From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #78
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
Precedence: bulk
JMDL Digest Monday, February 15 1999 Volume 04 : Number 078
The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes
by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery
username: jimdle password: siquomb
-------
The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more.
-------
The JMDL website can be found at and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
==========
TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
HoSL ["paul tyrer" ]
Re: HoSL [catman ]
AOL Warning...? [DreamZvil@aol.com]
Re: Joni depicted on Saturday Night Live [FMYFL@aol.com]
Re: Joni depicted on SNL [Alan ]
Audio philes NJC ["Tube" ]
Favourite albums, Hejira HDCD remaster [Howard Wright ]
Lucinda (NJC) [RMuRocks@aol.com]
Re: Audio philes NJC [RMuRocks@aol.com]
Re: HoSL [Mark-n-Travis ]
Re: Audio philes NJC [Mark-n-Travis ]
Re: Audio philes NJC [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
Re: Audio philes NJC [Mark-n-Travis ]
Re: Audio philes NJC [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
Re: HoSL ["paul tyrer" ]
Re: HoSL [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
beyond the US? [Bounced Message ]
Word from Leonard Cohen (NJC) [Bounced Message ]
Re: JMDL Digest V4 #77 [Bounced Message ]
Plug Of The Week #6 ["Peter Holmstedt" ]
Re: beyond the US? ["Marsha" ]
Re: Audio philes/Billie Holiday NJC [Mark-n-Travis ]
Happy Lupercalia - NJC ["bern.gallagher" ]
Re: beyond the US? [Randy Remote ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:58:50 -0000
From: "paul tyrer"
Subject: HoSL
Hi everyone
Today I've seen a coupla posts about HoSL and its slating by the critics.
I've always understood the idea that it was JM's venture into jazz that
provoked the slating, but I also think it was disliked because it was
conceptualized around the position of women in 1970s America (Sorry if this
is really old hat to you oldbies, but I'm on a newbie roll here!) - their
effective containment by men and society and their simultaneous, dangerous,
ability to break free from the patriarchal ties that bind... This subject
matter wasn't something that the inevitably male critic of the 70s had any
interest in, unlike JM's more directly personal 'I lost my baby' stuff,
which is all about men!
What does anyone else think??
Paul X
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:47:52 +0000
From: catman
Subject: Re: HoSL
It was HOSL that first got me into Joni. I heard The Jungle Line on Radio
Victory, Portsmouth in 75. It was one of those rare occurrences where I
instsntly liked something. The only other album I bought on the strength of one
listen was dreams by Grace Slick, in 80.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:01:57 EST
From: DreamZvil@aol.com
Subject: AOL Warning...?
Hello all ....
I haven't had a chance to check this out yet. Sounds legit - is it?
- -Susan C.-
______________________________________________________________________________
____________________
From A forwarded message:
Hello to all my AOL friends... Today while I was online an AOL Billing
information error screen popped up on my screen.
It looked very legit. It said my billing cycle was up and
they
needed more info.
It had numerous boxes for me to fill out. I.e.: Name,
address,
Town, State. On one side and Credit Card Info on the other... Card,
Number,
Expiration Date, Card holder name...
The upper right hand box was whited out I could not X out of
this.
It had a "Submit" box to click. When I did that (I had not
filled
out ANY info) . It gave me an error requesting my name.
I called AOL. THIS IS NOT AOL. IT LOOKS JUST LIKE "MEMBER
SERVICE'S"
INFO ... do not ... DO NOT FILL ANYTHING IN. YOU MUST
"CONTROL,
ALT, DELETE AND GET OUT OF AOL AND RESIGN ON"...
PLEASE INFORM ANY OF YOUR OTHER BUDDIES ONLINE.
I RECEIVED TWO OF THEM. PLEASE. IT'S SOMEONE TRYING TO GET
YOUR
INFO. IT IS NOT AOL..................
And one more...
If you get a flashing IM, DO NOT reply or delete,
but sign off immediately and re-sign on!
Then change your password immediately.
If you are unable to sign on, call AOL !!!
The number is
1-800-827-6364
The Flashing IM is a password stealer.
This has been confirmed by AOL.
