From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #124 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, March 20 1999 Volume 04 : Number 124 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: (NJC) Blue Laws [catman ] Re: WOW!!!! [catman ] The Discussion list as Cafe [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re[2]: New thread-songs guys can play [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] New Stereo? (NJC) ["Barnicle, Kathryn" ] Re[5]: (NJC) Blue Laws [claud_loren_carter@ccMail.Census.GOV] Re: Re[4]: (NJC) Blue Laws [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Re[4]: (NJC) Blue Laws [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Re[4]: (NJC) Blue Laws: "Hawkeying us from the sidelines" [MGVal@aol.] Re: Rock n Roll Hall of Fame (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] RE: Songs guys can play [Louis Lynch ] Pro Logic used for Music ... (SJC) ["Don Rowe" ] AMG (JC) ["P. Henry" ] "We Got Jazz" [Medric Faulkner ] Distortion on "Court and Spark" ["P. Henry" ] Re: Distortion on "Court and Spark" [MDESTE1@aol.com] RE: Songs guys can play [Jenaya Dawe ] NJC Songs for obsessive drag-racers #63 [Bounced Message ] NJC Italian 'Blue Laws' [Bounced Message ] Re: Pro Logic used for Music ... (SJC) [catman ] new member with a question ["Jeffery W. Osborne" ] Re: new member with a question [Jerry Notaro ] Re: new member with a question (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Distortion on "Court and Spark" ["Kakki" ] Re: new member with a question [dsk ] Re: new member with a question ["Jeffery W. Osborne" ] Re: Distortion on "Court and Spark" [MDESTE1@aol.com] RE: new member with a question ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: New Stereo? (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Rock n Roll Hall of Fame (NJC) [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:50:57 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: (NJC) Blue Laws Scott and Jody wrote: > Believe it or not, there is a law in Illinois that prohibits one from > dining in a restaurant that is on fire! that's what inbreeding does for you! > > > jody - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:51:04 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: WOW!!!! > > > A good one to try, if you're into Ambient/Dub/Techno/Dance/Trance > is Orbital's "In Sides". (As you might guess, I've no idea how to > classify this album...) I have the same problem-I like Enigma, Deep Forest, asnd have loads of dance music where it is just music and hectic and loud. Like supoed up Tangerine Dream. I usually get it cos I heard a friend with it or something cos I have no idea in which section to look in the record shops!An album you might like is called Sacred Spirit-chants and dances of native American Indians. A lovely album. > > > Anyway, it's late... > > --Chris > > Chris Marshall > Secure Systems Integration Ltd. > Tel: +44 (0) 7970 459 553 > Fax: +44 (0) 1954 201 741 > E-mail: chris@secure-si.co.uk > PGP key: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/chris/pubkey.txt > Fingerprint: 49F7 5132 C599 6ADC 47E7 844E A612 3F53 - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:40:28 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: The Discussion list as Cafe You know I get up every day at 4:30am. The paper doesnt come until 6 so Im outta here. Ive got to read something during breakfast so one day two years ago I decided to get my laptop out and surf the web and I decided out of the Blue to look into Joni mitchell. Thats how I found the JMDL. Now two years later Im still doing it except I check in a couple times a day just to see whos posted. Its so nice to look around the cafe and see the familiar faces chatting away every day. It is interesting how in some ways the internet robs us all of human interaction in so many ways and yet in this one way its actually caused me to meet something like a hundred nice people who I never would have could have met without its existence. The other day it occurred to me that turning on my laptop in the morning is just like in Europe when you find a nice cafe just down the block from your hotel and you get to know the people there. This is one way I believe that the net has improved the quality of life. I toast all of you with my orange juice. Salut JMDL. Cheers, Marcel in a whimisical mood TGIF. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:34:56 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: New thread-songs guys can play Paul adds: << and I think Woodstock would work well.>> It certainly works well on the JMDL "Tape of You" - I think Wally's version is one of the high spots of the collection... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:49:43 -0500 From: "Barnicle, Kathryn" Subject: New Stereo? (NJC) Apologies for the NJC. I actually think this is my first ever NJC post. Boy, am I treading on new ground. I have been inspired by Catman's new speaker occurrence and how great Joni's music sounded. I realize that I need a new stereo!!!!! My old stereo system was pretty decent but it has been boxed up in an outdoor shed for about six years now. I'm afraid to even look in the boxes, lots of mice don'tchaknow. But, as my electronics intelligence is near nil, how do I go about buying a whole new system? Where are the best buys? What components do I need? Maybe there is a web site I could check out?!!? Any suggestions are greatly welcome. Thanks! Katie from the Cape (Cod, that is) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:49:49 -0500 From: claud_loren_carter@ccMail.Census.GOV Subject: Re[5]: (NJC) Blue Laws I remember, while on a golfing trip to Mrytle Beach, SC a few years back we ran out of beer on a Sunday while playing a course. Now we'd been drinking all day, all night, for 3 days, but we ran out, and being Sunday, we could not get any. So, we purchased some from a person who lived on the course. Damm, we'd struck it rich!! Loren...who's terribly out of practice in the alcohol consuming area. NP...Nothing. It's so quiet here at work that I am off to find something that makes some kind of racket. