From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #102 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, March 1 1999 Volume 04 : Number 102 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: I Love To Dance - woops ["Kakki" ] Jane or Jean Siberry? (NJC) [M.Russell@iaea.org] Beatles (NJC) [M.Russell@iaea.org] Ministry (njc) [evian ] Slouching Towards Bethlehem [davidmarine@webtv.net (David Marine)] Re: Beatles (NJC) [davidmarine@webtv.net (David Marine)] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem ["Winfried Hühn" ] NJC: CD writers [Howard Wright ] RDC and other Joni time signature [Howard Wright ] Re: burundi (JC!) [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: I Love To Dance [KCooper984@aol.com] Re[2]: I Love To Dance - woops [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem [Jerry Notaro ] Re: joni wedding song [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: (NJC) Loudest concerts [catman ] Re: JC-ish: Tattoos are like tattoos [Ashara@aol.com] RE: (NJC) Country brains [Michael Yarbrough ] FW: CDnow Update - Michael Yarbrough's Edition (SJC) [Michael Yarbrough <] RE: Joni's Most Danceable Song [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Beatles (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: Most Danceable Joni tune [Randy Remote ] Re: NJC: CD writers [Randy Remote ] Re: joni wedding song [catman ] Re: (NJC) Country brains [catman ] Re: Most Danceable Joni tune ["Don Rowe" ] NJC Brian Wilson [Bounced Message ] NJC Loudest concert [Bounced Message ] Re: NJC Loudest concert [Jerry Notaro ] UNSURPASSED? ["paul tyrer" ] time sigs ["paul tyrer" ] Re: UNSURPASSED? ["Kakki" ] RE: JMDL Digest V4 #100 [Louis Lynch ] Re: night ride home! (jc) ["Kakki" ] the chieftans (sjc?) [KerriLynn@aol.com] Joni's quotes [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Roses [michael paz ] Re: UNSURPASSED? ["paul tyrer" ] Re: JMDL Digest V4 #100 [catman ] Chicken question [Bounced Message ] Re: Chicken question [John.Mitchell@ascend.com] Re: Chicken question [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Roses [luvart@snet.net] Questions to ask Joni [Mary Pitassi ] In a "state of divorce" [Mary Pitassi ] I Love To Dance [Leslie Mixon ] Video Release Delayed [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem [Ginamu@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:54:52 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: I Love To Dance - woops I wrote: >And cheating a little, but one I always dance to is "Why Do Fools Fall In >Love" recorded by Joni and The Crusaders. And I will now correct myself - IT'S THE PERSUASIONS (Where did I come up with the Crusaders??) Kakki NP: In the plan, the cockeyed plan, God Must Be A Boogie Man ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:00:02 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Jane or Jean Siberry? (NJC) Could someone please tell me if Jean Siberry (who has been talking about a lot on the list in recent months) is really Jane Siberry? I was looking in Amazon.com the other day for recordings by Jean Siberry, but all I could find listed was Jane Siberry. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:04:14 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Beatles (NJC) I want to replace my vinyl Beatles collection with CDs and I noticed that there are several collections and anthologies of the Beatles music on the market. I'm wondering if I should go for the original albums, or if either the anthologies or collections would be a better choice. I was looking through one of the anthologies (I think it was the third one) with songs from the White Album and I noticed that not all of the songs from the WA were included. But I also noticed that on the first anthology it seemed like there were a lot of song titles included that I've never heard before. I hope some kind person can help me out here! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 02:19:08 -0600 From: evian Subject: Ministry (njc) > Loudest Concert: Ministry. They made me ears ring for three days > afterwards. I'm positive I've damaged my hearing! They were just a > wall of distortion and I couldn't appreciate any of their songs as my > ears hurt too much. > I can imagine! However, I am wondering if anyone here would have seen Ministry before they became so... what's the word I am looking for.... speed-metal-ish? I LOVE the album TWITCH, and am really curious if anyone had been to a Ministry show before the album THE MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO TASTE came out? Also, since Ministry was brought up, any other industrial fans on the list? Evian np: "Dreamland", a VERY danceable? dancable? dance-able? song, as well as a place I hope to be ASAP! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:45:05 -0800 (PST) From: davidmarine@webtv.net (David Marine) Subject: Slouching Towards Bethlehem Hi Gina -- I can undertand why you and others are reluctant to embrace Joni's reworking of "The Second Coming." Clearly the poem is a powerful statement by a great writer and has come to be viewed (and rightly so, of course) as a seminal work of modern poetry; mainly, I believe, for its subject matter. Perhaps it is generally a good idea to leave such things alone. Phillip objected to Joni's song because he did not feel that the music reflected the imagery of things falling apart. Fair enough, I suppose, except that the structure of the Yeats poem is not especially reflective of this image of entropy either, except perhaps in the liberal use of commas and semicolons in the first stanza. And in fact Joni's unfolding repetition of opening lines (i.e. Turning and turning/ Hoping and hoping/ Raging and raging) does reinforce the image the "widening gyre." Further, the dark and menacing drums clearly evoke the image of the lumbering sphinx. Again, I wish everyone could hear the way this song was performed live during the spring tour, which I believe is available on tape tree #7. The reason that I feel Joni's lyrics are just as strong as "The Second Coming" is because she has successfully, IMO, retained the dark power