PLEASE FORWARD TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW ON AOL!!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:15:04 EST
From: FMYFL@aol.com
Subject: Re: Joni depicted on Saturday Night Live
Thanks a lot Marsha :)
<>
<>
I wasn't totally focused on the SNL skit, and I thought they might have been
poking fun at Joni. Thanks for clarifying their message.
Also I know there's a lot of Lucinda Williams fans on the list and I heard
that she's going to be the musical guest next week on SNL.
Later,
Jimmy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:26:53 -0600
From: Alan
Subject: Re: Joni depicted on SNL
Yes! This was the best laugh I've had from Saturday Night Live in a
long time. Somebody, clearly, loves Joni and thinks Jewel should be
(metaphorically) fed to the tigers.
After spending $15 on Jewel's latest album and having my brain assaulted
with, for the most part, some of the worst poetry I've seen in a long
time, I thought this skit was perfect.
(advance apologies to any Jewel fans... just my opinion)
Alan
Marsha wrote:
> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:10:06 -0500
> From: "Marsha"
> Subject: Joni depicted on SNL
>
> I just saw Joni get depicted on Saturday Night Live
> in the cartoon skit "TV Funhouse" a bizarre twist
> on real audio snips from entertainment sources.
> A blond lass was reading poetry, morphed into Jewel,
> was eaten by a TIGER and became Joni singing
> the looped "Don't it always seem to go, you don't
> know what you've got 'til it's gone...".
> It was cute...
> Jewel morphing into Joni and the animal props
> began dancing happily. The message was the
> latest incarnations of Joni suck.
> You guys on the West Coast ought to try to catch it
> 30 minutes into the show tonight.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:04:47 +0100
From: "Tube"
Subject: Audio philes NJC
> I remember reading an article regarding the production of "Babylon
Sisters"
> (from Gaucho) where they said the quest for perfection in the recorded
sound
> almost became prohibitive...the last 10 seconds, where the background
vocals
> sing 'you've got to shake it baby, you've got to shake i-i-i-i-t...took
over
> 300 takes to get the vocal blend just right!!
>Part of what bugged me about 'Gaucho' was that it sounded so slick &
manufactured. I guess that's part of why I don't care for 'the Dan'. I
know Joni's a perfectionist too but her spirit & feeling speak to me
clearly on every record. I don't detect much of anything underneath all
that gloss on Steely Dan's records. But then I haven't listened to them
like I've listened to Joni for 25 years so I could be wrong. Judging
from the number of people who's opinions I respect on this list, I
>probably am.
My favourite records are one's with 'a lot going on' (as somebody put it)
Stuff like the 'Diamond Dogs' title-track, or 'Big Brother' off the same
album, Alice Cooper middle period, the Tina Turner Spector 'River deep
Mountain High' or, yes, 'Jungle Line'. I think crisp production values in
the studio are important, particulary if there's a lot going on on the
track, but it's not essential, as a good track will carry an ambience to it
if the artists and engineers are really cooking.
Babylon Sister is very slick, but it's also a very clever song in every
point of it's execution, and I love it.
Slick and sterile production 25 years ago didn't hurt the music a bit. Most
bands good enough to be signed had an originality that couldn't be
formulised. Check out 'A Nod's as good as a Wink...' by The Faces - Very
crisp full sound and you can hear every drumbeat but it rocks like a live
set. The sleeve notes thanked Glyn Johns for his excellent production, but
also proclaimed "We stomped all over that studio sterility."
The problem today is too much formulaic 'pop music' in the charts. With
today's slick production and hi-tech recording methods, the aural quality is
so good that the bland commercial repetetive transparancy of most chart
music comes through with painful clarity.
If TTT sounds muddy to those of us with hi-fi's good enough to spot it, then
perhaps it's an indication of Joni heading out on a Spectoresque 'Back To
Mono' crusade'? A big, muddy, 'Wall of Sound approach? You have to be good
to pull this off.
The old cliche of early rock and rollers recording in the toilet for an echo
chamber may be an exaggeration, but perhaps for a good band, that's all
that's needed.
Actually, for those of us who have NOT got good Hi-fi's (like me) it's
always nice to upgrade to a new system and hear all the stuff carefully
recorded on our favourite LPs that we couldn't hear before on our old
system. Sometimes it's almost like hearing a new song.
>Oh well. We Taureans are a stubborn lot!
