From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #121 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, March 18 1999 Volume 04 : Number 121 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Bob's groovy tunes (NJC) [evian ] Re: This and that/Hejira ["Kakki" ] Last call for recipes! [M.Russell@iaea.org] Sally Taylor Tour Dates ["Peter Holmstedt" ] maria ["P. Henry" ] Bruce Cockburn on Joni ["Deb Messling" ] Re: This and that [catman ] NJC supporting long haul substantive work ["Tube" ] Re: This and that/Hejira [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Painter as musician - RJC (related Joni content) [Jerry Notaro ] Blue Laws (NJC) ["Don Rowe" ] Re[2]: This and that [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Hejira lyrics [Phyliss Ward ] JMDL Cookbook statistics [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: This and that ["Don Rowe" ] Today in Joni History - March 17 [Today in Joni History ] NJC:Tinky Winky(not for those with no sense of humour) [Bounced Message <] Re: JMDL Cookbook statistics [Bounced Message ] A two year old convert (SJC) [Bounced Message ] Misinterpreted lyrics thread (NJC) [Bounced Message ] A 2 year old convert (SJC) [Bounced Message ] Today in Joni History - March 18 [Today in Joni History ] Re: This and that ["Don Rowe" ] RE: Re: This and that [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Re: Bob's groovy tunes (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] university challenge(SJC) [Gertus@aol.com] RE: Re: This and that ["Don Rowe" ] Re[2]: JMDL Cookbook statistics [Bounced Message ] Re: A 2 year old convert (SJC) [Bounced Message ] Re: (NJC) Crocodile Hunter ["Sarah Whitaker (ADC Administration)" ] Kirsty MacColl (NJC) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Blasphemy!! (Hejira content) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Fw: Hejira penis? [AzeemAK@aol.com] Fabulous Sex Music or...(SJC) [Zapuppy@webtv.net (Rick & Penny Gibbons)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:06:28 -0600 From: evian Subject: Bob's groovy tunes (NJC) > Bob > > NP: The Alarm "Knife Edge" > Bob, Your always playing great tunes! You are taking me down memory lane lately, especially the Alarm, which I thought was the be-all and end-all of albums when I was in Grade 10! Can I come and raid your collection? ;) Evian np: "Once Upon a Time" -- Simple Minds (The Alarm and Simple Minds go hand-in-hand!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:07:19 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: This and that/Hejira Debra wrote: >Hejira was bland and extremely disappointing to me when I first heard >it. I listened and remember thinking, that's it?! I couldn't hear any >difference in the songs, especially Song for Sharon, Refuge and Hejira; >even Amelia didn't stand out. It was so shocking to me that I couldn't >get into this new album, when I had instantly loved all the earlier >ones This is the first time I've read someone else express exactly how I felt about the album, but was too reticent to say on the list. I also was disappointed when I first heard it and felt somehow like Joni had really become world-weary. In a way, I guess did not like her "growing up" - there was a sad, somber and ponderous feeling in the album to me. The black and white cover that most people think is so beautiful only added to my feeling of depression about it all. After I joined the list and saw so many people rate it as their favorite, I was compelled to listen to it again more carefully. The perspective of twenty years past did help me appreciate it more and I agree that it contains her best lyrics but I still preferred most of her other albums. However, when I heard her perform several of the songs from Hejira live in concert and at the tapings, I finally "got" it and was overwhelmed by the beauty of them. It is a masterpiece, but, of all her albums, this one took me the longest amount of time to truly appreciate! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:08:59 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Last call for recipes! I'm extending the deadline for recipe submissions to midnight, Sunday, March 21. The completed cookbook will be sent to Joni, so if you want to be included, please send me a recipe or two!!! Please try to Jonify your recipe titles by using part of Joni's lyrics or song titles. I can provide a list of the current recipe titles so that you don't repeat anything. In addition to the recipes, the book will include bios of each contributor. Please submit your biographical information with your recipes. Your bio can be free-form, but most contributors have used a format similar to the bios which you can find at: http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/jmdlbios.htm http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/jmdlbios1.htm Many thanks to all of the contributors. There are some great recipes in the book and I think Joni will get a kick out of it and probably use it. I'd also like to especially thank Don Rowe for designing the cover page and Marilyn Urbanski for her lovely painting of Joni. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:12:25 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Sally Taylor Tour Dates http://www.westword.com/1999/031199/music1.html Sally Taylor Tour Schedule : 03/18/99 San Diego CA Casbah 03/19/99 Santa Ana CA Galaxy Theatre 03/20/99 W Hollywood CA Troubadour 03/23/99 San Francisco CA Hotel Utah 03/24/99 Mill Valley CA Sweetwater Saloon 03/26/99 Portland OR White Eagle 03/27/99 Seattle WA Sit & Spin 03/31/99 Crested Butte CO Center For The Arts 04/08/99 Frisco CO Barkley's 04/10/99 Denver CO Tuft Theatre 04/22/99 Boulder CO T B A 04/23/99 Colorado Springs CO Colorado Music Hall ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:32:42 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: maria maria, HI!!!! ...and I would like to say thanks to YOU for your beautiful and happy message making our list a MUCH nicer place to be and I hope you will accept out wish for love and peace for you too! *S* pat NP: Raised On Robbery