From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #59
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
Precedence: bulk
JMDL Digest Friday, February 5 1999 Volume 04 : Number 059
The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes
by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery
username: jimdle password: siquomb
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The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more.
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The JMDL website can be found at and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
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TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
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RE: noooooooJC! (vljc) [patrick leader ]
Re: noooooooJC! ["Eric Taylor" ]
NJC: One-Hit-Wonders and John Kelly (long) [LucasBC@webtv.net (Luke Bierl]
Goat Dancing Songs (njc) [evian ]
Re: Squeeze NJC ["Happy The Man" ]
A Little on a few topics [Zapuppy@webtv.net (Penny Gibbons)]
JMDL Guitar Site mentioned in March issue of Acoustic Guitar! [M.Russell@]
nooooooooJC [evian ]
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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:06:01 -0500
From: patrick leader
Subject: RE: noooooooJC! (vljc)
i've been on this list for a year and a half, with a recent sabbatical, and
i've posted on the issue each time until now. just been watching, this
time....
i want to publicly thank the many people who wrote beautiful posts on this
subject. one thing that makes this list so cool is so many folks just
fascinated with words, really aiming to use them well and put something of
themselves in. this topic brought out the best in so many. i loved
gina's, carlton's, eric's thoughts, kakki's gorgeous post yesterday,
winfried, today, and especially paul i's first response to pat henry. good
writing and careful thought are one of the great strengths of this list.
jerry wrote
>the very same
thing you are doing, i.e., contributing your thoughts to the list about
something other than Joni's music.
with one huge difference. nearly everyone who wrote in created their post
with a clear respect for other listers. people took time, either
describing their experience with njc or explaining the thinking they've
done to come to the position they had. respectful. pat henry's post was
not.
i really get burned at phrases like 'eloquently expressed your
rationalizations'. that's contemptuous. pat is saying, 'you don't have
opinions. you haven't thought things through. unlike me.' i'm wondering
where he found 'rationalizations' in kakki's post. she just put her
thoughts out there, no agenda, but with wonderful expression. most of the
'i-accept-njc' posts had the same quality.
i suspect rationalizations are, to pat, just opinions that other people
have.
so leave us pat, take your marbles and go play somewhere else. this is the
joni mitchell discussion list, you apparently want the joni mitchell pat
henry is right list. have fun.
patrick, who's been in hog-heaven ever since he got the home-game version
of 'the gay agenda'. who'd have thought of infiltrating a music list for
an artist i don't even like?
np- toby twining - shaman
take heed... hee hee hee
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:53:01 -0500
From: "Eric Taylor"
Subject: Re: noooooooJC!
DAMN! I can't think of anything to share about Joni tonight.
And I certainly don't want to bore anyone with who I am.
Mega-dittos, Barbara!
E.T.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:13:54 -0800 (PST)
From: LucasBC@webtv.net (Luke Bierlein)
Subject: NJC: One-Hit-Wonders and John Kelly (long)
Someone recently mentioned something about Sophie B. Hawkins being a
"certified one hit wonder"! This got me to thinking... I am a Sophie
fan and a fan of some other artists who have only had one real
commercial hit. Take The Cardigans for instance. They had "Lovefool"
with their second album, and nothing else has really gotten any air
play. But I love their latest album and it's a complete turnaround from
their last. They're really doing something as musicians. Sophie had
"As I Lay Me..." so she's at least a 2-hit wonder, but if you took the
chance to listen to that album it's really great. You could also say
that Shawn Colvin is a one-hit wonder with "Sunny Came Home", but that
won that "prestigious" Grammy and we know she's really talented and Joni
even thinks so. I just don't like the term "one-hit wonder" anymore,
because it's not really saying anything. The artist may be really
talented, and for one reason or another has only gotten airplay for one
of their released singles because they've changed styling or for some
other reason. (I know that sentence didn't make sense.) By the same
token, you can have a group like, say... Ace of Base who had a string of
hits from one album, but has never really changed musical styling or
grown at all as "musicians", but they're still not considered one-hit
wonders. And if you take Joni's career and look at it on an altered
scale, she's a kind of one-hit wonder to the many people who don't even
know she's still making music. She had those hits (which were
plentiful, but only in a few specific years out of a lengthy career) and
now noone hears her on the radio. Is she "over"? Should she be
considred a "has-been"? Of course not! She's grown incredibly as an
artist and maybe didn't fit the mold or didn't get the deserved
promotion by her record company, etc, etc, and so doesn't get the same
attention as some current radio stars. So called "one-hit wonders" may
have had only that one hit for radio or MTV play, but maybe to their
serious listeners they have albums full of hits. Sorry this has gotten
so long, and it wasn't intended as a "rage" on anyone at all. That
little note just got me thinking and rambling....