>Mark in Seattle
No, it's not Taureans, it's Seattleans (ie Microsoft employees)
Back to Flusho!
Tube (showing his age so much that he talks about LPs and records, not CDs)
(of which he only owns two!)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:06:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: Howard Wright
Subject: Favourite albums, Hejira HDCD remaster
John Wasak wrote:
>I just picked up the re-master (HDCD) of Hejira today. The thing that
>caught my eye immediately was that only three of the tracks have the same
>timings. All the others on the re-master are different, some by quite a
>bit. For example, the older CD times the song "Hejira" at 6:35 while the
>HDCD has a timing of 6:42. Could anyone explain why the timings of the
>songs are different?
It could be that the length of the fade-ins and fade-outs is a little
different on the remasters. You could easily add 5 seconds or so this way,
although you would barely notice it as the track would be so quiet when
the "bonus seonds" showed up!
But hey, if you get 7 more seconds of tracks like Hejira, it's still gotta
be worth it!
Suzanne wrote:
>To add to the confusion, my utmost pick for favorite Joni album is
>unquestionably FTR. I guess this just goes to show how personally she
>can affect each and every one of us. I do agree that Hejira is also
>exceptional. I find trying to decide between the two a bit like the old
>apples and oranges cliche.
Many would agree with you! Choosing a *single* favourite album is not
easy. FTR, Hejira, Hissing, Blue, Court and Spark are consistently among
the most popular choices for "top album". The vote on Les' JMDL site
currently has Hissing just ahead of Hejira (25 votes to 24). FTR is close
behind with 22. These three have been within a gnat's whisker of each
other ever since the vote started.
Not far behind we have Blue (16), C&S (15) and, gaining ground, TTT (14
votes).
Howard
*******************************************************
Howard.Wright@ed.ac.uk
The way I perceived the dissonance was :
These chords are really mean
I like these chords !
Frank Zappa
********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:47:22 EST
From: RMuRocks@aol.com
Subject: Lucinda (NJC)
In a message dated 2/14/99 10:23:22 AM Central Standard Time, FMYFL@aol.com
writes:
<< Also I know there's a lot of Lucinda Williams fans on the list and I heard
that she's going to be the musical guest next week on SNL. >>
Jimmy, thanks in advance for the heads up - I'll try to tolerate the lame
comedy long enough to make it to Lucinda...
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:51:40 EST
From: RMuRocks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Audio philes NJC
In a message dated 2/14/99 11:13:05 AM Central Standard Time, Tube writes:
<< With
today's slick production and hi-tech recording methods, the aural quality is
so good that the bland commercial repetetive transparancy of most chart
music comes through with painful clarity.>>
A great example of the above would be Journey - their records always "sounded"
good, but they were awful!
<>
And also pick up on the HDCD versions - when I heard the HDCD of "Shadows &
Light", I felt like I was hearing it for the first time, so much stuff jumped
out at me (of course, prior to that I'd had an old cassette recording, so the
differences were that much more dramatic).
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:03:42 -0800
From: Mark-n-Travis
Subject: Re: HoSL
paul tyrer wrote:
>
> Hi everyone
>
> Today I've seen a coupla posts about HoSL and its slating by the critics.
> I've always understood the idea that it was JM's venture into jazz that
> provoked the slating, but I also think it was disliked because it was
> conceptualized around the position of women in 1970s America (Sorry if this
> is really old hat to you oldbies, but I'm on a newbie roll here!) - their
> effective containment by men and society and their simultaneous, dangerous,
> ability to break free from the patriarchal ties that bind... This subject
> matter wasn't something that the inevitably male critic of the 70s had any
> interest in, unlike JM's more directly personal 'I lost my baby' stuff,
> which is all about men!
>
> What does anyone else think??
I think you make a very good point. The feminist slant of the album
probably did play some part in the lukewarm reception it got. And no
matter what Joni wants to call it or whether she likes it or not, imo
that is a fitting adjective to describe HOSL; feminist.
I've always felt that many viewed HOSL as too radical a shift from the
accessability of Court & Spark. I have a theory that the success of C&S
was a fluke. The public's tastes in popular music just happened to
coincide with what Joni was into at that time. To me C&S is a good
example of popular culture approaching the level of art. So a lot of
people who were thinking 'Hey, Joni is really cool!' were expecting
another well-made, better-than average album of potential hits. What
they got was something else. When I first heard HOSL I remember
thinking it sounded kind of stark & detached compared to everything Joni
had done before it. I'm not coming up with the right words to describe
my reaction to it but I do remember that I was rather puzzled by it.
