From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #81 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, February 17 1999 Volume 04 : Number 081 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: I love ya all! (njc) [catman ] Re: NJC - Legal Weed [catman ] first albums, etc. [The Humphreys ] Re: NJC - Legal Weed [catman ] Re: NJC - Legal Weed [catman ] Re: NJC - Legal Weed [catman ] Re: first albums, cds, etc. [catman ] Re: first albums, cds, etc. (NJC) [catman ] Re: NJC - Legal Weed [Scott Price ] Re: NJC - Legal Weed [Don Sloan ] Re: first albums, cds, etc. (NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Subject: first albums, cds, etc. (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: I love ya all! (njc) ["P. Henry" ] RE: first purchases (VLJC) [patrick leader ] Hey Jerry!! [Michael Paz ] Re: first albums, cds, etc. [luvart@snet.net] Re: first albums, etc. [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: NJC - Legal Weed [IVPAUL42@aol.com] weed (njc) [patrick leader ] Re: NJC - Legal Weed [Scott Price ] Re: first albums, cds, etc. [Brian Gross ] Re: weed (njc) [catman ] Re: first albums, cds, etc. [Mark-n-Travis ] NJC - Legal Weed ["Happy The Man" ] Firsts... (NJC) [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Unflattering TTT Review [Anne Madden ] Re: I love ya all! (njc) ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: NJC - Legal Weed ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: first albums, cds, etc. [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: first albums, cds, etc ["Eric Taylor" ] 78,45,lp,cassette ["Gene Mock" ] Taliban's shame [Gellerray@aol.com] Taliban's shame 2 (forgot my city--sorry) [Gellerray@aol.com] JMDL partying ["Marsha" ] Re: JMDL partying ["Kakki" ] Re: first purchases (VLJC) ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: first albums, cds, etc. [Joseph Palis ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:05:47 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: I love ya all! (njc) hey those other lists sound like a lot of fun! maybe I should take my self over there and talk about Joni! Seriously, I agree with you this is the best list. Even my own, the CSDL, has attracted some appalling people with even more appalling posts-antisemetic, homophobic, just plain nasty. Some creep even complained that she wasn't working just because of her cancer and didn't she care about her loyal fans!!!! To be honest I am shocked that such a singer/songwriter would attract such nasty people. Although some posts on the list have been near the mark, the JMDL is Enoid Blyton compared to many others. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:03:44 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC - Legal Weed I sort of see where you are coming from but if I relate it other laws, like those relating to homosexuality, then i cannot agree with you. If I rmemebr correctly, in some states it is still illegal. So are you saying that any gay person in jail in those states for being themselves are there by their own fault? I use this as an example, not to get into a whole gay thread agian, but because it was an obvious parallel to me. Some laws should be broken and some penalites are grossly wrong. Personally, I think ALL drugs should be legal. Firsttly because NO ONE has the right to tell me what I can and cannot put into my own body. Alchohol is legal and causes many many deaths and untold misery in families evrywhere the world over. I know that seems illogical to say when i just advocated legalising ALL drugs. But I think it is a fundamentally wrong principle to prohibit peoples freedom of choice in this area. Also much of the crime involved with drugs would disappear as the crimes only exist cos of the illegality of the drugs in the first place. BUT people need to know the facts about drugs and their consequences. For instance, many people, like I used to, think that marijuana is 'safe'-non addictive and no withdrawals. Bullshit! As I found to my cost. Many years ago I had been gone thru withdrawl from Valium-one of the wortst one can go thru. This was when they didn't understand what that drug did to people. Years later , having been a regular pot smoker, i stopped and went thru an even worse withdrawl. It involved major panic attacks, clod sweats, gastric trouble-constipation, the runs, cramps, acid, vomiting etc, headaches, violent shaking for a couple of hours upon waking and severe muscle spasms and pains. This all took several months to go away, but the most severe lasted approximately 6 weeks. When I discovered pot, I thought it was the answer to my difficluties-non of the side effects and withdrawal probs of psych drugs. I couldn't have been more wrong-beacuse I was informed. Hsad I had acceess to the net years ago, I would have known that it is addictive and that there are withdrawls. Of course I also know people who smoked a loing time and stopped and they just had a bad temper for weeks. Like I also know a woman friend who took heroin for years and stopped and did so easily and has not ever touched it again. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:13:16 -0500 From: The Humphreys Subject: first albums, etc. My turn... 45: Doors- Hello I Love You LP: Monkeys- the shiny one, I don't remember the name of it CD: Joni- Blue and Lyle Mayes-Street Dreams Cassette: Yes- Fragile Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:09:19 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC - Legal Weed I would argue that alchohol is always used to get 'high' too. Even by social drinkers-it is used as a relaxant or a sedative. If it did not have an effect on the central nervous system, it wouldn't be so popular. Also, the idea that pot is used as a stepping stone to harder drugs is just not true, in general. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:11:23 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC - Legal Weed I have alweays been surprised that one can die for ones country(USA) as a teen but not drink till 21 and also that one can drive at a very early age. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:15:31 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC - Legal Weed BTW pot is illeagl here. yet where I live, it is easily got. Old ladies smoke it! And I mean it is very widespread. I can go to at least 4 homes that I know of to by it-and all within a short walk. And to answer paul-I'd rather be around a pot head than a drunk anyday. Even the fun drunks are a pain and not predictable. the worst a pot head can do is bore you! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:17:01 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: first albums, cds, etc. First lp- Anticpation Carly ist Cassette-as above ist single-I Feel Love-Donna Summer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:18:04 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: first albums, cds, etc. (NJC) What is an 8 track? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:39:12 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: first purchases (VLJC) Evian wrote: > > What was the first 45, LP, CD, cassette, etc. that you bought? vinyl: I think Fairport Convention, _Liege and Lief_...or it might have been Joni, HOSL CD: Sandy Denny, _Like an Old-Fashioned Waltz_ cassette: Joni, C&S cassette single: Bjork, _Human Behavior_ I don't think I've ever bought a CD single, a 12-inch single, or (needless to say) an 8-track... - --David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:47:00 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: NJC - Legal Weed At 03:31 PM 2/16/99 EST, IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > The biggest opponent to legalization of pot is the alcoholic beverage >industry. They would lose a lot of customers who, if pot were legal, might >switch to what I believe to be a LESS harmful *drug*. Paul, I would ask if you have any first-hand knowledge of the alcoholic beverage industry opposing legalization. In all my years in this business, including numerous legislative and political conferences, on all levels from local to state to federal, the subject has simply never come up. It's a *non-issue* in my circles. I'm really curious about who, specifically, in the alcoholic beverage industry, has come out on record with any position on this issue. Also, studies have shown that moderate consumption of alcohol actually has health benefits. I've yet to see any studies showing marijuana usage to have a *physical* health benefit...as in "reduced risk of heart disease," which is now an accepted effect of alcohol consumption. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:44:58 -0800 From: Don Sloan Subject: Re: NJC - Legal Weed Interesting posts on this topic. To be honest, I would have expected a heavier dose (no pun intended) of people in favor of straight (again no pun intended) legalization. As it might make a difference to some in interpreting my opinion, I'll say that I haven't used this drug in almost 30 years. But I favor complete legalization for adults (folks over the age of 18 or 21 in USA). My main reason is that if someone wants to smoke this evil weed in the privacy of their own home, why should others interfere with that? By what moral authority do they have a right to interfere? I say "None". But so many folks in USA are compelled to determine what others do based on what they think is right or wrong. Boooooo!!! Another reason I favor legalization is the cost - we all know the huge sums of money (billions and billions, year after year) spent on this so-called war on drugs may as well go "up in smoke". It's a real waste. Doesn't work; never will. People have been using substances to alter their awareness since the beginning of time. Perhaps more expensive is the collateral cost - huge amounts of crime are committed every year by people who, if marijuana was legal, would NOT do the crimes - burglaries, assaults, murders, drive-bys - the list is really looooong. Sure, most of this crime is connected to *harder* drugs, but a whole lot of folks would switch to pot if it was legal (and probably a lot of folks would switch from alcohol, too). I suggest making use legal - then we would have the monetary resources to appropriately deal with the folks who do real Crimes Against Others. (The justice system in USA is literally collapsing under the weight of the war on drugs.) But this brings up what may be the real problem, perhaps one of the biggest problem in USA: we don't have the collective courage, the will, to require (or allow) people to be responsible for their own actions. What does a drunk driver get? A virtual slap on the hand. What does a murderer get? Average in USA about six years. Instead of letting smokers (of tobacco) suffer the consequences of their actions, we go after the cig companies and paint the smoker as victim. Now we are going after the gun companies. Who will be next? Fat-food manufacturers (heart disease still #1 killer in USA)? Meat processing plants? MacDonalds? Alcohol producers? If we all paid the true price of our stupidity, their would be a lot less of it. Instead, in America, we choose to have the responsibility diluted and make everyone pay with money and continued loss of freedom. My 3 cents.... Don NP: Alison Krauss ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:16:38 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: first albums, cds, etc. (NJC) 45: "Taste of Honey" -- - Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass. LP: "Bookends" -- Simon and Garfunkle at age 16. Second one was Blue, though for my 12th birthday some girls gave me a Monkees album. 