From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #58 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, February 4 1999 Volume 04 : Number 058 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Unanswered Questions (JC) [dsk ] Re: Cosmetic Surgery ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: NJC: Re: Lack of JC; ->Long [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: (VLJC) - Dee Carstensen ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: damn! (njc) ["Don Rowe" ] RE: damn! (njc) [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: damn! (njc) ["Winfried Hühn" ] RE: Goat dancing songs (SJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] NJC (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Lucinda Williams is tough (NJC) ["Eric G. Postel" ] Re: damn! (njc) [Jerry Notaro ] TESTING ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Re: Goat dancing songs/Videos (SJC) ["Don Rowe" ] noooooooJC! ["P. Henry" ] Re: damn (NJC) [David Wright ] Re: noooooooJC! ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: damn! (njc) [MHart16164@aol.com] Re: noooooooJC! [Randy Remote ] Re: divided concert [Debra Kaufman ] Tonight I'm going dancing with the drag queens and the punks [Bounced Mes] Re: damn! (njc) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Lucinda Williams is tough [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Springsteen Video NJC [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Your reactions to STAS [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: noooooooJC! ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: Joni/TV movies [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: noooooooJC! ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: Damns! (SJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Damns! (SJC) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: noooooooJC! ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: Damns! (SJC) ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: noooooooJC! [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: Springsteen Video NJC [catman ] Re: NJC: Re: Lack of JC; ->Long [The Humphreys ] Re: (VLJC) - Dee Carstensen ["Steve Garrison" ] Re: damn! (njc) [The Humphreys ] Goat dancing videos/songs (VLJC) ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: Damns! (SJC) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Springsteen Video NJC [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Goat dancing videos/songs (VLJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Damns! (SJC) [catman ] Re: Springsteen Video NJC [catman ] Re: Damns! (SJC) ["Marsha" ] Murray's book [bhillis@onramp.ca (Patricia Hillis)] RE: Damns! (SJC) [patrick leader ] Re: Damns! (SJC) [Joseph Palis ] Re: Damns! (SJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 03:04:53 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Unanswered Questions (JC) Ginamu@aol.com wrote: > > 1) I've been to the Elvis Costello Homepage looking for the Vanity Fair > article where he praises the song Shades Of Shades Conquering, but I've been > unable to find it. Can anyone transcribe this part and post it? I do sooooo > want to read exactly what he said. Gina, don't have any info about questions 2 & 3, but remember this from one of my favorite articles about Joni, which was in Vanity Fair June 1997. It's on the JMDL web site articles list -- "Lady of the Canyon", by Bill Flanagan: Elvis Costello says that he has purchased every Mitchell album since the first. He recalls skipping school in Liverpool to take the train to Manchester and lining up for tickets to see Mitchell play. "She's compared to the wrong people," he said after a concert in New York. "The people that have been overtly influenced by her, with the possible exception of Prince, are nowhere near as good as she is. Her range is much greater. You know the line in 'Shades of Scarlet Conquering'— 'Dressed in stolen clothes she stands / Cast-iron and frail / With her impossibly gentle hands / And her blood-red fingernails'? If many songwriters wrote a description as good as that in their whole careers, they would be blessed— and there are five or six lines that good in that one song! It's not just that she has no rivals among female singer-songwriters. She has very few peers among any songwriters." Cool, huh? You can probably do a search of the articles to get answers to your other questions. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:35:47 -0500 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Cosmetic Surgery Lisa Peakes wrote: <> What a wonderful perspective, Lisa! You somehow make me feel comfortable enough to share this story. Back in 1975 I met a beautiful woman whom everyone still says looks a lot like Joni. Her name is June and I fell in love with her. I had no idea that she was 50 at the time. She looked 30-something, smoked cigarettes most of her life, and has never had any plastic surgery. Twenty-some years later, June is still an amazingly attractive woman and doesn't look a day over 50. As a matter of fact, she looks better than many 20-year-olds and still bares a remarkable resemblance to Joni. June still smokes (Carltons) and wants to get a facelift but is afraid of going under the blade. I've often wondered how June maintains such a youthful face and body. Yes, she religiously applies expensive beauty potions and eats non-fat everything. Yes, she bleaches her hair blond, although she wishes that she'd finally turn gray. But I think the real secret is that she gets plenty of sleep and laughs a lot. Plus, she is a