http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:45:33 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Bruce Cockburn on Joni Bruce Cockburn just did a benefit at the Old Town School of Folk Music (remember, the place where somebody yawned at Joni?) Bruce, an extraordinary guitar player, has never talked about Joni to my knowledge, but here's what he said at the show (from the BC mailing list): Somewhere in here BC commented that he is "using nearly as many tunings as Joni Mitchell." He said he used to feel you should just stick to one tuning. But he now realizes that changing the tunings leads to you coming up with musical ideas and figures you wouldn't get otherwise. "Joni had it figured out a long time ago. Some of us are just slow learners." Deb Messling ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:42:50 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: This and that John-I feel this way about Mingus. No matter how many times I have listened to it, I still cannot get into it. Hejira I also did not like when I first heard it back in 76. I shelved it. I din't listen again till 94 and now it is one of my favourite albums by Joni. SFS and Amelia being my faves. Taste is taste. Some love Hejira, others don't. Some think Mingus is seminal, I don't. Some people even cannot stand Joni herself! I have always found it very odd that people defend their music or musicians to people who don't agree with them. One, you can't change someones taste by telling them they are wrong and two, what the hell difference does it make anyhow? I have read people going on about what a great bass there is on Hejira(confused me as I thought they mmeant the big thing you play between your legs-bass guitar I would have understtod) and how brilliant the player Jaques whatisname was. To me that is all nither here nor there. I know nothing about that stuff. I am sure I would notice the lack of the bass guitar if it wasn't there. To me, if I like the sound of something, I like it. Whether or not it was played/sung /written by the worlds greatest is meaningless to me. Sometimes, when I read others, or hear others, or watch others, pontifciating about a particular artist, or singer, or actor, por directore or whatever, I often get the impression that they say far more about themselves than what they are talking about. Like 'look at me and how great my taste is' or'how intelligent ia m' or 'how artistic i am'. All a load of balls really. Posing pseuds. Often I think all that just turns one off the product!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:03:51 +0100 From: "Tube" Subject: NJC supporting long haul substantive work Don wrote - >the industry's "star maker machinery", that creates and feeds on fleeting, >ephemeral trends and gimmickery rather than supporting substantive work >for the long haul. >Which is another way of saying that for every Joni Mitchell, there are >dozens of Brittany Spears, Tiffanys, Debbie Gibsons, Brandys/Monicas, >Spice Girls, Go-Gos, Bangles, New Kids on the Blocks, Backstreet Boys, >Big Bad Voodoo Daddies, Vanillas Ices, Milli Vanillis, Shelia Es, Sheena >Eastons, Ushers, Jewels, Flocks of Seagulls, Mister Misters, Toni >Basils, Dexies Midnight Runners, Men at Works, Peter Framptons ... you >get the picture. Well.... not quite. Dexy's and Men at Work were serious bands who produced substantive work. And Toni Basil's a hard working girl with a creative-control palette that went right across the entertainment spectrum. Like Teena Marie, Paula Abdul and a couple of other early-to-mid eighties dance diva's, she could have been a contender but was totally eclipsed by Madonna at a time when there was really only room for one white disco queen. As for supporting substantive work for the long haul, I'm sorry, but it's a commercial world out there. More power to Joni, the Fleetwoods, Stones etc if they can still cut the mustard, I'll back them all the way, but the record-buying market is a teenage one. The biggest sales are in the 13 to 21 age group, and a young person will change his musical tastes two or three times throughout that period: At first he'll buy only top of chart stuff and tennybopper novelty records. Then he'll get a couple of favourite bands of which he'll buy everthing that they release over a two or three year period. And by the time he's ready to graduate from University he'll have matured some. moved on to different bands, and possibly be specialising in a particular genre or dabbling in other shades of music. He'll still be faithful to the idols of his middle and late periods, but to a less frenetic degree. This means that for every generation of teenagers, there are about three 'sub-generations' lasting three years each. That's why almost no popular music artist lasts more than two or three years at the top - BECAUSE THEIR TEENAGE AUDIENCE SIMPLY GETS BORED WITH THEM AND GROWS OUT OF THEM. Also, the fickleness of teenagers will deliberately boycott an artist that's passe by a year or two because of peer pressure, even if they like the artist.As a teenager I always liked Frank Sinatra but didn't want to be seen in a record shop buying Sinatra. When you were 17 did you buy the music your parents liked? What would that be, Perry Como? Of course you didn't. Highschool kid's today are not gonna rush out to buy Taming the Tiger by the boxload. We can't expect them to. Thus we cannot expect the record companies to spend billions on hyping every new Joni album into the top twenty. Record companies concern themselves with supplying the teenage market with a completely new stable of artists every three years. Because they know that it's cheaper to hype a new artist than an old artist to a new generation of 15 year olds. After that it's sink or swim for the older artists. If they're good and have established a major following, the record company will be glad to keep them on board. But if an artist hasn't made a lasting impression (and lets face it, in commercial terms, record sales are a pretty infallible acid test of this), then, as was said of Paulie Gatto in The Godfather "Oh, Paulie - won't see him no more". Tamla Motown collapsed as a major