painting with... WallyK wrote: >Incidentally, I received Joni's "Painting with... etc" today too. I was >wondering if there would any close-ups of jmdlers. Who should I look out >for? Oh, me, Kakki, Jill T., Don S., Marsha, Ken C., Steve J., Wally, Les, Mariana, Pearl, the Mixons and several more. Of course, you have to know what we look like...:) ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:43:25 EST From: Strummed@aol.com Subject: Re: Splendour and Kazan njc Painting with...jc funny thing about communism. a system designed to fail as one of my freinds who was a card carrier at 1 time told me. talk about a system that just doesn't make any sense. Chri$ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:32:56 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: RE: What's Up (NJC)] How about the theme song to " The Jeffersons"? "Movin on Up".............I think that was the title of the song :) Jimmy (I finally got a piece of the pie) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:45:07 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: RE: RE: NJC! - Internet long distance I wrote: <<>> to Heather. Sorry for copying the whole list. A recent hard drive meltdown has left me with an unfamiliar client. My apologies all... - --Michael NP: Queen Latifah, "U.N.I.T.Y." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:23:20 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Splendour and Kazan njc Painting with...jc Chri$ wrote: > funny thing about communism. a system designed to fail as one of my freinds > who was a card carrier at 1 time told me. talk about a system that just > doesn't make any sense. Actually, on paper it seems to make a lot of sense, until you remember to add the human elements, the first of which is greed ... Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:55:18 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: (NJC) Splendour and Kazan njc Painting with...jc Lori writes ... on the shortcomings/failure of communism: >remember to add the human elements, the first of which is greed ... I thought that was, ah, one of the 7 Deadly Sins ... ;-) Don Rowe Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:24:41 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling Kate states: <> I think that it is in fact possible for celebrities to lead a private life, and I think a lot of them do (Joni for instance seems to do a pretty good job of it). However, when a celebrity/public figure does something outrageous, like the three guys you've named above, it's impossible *not* to have an opinion on their actions, don't know whether that's always judging or not... <> Speaking of that movie and the Woodman, it sure is creepy now to watch the opening credits for that film with an animated Woody ogling the oriental girls... Bob NP: Elvis C.,"Tears Before Bedtime" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:05:41 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling What's all this fuss about Hollywood playing basket ball? B'balling is the official sport of March, it even creates a certain kind of madness. And if the actors and directors and cinematographers want to get in on it ... well that's just fine with me. What's that? "Blackballing" ... well that's different. Never mind ... Don Rowe Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:33:00 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - March 26 1983: Joni performs in Brussels, Belgium 1988 article: Today, the Saskatoon StarPhoenix ran an article on Joni, saying: "Mitchell was almost self-effacing about the positive reaction to the new album. 'I think people are ready to like me again - it's time for me to be liked again.'" Read the article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/ss880326.htm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:35:04 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling Paul I wrote: "Speaking of Elia Kazan and Woody Allen, I wonder if anyone remembers the movie "The Front" in which Woody plays a delicatessen cashier who becomes a front for a group of blacklisted television writers? Also a great performance by Zero Mostel." Excellent movie, co-written and produced by formerly blacklisted artists, including actor Zero Mostel. Another great movie on the subject stars (ironically or not) Robert DeNiro in "Guilty by Suspicion" (1991). Somewhere there's a great A&E or Bravo special that interviews many blacklisted artists, including actress Lee Grant who, at age 19, was named a red supporter because she gave a eulogy for a blacklisted writer, and subsequently didn't work in film or TV for something like 15 years. I think her first film after the fog broke was "In the Heat of the Night." Kate in CO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:07:47 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Vocal Recording Techniques ;-) A few of the discussions on recording techniques, and that wonderful bit that surfaced about Joni chasing her cat around with a DAT so she could sample her meow for a song, has brought back a flood of memories of my own early efforts. So, how does a starving, but enterprising youngster get