good-hearted soul who feeds every stray she sees, and absolutely loves Nature. I swear June spends more money saving rainforests, donating to animal shelters, and feeding deer (3 pounds of cracked corn per day) than most people spend investing in the stock market! June is not a Joni fan but she just loves Last Chance Lost. And when I played her the video of Comes Love she melted. Then, transfixed by Song For Sharon, June blurted out: "You know, she is really amazing!" When I told her that those pleasing sounds came from Joni's guitar, she finally grasped my profound admiration for our Lady of the canyon. E.T. NP: Song To A Seagull ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:32:49 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: NJC: Re: Lack of JC; ->Long On Wed, 03 Feb 1999 01:53:44 -0500 "Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: * My point: Tolerance is a key concept to the JMDL. I loved your remarks about tolerance, Jim. * I enjoy hearing news about political struggles and everyday * life in places other than the USA! I wish there was more of * that on the JMDL. It never occured to me that in Austria you * can't get Chinese food for example. Where did you hear this??? In Austria, you can't go shopping on Sunday. In Austria, the whole country pretty much shuts down between midnight and 5 a.m. In Austria, if you try to stand politely in line and wait your turn, it's likely you'll be standing there the whole day! But there are lots of Chinese restaurants, and some pretty good ones, too. Maybe you meant to say Mexican food? Although there are a few Mexican restaurants, the food never seems quite hot enough - never seems quite right. I don't know of any Vietnamese restaurants here either. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:14:20 +0100 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: (VLJC) - Dee Carstensen Joseph Palis schrieb: > PS. Heard a certain singer named Dee Cartensten (sp?) admitted on TV that > she likes Joni most. Makes me want to check out Dee's albums all of a > sudden as if I already knew her. The correct name is Dee Carstensen, who BTW happens to be the wife of jazz musician Mike Manieri. I too saw an interview a couple of weeks ago (I think it was CNN WorldBeat) where she was one of the featured artists at some Canadian music festival. She was addressed to as the "New Joni Mitchell" (yawn), but the music they featured sounded quite nice indeed and because I'm currently digging harp music anyway (BTW anybody know that excellent Scottish harp duo Sileas?), I bought her album "The Map". I haven't listened to it that much to give a final and balanced review yet, but musically, my initial reaction was one of mild disappointment. The lyrics are pretty good, but IMO still clearly fall short of the standard set and maintained by Joni. (certainly no surprise) Best, Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:29:09 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Cosmetic Surgery > June is not a Joni fan but she just loves Last Chance Lost. And when I > played her the video of Comes Love she melted. Then, transfixed by Song For > Sharon, June blurted out: "You know, she is really amazing!" When I told her > that those pleasing sounds came from Joni's guitar, she finally grasped my > profound admiration for our Lady of the canyon. > E.T. I dub you "Eric the Evangelist!" Let's give a big hand to brother Eric for bringing one more over to the queendom of Joni! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 06:52:24 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: damn! (njc) Partick writes ... >damn, i wish i was your lover > >sophie b. hawkins, certified one-hit wonder > And it's a damn shame! The girl rocks! Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:44:28 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: damn! (njc) Patrick wrote <<>> Um, make that two-hit. I don't remember the name of the other tune, but it went "Now I lay me down to sleep/This I pray/That you will hold me dear/Though I'm far away I whisper your name/ something something something/And I will make you happy." And they actually came from two different albums, "Damn I Wish..." being from _Tongues and Tails_ and the second one from _Whaler_. And she, either in addition to or instead of Sarah McLachlan, has famously proclaimed herself "omnisexual." - --Michael NP: Remy Zero, _Villa Elaine_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 16:17:31 +0100 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: damn! (njc) Don Rowe wrote: > Partick writes ... > > >damn, i wish i was your lover > > > >sophie b. hawkins, certified one-hit wonder > > > And it's a damn shame! The girl rocks! > > Don Rowe > Yep. It's one of the sexiest rock songs I know. Also a cute, cute, videoclip, as far as I remember. BTW, sexy songs/videoclips -- have we had that thread topic yet? (I slightly remember something like that in connection to that "goat dance" thread...?) Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:44:59 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: Goat dancing songs (SJC) Winfried asked: <<>> I don't have cable, so I'm not so good on the video tip (though those USC swim team boys from Madonna's "Cherish" *have* to be mentioned. Bay-bee!!). As far as songs go, Aaliyah's "Are You That Somebody?" has had me screaming "Yes, girl, I am!" for almost a year now, though I like even better to cast myself *as* Aaliyah and seduce some unsuspecting boy into submission. Not my normal personality type, but hey, if the rope fits... Alex Chilton's voice on some Big Star cuts is as f**kable as any I've heard. And the live performances of NYC gender-blender Raven-O are a little, um, exciting. The Ginuwine cover of Prince's "When Doves Cry" is hot; Cassandra Wilson's rendition of U2's "Love Is Blindness" is cool. In a completely different way I think "Crazy Cries" is as delectably erotic as anything Joni's done. And, you know, sometimes Randy Travis's voice can really get me going. - --Michael, oh no I've said too much NP: Patti Smith, _Horses_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:12:24 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: NJC (NJC) Paul Tyrer wrote: >Well well. Recent postings about NJC were very interesting, weren't they? >They really turned out, surprise surprise, to be difficult feelings about >gay NJC. No, Paul, my postings (at least) about NJC turned out to be, surprise surprise, about NJC and the divisivness (sp?) it can generate, and I resent any other characterization of them. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:38:52 -0500 From: "Eric G. Postel" Subject: Lucinda Williams is tough (NJC) I know there are big Lucinda fans on the list so pardon the use of bandwidth for this. Saw Lucinda and her band last night in Madison and they were really really hot. And she is really a tough lady -- her original drummer who had played with her for 10 years died yesterday in Austin. She did the show in Madison anyway but was clearly affected by the loss and mentioned it in the concert. Many songs about death, etc. and she never smiled and stood very straight and still. Seemed on the verge of tears several times. But then, as happens to listeners and musicians alike sometimes, the music (or the sold out crowd) must have got to her and lightened the load. By the second encore (and the encores were almost as long as the main show), she was smiling (broadly) and the band was fired up. Wonderful concert -- go see them. Cheers, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 16:51:09 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Goat dancing songs (SJC) Haven't seen a video to it but the song that immediately comes to mind is I'm On Fire by Bruce Springstien Not bad considering I am not into male singers at all. But thius song gives me ideas goosebumps. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:05:21 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: damn! (njc) patrick leader wrote: > damn, i wish i was your lover > > sophie b. hawkins, certified one-hit wonder > > patrick How about As I Lay Me Down? That was also a big hit. Jerry np: Patti Austin - Smoke Gets In Your Eyes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:04:50 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: TESTING testing testing testing sorry for the use of bw p. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 09:50:34 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Goat dancing songs/Videos (SJC) I'll put dos pesos in on this one ... Video ... well there's "Wicked Game" by Chris Isaak, just about any video Janet Jackson's ever done ... "Express Yourself" by Madonna ... Songs ... "How Do You Stop", "My Secret Place", "Underneath the Streetlight", "Come In From The Cold", Brian Ferry -- "Slave to Love", Frankie Goes To Hollywood - "Relax", John Hiatt -- "My Sweet Girl", Steve Winwood -- "Higher Love" and so many more, depending on mood ... Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 17:50:33 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: noooooooJC! well, it looks like most of you have 'weighed in' on this thing... and I give up! not only am I credited with/blamed for things which I do *not* say or intend, but nobody has bothered to address the points I *did* state... (which I won't bother to repeat... you can always go beck if you want to read them) nevertheless, you apparently have *your* list the way you want it and that's that... oh yes and colin, thank you so much for putting me in my place... I feel much better now that I know that as a new person on the list my opinions are neither valid nor welcome. to all of you who feel it's so great to have sexual, political and religious rants so long you can, as someone said, sometimes delete entire digests full of NJC in this forum supposedly about Joni Mitchell without missing a thing and have so eloquently expressed your rationalizations affirming your position, I recommend that you save your posts to archive so that you'll be ready the next time a new person mistakenly wanders in here because they love Joni's music and wonder why they're getting all this other junk! it's happened before and it will happen again because I happen to be right! and one last thing while I'm at it: several of you... more than a few... have mentioned that you think/feel that Joni's music is boring and that just talking about that and about her would be boring... (a disgrace as far as I'm concerned!) well, go to the JMDL archive page and open up the '96 list archive if you want to see how 'boring' it is. I'll tell you what boring is... I wouldn't spend 5 seconds in a forum on sexuality, religion or politics because I couldn't imagine anything more boring! further, it amazes me that anyone could line those things up on the same shelf with Joni! no, I think many of you, though sincere, are innocent victims, scammed and convinced by a few, who, in one or more of these 3 areas, have their own agenda and are intruding on and using this forum inappropriately to promote their own cause and are not really as enthralled with Joni as you are... take heed... pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:00:05 