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re[4]: (NJC) Blue Laws Author: at SMTP-GATEWAY Date: 3/18/1999 1:44 PM <> In restaurants in Charleston County & Horry County (Myrtle Beach), you can buy alcohol for on-premises consumption. Bars & Liquor Stores are closed. I just make sure the cooler is stocked good on Saturday when I'm at the beach and don't worry about it... Bob NP: Elvis C: "Lipstick Vogue" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:53:32 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: (NJC) Blue Laws In a message dated 99-03-18 14:18:55 EST, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: >Blue laws also covered stores being open. How many of you are old enough >to remember when stores, even the grocery stores, and the malls, were >closed on >Sunday Ahh! Thinking about New Jersey's "Two Guys" store twice in one year! I can remember going to that store on a Sunday with my mother and marveling at the contrast between the bright, active part of the store and the roped off areas where the clothing was sold. My mother told us that it was illegal to buy clothes on Sunday because of the "Blue Laws" and I always felt very daring to dash in and out of the clothes racks. Illegal wandering had its thrill...... MG - feeling her age this morning ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:57:03 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: (NJC) Blue Laws In a message dated 3/19/99 8:56:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, MGVal@aol.com writes: << Ahh! Thinking about New Jersey's "Two Guys" store twice in one year! I can remember going to that store on a Sunday with my mother and marveling at the contrast between the bright, active part of the store and the roped off areas where the clothing was sold. My mother told us that it was illegal to buy clothes on Sunday because of the "Blue Laws" and I always felt very daring to dash in and out of the clothes racks. Illegal wandering had its thrill...... MG - feeling her age this morning >> You'd think they'd have let you buy a red dress, even if they wouldn't sell you the blue one. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:59:51 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: (NJC) Blue Laws: "Hawkeying us from the sidelines" In a message dated 99-03-18 14:39:03 EST, dgrowe@hotmail.com writes: >It must have been a while back ... "and they hawkeyed us >from the sidelines/Holding their rulers without a heart" >takes on a whole new meaning having heard this! > There was an old Catholic standard of conduct for teens dancing. "Always leave enough room between you and your partner for the Holy Spirit." And nuns would walk around at a dance w/ a ruler, measuring to be sure that celestial spirit wasn't being crushed. Get 'em squashed too flat and they wouldn't be able to dance on the head of a pin anymore, so you know they had a serious job to do. Although Joni was not raised Catholic, it sounds as though she had a good bit of exposure to it. MG - from old Catholic stock..... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:17:49 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Rock n Roll Hall of Fame (NJC) Kakki wrote: > God, I LOVE Eric Clapton And McCartney is just more dear > than can be imagined. Paul was just as delightful to watch last night as he was 35 years ago. Age has not at all affected his appeal or impishness. He can still light up a stage with his charm. > I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Joel was going to be hanging it all > up because he has had some ongoing chronic problems with his vocal chords. > Anyone else hear this? Well, I certainly heard it last night. I hope his illness is not more serious than they have been letting on. Jerry np: Peter, Paul, and Mary - Flowers and Stones ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:37:02 -0800 From: Mark-n-Travis Subject: [Fwd: Contest] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------5802B47D399C540A3431EADF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe this will change my mind about Joni's singing on Blue. I can't wait to hear this. Three cheers for Wally & the Home Page! Mark in Seattle - --------------5802B47D399C540A3431EADF Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.6.147]) by mtiwgwc07.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with ESMTP id <19990319020844.HYLV10469@smtp.well.com> for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 02:08:44 +0000 Received: from [206.169.228.103] (haiti-103.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.103]) by smtp.well.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA24053 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:08:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903190208.SAA24053@smtp.well.com> Subject: Contest Date: Thu, 18 Mar 99 18:13:56 -0700 x-sender: wallyb@mail.well.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Wally Breese To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Hi Mark, Congratulations! You've won a copy of the Gold Disc of the album Blue, courtesy of DCC Classics and the Joni Mitchell Homepage. Please send me your mailing address. Later, Wally Breese The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com - ----------------------------- - --------------5802B47D399C540A3431EADF-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:15:29 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Songs guys can play There are a bunch of Joni songs guys can play. Some of the covers I do or have done are: You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio Raised on Robbery** Urge for Going** Case of You** Slouching Toward Bethlehem Korinna, Korinna** Shadows and Light Blue Motel Room This Flight Tonight** Both Sides Now** River Cherokee Louise Ethiopia Dreamland Big Yellow Taxi** Free Man in Paris** Love (I Corinthians 