From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #100 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Sunday, February 28 1999 Volume 04 : Number 100 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Mark Isham (JC) ["Kakki" ] NRH/FTR/DED ["paul tyrer" ] Re: CD Rom rewriters [catman ] Re: NRH/FTR/DED - Klein influence ["Kakki" ] Re: NRH/FTR/DED - Klein influence [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Joni's Most Danceable Song [Marian Russell ] Re: NRH/FTR/DED [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: NRH/FTR/DED - Klein influence [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: night ride home! (jc) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: NRH/FTR/DED [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Mark Isham [Scott Price ] Re: Joni's Most Danceable Song [LRFye@aol.com] Re: NRH/FTR/DED [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: NRH/FTR/DED [LRFye@aol.com] Favorites and Converts [LRFye@aol.com] Most danceable song [Bounced Message ] Re: (NJC) Loudest concerts [AzeemAK@aol.com] $800,000 house? NJC [simon@icu.com] Beach Boys Box Set Request (NJC) [simon@icu.com] The ForeMother Of Four-String (NJC) [simon@icu.com] Marian's question really answered here ["Marsha" ] NP: Painting With Words & Music [simon@icu.com] Questions about midi files ["Marsha" ] I Love To Dance [Leslie Mixon ] Re: I Love To Dance ["Kakki" ] Re: I Love To Dance [Phyliss Ward ] RE: Mark Isham (njc) [patrick leader ] Joni On Swedish Radio! ["Peter Holmstedt" ] RDC time sig [michaelb@coolgold.com.au (Michael)] Plug Of The Week #8 ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Re: NRH/FTR/DED [Randy Remote ] Re: NP: Painting With Words & Music [Mark Domyancich ] Re: (NJC) Loudest concerts [catman ] Re: I Love To Dance ["Marsha" ] Re: Mark Isham (njc) ["Kakki" ] Jonis Most Dancable Song [Lisa Kowalski ] Re: I Love To Dance [LRFye@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 01:46:30 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Mark Isham (JC) Just returned from seeing Mark Isham at the Viper Room. I talked with him after the performance and asked him to sign my TTT CD cover. This gave me the chance to ask him why he had not been credited on the album. He said "that's what we would all like to know." (Gee, I wonder if the same person who proofed Joni's lyrics book proofed the TTT cover?!) He did say that he will be credited in the next phase of TTT CDs going out. His demeanor changed at the mention of Joni and he seemed very in awe of her. Told me very proudly that he'd toured with her and been at Woodstock and her taping. I just nodded and nodded and told him I'd been at the tapings and the LA concerts. He sounded almost apologetic that he could not tour with her during the Fall because their schedules conflicted but emphasized to me "I would tour with her anytime I could." I asked him if anything was coming up and he shook his head no, but emphasized again that he would be there anytime she wanted him. His performance tonight was interesting. It was him, a bass player, lead guitar player and a drummer and he calls it "The Electronic Project". He operated all kind of techno gizmos and the sound was very electronica fusion. He would play the trumpet and then sample it and play it back in a loop. The guitar players used a Rocktron pre-amp which would convert what they were playing into other kinds of sounds and even play it backward. Reminded me a little of the VG-8 but they were not using that. The Viper Room is a tiny little place and mostly standing room only. My lucky streak is continuing and the security men insisted I take one of the few reserved booths situated right in front of Isham! (heehee) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:33:09 -0000 From: "paul tyrer" Subject: NRH/FTR/DED Hi everyone I'm not sure I agree with kakki that klein's influence on the 80s records was so great. I really think that's the direction joni herself wanted to go in - I don't know why I think that, it's just my intuition. She's always been such an independent figure, I find it hard to imagine her as being pushed in that radical new direction by anyone, even a lover with the importance of klein. I also think NRH is a very UP record, unlike DED, CMIAR and TI, and have a feeling that she was happy when she wrote the songs. I agree though that NRh sounds more like 'authentic' Joni (whatever that is) - it sounds more like the Joni we knew and loved in the 60s and 70s from where most of us draw our Joni strength. I loved the record when it first came out and played it to death but don't play it much now. Whereas I was never that keen on TI when it came out, but it still gets very regular plays. Odd. I like The Windfall - is it about her spat with her Guatamalan maid? One other point I wanted to make was about FTR. This seems to be one of many people's faves and although it's got some good tracks on it (See You Sometime and Lesson in Survival are fantastic, as is the title track), a lot of the material seems lyrically and musically weak to me - almost as if she's playing weird chords that aren't (to come back to this problem word) 'authentically' joni and seems to be struggling to find post-Blue words that aren't so emotionally connected. I think of the peculiar sound of Sweet Fire, Barangrill, and Banquet in particular - and their rather disjointed, disconnected words. I think of Electricity, which I find over-wrought. I notice that Colin has placed FTR in #11 on his recent Joni chart so wonder whether this less-than-100%-approval for FTR is a Brit-thing. What do other people think about FTR? And I know a lot of people dislike DED - is it the production values? Cos I actually think some of the songs on DED are really strong and would like to hear Joni covering them now with her new guitar sound. Good Friends, DED, Shiny Toys, Tax Free, 3 Great Stims - these have all got great tunes. Has anyone ever heard stripped down guitar versions of these? If so what were they like? It's odd, for someone who complains that her 80s music is overlooked, that JM herself doesn't seem to do much to promote it