I'm not sure I would have stuck with it (and with Joni) if the words
hadn't intrigued me so much. The meaning of the lyrics wasn't
immediately evident and they were veering away from the confessional
mode toward social commentary. They required some interpretation,
mental energy and critical examination of the world around me. The more
I listened to the record the more it grew on me musically. Now 24 years
after its release, I still find new things in it. And to me that's
clear evidence of it's greatness. But in 1975 the average American
music consumer (just like now) didn't particularly want to be that
challenged by what they listened to. They wanted another Court &
Spark. Little did they know that a snowball has a better chance of
surviving hellfire than they do of ever getting 'another Court & Spark'
out of Joni.
Mark in Seattle
HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY TO ALL IN JMDL-LAND!!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:57:08 -0800
From: Mark-n-Travis
Subject: Re: Audio philes NJC
Tube wrote:
I think crisp production values in
> the studio are important, particulary if there's a lot going on on the
> track, but it's not essential, as a good track will carry an ambience to it
> if the artists and engineers are really cooking.
I don't disagree with you on this. I appreciate a well-recorded album
although I may not be as discerning as some people are. What I was
referring to was tinkering with the actual performance itself ie
recording 300 or so takes to the point where (to me) it becomes almost
dehumanized. I think an obsessive quest for 'perfection' can diminish
the art of a piece of music or painting or what have you. I like music
to have at least some sense of spontaneity to it.
> Babylon Sister is very slick, but it's also a very clever song in every
> point of it's execution, and I love it.
I occasionally appreciate slick & clever. Steely Dan's brand of it just
never appealed to me, I guess. It's purely a subjective matter of
taste. But I will say that most of the music that appeals to me has
something more than slick & clever to it. I think that's why I prefer
Billie Holiday to other singers of her era that maybe had prettier
voices. I don't think crisp, good production would have hurt Billie's
records one bit. Her heart & soul would have come through regardless as
Joni's does. It's too bad there wasn't better recording technology in
the 30's, 40's & 50's. But I don't see Billie doing 300 takes to get a
vocal 'just right'.
> The problem today is too much formulaic 'pop music' in the charts. With
> today's slick production and hi-tech recording methods, the aural quality is
> so good that the bland commercial repetetive transparancy of most chart
> music comes through with painful clarity.
I certainly have to agree with you here. This is part of the reason I
don't buy much new music. So much of it sounds the same to me.
> If TTT sounds muddy to those of us with hi-fi's good enough to spot it, then
> perhaps it's an indication of Joni heading out on a Spectoresque 'Back To
> Mono' crusade'?
I was at a friends a while back and he had just hooked up a brand new
Dolby digital receiver. Ok, I'm not an audiophile, I don't really know
if a Dolby digital is a piece or good equipment or a piece of crap.
Anyway, this friend (who loves music & has always tried to have the
best audio equipment he can afford) knowing I love Joni, puts on 'Love
Puts on a New Face & cranks it up pretty loud. To me it sounded like
Joni was in the room playing & singing just for us. Ok, so maybe I
don't have finely tuned ears for good stereo reproduction. But to me it
sounded just fine.
>
> No, it's not Taureans, it's Seattleans (ie Microsoft employees)
I only know one ex-Microsoft employee intimately and she can be pretty
stubborn. Maybe there's something to what you say.
>
> Back to Flusho!
> Tube (showing his age so much that he talks about LPs and records, not CDs)
> (of which he only owns two!)
I heard a half-speed master of Joan Baez's 'Diamonds & Rust' once many
years ago. I think it was the best sound quality I've ever heard from a
record. I always wanted to hear the half-speed master of 'Court &
Spark'. Maybe in another lifetime....
Mark in Seattle
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:36:01 EST
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: Audio philes NJC
In a message dated 2/14/99 3:01:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark-n-
travis@worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Her heart & soul would have come through regardless as
Joni's does. It's too bad there wasn't better recording technology in
the 30's, 40's & 50's. But I don't see Billie doing 300 takes to get a
vocal 'just right'. >>
No, it's more likely that the way Billie was junked up, she would have settled
for one about five takes before she got to "just right."
