From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #129 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, March 25 1999 Volume 04 : Number 129 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- CD Snafus (NJC) ["Deb Messling" ] NJC Sugar Mountain, Chaka, Whitney, Mariah, Kazan ["Tube" ] Re: NJC! - Internet long distance [Jerry Notaro ] What's Up (njc) [evian ] new "Stormy Weather" CD [jamurray@colby.edu (James A. Murray)] oscars (njc) [evian ] This Month in Joni History - late March [This Month in Joni History ] NJC-stereo equipment website [Randy Remote ] distortion-it's real [Randy Remote ] Nick Nolte/Political Actors (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] RE: dance at the oscars (njc) [patrick leader ] Re: What's Up (NJC)] [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: NJC Sugar Mountain, Chaka, Whitney, Mariah, Kazan ["Steve Garrison" <] NJC:Blacklisting:HUAC [MGVal@aol.com] Re: What's Up (NJC)] [Scott and Jody ] RE: NJC! - Internet long distance [luvart@snet.net] Re: What's Up (NJC)] [Ginamu@aol.com] 'Up' songs (NJC) [Brian Gross ] Re: What's Up (NJC)] [Scott and Jody ] NJC [The Humphreys ] Re: 'Up' songs (NJC) [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: What's Up (NJC)] [Mark or Travis ] Re: Nick Nolte/Political Actors (NJC) [Mark or Travis ] Splendour and Kazan njc Painting with...jc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Viva Italy! ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: What's Up (NJC)] [Ginamu@aol.com] bot response #16 ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Nick Nolte/Political Actors (NJC) [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: What's Up (NJC)] [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: What's Up (NJC)] [RMuRocks@aol.com] Distortion on Blue, C&S ...Long ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] What's up? [Dflahm@aol.com] RE: What's Up (NJC)] [Janet Hess ] Stormy Weather CD [Seanapper@aol.com] Re: Distortion on Blue [Scott Price ] NJC KAZAN ["Gene Mock" ] distortion,pt 2 [Randy Remote ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:41:13 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: CD Snafus (NJC) My library owns a copy of the CD "Teaser and the Firecat" by Cat Stevens, except that it isn't. It's some rock band I don't recognize. How often does this happen? I've never run into it before. Deb Messling ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:41:52 +0100 From: "Tube" Subject: NJC Sugar Mountain, Chaka, Whitney, Mariah, Kazan At school (US; 'High' School) in England my best friend was seriously into what we used to call 'Country Rock' here - CSNY, Ronstadt, Joni, early Eagles, late Byrds etc. He influenced me some, but mostly all I liked was the solo Stills stuff, and not all of that, and the heavier or more commercial CSNY stuff. But mostly I'm an ignoramus on it all in spite of my friend's urgings. I did buy the single of Heart of Gold though. (my dad liked it too - we went halves on a secondhand copy! Serious Neil Young fans or what?) Ironically though I always played the B-side of that single, Sugar Mountain, far more than the A-side. It's another of those mystery glitch recordings though - Somebody coughs at the end of it - is it a live recording, or studio, and if studio, why was the cough left in - Because it was the best take? Yeah, Chaka Khan, right on! 'I'm Every Woman', like Sister Sledge's 'We are Family' tends to get re-released every couple of years after a remix. I think 'Family has been done four times, and 'Woman three. Uncharacteristically for me (who usually prefers the original version of anything) I prefer the second 'Woman, and the third 'Family. I had both of the original albums though (actually bought them NEW, for a change!) (Visit Tube's Record Shack - Highest Prices Paid For Funky Music!!) Did I ever tell you I actually met Sister Sledge (three of 'em anyway, with their mum) Speaking of Mariah and Whitney warbling, much as I think that Whitney can wipe the floor with that upstart Carey (They don't call it Houston Control for nothing!), I have a tale to tell in defence of the Great White Warbler - Here in Italy last month there was a national song-contest on TV - It's a mega event here, (like the Eurovision in the UK, except the Italians take it too seriously whereas the English know that Eurovision is a cheesy farce). Anyway, during the two intermissions in the three-hour show, the two guest singers for each spot were respectively Alannis Morrisette, and Mariah Carey. In a word, these two blew the show away. I've never liked Carey or given her music a serious listen - (if she comes on the radio I usually switch channels!), but seriously guys, she was amazing, when framed in the context of the local singers. Italian singers are just shmaltzy plagiarising bullshitters and the real professionalism and star quality of Carey and Morrisette really showed them up. It made for an odd show - Somebody in production must have thought the transatlantic guests would push up the stature of the occasion, if not the TV ratings - in reality, it showed the amateur cheesiness up more than ever! And I don't think Alannis and Mariah will be on speaking terms with their respective agents for a while either - It was kind of demeaning to them to appear on such a crap show. They weren't even treated well - When Mariah finished her number and tried to exit to stage left, the presenter physically turned her around to send her off to the right instead. What a nerve he had! WHO DID HE THINK HE WAS DEALING WITH?! Heck any TV presenter worth his salt should have let