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: damn (NJC) Tom Ross wrote: > thinking of a 'Damn!' song and I need more! so far: the best, I think: Nina Simone, "...'cause everybody knows about Mississippi goddam!" (her spelling) - --David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:14:20 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: noooooooJC! Amazing. Such a lengthy post criticizing those who are doing the very same thing you are doing, i.e., contributing your thoughts to the list about something other than Joni's music. Jerry On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, P. Henry wrote: > well, it looks like most of you have 'weighed in' on this thing... and I give up! not only am I credited with/blamed for things which I do *not* say or intend, but nobody has bothered to address the points I *did* state... (which I won't bother to repeat... you can always go beck if you want to read them) nevertheless, you apparently have *your* list the way you want it and that's that... > oh yes and colin, thank you so much for putting me in my place... I feel much better now that I know that as a new person on the list my opinions are neither valid nor welcome. > to all of you who feel it's so great to have sexual, political and religious rants so long you can, as someone said, sometimes delete entire digests full of NJC in this forum supposedly about Joni Mitchell without missing a thing and have so eloquently expressed your rationalizations affirming your position, I recommend that you save your posts to archive so that you'll be ready the next time a new person mistakenly wanders in here because they love Joni's music and wonder why they're getting all this other junk! it's happened before and it will happen again because I happen to be right! > and one last thing while I'm at it: several of you... more than a few... have mentioned that you think/feel that Joni's music is boring and that just talking about that and about her would be boring... (a disgrace as far as I'm concerned!) well, go to the JMDL archive page and open up the '96 list archive if you want to see how 'boring' it is. > I'll tell you what boring is... I wouldn't spend 5 seconds in a forum on sexuality, religion or politics because I couldn't imagine anything more boring! further, it amazes me that anyone could line those things up on the same shelf with Joni! > no, I think many of you, though sincere, are innocent victims, scammed and convinced by a few, who, in one or more of these 3 areas, have their own agenda and are intruding on and using this forum inappropriately to promote their own cause and are not really as enthralled with Joni as you are... take heed... pat > > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:16:40 EST From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: damn! (njc) In a message dated 99-02-04 12:16:15 EST, you write: << sophie b. hawkins, certified one-hit wonder >> I heard that sophie once said in an interview that if she could change one thing about her body she would add a tail. I thought that was pretty cool because most people think in terms of their own imperfections. Michele NP: Kate Bush Cloudbusting ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:21:15 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: noooooooJC! > no, I think many of you, though sincere, are innocent victims, scammed and convinced by a few, who, in one or more of these 3 areas, have their own agenda Or maybe just want to discuss and exchange their views........ which you have the freedom to join in on, or hit 'delete' RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:37:03 -0500 From: Debra Kaufman Subject: Re: divided concert >My point is that we don't spend enough time putting things together. It >reminds me of a concert I attended once. The band divided the audience >down the middle and asked those on each side to try to sing louder than >the other side. By the end of the song, each side was booing the other >side! Three Dog Night's front man said, "Wow! These are your >*neighbors* you guys." This reminds me of a story I read in the WONDERFUL biography of Louis Armstrong (as much a history of jazz, since he was born into the beginning of the jazz era). Not surprisingly, Satchmo was as popular with white folks as he was with black, but in the early days of jazz the audiences were always separate. He'd play river boats (white audience) and brothels and clubs and funerals (for blacks). In the 40s, when the big band sound was popular, the All Stars were to play in a ballroom in some city in the South, I forget which--where the two races had never been together as an audience. So the owners put a chickenwire fence down the middle of the ballroom to keep the races apart. Isn't that amazing? They were all there grooving to this swinging music, but physically divided. Sometimes we forget how recently this all was... DK ****************************************************************** "It's not what you say, but mostly how you feel it." Tim Buckley ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:37:26 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Tonight I'm going dancing with the drag queens and the punks From: "paul tyrer" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:18:09 -0000 Well well. Recent postings about NJC were very interesting, weren't they? They really turned out, surprise surprise, to be difficult feelings about gay NJC. I'm sure gay and lesbian subscribers to the list will heave yet another huge sigh and just say get