From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #59 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, February 5 1999 Volume 04 : Number 059 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: noooooooJC! (vljc) [patrick leader ] Re: noooooooJC! ["Eric Taylor" ] NJC: One-Hit-Wonders and John Kelly (long) [LucasBC@webtv.net (Luke Bierl] Goat Dancing Songs (njc) [evian ] Re: Squeeze NJC ["Happy The Man" ] A Little on a few topics [Zapuppy@webtv.net (Penny Gibbons)] JMDL Guitar Site mentioned in March issue of Acoustic Guitar! [M.Russell@] nooooooooJC [evian ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:06:01 -0500 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: noooooooJC! (vljc) i've been on this list for a year and a half, with a recent sabbatical, and i've posted on the issue each time until now. just been watching, this time.... i want to publicly thank the many people who wrote beautiful posts on this subject. one thing that makes this list so cool is so many folks just fascinated with words, really aiming to use them well and put something of themselves in. this topic brought out the best in so many. i loved gina's, carlton's, eric's thoughts, kakki's gorgeous post yesterday, winfried, today, and especially paul i's first response to pat henry. good writing and careful thought are one of the great strengths of this list. jerry wrote >the very same thing you are doing, i.e., contributing your thoughts to the list about something other than Joni's music. with one huge difference. nearly everyone who wrote in created their post with a clear respect for other listers. people took time, either describing their experience with njc or explaining the thinking they've done to come to the position they had. respectful. pat henry's post was not. i really get burned at phrases like 'eloquently expressed your rationalizations'. that's contemptuous. pat is saying, 'you don't have opinions. you haven't thought things through. unlike me.' i'm wondering where he found 'rationalizations' in kakki's post. she just put her thoughts out there, no agenda, but with wonderful expression. most of the 'i-accept-njc' posts had the same quality. i suspect rationalizations are, to pat, just opinions that other people have. so leave us pat, take your marbles and go play somewhere else. this is the joni mitchell discussion list, you apparently want the joni mitchell pat henry is right list. have fun. patrick, who's been in hog-heaven ever since he got the home-game version of 'the gay agenda'. who'd have thought of infiltrating a music list for an artist i don't even like? np- toby twining - shaman take heed... hee hee hee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:53:01 -0500 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: noooooooJC! DAMN! I can't think of anything to share about Joni tonight. And I certainly don't want to bore anyone with who I am. Mega-dittos, Barbara! E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:13:54 -0800 (PST) From: LucasBC@webtv.net (Luke Bierlein) Subject: NJC: One-Hit-Wonders and John Kelly (long) Someone recently mentioned something about Sophie B. Hawkins being a "certified one hit wonder"! This got me to thinking... I am a Sophie fan and a fan of some other artists who have only had one real commercial hit. Take The Cardigans for instance. They had "Lovefool" with their second album, and nothing else has really gotten any air play. But I love their latest album and it's a complete turnaround from their last. They're really doing something as musicians. Sophie had "As I Lay Me..." so she's at least a 2-hit wonder, but if you took the chance to listen to that album it's really great. You could also say that Shawn Colvin is a one-hit wonder with "Sunny Came Home", but that won that "prestigious" Grammy and we know she's really talented and Joni even thinks so. I just don't like the term "one-hit wonder" anymore, because it's not really saying anything. The artist may be really talented, and for one reason or another has only gotten airplay for one of their released singles because they've changed styling or for some other reason. (I know that sentence didn't make sense.) By the same token, you can have a group like, say... Ace of Base who had a string of hits from one album, but has never really changed musical styling or grown at all as "musicians", but they're still not considered one-hit wonders. And if you take Joni's career and look at it on an altered scale, she's a kind of one-hit wonder to the many people who don't even know she's still making music. She had those hits (which were plentiful, but only in a few specific years out of a lengthy career) and now noone hears her on the radio. Is she "over"? Should she be considred a "has-been"? Of course not! She's grown incredibly as an artist and maybe didn't fit the mold or didn't get the deserved promotion by her record company, etc, etc, and so doesn't get the same attention as some current radio stars. So called "one-hit wonders" may have had only that one hit for radio or MTV play, but maybe to their serious listeners they have albums full of hits. Sorry this has gotten so long, and it wasn't intended as a "rage" on anyone at all. That little note just got me thinking and rambling.... One other thing: Natalie Merchant hosted an online chat last night with 30 fans in a room on her web page. I got one question answered--and that was about John Kelly. She relayed the dates he would be opening for her and said that he "is a performer who plays Joni Mitchell songs in drag. I hope you are as impressed by his stage presence as I am" or something along those lines. Natalie tends to take more "VH1-friendly" artists on her tours with her, so she must be a real John Kelly fan to invite him along. Luke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 00:09:47 -0600 From: evian Subject: Goat Dancing Songs (njc) Hmmm, it's late and I can't really think of videos too clearly right now, so here is another list of songs that are sexy as hell to me: Songs: Wicked Game -- Chris Isaak I can't Wait -- Stevie Nicks Sweetest Taboo -- Sade Your love is King -- Sade Erotic City -- Prince Erotica -- Madonna Justify my Love -- Madonna Just Like Heaven -- Cure If -- Janet Jackson Swept Away -- Diana Ross All I want is you -- U2 No Ordinary Love -- Sade Thats all I can think of at the moment, but I am sure there are a trillion more, and I can't for the life of me think of any videos right now besides Wicked Game and all the Sade ones. Evian np: FM: Bare Trees ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:42:19 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: Squeeze NJC I want to say thanks to all our UK friends for sending Squeeze to the states. They were awesome tonight. Though Chris Difford was out sick Glenn Tilbrooks vocals were unbelievable. One of the finest concerts I have seen in a while. Though I do admit I was tucked