Mariah Carey walk off any damn way she wanted to! Maybe she'd been prima-donna-ish in rehearsals and he was getting revenge, but knowing how the Italians can be, I can imagine Mariah getting pissed at them. I would too. I hope Alannis and Morrisette got good fees, but otherwise I can't see that appearing on this show would have advanced their careers any - They were most definitely doing the Italians a BIG favour. Incidentally, here comes my out of touch ignorance again, but has Mariah had or is having a baby? She looked kind of, well, overweight, inspite of wearing a very cleverly designed asymetrical cut-away dress to obviously hide this. I don't know what she sang, but it was terrific, and I'd know it if I heard it again. Suggestions anybody? I might even buy it (curses, what am I saying?! Buying Mariah Carey CDs now?) >The "Kazan controversy": Elia Kazan, famous film director of >such movies as "Streetcar Named Desire", etc... Thanks Randy for filling me in. I know about the McCarthy witchhunts and also of Kazan's work (Streetcar is one of my favourite films), but you summarised it in a beautifully concise manner - Are you a professional writer? You should be a journalist. I did not however know that Kazan had named names back then, or of this recent development at the Oscars - It's very interesting. Who else didn't clap? I like Nick Nolte tremendously, though at times I feel he takes himself a little too seriously, so I can well imagine him taking this kind of stand. I prefer him playing the 'thinking-man's Rambo' kind of character in stuff like Dog Soldiers, or the corrupt senior cop in Q&A, rather than the 'sensitive new man' roles he's taken lately, as in Prince of Tides and Lorenzo's Oil. In public life, Nolte always seems to carry himself as 'the grand elder statesman of movies', as does Harrison Ford, who I also like, but I wish these guys would lighten up a little and remember that they are entertainers and not politicians. Heck, Clinton could pull a funnier stand-up routine than either of them (as Monica would be the first to admit). Not that I don't agree with Nolte on this - he was right not to clap, but he's still a bit of a posturing lightweight in my book. I just wondered who else of the Pre-Reagan, Pre-BratPack, heavyweight movie generation had also not clapped. Beatty? Nicholson? MacLaine? Scorsese? Fonda? Gosh who else is still alive that has a credible canon of movies under their belt. Not many huh? Pity John Cassavettes isn't still alive - Now there's a Hollywood figure I REALLY respected. Don't worry, the Lifetime Achievement Oscar is only a piece of shlop anyway - it's a relatively new category, awarded to people who missed awards by a hair's whisker in their prime but gave a lot of pleasure to a lot of people anyway and who are now about ready to peg out anyway. it's just a showbusiness gesture, frivolous, yes, but then so is the whole Academy Award thing anyway. Great fun though. An strange choice with Kazan though - "What did you achieve in your lifetime in Hollywood Mr Kazan?" "Oh, y'know, the usual stuff, got several of my colleaugues government blacklisted so they'd never work again in this town, that kind of thing y'know." Tube (who uses too many brackets and not enough JC and can't for the life of me remember how to spell colleagues). (maybe I've never known) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:37:28 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: CD Snafus (NJC) Deb said: <> Deb, are you saying that the CD itself shows that it's "Teaser" but when you play it it's something else? That's really weird. I've had a couple of library CD's where the wrong CD is in the jewel box, but I've never seen a CD that didn't have on it what it was supposed to. Maybe it's a collector's item worth a jillion bucks! Bob NP: Joan Osborne "Raglan Road" from "Tears of Stone". Bought this one last night along with The Roots and Beth Orton. On first listen, it's typical Chieftains sound, a very pretty record. Funny, only two of the artists performing do their own songs, Joni & Akiko Yano, and the latter is a composition with Paddy Maloney. Most of the songs are traditional songs arranged by Maloney - I wish Joni had taken this route instead of putting out "Magdalene" again. It's a powerful, moving song, but frankly, I've heard it *SO* much it doesn't pack a punch for me anymore. It would be more thrilling to hear her tackle one of these traditional songs. On the other hand, it's a good way to expose the song to a host of others who don't have TI, the trees, etc, and after all, it *IS* a dang good song! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:16:09 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: NJC! - Internet long distance Hi everyone! I don't make a habit at doing this but the following looked important. Does anyone have any insight on this? Thanks! Heather Subject: CNN Report!!! READ ASAP! Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 6:56 PM Subject: CNN News Report.... CNN reported that in the next two weeks, Congress is going to vote on allowing telephone companies to charge for Internet access. That means, every time we make a long distance e-mail we will receive a long distance charge. This will get costly. Please visit the following web site AND complain. Complain to your Congressman. Don't allow this to pass. http://www.house.gov/writerep. Pass this on to your friends. It is urgent. I hope all of you will pass this on to all your friends and family. All of us have an interest in this one. PLEASE FORWARD TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW TODAY, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:22:20 -0800 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: CD Snafus (NJC) Deb Messling wrote: > > My library owns a copy of the CD "Teaser and the Firecat" by Cat > Stevens, except that it isn't. It's some rock band I don't > recognize. How often does this happen? I've never run into it > before. > > Deb Messling > > > I have a cd that came in a jewel box with the booklet for Carly Simon's 'Hotcakes' and the graphics on the cd itself even identify it as Carly Simon's 'Hotcakes'. But the music recorded on the disk is Frank Sinatra. Go figure. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:43:42 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC! - Internet long distance Not a lick of truth to it. Has been circulating the internet for years. Just another urban myth. Jerry np: Moon At The Window (live) luvart@snet.net wrote: > Hi everyone! > I don't make a habit at doing this but the following looked important. > Does anyone have any insight on this? > Thanks! > Heather > > Subject: CNN Report!!! READ ASAP! > > Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 6:56 PM > Subject: CNN News Report.... > > CNN reported that in the next two weeks, Congress is going to vote on > allowing telephone > companies to charge for Internet access. That means, every time we make > a long distance e-mail we > will receive a long distance charge. This will get costly. Please > visit the following web site AND > complain. Complain to your Congressman. Don't allow this to pass. > http://www.house.gov/writerep. Pass this on to your friends. It is > urgent. I hope all of you will pass > this on to all your friends and family. All of us have an interest in > this one. PLEASE FORWARD > TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW TODAY, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:00:54 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: NJC! - Internet long distance Heather asked: <<>> About this: <<>> As resident JMDL mole in the House of Representatives, I write to tell you all that this is 100% untrue. There are absolutely no plans to vote on any such legislation at any point in the forseeable future. Unfortunately, this false report has been circulating the internet for about five months now. I encourage anyone who receives this message to notify the sender that it is incorrect. You are right to be skeptical of your lawmakers, but in this case you can rest easy. - --Michael NP: Toad the Wet Sprocket, _Fear_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:31:50 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC! - Internet long distance In a message dated 3/24/99 9:19:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, luvart@snet.net writes: << Subject: CNN Report!!! READ ASAP! >> It's a hoax and it's going around. Just disregard it. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:57:18 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC Sugar Mountain, Chaka, Whitney, Mariah, Kazan Tube wrote: >I did not however know that Kazan had named names back then, or of this >recent development at the Oscars - It's very interesting. I heard a news report yesterday that Kazan intially refuse to name names before the government. He was subpoened (?) to testify a second time and at that point confirmed names the government already knew. He then took out a full page ad in the newspaper explaining that he had searched his conscience and basically felt he and others had been wrong to support communism in light of Stalin's atrocities and the totalitarian repression of it all. One can look at this in many ways, I guess. >Who else didn't clap? Ed Harris was the only other one I saw on camera. I was surprised at how many gave Kazan a standing ovation. The buzz before the show seemed to be that most everyone was going to protest his award. It wasn't like that ultimately. I think this is why the show seemed a little bland to some - many people in the show and audience were actually uptight anticipating what would happen when the award was presented. I agree with you about Nolte. >Pre-Reagan, Pre-BratPack, heavyweight movie generation had also not clapped. >Beatty? Nicholson? MacLaine? Scorsese? Fonda? Beatty has been Kazan's most vociferous supporter in this controversy. He reveres Kazan and creidt him with everything he knows about acting and movies. I think Beatty got his big break in "Splendour in the Grass." My question about the blacklisting - wasn't it the Hollywood studios and related machinery who blacklisted the people rather than the government? I don't think it's possible for government to blacklist someone from employment. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:12:17 -0000 From: "dianne schofield" Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] Can't Give It Up-Carly Simon-on Spoiled Girl cd - -----Original Message----- From: Kakki To: joni@smoe.org Date: 24 March 1999 02:39 Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] >Start Me Up/Rolling Stones > >Uptown Girl/Billy Joel > >Got to Give it Up/Marvin Gaye > >Kakki > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:19:27 -0600 From: evian Subject: What's Up (njc) > In a message dated 3/23/99 9:40:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net > writes: > > << Got to Give it Up/Marvin Gaye >> > > Give It Up -- Bonnie Raitt > > Paul I > "Up from your Life" -- James Taylor Evian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:31:56 -0500 From: jamurray@colby.edu (James A. Murray) Subject: new "Stormy Weather" CD Malujoja@aol.com wrote: >I'm new to the list, and