12" Single: Never bought one. What are they? I have at least one EP -- Girl At Her Volcano, Rickie Lee Jones. I had some 8-tracks but didn't buy them. Got some free, including a Beatles one, a Dionne Warwick sings Bacharach one and a psychedelic hits of the '60s one. Not sure what my first CD was, but if I recall correctly it was "Dark Side of the Moon," Pink Floyd. Paul Ivice ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:16:22 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Subject: first albums, cds, etc. (NJC) OK, since I can still remember this, I'll bite. 45: Vanilla Fudge "You Keep Me Hangin On" LP: The Beatles "Sgt. Peppers Lonely Heart Club Band" 12" Single : New Order "Blue Monday" CD: Joni's "Court and Spark" 78: sorry, can't remember back that far :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:33:10 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: I love ya all! (njc) evian wrote: < ...I just had to tell y'all how great this list is. ...Anyway, I just had to tell you all that after I have checked out these bizarre lists and groups, the JMDL rocks!! Hell, when there is heated debate going on here, it would look like a Sunday school picnic with the Osmond family over (there)... Well, just had to tell you all that the JMDL is a really great place to be! > evian, THANKS! I (we?) needed that! *S* I agree wholeheartedly! this is the best forum I've seen! I feel sorry for the Stevie/FM fans as probably most of them joined hoping to enjoy the content relating to their favorite performers and instead got a faceful of non-related junk from a bunch of loudmouths. In only two months of membership I have seen so much great content on and about Joni here and I'm so glad Joni's music, life and times are not disregarded like that here. *S* pat NP: "Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere" - N. Young http://homepages.infoseek.com/~badwolff/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:42:01 -0500 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: first purchases (VLJC) i can't remember exact 1st purchases, but i'll mention a couple of early ones. vinyl lp the yes album, and my sisters and i pooled our money for jesus christ superstar. one of my best purchases ever 45" abc, jacksons, and dizzy, tommy roe are the earliest i can remember cassette roseanne cash - seven year ache (in a winnemucca truckstop in my first car with tape player) cd kate bush - sensual world and rickie lee jones - flying cowboys: i bought a cdplayer (kind of late) just because my two loves both had new albums out patrick np - adams - i was looking at the ceiling and then i saw the sky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:46:37 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Hey Jerry!! Jerry wrote: "Lycos has a new mp3 search engine on their site. I searched for joni and came up with quite an assortment." HEY Jerry- Where do you find these Joni mp3 files?? Thanx in advance. Michael Paz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:38:49 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: first albums, cds, etc. At 02:39 PM 2/16/99 -0600, evian wrote: >45: either "Heart of Glass" by Blondie, or this Peter Frampton 45 that >for the life of me I can't remember what it was called... 1978. >LP: either a really awful April Wine album, or this K-tel thingy called >"Right on" with all this disco and stuff on it, in grade one, 1977. >cassette: Fleetwood Mac "Mirage", 1983. >cassette single: "what you don't know" by Expose, 1989. >CD: "Shaking the Tree", Peter Gabriel, 1990. >12" Single: "Into the Groove" by Madonna, and "I wonder if I take you >Home" by Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam with Full Force, summer of 85. >Evian > > I'll play too: 45: it was either Hot Pants - James Brown or Suzie Q - CCR LP: Electric Lady Lady - Jimi Hendrix and Christmas and the Beads of Sweat - - L. Nyro CD: Replaced all my Joni CD's ( so I'm compulsive ) 12" single: the Osmonds remake of Hey Jude (just kidding - I want to see if your reading this ;-) Pump Up the Volume. It's the only one I own. 8 tracks!! I thought I was old but 8 tracks!!?? Not a one. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:53:23 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: first albums, etc. 45: Can't Explain> The Who LP: Kingston Trio Live at the Hungry I 8-track> Never had one never will CD> 29 Songs by Robert Johnson Casette> make my own First Live Concert: Them w/ Van Morrison Longshoremans Hall SF Ca. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:43:06 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - Legal Weed In a message dated 2/16/99 7:45:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, sp@olympus.net writes: << I would ask if you have any first-hand knowledge of the alcoholic beverage industry opposing legalization. In all my years in this business, including numerous legislative and political conferences, on all levels from local to state to federal, the subject has simply never come up. It's a *non-issue* in my circles. I'm really curious about who, specifically, in the alcoholic beverage industry, has come out on record with any position on this issue. >> Well, there hasn't been much need for lobbying against legalization of marijuana for quite some time. The last time there was any groundswell at all was during the Carter administration. Back in the '70s there was several organizations lobbying against legalization, and at least one of them was reportedly backed by some elements of the alcoholic beverage industry. I cannot give you specifics, but I knew another reporter who was did a story on the issue and that's what she told me. Of course, it almost goes without saying that IF the alcoholic beverage industry were still backing an anti-legalization effort with a lobbying group, it would do its best to make sure the industry could not be linked to the lobbying group Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:11:35 -0500 From: patrick leader Subject: weed (njc) couple of comments 1) pot was made illegal in the 30s as the result of a circulation hungry-newspaper editor and a publicity-hungry minister. there was a racist aspect to the crusade, as well. 2) the difference in health impact between cigarettes, alcohol and marijuana is not a matter of opinion, mostly, it's a matter of record. there has never, i repeat never been a fatal overdose of marijuana, and yet every year at pledgeweek a couple of freshmen die of alcoholic poisoning. addiction has a physical and psychological component; unlike alcohol and cigs, marijuana addiction has no physical component. not to discount the psychological aspect, just to point out facts. 3) the greatest cost of illegal marijuana is the credibility of our justice system. i think the massive cocaine epidemic of the 80s can be partly blamed on the ridiculous drugscare tactics of the 70s. the government told bullshitted us about pot, how could we believe a word they said about coke? but coke ruined and killed people. 