From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #95 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, February 25 1999 Volume 04 : Number 095 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC: Concert experiences [Strummed@aol.com] Re: (NJC) The Lizard King Jim [Strummed@aol.com] Re: first 45/best concert/worst concert/Joni Memories [mjc] [Bob.Muller@f] Edith & The Kingpin [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Morning Morgantown [simon@icu.com] Madonna honors Joni in Grammy press room [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: SNL (NJC) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Edith & The Kingpin [Strummed@aol.com] Re: The Screaming Orphans [Bounced Message ] Re: Edith & The Kingpin [Strummed@aol.com] Loudest/Worst/Best Joni [Medric Faulkner ] More backstage Grammy talk re: Joni [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: first 45/best concert/worst concert/Joni Memories [mjc] [Randy Remote] Grammy Night (NJC) [MHart16164@aol.com] Re: Grammy Night (NJC) ["Davina Greenstein" ] Re: "The Battle of Evermore" (SJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] RE: Grammy Night (NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Grammy Night (NJC) ["Kakki" ] RE: Grammy Night (NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Grammy Night (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Mark Isham at the Viper Room (J-related) ["Kakki" ] Detroit, Detroit, gotta helluva hockey team...(njc) [michael paz ] Re: andback-NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: (NJC) The Lizard King Jim [Ginamu@aol.com] RE: Grammy Night (NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] JONI IN AUSTRALIA ["Sarah Whitaker (ADC Administration)" ] Re: "The Battle of Evermore" (SJC) [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Detroit, Detroit, gotta helluva hockey team...(njc) [TerryM2442@aol.c] Tears of Stone and October Sky [Ashara@aol.com] Re: Night Ride Home- (jc) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: "The Battle of Evermore" (SJC) [Mark-n-Travis ] Re: Night Ride Home- (jc) [DKasc13293@aol.com] Re: Night Ride Home- (jc) [Mark-n-Travis ] Re: Night Ride Home- (jc) [Lisa Durfee ] Re: Night Ride Home- (jc) [catman ] Re: Morning Morgantown [Mark-n-Travis ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:44:36 EST From: Strummed@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Concert experiences cant wait to talk to robert. thin white duke that was a good 1. you know 1 of these days some1s going to write back and say " hey i was at that concert to" just hasn't happened yet. a lot like being out at sea, you witness much natural phenomenon. i'm pathetic but debt free. yoskis, CHRI$. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:07:02 EST From: Strummed@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) The Lizard King Jim anytime kakki, but i'm not the morrison connection only have some vital info i happenned to have picked up along the way because i noticed that theres a lot of people out there who have strong feelings and connect with him so i'm happy to forward them to and who what i know. the person you would want to contact is leo at the "record gallery" here in alameda. very connected dude to the music groove and old freind of jims and also an ex-business partner to one of jimis boyhood steaming freinds but who has recently succomed to cancer sad to say but what a character. his name was fudd a most excellent dude. give Leo a call at the "record gallery" @ 510-523-2330 1510 webster street. 94501. tellem chri$, the KINGS X dude sent you, he'll know. he does a cable access show too in the music molds and has quite the collection of musical stash (some of which i've contributed to) now that i think of it I should check out a little closer myself. warning though he may be busy and he might have to get back to you but that's ok because i know he needs the do-re-me. yours musically, CHRI$. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:19:53 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: first 45/best concert/worst concert/Joni Memories [mjc] Brian introduces himself, closing with: <> Brian Moss Brian, no need to be sorry, thanks for de-lurking...what a great post! Welcome! Do you know Pat Henry from the Port Huron days? Bob NP (Now Playing): Earl Bostic, "Arrivaderci Roma" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:55:27 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Edith & The Kingpin chri$ a$k$: <> ****Warning: what you are about to read is a joke (and a pretty lame one at that**** "Edith & The Kingpin: Joni bows to King Lear" An initial hearing of this song conjures up images of seventies excess and drug use, but once again Joni, ever the queen of duality, writes one thing on the surface and challenges us to dig below to find a truer meaning. "Edith & The Kingpin" is certainly no exception. The song is a cleverly disguised salute to Norman Lear and his creation "All in the Family". Edith, is of course, Edith Bunker, & the Kingpin is none other than the Willy-Loman-like Archie, the little man who would be kingpin. The irony begins with the desciption on Archie as a "Big man, small town" when just the opposite is true. In reality, he has to deal with the "sophomore jive" that is foisted on him by Mike Stivic, the "Meathead" and his equally sophomoric wife, Archie's daughter Gloria, G-L-O-R-I-A, which coincidentally was recorded by many bands that sounded like typewriters. But I digress. Edith puts her "Kingpin" on the pedestal he doesn't deserve. When he's flushing his ever-present and overly noisy toilet, she imagines that "A plane in the rain is humming, the wires in the wall are humming", but refuses to believe the baser truth about the man she adores. When he goes to Kelsey's bar to spend time with his friends, she has "Bars in her head" which transform into bars of a song, "some mysterious song", yes, it's the song "Those Were The Days" which she thinks of often to remind herself how she loves and stands by her kingpin. Indeed, after their voices unite in this fleeting moment of bliss, "His eyes hold Edith", they each have "charm to sway", they are "staring eye to eye, they dare not look away". She's