One other thing: Natalie Merchant hosted an online chat last night with
30 fans in a room on her web page. I got one question answered--and
that was about John Kelly. She relayed the dates he would be opening
for her and said that he "is a performer who plays Joni Mitchell songs
in drag. I hope you are as impressed by his stage presence as I am" or
something along those lines. Natalie tends to take more "VH1-friendly"
artists on her tours with her, so she must be a real John Kelly fan to
invite him along.
Luke
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 00:09:47 -0600
From: evian
Subject: Goat Dancing Songs (njc)
Hmmm, it's late and I can't really think of videos too clearly right
now, so here is another list of songs that are sexy as hell to me:
Songs:
Wicked Game -- Chris Isaak
I can't Wait -- Stevie Nicks
Sweetest Taboo -- Sade
Your love is King -- Sade
Erotic City -- Prince
Erotica -- Madonna
Justify my Love -- Madonna
Just Like Heaven -- Cure
If -- Janet Jackson
Swept Away -- Diana Ross
All I want is you -- U2
No Ordinary Love -- Sade
Thats all I can think of at the moment, but I am sure there are a
trillion more, and I can't for the life of me think of any videos right
now besides Wicked Game and all the Sade ones.
Evian
np: FM: Bare Trees
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:42:19 -0600
From: "Happy The Man"
Subject: Re: Squeeze NJC
I want to say thanks to all our UK friends for sending Squeeze to the
states. They were awesome tonight. Though Chris Difford was out sick Glenn
Tilbrooks vocals were unbelievable. One of the finest concerts I have seen
in a while. Though I do admit I was tucked snugly in bed during Joni's
recent flurry. If you one of the lucky ones who can see Squeeze don't miss
a sure power pop evening. You can check out their 12 dates by going to
www.squeezefan.com they are doing 6 dates in California.
Peace, Craig
NP: CSN - CSN (everybody is asleep so it's real low)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:33:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Zapuppy@webtv.net (Penny Gibbons)
Subject: A Little on a few topics
Ya know, last week and even earlier this week, all the ragging that
was going on back and forth on the list was really getting me depressed.
Funny thing is, the last couple of days have been so over the top, that
now it's almost having a lightening effect on me. I was laughing my
butt off at the harshness I read today. I don't want to fight with my
husband or kids cuz I can get my quota of fighting right here. Stress
management via the internet? : -)
Gotta relay that I regularly get to listen to Joni when I shop for
groceries at the local store. "Conversation", "Electricity", "Coyote",
"That Song About the Midway". It drives my kids crazy, cuz since the
volume is so low, I have migrate to an area under one of the speakers
and study the label on baked beans, or weigh the options of which brand
of pepper to buy, or see what a spatula is made of for the length of the
song. No doubt I probabaly look like some kind of "special person" with
a silly grin of satisfation on my face shopping for baked beans, pepper
or a spatula. Yesterday, it wasn't Joni though, Joan Armatrading's
"Love and Affection" kept me in the frozen foods long enough for the
kids to talk me into unplanned ice cream.
Yesterday was the first I heard about the Joni cookbook. I loved
some of the titles, especially "The Beat of Black Beans" and "Don Rowe's
Reckless Guacamole", they sound like very active, lingering dishes!
And thanks for those that responded to my question about how
Nicolette Larson died.