13) For a talent show, I think This Flight Tonight and Raised on Robbery would really rock. Korinna, Korinna is an old blues song that always wins people over. Steppenwolf even did a "heavy" version of the song back in the 1970s. If you play the guitar, you can fake the star songs (**) in standard tuning. I've also tried a couple of Joni's songs with "girl" lyrics, like Carey, without changing the words. When I was playing coffeehouses long ago, I was such a devoted Joni fan that most of my repertoire (80%) were Joni songs, and I probably have tried to sing just about everything she does (out of adulation). I found that Joni songs go over well -- there are ALWAYS at least a handful of people who adore her, and I've made a lot of new friends that way. People who don't know of her material come up and ask "Who does that song?" I always felt about half guilty covering Joni's songs. People who play out don't pay royalties or mechanical license fees to the artist, and I was doing a lot of Joni. But, then again, playing out does not pay all that well (I never became rich from coffeehouses) and I think I helped sell a lot of albums for Ms. Mitchell. I remember when I started doing Cherokee Louise, at least a dozen people were unaware of the album release and they all said they were going to buy it. Most of the people did buy it, I know. I also buy about six copies of each release for gifts and such (I know I have bought at least 30 Hejiras), so I don't think that I'm ripping her off. Lately, I'm doing mostly my own originals, and I'm working on my third CD. But when I play out, I still cover some selected Joni songs with new arrangements. I play Urge for Going on the piano instead of guitar. I rearranged You Turn Me On, Dreamland, and a few others for the pedal harp. And, I always get requests for Big Yellow Taxi from people who know me. Good luck on your show! Harper Lou Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:40:14 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Pro Logic used for Music ... (SJC) Colin's recently marveled at the quality of music in Dolby Pro Logic, a system designed for surround sound movie soundtracks. NRH and TI in fact sound good using it, as does WTRF, and "Tiger Bones". Unfortunately, these are exceptions rather than the rule. Usually, Pro Logic wildly muddies stereo sound, or produces a "reverse karaoke" effect, where you end up hearing only the vocalist in the center channel while the instruments all seem to disappear. Here's why, just in case anybody really cares ... Pro Logic is really nothing more that the old Quadraphonic with the addition of a fifth speaker, called the "center channel". Movie soundtracks these days are electronically encoded to simulate "four channel" mixes -- with dedicated sound for the LEFT, RIGHT, CENTER and both REAR speakers. Most movie soundtrack CDs will retain their Pro Logic encoding for audio-only playback -- but for some reason, the "Dolby Surround" logo does not consistently appear on packaging. Try "A Case of You" off the "Practical Magic" soundtrack -- it's really quite a treat. Regular stereo (two-channel) music doesn't have this encoding ... so in many ways, turning on the Pro Logic "confuses" the decoding chip. It has a default it uses -- and sends all sound "shared" by the left and right speaker and puts it in the center channel. All sound that would come ONLY out of the left and right speakers stays where it would in normal stereo. Then all sounds above a certain frequency, which precisely escapes me this morning, is "delayed" a few milli-seconds, then sent to the rear speakers -- which to your ear sound like an "echo" in a concert hall. My experiments have been mixed, but more often than not, Pro Logic muddies and confuses stereo signals more than it clarifies. Not that you shouldn't try it out -- there are gems out there to be found. Glad to hear that some of them are Joni's! Sorry to have rambled, Don Rowe Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:59:04 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: AMG (JC) jenaya wrote: >"When the dust settles, Joni Mitchell may stand as the most important and influential recording artist of the late 20th century. Umcompromising and Iconoclastic, Mitchell confounded expectations at every turn; relentlessly innovative, her music evolved from deeply personal folk stylings into pop, jazz, avant-garde, and even world music, presaging multicultural experimentation of the 1980's and 1990's by over a decade...."> thanks for posting that jenaya. it's nice to read a statement from a publication where they really can comprehend Joni Mitchell. the characteristic of endurance which the author refers to by the phrase: "When the dust settles..." is one I have mentioned a couple times here lately too. some years ago I heard someone somewhere talking about how you can measure the truly great musical artists of the past, "like gershwin" (their example) by the fact that their music is still being played now, so many years later... they were making this statement to express their opinion of the music of Stevie Wonder, (with which I happen to agree) that his music will still be around in 50 years... and, of course, this got me thinking about our Joni... *S* pat NP: Cowgirl In The Sand - Neil Young http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:20:24 -0800 (PST) From: Medric Faulkner Subject: "We Got Jazz" Friends, My sixth grade classes just finished presenting a really nice play, "We Got Jazz," to our parents, teachers and student body with some great little production numbers. We were all very impressed. They even mentioned Joni's name in a listing of jazz greats between Billie Holiday and Charlie Parker as a special recognition for their principal. It was a beautiful program enjoyed by all and I was very touched. Medric _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:50:32 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Distortion on "Court and Spark" I have been reading