4) my sister, former messy coke addict and alky, now brilliant, successful cpa approaching 11 years sober, favors complete legalization with enforcement money being redirected to education and treatment. i respect that, but don't quite agree. my hesitation has to do with drug-related behaviour in possible criminal situations. when la cops say they are terrified of running up against criminals who've just smoked angel dust, i'm inclined to believe them (and i'm not generous with la cops). so i guess my solution would by legalize drugs that don't increase the possibility of violent behaviour. unfortunately, under my scenario we'd have to outlaw booze. oh well, never said i had all the answers. patrick, who'd have gladly traded his violent drunk of a father for a nice pothead np - adams - hoodoo zephyr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:18:20 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: NJC - Legal Weed At 08:43 PM 2/16/99 EST, IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: >Well, there hasn't been much need for lobbying against legalization of >marijuana for quite some time. But Paul, just hours ago you wrote: "The biggest opponent to legalization of pot is the alcoholic beverage industry." This is a present tense statement. Are you now saying that there is not currently any lobbying on behalf of the alcoholic beverage industry against legalization? >Of course, it almost goes without saying that IF the alcoholic beverage >industry were still backing an anti-legalization effort with a lobbying group, >it would do its best to make sure the industry could not be linked to the >lobbying group Oh please! You're implying that the industry would be deceitful? No way. They'd be a lot more upfront about it, *if* that was their position. Scott, who would be glad to carry on this discussion in private but has just made his last post on this subject to the JMDL. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:04:59 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: first albums, cds, etc. Heather wrote: > I'll play too I guess I'll play too 45: either a Supremes or Four Tops, who remembers back to '66 (7th grade)?? LP: Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed CD: Karla Bonoff - Wild Hearts of the Young CD single: Sarah McLachlan - the one with Blue on it 8 track: I thought I was old but 8 tracks!!?? Not a one. Ditto for me too on that one Brian === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:46:48 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: weed (njc) patrick wrote: marijuana addiction has no physical component. I always understood(perhaps wrongly) that if there were physical withdrawals from a substance then there was a physical addiction componant to that substance, especially when it's us is no longer to get high but just to feel normal-which is what happens with long term use of marijuana. colin-who agrees that a pot head for a father would be preferable to a violent drunk for one but at least a violent drunk is easier to understand than just a violent one.(all three make lousy fathers) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:58:06 -0800 From: Mark-n-Travis Subject: Re: first albums, cds, etc. What was the first 45, LP, CD, cassette, etc. > that you bought? I was just talking about this today! (my first 45, that is) 45 - "Georgy Girl" by The Seekers LP - not sure - maybe "Dionne Warwick's Greatest Motion Picture Hits" (just loved "Theme from 'The Valley of the Dolls'") CD - Court & Spark - there weren't many out when I got my first CD player but I always swore this would be the first one cassette - I've only bought a handfull of pre-recorded cassettes in my entire life and I don't even recall what they were 12" single - either "Big Noise From Winnetka" - Bette Midler or "2,000 Miles" - The Pretenders never owned an 8-track player so never bought an 8 track tape Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:12:51 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - Legal Weed In a message dated 2/16/99 9:16:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, sp@olympus.net writes: << At 08:43 PM 2/16/99 EST, IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: >Well, there hasn't been much need for lobbying against legalization of >marijuana for quite some time. But Paul, just hours ago you wrote: "The biggest opponent to legalization of pot is the alcoholic beverage industry." This is a present tense statement. Are you now saying that there is not currently any lobbying on behalf of the alcoholic beverage industry against legalization? >> Scott, I guess what I'm saying is that a reliable source told me some time ago the alcoholic beverage industry was at one point the staunchest opponent to legalization, and I see no reason why that might have changed. Conversely, the tobacco industry, as I understand it, has participated in government-sponsored research into marijuana and there are widely known rumors that cigarette companies have copyrighted possible names for marijuana cigarettes in the event of legalization. >Of course, it almost goes without saying that IF the alcoholic beverage >industry were still backing an anti-legalization effort with a lobbying group, >it would do its best to make sure the industry could not be linked to the >lobbying group Oh please! You're implying that the industry would be deceitful? No way. They'd be a lot more upfront about it, *if* that was their position. >> I am certainly more cynical than naive, but WHY would you believe the industry would be upfront and not deceitful? Seems to me that the pattern of behavior among American industries is to be deceitful first and only upfront when they are caught at being deceitful or there is some PR value to be gained by being upfront. I don't see any PR value in the alcohol industry being upfront as anti- legalization, so why should I not think they are being deceitful? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:17:26 EST From: HankPh@aol.com Subject: Grovel I was off line for some time and was wondering if anyone would be willing to make copies of the last JM tape tree? I have a long list of items available for trade. I'd also like to get a copy of the PPV broadcast if someone would be willing to do that. Thanks, Hank ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:55:38 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: first albums, cds, etc. 45: Secret Agent Man LP: Meet the Beatles 8-track - Guess Who Cassette: Jon Anderson "Olias of Sunhillow" CD: U2 - Joshua Tree (I was a late bloomer) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:55:03 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: NJC - Legal Weed My only problem with legalized weed is: There will never be any food at parties. I be stuck in the corner rolling joints for the people that can't. Nobody will go home because everybody forgot where they left their keys. George Carlin will become a hot comedian again because he will get some new material. Nobody will ever get in a accident because they won't remember where they parked their cars. Deep four word conversations will come back. The Doobie Brothers will also make a comeback. Peace, Craig NP: Up In Smoke—Cheech & Chong I am against legalizing it but I am for medical purposes and fitting the punishment to the crime. I have to agree with Winfried in that most of the students that I come in contact who are actively using pot they are emotionally set back because of it. Whether we like it or not most kids involved in it today are recreational users at parties or hardcore users to block out emotional problems. Yeah, these could be generalizations and there are always a few that break the mode. But I work with kids and this is how it happens here. And to be honest it hasn't changed much from when I grew up in Long Beach, CA. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:17:37 +1100 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Firsts... (NJC) I'll play... 45- Doro "Whiter Shade of Pale" (1990) I was 16 L.P- Lionel Ritchie "All Night Long" (I think that's the name?!) (1984) I was 10 Cassette- Prince "Controversy" ( I bought it cheap from a flea market) C.D- Judas priest "Painkiller" (we didn't have a C.D player yet!!) (1990) again... 16. Music Video- Eurythmics "Eurythmics Live" 1st music ever given to me... cassette- Abba "The Singles" (a double cassette) (1982) I was 8 and living in Fiji. 1st music I gave away as a present... L.P- "Rick Astley" (buggered if I can remember the name) to my sister. BTW, I just wanted to clarify a comment I made when I ranted about Marilyn Manson... in regards to his response about putting the fun back into music, I didn't mean that his reasons were trite but his attitude was. There's nothing wrong with fun and I'm all for it... he just came across as a smartass (my perception here). I adore fun, fluff bands like Boney M, Spice Girls etc. Vanessa who advises people 'never' join the Dream Theater List as that's not a nice place to visit!! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:24:19 -0500 From: Anne Madden Subject: Unflattering TTT Review The following review appeared in the February/March of Dirty Linen Magazine, written by Mitch Ritter Joni Mitchell is back at the cosmetics counter. All her careful artifice and studied distant remove can't make even a glimpse of the world of flesh and consequences appear on her latest muddled canvas. "No Apologies" is Mitchell's stab at outrage. It is laughable as she seizes on the recent news items about U.S. sailors raping a local girl near an American Navy base. Mitchell, ever the artiste, condenses what might've been a laudable attack on Pacific Arena geopolitical conventional wisdom into a single verse that blurs the Okinawans who want our military off their island with corporate Japan, ever eager to satisfy its loyal customers. All of Mitchell's newest batch of synth-drenched half-baked ideas share a similar social detachment from any meaningful engagement. While Wayne Shorter's pungent sax lines trace vapor trails through Mitchell's dead air, drummer Brian Blade and turgid bassist Larry Klein cry out for the late Jaco Pastorius' lyrical bass ballet and Don Alias' lively Latin percussion. Joni Mitchell harnessed the best of Weather Report for her jazz imagination breakthrough Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. She has travelled deep into elite pretension to survey wealthiest suburbia's heart of darknesss on another breakthrough, the Hissing of Summer Lawns. Here on Taming the Tiger it is the carny barker as jived through by Femi Jiya during "Harlem in Havana" who gets closest to delivering a living line, while Joni Mitchell, Tigress of Siberia, phones in another techno remainder buffing her nails at the keyboards. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:22:54 -0500 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: I love ya all! (njc) Evian wrote: <> My experience exactly, Evian! Even though JMDL occasionally digresses into dumb feuds, I am always amazed at the calibre of sensativity and intelligence of Joni fans. I've tried the Dave Matthews discussion list (too impersonal), the U2 discussion list (over-extended), the Buffy Sainte-Marie discussion list (no discussion), the Sarah McLachlan discussion list (spam), the Nine Inch Nails discussion list (too kinky for me) and several others not worth mentioning. Joni definately has the best website and discussion list. When I switched internet servers last week I actually experienced withdrawal missing about 5 digests. E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:42:18 -0500 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: NJC - Legal Weed Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: And while I'm thinking about the Rolling Stone, I was reading the latest issue which featured yet another article on why marijuana should be legalized and had pictures of the "poor" victims who are doing jail time for marijuana possession and distribution...In all the years I've been reading RS, this is one topic they just won't let go of. Maybe that's being true to their generation, I don't know.... What do you guys think? The Declaration of Independence and Betsy Ross' flag are made from hemp. It was illegal for farmers NOT to grow hemp during the Revolutionary War because it was invaluable as a source of rope, paper, oil, medicine, etc., etc., etc. George Washington urged Thomas Jefferson to "save the seeds from India Hemp. It is more valuable than common Hemp" and entered in his diary on August 6, 1781: "Today I separated the Male Hemp from the Female Hemp." America's founders obviously smoked dope! Who would have ever thought marijuana would be decriminalized in Russia (1990) before it was in America? E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:58:09 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: first albums, cds, etc. I can only remember the first 45 I bought. Actually, I convinced my dad to buy it for me, as I was only about 9: It's My Party. But the first one I bought with my very own money was She Loves You. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:57:29 -0500 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: first albums, cds, etc Evian wrote: <> I can't remember the first 45, but how can I forget the day I bought my first two LPs - Carol King's Tapastry and The Beatles' White Album. I was 14 and it was the first head shop I'd ever been in. Also purchased a pair of rose-tinted granny glasses and banana incense and I swear that was the first time I ever got high! E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:21:49 -0800 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: 78,45,lp,cassette 78 Come Go Wtih Me, Dell Vikings 45 Venus, Frankie Avalon(Now that's Rock and Roll) LP Shelby Flint (anybody heard of her?) Cassette Mingus, Joni CD TTT,Joni (stayed w/vinyl as long as I could) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:33:41 EST From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Taliban's shame Subj: Talibans War on Women Date: 99-02-16 17:56:54 EST From: sazall@mindspring.com (Sarah Ziegler) To: Gellerray@aol.com (Raymond Pierre Geller), clee@spusd.k12.ca.us (Curtis Lee), HerronC@mdainc.com (Herron, Carla), mallison@g-net.net (Mary Allison) Everyone, What follows speaks for itself. Ray Hello humanist friends, It seemed to me that this was worth forwarding on... s. ps - if you have trouble reading Amnesty International literature, proceed with caution. >The Taliban's War on Women: > > > >**** Please sign at the bottom to support, and include your town. > >Then copy and e-mail to as many people as possible. > > > >If you receive this list with more than 50 names on it, please > >e-mail a copy of it to sara-bande@brandeis.edu > > > >Even if you decide not to sign, please be considerate and do not > >kill the petition. Thank you. It is best to copy rather than forward > >the petition. > > > >Melissa Buckheit, Brandeis University > > > > > > > >TEXT: > >The government of Afghanistan is waging a war upon women. The > >situation is getting so bad that one person in an editorial of the > >times compared the treatment of women there to the treatment of Jews > >in pre-Holocaust Poland. Since the Taliban took power in 1996, women > >have had to wear burqua and have been beaten and stoned in public for > >not having the proper attire, even if this means simply not having > >the mesh covering in front of their eyes. One woman was beaten to > >DEATH by an angry mob of fundamentalists for accidentally exposing > >her arm while she was driving. Another was stoned to death for trying > >to leave the country with a man that was not a relative. Women are > >not allowed to work or even go out in public without a male relative; > >professional women such as professors, trans-lators, doctors, > >lawyers,artists and writers have been forced from their jobs and > >stuffed into their homes, so that depression is becoming so > >widespread that it has reached emergency levels. > > > >There is no way in such an extreme Islamic society to know the > >suicide rate with certainty, but relief workers are estimating that > >the suicide rate among women, who cannot find proper medication and > >treatment for severe depression and would rather take their lives > >than live in such conditions, has in-creased significantly. Homes > >where a woman is present must have their windows painted so that she > >can never be seen by outsiders. They must wear silent shoes so that > >they are never heard. Women live in fear of their lives for the > >slightest misbehavior. Because they cannot work, those without male > >rela-tives or husbands are either starving to death or begging on the > >street, even if they hold Ph.D.'s. There are almost no medical > >facilities available for women, and relief workers, in protest, have > >mostly left the country,taking medicine and psychologists and other > >things necessary to treat the sky-rocketing level of depression among > >women. > > > >At one of the rare hospitals for women, a reporter found still, > >nearly lifeless bodies lying motionless on top of beds, wrapped in > >their burqua, unwilling to speak, eat, or do anything, but slowly > >wasting away. Others have gone mad and were seen crouched in corners, > >perpetually rocking or crying, most of them in fear. One doctor is > >considering, when what little medication that is left finally runs > >out, leaving these women in front of the president's residence as a > >form of peaceful protest. It is at the point where the term 'human > >rights violations' has become an understatement. Husbands have the > >power of life and death over their women relatives, especially their > >wives, but an angry mob has just as much right to stone or beat a > >woman, often to death, for exposing an inch of flesh or offending > >them in the slightest way. > > > >David Cornwell has told me that we in the United States should not > >judge the Afghan people for such treatment because it is a 'cultural > >thing', but this is not even true. Women enjoyed relative freedom, to > >work, dress generally as they wanted, and drive and appear in public > >alone until only 1996 -- the ra-pidity of this transition is the main > >reason for the depression and suicide; women who were once edu-cators > >or doctors or simply used to basic human freedoms are now severely > >restricted and treated as sub-human in the name of right-wing > >fundamentalist Islam. It is not their tradition or 'culture', but is > >alien to them, and it is extreme even for those cultures where > >fundamentalism is the rule. Besides, if we could excuse everything > >on cultural grounds, then we should not be appalled that the > >Carthaginians sacrificed their infant children, that little girls