in her recent live sets. PX NP - Madonna - ray of light ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:12:18 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: CD Rom rewriters Gene-I have a Hewlett Packard cd writer(for the pc). I have copied many cd's. The sound quality is exactly the same. The best toy I ever bought, after the pc. Gene Mock wrote: > Can anyone out there answer if the current generation of CDRom rewriters(?) > are capable of copying the CD's with music? Is there a substantial > difference in sound quality like is apparent when copying videos? Thanks > You Gene - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 06:03:19 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NRH/FTR/DED - Klein influence Paul T. wrote: >I'm not sure I agree with kakki that klein's influence on the 80s records >was so great. I really think that's the direction joni herself wanted to go >in - I don't know why I think that, it's just my intuition. She's always >been such an independent figure, I find it hard to imagine her as being >pushed in that radical new direction by anyone, even a lover with the >importance of klein. I think we have to distinguish between what Joni wanted and Klein's actual influence. I would not argue whether Joni *wanted* to go in the direction she went in the 80s albums - I have to assume that she did because she put her name on them. But there can be no argument about Klein's influence on them - the record (pun intended) speaks for itself. And it's more than influence in many cases, it's outright equal, co-starring collaboration. In that sense, these albums least reflect Joni's essence in that it is a commingled essence and not entirely hers alone, as were all her previous albums (with the exception of Mingus). Joni + Larry does not equal standalone Joni to me, just like Lennon + McCartney does not equal standalone Lennon to me. And while many will argue that in the case of the Lennon-McCartney collaboration, the sum was greater than the parts, I would dispute that would be true with the Mitchell-Klein collaboration. I don't mean this as a knock on Larry nor Joni. I just think she was/is sufficient unto herself as an artist and always has been. Here is Klein's influence on Joni's 80s albums as recorded in their credits: WILD THINGS RUN FAST - 1. "Rhythm arrangements on Wild Things Run Fast and You're So Square by Larry Klein and Vince Colaiuta" 2. "Special thanks to Larry Klein for caring about and fussing over this record along with me." DOG EAT DOG - 1. "Produced by Joni Mitchell, Larry Klein, Mike Shipley, Thomas Dolby" 2. "Fiction - Words by Joni Mitchell - Music by Larry Klein" 3. "Tax Free - Words by Joni Mitchell - Music by Larry Klein" CHALK MARK IN A RAIN STORM - 1. "Produced by Joni Mitchell and Larry Klein" 2. "Lakota - Words by Joni Mitchell - Music by Larry Klein and Joni Mitchell" 3. "Tea Leaf Prophecy - Words by Joni Mitchell - Music by Larry Klein and Joni Mitchell" 4. "Snakes and Ladders - Words by Joni Mitchell - Music by Larry Klein and Joni Mitchell" In contrast, while he is still listed as co-producer, only one song on NRH is credited in anyway to Klein - the music in "Nothing Can Be Done" Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:35:32 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: NRH/FTR/DED - Klein influence In a message dated 99-02-28 09:15:14 EST, kakkib@att.net writes: > But there can be no argument about Klein's influence on >them - the record (pun intended) speaks for itself. And it's more than >influence in many cases, it's outright equal, co-starring collaboration. In >that sense, these albums least reflect Joni's essence in that it is a >commingled essence and not entirely hers alone, as were all her previous >albums This elaboration helps to put Kakki's first comments in better light. It certainly stopped me to think more about it. My humble comparison is my house. When I bought it last year, lacking the money for remodelling, I did some cheap redecorating. I knew what I wanted and what I liked. I also have two close friends, one of whom has tastes that are simliar to mine, the other who does not. It was the former who really did the bulk of the work while I spent the day at work earning the mortgage money. She did not do a single thing to the house that I did not like. Many of her ideas echoed ones of my own, but there were a good number that I just did not think about for myself but the ideas were either tailor made for me or directions that suited my tastes. And yet, she has distinctive tastes of her own that just are not "me" and I would not want to see dangling down from my bedroom ceiling..... What does this mean for the Klein influence? I think that it reveals a wonderful level of trust that between the two of them. That he understood her direction enough that the collaboration was less Klein's standalone ideas and more his ideas that had already gone through a "Joni-filter." I see the collaboration as more of Klein being a "joni-by-proxy." A way of giving her more hands to stir the pot if you will, so that it is Joni+Larry in certain ways could be standalone Joni. MG - wondering why she can't train that darn parakeet to bring in my morning coffee..... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:04:22 +0100 From: Marian Russell Subject: Re: Joni's Most Danceable Song On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 05:36:21 EST, JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > ...I say it's "Coyote," by a nose. Then "In France They Kiss On Main > Street." > Anyone differ? > I would say Raised On Robbery is her most danceable song. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:53:49 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: NRH/FTR/DED In a message dated 2/28/99 5:42:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, paul@tyrer23.freeserve.co.uk writes: << I think of Electricity, which I find over-wrought. I notice that Colin has placed FTR in #11 on his recent Joni chart so wonder whether this less-than-100%-approval for FTR is a Brit-thing. What do other people think about FTR? >> FTR is what hooked me as a musician. Her guitar playing- how she made up all those open tunings- the pure lushness of it- that's what blew me away. I loved her early records but to me, this one had more dimension. I began to seriously study her open tunings after listening to this album. As for lyrics, I'm the wrong one to ask because I tend to judge all music by the sound first, not by the words. FWIW, Electricity is one of my all time favorite Joni songs. Terry, checking in from the USA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:59:24 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: NRH/FTR/DED - Klein influence In a message dated 2/28/99 9:15:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << In contrast, while he is still listed as co-producer, only one song on NRH is credited in anyway to Klein - the music in "Nothing Can Be Done" >> Interesting, Kakki. That's the only song on the album I don't like. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:37:46 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: night ride home! (jc) In a message dated 2/27/99 12:32:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, trxschwa@bway.net writes: > a couple of quick thoughts. gina wrote about slouching: > > >she stole whole lines from Yeats and added many of her own > > well she actually contacted the yeats estate and got permission to set the > 'the second coming' to music, including changes, so it was done honourably, > at least. i don't think she actually added any lines, just repeated some > that don't repeat in the poem and changed the order of others. sacrelige > to to the poetry fans, i suppose, but she created one of the finest moments > in an album full of them. i'm happy. > Patrick, Thanks for the information regarding Joni asking permission of the Yeats estate to rework the The Second Coming. I did not know this and I agree, that is honorable. David Marine wrote: And I know a lot of people dislike DED - is it the production values? Cos > I actually think some of the songs on DED are really strong and would like > to hear Joni covering them now with her new guitar sound. I haven't listened to DED in years. I have it on vinyl and still haven't gotten around to purchasing it on CD. Your question makes me want to revisit this album very soon. My recollection is that when I first listened to it, I said to myself " this is not my beautiful Joni" - I didn't like the sound at all. However, I still read the lyrics and they are very, very good and stand on their own as poems. As close to cutting-edge contemporary poetry as song lyrics get. My Sunday afternoon reading today will include DED. Too bad my turntable is out of commission. Everyone take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:41:20 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Mark Isham At 01:46 AM 2/28/99 -0800, Kakki wrote: >Just returned from seeing Mark Isham at the Viper Room. >His performance tonight was interesting. >all kind of techno gizmos and the sound was very electronica fusion. Hey Kakki, Any chance this show was produced by Larry Klein and Thomas Dolby? :-) But seriously, it's great to hear that Isham has much reverence for Joni. Seemingly all the backing musicians she's hired over the years have been very complimentary and not the least bit hesitant to state that they'd love to be part of her band, anytime. I find it high praise indeed that the likes of Isham, Metheney, Jaco, Shorter, Blade, (OK, Klein too), et. al. would be at her beck and call. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:46:20 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Most Danceable Song Marian wrote: > I would say Raised On Robbery is her most danceable song. I agree. This has been confirmed by the "Gema test." My friend Gema does not dance -- ever, to anything -- as her opinion is that people look like fools when they dance and she refuses to become a part of THAT! However, whenever Raised On Robbery is played, Gema cannot help but begin to wriggle and bop around on her chair or barstool. (She is resolute in her determination that this activity does not consitute dancing. I say it's a close second.) Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:04:44 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: NRH/FTR/DED In a message dated 2/28/99 4:42:18 AM Central Standard Time, paul@tyrer23.freeserve.co.uk writes: << I think of the peculiar sound of Sweet Fire, Barangrill, and Banquet in particular - and their rather disjointed, disconnected words. I think of Electricity, which I find over-wrought. I notice that Colin has placed FTR in #11 on his recent Joni chart so wonder whether this less-than-100%-approval for FTR is a Brit-thing. What do other people think about FTR?>> I love it! I discovered it late, C&S being my first Joni purchase and everything else after it. It wasn't until the late 80's when I picked up FTR and I think it's every bit as good as C&S, an effective bridge from LOTC to C&S - I love the variety of sounds, the mix of piano & guitar, flutes, orchestral sounds...of course her words are always superior, this record always gives me lots of mental images, I can "see" so much of what she's singing about... <> I agree - the songs are strong, but the production places it squarely in the time in which it was made, it has a very Toto-ish quality. I still enjoy it, but it doesn't transcend it's time for me the way Hejira, TI, FTR, HOSL, DJRD do. Bob NP: Liz Story, "The Empty Forest" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:06:35 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: NRH/FTR/DED Paul T. wrote: > And I know a lot of people dislike DED - is it the production values? Cos > I actually think some of the songs on DED are really strong and would like > to hear Joni covering them now with her new guitar sound. I've been a huge fan of DED since its release, partly because I was so hungry for new Joni then, and partly because the album reflected my sentiments at the time, when I was doing my NATO gig in (then West) Germany and didn't like much of anything else the 80s produced. > Good Friends, > DED, Shiny Toys, Tax Free, 3 Great Stims - these have all got great tunes. I still think that some of the above songs -- and Lucky Girl -- would be received very well if they could ever get airplay. Lori, who dreams of being a dj on KSYM (college radio station in San Antonio), with a program devoted to Joni, Joan A., Joan B., etc. -- oh hell, all the Joans! It would be for people who understand what a Joan jones is ... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:30:59 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Favorites and Converts Lately I've been mulling over my "favorite" and "least favorite" Joni albums, and I've come to the conclusion that, while Hejira remains my absolute favorite album of all time by anyone, the rest of Joni's catalogue is equally good. I go through periods of not playing a particular Joni album for many months (or years, as up until recently I had some albums on vinyl only), and then I decide to give it a spin and I am once again astounded by its depth and creativity and beauty. As a result, I now realize that I don't really have a least favorite Joni album. Last week I was playing DJRD at work, and one of two "good ol' boy" brothers was the only other person in our suite at the time. Now Lyles isn't really a red neck -- in fact, he's quite open-minded -- but he is a card-carrying conservative Republican rancher type of guy, about 48 or 49 years old. I know he and his brother (and my boss) definitely did NOT take part in the hippie lifestyle of their high school/college years. Lyles' knowledge of Joni has been limited to, "Court and Heart or something; what's the name of that album?" Anyway, I had the volume a little louder than I would've if my boss (Opera Man) had been there. After about two "sides" of DJRD, Lyles said to me, "I REALLY like that music!!" So I grabbed the CD case from my desk drawer, showed it to him and explained that the black man on the cover was Joni (he thought that was so cool), and then Lyles asked me: "Is that her newest album?" I told him no, it came out in 1977, and his eyes got VERY WIDE. He began to marvel at Joni's talent, etc., and asked me to write down the names of that album and my favorite Joni album, so I did. Perhaps we have another convert? Yee-hah! Lori, trying to win 'em over in San Antonio NP: Number One ("Oh there must be more to living / Than a mortgage and a lawn to mow.") ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:50:17 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Most danceable song From: "Tube" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:41:53 +0100 >Subject: Joni's Most Dancable Song... >I say it's "Coyote," by a nose. Then "In France They Kiss On Main = >Street." >Anyone differ? >Julius Dancing to Joni Mitchell?? Now this I gotta see - Send me a Real Player = video clip of it please - What are you, some kind of hippy? ;-) Humming, whistling, toe tapping, finger-clicking, re-bopping, floating, = dreaming, weeping, laughing, air-guitaring, freaking out even... But = DANCING to Joni Mitchell? No way Jose. Whatever would the neighbours = think? Love, Tube 'come on over with some of your old Motown records' funky bitch = soulboy Nixon. (It takes all sorts to make a Joni List) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:23:37 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Loudest concerts In a message dated 2/22/99 6:45:03PM, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << in october 97, I saw Nanci Griffith at the Royal Albert Hall. it was spoiled by the loudness of it. I hardly thought her sort of music would be played at full blast. I sat withing the first few rows. next time, I'd sit outside! >> I thought you didn't like country singers Colin :-) I also saw Nanci in 1997 at the Albert Hall, although it was earlier in the year. It was the one with the Crickets, and it was a lovely show all round. I was sitting in the front row, with two friends, who were a couple; there just happened to be an empty seat to my left, and Nanci obviously thought I'd been stood up, and towards the end she said something about "You look so lonely", plucked a rose from her buttonhole and threw it to me! Needless to say, I still have it. The loudest gig I ever went to was Eddie Floyd at the 100 Club, a tiny venue on London's Oxford Street. It was a crappy sound system, cranked up to 11. At one point I swear I felt something pass directly through my eardrum. I couldn't hear properly afterwards, which wasn't unprecedented, but when I still couldn't hear in the morning, I was seriously frightened. I was helping my mother choose an amplifier the next day, as it happened, and my impaired hearing probably condemned her to several years of lo-fi music listening. Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:48:07 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: $800,000 house? NJC From: Marian Russell asks ... >________________________________________________________ >Could someone please send me the scoop on Kilauren and >the $800,000 house? > >Marian >________________________________________________________ Marian, there's NO scoop to send. there's NO connection between Kilauren Gibb and that house. None. it was *conjecture* on the part of a JMDL member, based on ... Nothing! for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:48:46 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Beach Boys Box Set Request (NJC) MGVal@aol.com writes ... >________________________________________________________________________ >My neighbor wants me to order a Beach Boys box set for him from work. >Trouble is, he doesn't know which one he should get. Anyone out there >have any recommendations for this purchase? I'm not a BB fan, so I have >nothing really to offer other than the wholesale price less my employee >>discount. > >Thanks in advance! > >MG >________________________________________________________________________ MG, my first inclination is to suggest The Pet Sounds Sessions. after all PET SOUNDS is one of the major musical achievments of the 20th century. "No one is educated musically 'til they've heard Pet Sounds... It is a total, classic record that is unbeatable