From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #93 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, February 24 1999 Volume 04 : Number 093 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Favorite concert (NJC and long) [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Best Rock and Roll Movie [Mark Domyancich ] Fritz (not Felix) the Cat (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Best Rock and Roll Movie [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Fritz (not Felix) the Cat (NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: NJC Info Thanks [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Best/Fave Concerts [MDESTE1@aol.com] Fave Concerts ["Happy The Man" ] Fritz & Joni [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] RE: Roches and No Nukes [Louis Lynch ] Re: coffeehouses, SDS ["P. Henry" ] oops! (NJC) ["P. Henry" ] Bob's new thread: For Love or Money [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Fritz (not Felix) the Cat (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re[2]: NJC Info Thanks [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] For Love or Money [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Joni Book... ["P. Henry" ] The ongoing pot issue in the news (NJC) (kind of long, but worthwhile) [B] RE: Pazz-n-Jop (SJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] Pazz-n-Jop addendum: Joni's voters [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Tears of Stone, TI, VG8, Production ["Don Rowe" ] Re: dirty linen review [Strummed@aol.com] Re: Fritz & Joni [Strummed@aol.com] NJC:Best Rock and Roll Movie [Randy Remote ] Re: Loudest Concert, Best Concerts (SJC) [David Wright ] SNL (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Fritz & Joni [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Fritz (not Felix) the Cat (NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] RE: SNL (NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Love or Money ["Kakki" ] Re: SNL (NJC) [Strummed@aol.com] Re: Fritz (not Felix) the Cat (NJC) ["Don Rowe" ] RE: Joni/Mary Black on the BBC [Catherine Turley Subject: Re: Best Rock and Roll Movie I wouldn't know about this one. Is it a kid's movie? Mark At 9:52 PM -0500 2/23/99, IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > Puts me to sleep, and I like Zeppelin. > How about "Fritz the Cat"? ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:04:49 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Fritz (not Felix) the Cat (NJC) Mark said about "Fritz The Cat" <> Actually quite the opposite, Mark. It was the first X-rated animated film, produced by Ralph Bakshi...I'm not sure why Paul qualifies it as a "Rock n' Roll" movie, unless it's on the basis of attitude. Paul? Bakshi *did* make a "Rock and Roll" movie, however called "American Pop". I was one of the unfortunate saps to plunk down money to see it. Quite lame-o... Bob NP: Steely Dan, "My Old School" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:13:42 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Best Rock and Roll Movie In a message dated 2/24/99 7:23:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, Harpua@revealed.net writes: << I wouldn't know about this one. Is it a kid's movie? Mark At 9:52 PM -0500 2/23/99, IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > Puts me to sleep, and I like Zeppelin. > How about "Fritz the Cat"? >> Hardly. It's a sort of Haight-Ashbury-type movie based on the R. Crumb comic character. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:16:29 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Fritz (not Felix) the Cat (NJC) In a message dated 2/24/99 8:08:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << Actually quite the opposite, Mark. It was the first X-rated animated film, produced by Ralph Bakshi...I'm not sure why Paul qualifies it as a "Rock n' Roll" movie, unless it's on the basis of attitude. Paul? >> I agree with you about "American Pop," but it seems to me that "Fritz the Cat" had a pretty good soundtrack, but I was wrong once before. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:34:43 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC Info Thanks Les Irvin wrote:Eric and all - > The approach I have adopted to administering this list - that of rarely > intervening - is certainly not without it's occasional problems. However, > I feel that the relatively flame-free nature of the list (relative, yes, to > other lists I've been a member of) is much more a reflection of the quality > and maturity of our members than of the way it's administered. Les does not give himself credit, which even though we've never met, seems is his nature. It takes a lot of work and behind the scenes action to maintain a list of this size and activity. And this is about as flame-free a list as I've encountered in years. > > > Regardless, Eric, thanks for your kind words. > Les Well deserved. Your work has and continues to enrich many of our lives, which is exactly what Joni has always been about. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:44:09 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Best/Fave Concerts I wrote before about my top five concerts (and then some) but reading some of these posts has somehow conjured up some memories of some incredible shows that diidnt make the top 5 but were wonderful in their own way so I thought Id add them to the mix. (1) Talking Heads Remain in Light Tour, Warfiled Theater. My sister wanted to go to this show bad and I had never heard the band before. My sister gave me an album and after hearing the first 10 seconds of Born Under Punches I took the record off and went "I've heard enough". She dragged me to this show. I somehow ended up with tickets which I got from a well connected friend and we went. We ended up in the first row of the balcony dead center about 50 feet away from the stage. The band was so incredible. I will never forget it. (2) Joe Pass, Warfield Theater 1980?. The stage is ready and all thats there is a stool, a small amp and a hollow body Gibson jazz guitar. Out comes this little old man and as he walks on to modest applause I said to my date "maybe we should go out in the lobby while this old man does his thing". She declined. T hankfully. The first song goes off (Fascinatin' Rhythm by Cole Porter) and it was truly amazing. About half way through I said "Where are the other four players because there is clearly a drum a bass and at least two other guitars" Joe Pass is a whole different category of player. He is beyond the believeable. I will never forget this little old man. Blew me totally away. (3) CSNY Winterland 1970. This was the first tour with Neil Young. They did literally an entire acoustic concert and then after a short intermission they did an entire electric concert. Their voices were like angels. Stephen Stills was probably at his peak on both electric and acoustic. (4) The final performance of Creedence Clearwater at Fillmore West. That guy John Fogerty can sing his ass off. Every note he plays means something. Hit after hit after hit. Just a high energy evening that somehow got into the blood and stayed there. (5) Doc Watson Great American Mjusic Hall. Just to see this man was one of my all time dreams. He could still play and his voice was like a smooth shot of Jack daniels on a humid porch in Kentucky around sundown. (6) Wings Cow Palace 1974.The only band I have never seen was the Beatles. literally. Who wanted to pay 12.95 to hear girls scream, right ? By the time I saw Wings I was expecting to be bummed out by what I considered to be pedestrian songs. Took my sister on her birthday. Well again I was blown away simply by Paul McCartney. He has one of the all time all time voices and hes a master musician. He took those pedestrian songs and made them fabulous. Even Silly Love Songs which used to make me puke until I heard him do it live. I could go on and could even do a top five Who concerts. It suire is fun to remember these great shows. marcel deste. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:50:24 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Fave Concerts Okay this is tough I have seen some concerts that I don't remember being good concerts only to read the paper and have some local rag writer to tell me it was the best they had ever seen. Could it have been the musical stimulus that I had imported into my body. Favorite Arena concert: Stones, I want to say 75 at Long Beach but those of you with clearer heads might want to help me out on this. I was young and impressionable. Though I have to admit I thought it was awesome. Favorite stadium concert: Beach Boys, Loggins & Messina & Rod Stewart, again I think 75 then that makes me think that the stones was maybe 72, wow a huge fuzz. But the Beach boys had Anaheim Stadium Rocking, literally. The paper said the upper decks were moving a foot during their set. Favorite amp concert: Tie Genesis "Lamb lies down tour" & Loggins & Messina "Santa Barbara County bowl" Favorite Small Club: This is recently and it was Neil Finn w/ Shawn Colvin sitting in. Just good stuff. Finn's voice is awesome! Favorite surprise concert: The spinners @ Disneyland, my neighbor friends asked me to go it was great. We were dancing in the isles at this one. Fun, Fun, Fun. Worst Arena concert: Neil Young at the Drum (83-85), arena to big, I went with a couple who was young and thought smoking pot was the yuppie thing to do. The chick was hitting on me during the concert and it really pissed me off but the ticket was free from them and it was the last one I went with to people I didn't know. Worst Stadium Concert: Yes, Peter Frampton, Gentle Giant and Toots and the Maytalls. Wrong place people were pretty racked and wasted made for a shitty day. Oh, lost my wallet probably had something to do with it. Worst Amp: Beach boys, I think universal but their harmonies were completely off and Dennis went off during the concert and his DH came in to take his place (around 82) Worst club: Sorry kakki but Bobby Caldwell in some dive in Portland. I was completely disappointed and I think he was too because he only did about a 75 minute set. He even stopped in the middle and quit playing one song. Best friend dragged me to this said I loved it, we played his music in the locker room before games. Peace, Craig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:00:32 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Fritz & Joni From Paul: <> I never actually saw the movie, I just knew about it, so I didn't think about it in terms of soundtrack. Of course, now *every* movie has a music soundtrack out there, that's why I enjoyed "Shakespeare in Love" & "Waking Ned Devine" so much - - the focus was on the movie, not on making a "Titanic"-like hit soundtrack or selling action figures... ***SUBJECT CHANGE ALERT***(Joni content) Totally changing the subject, I was listening to "For Love Or Money" (a song which fascinates me because she's never recorded it in the studio), and thinking about the phrases: "He's got stacks and stacks of words that rhyme Describing what it is to lose He's got some just for laughs He's got some for love That mainline to his blues Some to shed a little light on you and on me Some to shed a little light on the human story" This