so "romantic and snowblind" to the reality, even when he repeatedly tells her to "STIFLE!!" So we close with Archie sitting in his favorite chair, comfortable like a cat, "the man with the diamond ring is purring" while Edith brings him a beer, after all she sees his empty hand and instinctively knows "What does that hand desire, that he grips it so tight"... Chri$, this one is so obvious I can't believe you had to ask!! ;~D Bob NP: The Pretenders "My City Was Gone" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:06:56 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Morning Morgantown Tad Davis writes ... >_________________________________________________________________________ >Long time lurker, first time poster. Can anyone tell me or speculate as >to which Morgantown, Morning Morgantown refers? I had read on someone's >web page once that she had attended WVU (West Virginia University in >Morgantown, W.V.) for a semester, but the guy was from Morgantown so I >suspect it is a local urban legend. However, I also heard from a early >70's musician from the area that he had heard that another Morgantown >musician had originally written the song (the liner notes have the lyrics >1967 Siquomb Publishing, the same as the rest of the songs that Joni >wrote). Any help would be appreciated. > >Thanks - tad >_________________________________________________________________________ Tad, there's NO truth to the notion that anyone but Joni Mitchell ever wrote any of *her* songs (except as credited). she never attended West Virginia University either. after high school, aged 19, Joni did attend the Alberta College of Art in Calgary, Alberta. she only lasted a year though during which she was also singing at 'The Depression' a local coffeehouse. of course there were earlier performances the previous year at another coffeehouse in Saskatoon called The Louis Riel when she was still accompanying herself on ukelele. the few dollars earned at The Louis Riel were used to purchase her first guitar, a Pete Seeger do-it-yourself instruction manual & record as well as a new baritone ukelele. after leaving college Joni headed east for the first of her appearances at the annual Mariposa Folk Festival. as for Morgantown? i have no specific information and no knowledge of any gig ever played in W.Virginia. Joni did play a regular series of clubs and coffeehouses up and down the east coast. i suspect she probably just heard the name and decided to use it in her song. it's got a nice ring to it. she may have even made it up and found out about 'real' Morgantowns later. Small Point: although "Morning Morgantown" and "Conversation" are (c) 1967, "Circle Game" is (c) 1966 - one of her earliest. all the other songs are (c) 1968 + '69. as one would expect, this song has come up for discussion before ... From the JMDL Archives: _______________________ From: simon@icu.com Subject: Morning Morgantown Date: Sun. July 5, 1998 Susan McNamara wrote ... > > >Hi Mary: > >Yes, you paraphrased me right. I always saw this song as a day out with >a favorite child, and never thought of the poignancy of it until I heard >that Joni had given a child up for adoption. I can just see her sitting >under an awning across from a mom and daughter sipping lemonade and ... >longing! Joni's most contagious emotion. > >> Those of you who've been on the list for a while may remember >> an interesting idea that Sue McNamara suggested some time ago. >> She said -- correct me if I'm mis-paraphrasing, Sue - that >> "Morgan Morgantown" called to mind for her what life may have been >> like for Joni after relinquishing Kelly/Kilauren for adoption. >> >> Sue McNamara >> >> Sue, i think you're on to something. especially the last two stanzas: MORNING MORGANTOWN (c) 1967 When morning comes to Morgantown The merchants roll their awnings down The milk trucks make their morning rounds In morning, Morgantown We'll rise up early, with the sun To ride the bus while everyone is yawning And the day is young In morning, Morgantown Morning Morgantown Buy your dreams a dollar down Morning any town you name Morning's just the same We'll find a table in the shade And sip our tea and lemonade And watch the morning on parade In morning, Morgantown Ladies in their rainbow fashions Colored stop and go lights flashing We'll wink at total strangers passing in Morning, Morgantown Morning Morgantown Buy your dreams a dollar down Morning any town you name Morning's just the same I'd like to buy you everything A wooden bird with painted wings A window full of colored rings In morning, Morgantown But the only thing I have to give To make you smile, to win you with Are all the mornings still to live In Morning, Morgantown. "Morning Morgantown" was released in April 1970 on "Ladies Of The Canyon" however, it was performed 'Live' as early as March '67. ie: 6-months before the first 'known' performance of "Little Green", in October 1967. on June 26, Terry asked (re: Little Green) ... >________________________________________________________________________ >I've also wondered when she wrote that song. Is it possible that it was >>written shortly after the birth/adoption but was *recorded* much later? >Does anyone know how long some of her songs "sit" before she decides to >record? > >Terry, adoptive mother >________________________________________________________________________ Terry, "Little Green" (c) 1967, did not appear on an album until the June 1971 release of "BLUE". Kilauren was born in february 1965 for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- * Remember, there's a difference between kneeling down and bending over -- FZ. ___________________________________________________________________________ PS: there are only 2-or-3 songs that predate "The Circle Game", one of the few songs in standard tuning. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:21:09 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Madonna honors Joni in Grammy press room After her fine if slightly unenergetic performance and her win for best pop album, Madonna had this to say in the press room: "I followed Deborah Harry [of Blondie], Chrissie Hynde [of the Pretenders] and Joni Mitchell," Madonna said, "and I hope that many more follow me as I followed them." - --Michael NP: Wilco, _Being There_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:16:18 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: (NJC) coffeehouses, SDS, Ferlinghetti Kakki wrote: >Sorry Pat, I misunderstood your post back in December... I see now that you meant this was a different meeting... All the activity in the Cellar was overlapping for me a little!