Paul I
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:01:03 -0800
From: Mark-n-Travis
Subject: Re: Audio philes NJC
IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/14/99 3:01:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark-n-
> travis@worldnet.att.net writes:
>
> << Her heart & soul would have come through regardless as
> Joni's does. It's too bad there wasn't better recording technology in
> the 30's, 40's & 50's. But I don't see Billie doing 300 takes to get a
> vocal 'just right'. >>
>
> No, it's more likely that the way Billie was junked up, she would have settled
> for one about five takes before she got to "just right."
> Paul I
Billie wasn't always 'junked up'. By all accounts she had made dozens
of recordings before she ever touched heroin. Booze & reefer, yes but
no more than a lot of people in her time & place. Unless you know
something about the subject in question I strongly suggest you don't
make pat statements like that.
Mark in Seattle
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:14:27 EST
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: Audio philes NJC
In a message dated 2/14/99 5:01:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark-n-
travis@worldnet.att.net writes:
<<
Billie wasn't always 'junked up'. By all accounts she had made dozens
of recordings before she ever touched heroin. Booze & reefer, yes but
no more than a lot of people in her time & place. Unless you know
something about the subject in question I strongly suggest you don't
make pat statements like that.
Mark in Seattle
>>
Well, if you're going to split hairs, fine. I didn't necessarily mean only
heroin by my use of "junked up."
Whatever her drugs of choice may have been at any particular moment, that is
not the type of influence that is conducive to recording studio dedication and
"perfection."
Besides, to me, it is her imperfections that make Billie more real. And hers
was a style of music that did not require an attempt at "perfection."
Paul I
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:38:03 -0000
From: "paul tyrer"
Subject: Re: HoSL
- -----Original Message-----
From: MDESTE1@aol.com
To: paul@tyrer23.freeserve.co.uk
Date: 14 February 1999 21:15
Subject: Re: HoSL
>What on earth are you trying to say. HOSL isnt about anything close to what
>you seem to have responded to at least in a theme sense.
Well let me give some examples to support my argument.
HoSL features, according to my take on it, some decidedly straightforward
stories of
the containment of women. Just think about Edith,'snowblind' to the
Kingpin's crimes and
at the same time, a woman caught - she 'dare not look away'. And there's
also his ex-lovers who become passive in the extreme, so much so that he has
(metaphorically) taken over their basic functions: 'women
he has taken grow old too soon/ he tilts their tired faces gently to the
spoon'. And then there's the male marking his boundaries in which he keeps
his woman in HoSL itself: 'he built her a barbed-wire fence to keep out the
unknown and on every metal fence just a little blood of his own'; not to
mention the rather sinister: 'He bought her a diamond for her *throat* / he
*put* her in a ranch house on the hill / she could see the valley bar-b-qs
from her windowsill' - this is a fancy place, but it's still a prison (the
diamond seems to me almost literally to be 'a choker' - the diamond is for
her throat, not her neck). And then there's the whole of Harry's House bar
the end (I won't quote). And in IFtKoMS there's a contrast between the
dreary containment of older women with the freedom that makes younger women
sexually-available-to-men ('under neon signs a girl was in bloom, and a
woman was fading in a suburban room'). And, arguably, SoSC talks of how
bolshy, difficult women get contained: ('friends have told her not so proud,
neighbours trying to sleep and yelling "not so loud", lovers in anger, block
of ice'). More personally, JM talks regretfully about the broader social
containment of women like herself - via the demand to always try to look
good - in Sweet Bird ('I lay down golden and woke up vanishing' ... / 'all
these vain promises on beauty jars').
Balanced with all this, though, is the womanly freedom that JM herself
celebrates. Self-assertion against men is the heart that powers Don't
Interrupt the Sorrow, she celebrates her own youthful freedom in the IFtKoMS
quote above; she also highlights Edith's own (however compromised) power
(the Kingpin also 'dare not look away'). This freedom is most obviously
there in the woman's final decision to leave in Harry's House: 'to tell him
like she did today just what he could do with Harry's house and Harry's
take-home pay'.