are > >circumcised in parts of Africa, that blacks in the deep south in the > >1930's were lynched, prohibited from voting, and forced to submit to > >unjust Jim Crow laws. > > > >Everyone has a right to a tolerable human existence, even if they are > >women in a Muslim country in a part of the world that Americans do > >not understand. If we can threaten military force in Kosovo in the > >name of human rights for the sake of ethnic Albanians, Americans can > >certainly express peaceful out-rage at the oppression, murder and > >injustice committed against women by the Taliban. > > > >************ STATEMENT: > > > >In signing this, we agree that the current treatment of women in > >Afghanistan is completely UNACCEPTABLE and deserves support and > >action by the people of the United States and other countries and > >their Governments and that the current situation in Afghanistan will > >not be tolerated. Women's Rights is not a small issue anywhere and > >it is UNACCEPTABLE for women in 1998 to be treated as sub-human and > >so much as property. Equality and human decency is a RIGHT not a > >freedom, whether one lives in Afghanistan or the United States.***** > > > >1) Florian G. Kaiser, Z=FCrich, Switzerland > >2) Vinzenz Morger, Z=FCrich, Switzerland > >3) Anne-Louise Bornstein, Basel, Switzerland > >4) Dianne Kiefer-Dicks, Basel, Switzerland > >5) Sarah Paris, San Francisco > >6) Mark Werlin, San Francisco > >7) Louise Vance, San Francisco > >8) Katrina Drabkin, San Francisco > >9) Deborah Magocsi, Brooklyn 10) Sarah Ziegler Allison, Atlanta GA 11) Charles Alllison, Atlanta GA 12) Raymond Geller - ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (rly-zb03.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.3]) by air-zb04.mail.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:56:54 -0500 Received: from smtp0.mindspring.com (smtp0.mindspring.com [207.69.200.30]) by rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA23831 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:56:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from KOUSER (user-38lcdnu.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.54.254]) by smtp0.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA13089; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:56:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001201be59ff$8dce6980$fe3656d1@KOUSER> From: "Sarah Ziegler" To: "Raymond Pierre Geller" , "Curtis Lee" , "Herron, Carla" , "Mary Allison" Subject: Talibans War on Women Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:56:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:39:53 EST From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Taliban's shame 2 (forgot my city--sorry) Subj: Talibans War on Women Date: 99-02-16 17:56:54 EST From: sazall@mindspring.com (Sarah Ziegler) To: Gellerray@aol.com (Raymond Pierre Geller), clee@spusd.k12.ca.us (Curtis Lee), HerronC@mdainc.com (Herron, Carla), mallison@g-net.net (Mary Allison) Everyone, What follows speaks for itself. Ray Hello humanist friends, It seemed to me that this was worth forwarding on... s. ps - if you have trouble reading Amnesty International literature, proceed with caution. >The Taliban's War on Women: > > > >**** Please sign at the bottom to support, and include your town. > >Then copy and e-mail to as many people as possible. > > > >If you receive this list with more than 50 names on it, please > >e-mail a copy of it to sara-bande@brandeis.edu > > > >Even if you decide not to sign, please be considerate and do not > >kill the petition. Thank you. It is best to copy rather than forward > >the petition. > > > >Melissa Buckheit, Brandeis University > > > > > > > >TEXT: > >The government of Afghanistan is waging a war upon women. The > >situation is getting so bad that one person in an editorial of the > >times compared the treatment of women there to the treatment of Jews > >in pre-Holocaust Poland. Since the Taliban took power in 1996, women > >have had to wear burqua and have been beaten and stoned in public for > >not having the proper attire, even if this means simply not having > >the mesh covering in front of their eyes. One woman was beaten to > >DEATH by an angry mob of fundamentalists for accidentally exposing > >her arm while she was driving. Another was stoned to death for trying > >to leave the country with a man that was not a relative. Women are > >not allowed to work or even go out in public without a male relative; > >professional women such as professors, trans-lators, doctors, > >lawyers,artists and writers have been forced from their jobs and > >stuffed into their homes, so that depression is becoming so > >widespread that it has reached emergency levels. > > > >There is no way in such an extreme Islamic society to know the > >suicide rate with certainty, but relief workers are estimating that > >the suicide rate among women, who cannot find proper medication and > >treatment for severe depression and would rather take their lives > >than live in such conditions, has in-creased significantly. Homes > >where a woman is present must have their windows painted so that she > >can never be seen by outsiders. They must wear silent shoes so that > >they are never heard. Women live in fear of their lives for the > >slightest misbehavior. Because they cannot work, those without male > >rela-tives or husbands are either starving to death or begging on the > >street, even if they hold Ph.D.'s. There are almost no medical > >facilities available for women, and relief workers, in protest, have > >mostly left the country,taking medicine and psychologists and other > >things necessary to treat the sky-rocketing level of depression among > >women. > > > >At one of the rare hospitals for women, a reporter found still, > >nearly lifeless bodies lying motionless on top of beds, wrapped in > >their burqua, unwilling to speak, eat, or do anything, but slowly > >wasting away. Others have gone mad and were seen crouched in corners, > >perpetually rocking or crying, most of them in fear. One doctor is > >considering, when what little medication that is left finally runs > >out, leaving these women in front of the president's residence as a > >form of peaceful protest. It is at the point where the