recent and semi recent posts regarding the distortion on BLUE, STAS, C&S, etc... all on Joni's earlier albums, and I've refrained from putting in my $.22 until now... I once worked with a local Detroit artist named Ron Coden, in fact he was the first 'real' folksinger I ever met, and he was a fairly short fellow, but with a big, beautiful and very powerful voice which could acheive great volume and might well have been described as 'booming'... well, after hearing him perform many times live over a period of about 3 years and being very familiar with his material, he did a locally produced and distributed album which I got a hold of as soon as I found out about it from him. when he told me about it, however, he qualified by saying that some people's voices are just not able to be faithfully recorded because of their harmonics, which, when I heard it, sounded like just so much ego baloney because maybe he was being hypersensitive and thought the recording could have sounded better... but, sure enough, when I listened to it, some of his voice was actually missing, and, in those places where I expected to hear the wall-shaking 'power' of his live, on-stage singing voice ringing out, instead there was distortion! the same was true of Joni to some extent, though not as pronounced... until I heard her sing I had never heard a female soprano who could shake walls! the main selection that comes to my mind which demonstrates this is on 'rainy night house' where she demonstrates the sound of her singing 'soprano in the upstairs choir'... one of many places on her earlier albums where you're just not hearing all of her... where you're not hearing those harmonics in her voice that were literally unrecordable, at least with the audio technology of the day... I think this probably also applies to the recent posts where people say she sounded 'shrill' or 'screeching' on certain albums... perhaps this is the reason these things never bothered me, because I heard her perform live so much that my ears automatically filled in the blanks. this phenomena is not unique to Joni... I'll bet some of you have gone to see somone who's records you liked and found out they had twice the voice in person. pat NP: Revival - Allman Brothers http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:26:03 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Distortion on "Court and Spark" I simply must interject something here. Without boring everyone I have worked for years in some of the finest recording studios in the SF Bay Area including Fantasy and The Record Plant. While I havent gone back and listened carefully to these alleged "distortions" on her albums (I will this weekend by the way) I must say that it is absolutly eroneous to believe that equipment has anything to truly do with the matters that are being discussed. the folk singer mentioned is totally full of nonsense. Any effect that he is referring to is a product of lousy production (He produced it himself) or inferior equipment (that HE used to save money), not that the equipment wasnt capable. I have a Mic (Neumann) that was made in 1965 that can max the VU meters when I clip a fingernail on the other side of the room. Now the one mention of a tape problem (ie remixing old recordings from old masters) could be true because tape has a finite life or it may have not been stored properly but the recording itself if done at Warners was undoubtedly handled by serious professionals on serious equipment. As for whether great recordings can be done on old equipment, everybody knows that Sgt. Peppers was done on 8 track not 32 or 64. Some of the best albums of all time with outrageous sound were done on equipment inferior to some of todays EXCEPT the Mics. Microphone technology has not advanced as much as other equipment as evidenced by my trusty old Neumann. Now musicians are famous (as well as bozo amateur producers) for demanding that certain things be done in the mixing or the final mix (Mastering) to vynal but even if the Pros at warner wanted to try some avant garde techniques I cant see capturing a clear mistake for posterity. Things like gross mistakes are cought immediately and a new take is done. Its just too easy to fix in the recording process. each take is listened to several times immediately after it is recorded so nothing gets by. Also Im having difficulty imagining the perfectionist Joni (or Klein) saying "Well thats a distorted take but its lunch time....." . I will listen to these traks this weekend. Marcel Deste ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:48:41 -0800 From: Jenaya Dawe Subject: RE: Songs guys can play Lou wrote: < People who don't know of her material come up and ask "Who does that song?"> Actually, that's exactly how I found Joni. I was performing in a recital in high school, and the girl right before me sang "A Case of You" and she was AMAZING. I had never heard the song or actually, any Joni to speak of, and immediately fell in love. I bought "Blue" the next day. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:12:05 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: NJC Songs for obsessive drag-racers #63 From: "Tube" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:09:55 +0100 Songs for obsessive drag-racers #63: 'You dream fat tires' Tube ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:10:48 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: NJC Italian 'Blue Laws' From: "Tube" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:35:16 +0100 Dunno about all that, but where I come from in Lincolnshire, England, the whole town shuts up at five o'clock and the streets are practically empty by six. The supermarkets stay open later (till around nine), and there's some restaurants open till late, but that doesn't help the ghost-town feel of the rest of the town. You'd better get used to that now your'e leaving London, Colin. Long live Queensway W2 where you can by a three-piece suit at midnight. Italy though, where I am