of Yeats's images while reworking them from her own emotional/spiritual perspective. This to me results in an equally eloquent poem/lyric and a more direct emotional connection to the ideas. I also appreciate that the song's title is taken from Joan Didion's classic essays about (among other things) the 60s counterculture. To my mind this makes a bridge between Yeats's prescient (even as it was reflective of post-war Europe) poem and Joni's contemporary song. As far as Joni and Yeats not being in the same "league," Gina, I'm not really sure that I understand what you're suggesting. Are you making a distinction between poetry and lyrics? Between academic/literary works and Joni's more individualistic approach? Between established works and contemporary works? Please clarify. Thanks for making me think a little more about all this. David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 01:05:25 -0800 (PST) From: davidmarine@webtv.net (David Marine) Subject: Re: Beatles (NJC) Marian -- I would suggest replacing the complete albums because I believe that they warrant it. Also, if you are like me, you hold a special place in your heart for some of the lesser known songs. If, however, you decide to purchase a C.D. collection, you do not want the anthologies. They are mostly demos, out-takes, and early studio versions. I will say that Anthology #2 is especially impressive and it's fascinating to hear the early takes of some of the classics. Anyway, if you decide on a collection I would go with the good old red and blue albums, which have been around for decades and are available on C.D. They comprise most of the hits. David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 10:28:59 +0100 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem David Marine wrote: > I can undertand why you and others are reluctant to embrace Joni's > reworking of "The Second Coming." Clearly the poem is a powerful > statement by a great writer and has come to be viewed (and rightly so, > of course) as a seminal work of modern poetry; mainly, I believe, for > its subject matter. Perhaps it is generally a good idea to leave such > things alone. Phillip objected to Joni's song because he did not feel > that the music reflected the imagery of things falling apart. Fair > enough, I suppose, except that the structure of the Yeats poem is not > especially reflective of this image of entropy either, except perhaps in > the liberal use of commas and semicolons in the first stanza. I can't remember the exact wording of Yeats' poem, but there was one line which I thought was rather "odd": some phrase containing the words "spiritus mundi". I remember trying to read the line over and over again but failing to put a rhythmic structure into it so that it sounded good. That was also one of the lines Joni left out. Personally, I don't see what's wrong with using someone's poem. In all areas of art, copying and citing is completely commonplace. Joni had permission to do it, and she clearly stated the origin of her lyrics. As for the "doomsday situation" described in the poem, I think this is quite nicely reflected on Slouching Towards Bethlehem. Listen, for example, to those dark, echoing drums. The music to me conveys determination, the inescapability of the end. And that's much more horrifying than a mere chaos. A great song. Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:59:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: Most Danceable Joni tune JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > > ...I say it's "Coyote," by a nose. Then "In France They Kiss On Main > Street." Anyone differ? How 'bout The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines? The Tenth World also has a not-so-subliminal message written in to it: "You MUST dance to this !!!" Howard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:03:29 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: NJC: CD writers From: "Gene Mock" >Can anyone out there answer if the current generation of CDRom >rewriters(?) are capable of copying the CD's with music? Is there a >substantial difference in sound quality like is apparent when copying >videos? Thanks >You Gene Yes, CD writers can be used to copy music CDs. There is NO loss of quality in the copy - this is the main advantage of digital music. You can copy it any number of times, and you still end up with exact replicas of the original. With analogue signals (vidoes, music cassettes) you add noise at every copying stage, so after a couple of copying stages it starts to sound pretty bad. With digital, if you set it up right, you can go on copying as long as you like with no added noise and no loss of quality. Howard ******************************************************* Howard.Wright@ed.ac.uk The way I perceived the dissonance was : These chords are really mean I like these chords ! Frank Zappa ******************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:18:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: RDC and other Joni time signature From: michaelb@coolgold.com.au (Michael) Subject: RDC time sig >I had a quick listen and I would say it is in 6/8 4/4... Most of the >song sits on 6/8 but she throws in a bar of 4/4 in places.Just before >the verse and just before the chorus too I think. I must have missed the original post ... Is RDC Ray's Dad's Cadillac? I think the song is in 6/8 throughout - from memory, I can't remember any shifts to other times ... Joni does mix and match times in other songs though, throwing in the odd bar of 2/4 or 3/4 (Banquet, All I Want). I love this kind of thing - Lennon did it a lot too. Usually it's done just to make the flow of lyrics work more smoothly - a step outside of the conventional 4/4 can really help in these cases. >For something more offbeat have a listen to Mother on "Syncronicity" >by the Police,it is in 7/8 ....weird ... written by the drummer >Stewart Copeland I think this was written (and sung) by the Police guitarist Andy Summers. And, hey! - don't knock 7/8 time, it's one of my favourites! It's the ultimate groove! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:19:33 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: burundi (JC!) - -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Ross >tell me how it's not cultural imperialism. I say give back to the cultures >you take from, with honor, study, and bucks. > Not sure what you mean by bucks here, but I assume since they are credited on the record that the Burundis get paid their due share of every copy sold. I think Jungleline was one of her bravest moves. She got there years ahead of the Gabriel/ Womad posse. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:36:46 EST From: KCooper984@aol.com Subject: Re: I Love To Dance My 10 year old LOVES to dance to Dancin' Clown!!!!!!!!! Sue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:07:58 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: I Love To Dance - woops Kakki korrekted: <> Maybe cuz Joe Sample played on Court & Spark? (Joni, always the pioneer, using "samples" before the rap records of the 80's...) ;~D Bob NP: The O'Jay's :"People keep tellin' me" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 08:39:35 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem "Winfried Hühn" wrote: > A great song. Without a doubt, one of her masterworks. It could have gone much differently. And one of her best live performances. And she is every bit the "poet" that Yeats was. Jerry np: Joni & the Chieftans ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:08:58 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Jane or Jean Siberry? (NJC) In a message dated 01/03/99 08:08:03, M.Russell@iaea.org writes: << Could someone please tell me if Jean Siberry (who has been talking about a lot on the list in recent months) is really Jane Siberry? I was looking in Amazon.com the other day for recordings by Jean Siberry, but all I could find listed was Jane Siberry. >> Marian, there is only one Sib! It's Jane Siberry - I imagine you might have been getting crossed wires with Jean Seberg, ill-fated start of "A Bout de Souffle". Anyway, as regulars will know, I am a HUGE Sib fan, and consider her to be a bona fide genius, a unique talent, a one-off. If you're looking for an intro, I would suggest "Summer in the Yukon", a compilation of her first four or five albums, or "When I was a Boy", which was the next studio album and contains moments of heart-stopping beauty. The best place to find out more about her back catalogue is her website, which is www.sheeba.ca - if you get on the mailing list, you will also have the pleasure of receiving her delightfully idiosyncratic newsletters. Let me know if you want to know more (that goes for any other listers too). You're in for a treat! Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:09:18 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Loudest concerts In a message dated 28/02/99 23:05:11, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << Nanci Griffith, a country singer? Wash your mouth out! She has brains! She is folk! >> That's kind of my point about Lucinda! Although having said that, I imagine that, unlike me, you use "country" as a pejorative term, and people who are vaguely related to the idiom whom you happen to like get put in another category. I hasten to add that I'm not knocking that at all, indeed it's exactly what I do with the term "heavy metal" - I generally hate it, and any I like I just don't consider to be heavy metal! Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:29:58 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: Re: night ride home! (jc) Kakki wrote: >Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:15:20 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: night ride home! (jc) >Patrick wrote: >>kakki thought the album had been made during break-up but i've >always thought night ride home was partially a snapshot of the >best times in their marriage. the title song is such a simple >record of a wonderful night for two people very much in love. >the photo shoot that created the artwork for the album was a >collaboration on what sounded like a joyous road trip to >saskatoon. just in general, there's an awful lot of joy there, >even with its darknesses. and in its production, it feels like >the highest achievement of the klein/mitchell collaboration. >and besides, joni said at the grammies that turbulent indigo >was made 'in a state of divorce'. i hope they weren't in that >state for six years! >I feel the need to clarify my prior statement lest the "Inaccuracy" Police come chasing after me ;-) The song "Night Ride Home" was written in around 1988 (cite to my NRH songbook's 1988 copyright date for the song) and initially had the working title of "Fourth of July". I also had thought that they broke up in 1994 based on her comment at the Grammies, but she mentioned something in her KCRW interview last March about their divorce finally becoming final after several years and this led me to believe that the initial breaking up process started well before '94. I should go back and listen to it again. Also, in at least one article on the JMDL site (and in the KCRW interview) she indicated that her relationship with Donald Freed started in 1994, so she and Larry must have grown apart before that time. Another song from NRH which made me wonder about their relationship is "Nothing Can Be Done" (although it may have nothing to do with Klein), especially the lyrics "Must I forgive you each time and say you don't know what you're doing there are no victimless crimes I know of out here in these grafitti ruins"; "I heard you leaving late last night I heard you screaming down the mountain like you were running red lights, red lights you had some trash can rock band pounding"; and "Don't start, my heart is a smoking gun, oh, and nothing can be done". >I did not mean to imply that the songs themselves on NRH reflected their breaking up - I do think they convey a great love between them (which I think is still there). It's just that I felt she'd returned to her own essence in that album, and that it may have coincided with her beginning to separate on some level from Klein. >Kakki, in