From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #104 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, March 3 1999 Volume 04 : Number 104 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Chicken question [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem [JRMCo1@aol.com] NJC: Beatles CD recommendations [Howard Wright ] FTR, Joni's piano playing ... [Howard Wright ] Re: Crickets (NJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: the chieftans (sjc?) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Roses [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Living Dictionary (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Video Release Delayed [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem [JRMCo1@aol.com] [Fwd: Thanks] [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni's Most Danceable Song ["P. Henry" ] Re: JC-ish: Tattoos are like tattoos ["P. Henry" ] Re: royalties [Randy Remote ] Re: Questions to ask Joni [Gellerray@aol.com] RE: royalties [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Questions to ask Joni ["Don Rowe" ] RE: the chieftans (sjc?) [Michael Yarbrough ] RE: (NJC) cassandra wilson, miles davis, etc [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Roses ["Kakki" ] Re: Beatles and Jane Siberry (NJC) [Marian Russell ] TTT reviewed in Feb. Satellite Times [Bounced Message ] Re: royalties [The Humphreys ] Jazz Fest Info (njc but interesting) [michael paz ] Charlie Angel ["Gene Mock" ] Re: the chieftans (sjc?) ["Gene Mock" ] Re: burundi [Randy Remote ] re: Pretenders (NJC) ["Master Man" ] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: Roses [Randy Remote ] Re: FTR, Joni's piano playing ... [Randy Remote ] re: Stormy Weather (old JC) ["Master Man" ] Re: Jazz Fest Info (njc but interesting) [RMuRocks@aol.com] "Bumrush"... a name, a feeling, a kinky game! (NJC) [Evan + Vanessa Thoms] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem ["Kakki" ] re:FTR and a question ["Angela Takats" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:11:40 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Chicken question On Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:55:26 -0800, wrote * I'm a big Joni fan, but have only 6 of her albums (so far). * Well, seven counting WTRF, but I honestly think that one is * pretty awful. I used to think WTRF was pretty terrible, too, except for Chinese Cafe, until I started trying to learn some of the other songs on my guitar. I really love most of it now - especially Ladies Man, Man To Man, Moon At The Window, and Love. These songs seem very beautiful to me now. I even enjoy Underneath The Streetlight and You Dream Flat Tires and the title cut. This is Joni's rock 'n roll album and I think it probably holds a special place in her heart. I has become one of my favorites. * Anyway, I heard what seemed to be a Joni Mitchell song * on the Radio once and liked it, but haven't heard it since. * All I remember about the song is that toward the end, there * is a spoken part where Joni says something like "I talk all the * time--like a chicken. Brock brock!" Does anybody have any * idea what the line is or what song and album it's from? Any * help would be appreciated. The song you're thinking of is called Talk To Me and its from the album Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. The line is "I'm always talkin' - bock bock bock bock, bock bock bock bock - Chicken squawkin'" Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 04:51:33 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem davidmarine writes: <> Impressive comparative analysis of the Yeats poem and Joni's "Slouching Towards Bethlehem," David. I don't have any issues with Joni adapting the poem and I do believe the song is a powerful musical statement in its own right. But, I'm wondering where you read that the song's title is based on the Didion collection's title? Clearly, the Didion essays' title is based on the Yeats poem, but I have seen nothing to suggest that Joni's song, or its title, is based on anything but "The Second Coming." After all, the poem's final lines are: "In what rough beast, its hour come round at last/ Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born." Having extensively reworked the poem to create the song, it seems to me that the title and refrain is simply Joni's variation on the poem's final statement. Would Joni, having embroiled herself in controversy and legal peril over her adaptation of Yeats, exacerbate the situation by further "borrowing" the title from Didion, a well-known writer who is still alive? Knowing Joni, the answer could well be "yes," but I'd just like to see a citation if you have one. The Didion essays contained in the collection _Slouching Towards Bethlehem_ (1968) convey the poem's themes in a contemporary setting quite remarkably, IMO. I just question whether it was Joni's ambition to duplicate Didion's accomplishment musically. It certainly could have been...but was it? Consider Yeat's original words and Joni's lyrics from "Slouching..." juxtaposed with a passage from Didion's book: Yeats: "The blood-dimmed tide is loosed; and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned. Joni: "Things fall apart The center cannot hold And a blood dimmed tide Is loosed upon the world Nothing is sacred The ceremony sinks Innocence is drowned In anarchy." Now here's Didion's description of a Las Vegas wedding