> hi kakki, gee, sure glad ya stayed on the subject! LoL!!! glad we got that cleared up. ...mmm, with all my long-winded posts I can understand how things could get a bit overlapped... and yes, since the Cellar went through three incarnations by the time I hooked up with it, the place overlapped all by itself! *L* >And speaking of coffeehouses and the beat poets, I just learned through the LACMA magazine that Lawrence Ferlinghetti will be doing a reading there on his 80th birthday on March 17th. It is titled "Painting Poems."> and, speaking of Ferlinghetti and best friends, (*G*) I think it was my old bud, brian moss, manager of the Cellar and the guy who got me involved in it, (who, btw, just joined the list and is lurking about out there somewhere... *hi bri!*) who first introduced me to ol' lawrence in '66... >I would love to attend but St. Patrick's Day is a holy day of obligation in my family ;-) personally I would feel that my 'obligation' to st. paddy would be to be there for that reading, but then, that's me... *S* pat NP: The Banquet http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:48:14 From: Kate Subject: hearing Joni on CBC (NnewJC) Gerald: >I heard two Joni songs back to back on CBC Radio 1's... I get >such a thrill out of hearing Joni's music on the radio (and not the standard >BYT and BSN). CBC plays a fair amount of Joni, compared to commercial radio stations. But CBC has much higher standards, obviously, and that is evident to anyone who has listened to CBC's entire programming. Here in Alberta we have a fantastic radio station you can get on realaudio at http://www.ckua.org They have the most incredible record library of stuff I do not hear anywhere else-- some of CBC's music programmes are very similar. May I recommend Cathy Ennis's afternoon show between 1 and 3? Dynamite. Brian Moss: > Sorry, got carried away.....sign of aging not at all Brian; this is the kind of recollection I love to read >Lance A. Michel: >- -There are as many shades to reality > as there are windows unto the soul- hey! you may well be remembered for this one! Evian: Going to Toontown, you say--I'm jealous. I love that city. North Kate ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:11:37 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: SNL (NJC) Bob, on the "memorable" SNL live performances ... > A couple exceptions: > > Elvis Costello stopping his band a couple of bars into their scheduled > song to play the acidic "Radio Radio" > > Fear, who played about 3 songs in row before the station just cut to a > commercial. I remember this was on Halloween night with Donald > Pleasance as the host. Not that I was a huge fan of Fear, but I did > enjoy the "out-of-control" chaos that was present. > > Rickie Lee Jones, who was supposed to play "Chuck E" and "Danny's All > Star Joint", deviated from the latter song much to Lorne Micheals' > chagrin to play "Coolsville" which I recall was really well-performed > emotionally. > And let's not forget Sinead O'Connor ripping up a photo of the Pope ... musically the most riveting thing that's ever happened on that show. Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:38:58 EST From: Strummed@aol.com Subject: Re: Edith & The Kingpin the only thing that is obviuos is i havent dug down as deep as you have. not sure if i beleive it either but i'll give the benefit of the doubt and thank you for the excellent ride. in my best ed mcmahon voice i confess" i did not know that" or better yet phil hartman imitating ed macmahon, classic in its own vain with david (garvey?) as carsnieo. with the shere power of the tune and the content of the lyrics hell, i pictured it as an all joni night of lovemaking. edith bunker ? i'd be hittnig the beer and couch to. archiesdman. lot of truth to your version and vision no doubt. i got to ask was this from an interview you read from joni about the tune? at the risk of sounding like a dolt i'll let this go for now. there is 1 point in the song where the timber in jonis voice hits and holds for a measure that i very rarely hear but when you do it leaves you stock motionless and begging for more. (relating to the shadows and light l.p.) been so long since i heard it i can't pinpoint the exact phrase for you all, mea culpa, its just b4 the last verse though. i will say this much when the song plays, it transports me rite there to whats going on with them. more than just looking through a keyhole to. and sometimes think. it coulda been me. best yet, maybe she was lookig through my keyhole. wouldn't be the 1st time. thanx again bob, keep the cards and letter coming, yours musically, CHRI$. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:34:40 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: The Screaming Orphans From: secret@tinet.ie Subject: Re: The Screaming Orphans >....The Screaming Orphans! Anyone know anything about them? The group is four sisters from Donegal. They acted as Sinead O'Connor's backing group for a while. They have a few decent songs, and I wouldn't be suprised if they make a good record some day. Philip NP Jurassic 5 - Concrete school yard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:46:21 EST From: Strummed@aol.com Subject: Re: Edith & The Kingpin balls, i hate when that happens. you got me bob. good job to. just reread your header. i can say hook line and singer. now i'm going to go out in the alley and pick a dogend with my good freind aqualung. you know he always has the best port and it's for the benefit of mr. kite so let me part in good company. enjoyed the laugh and well done again. garson ? seen the keys to the studebaker ? yours musically, CHRI$ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:56:22 -0800 (PST) From: Medric Faulkner Subject: Loudest/Worst/Best Joni Loudest: The Artist-Jackson,MS-1997 Worst: Ohio Players-Memphis-1977 Best: Joni