a nice echo effect on backing vocals without having to shell out big bucks for a studio effects unit? Easy ... step one: run microphone cables and speaker wire from your room to the bathroom. Step two: hang the microphone over the shower rod and place the monitor speaker in the tub, facing the tile wall. Step three: sing a few bars and have your pal down the hall tell you if the levels are okay. Step four: assure Mom that you are not tearing up the house. Step five: Sing the song, but not too loud ... you'll get a gnarly feedback if you're not careful. And to think, there are some of you out there wondering what happened on C&S and Blue. Now you know! Don Rowe Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:52:59 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling In a message dated 3/25/99 2:07:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, dgrowe@hotmail.com writes: << What's that? "Blackballing" ... well that's different. Never mind ... >> Actually, it should be referred to as "blacklisting." "Blackballing" is what fraternities and sororities do to prospective members they don't like. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:28:07 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Painting with... I loved Painting With...especially because I recognized Wally Breese. I wonder if there's a more beautiful man on earth. I must admit to you Wally -- and to the rest of humankind, while I'm about it -- that I've always had a gigantic crush on you. Your smile makes Clark Gable's look like a thin-lipped joke. Sorry for the outburst! WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:31:44 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: (NJC) Communism >Actually, on paper it seems to make a lot of sense, until you remember to add >the human elements, the first of which is greed ... > >Lori >San Antonio It does make a lot of sense, and I still wish we could all live in an egalitarian society. I'd sooner die than give anybody the impression that I quit the party because I embraced the "wonders" of capitalism. WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:29:33 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Imaginative Vocal Recording Techniques ;-) Nice post. My candidate for off the wall recording techniques is to find the basement stairwell of a big building (college campuses are very tolerant of starving musicians) and set up there. Most have electrical outlets but long extension chords can be helpfull. Then you have two friends who politely ask people if they can wait til your track is done. I have done this. The reverb of stairwells is fantastic and actually created the same way reverb units work. One can record with the condenser mics on any boom box IN a stairwell. Actually though the best way to do songs is to record everything without any effects but then take your tape to a cheap studio and for 6 dollars an hour they will mix everything WITH the effects. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:36:47 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Vocal Recording Techniques ;-) Actually, one of the songs on The Carpenters' 1st album [All I can Do] was recorded in their parents' bathroom! They used several tape recorders simultaneously to do the overdubbings. WallyK >So, how does a starving, but enterprising youngster get a nice echo >effect on backing vocals > Don Rowe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:47:12 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > How about the theme song to " The Jeffersons"? > "Movin on Up".............I think that was the title of the song :) > > Jimmy > (I finally got a piece of the pie) and "Move On Up" by Curtis Mayfield! RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:47:20 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: distortion,pt 2 Mark or Travis wrote: > Randy Remote wrote: > > > the 1st vocal @1:08-1:12. At :54 there is something that sounds > > like a tape edit. There is distortion of the piano @1:47-1:54, > > 2:39-2:49, and 3:46-3:55. This is from the stock CD (the only > > one I have) > > That's it for now, > > RR > > Ok, if you listen to *any* recording that closely, aren't you going to > find flaws in it somewhere? You might or might not. Seems like quite a few gaffs for one recording, although Joni's acoustic and open style makes these kinds of flaws harder to hide. > And how many people actually listen that > closely. That's the producer and engineers job. > And, no offense to you audiophiles but why would you want to? Actually, I was skeptical of claims made, and wanted to find out for myself. It was enjoyable research, by the way! RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:27:17 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: 7 Deadly Sins (NJC) Don Rowe wrote, of greed: > I thought that was, ah, one of the 7 Deadly Sins ... ;-) That it is ... I recently saw the movie "Seven" for the first time, and so those sins have been on my mind a lot lately. As a blueprint for living, I've been thinking that an attempt to avoid the 7 Deadlies -- here in the order they appeared in the movie: Gluttony, Greed (Covetousness), Sloth, Lust, Pride, Envy, and Wrath (Anger) -- seems to make quite a bit of good sense ... ... although I don't know how practically I can avoid Lust ... as it is spring, afterall! ; ) Lori, thinking that "7 Deadlies" would make a fine name for a band San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:35:58 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling Bob M. wrote: > Speaking of that movie and the Woodman, it sure is creepy now to watch the > opening credits for that film with an animated Woody ogling the oriental > girls... While I was in California recently, a good friend took the time to correct me when I described someone as "Oriental." She told me that "oriental" is an acceptable adjective for a rug, but that the proper term to describe a person's ethinicity is "Asian." My two p.c. cents, Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:44:27 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: recipe book I've talked to Wally, Les, and Marian about printing up The JMDL Recipe Book and selling them as a fundraiser for Wally. I'd like to know if their is enough interest from the group for me to pursue. If you think you might like one (or two, the make great gifts) please let me know. These would no be an actual order, just an indication of how many I need to print up during the first run. The more we print and sell, the more we can help Wally. Also I'd like to have a volunteer for doing a piece of color art for the front cover. I'm going to do them binder style with clear cover and first page color art. Also, what do you think about including the bios? I'd like to NOT include them, but don't want to offend anyone. If most of you think I should keep them in, then I will. Any other ideas for the printing will be greatly appreciated. Jerry np: I Don't Know Where I Stand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:58:45 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: recipe book >I've talked to Wally, Les, and Marian about printing up The JMDL Recipe >Book and selling them as a fundraiser for Wally. I'd like to know if >their is enough interest from the group for me to pursue. Jerry, I think this is a great idea. > Also, what do you think about >including the bios? I'd like to NOT include them, but don't want to >offend anyone. If most of you think I should keep them in, then I will. Maybe many of us would personally like to have them included in our copy, but if the book will be for general public sale on the websites, they should probably be left out. I'm not sure the "outside world" would be all that interested in our little particularities! Maybe we could have two versions. >Any other ideas for the printing will be greatly appreciated. I don't know your specific plans for handling this project but you may want to check out Fundcraft, the company that publishes cookbooks for fundraisers like for the local church, flower club, charity etc., etc. I checked them out about a year ago and the prices seemed pretty inexpensive. Their phone number is 1-800-853-1363. They also have a website at http://www.cookbooks.com Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:58:21 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: recipe book Jerry wrote: > I've talked to Wally, Les, and Marian about printing up The JMDL Recipe > Book and selling them as a fundraiser for Wally. I'd like to know if > their is enough interest from the group for me to pursue. If you think > you might like one (or two, the make great gifts) please let me know. Wonderful idea! Count me in for at least one copy, possibly more. > Also, what do you think about > including the bios? I'd like to NOT include them, but don't want to > offend anyone. No offense taken here, but one option might be to include the bios in a separate section in the back of the book, instead of along with each recipe. Lori, messin' around at work ... San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:10:25 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling Kate in CO asked: > Can public figures/artists lead > lives separate from their work? Is it fair to judge Bill Clinton, or > Michael Jackson, or Woody Allen, or [fill in the blank]? I don't know if public figures/artists can lead lives separate from their work. However, it would seem to be obvious that (unless you're selected for jury duty in some trial) it's unfair to attempt to judge any public figure or artist, since -- aside from being intimately familiar with such person -- it is impossible to know their entire story. And then there's the fact that every story has at least two sides ... Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:12:22 -0800 From: "Davina Greenstein" Subject: Re: recipe book >I've talked to Wally, Les, and Marian about printing up The JMDL Recipe >Book and selling them as a fundraiser for Wally. I'd like to know if >their is enough interest from the group for me to pursue. Great idear Jerry. I would buy at least three! Best, Davina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:21:03 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: NJC: H'wood b'balling <> Thanks for the pc update, Lori! Do they plan to update Monopoly so that it has "Asian Ave."