over it. P. Henry and others may have great stories about knowing or meeting Joni to fill up their posts, but I don't. And even if I did, I wouldn't want to restrict myself solely to talking about that meeting on this list, or sticking strictly to talking about Joni's musical or lyrical production. I'm a richer canvas than that - everyone is. And a list of people only ever able to talk about Joni's music - no matter how much we love that music - would deny us the broader humanity that makes jmdl worthwhile. People who hate (gay) NJC - people who really hate it - should maybe ask themselves why they hate it when they have a scroll button and (I hope) better things to be doing than reading posts they don't wanna read. Anyway, I for one really hope Colin comes back - cos he was one of the shiniest things on this list. But if he didn't, I wouldn't blame him. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:53:12 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: damn! (njc) << sophie b. hawkins, certified one-hit wonder >> >I heard that sophie once said in an interview that if she could change one >thing about her body she would add a tail. > You know, the more I find out about sophie b, the more I like her. First that magnificent "omnisexual" quip and now this. One of my childhood fantasies was to have a tail, so that I could have a tail flipping fight with Levinson my cat ... have at it dr. sigmonde! :-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:48:19 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Lucinda Williams is tough Eric reviewed: < By the second encore (and the encores were almost as long as the main show), she was smiling (broadly) and the band was fired up. Wonderful concert -- go see them.>> Thanks for the review, Eric! Unfortunately I missed her when she came through last time but I won't next time...sounds like you got a really special performance. And no need to ask for a pardon, Greg Liesz has played with both Lucinda & Joni so there's only *one* degree of separation... And it's *already* killin me that new releases from either of these two are years away... And speaking of encores, I read on the Elvis C. website that his shows featured 2 and 3 encores, sometimes 12-15 songs total. Serious encore action! Bob NP: Lafayette Thomas "Old Memories" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:57:06 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Springsteen Video NJC Catman, no longer vanting to be alone, says: <> Colin, I'm no vidoephile but being a Bruce fan I do remember the video for this song - Bruce is an auto mechanic, working on a luxury car for some lady who lives in the mansion on the hill. He drives the car back to her place, goes to the front door entertaining fantasies of him & her, but then puts the keys in the mailbox and leaves as he knows he can't compete in her social strata. You'd like it, Bruce is buff and sweaty and wearing tight T-shirts as I recall... Bob NP: Jimmy Rogers, "Rock This House" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:04:58 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Your reactions to STAS Pat, Do you recall the first time you heard STAS, and listened to these new songs that Joni had recorded. You'd been hearing her live for awhile, and all of a sudden there's this clump of songs about Michael & Marcie...did you know what she was specifically addressing since you were 'inner circle' How about "Cactus Tree"? I see lines like "There's a man who sent a letter..." & "There's a man who sends her medals..". Did/Do you know who she's singing about? Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here but I'd be interested to hear your take on some of these songs with what was going on at the time... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 20:52:16 +0100 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: noooooooJC! P. Henry wrote: > > to all of you who feel it's so great to have sexual, political and religious rants so long you can, as someone said, sometimes delete entire digests full of NJC in this forum supposedly about Joni Mitchell without missing a thing and have so eloquently expressed your rationalizations affirming your position, I recommend that you save your posts to archive so that you'll be ready the next time a new person mistakenly wanders in here because they love Joni's music and wonder why they're getting all this other junk! it's happened before and it will happen again because I happen to be right! Sorry, Pat. You just will have to accept the attitude of the clear majority of people contributing to this list -- anything goes, apart from personal insults and related misbehaviors. And I request you do it politely without insulting people who just happen to think differently on this issue. We had polls with a clear outcome, so your attempt to turn the majority into a minority is deemed to fail. This is an unmoderated list (Thanks Les, for your wonderful, wonderful job) entirely depending on the input of its regular contributors. They are the ones who decide what to talk about and what not. It is absolutely irrelevant what you or I regard as "junk" or "boring" etc. etc. The only thing that matters is that there are people who wish to discuss about a certain issue and that they wish to do it here because they want to discuss it with other Joni-fans. The argument that this is "Joni-list" does not justify the conclusion that is is a "Just-Joni" or even "almost Just-Joni" list. First of all, there is still enough Joni content here to clearly distinguish this list from lists with other