night from _Slouching Towards Bethlehem_: "The marriage had just taken place; the bride still wore her dress, the mother her corsage. A bored waiter poured out a few swallows of pink champagne ("on the house") for everyone but the bride, who was too young to be served. "You'll need something with more kick than that," the bride's father said with heavy jocularity to his new son-in-law; the ritual jokes about the wedding night had a certain Panglossian character, since the bride was clearly several months pregnant. Another round of pink champagne, this time not on the house, and the bride began to cry. "It was just as nice," she sobbed, "as I hoped and dreamed it would be." - -Julius np: Joni live in San Jose, 5/19/98 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:36:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: NJC: Beatles CD recommendations From: M.Russell@iaea.org >I want to replace my vinyl Beatles collection with CDs and I noticed that >there are several collections and anthologies of the Beatles music on the >market. I'm wondering if I should go for the original albums, or if >either the anthologies or collections would be a better choice. Hi Marian As others have said, I think starting with the original albums is the best choice. The anthologies, especially no. 2 and 3, have a lot of interesting out-takes and demos etc, but they are only really interesting when you compare them to the original release. So, I'd start with albums like Rubber Soul, Revolver, Pepper, White Album, Abbey Road ... then maybe think about compilations or the anthologies. Some of the hits are not available on the albums, so you might want to pick up one or two compilations to get hold of some of these. >I was looking >through one of the anthologies (I think it was the third one) with songs >from the White Album and I noticed that not all of the songs from the WA >were included. But I also noticed that on the first anthology it seemed >like there were a lot of song titles included that I've never heard >before. Yes - the anthologies are a mixture of demos, out-takes, live recordings etc. The first one has quite a few early rock'n'roll songs that the Beatles used to play in their early years. The second has a lot of *very* interesting stuff - early demos of strawberry fields, and one or two oddities that never made it to any of the albums. The third has a lot of white album material, plus later stuff from Abbey Road and Let it Be. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:53:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: FTR, Joni's piano playing ... From: "paul tyrer" >the blue/ftr/C&S series of albums is unsurpassed? Nah, mate, it's the >C&S, HoSL,HEJIRA series that's unsurpassed. She was at her most >brilliant then IMHO. FTR was a gasp for breath after the fab Blue. As >for her piano playing being the best on FTR I play piano and I find the >tracks on HoSL the hardest to get my fingers round. Anyone else out >there agree? The trio of C&S, HoSL and Hejira is a classic collection of albums, no doubt. I'm also a huge fan of FTR, not just because musically and lyrically it is has so much to offer, but also because it seemed to mark a distinct and very important change in Joni's attitude. Let's not forget, she was all ready to quit the music biz for good, and listening to some of the songs on FTR, it's easy to understand why. FTR is a fascinating document of this - her "toughening up" period. I think that with FTR Joni could spit out her bitterness at the music biz, and it also allowed her to come to terms with many changes in her personal life. Her relationship with James Taylor certainly left a mark, and she also sings very movingly about the conflicts she felt - wanting to "settle down and raise a child up with somebody" and then "it passes like the summer, I'm a wild seed again ..." By creating a creative channel to express all these emotions, I think it freed her up and allowed her to produce C&S. Without FTR, C&S would have been a very different album, no doubt. From: michael paz >I don't perform any of the >songs on FTR on GTR or piano, which is strange to me because I relate to >so many of the themes of that record. Most of those songs I have found >too difficult to play and sing at the same time. FTR is definitely something of a peak in Joni's piano playing. I've been playing Banquet for a few months now, and it's almost there - but it's definitely much more of a challenge than her piano songs from Blue. In C&S and HoSL her piano style got a little more jazzy, and more fluid - but because she is playing with a big band, the piano somehow doesn't have quite the same impact as on FTR. I've only tried playing a couple of songs from C&S on piano, and none from HoSL, so I don't know how tricky they are. Thinking about it, apart from Boho Dance, what other acoustic piao tracks are there on Hissing? There is electric piano on the title track, though not played by joni, and there is the swirly organ thing on Shadows and Light. Am I forgetting another piano track? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:31:21 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Crickets (NJC) In a message dated 3/1/99 10:56:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << Terry- Just got in from outside collecting a slew of crickets for you, which I will post tomorrow along with an apology for stepping on the NRH cricket. >> Better yet, could you make a loop of cricket chirps for me? That's the one track missing from my version of NRH on the Tribute Tape. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 08:45:55 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: the chieftans (sjc?) KerriLynn@aol.com wrote: > hey fellow listers!! > was just wondering if anyone has heard the recent album from "the chieftans" > which features tons of different artists (ie. joni, sarah et al) > it seems to be there is a cover of 'magdalene laundries' (my spelling sucks) > on it and was hoping the listers would have some input.... > thanx... > a favorite lurker.. It is superb. The Joni version is great. Didn't think I could ever like another like Long Black Veil, but this cd is a real treat. Jerry np: Phoebe Snow - I Can't Complain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 08:51:02 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Roses michael paz wrote: > Paul T. wrote: > " What do other people think about FTR?" > Paul- I am with Kakki on this one. For the roses is my #1 Joni record. I > love all the songs on this record (as I do Hejira). I go back and forth > between Hejira and For the Roses as my faves. Though Hejira is a more mature work, For the Roses has always been my favorite Joni album. Though Hejira is more focused, FTR contains a wider range of emotion and music, IMHO. Jerry np: Richie Havens - Mixed Bag ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:48:00 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Living Dictionary (NJC) From: "Tube" Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 02:11:05 +0100 <> Tube, as far as I know, to give someone the bums' rush is to forcibly eject them from somewhere...I think it has to do with throwing someone out of a hotel, bar, etc. when they can't pay the tab (hence the "bum" part). The cliche is always shown as a hapless body being tossed out the front door and tumbling. Not sure why Ron applies the term to Jagger, surely he can ante up at the bar... Bob NP: Al Stewart, "Year of the Cat" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 08:54:15 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Video Release Delayed Phyliss Ward wrote: > We are sorry to report that the offical release date for the new > edition of the DVD "Mitchell: Painting with Words and Music" has been > pushed back to March 30th of 1999. My, my. It's TTT all over again! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 09:03:21 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem Ginamu@aol.com wrote: I still maintain that to say she is as great a poet as Yeats is > somewhat like saying she is as great a painter as Van Gogh because she painted > the spoof on the self-portrait for the cover of Turbulent Indigo. Apples and oranges in my book. Joni is a much greater poet than painter, IMHO. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 07:00:58 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: slouching towards bethleham killer, and, damn, they actually got into it! It really helped out! >Sigh... if only someone would put out a rap maxi-single for "The Love >Song of J. Alfred Prufrock", I wouldn't have to do any planning this >week... > This cracked me up! You'd have to tweak a couple of the lines though, something to the effect of: Do I part my hair behind-ah? Do I dare to eat a bee-yatch! Don Rowe ;-) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 07:10:05 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem Interesting discussion on Joni adapting Yeats -- and the general merits of such an endeavour. What I think has been missed so far, is that Yeats borrowed directly and extensively from the Book of Revelations in writing "The Second Coming" ... so do we not have something of a goose/gander issue here? Just a thought ... Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:15:37 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem I asked: >>But, I'm wondering where you read that the song's title is based on >> the Didion collection's title? Deb Messling pointed out: >She said it in the New York Times in 1991: "The most farsighted >number is her reworking of William Butler Yeats's "Second Coming," >which she has retitled "Slouching Toward Bethlehem," in >acknowledgment, she says, of the Joan Didion essay." Thanks, Deb. I am more curious than ever now about Joni's thought processes in writing this particular song. I wish the Times article had more information about it. Did she read the Didion essay first or the poem? How does calling the song "Slouching Towards Bethlehem" constitute an "acknowledgement" of Joan Didion's essay, since Didion's name is never mentioned in the NRH liner notes or in the lyrics book, although Yeats's name is? What exactly about the essay is being acknowledged? To what extent is her reworking of the poem for the song colored by her impressions of the Didion piece, as opposed to the Yeats poem itself? These are questions I'll ponder as I go back and re-read Joan Didion's essay with Joni's song in mind. Life is for learning... - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 10:25:57 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: [Fwd: Thanks] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------E5CC191EB361EDB03DD28D4D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, folks. I hit the jackpot. Thanks, Wally, for putting the contest on the website. Jerry - --------------E5CC191EB361EDB03DD28D4D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: wallyb@mail.well.com Received: from smtp.well.com (smtp.well.com [206.80.6.147]) by bayflash.stpt.usf.edu (8.8.7/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA26286 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:34:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.169.228.101] (haiti-101.