in many ways." --Paul McCartney "Without Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper wouldn't have happened... Pepper was an attempt to equal Pet Sounds." --George Martin "Pet Sounds was my inspiration for making Sgt. Pepper...the big influence...the musical invention...was the big thing for me. I just thought, 'Dear me. This is the album of all time. What are we gonna do'?" --Paul McCartney "If there is one person that I would have to select as a living genius of pop music, I would choose Brian Wilson." --George Martin, 1996 Producer, The Beatles "I've often play Pet Sounds and cried." --Paul McCartney However, for a career spanning retrospective on the musical genius of Brian Wilson, realized thru the recordings of The Beach Boys, the clear choice would have to be ... "GOOD VIBRATIONS: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys" The ultimate compilation spanning their full career, from the home demo of "Surfin' USA" to the number one hit "Kokomo." Over 120 songs on 4 CDs, including many never-before-released selections and rare finds, plus a bonus CD featuring live tracks and special collectors' session material. also *highly* recommended is ... "WOULDN'T IT BE NICE, A Jazz Portrait Of Brian Wilson" if your friend wants to explore a little further he should definitely pick up the (single) CD 'Pet Sounds' as well as 'Friends' and 'Stack-O-Tracks' y'know it's funny, i'd never really thought about this until a few weeks ago when it just came to me that this music of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys is the longest continuing soundtrack in my life. before the Stones, before Billie, before Miles!, before the Beatles, Dylan or Joni, there was Brian. late '62/early '63. i listen to this music and the memories flow. in living color ... the music in the room ... the movie in my mind. a whole lifetimes worth of memories. i guess that's the point and the amazing thing about music. MG, hope some of this helps you and your friend. for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:49:11 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: The ForeMother Of Four-String (NJC) While on the subject of Brian Wilson. From: MOJO Magazine, June 1996 She's Carol Kaye, and she's recorded more influential bass lines than even the history books allow. Famed for her work with Spector's Wrecking Crew (and on Pet Sounds), she may also have plucked some of Motown's most famous, most imitated botton ends. Mark Cunningham investigates. ____________________________________________________________________________ The Hollywood Session world of the '60s, where Carol Kaye was the first-call bassist for Phil Spector, Brian Wilson, Quincy Jones and countless other ground-breaking record makers was, she says, "a serious, military-like business, carefully guided to hit-making". Carol contributed her seasoned plectrum-struck bottom end to some of pop's most durable classics: Ike & Tina Turner's RIVER DEEP, MOUNTAIN HIGH, The Doors LIGHT MY FIRE and she says, The Four Tops REACH OUT I'LL BE THERE. Yes, even if she remains little-known, her work has inspired dozens of rock bass players, Sting, Paul McCartney and John Paul Jones among them, but it was as a jazz guitarist that Kaye earned her stripes. Impressed by her chops at LA's Beverly Caverns club, music mogul Bumps Blackwell invited Carol to perform on a December 1957 session for a young singer he'd recently discovered: Sam Cooke. Later, she was the lone female in the Wrecking Crew - -- a pool of skillful, but unusually casual musicians plucked fromthe nightclub circuit and employed as Phil Spector's regular squad at Gold Star Studios -- the personification of The Wall Of Sound. Carol was still playing guitar in 1965 when, according to her log book, she appeared on the Righteous Brothers' YOU'VE LOST THAT LOVIN' FEELING, and was paid $64 for a three-hour session. "People have labelled Phil as being nutty but he was always good to me," say Kaye, now 61. "Though when I was eight months pregnant and sweating for two or three hours with no break, I had to scream at him to give us a break or I was going to wet my pants! He dutifully called a break and the guys later thanked me, the bums!" Soon after that, Carol seized an opportunity to switch from six to four strings. "Suddenly, I was able to play a lot of the stuff that had been in my head for years, you know, all those funky bass lines. I became obsessive about practising on this new instrument to get up my sense of grove together." Her unique pick style gave the Fender electric bass a new voice, and she quickly found herself at the top of her specialised tree. She'd added guitar to many early Beach Boys hits, but with HELP ME RHONDA she became their resident bass player continuing on through PET SOUNDS (her work influencing Macca's lines on REVOLVER and SGT PEPPER) and GOOD VIBRATIONS. "Brian was illiterate in writing music down but, aside from a few licks, it was all his. There was always lots of experimentation on the sessions for GOOD VIBRATIONS, but no ad libbing on my part because Brian had such definite bass ideas. There were many takes. It was very exasperating but, being professionals, creating a hit record was the goal." PET SOUNDS was not the only benchmark recording to feature Carol's work. It's generally believed that all of Motown's major hits up until the late '60s were cut at Hitsville, Motown's Detroit studio, by the Funk Brothers - -- the bass and drums duo of James Jamerson and Benny Benjamin, pianist Earl Van Dyke and guitarist Robert White. But confusion surrounds this supposition. Carol's session log notes 136 Motown dates in LA with the Wrecking Crew, where she -- not Jamerson, she claims -- used her faithful Fender on crucial Motown cuts like The Four Tops REACH OUT I'LL BE THERE, BERNEDETTE, and STANDING IN THE SHADOWS OF LOVE, The Supremes BABY LOVE, YOU KEEP ME HANGIN' ON and YOU CAN'T HURRY LOVE and Stevie Wonder's I WAS MADE TO LOVE HER. Many track like these were cut in a garage belonging to Motown engineer Armin Steiner in LA, and featured guide vocals by a group named the Lewis Sisters. According to drummer