player because Berry Gordy didn't understand the three year rule. Between 1964 and 1970 they added almost no new acts to the stable apart from the Jackson 5. Six years was too long to wait to add a new artist. At 13 I felt like I'd been hearing The Four Tops for most of my life and I wasn't about to go shopping for a Four Tops single - I wanted something NEW. As the popular music biz gets more sophisticated and established in our culture, clever players like Madonna and George Michael can work the system to survive longer at the top than their alloted three years, but these are the exception rather than the rule. The record industry is not set up for artists engaged in 'the long haul'. It's the massive record sales of the current generation of flash in the pan pop stars that help pay for the board and lodging of the old dogs. Or put another way, an artist's earnings while they were at the top can secure a kind of pension for them. Or put another way, the industry's star maker machinery that creates and feeds on fleeting, ephemeral trends and gimmickery is the very machinery that DOES support substantive work for the long haul. Artists who have earned big bucks for their company deserve to be rewarded and certainly not ripped off for their back-catalogue. Whilst I'm sure there are many examples of unethical penny-pinching by record-companies against vintage artists, and many stars of yeateryear that are now on skid-row, I think that on the whole, for the truly talented and hard-working artist, the system works. It's a tough world and anyone who still has a roof over their head and is able to spend most of their time doing what they enjoy has got a good deal going for themselves. Tube ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:21:48 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: This and that/Hejira In a message dated 3/17/99 3:19:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << After I joined the list and saw so many people rate it as their favorite, I was compelled to listen to it again more carefully. >> Sorry for the "me too", but this is what happened to me as well. It took me over 20 years to finally appreciate this masterpiece. When it first came out, I pretty much shelved it for all the same reasons. Last year, I discovered it after hearing everyone rave about it and now it's one of, if not THE favorite of all her works. Brilliance. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:59:51 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Painter as musician - RJC (related Joni content) Mark, A bunch of we Jmdler's went to see Chuck's exhibit last November. It was a side trip from the Van Gogh exhibit and the Joni concert at the University of Maryland. We went at the strong recommendation of resident NYC Jmdler Patrick Leader. He was the first contemporary artist whose exhibit so enthralled me. Julie Webb and I spent a long time staring at his realistic detail with amazement. A wonderful show. Jerry np: Linda Ronstadt - Feels Like Home ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:42:45 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Hejira lyrics johnm writes: <> John, I'll agree that with very, very few exceptions every Joni tune has something going for it. Either the lyrics, the melodies, or the instrumentation are exceptional, and when she hits on all three simultaneously, (which she does a lot IMO) she is literally without peer. I'm dumbfounded that you don't find the Hejira lyrics to be notable. Not to say that you're wrong or not entitled to your opinion or anything like that, because it's a personal thing. Do keep listening! I remember when I bought the album and began listening to it...there were *so many* words that the album had to fold out to contain them! I remember being astounded at the mere quantity of words, and then as I began to listen & listen & listen was even further amazed at the lyrical *quality*. Certain phrases are so unique, I used to think about how a lesser writer would describe the same things, for instance, instead of "between the forceps and the stone", the vast majority of writers would say "between birth and death" or something equally mundane. Indeed, I was going to post a few of my favorite lyrics, but in looking at them, it's hard to determine what to select as one brilliant phrase sets up another! But here are a couple that strike me as being infinitely superior to what 99% of others can come up with... "There's no comprehending, just how close to the bone and the skin and the eyes and the lips you can get and still feel so alone" "I wish that he was here tonight - it's so hard to obey his sad request of me to kindly stay away" "Pawn shops glitter like gold tooth caps, in the grey decay they chew the last few dollars off old Beale Street's carcass" (Any other writer would be so proud of the first part they'd stop at 'gold tooth caps', but Joni goes on to complete the metaphor and expand it) "Just when I think he's foolish and childish, and I want him to be manly, I catch my fool and my child, needing love & understanding" "You & me are like America & Russia, we're always keeping score, we're always balancing the powers, and that can get to be a cold, cold, war" (Sidenote: when we talked to Joni after Atlanta, we were talking about her upcoming Standards project - I commented that I always felt that "Blue Motel Room" sounded like a torch song, a real standard and she should cover it with orchestration on an album of standards. She said that if she did she'd have to change the lyric about America & Russia since it was no longer relevant, I don't agree with her on that but I'm certainly not going to question her judgement - she is after all a genius!!). Anyway, I'll stop here - I could almost literally type up the entire album's worth of lyrics. Joni was really "in the zone" when she wrote these songs, just like an athlete when they're outperforming even themselves, she was in a whole other place with Hejira. Bob NP: Talking Heads "People Like Us" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:20:06 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Nancy Wilson cover's Joni For those interested, Heart is doing a short tour this summer and the concerts will be all acoustic. My tickets are for July 17th. Jerry Rick & Penny Gibbons wrote: > Hey all, > > I confess sometimes I only scan the digest for reads of interest, so I > don't know if this has been mentioned or not, forgive me if it has. In > our paper tonight they did a review of Nancy Wilson's (Heart fame) new > solo cd "Live at McCabe's Guitar Shop." In it they made quick mention > that Nancy covered "A Case of You". Buzzed on over to Amazon.com and > took a listen to their little blub of the cover....for Nancy's sake I > hope the rest is better than what I heard! : -( > > Lazy lurker > Penny > > NP Joni's "A Case of You" ahh, much better!