now. Where can I begin? Everything's open till nine, but only because everything's closed in the afternoon. It drives me CRAZY! Been here well over a year now and can't get used to this. I never remember this fact and always plan my day to do a few chores at home in the morning and hit the shops about 2pm. 2pm comes around and then it hits me - Nothing's open. Also, most shops are closed on Monday mornings, some are closed ALL of monday. Dammit, Monday is when you wanna get going and buy stuff! Not for Italians it seems. Also, food shops are all closed on Thursday afternoons and nights. Most stuff is closed on Sundays although some open on Sunday afternoons. Some food shops are open on Mondays when everything else is shut. All this means that available shopping hours are around 20% less than in England, and I wonder how these shopkeepers make enough sales to pay the rents on their properties when all the rest of the world is in such recession that they have to be open for nearly 24 hours a day just to keep up. Also the logistics of opening up a shop in the morning, shutting it all down at lunchtime and opening again four hours later for only another three or four hours goes beyond comprehension. Even the street markets do this. They unpack and erect their stalls at 8.am and by 1pm there all gone again, and they won't even be back after teatime. One half day is their market day. How can it pay them to do all that packing and unpacking for just five hours trading?! The shop staff must be all locally employed, for who wants to commute twice a day? It's not as if they restock the shelves during the closed afternoon hours. In italian supermarkets, stockmen and shelf-fillers are always in your way with big dirty dangerous trollies while your shopping. There's sawdust and broken boxes and cabbage leaves and wet patches and other crap all over the floors and nothing's ever ready. Enough. Just venting my spleem. Tube ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:17:41 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Pro Logic used for Music ... (SJC) I have two main speakers and two centre speakers. There are holes for two rear speakers and two more main speakers. When I sit in the centre, the main vocal comes out of the 'centre' two speakers and the backing comes out of the two main. Havinf read of what has been written, I have now tried out old anologue cd's, including some anologue md's I recorded. Also some cd's that are just music and no vocals. Also John has now listened to his piano music, his opera and classical. We both agree theyt sound far superior to ordinary stereo. I, who know little about music, just what sounds good, think it is great. John, who knows much about music and has a fine-tuned ear, also thinks this way of listening is far superior. When we move, I intend getting another set of main speakers and a set or rear ones. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:24:26 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: New Stereo? (NJC) None of my stuff is particularly expensive, and besides you can get it much cheaper in the USA(we get screwed here). I have a Yamaha amp, goodmans tape deck, cd and record deck and a Sony minidisc.(the md is excellent for recording and even tho i only record it in anologue, the older cd's recorded onto md in this way sound so much better than the cd! Jussi from this list, explained why.) Barnicle, Kathryn wrote: > Apologies for the NJC. I actually think this is my first ever NJC post. > Boy, am I treading on new ground. I have been inspired by Catman's new > speaker occurrence and how great Joni's music sounded. I realize that I > need a new stereo!!!!! My old stereo system was pretty decent but it has > been boxed up in an outdoor shed for about six years now. I'm afraid to > even look in the boxes, lots of mice don'tchaknow. But, as my electronics > intelligence is near nil, how do I go about buying a whole new system? > Where are the best buys? What components do I need? Maybe there is a web > site I could check out?!!? Any suggestions are greatly welcome. Thanks! > > Katie from the Cape (Cod, that is) - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:40:14 -0600 From: "Jeffery W. Osborne" Subject: new member with a question Greetings Earthlings, Top of the day to you all! I am in the middle of another love-affair with Joni's adorable 'Chelsea Morning'. I have assumed for 32 years now that she refers to Chelsea, England, and have painted many wonderful dreams in my mind about how it must be there. But recently someone (Anna Lygoe!) told me about the Chelsea that is in New York City, adjacent to Greenwich Village. My bubble didn't pop, but now I wonder if someone knows... ... which Chelsea was she referring to, if any? I look forward to participating in this forum. Cheers! Jeff Osborne Warrior Poet ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:44:20 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: new member with a question "Jeffery W. Osborne" wrote: > Greetings Earthlings, > > Top of the day to you all! > I am in the middle of another love-affair with Joni's adorable 'Chelsea > Morning'. > I have assumed for 32 years now that she refers to Chelsea, England, and > have painted many wonderful dreams in my mind about how it must be there. > But recently someone (Anna Lygoe!) told me about the Chelsea that is in > New York City, adjacent to Greenwich Village. My bubble didn't pop, but > now I wonder if someone knows... She is definitely referring to the Chelsea section of Manhattan. Joni has spoken of it often in interviews. Sorry, ol' chap. Jerry np: Clouds ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:06:38 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC Italian 'Blue Laws' Oh my God! It sounds just like the Argentina I used to know and love before it was engulfed by globalization, and every little, charming, anarchic shopkeeper was bullied out of the way by horrendous shopping malls and standardazation practices. When I was a child, stores opened when the owner's family was done with breakfast and closed when the last customer had left. Well, they used to say that Argentines were Italians that spoke Spanish. I guess that that was why we were all so terribly underdeveloped in a Roman Catholic sort of way. Now we are just underdeveloped in a World Bank way. WallyK Tube exclaimed: >Italy though, where I am now. Where can I begin? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:10:41 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: new member with a question (NJC) Jeff Osborne, Warrior Poet, writes: <> Hello Jeff & welcome! Since you address us as earthlings, does that mean you're from or located on another planet? We've got flags of many countries, but nobody from outside Earth's boundaries...Kewl!! btw, what is a Warrior poet? If I'm in the jungle being chased by some savage with a weapon, I'd much rather be armed with something other than poetry!! "Halt, or I'll recite!!" :~D Bob in South Carolina, USA, Earth NP(Now Playing): Steve Winwood, "The Finer Things" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:32:05 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Distortion on "Court and Spark" Marcel wrote: >I simply must interject something here. Without boring everyone I have worked >for years in some of the finest recording studios in the SF Bay Area including >Fantasy and The Record Plant. This is not boring in my book! I would love to hear more stories or anecdote about your experiences anytime. >I must say that it is absolutly eroneous to believe that equipment has >anything to truly do with the matters that are being discussed. the folk >singer mentioned is totally full of nonsense. I appreciate your technical knowledge here but have sometimes wondered myself why some people sound so different on a recording than they do live. I can conceive that the production has a lot to do with it, and maybe the mics as you say, but have heard the differences with enough artists that part of the question remains unresolved for me. I've heard examples where the wizardry of recording engineers and equipment can make someone sound much better than live, but can't quite understand the converse examples where the artist sounds ten times better live than on their recordings. Isn't is possible at all that there could be unique characteristics in someone's singing voice that may not be fully captured by the engineer or equipment, no matter how expertly it is produced? Or maybe it could be that we, as the "receptors", hear and experience it according to our own individual aural "equipment." I never experienced any of Joni's albums as "screeching" but many of my friends, both male and female, experienced her sound this way on the earlier albums and often could not bear to hear them played. I really never could understand their reactions - to me she always just sounded brilliant and beautiful! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:07:33 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: new member with a question Hi Jeff, Warrior poet, welcome to the list! Yep, Joni's definitely singing about Chelsea in New York City, where she lived for a couple of years in the mid(?) '60s. It's the neighborhood just north of Greenwich Village, on the west side of Manhattan, and is a combination of factories (lots of printing places), townhouses and 5-story walk-up apartment buildings. Most buildings are not very tall and most of them are old (for NY anyway) so the windows are very big -- letting in the city noise and all the sunshine Joni sings about. A section of it is the Flower District and, especially on the avenues, the sidewalks are filled with potted trees and plants to walk through. The name of the neighborhood may have come from Chelsea, England -- does any of this sound like your Chelsea? I think Joni lived on 16th Street. Does anyone know the exact address? And, wasn't someone on the list going to photograph the building for the website? Did that ever happen? If not, I'd be willing to do it if anyone's interested, assuming the actual building still exists. Debra Shea Jerry Notaro wrote: > > "Jeffery W. Osborne" wrote: > > > Greetings Earthlings, > > > > Top of the day to you all! > > I am in the middle of another love-affair with Joni's adorable 'Chelsea > > Morning'. > > I have assumed for 32 years now that she refers to Chelsea, England, and > > have painted many wonderful dreams in my mind about how it must be there. > > But recently someone (Anna Lygoe!) told me about the Chelsea that is in > > New York City, adjacent to Greenwich Village. My bubble didn't pop, but > > now I wonder if someone knows... > > She is definitely referring to the Chelsea section of Manhattan. Joni has > spoken of it often in interviews. Sorry, ol' chap. > > Jerry > > np: Clouds ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:05:16 -0600 From: "Jeffery W. Osborne" Subject: Re: new member with a question Hi Jerry, Thanks for the prompt response to my question about Chelsea. The news is not too hard to swallow, and I may be able to visit the area sometime and re-configure my little dream about the song! Here is one of my favorite Latin phrases - it is an appropriate quote for you: Bis dat qui cito dat. He gives twice who gives promptly. Rave on, Jeff Osborne Warrior Poet ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:59:30 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Distortion on "Court and Spark" kakki wrote: >...to me she always just sounded brilliant and beautiful!