Hal Blaine, another of the Spector and Wilson regulars, the vocals were replaced by the Motown artists once the tapes reached Detroit: "After each session, Armin would book a flight back to Detroit with two first-class seats -- one for him and the other for the tapes. Then they'd try recording with different vocal groups and release the versions that worked best." "There's a secrecy that surrounds the real truth," adds Carol. "I'm sure that even the lead singers had no idea where their tracks came from. The Detroit crew did many fine hits but i think that there is a fear of losing Motown 'ownership'." Disenchanted with the effect that Hollywood's escalating drug culture was having on tudio life in the late '60s, non-smoking, teetotal, vegetarian mother-of-three Kaye quit the session scene in 1970, preferring to work only on select dates and movig soundtracks. "People had this crazy idea that the hits of the '60s were mostly cut on drugs. But those hits were cut by clean-living musicians who were thrilled to stay off the road to be with their families while earning a fantastic living. We did as many as four or five sessions a day. Most musicians now are lucky to get that many in a month." The next decade saw her develop as a bass tutor and host a series of instructional tapes and videos. Ill health dogged her in the '80s but, last year, the German label Hotwire issued 'The First Lady On Bass', a compilation of her work. Her reacquaintance with Brian Wilson promotes major intrigue. "Brian recently asked me and Hal to play on a track he was recording [with Carnie and Wendy*] and it went so well that we're gonna do more. And then there's the PET SOUNDS Tour." Excuse me? "Brian's trying to get as many of the guys who played on the album together again for a proposed 12-city US Tour** in the fall so that the Beach Boys can perform authentic versions of PET SOUNDS, GOOD VIBRATIONS and a whole bunch of other stuff from that period. It's something I'm really looking forward to." "Carol is truly the greatest person who ever picked up a bass," says Blaine. "We made such solid music together and always locked naturally without rehersal. When we recorded again with Brian it was perfect from the first downbeat, as if we'd never stopped playing together. She was the woman I should have married!" - --------------------------------- * this song "Everything I Need" is from 'The Wilsons', the self-titled album released by Carnie and Wendy Wilson, Brian's daughters. Brian sings on 4-tracks and produced two of these. ** this Tour never materialized, However! Brian IS coming folks. March 9, Ann Arbor, MI. Michigan Theater March 10, Chicago, IL. Rosemont Theater March 12, Milwaukee, WI. Pabst Theater March 13, Minneapolis, MN. State Theater June 18, New York, NY. Beacon Theater for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- PS: often the best Man for a job is a WoMan. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:58:19 -0500 From: "Marsha" Subject: Marian's question really answered here Hey, Marian! "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.... I...uh... I AM THE GREAT....(voice down to a whiny whimper) and powerful.... Oz..." >Marian, > >there's NO scoop to send. >there's NO connection between Kilauren Gibb and that house. None. > >it was *conjecture* on the part of a JMDL member, based on ... Nothing! Well, somebody CALL THE CONJECTURE POLICE and take a couple of us away.....HAHAHA! So here is the nothing: Joni has a modest, refurbished house on the market for sale that was listed in some sort of regular "celebrity homes for sale" section of the LA Times last Sunday and was mentioned by Harry Shearer (of "(This is) Spinal Tap" fame and other things) on a syndicated radio thing he does that JMDL member Ken Corral heard that day and shared with us....thanks, Ken! Joni is wealthy and not well-known to the conjecture police for her need to turn a dollar with short-term real estate investment deals in the just-now recovering market on the West Coast. JMDL member-in-good-standing Kakki and lil' 'ol me posted our musings about the timeliness of this type of transaction and Joni's new revelations via the Irish Times that Kilauren has "ostracized" her. Then more was mentioned about the relative price/value ratio of Hollywood Hills real estate these days... This is all we know. I guess you could go grill the back-channel-chatterers for the Rest of The Story based on their(his) oft CAPITALIZED protestations of the usual... Marsha, hoping to make that European jaunt to the Joni Cafe in Vienna to sing along with 'ya when we get out of speculation hell (more whimpering): "The great...and...powerful OZ...has...spoken..." [fade-to-black] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:20:14 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: NP: Painting With Words & Music thankx to a good friend and contact, i rec'd a LaserDisc copy of 'Painting With Words & Music' a few weeks back. it IS going to be well worth the wait folks. it looks Fabulous! and the sound on both the digital and analog soundtracks is crystal clear, smooth and quite clean. in fact, the analog may have a slight edge over the digital. HOWEVER, it's becoming increasingly difficult to overlook some of the really *stupid* mistakes these companies make when it comes to song titles. the songs as listed: 1. Tiger Bones 2. Big Yellow Taxi 3. Just Like This Train 4. Night Ride Home 5. The Crazy Cries Of Love 6. HARRY'S HOME <<<<< (Harry's HOUSE) 7. Black Crow 8. Ameila 9. Hejira 10. Sex Kills 11. THE MAGDELENE LAUNDRIES <<<<< (MagdAlene Laundries) 12. Moon At The Window 13. Face Lift 14. Why Do Fools Fall In Love? 15. Trouble Man 16. NOTHING CAN BE DONE <<<<< (actually 'Comes Love') 17. Song For Sharon 18. Woodstock 19. Dreamland - -------------- Yea OK, Joni does have a song called 'Nothing Can Be Done' but this ain't it. in fact it wasn't performed on *either* night last may in Burbank. to the best of my knowledge it's never been performed live. so where DO they come up with this sh*it? Wally tells me the videotape packaging contains the same mistakes. Too Bad. another small point, it