PX
NP - In a low cut blouse she brings the beer, Rousseau paints a jungle
flower behind her ear /those cannibals of shuck and jive they'll eat a
working girl like her alive.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:23:45 EST
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: HoSL
In a message dated 2/14/99 5:42:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
paul@tyrer23.freeserve.co.uk writes:
<<
Balanced with all this, though, is the womanly freedom that JM herself
celebrates. Self-assertion against men is the heart that powers Don't
Interrupt the Sorrow, she celebrates her own youthful freedom in the IFtKoMS
quote above; she also highlights Edith's own (however compromised) power
(the Kingpin also 'dare not look away'). This freedom is most obviously
there in the woman's final decision to leave in Harry's House: 'to tell him
like she did today just what he could do with Harry's house and Harry's
take-home pay'. >>
I agree that HoSLo is less accessible than Court and Spark because of its
theme regarding both the isolation and containment of women and their roles in
'70s America.
I think Paul T. gave us an excellent analysis in detail of the album, whose
theme always has been defined by the lines from the title song:
"He put up a barbed wire fence
To keep out the unknown
And on every metal thorn
Just a little blood of his own
She patrols that fence of his
To a latin drum
And the hissing of summer lawns
...
He gave her his darkness to regret
And good reason to quit him
He gave her a roomful of Chippendale
That nobody sits in
Still she stays with a love of some kind
It's the lady's choice
The hissing of summer lawns"
Paul Ivice
NP: "People say we got it made, don't they know we're so afraid.
I-i-i-solation.
WE're afraid to be alone
Everybody got to have a home.
I-i-i-solation.
Just a boy and a little girl
tryin' to change the whole wide world.
I-i-i-solation.
The world is just a little town.
Everybody trying to put us down.
I-i-i-solation
I don't expect you to understand
after you've caused so much pain
but then again you're not to blame
you're just a human, a victim of the insane.
We're afraid of everyone
Afraid of the sun
I-i-i-solation
The sun wil never disappear
but the world may not have many years
I-i-i-solAAAAAAtion."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:33:55 -0700
From: Bounced Message
Subject: beyond the US?
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:47:50 +0200
From: "Fr=?ISO-8859-1?B?6WTp?=ric Excoffier"
Hi every body
I'm Francois from Paris "in France, they kiss on main street".
My english is not as fluent as I l'd like, to read all the messages of the
list.
Just one thing :
All of you american fans are so lucky cause of the Joni tour.
One of my dream is to see her on stage. I missed the New York concert.
Does someone know if a European tour is planned ???
It would be so great.
Francois
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:49:01 -0700
From: Bounced Message
Subject: Word from Leonard Cohen (NJC)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:31:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark Klempner
"I feel . . . that were in a very shabby moment . . . . I see everybody
holding on in their individual way to an orange crate, to a piece of wood,
and we're passing each other in this swollen river that has pretty well
taken down all the landmarks, and pretty well over overturned everything
we've got. And people insist, under the circumstances, on describing
themselves as 'liberal' or 'conservative.' It seems to me completely mad."
Leonard Cohen, 1998. Excerpted from an interview in the curent Utne Reader.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:50:13 -0700
From: Bounced Message
Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #77
From: "Tube"
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:45:55 +0100
>Kakki wrote:
< Could it be that the beats were considered too obscure as a group and
that it wasn't until Kennedy and other leaders championed (and
therefore, sanctioned) new ideals that it became more mainstream?
of course it was... (obscure, that is) and even though folk music
reached it's apex of popularity in that time we were still in the
minority socially and musicwise... as you know, the real crossover came
from Dylan, first as his songs by P,P&M hit the top of the charts and
then when he broke out the strat at newport...
< You've mentioned the SDS a few times here. At the point I learned
about them (around 1969) they seemed to have had a reputation for
violence to achieve their ends. (I actually had to do a term paper in
Government class in 1970 researching them!) My question (just out of
curiousity) is whether they initially were as "radical" as they came to
be known later? >
actually, I learned about them around then too! I didn't know anything
about Hayden's gang when I was *at* the Cellar... probably because we
weren't documenting it... but living it; and also because they didn't
become all that well known nationally until later. although I knew
nothing of the SDS, I did hear rumblings that a prior incarnation of the
Cellar had 'been closed down' under less than ideal circumstances with
wisperings about drugs... but then you know how rumblings and wisperings
go... frankly, at my young naive age all kinds of political intrigue
could have been going on right under my nose and I would have been
clueless... I was just there for >the music.
