From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #70
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
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JMDL Digest Wednesday, February 10 1999 Volume 04 : Number 070
The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes
by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery
username: jimdle password: siquomb
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The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more.
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The JMDL website can be found at and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
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TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
Re: Irish as uneducated ["Twomey" ]
Re: Pound & WCW (NJC) [The Humphreys ]
Tap Dogs- NJC [The Humphreys ]
The Red Wheelbarrow (NJC) [Lisa Peakes ]
Re: Cooking up our best recipes ["M & C Urbanski" ]
Re: Throwing Muses [Ginamu@aol.com]
Re: Song To A Seagull ["Deb Messling" ]
Ramblin' on ["Steve Powell" ]
JC: re More on Joni painting [Kate Tarasenko ]
Re: Ramblin' on [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
Re: re More on Joni painting ["M & C Urbanski" ]
Joni's guitar picking [CarltonCT@aol.com]
Re: Can the Korn, please! (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com]
Re: JMDL Cookbook news ["Eric Taylor" ]
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:05:11 -0000
From: "Twomey"
Subject: Re: Irish as uneducated
Hi guys,
You'll be forgiven if you think I've fallen off the end of the earth, but I
really really do still read all the JMDL's still and must try to get back
in on the discussion. I have very little to add to this thread other than
to agree with what my west Ireland Joni friend Phillip has said, all and
any statements about Irish people's lack of education is complete ignprance
in the form of printed words. Ireland isn't a perfect place, and neither is
any other country on this planet. But like a lot of places we still have
the shadow of prejudice and ignorance clouding other people's perceptions
of who we are and what we are about.
I love Joni's Magdalene Laundry's, because it gives a voice to a desolate
Irish experience, it makes us all think about why things like that might
happen. It's a human thing, not a geographical thing.
Just a few random comments to remind some of you that their are Irish
people on this list, even if I am guilty of extreme lurking!!!!
Take care,
Sean :-)
Kate Bush News & Information
http://www.clubi.ie/twomey/katebush.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 19:13:12 -0500
From: The Humphreys
Subject: Re: Pound & WCW (NJC)
TR:
So much depends
upon
a red wheel
barrow
glazed with rain
water
beside the white
chickens.
Suzanne
Pound and Williams are my VERY favorite (Elliot being an extremely close
second)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 18:50:38 -0500
From: The Humphreys
Subject: Tap Dogs- NJC
Tap Dogs is a wonderfully entertaining entourage of buff young
men--Australian Steel Workers turned dancers. To me, you can't get any
better than that!! They truly have great talent and some interesting
special effects. I don't find them quite as versatile as "Stomp", but
certainly well worth the time and expense. If you ever get a chance,
check them out! Suzanne
NP: Fiona Apple--Shadowboxer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 19:13:11 -0500
From: Lisa Peakes
Subject: The Red Wheelbarrow (NJC)
<>
"so much depends
upon
a red wheel
barrow
glazed with rain
water
beside the white
chickens"
Lisa Peakes, Morning Host/Producer, Vermont Public Radio
20 Troy Avenue Colchester, VT 05446
ph:802-654-4351, fax:802-655-2997, e-mail:lpeakes@vpr.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:39:23 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: Cooking up our best recipes
> "Refuse of the Roads"...anyone?
> (I killed a skunk of strong spirit
> He squished and aromanized....)
>
> Marsha,
Well now I have to tell another story! A couple years back someone hit a
deer in front of our home. It was early in the morning; the kids were
getting ready for school. The deer's leg was severed and obviously in pain
and people were starting to crowd the poor thing. A cop came and had to
put it down. OH the debate in my front yard! Anyhow, before the cop puts
a bullet in it's head, he asks me if I want the damn thing (I'm not into
Bambi for dinner). Well, the 2 toothless ladies (who hit the deer) were
very excited about their grocery shopping that just ran into them. The cop
kills the buck. So here we are: Me the cop and the 2 ladies and we are
going to stuff this dead creature in the trunk of their Citation! Cop says
to me "you hold the head cuz it flops around." I got the good job! Well it
fit and by golly I'm sure there was some good eatin' goin' on dig dong
dang! Come on down to the white ass deer diner!