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.101]) by smtp.well.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with SMTP id GAA09748 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 06:27:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903021427.GAA09748@smtp.well.com> Subject: Thanks Date: Tue, 2 Mar 99 06:32:26 -0700 x-sender: wallyb@mail.well.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Wally Breese To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Hello, Congratulations! You're a winner in a JM.COM contest. You've won a VHS copy of "Joni Mitchell: Painting With Words And Music," courtesy of Image Entertainment. Please send me your mailing address ASAP because the distributing company has told me that your free copy may be mailed to you a week before the official March 16th release date. Please understand that the DVD and LD copies may arrive from a week to a few weeks later than the VHS copy. Thanks for playing and for visiting JM.COM! Later, Wally Breese The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com - --------------E5CC191EB361EDB03DD28D4D-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 15:33:43 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Joni's Most Danceable Song did someone already say BYT???? pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 15:41:47 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: JC-ish: Tattoos are like tattoos Lori wrote: >thinking the front cover of C & S would probably be less painful ...> hey lor, if you want less painful, I would definately go with LOTC... *G* pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 13:16:25 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: burundi philipf@tinet.ie writes: > > Not sure what you mean by bucks here, but I assume since they > are credited on the record that the Burundis get paid their due > share of every copy sold. I highly doubt it. She was sampling a field recording, not a recording of an "established" group such as somebody posted about seeing in concert recently. "The warrior drums of Burundi," as I believe the "credit" on Jungle Line reads, is *not* the name of the ensemble on the recording; it's not really a credit at all. I don't think the HOSL sleeve even gives the source (album title, label, etc.) for the field recording. It happens to be _Burundi: Musiques Traditionnelles_ on the French label Ocora (which releases lots of great field recordings). If Joni pays royalties to anybody, I would think it would be Ocora. For logistical reasons if nothing else, I doubt that royalties are paid to people who appear in field recordings. I don't think that makes field recordings common property, though. I agree with Tom Ross's original post. Take care, - --David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 10:30:01 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: royalties David Wright wrote: > If Joni pays royalties to anybody, I would think it would be > Ocora. For logistical reasons if nothing else, I doubt that royalties are > paid to people who appear in field recordings. > Royalties are generally only paid to the person (or group) who's name appears on the cover, the songwriter(s)*, and sometimes the producer. Even heavies like Larry Carlton, etc, are no doubt hired guns. In the case of sampling, the samplee (or record co. thereof) decides the cash amount they will charge to allow for use of their material, typically 10K-100K. Early sample users (i.e. early days of rap) just used what they wanted. Eventually lawsuits ensued, now it's considered pretty foolish to do so. I think alot of 'field recordings' of ethnic music have been made with no compensation whatsoever to the artist, which sounds harsh, but it's doubtful the release makes any money anyway. If it does, I think they should be paid whatever is fair. RR *and the publisher ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:41:53 EST From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Questions to ask Joni Mary Pitassi wrote: "Hey, Joni, on "Beat of Black Wings," are you singing "Johnny Angel," "Charlie Angel," or "Paul is dead?" ;-) this may be a "me too" post--and if so sorry for it, jmdl po-lice--but mary p. good question! as silly as it may sound i have always wondered too because my brother, named charlie, was killed in vietnam. (i know too, "charlie" is what the "boys" called the vietnamese--right?). So maybe she says both--johnny and charlie (or deliberately blurs the pronunciation) meaning both sets of "boys" were innocents, put to work in their patriarch's wars...i don't know--let's ask joni! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:01:16 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: royalties Randy Remote wrote: <<>> Samplees can also negotiate for a songwriting credit on top of a cash payment in return for use of their sample, which results in songwriting royalties for them. My guess is that George Clinton and James Brown both count sampling as the lion's share of their income these days. Joni herself received a songwriting credit for her sample in Janet's "Got 'Til It's Gone" and is likely receiving royalties from airplay and sales of albums and singles as a result. - --Michael NP: Martha Wash, _Martha Wash_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:03:23 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Questions to ask Joni Hi Ray -- >(i know too, "charlie" is what the "boys" called the >vietnamese--right?). Yes, and my recollection is that Med-Evac helicopters were, in fact, referred to by the troops as "Charlie Angel" -- since, if/when you were wounded in battle, they were the quickest way out of the jungle front-lines. In the Viet Nam conflict, getting wounded was also your ticket back home ... Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:15:01 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: the chieftans (sjc?) I listened to the new "Magdalene Laundries" on a listening station last night and was *very* disappointed. Joni's vocal was excellent, of course, and the VG-8 isn't bad, but the Chieftains' backup is horrible in my opinion. I've liked some of their stuff before, but this particular composition sounds cloying and Enya-esque to my ear. I do like the idea of the Screaming Orphans--they really remind me of the Roches-- but their additions don't seem to gel in this track. I do like their sound enough that I may check out one of their own albums. I'm glad I got to hear it, but I don't think I'll be buying it. - --Michael, perennial spreader of doom and gloom :-) NP: Herbie Hancock, _Headhunters_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:42:52 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: (NJC) cassandra wilson, miles davis, etc There is a pretty exhaustive preview of Cassandra's new album at http://www.billboard.com/feature/cassandra.html Names that come up include Angelique Kidjo, Pat Metheny, Cyndi Lauper, and Wayne Shorter. I know they all have fans around here, so check it out. - --Michael NP: Miles Davis, _Porgy and Bess_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:42:58 -0600 From: Mary Pitassi Subject: RE: re: Questions to ask Joni Gellerray (Ray Geller?) wrote: "as silly as it may sound i have always wondered too because my brother, named charlie, was killed in vietnam. (i know too, "charlie" is what the "boys" called the vietnamese--right?). So maybe she says both--johnny and charlie (or deliberately blurs the pronunciation) meaning both sets of "boys" were innocents, put to work in their patriarch's wars...i don't know--let's ask joni!" Me now: I'm so sorry about your brother's death. I don't know that the pain of such a loss ever goes away, but maybe its everyday intensity does subside over the years, while allowing for many happy memories of the one who died so long before the time expected. I hope that that is the case with you. About the "Johnny angel/Charlie angel" question: this was a not-so-subtle reference to one of the earliest sustained lyric-related threads the JMDL ever had--and one that was revisited, I think, several times, without ever being definitively resolved! Mainly, we had a lot of fun with it. I must say, though, that I like your interpretation the best of any that was offered. How provocative. That's how I'll think of this vocal from now on. Take care, Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:41:15 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Roses Heather wrote: >I'll be there! FTR was my first introduction to Joni's music. It's still >the only one I can sing to from beginning to end and not look at the lyrics. >I could use a trip to the west coast :-) Come see us anytime! Yes, I am one of those who thinks FTR is her masterpiece! I can remember every little detail surrounding the first time I listened to it. I have never been so blown away by any album, I think it is in another realm altogether. >hey - has anyone heard from ric? or is he trapped on the island of lost >luggage...) uh, oh! I hope he has not been unexpectantly, uh, "detained"..... Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:39:13 +0100 From: Marian Russell Subject: Re: Beatles and Jane Siberry (NJC) Many thanks to all of the kind people who replied to my questions about which Beatles albums to buy and confirmed that it's Jane (not Jean) Siberry and that she's wonderful. Hopefully next month I'll be able to afford to take some action! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 15:36:58 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: TTT reviewed in Feb. Satellite Times Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:36:42 +0100 From: Marian Russell We su.bscribe to Satellite Times, a UK publication which has a schedule of all of the European satellite TV programs. It also has movie reviews and highlights of special programs on various channels and I just discovered that it also has album reviews. In the section called 'Moore On Music' by Nik Moore, he writes: + + + + Taming The Tiger - Joni Mitchell (Reprise) **** [four stars! - his highest rating] Hurrah! Joni's back! Every couple of years, this wonderful Canadian singer-songwriter releases an album, and every album is as special as the last. Her experiments with jazz in the 80s mean that she's forever left the forlorn soundscapes of Blue behind her, but her songs are still graced with arrangements that accentuate her laconic vocals, sometimes soaring high, yet as often as smoky as a grizzled bluesman. Blimmin' gorgeous. + + + + Nice review, huh? Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 18:02:51 -0500 From: The Humphreys Subject: Re: royalties Randy Remote wrote: > > David Wright wrote: > > > If Joni pays royalties to anybody, I would think it would be > > Ocora. For logistical reasons if nothing else, I doubt that royalties are > > paid to people who appear in field recordings. > > > > I think alot of 'field recordings' of ethnic music have been made with > no compensation whatsoever to the artist, which sounds harsh, but it's > doubtful the release makes any money anyway. If it does, I think they > should be paid whatever is fair. > RR > *and the publisher To begin, I wholeheartedly agree that persons rendering their art in whatever forum should be compensated for their work, generosity, etc. However, where would we be in our musicology if we were so restricted i.e. using nothing that didn't have a recorded history and personality to pay? Would we not have the opportunities to "sample" many types and tastes of world musics if there were no "field" recordings? I could see the amount and variety drastically dwindling if these records were treated in a Nashvillian, company store manner. Again, I do favor compensation, but am testing the flipside of this topic. This past weekend, I was visiting a friend who was talking of a conversation he had with another of our friends, Sam Bush (a phenomenal mandolin player for those non-new grass souls out there). My friend Ed said a phrase that stuck with Sam for awhile that Sam later said he wanted to use as his new CD title, but would not as it was not "his". Copyright laws are in place to protect, however, do they not censor a bit too much at times? I'm not a musician, so do not have my life's work to protect in that sense, so please don't get offended by my comments, I see both sides. I'm a fan of "The Jungle Line" and would have never known of these drummers had it not been for this song. I've since, looked up more info, and have enriched my knowledge banks...JMO. Suzanne NP: HOSL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:45:02 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Jazz Fest Info (njc but interesting) Hello all- Here are some of the acts that have been announced for this years Jazz Fest: Fats Domino, Ray Charles, Branford Marsalis, The Isley Bros, Widespread Panic, Dave Brubeck, Kirk Franklin, Hootie and the Blowfish, Dave Sanborn, Los Lobos, Little Feat, Third World, Bobby Blue Bland, Cassandra Wilson, Rita Coolidge, Santana, Cubanisimo, and many more. I did not list the traditional list of Louisiana artists that will be on hand like the Bros, meters, rads, etc. but they are all there and they all axed for you Love Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:09:15 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: burundi I wrote >> but I assume since they >> are credited on the record that the Burundis get paid their due >> share of every copy sold. Then David Wright wrote : > I highly doubt it. She was sampling a field recording, not a >recording of an "established" group such as somebody posted about seeing >in concert recently. me again - cue big beats : I would find it hilarious if Warner, who are world champions at policing the sampling activities of others, broke the rules themselves. Copyright is basically the right to make copies. It covers all types of recordings as well as live performances. So regardless of whether the recording was made in the field or not, someone owns the copyright to it and Warner needs that person's permission to make copies. My bet is that they have permission. Philip NP My Secret Place ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 19:26:27 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem > What I think has been missed so far, > is that Yeats borrowed directly and extensively from the Book of > Revelations in writing "The Second Coming" The difference is that God doesn't go around suing for copyright infringement. He has crappy lawyers. My 2 cents on the substance of this thread: I prefer the original, maybe only because I knew it first. Emily Dickinson said (quoting from memory) "if I feel, physically, like the top of my head has been cut off, I know *that* is poetry." And that's how I felt the first time I read The Second Coming. Whatever the -ology of the piece, it's just so spooky you can't help but be moved, physically. When I heard Joni's song, my immediate reaction was intellectual: a comparision to the Yeats poem, instead of a direct experience of Joni's. Perhaps those who encountered the song before the poem feel the same power from Joni. (If there's anyone who is unafraid to admit they had not read Yeats). Deb Messling ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:25:18 -0800 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: Charlie Angel Speaking as a former grunt, I never heard Med Evacs referred to as Charlie Angels, but I do recall hearing a song called "Johnny Angel" played on the radio. Also, getting wounded didn't necessarily guaranteed a way back home. It depended on the severity of the wound. Of course, I was there in 67-68 so things could have changed. Strange place, strange time, stranger that I should remember. Later Gene - -----Original Message----- From: Don Rowe To: Gellerray@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 