> took the words right out of my mouth! *S* pat NP - Free Man In Paris http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:59:31 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Distortion on "Court and Spark" Yours is a complex question but for now I will answer it simply. Picture it this way. Sound is a tangible thing. Invisible but tangible. One can feel it. It has gravity. When you are at a concert you can feel it. Why? because it moves the air. So sound in a concert venue is being produced by huge PA systems. These will sound very very different depending on the system and the room. To the listener. Where is he sitting in the room. Sound reacts very differently depending on the many variables including the other objects IN the same room as the sound.Each room has a different shape and as such affects the sound in it differently. This is why they have sound checks. not to practice the songs but to work out the ambience bugs of the room.Now a recording studio is not only devoid of all the artificial things which can affect the listenable sound but they have many more EFFECTS that they can change the sound with. There is not only electronic things like noise gates, envelope filters, reverb, echo, chorus, phase and reverse phased effects (to name a small number) that will change the sound itself BUT they also have equalization filters which can REALLY change the sound by adding or subtracting bass treble or midrange sounds. there are also multi LAYERS of these things in the recording system. The trick in recording is that (think about this) some sounds cancel out other sounds when they are played back through the system playback. This is called "white noise". SO if one isnt careful the sounds on one track will actually cancel out the sounds on another track or parts of sounds. The bass which sounds rich as chocolate cake when heard by itself suddenly sounds thin and weak when played back with say the sound of a guitar effected a certain way. If the guitar is set up differentlt the bass once again sounds rich in the playback mix. This is the mastery of engineering. This is why some engineers get lots of money and are always busy while others never get a job once they are found to lack this judgement. The master engineers and producers (David Foster in LA for instance [listen to the TUBES "Out of the business into Rock and Roll" if you want to really test your stereo]) have an incredible instinct for knowing or imagining how the end sound of the song will be. Now I have only spoken to the instruments. Throw a voice in there and the same (or worse) thing can happen. Does this answer your question. Live stuff is usually far more sparse than recording studio stuff. Imagine Jonis four piece band versus 64 tracks. Which would sound clearer do you think ? Its more complicated than this even but you get the idea. If not I will explain more. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:06:47 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: new member with a question Hi Jeff ! Welcome to the list! About Chelsea, let's also mention its splendour as a gay cruising area!!!! WallyK >A section of it is the Flower District and, especially on the avenues, >the sidewalks are filled with potted trees and plants to walk through. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:08:42 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: The Magdalene Laundries censored? I finally got out of the hills and ventured an hour south to the great metropolis of Holyoke, Massachusetts, to a Barnes and Noble to check out Joni's track with the Chieftains. I first tried to listen to it at one of those little stations they have set up with headphones but Joni's track cut out after less than a minute. I then asked the clerk if he could play the track for me over the store's stereo system and he obliged. Shortly after Joni sang the line "Most girls come here pregnant, Some by their own fathers", someone approached the clerk and the cd was quickly taken off. I asked the clerk about this and he said, rolling his eyes, that the woman objected to the sexual reference in the song. That probably explains why Barnes and Noble chose to cut out the track so soon into the song also. I'm not sure if this was done to any other track on the Chieftains CD, as I did not have time to go through them all at the listening station. I guess I'll have to spring for the CD in order to listen to the whole track, but I'm not gonna buy it at Barnes and Noble! Those first few seconds sure did sound good! Take care, Gina NP:The Magdalene Laundries on Turbulent Indigo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:29:50 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Favorite Joni album covers and Joni as pimp In a message dated 3/19/99 1:39:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net writes: > My favorite Joni album cover is TI, with C&S a close second. My least > favorite cover is, ironically, my favorite Joni album - FTR! > My favorite Joni cover concept is DJRD - I like having a glimpse of Joni as a child and the line in Paprika Plains that goes with it: "I would tie on colored feathers and I'd beat the drum like war...I would beat the drum like war". And Joni as a pimp is really very charming, in her own odd way! I find it whimsical that she considers herself to be a black man trapped in a woman's body. Anyone have any insight into her thinking on this? Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:30:02 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Distortion on "Court and Spark" Marcel wrote: >Throw a voice in there and the same (or worse) thing can happen. Does this answer your >question. Live stuff is usually far more sparse than recording studio stuff. >Imagine Jonis four piece band versus 64 tracks. Which would sound clearer do >you think ? Yes, most sparser arrangements usually sound clearer to me, whether it is a live performance or a recording. >Its more complicated than this even but you get the idea. If not I >will explain more. Thanks for your explanation. I'm sure it is more complicated than that. Is there also a factor that comes into play where a certain performer may feel "looser" before an audience of fans in a club setting than in the more clinical surroundings of the recording studio which may affect the end result? I guess most professionals, theoretically, should be able to do a standout performance regardless of the