snugly in bed during Joni's recent flurry. If you one of the lucky ones who can see Squeeze don't miss a sure power pop evening. You can check out their 12 dates by going to www.squeezefan.com they are doing 6 dates in California. Peace, Craig NP: CSN - CSN (everybody is asleep so it's real low) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:33:49 -0800 (PST) From: Zapuppy@webtv.net (Penny Gibbons) Subject: A Little on a few topics Ya know, last week and even earlier this week, all the ragging that was going on back and forth on the list was really getting me depressed. Funny thing is, the last couple of days have been so over the top, that now it's almost having a lightening effect on me. I was laughing my butt off at the harshness I read today. I don't want to fight with my husband or kids cuz I can get my quota of fighting right here. Stress management via the internet? : -) Gotta relay that I regularly get to listen to Joni when I shop for groceries at the local store. "Conversation", "Electricity", "Coyote", "That Song About the Midway". It drives my kids crazy, cuz since the volume is so low, I have migrate to an area under one of the speakers and study the label on baked beans, or weigh the options of which brand of pepper to buy, or see what a spatula is made of for the length of the song. No doubt I probabaly look like some kind of "special person" with a silly grin of satisfation on my face shopping for baked beans, pepper or a spatula. Yesterday, it wasn't Joni though, Joan Armatrading's "Love and Affection" kept me in the frozen foods long enough for the kids to talk me into unplanned ice cream. Yesterday was the first I heard about the Joni cookbook. I loved some of the titles, especially "The Beat of Black Beans" and "Don Rowe's Reckless Guacamole", they sound like very active, lingering dishes! And thanks for those that responded to my question about how Nicolette Larson died. Later, Penny NP The Best of Aretha Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:30:28 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: JMDL Guitar Site mentioned in March issue of Acoustic Guitar! My sister Kate subscribes to Acoustic Guitar magazine and so she has already received the March '99 issue. She says there's an article on open guitar tunings and a list of musicians and the tunings they favor. They also mention the Joni Mitchell web site and say that there are 90 songs explained on it! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 01:53:11 -0600 From: evian Subject: nooooooooJC I think many of you, though sincere, are innocent victims, scammed and convinced by a few, who, in one or more of these 3 areas, have their own agenda and are intruding on and using this forum inappropriately to promote their own cause and are not really as enthralled with Joni as you are... take heed... pat Well, Good Grief! I cannot believe how this has gotten so out of hand. First off, of course this is a place for Joni talk, but you can only say so much at once, and then what the hell is left to say? Rather, it is the intermingling of the JC and NJC that makes the list fun. Also, conversations about Joni grow out of NJC and vice versa. Now, take the recent Joni concerts, album, etc. It was so great to hear about it all, and there were digests arriving every few hours about Joni content. And then.. BOOM.. it stopped.. Joni overload maybe? I mean, we all are Joni freaks, but I mean, if all we did was sit here daily and yak on and on about only her, it would be almost creepy. Now, I love NJC, and I really, really resent being told I am misled by people with agendas of their own. Where the hell is that happening?? FYI, I really don't think anyone here has some agenda to share with the world. First off, with the constant political crap happening, it is only logical we will bring it up. Secondly, sexuality comes up on the list because we are sexual beings, and thus it is a part of our lives. The debates about sex are not about "Agenda". Rather, they are about the ways in which we live our lives and the ways in which we experience things. Therefore, when people will mention sexuality on the list, it is damn well relevant as anything else! The list is made up of differing sexualities, and I think it is important that we comment on issues that arise, such as the recent threads. The lives we lead are all different, and it is such a crock to say that we can only come on the list if we agree to follow a set of stingent rules of JC. The nice thing about this list is that we try to break this notion that the world is a white, middle-class, Judeo-Christian, heterosexist whole. It is a place where we can try to see things through someone else's veiwpoint, but not through hidden agendas. Rather, we share our lives with each other and hopefully learn things from this interaction. And, of course, I challenge anyone to show where Joni does NOT seem to touch upon these topics as important facets of her music. I also think it is a big crock of shit to say that NJC means that we don't love Joni as much as people opposed to it. And, of course anyone is free to say what they want about the list, and the JC/NJC topic, but the way Pat's post was constructed was simply arrogant and a slap in the face to everyone. Basically, the tone of the post was that we are all too stubborn to listen to anything, and his way is the only way. Did we not see this type of thing with the whole Chili freakout about "it's my way, or the highway?" I mean, if you don't like something about the list, by all means say it. However, don't tell us that we all have hidden agendas that makes us lesser Joni fans. And, as you will notice when new people come to the list, we DO go over threads again, and are helpful. So, anyway, just had to say that this whole post about how we have agendas is a crock, and left a bad taste in my mouth. For the record, I have no frigging agenda here except to talk about Joni. However, politically I am a leftie, but I like to see debate from the right because I am curious what other people believe. Same goes for religion. I am a Christian, although I don't go for organized religion, but I LIKE to hear about other people's beliefs. As for sexuality, I am heterosexual, but my two best friends are gay, and so from them you cannot tell me that "heterosexual privilege" isn't a construct that people deal with on a daily basis. Hence, for all these reasons, NJC threads and debates are important, and they are not agendas, but integral parts of our lives. If it was only a list of JC, then it would be basically a Joni-fan drop-in center. However, with the NJC, we are a community. I have ranted enough, sorry for blabbing on, but I am cranky tonight. Evian np: Goodbye Yellowbrick Road ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #59 ************************* There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. 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