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:47:28 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: (NJC) Crocodile Hunter Sarah says: <> Maybe not, Sarah, but you *do* have Steve Irwin, the Crocodile Hunter...by cracky, he's a ripper!! :~) << We don't have a southern bible belt like in the US.>> You ain't missin' much either - I live right in the buckle of the belt... Bob, who can't buy a cold beer on Sundays thanks to our blue laws. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:01:35 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Joni in Judy Collins "Singing Lessons" Maybe I'm just hopelessly behind the times (just like this train!), but I'm just finishing up "Singing Lessons", Judy Collins' amazingly emotional autobiography. It's not easy to read, as it deals very honestly with excruciatingly painful personal experiences, but there are more than a few Joni mentions I found interesting ... Apparently Bill Clinton confided in Judy that Chelsea is, in fact, named in honor of her rendition of Joni's "Chelsea Morning". Please feel free to attach whatever face value you like to this comment ... Here's an interesting bit. After many years living with the same man, Judy finally decides to get married -- to which Joni's response is, "I can't believe you're still such a romantic!" Now this would have been during the Larry years ... which is why the comment strikes me as curious. Joni herself was waxing plenty romantic in those days! There are more, but I won't spoil them for those who might be interested in reading the book, which is beautifully written. I highly recommend it to any Judy fans, as well as those interested in "the good old days" of '60s Greenwich Village, the beginnings of the folk movement, and that delicious madness of the times. Don Rowe Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:10:20 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Blue Laws (NJC) I couldn't resist your mention of the "blue laws", as I remember that for years growing up in Texas, you couldn't buy beer on Sunday, but if you had one left over from Saturday night, it was perfectly legal to drink it in the car on the way to church, since there was no "open container" law on the books. I think Lori mentioned that they have now finally taken away the god-given, inalienable right to drink and drive ... oh brother! Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Don Rowe Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:13:29 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: This and that Colin states: <> Colin, while I agree with you on the "like" level, I think it's important to delineate "liking" something and "appreciating" something. Obviously, none of us have to "like" anything, but we have the opportunity to allow ourselves to grow by "appreciating" it. I don't care for opera, but I do go on occassion and listen to it and I can appreciate good opera. Likewise, you don't have to like Joni's words on Hejira or Jaco's bass guitar, but I think it's important to be able to appreciate the level of the lyricism and the innovation of the sounds that Jaco creates. The difference it makes, in my mind, anyhow, is that you grow intellectually and emotionally by digging below the banal surface of "I don't like that". If that makes me some kind of pompous poseur, than I guess I'm guilty... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:24:58 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Hejira lyrics Some of my favorites... A defector from the petty wars that shell-shock love away I know, noone's gonna show me everything, we all come and go unknown Each so deep and superficial, between the forceps and the stone At a highway service station, over the month of June Was a photograph of the earth taken coming back from the moon And you couldn't see a city on that marbled bowling ball Or a forest, or a highway, or me here, least of all I can keep my cool at poker, but I'm a fool when love's at stake Because I can't conceal emotion, what I'm feeling's alway written on my face Just incredible!!! Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: > Indeed, I was going to post a few of my favorite lyrics, but in looking at > them, it's hard to determine what to select as one brilliant phrase sets up > another! But here are a couple that strike me as being infinitely superior > to what 99% of others can come up with... - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:39:03 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: JMDL Cookbook statistics The cookbook has 51 contributors and 80 recipes so far. There must be more than 51 people out of the 600+ members of the list who have a favorite recipe they could contribute! Come one now! Send in your recipe! Don't be shy! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:32:15 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: This and that John writes ... >The thing I like most about JM's music is that even when she foists >an occasional inane non-melody on us, the lyric often makes up for it >in droves. Whatever are you talking about? I'll agree that Joni's melodic sense isn't anywhere nearly as *conventional* as McCartney's ... or Rogers and Hammerstein if you want to be really "pure" -- but your choice of words like "foist", "inane non-melody" betrays one of two things -- an inflexible hautuer or a basic misconception of lyrical composition. Perhaps you'd care to decorate your stark assertions with some specific examples ... Don Rowe Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:30:00 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - March 17 1988: Today, Timothy White interviewed Joni in a studio in North Hollywood. The interview remained unpublished until is was later used in a book called "Rock Lives". In the interview, Joni says "I prefer to see life as an undulating force—which is more an Oriental process of perception. I disagree with Western thought, with its mind/body split, its good/evil split. You have to cultivate a dialogue with life that's less judgmental, yet has a greater attention span. I'm still living in the days of radio; I'm not a channel-changer. I'll watch anything on TV because moving pictures fascinate me, as does conversation." Read the entire article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/tw880317.htm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:08:28 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: NJC:Tinky Winky(not for those with no sense of humour) From: claud_loren_carter@ccMail.Census.GOV Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:49:32 -0500 Catman, Very funny stuff there. Made me laugh on a cold and windy wintery DC morning at the office. All of my childhood favorites exposed for what they "are". How will I do on, knowing the "truth" about them. Woe is me. I do wonder why someone on Falwell's staff did not have the backbone to tell him "this is a waste of time" or "don't you have something really important to postulate on" or a simple "don't go there, you're opening yourself up to widespread ridicule." Then again, why would one of his "yes-men" ever think to talk back to their lord and master. And to think, people actually do send these types of pompus loud mouths lots of $$$. I was wondering....in Britain and Australia (and the rest of the world for that matter), are these types of religious beggar programs on the regular TV. Loren..... P.S....What about Tom and Jerry? NP....Born in the USA....BRUCE!!! (hoping that this will help to wake up the three remaining brain cells in that cranial cavity) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:10:11 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook statistics From: claud_loren_carter@ccMail.Census.GOV Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:13:00 -0500 Marian, I'll take your plea for recipies home and ask my wife to submit one of her/our favorites. Tell me about the biography that should be included. Loren.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:08:04 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: A two year old convert (SJC) From: claud_loren_carter@ccMail.Census.GOV All, Thought I'd pass along this occurance that happened last night After dinner, my son and I went upstairs to play in his room. He just turned two in December. My wife stayed down stairs to clean up. Since she was down stairs alone, she put on Joni's greatest hits CD and turned up the music (loud enough so that we could hear it upstairs). My son was busily playing with his bulldozer, dump truck, blocks, and assorted stuffed things, when, after Chelsea Morning ended, and before Woodstock started, he stood up, dropped the toys from his hands, and started to clap. He was giving our Ms. Joni a standing ovation. I called to my wife, and told her was happening. She ran upstairs, picked Joshua up, hugged him, and marveled at his taste in music. Loren.... NP...Chelsea Morning...JM (savoring last nights' Joshua monent) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:08:52 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Misinterpreted lyrics thread (NJC) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:19:38 -0600 From: ROBERT A SHARP This thread struck a chord. I can remember how thankful I was the first time an album came with the lyrics were included on the sleeve. Especially I liked the ones where the artist appeared to have written them out him/herself. At the time I was listening to a lot of Joni and Laura Nyro. I guess I had a wooden ear and used to misinterpret just about everything. This thread reminded me of a piece I heard years ago on NPR news about preschoolers' rendition of the pledge of allegiance. For the line "with liberty and justice for all," one child substituted "with Lipton Tea and cupcakes for all." It made his/her country sound like the nicest one ever. Still enjoying all your Joni commentary, especially the Joni "apologetics." I have learned more about her in the past six months than I even dreamed in the prior 30 years. The Lurker formerly known as Bob (not Dylan) np: Chant - I'm at work ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:09:30 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: A 2 year old convert (SJC) From: claud_loren_carter@ccMail.Census.GOV Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:53:05 -0500 All, Thought I'd pass along this occurance that happened last night After dinner, my son and I went upstairs to play in his room. He just turned two in December. My wife stayed down stairs to clean up. Since she was down stairs alone, she put on Joni's greatest hits CD and turned up the music (loud enough so that we could hear it upstairs). My son was busily playing with his bulldozer, dump truck, blocks, and assorted stuffed things, when, after Chelsea Morning ended, and before Woodstock started, he stood up, dropped the toys from his hands, and started to clap. He was giving our Ms. Joni a standing ovation. I called to my wife, and told her was happening. She ran upstairs, picked Joshua up, hugged him, and marveled at his taste in music. Loren.... NP...Chelsea Morning...JM (savoring last nights' Joshua monent) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:31:00 -0700 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - March 18 1997: (from an "AllStar" press release) "Speaking of classic rock, some old familiar faces showed up at the launch party for the new magazine Entertainment at Home Tuesday night at the swank Beverly Hills restaurant Chasen's. Joni