? ;~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:34:16 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: NJC: H'wood b'balling Bob M. wrote: > Thanks for the pc update, Lori! Do they plan to update Monopoly so > that it has "Asian Ave."? ;~) No, because I think that Oriential Avenue is where one goes to purchase Oriental rugs for the lobby of one's hotel on Park Place. ; ) Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:52:03 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Kazan and causes... Thanks to those who answered my query... it made more sense but I think it demonstrated the 'show' that is Hollywood. I think there's nothing wrong with having a cause... but... the man was honoured for a lifetime achievement award for his work in 'movies' not a Nobel Peace prize! I adore Kazan's movies and I really feel that he deserved recognition for his contribution to movie making. I also now in retrospect think it's 'cute' (couldn't think of a better word) that Kazan was flanked by De Niro and Scorcese... very reminiscent of Mafia hoodlums!! Especially with De Niro's haircut! Perhaps it was a subtle Taxi Driver message... you talking to him? You talking to him? (Another words, you better or I'll bust a cap up your ass!) Hollywood is good at playing concerned. I too, think it's amusing, that Jewison received a resounding standing ovation at his plea to young movie makers... Hollywood to me is about glamour. Oh well, I watched it for the fun... not for moving political and social statements it was bound not to make :-) Vanessa feeling very blah due to our bizarre weather... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:11:47 PST From: "Angela Takats" Subject: WOW - Painting with words and music Hi Listers, I have just finished watching my very own copy of PWWAM - WOW. What a magical experience. I can't believe some of you lucky listers were actually there, bet you couldn't believe it either as u sat in awe of joni. I loved the intimacy of the stage setting, with her beautiful art work all around, and those gorgeous big friendly couches and cushions. This video is sooo special to me, as it is the first joni concert i have ever seen, so it was all new and exciting. How gorgeous did she look!! There's something so peaceful about her presence on stage, she looks so comfortable up there. I loved the little explanations she gave inbetween songs, and her little anecdotes...her giggles and smiles, the way she interacts with the band and audience...love when she forgets the verse to "Song for Sharon" and calls on the audience for help - so was it one of u listers that helped her out??? very proud of whoever that was - what a thrill! Her voice sounds great - there's something very wise and reassuring about it, almost motherly. I love her constant smiles throughout "facelift", love the little dance she does during one of the bluesy songs. LOVE HER - (oh, that's rather unhealthy isn't it....but, even as a woman, i can see why men just fall at her feet...she's someone i just can't help but worship...oh, i'm scaring myself now, but it's true) So who was invited to the concert? Were there tickets on sale? or was it a private "do"? Can someone tell me why Nash had an English kind of accent?? or was that my imagination? As for the quality of the recording - which i know several listers have commented on - her voice didn't seem to be loud enough on my copy, like someone had pushed the levels of the instruments way over her mic levels?? anyone? So glad to finally have joni on video tape and to have experienced such a wonderful concert. Thoughts from Ange NP - America, "A horse with no name" Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:17:33 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: recipe book In a message dated 3/25/99 4:44:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << These would no be an actual order, just an indication of how many I need to print up during the first run. The more we print and sell, the more we can help Wally. Also I'd like to have a volunteer for doing a piece of color art for the front cover. I'm going to do them binder style with clear cover and first page color art. Also, what do you think about including the bios? I'd like to NOT include them, but don't want to offend anyone. >> Depending on the price, I would be interested in one or two copies. As for the bios, I see no reason to include them, at least at the length they were posted. A much shortened bio that would fit on the same page as the recipe, with name, hometown and favorite Joni album and song would seem to me to be enough of a "bio" to accompany the recipe. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:45:14 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Splendour and Kazan njc Painting with...jc The failure of communism was not "greed". The failure of communism was that the economic basis upon which it was founded was literally bogus. The system did not allow for greed ("enlightened self interest" as Adam Smith once put it) and as such the collectivist model allowed for no creation of fresh capital (profits). As such as the economy grew the only capital that existed was that which existed under the czar. This is why Russia has no capital today. They didnt make any "new" money. The only capital Russia "created" was the raw materials they ripped off from the countries they invaded. Just for the record. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:32:37 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: MP3 of Stormy Weather Hey everybody- A lot of people have been asking me about the MP3 of Joni performing at Stormy Weather. I was unable to encode the CD track because the CD is an enhanced CD, that is, it contains AT&T's WorldNet service installer, so my encoder I'm using couldn't do it. Does anybody know of a Windows mpeg importer that can do enhanced CDs? Please let me know. Anyhow, the CD track will be on the next tape tree. Best, Mark NP-Cotton Avenue ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 01:15:58 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: The Painted iD - April Shows THE PAINTED ID MIXES MUSIC AND ART AT APRIL SHOWS Who: Fox Street Records recording artists "The Painted iD". What: The Painted iD will be performing their mixture of music and art at venues in Ventura and the L.A. area during the month of April to promote their new, self-titled CD release. Each show will feature The Painted iD's brand of original, smoothly melodic, slightly alternative folk-rock, and audience members participating in a group painting. Easel, canvas, brushes, paint and soundtrack will be provided. When / Where: Saturday, April 3, 9:00pm to 11:00pm Borders Books and Music - 1600 S. Azusa Avenue, City of Industry, CA - Phone: (626) 913-9344 Thursday, April 15, 7:30pm to 10:30pm Cafe Voltaire - 34 N. Palm, Ventura, CA - Phone: (805) 641-1743 Saturday, April 17, 7:00pm to 9:30pm Garden Village Cafe - 40 Day Road, Ventura, CA - Phone: (805) 642-4015 also appearing - Lisa Johnson Friday, April 23, 8:00pm to 10:00pm Borders Books and Music - 330 S. La Cienega Blvd, Los Angeles, CA - Phone: (310) 659-4045 How: All of these performances will be acoustic, in order to feature song structure and melody. For more information, Please contact: Peter De Baets Fox Street Records 3875 Telegraph Rd. #A181 Ventura, CA 93003 USA E-mail: pdebaets@compuserve.com Phone: (310) 388-1015 Visit The Painted iD on the web at http://www.thepaintedid.com/ http://www.mp3.com/thepaintedid - mp3 music ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:36:36 -0700 From: Brett Code Subject: A Lurker Returns (njc) Hi everyone, I've been on a month-long vacation to Ghana, London and Paris. Good weather and good fun and a nice release from a stressful period. I hope you've all been getting along - I look forward to reading your posts and singing along when it seems right. Brett, who sang 'All I want' at least 500 times over the past month, both out loud and to himself ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:33:15 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Splendour and Kazan njc Painting with...jc Marcel wrote: > The failure of communism was not "greed". The failure of communism was that > the economic basis upon which it was founded was literally bogus. The system > did not allow for greed ("enlightened self interest" as Adam Smith once put > it) and as such the collectivist model allowed for no creation of fresh > capital (profits). Perhaps, then, the failure of Communism has been its inherent lack of greed? When I was in my senior year of high school, my American Government teacher was a native of China, and it was from her that I learned about the impracticality of Communism due to the human failing, greed. I tried again and again to argue Marxist theory with her, but her consistent response was that I didn't know what I was talking about unless I -- like she -- had actually lived it. Although the system itself does not "allow" for greed, because the system is human-governed, greed (and its cousin, corruption) did and does exist within Communist economies. It still seems to me -- at least on paper -- that a Communist (communal) society could succeed if it was insular, self-sustaining, and truly a system of sharing. But as soon as the concepts of "mine" and "more" are introduced and allowed to flourish, the system will fail. FWIW, Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:56:23 -0800 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: > I think that it is in fact possible for celebrities to lead a private > life, and I think a lot of them do (Joni for instance seems to do a > pretty good job of it). However, when a celebrity/public figure does > something outrageous, like the three guys you've named above, it's > impossible *not* to have an opinion on their actions, don't know whether > that's always judging or not... My question is should their private lives have anything to do with how we judge them as artists? Kazan was being honored for his work in film which is undeniably deserving of recognition. Does his testimony before the HUAC detract from the films he made? Is he less deserving of recognition for the excellence of his art because of some moral judgement that is passed on him by his peers or society or what have you? Should Michael Jackson fans burn their copies of 'Thriller' or should the movie-going public boycott Woody Allen's movies? I don't know what the answer is. I certainly don't like what Kazan or Allen did or what Jackson was accused of doing. But does that mean I can't like their art? Mark in Seattle wondering ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:01:54 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: (NJC) Splendour and Kazan njc Painting with...jc what do you mean? what happened to moscow? This is why Russia has no capital >today. marcel. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:00:33 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling Bob wrote: Even more creepy (not sure if it's true, and don't remember where I heard it, but anyway...) is a scene in a New York department store with Woody Allen and his new wife. She's trying on clothes, and as she models them for him, asks "What do you think of this one, Daddy?" Possibly not the most appropriate of endearments, under the circumstances! Helen - -----Original Message----- From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com To: joni@smoe.org ; Kate Tarasenko Date: Friday, 26 March 1999 07:01 Subject: Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling >Kate states: > ><debate: Can public figures/artists lead lives separate from their work? >Is it fair to judge Bill Clinton, or Michael Jackson, or Woody Allen, or >[fill in the blank]?>> > >I think that it is in fact possible for celebrities to lead a private >life, and I think a lot of them do (Joni for instance seems to do a >pretty good job of it). However, when a celebrity/public figure does >something outrageous, like the three guys you've named above, it's >impossible *not* to have an opinion on their actions, don't know whether >that's always judging or not... > ><> > >Speaking of that movie and the Woodman, it sure is creepy now to watch the >opening credits for that film with an animated Woody ogling the oriental >girls... > >Bob > >NP: Elvis C.,"Tears Before Bedtime" > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:05:54 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: recipe book Great idea! I'd buy two or three, depending on price. As to the bios, I don't want to embarrass myself before the whole Internet community, so edit me down to an info-nugget! Paul's idea of a bio looks good to me. WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:15:13 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: WOW - Painting with words and music Ange wrote: I haven't actually seen the video yet (on order - should arrive next week!), but if you're talking about Graham Nash, then the reason he has an English accent is that he was born in Blackpool in 1942, and emigrated to the US in December 1968, shortly after splitting from the Hollies. Of course if you're NOT talking about Graham Nash, then I have no idea! Helen - taking a huge stab in the dark! NP - Otis Redding - the definitive collection ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:18:22 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Vocal Recording Techniques ;-) Wally K wrote: >Actually, one of the songs on The Carpenters' 1st album [All I can Do] was >recorded in their parents' bathroom! They used several tape recorders >simultaneously to do the overdubbings. > and Don wrote: > >>So, how does a starving, but enterprising youngster get a nice echo >>effect on backing vocals > >Don Rowe > Dusty Springfield also used to record in the corridors and bathrooms, because the sound booths were so well insulated, she couldn't get any resonance, or depth into the recording. I have a great interview on video where she describes the cleaners finding them in the toilets at 6.00 in the morning, trying to record vocals! Helen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:25:23 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: recipe book Count me in for buying a cookbook. I agree that the bios should be pared down a bit. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:38:04 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "UP-lifting titles "Build Me Up Buttercup"- author unknown "Up Yours" Ice T (a joke, eh?) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:32:16 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: "UP- the DOWN staircase In a message dated 3/25/99 10:42:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << "Build Me Up Buttercup"- author unknown "Up Yours" Ice T (a joke, eh?) >> My guess is we're pretty close to exhausting the UPs, so I'll start DOWN on the scale with: "The Lamb Lies Down on Bradway" -- Genesis "Down to You" - Joni "Downtown" -- Petula Clark "Down on Me " -- Janis Joplin "Further on Down the Road" -- Van Morrison "Pre-Road Downs" -- CSN (be sure to hide the roaches) Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:03:00 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Blacklisting depicted in films A pretty important part of the Streisand/Redford "The Way We Were" concerns a fictionalized blacklisting, I just don't remember which of the characters, hers or his, is victimized. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:16:02 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Neil Young's "Sweet Joni"... From: "Davina Greenstein" Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:04:38 -0800 Okay, it's true...I'm on a Neil Young/Joni kick right now. Does any one know where a copy of this Neil song can be found? Here are the lyrics: SWEET JONI - ---------- Sweet Joni from Saskatoon There's a ring for your finger It looks like the sun But it feels like the moon Sweet Joni from Saskatoon Don't go, don't go too soon. Who lives in an old hotel, Near the ancient ruins. Only time can tell, Time can tell. Go easy, the doorman said The floor is slippery, So watch your head. This message read. Sweet Joni from Saskatoon There's a ring for your finger It shines like the sun But it feels like the moon. Sweet Joni from Saskatoon Don't go, don't go too soon. Thanks! Davina np...Neil...Old Man ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:44:40 -0600 From: "Jeffery W. Osborne" Subject: Re: WOW - Painting with words and music Greetings All Dear Peoples, Is it true that Joni and Graham Nash were a serious item at one time? Do we know? During the 70's I heard only third-hand tidbits, and I admired them both so much that it was a sweet notion. Jeffo NP: 'The Tree Knows Everything' Adam F ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:18:37 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Wally B mentioned NJC From: "Wally Kairuz" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 03:12:17 -0300 I've just "discovered" a Carole King page, and its owner [Bob] tells that his inspiration for creating the website was "Wally B's Joni Mitchell Website". Good for you, W. WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:32:42 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: "UP- the DOWN staircase IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > My guess is we're pretty close to exhausting the UPs, so I'll start DOWN on > the scale with: > "The Lamb Lies Down on Bradway" -- Genesis > "Down to You" - Joni > "Downtown" -- Petula Clark > "Down on Me " -- Janis Joplin > "Further on Down the Road" -- Van Morrison > "Pre-Road Downs" -- CSN (be sure to hide the roaches) > > Paul I I'm DOWN with that! I'm Down-Beatles Down In The Boondocks-(?) Nobody Loves You When You're Down and Out-John Lennon Down On the Corner-Creedence Down To The Wire-Neil Young Down In the Flood-Bob Dylan Going Down the Road Feeling Bad-trad, G.Dead Down To The Nightclub-(?) Don't Let Me Down-Beatles Don't Let Me Down Again-Buckingham Nicks Don't Bring Me Down-Animals When The Whip Comes Down-Stones Sunday Morning Comin' Down-Kris Kristofferson Downtown-Neil Young RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:03:11 +0800 (PST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > Speaking of Elia Kazan and Woody Allen, I wonder if anyone remembers the movie > "The Front" in which Woody plays a delicatessen cashier who becomes a front > for a group of blacklisted television writers? Also a great performance by > Zero Mostel. > ... and a fabulous performance from cabaret singer Andrea Marcovicci. Great film! (One of those films where Woody acted in a film he did not direct). Joseph (considers CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS as Woody's greatest film) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:14:05 +0800 (PST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: NJC: H'wood b'balling On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Kate Tarasenko wrote: > interesting (though perennial) debate: Can public figures/artists lead > lives separate from their work? Is it fair to judge Bill Clinton, or > Michael Jackson, or Woody Allen, or [fill in the blank]? > Interesting that this was mentioned. The reason I am such a Woody Allen fan was because despite his problems then, he was still able to do a great film like CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS -- which I consider to be a work of a brilliant director. Although I admired the film, his filmmaking, I was not born yesterday either. I completely did not agree with his "alleged" molestation of his kids (biological or otherwise). Its just that when I watch his films, I see a work of a genius and not try to drag other things. I know it may sound unreal, but I also did not like Nina Simone's tirades against people like Dusty Springfield or even Quincy Jones, but when I listen to her music, I drawn to her magical voice. As for Elia Kazan, I watched and adored his A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE, but I was drawn to the characters of Blanche Du Bois and Stanley Kowalski more rather than his approach at filmmaking. Although my favorite singer Eartha Kitt and even Lena Horne were said to be casualties of the blacklisting, too. Joseph (Soprano Renee Fleming plays Blance DuBois in the upcoming opera A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #130 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! 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