Kakki, Pat and others,
I'm currently subscribed to 'The Sixties List' which carries a lot of
good discussion on sixties radicalism and has recently started a thread
on musical influences and associations with the protest movements of the
time. Perhaps most of already know of this list, but for those that
don't, as a taster, I'll just paste in a posting from last week:
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- -------
"(1)
From: Joe McDonald =20
Tony Edmonds wrote:
> I haven't had a chance to go through the music lists yet. Are the =
lyrics to
> "Where have all the Flowers Gone" on any of them? If not, does anyone =
know
> where I might find them?
>
> Tony Edmonds
> Ball State Univ.
Sing Out ! Magazine. cheers, cjm
-- "The eldest son wont leave home nor cook soup. The ozone layer =
thins
.003 milliliters more. The wise person bends like bamboo in the wind." =
Me
Ching.
country joe Home Pg
country joe's tribute to Florence Nightingale
Berkeley Vietnam Veterans Memorial
(2)
From: epm2@lehigh.edu (TED MORGAN)
Tony, Check the wonderful compilation of folk lyrics put together by =
Peter
Blood-Patterson, "A Song Shall Rise," published by Sing Out! I can =
help
with an address if you need one. A book that should be on all =
families'
bookshelves, if there's any music going on.
Ted Morgan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:34:01 +0100
From: "Peter Holmstedt"
Subject: Plug Of The Week #6
Hi there,
Jackson Browne's brother Severin ( a great artist in his
own right! ) just turned me on to the debut album by
a friend of his :
Wendy Conrad - Ghosts That Aren't Mine ( Go Girl Music )
"Ghosts That Aren't Mine" is a modernized tribute to
traditional roots music with influental touches of Patty
Loveless and Joni Mitchell. When asked about her
songwriting Wendy admits : "My truest self is in my
music. I live my songs". And with her rich, provocative
voice, her listeners are led through the textured landscapes
of her life, mind and heart.
Relocating to L.A. from Nashville in 1994, Wendy has been
captivating audiences wherever she performs, with her real
gift for melody and making personal feelings seem
universal.
The debut album is co-produced with veteran Ed Tree. It
marks the culmination of Wendy's abilities, his expertise
and intuition, and a flow of the unexpected turn of events.
If you feel like checking out this wonderful album, you can
contact Go Girl Music at :
PO Box 3387
El Segundo
CA 90245 - 3387
Phone: 310 - 533 - 2350
Email: wendconrad@aol.com
You won't be disappointed!
Take care,
Peter
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:54:33 -0500
From: "Marsha"
Subject: Re: beyond the US?
>I'm Francois from Paris "in France, they kiss on main street".
>My english is not as fluent as I l'd like, to read all the messages of the
>list.
>
>Just one thing :
>All of you american fans are so lucky cause of the Joni tour.
>One of my dream is to see her on stage. I missed the New York concert.
>
>Does someone know if a European tour is planned ???
> It would be so great.
Hi, Francois.
No plans announced for Joni in France,
but Gino Vannelli is coming your way 4/1-4/2 at
the New Morning Theater...
How I would love to see him...
Ah, April in Paris...
Calgon....take me away...
Marsha
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:38:58 -0800
From: Mark-n-Travis
Subject: Re: Audio philes/Billie Holiday NJC
IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/14/99 5:01:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark-n-
> travis@worldnet.att.net writes:
> >>
> Well, if you're going to split hairs, fine. I didn't necessarily mean only
> heroin by my use of "junked up."
> Whatever her drugs of choice may have been at any particular moment, that is
> not the type of influence that is conducive to recording studio dedication and
> "perfection."
> Besides, to me, it is her imperfections that make Billie more real. And hers
> was a style of music that did not require an attempt at "perfection."
I'm sure she wanted her records to sound as good as possible. There are
alternate takes that exist for many of her recordings and they weren't
slap-dash affairs. And you can't tell me that people like Becker &
Fagan, the Beatles and others who did amazing things in recording
studios didn't on occasion use some kind of drugs in the process. Maybe
cocaine makes people more knit-picky than smack.