female intuition mode ;-) The following snippet is from an interview with Joni in the UK Sunday Telegraph Magazine, February 23rd, 1991. (One week before the release of NRH in the UK). "I know myself pretty well. My husband and I have been together nine years, and I like him and love him. It just gets better. As for myself...you know the old thing; you work out what you can change, and hopefully lighten up and laugh at what you can't". So, if we believe this (and as we know, JM NEVER LIES), it would seem that the break-up started sometime after NRH. Phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:36:13 -0500 From: "Marsha" Subject: Oooh, the stench is awful (NJC) Hi, Marian. You wrote: >I had the impression that Marsha was just trying to be funny. I could hear you laughing all the way from the Alps to these here hills of Tennessee! ;-D Then I could hardly believe my nose.....a second fart from an ill-will wind(ed)! >>Marian, >> >>despite the natsy, derisive nature of Marsha's post, this much is >>clear...>>> "Attention JMDL shoppers: don your gas masks. We have turned on the fans and hope to have the place aired out any nanosecond now!" Marsha, humming..."It's stiffling in heeeerrrre...gotta get some air... goin' outside to get some air" (JM) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:57:09 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: joni wedding song Deb asks: <> That's true, and "Solid Love", as suggested by another, is a good choice, but "Jericho" was certainly good for me when I printed a copy and gave it to my wife inside a card for our 15th anniversary in January...A much more realistic attitude about the whole marriage thing, than, say, "We've only just begun"... <> Well now, if her covers are fair game, you've gotta go with "Why do Fools Fall in Love", which is also danceable :~) Although if you're free-spirited enough, *any* song is danceable! Like George Clinton says, "Free your mind and your ass will follow"... Bob NP: Billy Bragg, "North Sea Bubble" Deb Messling ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 16:30:39 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: (NJC) Loudest concerts It never pays to assume, Azeem. i do not use Country as a pejorative term. I assumed, wrongly, that nanci was country, till i was told otherwise by nancinetters. (no not a group of pc queens). AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 28/02/99 23:05:11, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: > > << Nanci Griffith, a country singer? Wash your mouth out! She has brains! She > is > folk! > >> > That's kind of my point about Lucinda! Although having said that, I imagine > that, unlike me, you use "country" as a pejorative term, and people who are > vaguely related to the idiom whom you happen to like get put in another > category. I hasten to add that I'm not knocking that at all, indeed it's > exactly what I do with the term "heavy metal" - I generally hate it, and any I > like I just don't consider to be heavy metal! > > Azeem - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:25:25 EST From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: JC-ish: Tattoos are like tattoos << Kate T. wrote: > Here's a question: If you were to get a Joni-type tattoo, what would it > be? (And you may tell us where, if you like!) >> Well.......I already have 2, so I probably don't need anymore..... ;-) I could really push the JC-thang, and say that one of them is "Joni-ish," (And I dreamed I saw the bombers riding shotgun in the sky...and they were turning into butterflies....) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:33:06 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: (NJC) Country brains Colin wrote: <<>> Wash your own mouth out, pardner. Brainlessness is certainly not required of country singers. In fact, this group includes some of the brainiest musicians I know, from Johnny Cash and Dolly Parton to Emmylou Harris, Matraca Berg, and Johnny's daughter Rosanne. - --Michael NP: Tom Waits, _Rain Dogs_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:11:19 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: FW: CDnow Update - Michael Yarbrough's Edition (SJC) CDNow is trying to sell me a copy of C&S "based on my past purchases." What I'm trying to figure out is this. My past purchases have from them have been the Roots, TLC, Madonna, and WTRF. Two hip-hop/R&B artists, one dance record, and a Joni, and somehow they come up with these as recommendations: Personal Recommendations For You Based on your past purchases, we think you would enjoy: On Sale ``````` Tori Amos Crucify Eric Clapton Time Pieces-Best Of E.C. Bob Dylan Blonde On Blonde Nanci Griffith Lone Star State Of Mind Hole Ask For It Sarah Mclachlan Surfacing Joni Mitchell Court & Spark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:51:15 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: Joni's Most Danceable Song David W. wrote: <<>> I was wondering when someone would say this!! My choice, too. At some point within the next two months my fellow dwellers and I will be throwing a party. The party is partially in reponse to a truly horrific experience we had recently where the host thought he could play "Mr. Vain," "What is Love," and the ilk over and over and call his apartment a dancefloor. Taking great pride in my music collection, I can hardly wait to put together a playlist of beloved disco/house/hip-hop favorites combined with unexpected but thoroughly danceable surprises. The absolute only Joni song I can even contemplate spinning is "Dreamland," perhaps at the end of a hip-hop set and leading into a Chaka/Rufus gem? In any case, please don't get me started on those awful BYT remixes. Perhaps I'll just have to stick with "Got 'Til It's Gone" if I want Joni to represent on my dancefloor... You know, the more I think about it, even "Dreamland" could probably only get Joni devotees moving. - --Michael NP: TLC, _Fanmail_ (which will be represented more than once on that night...