Mitchell and former Steely Dan guitarist Jeff "Skunk" Baxter were among the celebs hamming it up." - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:17:07 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: This and that >Well, I've been a professional writer for 20 years, am a published poet, >and also have very solid musical training, so I guess that leaves only the >"inflexible hauteur". I stand corrected. I forgot a third possibility -- "intentionally antagonistic." >Get WTRF, take your pick, and come back to me. Let's see, "The Chinese Cafe" -- an "Unchained Melody" that Joni didn't write, but adapted lyrically to her own experience. Does that one still count? "Wild Things Run Fast" -- no more/less inane melodically than say, "Drive My Car", "Peggy Sue", "Hound Dog" or any other four-chord fun-rockin' C-F-D-G song ever recorded. "Ladies' Man" -- One of the more melodically conventional songs on the album. Unless you consider "Stormy Weather", "My Man" and other jazz-inflected torch songs "inane" -- I have a hard time seeing this one qualify. "Moon at the Window" -- see "Ladie's Man." "Solid Love" -- Your assertions miss me on this one too. A modified Motown swing -- straightforward. Again, melodically conventional, and singable in a way one sings or whistles while cleaning house. "Be Cool" -- Unless it's that 'fire and ice' whisper in the background here, this is just another club jazz quartet mid-tempo number. There's a bit of borrowing from the "West Side Story" number "Cool" in here, as well. Or do you find "West Side Story" melodically inane? "Baby, I Don't Care" -- Another melody Joni didn't write, but simply adapted. See "The Chinese Cafe." "You Dream Flat Tires" -- I've got a sneaking suspicion that this is the number you were referring to all along. Oddly enough, it's the melody, or rather, the inner choral harmony line turned INTO the melody that strikes me as interesting in this song. It's the lyrics that are the weak point. That and the fact that Larry makes a very pale comparison to Jaco ... but who doesn't? "Man to Man" -- As with the 'fire and ice' chant in "Be Cool", I think the warbling through the choruses might be a bit much in this one. But it's not weak melodically -- just a bit overly baroque in its execution, if anything. "Underneath the Streetlight" -- Hmmmm -- I guess the jaded and cynical would point to such outbursts as inane. I guess I find the kicking up of heels forgiveable. So forgive me ... "Love" -- Lyrical and gentle, both melody and lyrics fit into a very singalbe and memorable package here. Nothing inane about it. >Sorry my statement sent you into a foth, but your response sounds like that >of a worshiper whose goddess has been insulted. I prefer a warts-and-all >examination of the artist, so learn to deal with it. Oh I fully realize that Joni isn't twelve feet tall, doesn't cast an etheral light wherever she goes. Her feet, do in fact, touch the ground she walks on. And she has a great many warts -- her constant whining and kvetching in the media. Her "monumental ego", founded justly and un-, her unswerving unwillingness to sit down at a piano, an instrument she played once with consumate ability. Her co-opting of classic poetry, when her own is so good, has always been a sore spot with me, as have her forays into Biblical scripture. I just feel that her melodic sense isn't one of her warts. It is, in fact, one of her greatest and most consistent strengths. See ... I'm over it! Don Rowe Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:52:36 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Re: This and that Don Rowe wrote: <<<"Wild Things Run Fast" -- no more/less inane melodically than say, "Drive My Car", "Peggy Sue", "Hound Dog" or any other four-chord fun-rockin' C-F-D-G song ever recorded.>>> Actually, I disagree here, most vociferously with "Drive My Car." The Beatles melody in this case dwarfs Joni's for catchiness, listening pleasure, and sheer fun value (IMO). The four-chord structure doesn't necessarily dictate inane melodies--in fact, the simple chord structure in some ways allows for more adventurous melodies than a complex one. Most specifically, the movement from the relatively simple "Baby I love you" into the woozy "Beep beep, beep beep yeah" line is divine IMO, and rarely matched in pop music, much less "WTRF." - --Michael, apologizing if he mistranscribed the onomotopoeia (or misspelled it ;-) ) P.S. I find John Mitchell's posts refreshing and not in the slightest lacking in respect. Strongly held opinions are part of the fabric that keeps this list interesting. If you read him (or anyone) expecting to be insulted, you will be. If you don't, you won't. My 2 cents on that. NP: memories of last night's transcendant Lauryn concert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:55:18 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Bob's groovy tunes (NJC) evian writes: << You are taking me down memory lane lately, especially the Alarm, which I thought was the be-all and end-all of albums when I was in Grade 10! >> I really liked them too, even with their big hair! And their music still sounds good! I'm having a fun time dusting off these old 70's & 80's cassettes and giving 'em a spin - like you say, there's a lot of memories there... << Can I come and raid your collection? ;)>> Mi collecion, tu collecion!! :~D Bob NP: Cornershop "Sleep on the Left Side" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:56:58 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: university challenge(SJC) There's a program on UK TV called University Challenge which features teams of 4 students from British universities competing against each other in a general knowledge quiz. The questions are wide ranging and tend to be fairly tough by quiz show standards. In this evening's music round the students were played 3 short clips of music which were all settings of poems and in each case the poet had to be identified. After 2 clips which I hadn't a clue about I was thinking that by rights, Joni's adaptation of Yeats should be on this, when suddenly, sure enough, they were playing "Slouching"! Unfortunately, the team, who had excelled themselves on the earlier questions, gave the answer as Ted Hughes! Here's another piece of University Challenge trivia. Which superb British singer and Joni fan appeared on the program as a contestant for Oxford University in 1968? Answer - June Tabor. Not everyone knows that! Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:04:01 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: RE: Re: This and that Michael joins the "inanity" -- ;-) >Most specifically, the >movement from the relatively simple "Baby I love >you" into the woozy "Beep beep, beep beep yeah" >line is divine IMO, and rarely matched in pop >music, much less "WTRF." Turn it around. I find the woozy "eating from her hand at last" calm into the vault of the refrain "Wild things run fast" equally divine. Of course, I'm a child product of Maurice Sendak -- and that may have a GREAT deal to do with my love of WTRF (the song). The comparison to "Drive My Car" was not meant to demean my favorite song off my favorite Beatles album in any way, shape or form. >P.S. I find John Mitchell's posts refreshing and >not in the slightest lacking in respect. >Strongly held opinions are part of the fabric that >keeps this list interesting. If you read him (or >anyone) expecting to be insulted, you will be. >If you don't, you won't. My 2 cents on that. > Oh, I'm not insulted nor do I think J Mitchell lacks respect, don't get me wrong. But I do recognize a thrown gauntlet when I see one -- just happened to pick this one up! Don Rowe Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:20:20 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re[2]: JMDL Cookbook statistics From: claud_loren_carter@ccMail.Census.GOV Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:33:53 -0500 I apologize if this has been received by the masses already, but I seem to be having problems communicating with the list. I'll see if I can figure it out from here (being a geek, that's what I do) sorry, Loren..... NP...I want to Rock and Roll all night..KISS (but not too loud, I'm at work) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:21:14 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: A 2 year old convert (SJC) From: claud_loren_carter@ccMail.Census.GOV Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:39:14 -0500 Again, Sorry if this have arrived already, but it came back and was thrown in my face. Being an anal, persistent bastard, I try again. I do hope that if this did get through already, that I'm not too annoying of the assembled masses. If so I'll quit trying and accept my lot in life, NOT!!!! Loren..... NP....Vivaldi...Concerto in A Minor ...gotta come down from the rafters after the KISS song ended. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:07:10 +1000 From: "Sarah Whitaker (ADC Administration)" Subject: Re: (NJC) Crocodile Hunter Bob says: <> WHAT! No beer on Sunday's! That's considered an abomination in the eyes of the Aussie citizens. What are blue laws anyway? Reminds me of a song by country singer, Slim Dusty recorded in the 1950's, written about a pub that's run out of beer. Most country towns center around the Public House or Pub and for it to run out of beer would be catastrophic: "There's nothing so lonesome, morbid or drear', Than to sit in the bar of a Pub with no Beer." "Billy the Blacksmith, for the first time in his life, Came home cold sober to his Darlin' Wife, She said, "You're home early my dear" Then he broke down and told her, 'The Pub's got no Beer!' " ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:04:13 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - Sam Cooke and other covers In a message dated 3/12/99 5:12:31AM, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << By the way, I actually like Carole's version of "Natural Woman" better - sorry! >> Helen! That'll be 3 Hail Marys for you, and to bed with no supper! OK, overstated just a tad, and I do like Carole King's version a lot, but for me the middle 8 ("Oh Baby what you done to me") of Aretha's version is what makes the difference. The combination of her voice, her rolling piano and that orgasmic (and I use the word advisedly given what the song is so clearly about) string arrangement give me goose pimples every time. Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:07:22 -0700 From: katej Subject: RJC > Carleton: > from the remote plains of Canada this is for interest's sake, not because I am offended that you don't know your geography! I'm not. It is commonly thought, even by many Canadians, that Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba are called prairie provinces because they are flats, or plains. However, that is true only in the southern parts of the provinces, where indeed the plains spread out flat for as far as the eye can see, except for the odd river valley and accompanying hills. If you look on your map and let your eye travel about halfway up the province of Saskatchewan from the U.S. border, you will come to Saskatoon, which is situated in Parkland(as opposed to Prairie). Parkland spreads east and west from there to the outer edges of the neighbouring provinces; it contains farmers' fields and mildly rolling land, with quite alot of bush breaking up the wide vistas. > Bob: > appreciate the emotional depth of not just this line but the whole record. the pictures Joni paints in words do seem to touch the soul, don't theywhat a mistress of imagery she is, evoking emotions and relationships that we recognize > Jen writes: > "how do you stop a baby being born...?" if it were me asking the question, it would have been when i was in hard labour and wishing with all my heart that it could be stopped , because it damn well HURTS! and there is no way of wangling out of it once that baby decides to be born, darn it! > > > Scott wrote: > > >The magazine dubbed HOSL "worst album title of the year," > > > Well obviously they don't know what the hell they are talking about. That phrase is a great piece of imagery --I can just HEAR that hissing! Kate of the North ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:26:17 