Mitchell-NO Jazzfest-1995 Joni was debuting the VG-8 and she came out to thunderous applause with probably 50 press persons between the crowd and the stage. She had been bopping along to Little Feat in the wings for an hour or so and waving to the loyal fans who had spotted her. Just before her set the crowd became really animated, shoved forward and squished those of us who had stood broiling for hours in the NO sun. She started into "Sex Kills" and no sound came from the guitar. She was the epitome of calm and stood back for the technicians to work on the instrument explaining matter of factly that there were some bugs in her new guitar. I forget the set list but I do remember that "Song for Sharon" and "Refuge of the Roads" were really nice. There was a really funny comment about the length and wordiness of "Song for Sharon" that I can't quite remember. Joni stepped into the brains of the instrument at one point and the technicians had to jump start it again. Joni complained to someone offstage of hearing a strange "brrrrr" during "Hejira" that she shrugged off after questioning the engineer. A set that was supposed to last an hour turned into 1 1/2 hours of pure delight. The promoters literally had to force her from the stage. The crown insisted on a socond encore which Joni wanted but the organizers squelched it. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:04:16 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: More backstage Grammy talk re: Joni It's small but here it is. Herbie Hancock: On where he's going with his music, he said, "I'm not interested in making a standard, conventional jazz record anymore... To work with Joni Mitchell on two tunes, and Stevie Wonder playing harmonica on one of those two tunes... for my album, I couldn't be happier." - --Michael NP: The Roots, _Things Fall Apart_ (with their duet w/ Erykah Badu "You Got Me" my early contender for single of 1999) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:11:11 EST From: Strummed@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) The Lizard King Jim yes indeedee scriti politi. thanx for asking marcel. let me have don pardo get you some nice parting gifts while we're at it. excuse me for jumping into the jmdl feet 1st. i'm sure i was raised wrong and someone along the line asked me to introduce myself. well folks i'm here and not much for formalities. as i tell my wife, i'm not strange just unconventional and abstract. really she's rite but i like to keep it live. but I would rather be known for my contributions. if i can call them that, so far no death threats happy to report. J/K knock on norwegian wood. i am a bass player, maybe thats my problem. but i do practice 12 string guitar quite a bit. note this though. i have found jonis music the best there is to practice along with when it comes to 12 string playing/ praxing. i do enjoy myself in your company and am very impressed at the the upbeatness of the affair. justvwish i had more time to devote to this forum. count me in when you can though. kind of like watching dobey gillis you know? scuse while i scratch. yours musically for you dinning and dancing pleasure. CHRI$. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:21:42 PST From: "Chad Burkhart" Subject: Re: Night Ride Home, a confession I have to admit that Night Ride Home is a great album!! Aside from one or two tracks on the album, I think that it is a wonderful listen. I have to say that I have removed the track "Rays Dad's Cadillac from the play list on my computer (much like I have done with "Lead Balloon" on TTT) but there are some really great tracks on Night Ride...to name a few, the title track (I agree with the crickets as a great back up...just like I love the drums in the song 'Jungle Line" from THOSL), "Passion Play," "Cherokee Louise," and on and on. I came across the album in a used record store as well...I had a lot of trouble tracking down some of Joni's records, they weren't in the mainstream stores like HMV and Sam the Record Man, Music world etc. Mingus, Joni Mitchell, THOSL, etc. were especially hard to find. It's kind of funny that you listen to it on the way to work instead of the Night Ride Home :) but I guess you listen to it on both rides. Cheers, Chad ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:28:55 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: "The Battle of Evermore" (NJC) Bob M. wrote: > > NP: Led Zep, "The Battle of Evermore" (Is there a story behind how > they got Sandy Denny on this record?) Not really. I think Led Zep were fans of earlier work, and so, when they wrote this song that seemed to call for a second voice, Robert Plant had the idea of asking her to do the guest vocal. That's about it. Sandy later said of working with Led Zep that she was driven hoarse trying to keep up with Plant. I've always thought this claim may have been modesty on her part, though. ;) - --David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:28:10 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: first 45/best concert/worst concert/Joni Memories [mjc] "Brian S. Moss" wrote: > I've been lurking here for about a week, and found your discourses very > interesting. Several threads have almost forced me to post...so here's a > few: > My very first contact with Joni was in the early 60's at a small > coffeehouse in Port Huron MI. > In my several trips to LA BODEGA, nothing > impressed me as much as the singer with the long blond hair and 'bell'tone > voice who played the guitar in a very strange way. > I had the privilege to hear her sing many times over the next decade, but > always in a coffeehouse setting. Since then I haven't heard her perform in > person. > > Brian Moss Brian, you lucky dog! Too bad you can't bottle those memories and sell them, I would order a case. Welcome to the list, thanks for a great debut. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:41:57 EST From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Grammy Night (NJC) I have been so busy the last couple of weeks and haven't had time to read the posts, but I need a vent. What exactly does anyone think about the "winners" of last nights grammy awards--particularly the females? How exactly does someone like Shania Twain win a Grammy? I thought Tim Curry was going to come out during her number and break out into "Sweet Tranvestite" at any moment. I was practically screaming "asshole" and "dammit Janet". The only one I thought was remotely deserving was Alanis. And I'm outraged that Lucinda Williams didn't take a thing home. I think I'm boycotting next year. It was too frustrating. I was just wondering if anyone else feels like I do... Michele In New Orleans NP: the Mavericks--Fool #1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:56:33 -0800 From: "Davina Greenstein" Subject: Re: Grammy Night (NJC) Michele wrote: And I'm outraged that Lucinda Williams didn't take a thing home. >I think I'm boycotting next year. Lucinda Williams did win last night...she picked up a Grammy for Best Contemporary Folk Album Davina - -----Original Message----- From: MHart16164@aol.com To: joni@smoe.org Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 11:56 AM Subject: Grammy Night (NJC) >I have been so busy the last couple of weeks and haven't had time to read the >posts, but I need a vent. > >What exactly does anyone think about the "winners" of last nights grammy >awards--particularly the females? How exactly does someone like Shania Twain >win a Grammy? I thought Tim Curry was going to come out during her number and >break out into "Sweet Tranvestite" at any moment. I was practically screaming >"asshole" and "dammit Janet". The only one I thought was remotely deserving >was Alanis. And I'm outraged that Lucinda Williams didn't take a thing home. >I think I'm boycotting next year. It was too frustrating. I was just >wondering if anyone else feels like I do... > >Michele >In New Orleans > >NP: the Mavericks--Fool #1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:07:50 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: "The Battle of Evermore" (SJC) Bob M. wrote: > > NP: Led Zep, "The Battle of Evermore" (Is there a story behind how > they got Sandy Denny on this record?) And David responds: <> Thanks, David, and now that I'm thinking about it, since he was such a Joni fan, maybe he should have asked her! He was probably too intimidated, but as much as Denny's voice sounds fine, Joni could really do that part justice too!! Bob NP: Stevie Wonder, "Girl Blue" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:17:00 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: Grammy Night (NJC) Michele wrote: <<>> I think Madonna's wins--for Pop Album, Dance Recording, and Short-form Video--were entirely appropriate. And Lauryn Hill's triumph well-deserved, too. It's still amazing to me that RS, Spin and the Grammies all agree on the best album of the year, with the Pazz-n-Jop poll calling it a narrow second. Has that ever happened before? Furthermore, whether Lauryn Hill's record was actually the best of the year may be difficult to determine with pinpoint accuracy, but it certainly was the quality recording with the most impact, both commercially and as representative of changes taking place in the world of popular music. 25 years down the line when someone sees _Miseducation_ listed in some Grammy almanac, they'll have a much better idea of music in 1998 than with some of the other choices Grammy has made over the years. Even if you do think Lucinda's (for example) album is better, it just isn't a very representative record of 1998. Lauryn's is. The mistakes? "My Heart Will Go On" for Record of the Year surely--Madonna's "Ray of Light" smokes it and Monica and Brandy's "The Boy Is Mine" is far less nauseating, as are about 20,000 records from last year. And Will Smith for solo rap performance over Lauryn, Wyclef Jean, Busta Rhymes and Jay-Z? Please... <<>> She did win--for Contemporary Folk Album. The Grammies have a long, long way to go, but they're getting better for sure. - --Michael NP: Hank Williams, _Health and Happiness Shows_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:19:58 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Grammy Night (NJC) Michele wrote: >What exactly does anyone think about the "winners" of last nights grammy >awards--particularly the females? How exactly does someone like Shania Twain >win a Grammy? I was happy that the awards were spread out pretty well among our gang of favorites - Lauryn, Lucinda, Madonna, Stevie, Sheryl, The Chieftains, Clapton and Alanis. Some of those awards were not televised, but announced via trailer during the show. The overall production was truly dismal, though, and Rosie and Shania are really starting to get on my last nerve. I thought there were some standout musical performances, especially Eric and B.B. King, Lauryn, the tribute to Duke Ellington, and even Celine and Andrea, and Aerosmith. Haven't read it yet but heard that Robert Hilburn (music critic) and Howard Rosenberg (T.V. critic) totally skewered Rosie and the producers in this morning's L.A. Times. Thought I spotted Larry Klein in the background at the Sony party shown on the news last night. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:51:41 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: Grammy Night (NJC) Kakki wrote: <<>> Sorry for the "me too," but, well, "me too." Rosie is so dull. Some great performances--Lauryn's obviously stands out, as does Kirk Franklin's, especially Mary J. Blige's addition--but nothing came close to the transcendance of Aretha's "Nessun Dorma" last year--including Pavarotti's "Nessun Dorma." - --Michael NP: Lauryn Hil, _Miseducation..._ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:00:42 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Grammy Night (NJC) Michelle vents: <> I try not to take all the awards stuff too seriously; like Colin says, my opinions are valid for me and aren't affected by who wins what. The Grammys are an industry thing, and when rap/hip-hop is well over 50% of the biz, proper attention needs to be paid. And "Miseducation" is a good record, I agree with Michael that it's a good rep for where the music is/was in '98. And I also think Sheryl Crow succeeds on all counts as well. Ultimately, it's about sales and *not* art... <> (Not exactly in this order) 1. Wonder Bra 2. lots of navel shots 3. Sell a zillion records 4. Marry a major record producer (Mutt Lange, in her case) Michelle, you follow these simple rules, and we'll see you on the Grammy stage in 2000! :~) Bob NP: Boxing Gandhis, "1st" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:03:07 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Mark Isham at the Viper Room (J-related) Mark Isham and his Electronic Project are performing at Johnny Depp's newly-remodeled Viper Room this Saturday, Feb. 27th. Tickets are $15.00 and first come, first served at the door starting at 9:00 p.m. I've missed his last two appearances here recently and plan to go Saturday. The address is 8852 Sunset Boulevard, Hollywood. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:23:36 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Detroit, Detroit, gotta helluva hockey team...(njc) Pat wrote: "being from detroit, I was more involved >with John Sinclair's white panthers and, as I stated to kakki, never had contact with sds in port >huron, but mentioned them as the one thing that might have caused people to hear of the town >where the Cellar was." Hi Pat- I missed the fact that you are from Detroit, so at the risk of breaking the rules I have to say "meeeee tooo". I left there in 1965 to move to Honduras with my family. New Orleans climate is so much nicer than Detroit, so I have settled here for the time being. John Sinclair is also living in New Orleans now and continues to be very outspoken on our local radio airwaves WWOZ and doing his spoken word thing with insane music background. We hung out together on Lundi Gras at the Zulu party on the river. His ex-wife Leni (famous photographer who shot alt of the Mc5's stuff) was also living here for a good while, but I heard from my brother that she has regressed back to Detroit (no offence Terry or any other Michiganders). I was so young back in the sixties that I don't remember alot of details about things, but I do recall a Motown Revue at the Fox. Do you have any recall on those events? Peace, Michael NP-The infernal office radio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:25:20 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: andback Yes got your virus warning. Actually we have been sent that virus a couple times through the Pompost but thankfully did not open it. Another poster suggested NEVER opening an exe. file unless you really trust the person it's coming from. I have a little 'real' icon in lower right, too, but it does sound like somethin ain't right, when you have to reboot, the burps, etc. Good luck. Did you try right clicking the big icon on the desktop, and then open? You were right about the Ellington tribute, that was totally hip. Later Alligator PS thanks for the card, LOL RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:41:42 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: andback-NJC Sorry about that last post, it was intended for someone else.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:38:43 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) The Lizard King Jim Hi, Chri$, I love your posts! They're great fun and original and no pretension. Glad you're here. Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:22:47 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: Grammy Night (NJC) Bob M. wrote: <<>> It's closer to about 26%, actually. <<< Ultimately, it's about sales and *not* art...>>> I kind of like the idea of critic's polls (P-n-J foremost among them) memorializing the artistic successes and the Grammies focusing more on zeitgeist, if you will. True, for the Grammies "zeitgeist" usually translates into "sales." But it's worth noting that the year's biggest seller, which dwarfed its nearest competition almost 2-to-1, wasn't even nominated for album of the year: the _Titanic_ soundtrack. Of course, they still found a way to honor it. Music, more than an other art form (except maybe TV, if you can count that as art anymore), infiltrates and records our lives, individually and as groups. It becomes not just an artist's statement, but a cultural signifier. The critics' polls should sort out the arts stuff, and the Grammies should sort out the culture stuff. And that means that by definition they should look to things with at least healthy sales, but that hopefully represent a development for the art form as well. Maybe that will mean that the Lucindas get overlooked, but when a _Miseducation_ or a _Thriller_ or a _Sgt. Pepper's_ comes along, it should be honored not just as art, but as phenomenon. Bottom line: the Grammies are incapable of acknowledging artistic triumph, but hopefully they don't have to sink to irrelevant commercialism either. This year, IMO, they walked that line. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:12:26 +1100 From: "Sarah Whitaker (ADC Administration)" Subject: JONI IN AUSTRALIA Hi, I was just wondering if anyone could tell me if Joni Mitchell had ever toured/vised Australia or how I could find out if she was ever going to perform down here. As a (self-titled) budding lyrics writer, Joni has had a huge impact on my writing. I only discovered her about five years ago as she is by no mean's mainstream in Australia (especially in the under 25's set!). I would like to learn of who Joni has been influenced by, what music she is listening to today and what artists have done covers of her music as well as how I can get my hands on prints of her paintings. Please excuse my ignorance on the subject but that's why I'm here, to learn and to be pointed in the right direction and you never know, perhaps you will learn something from me too : ) 0000,0000,ffff ~ Work like you don't need the money Love like you've never been hurt Dance like nobody's watching ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:59:57 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: "The Battle of Evermore" (SJC) On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: > Thanks, David, and now that I'm thinking about it, since he was such a > Joni fan, maybe he should have asked her! He was probably too > intimidated, but as much as Denny's voice sounds fine, Joni could > really do that part justice too!! No way! Sorry, my mind boggles at the thought of Joni as the mythic Queen of Light, in her confessional Blue/FTR days no less. I think "The Battle of Evermore" is, like much of Led Zep's folkier music, a very *British* song (albeit to my American ears), almost quintessentially so -- the angels of Avalon, the magic runes, etc. Joni ("California, I'm coming home!") would just *not* be right for this song. Hey! And what do you mean, Denny's voice sounds "fine"?!??!?? That's damning with faint praise, that is! ;) - --David P.S. I couldn't stand the remade version of this song on "No Quarter." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:21:28 -0500 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: Night Ride Home- (jc) hey marcel, i'm right with you on this; night ride home is absolutely one of her best, both the song and the album. it's a great road album too, incredibly fun to sing along with. i was born in marin and lived in northern california until i was 27, but i've been in nyc since then and haven't owned a car in more than a decade. in april last year, when julie z webb hosted the first jonifest, i rented a car and drove the 7 hours to pittsburgh, and the most important tape was night ride home backed with hejira. i'd love to hear how night ride home hit the longest-term joni freaks, the one's who've bought every album on release day. was it a relief after the '80s albums? was it still overproduced? had her voice deteriorated too much? it came into my life right when it was released and was certainly a favorite, but i wasn't necessarily grabbing every joni at the time. and, production-head me, i'd loved (and still do) chalkmark. since then, i've absolutely immersed myself in every single joni album, as well as other obsessive acts of worship, and nrh the album still is one of her three finest contributions to music. patrick jfp - the blue nile - a walk across the rooftops np - rickie lee - coming back to me ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:34:38 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: "The Battle of Evermore" (SJC) > No way! Sorry, my mind boggles at the thought of Joni as the > mythic Queen of Light, in her confessional Blue/FTR days no less. I think > "The Battle of Evermore" is, like much of Led Zep's folkier music, a very > *British* song (albeit to my American ears), almost quintessentially so -- > the angels of Avalon, the magic runes, etc. Joni ("California, I'm coming > home!") would just *not* be right for this song. I think at the time LZ was writing this song, they wanted a Celtic sounding voice that only Sandy could do. I agree that Joni's voice wouldn't work. > > P.S. I couldn't stand the remade version of this song on "No Quarter." But wasn't Jimmy's concoction of a mandolin, a 12 string and a 6 string amazing in the MTV special??? :) Mark NP-DMB-Granny ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:25:39 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Detroit, Detroit, gotta helluva hockey team...(njc) In a message dated 2/25/99 4:26:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << but I heard from my brother that she has regressed back to Detroit (no offence Terry or any other Michiganders). >> No offense taken, Michael. If I didn't have ties here, I'd be outta here too! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:56:45 EST From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Tears of Stone and October Sky Well, I really have to hand it to all of you. If I hadn't joined this list ages ago, I never would have known about Herbie Hancock's Gershwin album, Kyle Eastwood's wonderful CD, never would have flown to New York to see Joni again after over 20 years, never would have had the New England Labor Day Jonifest in my backyard, and never would have bought The Chieftain's newest album, Tears of Stone this afternoon. What a gem!!! One song is better than the next, and Joni's version of Magdalene Laundries is certainly one of the highlights. The harp, pipes and flutes throughout the song lends itself so beautifully to the piece, and brings the sadness even closer to the surface. Thank you, all of you, for continuing to enrich my life. On another note, the kids had a snow day today, and being die-hard New Englanders, we hopped into the car, drove through the blizzard, and saw the movie October Sky. What a great flick!!!! It was a real "feel good" movie, done by the same people that did Field of Dreams. I always stay to the end of the credits, mostly because I am usually crying by the end of any movie, and need the time to gather myself together, and wipe my tear stained face. As I was blearily reading the credits, I noticed that Mark Isham did the music for the film, which was wonderful. Again, if it wasn't for this list, I probably never would have even known this name!! I highly recommend both Tears of Stone and October Sky!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:40:56 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Night Ride Home- (jc) In a message dated 2/25/99 7:23:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, trxschwa@bway.net writes: << and nrh the album still is one of her three finest contributions to music. >> It's so hard to pick favs, since for me at least, they seem to keep changing. I'm the sort who will just keep playing TI for a year straight, then on to Hejira for a year. But I have to say, NRH- especially the title track- has a special place in my heart. Terry, Joni fan for nearly 30 years ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:01:38 -0800 From: Mark-n-Travis Subject: Re: "The Battle of Evermore" (SJC) Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: > Thanks, David, and now that I'm thinking about it, since he was such a Joni fan, > maybe he should have asked her! He was probably too intimidated, but as much as > Denny's voice sounds fine, Joni could really do that part justice too!! Ann & Nancy Wilson (of Heart) did a great cover of this on an EP they put out several years ago under the name The Lovemongers - kinda like Heart Unplugged. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:04:36 -0800 From: Mark-n-Travis Subject: Re: Grammy Night (NJC) MHart16164@aol.com wrote: > I think I'm boycotting next year. It was too frustrating. I was just > wondering if anyone else feels like I do... The Grammys are such a mixed bag. It's kind of hard to take them seriously. Certainly Lucinda & Lauryn Hill were well-deserving of the awards they got. And then they turn around & give awards to people like Will Smith, Celene Dion & Madonna....oops! Did I say that? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:13:20 EST From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: Night Ride Home- (jc) In a message dated 2/25/99 7:25:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, trxschwa@bway.net writes: << i'd love to hear how night ride home hit the longest-term joni freaks, the one's who've bought every album on release day. was it a relief after the '80s albums? was it still overproduced? had her voice deteriorated too much? >> I remember commuting into NYC from New Jersey and passing the time reading a newspaper and seeing the ad for new releases. My adrenal gland pumping as I spotted NRH's cover. It caught me off guard. The entire album did, on every level. I am a very long term Joni follower, anticipating every new release and on cue the day the record store has it on the shelf. For some reason however, I had been distracted. My heart was full of hope for Joni's career at the time. Chalk Mark, so expensive to produce, was a financial disappointment. I'd hear Snakes and Ladders on the radio and think, why'd they pick that one. I am more of a Tea Leaf Prophesy kind of fellow. Anyway, I arrived home with much expectation of an album with a production value that would hit me over the head like Chalk Mark and hoping that Joni would have put down the guitar for a while and sat down at the piano. I skimmed track after track, thinking shit this'll never sell, not at all sensitive to the subtle nuance of the album, which I agree is truly always a pleasure to listen to now that I know better. In the same breath, I will say the same for TTT. I'm not going to be set in MY expectations, and allow the music to carry me to the truth Joni's art has always brought me to. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:19:14 -0800 From: Mark-n-Travis Subject: Re: Night Ride Home- (jc) patrick leader wrote: > i'd love to hear how night ride home hit the longest-term joni freaks, the > one's who've bought every album on release day. I first heard it walking around Tower Records one evening. They were playing 'Passion Play' and my ears pricked up immediately on hearing Joni's voice. I loved the sound of it right from there. It was some time before I could afford to buy it & then I bought a used copy. Money was tight at that point of my life. I did tape my friend Melanie's copy . This is one Joni album I love immediately and couldn't get enough of. I agree with Patrick. It is one of her absolute best. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:32:37 -0400 From: Lisa Durfee Subject: Re: Night Ride Home- (jc) patrick leader wrote: > i'd love to hear how night ride home hit the longest-term joni freaks, the > one's who've bought every album on release day. was it a relief after the > '80s albums? patrick This is my 25th year as a consistent joni phile (I only admit to being sluggish purchasing WTRF and DED) and who Ran to buy Night Ride Home, cause I had loved CIRS. This recording lived in my stereo for months exactly the way Blue did when I first bought it as a 14 yr old, and Hejira when it came out. I immediatly felt it (NRH)was going to be a big breakthough in terms of getting the masses re-interested in her. Though I've stuck by Joni through all of it, to me NRH was the "comeback", commercially anyway. Lisa......who also wants to yak about siberry.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 02:32:17 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Night Ride Home- (jc) Slouching just gives me bumps-followed by Cherokee Louise and Come In From The Cold. I agree with whoever it was that wrote recently(Chad?) that they skipped Ray's Dad's... a most annoying track to my ears. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:01:20 -0800 From: Mark-n-Travis Subject: Re: Morning Morgantown simon@icu.com wrote: > Susan McNamara wrote ... I always saw this song as a day out with > >a favorite child, and never thought of the poignancy of it until I heard > >that Joni had given a child up for adoption. I can just see her sitting > >under an awning across from a mom and daughter sipping lemonade and ... > >longing! When this thread went around the first time & people were saying they thought Morning Morgantown was a sad song, I thought they were nuts! And then Sue put her theory out there & suddenly it all made sense. I used to think it was just a song about 2 people who were lovers or even very close, good friends enjoying a sunny day in a small town. They don't have much money but so what? They have each other and all of those sun-filled mornings still to come. But the last verse just never quite clicked for me. Why would someone buy 'a wooden bird with painted wings' (well maybe) or a 'window full of colored rings' (I really had trouble picturing that one) for a lover or a friend? It never occurred to dense old me that these were toys Joni was talking about. Suddenly it all made sense. The tea for the mother and the lemonade for the child. The mother doesn't have much money, tea & lemonade are probably about all she can afford to celebrate a sunny Morgantown morning. Maybe the song was based on memory or just an imagining & longing for what might have been. It recently occurred to me that Joni is singing 'Unchained Melody' to her lost child at the end of 'Chinese Cafe' and not to a lover. She's mentioned that 'my child's a stranger/I bore her/but I could not raise her'. Then at the very end, if you leave off 'oh my love, my darling' you get: I've hungered for your touch A long lonely time Time goes by so slowly (all those agonizing years since I let you go) And time can do so much (you're so grown up & changed by now) Are you still mine? I need your love I need your love God speed your love to me.... Anybody else ever get this? Is it evident to everyone & I'm just the densest person in JMDL-land? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #95 ************************* There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. 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