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:17:56 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Beatles (NJC) Marion- I agree with David. The anthologies are fascinating pieces of Beatle history, but I suggest getting into them only after you have all the official albums, and are hungry for more. Also, pretty much all the famous singles they recorded were not included on the albums, songs like "Day Tripper", "I Want to Hold Your Hand", "Hey Jude", etc. They can be found on "Past Masters" Vol 1 & 2. And the Red and Blue albums were not put together by the Beatles or George Martin, but by Capitol records, so they are not the true "gospel according to the Fabs". Hope this helps. RR M.Russell@iaea.org wrote: > I want to replace my vinyl Beatles collection with CDs and I noticed that > there are several collections and anthologies of the Beatles music on the ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:19:38 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Most Danceable Joni tune Howard Wright wrote: > JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > > > > ...I say it's "Coyote," by a nose. Then "In France They Kiss On Main > > Street." Anyone differ? > > How 'bout The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines? > Yeah, the live S&L version kicks serious butt! RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:28:27 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: NJC: CD writers Howard Wright wrote: > There is NO loss of quality in the copy - this is the main advantage of > digital music. You can copy it any number of times, and you still end up > with exact replicas of the original. > In theory, anyway. I read an article by Stephen St. Croix in Mix Magazine recently, in which he experimented by copying the same digital music over and over, about 20 generations, and he said by then it sounded like audio doo doo. So something is lost, but in one or two generations, you will never notice. Digital music uses error correction ciruitry to recreate the lost parts using a sample of the previous information. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 17:37:46 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: joni wedding song Harry's House ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 17:40:11 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: (NJC) Country brains oh dear. someone neds a sense of humour transplant. Marsha should be able to help as she knows the American medical system. I am sure they do such a thing! Michael Yarbrough wrote: > Colin wrote: > > << brains!>>> > > Wash your own mouth out, pardner. Brainlessness is certainly > not required of country singers. In fact, this group includes some > of the brainiest musicians I know, from Johnny Cash and Dolly > Parton to Emmylou Harris, Matraca Berg, and Johnny's daughter > Rosanne. > > --Michael > > NP: Tom Waits, _Rain Dogs_ - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 10:16:14 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Most Danceable Joni tune Well I must say I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned "My Secret Place" - -- to which I find it very hard to sit still -- so it'll bet my 'most danceable' vote. WTRF is a good dance number, but really comes in for me as #1 Joni Air Guitar Solo Song! :-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 12:12:52 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: NJC Brian Wilson From: "Tube" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:24:30 +0100 >y'know it's funny, i'd never really thought about this until a few = weeks ago when it just came to me that this music of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys is the longest continuing soundtrack in my life. before the Stones, before Billie, before Miles!, before the Beatles, Dylan or Joni, there was Brian. late '62/early '63. i listen to this music and the memories flow. in living color ... the music in the room ... the movie in my mind. a whole lifetimes worth of memories. i guess that's the point and the amazing thing about music. >simon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------- Beautifully put Simon. It's thougnts like this that make the JMDL such a nice place to hang out in. Tube ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 12:12:05 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: NJC Loudest concert From: "Tube" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:54:46 +0100 I haven't been to many concerts but I'd say the loudest was The Enid at the Marquee in London in '79. Apart from seeing Rod Stewart in Manchester in '76 it was my first proper gig. I was excited to be visiting a venue like the Marquee, where people like the Who and the Jam had made their bones, but disappointed by the Enid. I'd been dragged into it by a friend, and I hated it, it was so loud as to be distorted, and as I was pushed right up against the stage at the front and I can remember being amazed that actual 'WIND' was coming out of the bass holes on the amplifiers and blowing in my face! Favourite concert was Kid Creole and the Coconuts at Hammersmith Odeon, '83. This time I was the instigator and persuaded two of my flatmates to dress up in black-tie and pith helmets and come along. I wore 1940s US Army dress gear, a la Stony Browder. We seemed to be the only ones in the audience who had made the effort, but we were too far back in the crowd to see the band well; It occurs to me now that it really is worth spending that bit extra for good seats at a gig that's important to you isn't it? Money saved on concert tickets is compromised dream-fulfillment. Spend it while you've got it! Tube ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:40:00 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC Loudest concert Definitely, The The, CBGB's, 1980. Long before anyone ever heard of them. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:23:36 -0000 From: "paul tyrer" Subject: UNSURPASSED? HI RR and everyone else the blue/ftr/C&S series of albums is unsurpassed? Nah, mate, it's the C&S, HoSL,HEJIRA series that's unsurpassed. She was at her most brilliant then IMHO. FTR was a gasp for breath after the fab Blue. As for her piano playing being the best on FTR I play piano and I find the tracks on HoSL the hardest to get my fingers round. Anyone else out there agree? I don't dance to Joni - though if I did I think I'd dance to the sax solo in BLack Crow (the S&L version), which is a real dancetoon. I wouldn't dance to Dancing Clown if it was the last toon on earth! Was Billy I and Tom P a Klein suggestion?? And while we're on Klein, has anyone out there ever thought J has pretty terrible taste in men?? I mean, Crosby - yeuch. Klein's moustache was *very* off. Don Alias wasn't much of a looker either. And Leonard Cohen has a distinct 'from the crypt' look about him. Graham Nash was quite cute, but one mountie doth not a mountain make*, IMHO. PX *Don't ask what this means, I've just made it up being unable to think of the approp. phrase. It's late, I'm tired blah blah. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:48:07 -0000 From: "paul tyrer" Subject: time sigs or what about fascination by everything but the girl (in 5/4) or even weirder - spark by tori amos which seems to be in 13/4!! Or something like that! PX ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:55:45 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: UNSURPASSED? Paul T. wrote: >And while we're on Klein, has anyone out there ever thought J has pretty >terrible taste in men?? I mean, Crosby - yeuch. Klein's moustache was >*very* off. Don Alias wasn't much of a looker either. And Leonard Cohen >has a distinct 'from the crypt' look about him. Graham Nash was quite cute, >but one mountie doth not a mountain make*, IMHO. This really cracks me up! I think Croz did have a short stretch where he was rather cute and so did James Taylor. John Guerin looked like he may have been cute, too. But you are right - Graham's the cutest and has held up better than the rest over time. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:05:17 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V4 #100 Dancing to Joni Someone among us intimated that it's difficult to dance to Joni's music. DISAGREE! STRONGLY DISAGREE! "Raised on Robbery" is a great dance tune. It rocks. Ditto for "Why Do Fools Fall in Love" and "Big Yellow Taxi" and "Black Crow" and "Carey" and "Underneath the Streetlight." I can't sit still when I hear "Lucky." "Blue Motel Room" is about the sultriest slow dance tune in the universe. Perhaps I'm a little autistic, but I haven't found any of her songs that I can't or won't dance to, even if it's just a little to-and-fro sway! Granted, Joni's music isn't written for the disco crowd, but it's as danceable as any offering from any other singer songwriter I know! Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:17:17 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: night ride home! (jc) Phil wrote: The following snippet is from an interview with Joni in the UK Sunday Telegraph Magazine, February 23rd, 1991. (One week before the release of NRH in the UK). "I know myself pretty well. My husband and I have been together nine years, and I like him and love him. It just gets better. As for myself...you know the old thing; you work out what you can change, and hopefully lighten up and laugh at what you can't". So, if we believe this (and as we know, JM NEVER LIES), it would seem that the break-up started sometime after NRH. Phil, I really did not mean this to be a debate over when exactly they broke up. Patrick initially asked us if we thought NRH was a "return" of Joni in some way and asked for our thoughts on it. I posted my thoughts and speculation as to why (and I think speculating on Klein's influence on her music is within bounds here). I stick by my statement below from a previous post as to my thoughts on the subject: >I did not mean to imply that the songs themselves on NRH >reflected their breaking up - I do think they convey a great >love between them (which I think is still there). It's just that >I felt she'd returned to her own essence in that album, and that >it may have coincided with her beginning to separate on some >level from Klein. Something that has also occurred to me the past week is that perhaps we cannot always take news articles as gospel, even when they quote Joni directly, because we do not always know the time frame which has transpired between when the interview took place and when it actually appears in print or other media. And it may be in Joni's life, just as is sometimes is in everyone's elses, that the status or well-being of any given relationship can seemingly change in the blink of an eye. A glaring example of this is the three posts in the past eight days regarding Joni's relationship with Kilauren. On February 21, 1999 Jacky posted to the list regarding an interview on the BBC the day before where Joni said her relationship with Kiluaren was going really well, etc. That same day Ken Corral posted an excert from the L.A. Times regarding Joni's sale of a house in the Hollywood Hills that quoted Joni as saying that her relationship with Kilauren was going really well, etc. (I also read this article and quote in the L.A. Times that day). But then a mere five days later, on February 26, 1999, Philip referred us to an interview with Joni in the Irish Times of that same date where Joni says Kilauren has "ostracized her" and that the relationship is "convoluted." Kakki NP: Taming the Tiger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:10:35 EST From: KerriLynn@aol.com Subject: the chieftans (sjc?) hey fellow listers!! was just wondering if anyone has heard the recent album from "the chieftans" which features tons of different artists (ie. joni, sarah et al) it seems to be there is a cover of 'magdalene laundries' (my spelling sucks) on it and was hoping the listers would have some input.... thanx... a favorite lurker.. kerri np: alana davis - 32 flavors ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:57:36 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Joni's quotes Kakki wrote: <> Good point, Kakki - to dovetail on to what you're saying, it could be also that she's misquoted or it's just bad reporting. One