setting. But maybe some are affected by their surroundings - more relaxed, inspired, etc., live before friends and less so when under the pressures of performing before the professional recording personnel, belaboring the particular effects sought with the engineer or producer, paying for studio time, etc. In a way, one is more like "play" and one is more like "work." The opposite could be true, also, for performers with stage fright/anxiety, who may perform much better in the studio than before a large crowd. Nervousness or other stress factors often change the strength or clarity of the singing voice. Like P. Henry's experience of Ron Coden's live vs. recorded performance, I also have a singer- songwriter friend who has performed for years and who is just tremendous live, regardless of the setting, acoustics of the room, sound system, etc. Yet on every one of the recordings he has made over the years, whether it be a solo or group performance, and regardless of whether the arrangement is sparse or layered, his voice always sounds flatter and half as good on the recordings as it does live and it makes one wonder why. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:34:28 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: New Stereo? (NJC) Katie: You said you had a pretty decent stereo before. Maybe you need less than you think. Depending on the storage conditions, your old stereo may still be as good as new stuff. Electronics (amps, tuners) should not be affected much by six years of storage. Components with moving parts (tape decks, CD players) could be damaged by moisture, cold or heat. The cardboard cones in speakers could be damaged by moisture, too. Why not hook it up, play a tape you don't care about, and see what happens? You can replace it piece by piece. If it's quality stuff, it should still sound good. The whole question of buying new equipment, I guess, is "How much do you want to spend?". There is literally no limit, with esoteric stereo systems going for $20,000 and more. For the rest of us, a much smaller amount will fetch a nice system. If you were spending less than $350 I would say look for a boom box type system, and listen to them side by side, see how loud they will get and still sound clear. For a larger living room type system, you will want a system with a CD player, perhaps one that can hold several discs, an amplifier that can deliver at least 100 watts/channel, some nice speakers. A subwoofer is nice, too (center speaker that is designed to reproduce low bass frequencies). These often are "powered" meaning they have their own separate built in amplifier, since bass notes need lots of power. Also, if you plan to play LP's, you will want a turntable, and a cartidge. In terms of sound quality, the cartidge is the most important, as turntables are all pretty similar. A good cartridge will run you anywhere from $25-$100. If you plan to play cassettes you will need a deck. Some people are switching to minidiscs- looks like a computer diskette-it's a digital medium with better quality than a regular cassette. They are recordable like a cassette, so you can make your own custom sequences. And what about FM? If that is part of the picture, a receiver with the amplifier built in will take the place of the above amplifier. Then there is the whole DVD/home theater ball of wax. But that's another story!! Hope I haven't said anything too confusing. I recommend getting J&R Music World's catalog. They are in New York, ship all over the US for cheap, charge no sales tax, and have competitive prices, as well as a large computer store/catalog. They have every level of equipment, from $20 walkmans to larger home theater systems. I've never been to their website. To request a catalog, 1-800-221-8180. www.jandr.com aol keyword J&R Even if you don't order from them, you will get a good price guide. The above system would cost about Teac stereo reciever 100w/channel $149 JVC 6 CD changer $199 JVC dual cassette deck $179 Technics turntable w/cartidge $130 Sony portable minidisc recorder/ player (doubles as a super walkman) $200 JBL 3-way speakers (2) $270 JBL subwoofer, powered 120w $250 Sony headphones $90 Terk FM antenna $20 all of the above $1487 I don't have experience with the pro logic system Catman was describing, but as a purist, I am sceptical of electronic circuits that enhance (change the original intended sound of) the music. Then again, I might love it if I heard it. My aim in a system is to get as close as I can to hearing the music the way they heard it in the studio when they were making it. So, reproduced clearly and with plenty of power. Speaker (and listener) placement, and the acoustics of your listening area factor in here, too. Anyway, if I can answer any other questions for you, feel free to ask. RR "Barnicle, Kathryn" wrote: > Apologies for the NJC. I actually think this is my first ever NJC post. > Boy, am I treading on new ground. I have been inspired by Catman's new > speaker occurrence and how great Joni's music sounded. I realize that I > need a new stereo!!!!! My old stereo system was pretty decent but it has > been boxed up in an outdoor shed for about six years now. I'm afraid to > even look in the boxes, lots of mice don'tchaknow. But, as my electronics > intelligence is near nil, how do I go about buying a whole new system? > Where are the best buys? What components do I need? Maybe there is a web > site I could check out?!!? Any suggestions are greatly welcome. Thanks! > > Katie from the Cape (Cod, that is) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:46:24 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Rock n Roll Hall of Fame (NJC) Paul wrote: " Her T-shirt said: "About f-cking time" only there was no dash." Now it makes so much more fucking sense. Thanks for the info Paul. Were you there? Michael ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #124 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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