part kind of reminds me of JT, who wrote some songs just for laughs (Chili Dog), and of course many others about love and more heavy issues. But when I look at the entire song, it seems more like it could be about, or at least heavily influenced by Jim Morrison. The first lyric is "The firmament of Tinsel Town is strung with tungsten stars" And Morrison was a LA native, right? The lyrics I quoted earlier actually apply more to a poet than to a songwriter, which Morrison is more aptly descibed as. The girl that hovers above him would be his self-titled "soulmate", Pamela. There's even a reference to "Twentieth Century Fox" which could be used to segue from the daily news to thoughts of her and was also, of course, a track from The Doors first record. Obviously, Twentieth Century Fox has a couple of other meanings so maybe there's no connection and I'm digging too deep. But as we know, Joni's songs are seldom shallow :~) I doubt the song is *about* Morrison, but maybe he was an influence. Wonder what you guys think or *know*? Bob NP: Bruce, "Rosalita" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:40:45 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Roches and No Nukes ROCHE SISTERS To those who wrote to defend the Roches: the concert I saw was very early in their career. And I'm not exaggerating when I say that they were, by far, the most unprofessional act I've ever seen live. Perhaps they learned the value of appreciating their audience based on their early mistakes. More power to them. NO NUKES CONCERT Was anyone at the No Nukes concert in Washington DC 20 years ago? Joni Mitchell showed up as a surprise guest: "They paved paradise and put up a nuclear hot-spot." She joined Jackson Browne for "Crow on the Cradle," a song so moving it still runs through my memory and my heart intact after all this time. Anyway, a group of activists from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, (Three Mile Island's address is Middletown, a nearby suburb) is putting together an exhibit in the state museum to recognize what we went through 20 years ago. They even have the original blue "No Nukes" banner that served as the stage backdrop. If anyone has photos or other memorabilia of the concert that can be duplicated for the exhibit, please let me know. Thanks. IN HARMONY I agree! The In Harmony albums are among my favorites, too! A great compilation. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:57:11 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: coffeehouses, SDS hi debra, sorry it took me a while to respond... been busy and now I'm catching up on my digests. debra wrote: < Pat, I liked your brief history of the music/folk scene. It was just the curve ahead of me, but I"m really interested in that time... > I'm glad to be able to share real facts instead of some of the tales that get spun... < When I was a freshman at U of I, I went to some SDS meetings and heard speeches from SDS folks. I'm sure there were variations of radicalism, depending on what university one was at. These speakers were radical if by radical you mean Marxist rather than liberal. They'd done their homework from the old left but departed from them too. But they did advocate a union of workers and students working together to end the war and other things as well--liberty and justice for all (pretty radical, huh?)--thus I think they were sincere, earnest, fiery, impatient. Unfortunately, thanks to J. Edgar Hoover's FBI, this group and others were infiltrated by "agents provacateurs." These agents usually were the ones trying to advocate violent acts; the purpose of course was to destroy these organization's credibility. > my own experience with activism was mostly with civil rights and marijuana legalization, though I attended the occasional anti-war rally when I wasn't busy... being from detroit, I was more involved with John Sinclair's white panthers and, as I stated to kakki, never had contact with sds in port huron, but mentioned them as the one thing that might have caused people to hear of the town where the Cellar was. my own recollections of that time, colored by 30 years of living life, are that the great majority of the 'hippies' were idealistic people moved by things like you mentioned such as liberty and justice for all as well as some compassion thrown in for good measure, but, regardless of however much they are lionized in the age of the poitically correct, were, on the whole, sheep, all too ready to march on washington or whoever at the drop of a peace symbol. I don't say this as a critic but as someone who was in the herd... and, yes, there were articulate, bright concerned individuals who were vocal and active but most were happy doing nothing but screwing and tripping and hanging out but there was always some person around stirring things up, whether an FBI plant or a 'communist instigator', as some said, I don't really know, and when they sounded the call everyone would jump in the bus and get out to the demonstration, most not really concerned what it was about... it was 'peer pressure' gone wild. also, there was always someone around with militant action on their mind, though this *definately* was not where most people's heads were at... there was the arms cache in the back of the candle shop on plum street... then there was the time 'president dave' blew up the wayne state precinct police station... the way it looked to 'straights' (which meant something else back then) was that the hippies were all behind it... but this wasn't the case... in fact nobody knew it was going to happen! he went off totally on his own! though the student activism was removed