I was just wondering if any of you are familiar with >the new "Stormy Weather" CD being distributed by AT&T... I just got my hands >on one yesterday. It's a compilation of standards recorded live at the Wiltern >Theater here in LA last year. I remember reading about the event (It was a >benefit concert for the Walden Woods Project), but I had no idea it was being >recorded for distribution! It features one song apiece from Paula Cole, Shawn >Covin, Bjork, Sheryl Crow, Stevie Nicks, Gwen Stefani, Trisha Yearwood, Sandra >Bernhard, Natalie Cole, and, of course, the incomparable Joni on the title >track. Matt, and anyone else, Can you tell me where I can get a copy of this? Please reply off-list to jamurray@colby.edu. Also, does anyone have an opinion of the album Jazz Takes on Joni Mitchell by David Lahm? Glad to see Mr. Lahm is on the list! thanks, jimbo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:28:21 -0600 From: evian Subject: oscars (njc) > I was also non plussed by the dance debacle! It meant 'nothing' to me. > I felt that it was pure fluff and that the choreographer really didn't > do the music justice. The dancers just showed off their snazziest moves > and ass cheeks! > Hate to post a "me too" post, but damn... me too! I didn't know what the hell that dance number was supposed to represent. It had nothing to do with the music at all... but then again, what the hell do I know? However, I liked Debbie Allen's work on "Fame"... loved how they all just broke into song and dance in the middle of the cafeteria...LOL! As for Celine, she is perfect for the Oscars. I find it interesting how people can say she is the anti-Christ of music in one breath, and then rave over Streisand the next. I dunno, maybe it is just me, but I think she is a pretty good "Steisand-esque" type of performer. Neither are really my cup of tea, but I do love Steisand's "Guilty" (a guilty pleasure in my collection), and Celine's "If you asked me to" is one damn good song. Evian np: I am copying classic DJ Bob again and listening to "Tim" -- The Replacements. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:32:00 -0700 From: This Month in Joni History Subject: This Month in Joni History - late March 1988: Joni holds a press conference in Saskatoon at the Bessborough Hotel. MacLean's magazine's next issue featured an article about the event, saying "It has been 24 years since Joni Mitchell left Saskatoon and eventually arrived on the coffeehouse circuit in Toronto's Yorkville district. And although she has returned occasionally from her home in Los Angeles to visit her parents, last week was different. Under the glare of the media spotlight, Mitchell was back in Saskatoon for a triumphant homecoming." Read the entire article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/ml880404.htm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:44:12 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: distortion-it's real Let me preface the following by saying that I think Joni's albums are beautifully engineered and produced, and stand as landmarks of sonic artistry. The minor glitches noted are unfortunate, and for the most part, almost undetectable. Having said that, I listened critically to the following songs. On C&S: "Court and Spark", "Help Me", "Car On the Hill", "Down To You" (HDCD and stock issue CD's) On Blue: "This Flight Tonight", "Blue", "All I Want", "River" (stock issue CD and orig. vinyl) On C&S: Detectable distortion can be heard on the last few seconds of the song "Court and Spark" @ 2:38 on both the HDCD and stock. "Help Me"-no problems detected. "Car On The Hill" has detectable distortion @:17 "said he'd ^^ be over 3 hrs ago" (very subtle, had to play it over a few times to hear it), and again during the vocal chorus between verses @1:05-1:20. This one is more obvious, and affects the electric guitar a bit @1:20. John Mitchell on 3/15 pointed this one out, and it was verified by Jim L'Hommedieu. Yes, you guys were right! "Down To You" the piano track is slightly distorted throughout. You can hear it best near the end of the orchestral break, when the solo piano comes in @4:12-4:19 The above glitches were heard on both the HDCD and stock versions, in exactly the same spots. Since the HDCD version was digitally remastered, it's inconceivable that it would be incorrectly mastered twice, therefore, the distortion was introduced either during tracking or final mixing. My guess is during tracking for "Down To You", final mixing for the rest. Incidently, Bernie Grundman, considered THE best mastering engineer in the business, did the original mastering for C&S. On "Blue": I'm responding to Howard Wright's post of 3/23. the "obvious glitch" on the last chorus of "This Flight Tonight" "Starbright, you got the lovin'" @2:21 ^^ I don't hear this one. The "crackles" during "sometimes I think love is just mythical" @1:13 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ and @1:31 "starbright, you got the lovin'" ^^^^^^^^^^^ are apparent on both the stock CD and the original vinyl. They do not sound like mastering mistakes because the guitar sound is not affected by it. Almost sounds like there was a little 'burp' in the power line or a faulty tube or something on the vocal track. "Blue" "needles guns and grass" sounds OK to me These lines are probably pushing the meter, but any distortion must be very subtle, and not objectionable. "All I Want" second rep. of "All I really really want our.." also sounds OK to me, however, at the very beginning of the song, the attack of the dulcimer is clipped on the stock CD. This sounds like sloppy work on the part of whoever prepared the master for replication. Let's hope they fixed it for the new DCC version. "River" final line "I wish I had a river, I could skate awaaay ^^^ on"@3:12. This is not a glitch, it is a deliberate vocal rasp Joni sings. To hear these, I recommend a good set of headphones. Also, I must say that the stock copy of "Blue" sounds pretty damn good! If the new DCC version is better, all I can say is "wow"! And one more off the subject thing, since people were discussing bass players, let me put in my admiration for Max Bennett's work on C&S. During "Help Me" and elsewhere his playing really shines with a blend of grace, virtuousity and understatement. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:47:50 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: NJC-stereo equipment website the following website has information on stereo and home theater systems, product reviews, etc. Geared toward both beginners and advanced. Had an interesting article on the quality of MP3 versus CD (no comparison, MP3, a compressed digital format is vastly inferior, according to the author). http://www.audiocafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:08:39 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: distortion-it's real on my last post, the little arrows under the lines containing glitches did not stay in the right place after posting. The timings are correct, though. Sorry 'bout that RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:14:31 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Nick Nolte/Political Actors (NJC) Tube said: <> Actually Tube, the last couple of films he's done are much better than the sensitive stuff that I agree is not as suited to him. In a more recent film, two years ago, (I forget the title, but Julie Christie was nominated for an Oscar in it), he was excellent as a repairman who's cheating on his wife, played by Julie. I haven't seen Affliction, but he's supposed to be great in that as well. But now why shouldn't actors be allowed to express themselves politically? I know it gets sorta screwy sometimes, with Ms. LittleFeather accepting for George C. Scott who was protesting, or some of the other stuff, but on the other hand, celebrities who can take advantage of their position to push a good cause is to me like rockers doing concerts against Nukes, Apartheid, etc. I find it worse when they're oblivious and unconcerned about what's going on around them... Bob NP: Beth Orton, "So Much More" (This along with the new XTC is definitely the best stuff I've heard so far in '99) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:19:53 -0500 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: dance at the oscars (njc) the dance number was really stupid, and it's a shame, because they were major dancers. desmond richardson, the beautiful black modern dancer is one of the biggest stars to ever dance with alvin ailey, guested with american ballet theater in their new production of othello, directs his own dance company 'complexions' and he's terrific in fosse now. the flamenco dude, joaquin cruz, has his own troupe of dancers and musicians that i saw last year, and it's really strong. he was completely underused. and savion glover is the great new generation of tap. what a waste of talent. the music they danced to was stupid and unenvolving, and the dances made no sense. debbie allen and the show director muffed the whole thing. However, I liked Debbie Allen's work on "Fame"... loved how they all just broke into song and dance in the middle of the cafeteria...LOL! debbie allen choreographed the tv show, but not the movie. that was louis falco. patrick np - pierrot lunaire ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:45:13 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] Up On Cripple Creek - The Band (heard it on the radio today) Gina NP: Leonard Cohen - The Future ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:54:14 -0500 From: "Steve Garrison" Subject: Re: NJC Sugar Mountain, Chaka, Whitney, Mariah, Kazan Good point. I also felt that when Norman Jewison, in accepting the Thalberg award, urged filmmakers to forget about demographics and focus groups and bottom line considerations, and "just tell good stories," that he received a rousing reception from a lot of people in the audience who don't believe that for a moment. A certain amount of hypocrisy is necessary to keep the world turning, but H-wood is just ridiculous. Steve - ---------- > My question about the blacklisting - wasn't it the Hollywood studios and > related machinery who blacklisted the people rather than the government? I > don't think it's possible for government to blacklist someone from > employment. > > Kakki > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:22:35 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: NJC:Blacklisting:HUAC In a message dated 99-03-24 13:19:16 EST, kakkib@att.net writes: >My question about the blacklisting - wasn't it the Hollywood studios and >related machinery who blacklisted the people rather than the government? I >don't think it's possible for government to blacklist someone from >employment. > >Kakki I don't believe that it was the government per se who did the blacklisting. The government left that to the studios. The carrot, (or stick depending on one's POV), was more red tape, more harrassment, more government interference if they hired people who either did not cooperate w/ HUAC, (such as Dashiell Hammett), or those identified as "communists." The SF Sunday Chronicle magazine had a small page about the controversy using a quote by Dalton Trumbo. Trumbo, (the author of "Johnny Get Your Gun"), was backlisted during those times, but later said that it would be useless to look for heros or villians. That it was a time of great evil and there were only victims. MG - uncertain what to do with herself now that she's home early in the middle of the day! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:30:24 -0600 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] When I first read the post on What's Up, I thought we were referring to album titles. Then Gina wrote: > Up On Cripple Creek - The Band (heard it on the radio today) > > Gina > As far as ups go then: Further On Up The Road - The Band Picking Up after You - Tom Waits All Grown Up - Elvis Costello Pump It Up - Elvis Costello Tangeled Up in Blue - Bob Dylan NP: XTC - Apple Venus Vol. I jody ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:39:24 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: RE: NJC! - Internet long distance At 08:00 AM 3/24/99 -0800, you wrote: >>As resident JMDL mole in the House of Representatives, >I write to tell you all that this is 100% untrue. >There are absolutely no plans to vote on any such >legislation at any point in the forseeable future. >Unfortunately, this false report has been circulating >the internet for about five months now. I encourage >anyone who receives this message to notify the sender >that it is incorrect. > >You are right to be skeptical of your lawmakers, but >in this case you can rest easy. > >--Michael > Thank you, Michael! I knew someone would have a clear answer. That is another good thing about being on this list .... all the well informed people ... no matter what the topic! Heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:43:22 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] In a message dated 3/24/99 7:34:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnsonjs@earthlink.net writes: > When I first read the post on What's Up, I thought we were referring to > album titles. Then Gina wrote: You're probably right but why not broaden the field a bit? Gina (too busy to pay attention to what's up) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:41:56 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: 'Up' songs (NJC) How about "Up Against It" from Todd Rundgren? That's it from my weak and lazy mind. Brian very much looking forward to my trip west next week :-) np: NPR Fresh Air === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:49:15 -0600 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] Gina, > You're probably right but why not broaden the field a bit? > > Gina (too busy to pay attention to what's up) > You're right- Why not broaden the field! This was my one day to catch up on posts and this is what I responded to. jody ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:45:56 -0500 From: The Humphreys Subject: NJC Thanks for the memory of the magic Skagit! My husband and I used to live in Seattle and loved to canoe the Skagit on a lazy Sunday afternoon....Suzanne Mark-n-Travis wrote: > It's more of a jaunt from Evansville but you can also come to the > Skagit River valley here in Washington state, not too far north of > Seattle. It's just about the right time of year to see multi-colored > fields of tulips and golden fields of daffodils. On clear days you > might even have the Cascade mountains as a backdrop. Nearby is > Deception Pass, a narrow section of Puget Sound that passes between > dramatically sheer rock cliffs. You can stand on the bridge that spans > the pass and look down at churning blue green water, flowing between > rock walls that are capped with evergreen foliage. Plenty of photo > ops. And you know there may be (a lot) more here in God's country. > > Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:30:04 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: 'Up' songs (NJC) This here's a country tune that was real popular when I was in high school back in dear 'ole San Antonio, Texas: Up Against the Wall (You Redneck Mother) - -Julius, who thankfully hasn't seen a "Goat Ropers Need Love, Too" sticker in a long time ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:53:20 -0800 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] That's Why I'm Leaving It Up to You Mark in Seattle dianne schofield wrote: > > Can't Give It Up-Carly Simon-on Spoiled Girl cd > -----Original Message----- > From: Kakki > To: joni@smoe.org > Date: 24 March 1999 02:39 > Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] > > >Start Me Up/Rolling Stones > > > >Uptown Girl/Billy Joel > > > >Got to Give it Up/Marvin Gaye > > > >Kakki > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:06:19 -0800 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: Nick Nolte/Political Actors (NJC) Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: In a more recent > film, two years ago, (I forget the title, but Julie Christie was nominated > for an Oscar in it), he was excellent as a repairman who's cheating on his > wife, played by Julie. This was a very good little movie called 'Afterglow'. Rent it if you haven't seen it. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 00:01:29 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: What's Up (NJC)] You light up my life, Carole King Wake up and make love to me, WHO??? Barry White????? WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 00:14:43 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: Splendour and Kazan njc Painting with...jc I think Beatty got his big break in "Splendour in the Grass." > >Kakki Synchro! I bought the movie today! Kazan made some of my favorite movies: Baby Doll, Streetcar. I think his contribution to the blacklisting came from his own disappointment in the communist party. As a former member of the communist party myself, I was very disenchanted when I realized that our activism boiled down to a mere exercise in intellectualism. I never met a single member of the working class in the Party, only romantics who met the same fate. Incidentally, I received Joni's "Painting with... etc" today too. I was wondering if there would any close-ups of jmdlers. Who should I look out for? WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:08:29 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC:Blacklisting:HUAC MG wrote: >I don't believe that it was the government per se who did the blacklisting. >The government left that to the studios. The carrot, (or stick depending on >one's POV), was more red tape, more harrassment, more government interference >if they hired people who either did not cooperate w/ HUAC, (such as Dashiell >Hammett), or those identified as "communists." I felt some distaste and dismay at the idea of protesting Kazan's award almost 50 years after the fact and out of context to today. I also wondered at the studios' hypocrisy in blacklisting and throwing out on the street a large group of their most talented writers, driector and actors. Many of those working in Hollywood belonged to the American Communist party, including Lucille Ball. I have read and believe they initially thought of it as socialistic and for workers/labor rights rather than as the totalitarian monster it became under Stalinism. It was wrong for the government and the studios to lump these people in with the Russian model. I'm probably also guilty of putting something from 50 years ago into today's context, but I would still tend to hold the studios more accountable than anyone else. Ultimately they should be held more accountable than Kazan alone. They could have stood up to pressure from the government, but they seemed to have buckled to public (ticket-buying) opinion at the time. What bothers me is this making a scapegoat of the ailing, 80 year old Kazan alone all these years later at a function, which (to agree with Tube), is really suppose to be about light entertainment. I also think some actors take themselves too seriously and get a little bothered when they make sometimes sweeping and kneejerk judgments on things that happened before they were even born, or at least old enough to really understand or recall the sequence of events. Kakki NP: CNN "bomber jet planes riding shotgun in the sky" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:21:55 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Viva Italy! Congratulations on receiving the Oscar award from the Americans for "Best Foreign Language Film" for Life is Beautiful. Saw it. Loved it. - -- Read me or deleeeete me but don't try to shut me up, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:24:46 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] What's Up Pussycat? (Tom Jones?) Pulled Up - Talking Heads Stir It Up (little darlin') - who did that one? That's it, I give UP Gina NP: Train Song (Demise Of The Caboose) from Musings Of A Creek Dipper - Victoria Williams (aaaah, those Williams women: Victoria, Lucinda and Dar) Nowadays it ain't no use, there's no caboose... Thru fields they'd ramble - over mountains they'd crawl... Victoria Williams ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:26:58 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: bot response #16 benign trigger string: "Joni's painting that was used on the cover of their album released that year (_So Far_)" response It's a wonderful drawing made with markers. endos ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:23:00 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Nick Nolte/Political Actors (NJC) In a message dated 3/24/99 8:18:55 PM Central Standard Time, mark-n- travis@worldnet.att.net writes: << This was a very good little movie called 'Afterglow'. Rent it if you haven't seen it. >> Thanks for the title, Mark! It was a great flick. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:51:56 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] In a message dated 3/24/99 10:33:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ginamu@aol.com writes: << What's Up Pussycat? (Tom Jones?) >> Sorry, that would be "What's NEW, Pussycat?" entry disqualified. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:47:24 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: What's Up (NJC)] In a message dated 3/24/99 9:33:22 PM Central Standard Time, Ginamu@aol.com writes: << Stir It Up (little darlin') - who did that one? >> I think the hit was by Johnny Nash, of "I can see clearly now" fame... Bob ps: Since the original challenge was for album titles, "Time's Up" by Living Colour is another.