would have been nice touch if the Pay-Per-View 'Introduction' had been included on the home-video version, but it isn't. this was to be expected but is still unfortunate. it was the perfect set-up for the program. Oh Well ... for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:30:07 -0500 From: "Marsha" Subject: Questions about midi files Hi all you computer geeks out in Joniland. I have a tech question and specifically to Ken Slarty, who has all those darling Joni songs on his spread-the-gospel-of-Our Lady of Duality-amen webpage at: http://www.total.net/~slarty/midi.htm I am currently working on my own picture-laden Joni shrine in the form of a homepage for my grad course pre-req, and wonder if these little ditties are in the public-with-credit domain, or if I have to bribe Ken and others with some token/trinket of my affection and awe for this amazing use of cyber-music? The latest additions to the midi files are really gorgeous...especially Two Grey Rooms, Down to You, and Taming the Tiger. Thanks in advance, Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:06:17 -0800 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: I Love To Dance I recommend "Raised On Robbery" as a way fun dance tune. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:06:16 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: I Love To Dance Leslie wrote: >I recommend "Raised On Robbery" as a way fun dance tune. From the subject heading I thought for a moment there you were going to name "In France They Kiss On Main Street!" My most danceable Joni song (and this is just what gets me up moving personally for some odd reason) is "Lead Balloon"! Kakki NP: One for Every Moment - CPR Live at the Wiltern - GORGEOUS song writeen by Crosby's long-lost-now found son James Raymond ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 02:22:21 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: I Love To Dance I want to dance when I hear... Good Friends Fiction > Leslie wrote: > > >I recommend "Raised On Robbery" as a way fun dance tune. Kakki wrote: > My most danceable Joni song (and this is just what gets me up moving > personally for some odd reason) is "Lead Balloon"! - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:23:13 -0500 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: Mark Isham (njc) hey kakki, thanks for the report! His performance tonight was interesting. It was him, a bass player, lead guitar player and a drummer and he calls it "The Electronic Project". He operated all kind of techno gizmos and the sound was very electronica fusion. it's funny, his contributions to 'sons of champlin' in 70s was more as a synth arranger than as a trumpeter, and his great new age album 'vapour drawings' is much more about electronic texture than trumpet virtuosity. i'm thrilled that he's still exploring technology. kakki, your np lines have reported a lot of 'sons' listening recently. is it new stuff or older? is isham involved? patrick np - chalkmark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:35:18 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Joni On Swedish Radio! Hi there, I've just finished listening to "Musikbolaget" on Swedish Radio FM P4 . This show featured half an hour of a recent interview plus some music by Joni ! There's still hope for radio! Take care, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:28:44 +1100 (EST) From: michaelb@coolgold.com.au (Michael) Subject: RDC time sig My apologies if this hits Joni land twice Hi Marcel I had a quick listen and I would say it is in 6/8 4/4... Most of the song sits on 6/8 but she throws in a bar of 4/4 in places.Just before the verse and just before the chorus too I think. For something more offbeat have a listen to Mother on "Syncronicity" by the Police,it is in 7/8 ....weird ... written by the drummer Stewart Copeland Michael >> One thing for sure about this song. It has one of the most interesting timings of virtually any Joni song. Im a musician and I cant recall ever hearing one similar. Any body know what the time scale is?? marcel<< http://www.coolgold.com.au/~michaelb/index.html michaelb@coolgold.com.au Either we are alone in the universe ...........Or we're not............ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:17:29 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Plug Of The Week #8 Hi there, Thanks to well-known producer/engineer Stephen Barncard, I've just come across the most wonderful album : Crofton Orr - Crofton Orr ( Automatic Recording Co ) Crofton Orr is a singer/songwriter from Auckland, New Zealand. In early 1998 he released his self-titled debut album on his own record label Automatic Recording Co. He hates categorising his sound, but, if put on the spot, describes it as "a laidback, rocky, folky, funky, atmospheric, bluesy vibe and cites early 70's influences such as David Crosby and Traffic. Others have mentioned hearing touches of David Sylvian, The Blue Nile and Daniel Lanois. "I love vibey, late-night albums", Crofton adds, "so I guess there's a fair bit of that in there". But this is an album full of contrast; if most of the songs feel like late on a winter's night in the city, then the first single, "Way To Go", is a summer afternoon in the country, with it's bluesy stripped back groove and inescapable vocal hook. And later, there's the almost beatles-esque "All For Nothing", alongside the dark sensuality of "Prophecy". All of these contrasting emotions are tied together by the constant intimacy and honesty of Crofton's vocals. Track no 7 on the disc, "Perfect Weather", is sort of a tribute to mr. David Crosby and the California saga of the late 60's and early 70's : "In a boat out on the water Afternoon just made to order We had Crosby on the radio Nothing to do, nowhere to go Distant blue, we all could feel it And some truth was all we needed Every reason seemed so simple then Our ignorance was innocence" The track could be a 90's version of something culled from Crosby's 70's masterpiece "If I Could Only Remeber My Name". The track just cries out for the Crosby/Nash harmonies! Crofton already has 6 songs completed for his next