I personally like "Black Crow-quettes" myself!
Marilyn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:12:51 EST
From: Ginamu@aol.com
Subject: Re: Throwing Muses
In a message dated 2/9/99 4:42:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes:
> P: Throwing Muses, "run letter" from an Apache Records Sampler
>
Oh, you know...this is serendipitous because it made my day today to hear
Kristen Hirsh (not sure of the spelling) from Throwing Muses on the radio...I
think the title of the song I heard is Ghost..."It's the blaze across my
nightgown, it's the phone's ring..." Interesting to see this on someone's NP.
Gina
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:06:14 +0000
From: "Deb Messling"
Subject: Re: Song To A Seagull
I know about the problem with the engineer, but her voice on the
early tape trees, pre STAS, also sounds "older" to me. As in
"old-fashioned," maybe, not geezerly. Put the tape tree version of
"Conversation" against the LOTC one. It sounds older.
> They had to try and fix the hiss which dramatically decreased the
> treble tones resulting in what Judy Collins (I believe) said made
> Joni's voice sound like it was under a bell jar. So when Clouds and
> LOTC was released it may have sounded a bit more artificially
> altered or affected, but it was closer to her "natural" voice of the
> time than what you hear on STAS.
Deb Messling
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:24:14 -0000
From: "Steve Powell"
Subject: Ramblin' on
Hi folks, I'm new around here but have been enjoying all your mail for a few
days & now feel like participating in the "intercourse". I have tried before
but without success for some reason, probably too much alchohol!
I've been listening to Joni for years & love every album except Mingus, DED
and WTRF. The earth just doesn't move with those three, are they just not so
good or is it me again? Any thoughts, some counselling would be welcome?
Also, can anyone tell me how come I knew "Urge for Going" years before it
was apparently first released on "Hits"? I lost all my old records &
cassettes after replacing them with CDs but I'm sure it was on one of them.
I could already sing it (sort of) after a few beers.
The Magdalene Laundries story is intriguing. There is an analogy there with
the plight of so-called "wayward women" in some Moslem states, which I won't
go into now because it's too depressing by half. By the way I hear very
little sadness in joni's songs, anger at times, occasionally regret, but not
sadness. Anyway she sure makes me happy.
Steve Powell
.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:47:16 +0000
From: Kate Tarasenko
Subject: JC: re More on Joni painting
dskARTS@concentric.net wrote:
"...[Joni] says she's a painter first (and I don't think she means just
timewise). It bugs me when she's saying this a lot, as she was in all
the interviews last fall. It brings out the art critic in me, instead of
the music lover.
...And, if her music is just something she can toss off and is so
unimportant to her, why have I listened to it for so many years? It
feels like a putdown of her fans...."
I've been thinking about this a lot, and I'd like to offer my
perspective, since I've wrestled with the same dissatisfaction.
I think that Joni's paintings/drawings are far more challenging for her
as an artisitic expression, from technique to subject. Perhaps it's
this struggle that makes her gravitate toward it with more affection
(per the interviews). Maybe she was more excited to get the Grammy for
TI's (NRH's?) art than for its music! But I think that when she calls
herself "an artist first," it may be in an attempt to rise to this
challenge, this largely unconquered territory for her. Perhaps her
commitment to becoming "better" at painting is greater than what she
feels she has yet to accomplish musically. It could be that her music,
especially her lyrics, come more easily for her than painting, which is
more of a labor for her to "get right."
The other part of my answer regarding why Joni would put music second
(when she has found her fame, fan base and living here) is a product of
my lively imagination, but here goes. I think it's sour grapes. If
Joni pretends not to be hurt by receiving belated accolades from the
music biz (including financial rewards) -- and part of this pretension
is saying that it's not as important to her as something else she loves
to do -- then she's being defensive, but this isn't necessarily a bad
thing. I don't think she means to diminish her fans' appreciation, or
even many of the actual rewards and other recognition she's received.
But it does help to don some emotional armour because of what she's
expressed has been a gauling situation, that of the Alanis Morisettes
and Jewels and [fill in the blank]s being lavished with piles of praise
and cash, not solely for their talent, but for the hype that supports
it. I'd be a little defensive, too. This is a thread that's shown up
here often.