I don't mean to jump all over you, Paul. This is a pet peeve of mine
concerning certain artists. It's kind of like those people Joni talks
about in Turbulent Indigo, 'talking about the madhouse, talking about
the ear'. Mention Billie Holiday to a lot of people & they'll say, 'oh
yeah, she was that junkie that Diana Ross played in that movie'. Never
mind that she was one of the greatest jazz singers that ever lived.
Never mind the fact that she left behind an amazing and rich legacy of
recorded music that has left an indellible mark on American music. No,
forget all that. She was that messed up, used & abused junkie. The
movie 'Lady Sings the Blues' was mostly Hollywood fabrication. Billie's
'autobiography' of the same name was also full of fabrication &
exaggeration. I believe the general consensus is that the book was
created to be as sensational as possible to sell as many copies as
possible. Whether that was Billie's idea, William Dufty's idea (her
'co-author) or the publisher's idea, I don't know. But everything else
I've read about her pretty much dismisses it as mostly BS.
Ok, enough about Billie. Sorry for the bandwidth but obviously I love
Billie's music and I just couldn't let that one go by.
Mark in Seattle
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:51:37 -0800
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Day with Shana (NJC)
Happy Valentine's Day everyone!
I just returned from a great day in the sunshine listening to Shana Morrison
and her band Caledonia at Muldoon's in Newport Beach with my friend Paul and
the Dulsons. The concert was free, being underwritten by the venerable firm
of Bailey's Irish Cream. (Mr. Dulson was one of the music trivia contest
winners and won a very nice Bailey's driving cap ;-) It was squished in,
standing room only and a very mixed audience of all ages. Mama Janet Planet
was also in attendance. Shana and band were spectacular. They played a
number of traditional Irish tunes, Van's "Into the Mystic" and "Beautiful
Vision", along with several original songs from their CD. Afterward we got
to meet her and get CDs signed.
Shana was profiled in yesterday's L.A. Times Orange County edition by Mike
Boehm who describes the album as "flitting between melancholy liquor-stoked
lust, romantic longing and airy moments of fun - showing a command of blues,
country and soul on songs that summon up the likes of the Wallflowers,
Natalie Merchant, Sheryl Crow and Bonnie Raitt."
Boehm tried to interview Van for the article but notes that his request for
a few moments on the telephone with him were predictably futile. Shana says
that Van has almost no tolerance for music he doesn't like, and even furrows
his brow and storms out of the room on listening to some of her own tunes.
He apparently had a fit when she expressed wanting to go into either
business or law upon graduating from college and swept her up touring with
him for a few years instead. She does, however, occasionally work a day gig
as a paralegal now, (which greatly amused me!).
Her album is due for national and international distribution next month or
may be ordered through her website at http://www.shanamorrison.com It's a
worthy addition to the record shelf.
Kakki
NP: Shana - Can't Hold On
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:42:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "bern.gallagher"
Subject: Happy Lupercalia - NJC
OK, y'all. Since it's after midnight, it's officially
LUPERCALIA, the old Roman holiday. So all
you priests of Lupercus, get out your goatskin
thongs and all you fair and tender ladies, get in
position and hope you get hit with one!
B.-
It's the ladies' choice: the hissing of...
PS If you wish to learn more about this festival,
http://miso.wwa.com/~jase/lupercalia/history.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:42:57 -0800
From: Randy Remote
Subject: Re: beyond the US?
Hi Francois
I don't know of any tour plans for anywhere at this point. The Cheiftains
have announced they will be having occasional 'special guests' during their US
tour, so who knows? Let's just keep our fingers crossed that Joni will go
back on the road for a proper tour sometime.
RR
Bounced Message wrote:
> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:47:50 +0200
> From: "Fr=?ISO-8859-1?B?6WTp?=ric Excoffier"
>
> Hi every body
>
> I'm Francois from Paris "in France, they kiss on main street".
> My english is not as fluent as I l'd like, to read all the messages of the
> list.
>
> Just one thing :
> All of you american fans are so lucky cause of the Joni tour.
> One of my dream is to see her on stage. I missed the New York concert.
>
> Does someone know if a European tour is planned ???
> It would be so great.
>
> Francois
------------------------------
End of JMDL Digest V4 #78
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