11:05 AM Subject: Re: Questions to ask Joni >Hi Ray -- > >>(i know too, "charlie" is what the "boys" called the >>vietnamese--right?). > >Yes, and my recollection is that Med-Evac helicopters were, in fact, >referred to by the troops as "Charlie Angel" -- since, if/when you were >wounded in battle, they were the quickest way out of the jungle >front-lines. In the Viet Nam conflict, getting wounded was also your >ticket back home ... > >Don Rowe > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:32:21 -0800 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: Re: the chieftans (sjc?) - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Yarbrough To: 'joni@smoe.org' Date: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 11:15 AM Subject: RE: the chieftans (sjc?) > >I listened to the new "Magdalene Laundries" on a listening station last >night and was *very* disappointed. Joni's vocal was excellent, of >course, and the VG-8 isn't bad, but the Chieftains' backup is horrible >in my opinion. I've liked some of their stuff before, but this particular >composition sounds cloying and Enya-esque to my ear. I do like the >idea of the Screaming Orphans--they really remind me of the Roches-- >but their additions don't seem to gel in this track. I do like their >sound enough that I may check out one of their own albums. > >I'm glad I got to hear it, but I don't think I'll be buying it. > >--Michael, perennial spreader of doom and gloom :-) > >NP: Herbie Hancock, _Headhunters_ >Michael: I disagree, I thought JM's version on "Tears" was much more intense and compelling. Her phrasing (?) of certain words emphasize the disdain she had for the church. The Orphans sounded great, reminding me of an earlier album of JM that had similar sounding backup. Both "thumbs up" for Tears of Stone, good CD. I'll play it often. However, I thought Natalie Merchant had the best performance. Take Care Gene ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 17:16:45 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: burundi philipf@tinet.ie wrote: > > I would find it hilarious if Warner, who are world champions at > policing the sampling activities of others, broke the rules themselves. > Copyright is basically the right to make copies. It covers all types > of recordings as well as live performances. So regardless of whether > the recording was made in the field or not, someone owns the > copyright to it and Warner needs that person's permission to > make copies. My bet is that they have permission. > > Philip > NP My Secret Place Right! It could have turned out that the record label that recorded the Burundis got paid for Joni's use, but the drummer(s) themselves did not. RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 17:18:59 PST From: "Master Man" Subject: re: Pretenders (NJC) Apologies for this semi solicitation. Leave to Chrissie Hynde to encourage me to de-lurk for the second time this week.... Apparently Warner is delaying release of the new Pretenders album-completed some time ago now. This is a form email that a fan site has drafted. If there are any Pretenders fans out there (I know there are) please email warner at wbrepinc@wbr.com the following: Dear Warner, The Pretenders have been a classic act from the start. Chrissie Hynde's talent is of legendary status and will remain so long after we are all gone. Three musically desolate years have now passed without the release of a new album in spite of the fact that they have finished recording one that they believe in. We don't want record company influenced music; there's already enough music out there that's ugly enough to clog a drain. We want the Pretenders. Our Pretenders. Please show the respect the band deserves by releasing the album as they have recorded it and backing them in any way necessary. The band has my support... won't you give them yours? Sincerley, ((((Your Name))) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:16:25 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem David Marine wrote: <> Slouching Towards Bethlehem is one of the most amazing songs Joni has ever recorded. It's another one of those rare tunes that brings tears to my eyes. I was so disappointed that it wasn't included on her latest video! I'll never forget playing Night Ride Home for my mom while driving across the country a few years ago. When Slouching Towards Bethlehem ended she asked if I would play it again louder. It provoked a great debate that lasted from the Rockies to the Four Corners. How can I get tape tree #7?! E.T. (recovering from a computer virus) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 17:20:55 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Roses Kakki wrote: > > Yes, I am one of those who thinks FTR is her masterpiece! Me, too, Kakki! (One of them at least, it's hard to rate them when they're so high in the stratosphere). As wonderful as Blue is, FTR was a quantum leap. Also her last record without drums and a band backing. (& don't bust me on 'Blonde in the Bleachers' you guys!) RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 17:23:10 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: FTR, Joni's piano playing ... Howard Wright wrote: > Thinking about it, apart from Boho Dance, what other acoustic piao > tracks are there on Hissing? There is electric piano on the title track, > though not played by joni, and there is the swirly organ thing on Shadows > and Light. Am I forgetting another piano track? > "Shades of Scarlett Conquering" easy to miss, it's so orchestrated and arranged. RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 17:56:09 PST From: "Master Man" Subject: re: Stormy Weather (old JC) There is a promo CD of the Stormy Weather Benefit out. It was sent to people in mail regarding AT&T's Personal Network or something. Here is the track listing: Almost Blue ~ Gwen Stefani You've Change ~ Paula Cole But Beautiful ~ Shawn Colvin Good Guy ~ Trisha Yearwood Is That All There Is? ~ Sandra Bernhard Good Morning Heartache ~ Sheryl Crow They Can't Take That Away From Me ~ Natalie Cole At Last ~ Stevie Nicks Gloomy Sunday ~ Bjork **Stormy Weather ~ Joni Mitchell** Produced by: Don Henley for the Walden Woods Project Recorded live at the Wiltern Theatre in Los Angeles This was found at THE Stevie Nicks website: http://www.nicksfix.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:17:27 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Jazz Fest Info (njc but interesting) In a message dated 3/2/99 5:21:15 PM Central Standard Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << Fats Domino, Ray Charles, Branford Marsalis, The Isley Bros, Widespread Panic, Dave Brubeck, Kirk Franklin, Hootie and the Blowfish, Dave Sanborn, Los Lobos, Little Feat, Third World, Bobby Blue Bland, Cassandra Wilson, Rita Coolidge, Santana, Cubanisimo, and many more. >> Wow - what a lineup! Maybe we should change the date and place for Jonifest '99...Glad to see SC represented with Hootie & Co. Bob NP: Pete Townshend/Ronnie Lane "Til the rivers all run dry" (re-discovered thanx to the list) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:30:04 +1100 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: "Bumrush"... a name, a feeling, a kinky game! (NJC) Mmmm... 'bumrush' sounds like something painful that decrepit old timer's subject their friends too!! Perhaps in regards to Ron's calling of his band mate 'bumrush' is an affectionate British term meaning: "That you make me feel as comfortable as doing a much needed "number 2's". So, a 'bumrush' is that relieved and contented felling one associates with bowel movements... so therefore anyone who is referred to as a 'bumrush' is a constant source of contentment." So, it's cool rock n' roll term for enema! I shall consult my dictionary and give you a more thorough explanation. Vanessa... who wonders if one can be a buff bumrush?! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:37:57 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem Deb wrote: > What I think has been missed so far, > is that Yeats borrowed directly and extensively from the Book of > Revelations in writing "The Second Coming" >>The difference is that God doesn't go around suing for copyright >>infringement. He has crappy lawyers. Ha! I don't think he needs them. He has his ways ;-) >>Perhaps those who encountered the song before the poem feel the same >>power from Joni. (If there's anyone who is unafraid to admit they had >>not read Yeats). I am unafraid ;-) I read it previously only from the Book of Revelation but that passage has always struck me with an immense power. (I know, I know, how can I be an Irish person in good standing having not read the Yeats). I agree to the nth degree with others on the list who have raved about Joni's live performances of this song in concert last year. The song never affected me as much as when I heard it live that first night at Pauley. I was transfixed by it. It's really unfortunate that it was not included in the final cut of the video from the Warner Bros. taping. With regard for Julius' post comparing some of the lyrics to Joan Didion's writing about the Las Vegas wedding - it does seem to relate to "things fall apart - the center cannot hold - innocence is drowned in anarchy." Speaking of La$ Vega$, I have packed my polyester suit and am dreaming on my dimes hoping to be jingling in the lucky jackpots around this time tomorrow night. Please wish me luck raking off the tables ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 22:46:46 PST From: "Angela Takats" Subject: re:FTR and a question I, like many listers, totally agree about how wonderful this album is. I must say it shocked me after listening to Ladies of the Canyon and Clouds, which are very "guitarish"...and then hearing so much piano on FTR, but it blew me away. How can this woman be a master of two such gorgeous instruments? The whole album is so intence and keeps you engaged throughout each track. And as for favourite FTR songs as I have said to listers before, there's something indescribable about "electricity", I just love it SOOOO much, and I don't even really know why. I don't know anything about the "deeper" meaning of it, or even if there's a deeper meaning (love your thoughts poeple) I must say i'm not a You turn me on I'm a Radio fan, have to skip it each time, but a part from that song - I love the album to bits. Hey and a quick and easy question for those much more knowledgable than myself - what album is "urge for going" on? I wish you "colorados" all the "joni" best for your joni fest (I know that was very lame,,,sorry) As usual, I am green with envy...do tell us all about it. Thoughts from Ange ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #104 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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