from the street scene, I suspect that the same was true there to some extent and that the people who wanted to burn or blow up or shoot were the exception and not the rule... pat NP: 'For What It's Worth' - buffalo springfield http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:00:33 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: oops! (NJC) MY APOLOGIES TO THE LIST... LAST POST TO DEBRA WAS SUPPOSED TO BE LABELED: (NJC) pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:42:14 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Bob's new thread: For Love or Money In a message dated 99-02-24 09:06:02 EST, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: >I doubt the song is *about* Morrison, but maybe he was an influence. Wonder >what you guys think or *know*? > > You could flip the tables and the song could just as easily be about Joni herself. In a wry mood, she/we could conceive of "stacks and stacks of words that rhyme...lose....love..." to be core themes in her songs. (a la "how come I keep moving from man to man to man to man). Ghostly girl could work as "Fame" and "Success" in mainstream terms. Always "just out of reach..." Sure, Joni has always stuck to her way of making music, but it's tough to miss and dismiss the bitter edge that can often run through her interviews about mainstream music and acceptance. I think that sometimes, no matter how completely we are at peace to be "different," there can be times when it would be nice to be part of the group. Side note: While rebounding this morning, CNN announced Stevie Wonder's Polar Prize. They recited past recipiants - not one of them was Joni. No wonder she gets pissed off. (how to care and yet not care....) MG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:16:15 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Fritz (not Felix) the Cat (NJC) Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: > > > Mark said about "Fritz The Cat" > > <> > > Actually quite the opposite, Mark. It was the first X-rated animated film, > produced by Ralph Bakshi...I'm not sure why Paul qualifies it as a "Rock n' > Roll" movie, unless it's on the basis of attitude. Paul? > > Bakshi *did* make a "Rock and Roll" movie, however called "American Pop". I was > one of the unfortunate saps to plunk down money to see it. Quite lame-o... I'm hoping Paul was kidding. Fritz the Cat was a one joke animated film that became quite a bore after about 20 minutes. Most of the audience who saw it when I did were pretty stoned and even they were leaving in droves. Jerry np: No Nukes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:22:02 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Tears of Stone, TI, VG8, Production Well having communed with the Chieftains treatment of Joni's "Magdalene Laundries" and making an evening of comparison listening to the original TI track, several answers to some questions that have been asked on and off for a while may have come into clearer focus. First, "Why not another producer for Joni?" This sort of brings me to my first beef about 'Tears of Stone' -- the liner notes are somewhat sketchy. From what I can see, it would appear that Paddy Maloney acted as sole producer, since there is no co-production credit on Joni's track. This, of course, doesn't mean that she didn't lend a hand ... and I frankly can't imagine that she didn't. Nonetheless, the sound of both guitar and vocals are radically different from TI. I can chalk up the majority of the difference in the guitar sound to the VG8, and I'll get to that later on. Vocally, I find Joni's voice somewhat confined, overly "bright" from a surfeit of high end mixing, and the delivery not nearly as smooth or warm as the original. The phrasing is blocky, and anyone who complained about the plosive "s", "p" and "t" annunciations on TTT would likely cringe hard at this recording. I find it all a bit stifling, which some I'm sure will say, fits the mood of the song perfectly. If this is a production call, I'll cast my first vote against outside production for Joni -- at least vocally. As Judy Collins writes, "Never let a producer make you sound like something you don't hear in your own voice." Okay, onto the VG8. This is one of the real high points of the track for me. The radical left-right channel separation of the upper and lower strings allows the Chieftans a huge space to fill in the middle of the soundstage, and it works perfectly. The tone Joni selected is far less percussive than a lot of the sound of TTT, which is starting to make me think she's becoming more comfortable with her new hybrid six-string. The blend with the arcane and traditional acoustic instruments and the backing choir is seamless, and gives the whole track a haunting Medieval "other worldliness" that the original lacked. Again, if this was a production call -- score big points for outside producer here. From an arrangement standpoint, score a whole lot more points for The Chieftains. The playing and placement serves to deepen the song, without transforming or cluttering it at all. So overall, I like the 'Tears of Stone' version of 'Magdalene Laundries', and that the results make a strong case for having Joni produce her own voice, while deferring some arrangement and mixing responsibilities to an outsider could produce an album that would, well, come pretty darned close to 'Hejira' -- provided she can find and work with the right person. So, thoughts anyone? Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:11:56 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: NJC Info Thanks Jerry tips his hat: <> The phrase "leading by example" is what I would apply to both Les' and Wally's presence...take a well-deserved bow, fellas! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:27:24 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: For Love or Money MG said: <> Thanks for your take, MG...sometimes I can only see one dimension and other views are what I need... <> And I also saw in the paper this AM where the Village Voice gave Album of the year to "Car Wheels", narrowly edging "Miseducation". You go, girl! Bob NP: The Bluerunners "Heat Down Below" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:59:22 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Joni Book... just catching up so forgive me if this has already been said... jerry wrote: < Maybe there is an Our JMDL Gang book in the future. > actually this is a great idea and it would really be fitting to an artist like Joni! I've only been on the list for a couple months and I've already seen a great deal of interesting material. it would be best done in segments similar to wallyB's bio section and you could go all the way back through the archives... *S* pat NP: That's What You Get For Loving Me - Lightfoot Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:05:46 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: The ongoing pot issue in the news (NJC) (kind of long, but worthwhile) 04:33 AM ET 02/23/99 U.N. Seeks Medical Marijuana Study By NICOLE WINFIELD= Associated Press Writer= UNITED NATIONS (AP) _ A U.N. report recommends ending the politicized debate over using marijuana for medical needs by conducting in-depth and impartial scientific research into its possible benefits for some patients. The report, released today by the International Drug Control Board, doesn't call for the legalization of marijuana or advocate loosening controls over its use, said board member Herbert S. Okun of the United States. It calls instead for serious research in the public and private sector to determine whether there are medicinal benefits for marijuana. Only scientific evidence can end the current debate which is ``characterized by ignorance, by emotion, by propaganda on all sides _ or at least certainly on the extremes of both sides,'' Okun told a news conference Monday to launch the report. The recommendation is highlighted in the annual report of the Vienna-based board, which is a 13-member, quasi-judicial organization overseeing U.N. drug treaties. Among the other findings, the report said Europeans are the world's top users of stress-reducing drugs, while Americans hold the record for consuming the most performance-enhancing substances. While the reasons for such a disparity weren't known, Okun said it may lie in cultural, lifestyle and other forces. The aging European population has access to more extensive health care systems, which may be more willing to prescribe drugs to reduce aches and pains, he noted. The high use of performance-enhancing drugs in the Americas may be at least partly explained by the prevalent sense of competition there, the report indicated. In particular, Okun said the board was concerned about over-prescription in the United States of methylphenidate, sold as the drug Ritalin, to treat children with attention deficit disorder. American patients are consuming 330 million daily doses of the substance compared to 65 million for patients in the rest of the world, the report found. The agency also warned that more and more North Americans are smoking heroin and said Europe has emerged as a producer of cannabis and synthetic drugs. Cannabis continues to be the most commonly abused drug in the United States, Canada and Mexico. The report expressed concern about the prevalence of do-it-yourself guides on the Internet, which teach users how to prepare certain illegal substances. And it repeated its concern that painkillers such as morphine are increasingly hard to come by in the developing world, though they are widely available in the industrialized world _ about 100 times more available in the world's top 20 industrialized countries than in the bottom 20. The board, whose mission is to ensure the legal availability of drugs for medical purposes, is launching a campaign called ``Freedom From Pain'' to make such drugs more available in the developing world. ### And that's the way it is... Brian === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:44:10 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: Pazz-n-Jop (SJC) Bob M. wrote: <<>> And I can't think of two more deserving chart-toppers. Looking at the results, I think they pretty much got it right. Here's the top 25 (parenthetical notations my own): 1 Lucinda Williams Car Wheels on a Gravel Road 2 Lauryn Hill The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (I'd swap the first two, but that's a quibble) 3 Bob Dylan Live 1966 (not technically a reissue but one in spirit; I think it should have been included there instead) 4 Billy Bragg & Wilco Mermaid Avenue 5 Elliott Smith XO 6 OutKast Aquemini 7 PJ Harvey Is This Desire? (first misstep IMO: too high) 8 Air Moon Safari 9 Beastie Boys Hello Nasty 10 Rufus Wainwright Rufus Wainwright (well-deserved) 11 Beck Mutations 12 R.E.M. Up 13 Belle and Sebastian The Boy With the Arab Strap (an overrated album by one of my favorite bands) 14 Hole Celebrity Skin 15 Neutral Milk Hotel In the Aeroplane Over the Sea 16 Massive Attack Mezzanine 17 Liz Phair Whitechocolatespaceegg (too low but glad to see her here) 18 Costello/Bacharach Painted From Memory 19 Garbage Version 2.0 20 Mercury Rev Deserter's Songs 21 Madonna Ray of Light (ditto my L. Phair comments) 22 Pulp This Is Hardcore 23 Cat Power Moon Pix (some very cool moments) 