Later,
Penny
NP The Best of Aretha Franklin
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:30:28 +0100
From: M.Russell@iaea.org
Subject: JMDL Guitar Site mentioned in March issue of Acoustic Guitar!
My sister Kate subscribes to Acoustic Guitar magazine and so she has
already received the March '99 issue. She says there's an article on open
guitar tunings and a list of musicians and the tunings they favor. They also
mention the Joni Mitchell web site and say that there are 90 songs explained
on it!
Marian
Vienna
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 01:53:11 -0600
From: evian
Subject: nooooooooJC
I think many of you, though sincere, are innocent victims, scammed and
convinced by a few, who, in one or more of these 3 areas, have their own
agenda and are intruding on and using this forum inappropriately to
promote their own cause and are not really as enthralled with Joni as
you are... take heed... pat
Well, Good Grief! I cannot believe how this has gotten so out of
hand. First off, of course this is a place for Joni talk, but you can
only say so much at once, and then what the hell is left to say?
Rather, it is the intermingling of the JC and NJC that makes the list
fun. Also, conversations about Joni grow out of NJC and vice versa.
Now, take the recent Joni concerts, album, etc. It was so great to hear
about it all, and there were digests arriving every few hours about Joni
content. And then.. BOOM.. it stopped.. Joni overload maybe? I mean,
we all are Joni freaks, but I mean, if all we did was sit here daily and
yak on and on about only her, it would be almost creepy.
Now, I love NJC, and I really, really resent being told I am misled
by people with agendas of their own. Where the hell is that
happening?? FYI, I really don't think anyone here has some agenda to
share with the world. First off, with the constant political crap
happening, it is only logical we will bring it up. Secondly, sexuality
comes up on the list because we are sexual beings, and thus it is a part
of our lives. The debates about sex are not about "Agenda". Rather,
they are about the ways in which we live our lives and the ways in which
we experience things. Therefore, when people will mention sexuality on
the list, it is damn well relevant as anything else! The list is made
up of differing sexualities, and I think it is important that we comment
on issues that arise, such as the recent threads. The lives we lead are
all different, and it is such a crock to say that we can only come on
the list if we agree to follow a set of stingent rules of JC. The nice
thing about this list is that we try to break this notion that the world
is a white, middle-class, Judeo-Christian, heterosexist whole. It is a
place where we can try to see things through someone else's veiwpoint,
but not through hidden agendas. Rather, we share our lives with each
other and hopefully learn things from this interaction. And, of course,
I challenge anyone to show where Joni does NOT seem to touch upon these
topics as important facets of her music.
I also think it is a big crock of shit to say that NJC means that we
don't love Joni as much as people opposed to it. And, of course anyone
is free to say what they want about the list, and the JC/NJC topic, but
the way Pat's post was constructed was simply arrogant and a slap in the
face to everyone. Basically, the tone of the post was that we are all
too stubborn to listen to anything, and his way is the only way. Did we
not see this type of thing with the whole Chili freakout about "it's my
way, or the highway?" I mean, if you don't like something about the
list, by all means say it. However, don't tell us that we all have
hidden agendas that makes us lesser Joni fans. And, as you will notice
when new people come to the list, we DO go over threads again, and are
helpful.
So, anyway, just had to say that this whole post about how we have
agendas is a crock, and left a bad taste in my mouth. For the record, I
have no frigging agenda here except to talk about Joni. However,
politically I am a leftie, but I like to see debate from the right
because I am curious what other people believe. Same goes for
religion. I am a Christian, although I don't go for organized religion,
but I LIKE to hear about other people's beliefs. As for sexuality, I am
heterosexual, but my two best friends are gay, and so from them you
cannot tell me that "heterosexual privilege" isn't a construct that
people deal with on a daily basis. Hence, for all these reasons, NJC
threads and debates are important, and they are not agendas, but
integral parts of our lives. If it was only a list of JC, then it would
be basically a Joni-fan drop-in center. However, with the NJC, we are a
community.
I have ranted enough, sorry for blabbing on, but I am cranky tonight.
Evian
np: Goodbye Yellowbrick Road
------------------------------
End of JMDL Digest V4 #59
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Siquomb, isn't she?