The other side of this argument is that it could indeed be that Joni
simply considers herself an artist first and a musician second. I'm
often struck, for an instant, how a friend may introduce me to someone,
zeroing in on one aspect of my character or what I like to do (since my
job is fairly unexciting). Were I to label myself, I'd have a lot of
slashes in between (hope that came out right!), and NONE of these
self-descriptors would mention what I actually get paid to do, in spite
of my good reputation, longevity, etc. (And I realize that comparing my
work-a-day life to Joni's rarefied existence is a bit of a stretch, but
I think certain principles apply.)
Anyway, I think Joni DOES have a style (I'm thinking of her many
self-portraits on her albums), but her painting is still in a growth
stage, whereas she is a master at her music. Her painting is largely
undiscovered country for most of her fans, and I envy the West-coasters
who attended the PPV taping and got to see Joni's paintings in person.
What a thrill!
My buck-and-a-half for the evening,
Kate in CO
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:08:05 EST
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ramblin' on
In a message dated 2/9/99 9:34:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, S-
P@dude25.freeserve.co.uk writes:
<< Hi folks, I'm new around here but have been enjoying all your mail for a
few
days & now feel like participating in the "intercourse". I have tried before
but without success for some reason, probably too much alchohol! >>
Steve Powell? I knew a Steve Powell, though I guess it's a fairly common
name. The Steve Powell I knew never struck me as much of a drinker, though.
Paul Ivice
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 01:14:01 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: re More on Joni painting
>
> I've been thinking about this a lot, and I'd like to offer my
> perspective, since I've wrestled with the same dissatisfaction.
> I think that Joni's paintings/drawings are far more challenging for her
> as an artisitic expression, from technique to subject. Perhaps it's
> this struggle that makes her gravitate toward it with more affection
> (per the interviews).
(MAJOR SNIP)
> My buck-and-a-half for the evening,
> Kate in CO
I think you have a very interesting point here! It makes sense; if your
not pushing yourself you really shrivel up! It could be that this artistic
struggle keeps the music alive.
Marilyn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 01:31:04 EST
From: CarltonCT@aol.com
Subject: Joni's guitar picking
On the STAS thread, I'd be interested in hearing more from other guitar
players about Joni's picking. I think that on many of those earliest songs,
the picking is the most complex and some of the most difficult to do while
singing. It also seems to me that Joni's modern guitar style is pared down,
that what she does now is a kind of combination of strumming and picking. I
noticed that on the Pay Per View that some of the songs she performed were not
picked at all, and were very simplified versions. I was wondering if anyone
knew why she has streamlined her style. I can't imagine that she has lost
her dexterity, judging from the detail of her painting.
In general, most of Joni's songs are difficult to pick. Even the strummed
songs are so idiosyncratic it makes them difficult to replicate. Lyrically,
the songs of STAS are intruiguing and different from her later work because
they have a kind of thematic and imagistic unity within each song that is also
developed to an end -- hard to pull off.
Strange as we get older, that so many of us have a hard time with Joni the
soprano on Clouds and LOTC. A few of those songs do seem quaint and
unlistenable and just a touch, well....piercing.
Now Eating: cranberry jelly beans
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 01:35:47 EST
From: LRFye@aol.com
Subject: Re: Can the Korn, please! (NJC)
Bob wrote:
> Yes, Marilyn, Korn is the group that was given to this generation so that
> ours could yell the classic "Turn that crap down"!! :~D
Finally! I've been lamenting for years the fact that kids these days got the
short end of the stick for not having any music that really pisses off their
parents.
I will have to go out and find some Korn immediately so I'll know when it's
time to complain. What do they sound like? Please tell me they don't do rap;
I already despise almost all of that.
Lori, feeling every bit of 40 in
San Antonio
NP: The Tenth World
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:50:23 -0500
From: "Eric Taylor"
Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook news
GARLIC APPLE PIE
Use your favorite recipe only replace half the apples with elephant garlic.
Top with olive-cured sun-dried tomatoes.
I promise you won't be sorry!
E.T.
------------------------------
End of JMDL Digest V4 #70
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Siquomb, isn't she?