24 Black Star Mos Def and Talib Kweli Are Black Star 25 Quasi Featuring "Birds" I truly have a problem: I own no less than 17 of these top 25! (Hey, my boyfriend bought a couple of them!! :-) ) Herbie Hancock's _Gershwin's World_ ties for 154 w/ Bonnie Raitt, Busta Rhymes, Beta Band, MOP, and Rasco with 54 points from 5 critics' ballots. TTT tied for 174 w/ Kelly Price's _Soul of a Woman, with 49 points from 5 ballots. For more complete results, check out: http://www.villagevoice.com/ - --Michael NP: Dar Williams, _The Honesty Room_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:49:21 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Pazz-n-Jop addendum: Joni's voters Voting for TTT were: Al Choman Carol Cooper Randall Grass Susan Hamre Chris Willman Interestingly, four of the five also voted for Lauryn, but only one for Lucinda. In some ways the exact opposite of what you'd expect, but in others just like it should be... - --Michael NP: TLC, _Fan Mail_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:59:33 -0000 From: "paul tyrer" Subject: Chieftains LP Hi everyone Have just heard JM's version of magdalene Laundries with the Chieftains (for those of you in the UK, it's on HMV listening posts in the folk/country section). It wasn't what I expected - JM is singing and playing her new guitar, but the song is at a slower pace than on TI. I'm not sure exactly what it is the Chieftains are supposed to be doing - there's just the odd rumble of a bhodhran and the occasional uillean pipe but that's it. And it seems more like a 'jam' than a properly arranged song - I'm not sure the C's themselves knew what they were doing! I don't think JM sings it as well as on TI either - she sounds self-conscious. The only thing I really liked was this shrieking girl choir who sing the odd melody line in a so-clear-it-hurts soprano. Entirely and extremely strange. I preferred the TI version (in case you'd not guessed). Paul X ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:59:00 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Tears of Stone, TI, VG8, Production Marcel writes ... >It is always possible that the final sound didnt come during >recording at all between the final mix down and the product being >produced is a thing called the final final mix. The process you refer to is called "mastering", and is more than anything else, a level equalization of all individual tracks, from which the standard stereo tape will be produced that serves as the "master" from which finished product is produced. And yes, substantial changes can occur here -- which is why "remastered" CDs are often vastly superior in quality. But it is the producer who makes the final mastering calls -- so the results are still attribuable to him/her. Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:18:19 EST From: Strummed@aol.com Subject: Re: dirty linen review WAY TO GO BILL. I don't expect everyone who listens to jonis' work to like it. her or any other artists for that matter. the arenas shes in this kind thing i s to be expected and has been the track record for time eternal. doesnt make it rite but i applaud your counterpunching and not rolling over for there program (there reiview of jonis work) but what greater complement is there to come to the support of a treasured artist. take my vote with you as you proceed. yours musically, CHRI$. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:35:20 EST From: Strummed@aol.com Subject: Re: Fritz & Joni hEY ROCK CARTOON MOVIES Then you got to see "HEAVY METAL" Excellent production and music. yours musically, CHRI$. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:38:04 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: NJC:Best Rock and Roll Movie "This Is Spinal Tap" RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:10:02 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Loudest Concert, Best Concerts (SJC) Re: the Amnesty '86 concert, Randy Remote wrote: > > Also, during "Number One" > Sting's female backup singer (name?) sang the "got to hold your head up > higher" part. Sting's (then-)backup singers were Janice Pendarvis and Dollette McDonald. Don't know which sang with Joni. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:15:26 EST From: Strummed@aol.com Subject: Re: Best Rock and Roll Movie good choices. CHRI$ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:09:40 EST From: Strummed@aol.com Subject: (no subject) small observation here. caught the warning that lucinda williams was the musical guest on last weeks saturday night live, february 20th,1999. welL i watched with anticipation given the b4 performance due she was getting. being always hungry for that relationship with a musical touch. big reason i think jonis' been so popular. no ? in any case i'll give lucindas performance the benefit of the doubt. didnt really do anything for me but thats just me. maybe they just didn't play the music from there repretoure that would make me pursue there work more ? maybe i'll take charlie weaver to block while i'm at it. all in all i havent seen any other "hey did you see snl the other night with lucinda Ws" shout outs IN THIS FORUM. the very same place i was exposed to L.W. ? i find this most curious. what gives ? saving it for the weeknd ? hope everyone was at the KINGS X / GALACTIC COWBOYS TOUR gig. that would explain everything and keep order in the universe. yours musically, CHRI$. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:27:10 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Best Rock and Roll Movie Pink Floyd: Live at Pompeii ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:28:57 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Best Rock and Roll Movie (NJC) Bob M. wrote: > > And I'm sure there's a bunch more, but I'll leave 'em for someone else > to mention... I'd add: "All Over Me," with Allison Folland (the girl in "To Die For," with Nicole Kidman) Only partly a rock 'n' roll movie, actually, but there's an absolutely incandescent scene where Allison -- as a queer teenage girl who takes care of her best friend and her mother, dreams of starting a rock band, and comes to terms with her sexuality -- breaks down listening to a majestic Patti Smith song (one from _Radio Ethiopia_, I think "Pissing in a River"?). (Michael Y., have you seen?) I recommend. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:44:45 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: joni at amnesty '86 patrick leader wrote: > > randy, the notation on the video tree says the amnesty concert was 6/15/86 > (i assume someone researched it) and my memory says strongly that i taped > it that summer (it was my first year in ny). maybe you had heard 'number > one' earlier? > No, just mixed up! The Amnesty show WAS in June '86. What I was thinking was that I had to wait two years until Chalk Mark came out to hear "Number One" on record. I'd forgotten (how could I?) about Hejira being the third song, too. Must have been delirious!?! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:43:46 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: SNL (NJC) CHRI$ $aid: <> Hey Chris, I *did* make mention of the performance the other day, but historically SNL performances are always pretty weak and don't generate a lot of buzz IMO. Whether it's because the acoustics of that space are so poor or the space itself is so small, I don't know, and I gave up on SNL years ago so I'm not really up to speed on the musical performances of late. Maybe the performers can't get in the groove playing only one song at a time like they do. Typically, you're not gonna get turned on to an artist because of their SNL performance, it's only interesting if you're familiar with the artist's work. A couple exceptions: Elvis Costello stopping his band a couple of bars into their scheduled song to play the acidic "Radio Radio" Fear, who played about 3 songs in row before the station just cut to a commercial. I remember this was on Halloween night with Donald Pleasance as the host. Not that I was a huge fan of Fear, but I did enjoy the "out-of-control" chaos that was present. Rickie Lee Jones, who was supposed to play "Chuck E" and "Danny's All Star Joint", deviated from the latter song much to Lorne Micheals' chagrin to play "Coolsville" which I recall was really well-performed emotionally. Bob NP: Blues Traveler "Stand" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:08:19 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Fritz & Joni In a message dated 2/24/99 9:04:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << I doubt the song is *about* Morrison, but maybe he was an influence. Wonder what you guys think or *know*? Bob >> I think you have too much time on your hands, Bob, and baseball season won't come soon enough for you! Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:13:41 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Fritz (not Felix) the Cat (NJC) In a message dated 2/24/99 10:15:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << I'm hoping Paul was kidding. Fritz the Cat was a one joke animated film that became quite a bore after about 20 minutes. Most of the audience who saw it when I did were pretty stoned and even they were leaving in droves. Jerry >> We must have had better stuff to smoke than you did, Jerry, cause I remember it being somewhat entertaining and no drives were leaving. ;>) Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:29:09 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: SNL (NJC) Bob M. wrote: <<>> Except an SNL performance is one of the most reliable ways to instigate a sales spike for a new album. The performance in and of itself may not turn someone onto a performer, but it gets them on their radar screen in a powerful way. Just remember, the average music consumer responds to these things in a very different way from you and me. - --Michael, who loves Madonna's _Erotica_ era SNL performance NP: The Roots, _Things Fall Apart_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:20:40 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Love or Money Bob wrote: >This part kind of reminds me of JT, who wrote some songs just for laughs >(Chili Dog), and of course many others about love and more heavy issues. >But when I look at the entire song, it seems more like it could be about, >or at least heavily influenced by Jim Morrison. The first lyric is > >"The firmament of Tinsel Town is strung with tungsten stars" > >And Morrison was a LA native, right? I recall that Morrison was an "Army brat" who lived in many places. He attended UCLA and while there formed The Doors. They first played in local clubs in L.A. and Hollywood. The song describes a talented songwriter/musician who has fallen through the cracks (like so many) in the music industry. Lots of 40 watt successes are making it in Tinsel Town (where most of that industry is based), but he (and many others of greater talent) is not . "He says where's my own shining hour, He's the secret of the underground" implies he is quite good but overlooked and not quite making it. "He's in debt to the company store" implies he is not recouping on the advance from the record company. And the whole motivation for writing these stacks and stacks of words that rhyme and going through this - "his channeled