also gets the feeling that Joni gets tired of answering reporters' questions about her relationship with Kilauren (as well as other subjects) and is creating a bit of a subterfuge by putting information out there that is contradictory. By the same token, she does have a flair for the dramatic and seems to delight in saying things for effect. On one of the TT's when an interviewer references something she had previously said (in concert) and asked her about it, she comments that he shouldn't take everything she says on stage too seriously (or something to that effect), that it's not always accurate. Bob NP: Jackson Browne "Culver Moon" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:21:10 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Roses Paul T. wrote: " What do other people think about FTR?" Paul- I am with Kakki on this one. For the roses is my #1 Joni record. I love all the songs on this record (as I do Hejira). I go back and forth between Hejira and For the Roses as my faves. I don't perform any of the songs on FTR on GTR or piano, which is strange to me because I relate to so many of the themes of that record. Most of those songs I have found too difficult to play and sing at the same time. Hejira on the other hand I play alot both on guitar and piano. The title track for instance I learned on piano first and now I am learning it on gtr. Perhaps because most of the songs are on piano on FTR is why I am so attracted to it musically. I can play Cold Blue Steel, but can't sing it at the same time. Disjointed, weak musically and lyrically, are NOT terms I would use when discussing this record. For me, its her Sgt. Peppers. I love the way the songs fit and flow together. Come to one of Kakki's next joni get togethers and we can have a For the Roses marathon and enjoy it togther. Peace, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:30:56 -0000 From: "paul tyrer" Subject: Re: UNSURPASSED? Guerin (in that photo in MoA) looks like my Uncle John! Noooooo! (have you seen other photos??). There's a *very* cute man in that photo shoot, but I'm not sure I know which one he is. You'll know the one I mean! PX - -----Original Message----- From: Kakki To: paul tyrer ; guitarzan@saber.net ; joni@smoe.org Date: 01 March 1999 21:03 Subject: Re: UNSURPASSED? >Paul T. wrote: > >>And while we're on Klein, has anyone out there ever thought J has pretty >>terrible taste in men?? I mean, Crosby - yeuch. Klein's moustache was >>*very* off. Don Alias wasn't much of a looker either. And Leonard Cohen >>has a distinct 'from the crypt' look about him. Graham Nash was quite >cute, >>but one mountie doth not a mountain make*, IMHO. > > >This really cracks me up! I think Croz did have a short stretch where he >was rather cute and so did James Taylor. John Guerin looked like he may >have been cute, too. But you are right - Graham's the cutest and has held >up better than the rest over time. > >Kakki > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 23:21:37 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #100 I could dance to Joni only if someone re-mixed her with a dance backing. Like they did to ABBA. Louis Lynch wrote: > Dancing to Joni > > Someone among us intimated that it's difficult to dance to Joni's music. > > DISAGREE! STRONGLY DISAGREE! > > "Raised on Robbery" is a great dance tune. It rocks. > > Ditto for "Why Do Fools Fall in Love" and "Big Yellow Taxi" and "Black Crow" > and "Carey" and "Underneath the Streetlight." > > I can't sit still when I hear "Lucky." > > "Blue Motel Room" is about the sultriest slow dance tune in the universe. > > Perhaps I'm a little autistic, but I haven't found any of her songs that I > can't or won't dance to, even if it's just a little to-and-fro sway! > > Granted, Joni's music isn't written for the disco crowd, but it's as > danceable as any offering from any other singer songwriter I know! > > Harper Lou - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 16:19:44 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Chicken question From: John.Mitchell@ascend.com Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:55:26 -0800 I'm a big Joni fan, but have only 6 of her albums (so far). Well, seven counting WTRF, but I honestly think that one is pretty awful. Anyway, I heard what seemed to be a Joni Mitchell song on the Radio once and liked it, but haven't heard it since. All I remember about the song is that toward the end, there is a spoken part where Joni says something like "I talk all the time--like a chicken. Brock brock!" Does anybody have any idea what the line is or what song and album it's from? Any help would be appreciated. johnm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 15:28:08 -0800 From: John.Mitchell@ascend.com Subject: Re: Chicken question I'm a big Joni fan, but have only 6 of her albums (so far). Well, seven counting WTRF, but I honestly think that one is pretty awful. Anyway, I heard what seemed to be a Joni Mitchell song on the Radio once and liked it, but haven't heard it since. All I remember about the song is that toward the end, there is a spoken part where Joni says something like "I talk all the time--like a chicken. Brock brock!" Does anybody have any idea what the line is or what song and album it's from? Any help would be appreciated. johnm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 18:00:54 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Chicken question The song you're talking about is "Talk To Me," which is from Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, 1977. A fantastic album! Mark NP-Coyote At 4:19 PM -0700 3/1/99, John.Mitchell@ascend.com wrote: > All I remember about the song is that > toward the end, there is a spoken part where Joni says something like "I > talk all the time--like a chicken. Brock brock!" Does anybody have any > idea what the line is or what song and album it's from? Any help would be > appreciated. ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 20:02:18 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Roses At 07:21 PM 2/25/99 +0000, you wrote: Come to one of Kakki's next joni >get togethers and we can have a For the Roses marathon and enjoy it >togther. > I'll be there! FTR was my first introduction to Joni's music. It's still the only one I can sing to from beginning to end and not look at the lyrics. I could use a trip to the west coast :-) Heather (hey - has anyone heard from ric? or is he trapped on the island of lost luggage...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:04:55 -0600 From: Mary Pitassi Subject: Questions to ask Joni "Hey, Joni, on "Beat of Black Wings," are you singing "Johnny Angel," "Charlie Angel," or "Paul is dead?" ;-) Mary P. I had the chance. I blew the chance. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:17:52 -0600 From: Mary Pitassi Subject: In a "state of divorce" Sorry it's been a couple of days now since Kakki initiated this sub-thread, but what can I say? "I'm always running behind the times. . ." ;-) I'm pretty sure TI, not NRH, was the album that Joni made while in the midst of breaking up with Larry Klein. In addition to the "state of divorce" comment at the 1996 Grammys, Joni refers in some interview or article to separating from Klein on either the day or the day after they went into the studio to make TI. And about beginning her relationship with Freed in 1994: I somehow got the impression that she and Don became an item after the separation from Klein, but before the i's were dotted and the t's were crossed on the divorce (which seemed to take quite a bit of time. Is it even final now?) I agree with Kakki, though, that NRH shows that things were beginning to fray around the edges a bit before they made the separation official. And I also agree with whoever said that there seems to be a deep, abiding love between them, even now. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 17:52:41 -0800 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: I Love To Dance For any of us who attended the Warner Bros taping, or watched it on the tube, Joni likes to dance to "Comes Love" - Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:55:00 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Video Release Delayed Geeez!!! I just received this from Amazon.com from whom I placed a pre-release order for the "Painting With Words and Music" DVD. ( I don't even have the player yet but....) Greetings from Amazon.com! We are sorry to report that the offical release date for the new edition of the DVD "Mitchell: Painting with Words and Music" has been pushed back to March 30th of 1999. (snip) 1 of "Joni Mitchell:Painting With Words" Joni Mitchell(Primary Contributor) Item #: 6305301824 Order time availability: Not yet published - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:36:30 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem In a message dated 3/1/99 8:39:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: > Without a doubt, one of her masterworks. It could have gone much differently. > And one of her best live performances. And she is every bit the "poet" that > Yeats was. > I in no way meant to condemn Joni Mitchell for the reworking of the Yeats poem. I plainly and openly stated my reaction to it. I am no poetry expert but simply a lowly social worker who takes some solace in the beauty and truth sometimes offered in poetry. I have praised Joni's poetic talents on many occasions, including the posts I've made recently on Slouching Toward Bethlehem. I still maintain that to say she is as great a poet as Yeats is somewhat like saying she is as great a painter as Van Gogh because she painted the spoof on the self-portrait for the cover of Turbulent Indigo. Granted she added much more to the reworking of the Yeats poem with her composition of the music. Still, and it is entirely my opinion based on my personal reactions, I feel she takes more credit than she deserves for this particular piece of work. I'm a big fan of Joni's or I wouldn't bother to participate in this list. I take my turn wearing Joni colored glasses but in this case, I have to say that she is brilliant enough to have written her own lyrics, perhaps using the Yeats poem as inspiration but essentially presenting original work. I'm sure there is something I'm missing here which would help me to appreciate STB more than I am able to. Please feel free to point me toward any interviews where the artist herself discusses this particular piece of work or point me toward reviews that discuss this song (not that I care very much what criticis have to say but in this case I'd be willing to look at all points of view). It appears that I need to listen to the live performance of STB available on the tape tree which may help in modifying and perhaps, who knows, even changing my view on this. I never meant this to turn into a debate about whether Joni Mitchell is as good a poet as W.B. Yeats. I actually reacted to what David Marine said about the Mitchell reworking perhaps being better than the actual poem by Yeats, I did not mean to compare or rate one over the other the overall merit of these two incredible and brilliant minds. David Marine wrote: As far as Joni and Yeats not being in the same "league," Gina, I'm not really sure that I understand what you're suggesting. Are you making a distinction between poetry and lyrics? Between academic/literary works and Joni's more individualistic approach? Between established works and contemporary works? Please clarify. David, I'm laughing because...well...the answer is yes to all of the above! I would clarify except that you've pretty much done it for me. I would like to add, though...and this is rather unformed (sorry), that I'm not sure if we were to discuss this among a staid group of poets and Yeas scholars that they would know who Join Mitchell was, let alone give her any credit for her reworking of the Yeas poem. Maybe, maybe not. I don't think that Join has exactly been studied to the same extent that a dead poet has. Perhaps someday she will be. She is certainly worthy of it in her genre. Everyone take care, Gina ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #102 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?