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:56:05 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Distortion on Blue, C&S ...Long Somebody pinch me: we're actually having a sustained thread about an audiophile topic! Great! I just realized that at the very beginning of "California", Joni is playing a James Taylor figure but she's playing it on the dulcimer! If you listen closely, james doesn't come in until 00:10! I would like someone to verify or refute this. I'm talking about the first hammer/slide combination that makes up the first 2 seconds. I think that the glitch on "YOOOU" that Howard talked about in "This Flight Tonight" is a mic overloading but it might be tape saturation. Does someone know for sure? Howard postulated that the crackles on the line "just mythical" was due to poor manufacturing of the original "Blue" CD. Unfortunately there are crackles in my HDCD in the same spot though. Howard Wright wrote: > In Blue, the most obvious glitch is on "This Flight Tonight", in the last > chorus: Starbright, YOOUU got the loving that I like ... - -- Read me or deleeeete me but don't try to shut me up, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:12:38 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: What's up? I can't believe no one listed the Everly Brothers yet: "Wake up, little Susie" or that 70s thing "Up tight, ev'rything is all right. Up tight, outtasight!" Ciao for now DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:32:53 -0500 From: Janet Hess Subject: RE: What's Up (NJC)] AAAAAck!!! Carole King and "You light up my life"???? Did Debbie Boone write "Up on the Roof" and "Natural Woman"? ;p At 12:01 AM 3/25/1999 -0300, you wrote: >You light up my life, Carole King >Wake up and make love to me, WHO??? Barry White????? >WallyK > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:46:29 EST From: Seanapper@aol.com Subject: Stormy Weather CD Hi List! I have been pretty busy the past several weeks and must confess that, due to lack of time, I've been deleting JMDL digests right and left. But I skimmed one the other day in which someone mentioned a Stormy Weather CD put out by AT&T. How can I get one of those CDs in my hot little hands? Neil in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:43:10 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Distortion on Blue At 10:56 PM 3/24/99 -0500, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: >I just realized that at the very beginning of "California", Joni is >playing a James Taylor figure but she's playing it on the dulcimer! If >you listen closely, james doesn't come in until 00:10! I would like >someone to verify or refute this. I don't quite understand what you're saying, Jim. Yes, it is her dulcimer that opens the track. As far as it being a "James Taylor figure" I think it's purely a Joni-dulcimer-riff! Throughout the song, the dulcimer is mixed predominantly to the right side while the acoustic guitar of JT is favored to the left channel. Keeping this in mind may make it easier to distinguish the two. Personally, I really enjoy the pedal steel guitar layers, which give a soaring quality to the feel of this song. >I think that the glitch on "YOOOU" that Howard talked about in "This >Flight Tonight" is a mic overloading but it might be tape saturation. >Does someone know for sure? Howard postulated that the crackles on the >line "just mythical" was due to poor manufacturing of the original >"Blue" CD. Unfortunately there are crackles in my HDCD in the same spot >though. I think it'd be difficult to "overload" a professional-quality microphone in a recording studio setting which is designed to reproduce the human voice so my vote would be over-saturation as being the cause of the distortion. If this is the case, it's pure carelessness on the part of one of the sound engineers. As for the "crackles," they are in evidence several times on "This Flight Tonight." Many tend to blend in with the percussive layers so they're hard to pick out but careful listening will discern them. It would be most interesting to hear from someone who was involved in the actual recording process of this album to find out if these flaws were simply overlooked or if there was indeed a feeling like "this" or "that" particular take was so good that it merited being included in the final mix, sonic imperfections and all. Until then we can only guess. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:18:19 -0800 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: NJC KAZAN themselves too seriously and get a little bothered when they make sometimes sweeping and kneejerk judgments on things that happened before they were even born, or at least old enough to really understand or recall the sequence of events. Kakki, you write well. Couldn't agree with you more, it can even be extended to everyone.LOL Gene ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:45:30 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: distortion,pt 2 More glitch notes from C&S and Blue: The rest of C&S: Free Man in Paris- @:23 there is a warbling dropout, maybe a tape splice "in it for their own gain ^^^ you can't please them.." People's Parties, Same Situation, Raised on Robbery, Twisted - -no glitches detected. Just Like This Train-@ :16 there is a VERY slight crackle in the left channel, possibly from the electric keyboard Trouble Child- noticable dropout of whole track briefly @:40 after "dragon shining with all values known, then @1:32-:33 "really CAN'T GIVE love in this condition" there is distortion. All the above were on both HDCD and stock CD The rest of Blue: My Old Man, Little Green, Carey, Blue sound okay California: @3:09 there is a very fast dropout after "bloody changes" A Case of You' @1:26 2nd "I'd STILL be on my feet" there is a little electronic 'snap' sound Last Time I Saw Richard- there are consecutive little electronic clicks during the piano intro @:03-05, :20, :25, and again during the 1st vocal @1:08-1:12. At :54 there is something that sounds like a tape edit. There is distortion of the piano @1:47-1:54, 2:39-2:49, and 3:46-3:55. This is from the stock CD (the only one I have) That's it for now, RR ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #129 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! 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