aspiration" - is "getting back the girl he had before." But he can't get the girl back and he's not heading for 100 watt success - "he tried but he could not get it down, for love or money." I don't think she's thinking of Morrison, who, in contrast, was an immediate and overnight success, at least in these parts. I don't think it is about Joni, either, although she obviously can empathize with the character. >There's even a >reference to "Twentieth Century Fox" which could be used to segue from the >daily news to thoughts of her and was also, of course, a track from The >Doors first record. Obviously, Twentieth Century Fox has a couple of other >meanings so maybe there's no connection and I'm digging too deep. But as we >know, Joni's songs are seldom shallow :~) I think her meaning is that watching war footage on the TV news becomes almost unreal after awhile, like watching a movie - "but tonight inside that box, bang bang ketchup color to him, just more Twentieth Century Fox." Twentieth Century Fox seemed to produce almost all the movies for many years. (Twentieth Century Fox also had a record company and was trying to compete with the others in the late 60's, early 70s. It was later merged into Polygram.) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:48:19 EST From: Strummed@aol.com Subject: Re: SNL (NJC) You make good points Bob. 1 sorry i missed your review somehow, but there should have been more than yours. 2ndly the L.W. band didn't look loose and more concerned about playing the rite notes.? S.N.L. still can be the axel of a bands progress to success or to continue to schlepp around for who knows how much longer. Admittadly i would have to see and hear a lot more than what they offered to make any kind of educated judgement so hence I'm on the fence with these guys. My take on it is if a band goes on S.N.L. they looking at a great chance to really move there musical carreers ahead to hopefully the next level. acoustics, sets etc. irregarding. I always thought the a band that is going to play that set should really warm up for about an hour and half prior to playing on the air. Then theres no warm up time because its already a done deal. when i played in a band on a regular basis i was always in the studio either an hour or 3 prior to the total band prax. was there a differance between there approach to playing and the ground i already covered ? s.n.l. gigs dont come around everyday. also to be sure s.n.l isnt what it used to be but thats another side of the disc. I recall seeing some unknown bands play that gig and dying to hear more of there work and more than once. and some of them I never heard of again much to my chagrin. absolutely 1 of those times that i would have ran out at the 1st oppurtunity to buy their work. not only my loss but that of the performers and of all the possible new fans that would have been drummed up 1 way or another. Sound kind of cyclical ? Yours musically, CHRI$. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:14:18 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Fritz (not Felix) the Cat (NJC) >We must have had better stuff to smoke than you did, Jerry, cause I remember >it being somewhat entertaining and no drives were leaving. >;>) >Paul I Oh absolutely, accessorizing was of key importance. I was always so bummed when I would choose the "Reflective/Pensive" ganga, when the situation obviously called for the "Funny Ha-Ha" reefer ... but you live and you learn! ;-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:26:27 -0700 From: Catherine Turley Subject: RE: Joni/Mary Black on the BBC Can I send out another plea in hopes that a kind UK jimdler taped the BBC Mary Black interview with Joni? Or maybe it can make its way to a tape tree . . . Besides seeing Joni in concert this year, hands down the best show I've been to in years was Mary Black last fall in Scottsdale, AZ. I have been listening to Mary's cds for some time and thought them engaging enough, but seeing her live was quite a revelation. She doesn't write her own stuff, but watching her in concert really opened my eyes to the possibilities of interpretation--Mary made every song her own, personal and deeply felt. She opened her second set with an a capella version of Sting's "Fields of Gold" that was just stunning--still get shivers thinking about it. (Unfortunately she didn't perform her cover of Urge for Going). Larry Klein produced Mary's most recent album, "Shine." Its a real stylistic departure from most of her previous work (and has not been met with entirely positive responses from long-time MB fans). But Mary had good things to say from the stage about Larry. She called him "the wonderful Larry Klein," and then said "well, I'm sure you all know all about him and how fantastic he is." Which was sort of amusing because her concert was part of a subscription series and a good three quarters of the audience was series subscribers--well fed, well tanned, white headed Scottsdale retirees who thought they were coming for an evening of traditional Irish folk music. Don 't know how big Larry is in the over-60 Scottsdale crowd. Anyway, it was a testament to her talent that it only took her a few songs to win over the uninitiated--by evening's end she really had the audience with her. Anyway, if the Joni/MB interview made its way to tape--I can send blanks, postage--still have several pounds left over from my last trip the England--other small gifts--you name it. Catherine T in AZ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #93 ************************* There is now a JMDL tape trading list. 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