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Kirsty MacColl (NJC) In a message dated 3/15/99 6:55:16PM, Ginamu@aol.com writes: << After Kite came Electric Landlady in 1991, which I own and still play frequently. There are a number of "hits" on it, including a song called Walking Down Madison, which received a lot of airplay on my local station (they love her). Then I guess Virgin records dropped her and she's put on some compilation stuff and at least two other releases but I don't recall hearing anything on my station from those. Don't know the record labels either. >> The one after Electric Landlady is called "Titanic Days", and is similarly excellent, the title song in particular being one of my favourite of her songs. It was released in 1993, and I've just looked at my copy and see that it's actually an American copy, and came out on IRS (7243 8 27214 20). Way before "Kite", she had a hit in the UK in the early 80s with "There's a Guy Works Down the Chip Shop Swears He's Elvis"; her first album was called "Desperate Character", and the only other thing I know about it is that it included a cover of the Beach Boys' "You Still Believe in Me". One of her biggest hits was also a cover, Billy Bragg's "A New England". A great woman! Azeem, seriously intending my next post to have some JC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:26:27 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Blasphemy!! (Hejira content) In a message dated 3/15/99 11:38:34PM, John.Mitchell@ascend.com writes: << Now, would somebody please tell me what the fascination with Hejira is? I have listened to it maybe 10 times now and am still unimpressed. The Coyote song is OK, but the amorphous make-it-up-as-you-go nature of some of the other songs grows old fast. I'd have to rate this as one of my least favorite Joni albums. >> You're a brave man, John! I'm one of the Hejira lovers (in fact it's my favourite record of all time by anyone). Rather than dissing what you say about it, I thought I'd take this opportunity to share with the list the piece I wrote about Hejira for a competition in Mojo magazine a few years ago, when they were running a greatest-record-ever readers poll. Bits of it appeared in the magazine, and while I don't have any great claims to journalistic brilliance, it expresses my feelings about it and may strike a chord (unresolved, naturally) with some of the other Hejiraphiles. "Hejira - Joni Mitchell The only rational reason for not liking Hejira is that you haven't heard it but are fed up with the cognoscenti droning on about how great it is ("Yeah man, she uses a different tuning for every song"). It's one of those records "they" tell you to like - the "Citizen Kane" of music. Wrong! Hejira is in fact the crowning achievement of a 5-year purple patch to rival any in popular music, starting with 1971's Blue. Hejira is as jazzy as she ever got without sounding mannered (only her most partisan fan could exonerate Mingus from that charge); the supple song structures allowed Joni to sing on, off and around the beat with endlessly fascinating virtuosity. Quite rightly, much hullabaloo is made about the contribution of musicians like Jaco Pastorius and Larry Carlton; often overlooked is the sheer brilliance of Mitchell's own rhythm guitar playing throughout the record. The two songs on which Mitchell, Carlton and Pastorius all play (Coyote and Black Crow) are exquisite. Whether it was the time spent on the road "licking her wounds and taking her temporary lovers", or the cocaine she has professed to using while writing the lyrics, her eloquence nailed down every emotion, while her vibrant imagination effortlessly evoked people and places. Who else could have come up with a line like "I'm porous with travel fever"? For the coup de grace, she even smuggled in a moon/June rhyme - a device later echoed by ardent fan Prince on Sign O' the Times. Hejira was unsurpassable, her "Blood on the Tracks", against which all subsequent releases would be measured and found wanting. The familiar irony is that critics gave Hejira a decidedly frosty reception on its release, yet 1991's "Night Ride Home" received her best reviews in years, critics comparing it favourably with... Hejira!" Azeem in London, nursing a cold. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:26:19 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: Hejira penis? In a message dated 3/15/99 11:34:19PM, paul@tyrer23.freeserve.co.uk writes: << Having said this, I always thought Joni was dribbling on the front cover of Blue... >> Aha!! That's what I always thought too! I've just gone to look at my first edition vinyl copy, and I haven't changed my mind. She's dribbling! Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:02:35 -0800 (PST) From: Zapuppy@webtv.net (Rick & Penny Gibbons) Subject: Fabulous Sex Music or...(SJC) the alternative, much less reader attracting title, "Instrumental Background Music for Reading, Contemplating or Emoting". As great as Joni's lyrics are, sometimes lyrics just sort of get in the way of using one's own mind or heart. Since it gets a little boring to listen to Tiger Bones, DWRD's Overture, the middle of Paprika Plains and The Tenth World over and over, what are some of the other essentials that would fit the bill? The first that pop into my head are Candy Dulfer / Dave Stewart's Lily Was Here, Santana's Aqua Marie, Vivaldi's Four Seasons, anything by Yo Yo Ma and Stevie Ray Vaugh just sends me, emoting that is! (private joke and wink 984!) So what are some of the other faves that are great background music for these purposes? Personally, I'm in "heavy reading and contemplating mode" right now, but considering my husband and I just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary last week, the post's title application may also be appropriate and appreciated but thankfully unnessesary!! ; -) Can hardly wait to hear an earful from you, you punster, brother Bob in SC!!! Playfully contemplative, Penny ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #121 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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