album, which, if all goes well, will be produced by Stephen Barncard. The new song "Gabriel's Garden" is a magnificent song that surely deserves much more wider attention! If you feel like checking out this GREAT album, copies are available from : Automatic Recording Co. 2A 24 Airedale Street Auckland 1 New Zealand or by email from : croftonorr@hotmail.com This album should be HUGE! Take care, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:35:31 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: NRH/FTR/DED > In a message dated 2/28/99 5:42:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, > paul@tyrer23.freeserve.co.uk writes: > > << I think of Electricity, which I find over-wrought. I > notice that Colin has placed FTR in #11 on his recent Joni chart so wonder > whether this less-than-100%-approval for FTR is a Brit-thing. What do other > people think about FTR? >> > I find it impossible to choose an all time best/favorite Joni album, but there are a few that would tie for number one, and FTR is one of them. The Blue/FTR/C&S sequence of albums is unsurpassed. Also, I agree with Terry, Electricity is among my all time faves. And the wonderful piano playing on FTR is, I think, the pinnacle of her keyboard work. Dancable tune: I would have to vote for "Raised on Robbery" RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:38:49 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: NP: Painting With Words & Music If I remember correctly, the line 'nothing can be done' is sung after 'comes love.' Mark NP-LZ-Going To California At 4:20 PM -0800 2/28/99, simon@icu.com wrote: > Yea OK, Joni does have a song called 'Nothing Can Be Done' but > this ain't it. in fact it wasn't performed on *either* night > last may in Burbank. to the best of my knowledge it's never been > performed live. so where DO they come up with this sh*it? ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:41:00 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Jimmy & Joni Hey everyone- My brother told me yesterday that Jimmy Page had a chance to meet Joni but threw up from nervousness. Mark NP-Page/Plant-No Quarter-Battle of Evermore ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:04:16 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: (NJC) Loudest concerts Nanci Griffith, a country singer? Wash your mouth out! She has brains! She is folk! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:07:48 -0500 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: I Love To Dance Phyliss jiving and gyrating wrote: >I want to dance when I hear... >Good Friends Oooh, me too, Phyliss! And I always remember Joni's brief stint on MTV when that song came out on video, where she is dancing in what appears to be a kitchen, eating a piece of pie and using the fork as a baton as she mouths the words "No blame for what we can and cannot feel" Marsha, hungry for a piece of pie...with that ice cream melting... oh, my, my....;-D ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:14:21 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Mark Isham (njc) Patrick wrote: >it's funny, his contributions to 'sons of champlin' in 70s was more as a >synth arranger than as a trumpeter, and his great new age album 'vapour >drawings' is much more about electronic texture than trumpet virtuosity. > i'm thrilled that he's still exploring technology. >kakki, your np lines have reported a lot of 'sons' listening recently. is >it new stuff or older? is isham involved? It's great you should mention Isham's involvement with the Sons. Thanks to the wonders of Ebay and my local second hand record store, I've now acquired almost all the Sons albums that I searched in vain for in the 70s, along with the CD release of their first album "Loosen Up Naturally" and a CD of their live show in Northern California while back that I recall that Julius attended. Just learned that there is also a new CD of their truly first "Fat City" album on Trident label that was never released - it can be ordered by calling (510) 486-1880. Talk about freaking danceable music - woohoo! The first vinyl I bought, simply titled "The Sons of Champlin" includes the composition by Isham "Marp Interlude" and amazingly it sounds very similar to the music I listened to last night, even though it was recorded in 1975! While Mark played some incredible live trumpet solos last night, I was just a little disappointed that he would then sample and loop them on playback. Electronic synthesis was what was being showcased last night more than his virtuosity on the trumpet. And the funny thing is, while he was playing the trumpet live, I fantasized a little what it would be like to see him playing now with Bill Champlin, who I am just gaga over on many levels. And now that I have almost filled by Sons collection, I am moving my obsession on to collecting his solo albums! Kakki NP: S of C - Big Boss Man ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:40:05 From: Lisa Kowalski Subject: Jonis Most Dancable Song JRMCol@aol.com wrote: I say its "Coyote" by a nose,then "In France They Kiss On Mainstreet" Anyone differ? For me it would have to be "Shiny Toys" first followd by "You Dream Flat Tires", "Underneath The Streetlight","You're So Square" , "Wild Things Run Fast" and "Solid Love"(All from WTRF which I feel is a very dancable CD) Lisa N.P. "Solid Love" Hot Dog Darlin!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:37:50 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: I Love To Dance I'm thinking this could make a great tape, although I guess it depends on how you dance. So far we have: Coyote In France They Kiss On Main Street Woman of Heart and Mind : ) Electricity : ) Raised on Robbery Lead Balloon Good Friends Fiction How about these: Night In The City Talk To Me ("It still gets my feet up to dance") (You're So Square) Baby, I Don't Care Shiny Toys Or the obvious: Dancin' Clown Lori San Antonio NP: Boozer the puppy snoring after a long walk ... ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #100 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. 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