term 'human > >rights violations' has become an understatement. Husbands have the > >power of life and death over their women relatives, especially their > >wives, but an angry mob has just as much right to stone or beat a > >woman, often to death, for exposing an inch of flesh or offending > >them in the slightest way. > > > >David Cornwell has told me that we in the United States should not > >judge the Afghan people for such treatment because it is a 'cultural > >thing', but this is not even true. Women enjoyed relative freedom, to > >work, dress generally as they wanted, and drive and appear in public > >alone until only 1996 -- the ra-pidity of this transition is the main > >reason for the depression and suicide; women who were once edu-cators > >or doctors or simply used to basic human freedoms are now severely > >restricted and treated as sub-human in the name of right-wing > >fundamentalist Islam. It is not their tradition or 'culture', but is > >alien to them, and it is extreme even for those cultures where > >fundamentalism is the rule. Besides, if we could excuse everything > >on cultural grounds, then we should not be appalled that the > >Carthaginians sacrificed their infant children, that little girls are > >circumcised in parts of Africa, that blacks in the deep south in the > >1930's were lynched, prohibited from voting, and forced to submit to > >unjust Jim Crow laws. > > > >Everyone has a right to a tolerable human existence, even if they are > >women in a Muslim country in a part of the world that Americans do > >not understand. If we can threaten military force in Kosovo in the > >name of human rights for the sake of ethnic Albanians, Americans can > >certainly express peaceful out-rage at the oppression, murder and > >injustice committed against women by the Taliban. > > > >************ STATEMENT: > > > >In signing this, we agree that the current treatment of women in > >Afghanistan is completely UNACCEPTABLE and deserves support and > >action by the people of the United States and other countries and > >their Governments and that the current situation in Afghanistan will > >not be tolerated. Women's Rights is not a small issue anywhere and > >it is UNACCEPTABLE for women in 1998 to be treated as sub-human and > >so much as property. Equality and human decency is a RIGHT not a > >freedom, whether one lives in Afghanistan or the United States.***** > > > >1) Florian G. Kaiser, Z=FCrich, Switzerland > >2) Vinzenz Morger, Z=FCrich, Switzerland > >3) Anne-Louise Bornstein, Basel, Switzerland > >4) Dianne Kiefer-Dicks, Basel, Switzerland > >5) Sarah Paris, San Francisco > >6) Mark Werlin, San Francisco > >7) Louise Vance, San Francisco > >8) Katrina Drabkin, San Francisco > >9) Deborah Magocsi, Brooklyn 10) Sarah Ziegler Allison, Atlanta GA 11) Charles Alllison, Atlanta GA 12) Raymond Geller, Belleville, IL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:55:25 -0500 From: "Marsha" Subject: JMDL partying Callin' all you'ins down here in these parts... We southerners are going to try to get together in Hotlanta this weekend for a Jennifer Kimball show (formerly of The Story with Jonatha Brooke, and has a newish CD out called "Veering From the Wave"), You can write me or the Hair Farmer if you're interested in seeing her with us on Saturday night. Marsha, with mouth watering for one of those fried green tomato sandwiches I'm getting at Mick's in 2 days ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:09:12 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: JMDL partying >Marsha, with mouth watering for one of those fried green >tomato sandwiches I'm getting at Mick's in 2 days Mawshaw, why don't y'all pick up Mick's recipe for aw cookbook...it sounds mighty tasty and we could call it "Scawlett's Hissing of Fried Green Tomatos" Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:44:51 +0100 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: first purchases (VLJC) Vinyl Lp Abba: "The Visitors" Cassette: Michael Jackson: "Thriller" Yes: "90125" 45" Tears For Fears: "Mad World" Winfried np: Incognito -- Inside Life ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:17:54 -0700 From: Catherine Turley Subject: RE: first album, etc. First 45: "Tell Me Something Good" by Rufus featuring Chaka Kahn, purchased with an advance on my allowance after seeing them perfom on a Bob Hope special on TV First LP: Roberta Flack's Killing Me Softly for my 11th birthday First 8 Track: Best of Carly Simon First CD: Sting's Dream of the Blue Turtles First Cassette: ALways made my own tapes--think it was a bargin bin version of Madama Butterfly ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:34:12 +0800 (PST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: first albums, cds, etc. My first foray into music-listening: 45s - Can't remember because my father used to buy for us and when I came of age, there were already cassettes then. I remember though that we have a DAVID NADIEN "Humoresque" album which is a duet of piano and violin. Very influential to me because that was when I decided I would like play a violin and become a violinist. LP - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. I did not attend class so I could listen to it the entire day. Cassette - America's "You Can Do Magic"... Good vocals and great melodies. "Love on the Vine" is still my favorite track after all these years. CDs - Philip Glass's LOW SYMPHONY, Ethel Waters' CABIN IN THE SKY, and Shirley Horn's I LOVE PARIS. The next day I bought Ella Fitzgerald's THE RODGERS AND HART SONGBOOK. This was in 1995 when I finally bought my own CD player and I started buying CDs for myself and not necessarily for my family's consumption (I am single, by the way, in case you think *L*). Thesefour CDs became 500 in a year's time and now my family are complaining that our house is about to collapse because of my CD collection that seems to give birth everyday. *g* Thanks for making me remember things. Joseph (who still can't fathom Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunnaire) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #81 ************************* There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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