agendas. Secondly, this list is as much about Joni as about her fans, i.e. us. Most importantly, it is there *for* us. Since we are humans and not robots, it is the most normal thing in the world to socialize. The only way this is possible over the internet is to talk about ourselves, who we are, what we are doing, how we are seeing things, what else we have in common besides our affection for Joni. There is a social dimension to this list. To deny it is nonsensical, and to supress it would in fact be inhumane. The amount of JC/NJC varies, as one can expect it to. When Joni was touring, we had almost 80-90% JC, and people suggesting NJC topics to talk about got no or little reaction. At this moment, the scale has shifted to a higher amount of NJC. It might be different again next week. Within these perimeters, all that Joni-purists are entitled to is to express their viewpoint and to advertise for it. Most certainly, they can also expect a fair amount of politeness and regard from everybody else. But in turn they should also politely accept the majority opinion here. That's what I would like to ask you to do. Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:27:56 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/TV movies In a message dated 2/3/99 3:59:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, scam@freeway.net writes: << The closing scene in the First episode of thirtysomething faded out to Circle game. River was prominantly featured in a holiday episode where Hope and Michael were playing tug of war over which faith to celebrate (Jewish or Christian). I gotta admit, Paul, this feels really good. Now I know why you do it :-) You still sing better than me, and play a mean 6 handed cribbage! >> I sit corrected. Thanks, Sue, for unconfusing me on the TWO episodes of thirtysomething that used Joni songs. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:42:28 +0100 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: noooooooJC! Sorry to speak up again on this, but now I have to correct myself: Winfried Hühn wrote: > This is an unmoderated list (Thanks Les, for your wonderful, wonderful > job) entirely depending on the input of its regular contributors. They > are the ones who decide what to talk about and what not. Of course, this lists depends on the input of *everybody* who posts to it. Regular or irregular doesn't matter. Needless to say, people who just or mostly lurk are welcome to do so. It does not make them second class members either. They can only be invited and encouraged to speak up, and this is another argument in favor of discussing many different topics, because it increases the opportunities to join and lowers the threshold for newbies. If people still just want to read what others write, that's fine too. But then they also have to accept that they have no influence on this list's content and on the topics being discussed. Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:03:57 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC) This damn thread keeps growing - >damn. . .this traffic jam! - JT >damn everything but the circus! - ee >winter's a-comin' in! sing goddamn! - EP >damn the torpedoes! - (who?) >Damn the dam! -Busy Beaver >God damn the pusher (Steppenwolf) >Goddamn, dim them headlights! (Also JT, "Brother Trucker") >Don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam (Country Joe & The >Fish) >"Whooo is the maaan who would give his life for fellow man?" >"Shaft!" "Damn Right!" - Isaac Hayes >damn! I wish I was your lover - Sophie B. Hawkins >'cause everybody knows about Mississippi, goddamn! - Nina Simone to which I add: "Damn you, mister and I dragged him out the door" (Been On A Train - Laura Nyro) and the obvious Joni content: "I'm gonna blow this damn candle out" "look at those jokers glued to that damn hockey game" and the related: "Dang me, dang me, they're gonna take a rope and hang me" - Roger Miller Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:48:23 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC) Kakki writes ... >This damn thread keeps growing - > Surely we haven't forgotten, but just in case ... My girl killed our unborn child Without even grievin'! I put my hands on her belly To feel the kid kickin'--damn! She'd been to some clinic -- - -- Joni Mitchell "Beat of Black Wings" Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:55:42 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: noooooooJC! > Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 12:50 PM > > and one last thing while I'm at it: several of you... more than a few... have mentioned that you think/feel that Joni's music is boring and that just talking about that and about her would be boring... (a disgrace as far as I'm concerned!) well, go to the JMDL archive page and open up the '96 list archive if you want to see how 'boring' it is. pat Excuse me... But why are you cluttering up the list with all this BS? I didn't see you answer 1 question on the Joni stats! I attempted a couple of times to have a Joni content thread (along with a few others), and gee you didn't participate. You supposedly knew her...what's her favorite drink? How did she feel about kids? What did she say about her art? What was her relationship with her father? Does she pick her nose? I don't think you fucking know! I think all you're interested in is stirring up trouble and getting attention albeit negative! Themes ebb and flow on this list but you insist on beating this dead horse! Get off of it and give us some fucking Joni content and quit whining! I think you have a control problem go see a shrink!!!! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:19:35 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC) > Kakki writes ... > >This damn thread keeps growing - > > > Surely we haven't forgotten, but just in case ... > > My girl killed our unborn child > Without even grievin'! > I put my hands on her belly > To feel the kid kickin'--damn! > She'd been to some clinic -- > > -- Joni Mitchell "Beat of Black Wings" Did we include from the PRV story... "those yankees come up here and empty their builges in our (?) and they don't spend an goddamn dime..." frankly Scarlet, I don't give a damn! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:20:33 EST From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: noooooooJC! In a message dated 2/4/99 11:58:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, whuehn@stud.uni- goettingen.de writes: << The argument that this is "Joni-list" does not justify the conclusion that is is a "Just-Joni" or even "almost Just-Joni" list. First of all, there is still enough Joni content here to clearly distinguish this list from lists with other agendas. Secondly, this list is as much about Joni as about her fans, i.e. us. Most importantly, it is there *for* us. Since we are humans and not robots, it is the most normal thing in the world to socialize. The only way this is possible over the internet is to talk about ourselves, who we are, what we are doing, how we are seeing things, what else we have in common besides our affection for Joni. There is a social dimension to this list. To deny it is nonsensical, and to supress it would in fact be inhumane. >> well put winifried. thank you for saying it so well and articulating my feelings for me, and i am sure, many many others. i am taken aback at the vehemence of mr. henry but reassured by your moderate and wonderfully reasonable response. bless us, don't let us lose the drift. peace, ric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 23:14:06 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Springsteen Video NJC > . You'd like it, Bruce is buff and > sweaty and wearing tight T-shirts as I recall... And how do you know I don't prefer my men sweet smelling and in suits?!!!Actually, my taste is electic. Eyes and smiles do it every time! What does buff mean? I only know it as a colour. > > > Bob > > NP: Jimmy Rogers, "Rock This House" - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:39:10 -0500 From: The Humphreys Subject: Re: NJC: Re: Lack of JC; ->Long Gee, it sounds alot like South Carolina, eh Bob? Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:42:41 -0500 From: "Steve Garrison" Subject: Re: (VLJC) - Dee Carstensen Agreed. Whilst a jazz and vocals buyer at Tower Records I received audition copies of her first couple of albums. Attempted to give them a fair listen, but generally found myself a few tracks in doing the "Huh? Where was I?" number. They have vanished from my collection and my recollection with scarcely a trace or regret. Steve - ---------- >From: "Winfried H¸hn" >The correct name is Dee Carstensen, who BTW happens to be the wife of jazz >musician Mike Manieri. >I haven't listened to it that much to give a final and balanced review yet, >but musically, my initial reaction was one of mild disappointment. The lyrics >are pretty good, but IMO still clearly fall short of the standard set and >maintained by Joni. (certainly no surprise) > >Best, >Winfried > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:42:27 -0500 From: The Humphreys Subject: Re: damn! (njc) Did you see Sophie several years ago on Good Morning America? She sang, "Damn, wish I was your lover". I thought Joan Lunden was going to have a tizzy. Pretty funny at 7am. :-) Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 00:53:33 +0100 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Goat dancing videos/songs (VLJC) Erotic videos: - -- most definitely Chris Isaak, Wicked Game - -- Guesch Patti, Etienne - -- and, if I may add, every video that has Sade in it, regardless of what she does or wear. Least erotic video - -- Queen -- I Want To Break Free ;-) Sexy songs: - -- Quincy Jones -- Secret Garden - -- INXS - Need You Tonight - -- INXS -- Devil Inside - -- John Lee Hooker/Bonnie Raitt -- I'm In The Mood - -- Bonnie Raitt -- Love Letter - -- Prince - If I was your girlfriend (Live Version from the Sign O' The Times video -- great horn section!) - -- Martine Girault -- Revival and, here comes the JC, - -- Joni -- Blue Motel Room - ----------- X-Rated - ----------- Salt'n Pepa -- Push It James Brown -- Sex Machine Prince -- Sexy Mother*beep*er ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:00:50 -0500 From: The Humphreys Subject: Austria (NJC) I just replied to the message that described shopping circumstances in Austria, i.e. none on Sundays, etc. Unfortunately, the body of the message I was replying to did not include itself...damn these computers!:-) So anyway, the joke about South Carolina probably didn't come off quite as "funny". Okay Bob? Sorry everyone out there...just getting used to this piece of machine. Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:15:58 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC) In a message dated 2/4/99 4:15:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net writes: > This damn thread keeps growing - > > >damn. . .this traffic jam! - JT > >damn everything but the circus! - ee > >winter's a-comin' in! sing goddamn! - EP > >damn the torpedoes! - (who?) > >Damn the dam! -Busy Beaver > >God damn the pusher (Steppenwolf) > >Goddamn, dim them headlights! (Also JT, "Brother Trucker") > >Don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam (Country Joe & The > >Fish) > >"Whooo is the maaan who would give his life for fellow man?" > >"Shaft!" "Damn Right!" - Isaac Hayes > >damn! I wish I was your lover - Sophie B. Hawkins > >'cause everybody knows about Mississippi, goddamn! - Nina Simone > > to which I add: > > "Damn you, mister and I dragged him out the door" (Been On A Train - Laura > Nyro) > > and the obvious Joni content: > > "I'm gonna blow this damn candle out" > "look at those jokers glued to that damn hockey game" > > and the related: > > "Dang me, dang me, they're gonna take a rope and hang me" - Roger Miller > > Kakki "Well, I'll be damned, here comes your ghost again, but that's not unusual, it's just that the moon is full and you happened to call..." Diamonds and Rust, Joan Baez Gina NP: Woodstock - CSNY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:33:43 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Springsteen Video NJC In a message dated 2/4/99 5:23:37 PM Central Standard Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << And how do you know I don't prefer my men sweet smelling and in suits?!!!Actually, my taste is electic. Eyes and smiles do it every time! Sorry to assume, Colin...the blue collar aesthetic of the video matched the tone of the song, so I figured you'd appreciate it...:~) What does buff mean? I only know it as a colour. >> It means he was working out with weights prior to the LP & tour "Born In The USA", so his bod was "buff", well-toned... Bob NP: Radiohead, "nice dream" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:00:40 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Goat dancing videos/songs (VLJC) In a message dated 2/4/99 7:57:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, whuehn@stud.uni- goettingen.de writes: << Sexy songs: -- Quincy Jones -- Secret Garden -- INXS - Need You Tonight -- INXS -- Devil Inside -- John Lee Hooker/Bonnie Raitt -- I'm In The Mood -- Bonnie Raitt -- Love Letter -- Prince - If I was your girlfriend (Live Version from the Sign O' The Times video -- great horn section!) -- Martine Girault -- Revival and, here comes the JC, -- Joni -- Blue Motel Room >> Easy Now -- Eric Clapton ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 01:48:55 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC) Damn, You Get To Me Carly Simon (Hello Big Man '83) Ginamu@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/4/99 4:15:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net > writes: > > > This damn thread keeps growing - > > > > >damn. . .this traffic jam! - JT > > >damn everything but the circus! - ee > > >winter's a-comin' in! sing goddamn! - EP > > >damn the torpedoes! - (who?) > > >Damn the dam! -Busy Beaver > > >God damn the pusher (Steppenwolf) > > >Goddamn, dim them headlights! (Also JT, "Brother Trucker") > > >Don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam (Country Joe & The > > >Fish) > > >"Whooo is the maaan who would give his life for fellow man?" > > >"Shaft!" "Damn Right!" - Isaac Hayes > > >damn! I wish I was your lover - Sophie B. Hawkins > > >'cause everybody knows about Mississippi, goddamn! - Nina Simone > > > > to which I add: > > > > "Damn you, mister and I dragged him out the door" (Been On A Train - Laura > > Nyro) > > > > and the obvious Joni content: > > > > "I'm gonna blow this damn candle out" > > "look at those jokers glued to that damn hockey game" > > > > and the related: > > > > "Dang me, dang me, they're gonna take a rope and hang me" - Roger Miller > > > > Kakki > > "Well, I'll be damned, here comes your ghost again, but that's not unusual, > it's just that the moon is full and you happened to call..." Diamonds and > Rust, Joan Baez > > Gina > NP: Woodstock - CSNY - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 01:51:13 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Springsteen Video NJC Actually that should have read eclectic. And there is no need to apologise-I knew what you meant and yes the image does appeal. Different man for different moods. RMuRocks@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/4/99 5:23:37 PM Central Standard Time, > catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: > > << And how do you know I don't prefer my men sweet smelling and in > suits?!!!Actually, my taste is electic. Eyes and smiles do it every time! > > Sorry to assume, Colin...the blue collar aesthetic of the video matched the > tone of the song, so I figured you'd appreciate it...:~) > > What does buff mean? I only know it as a colour. >> > It means he was working out with weights prior to the LP & tour "Born In The > USA", so his bod was "buff", well-toned... > > Bob > > NP: Radiohead, "nice dream" - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:58:39 -0500 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC) "Damn, Damn, Damn....DAMN! I've grown accustomed to her face!" Rex Harrison as Professor Higgins in My Fair Lady Marsha, or something in the air.... From: catman Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC) >Damn, You Get To Me Carly Simon (Hello Big Man '83) > >Ginamu@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 2/4/99 4:15:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net >> writes: >> >> > This damn thread keeps growing - >> > >> > >damn. . .this traffic jam! - JT >> > >damn everything but the circus! - ee >> > >winter's a-comin' in! sing goddamn! - EP >> > >damn the torpedoes! - (who?) >> > >Damn the dam! -Busy Beaver >> > >God damn the pusher (Steppenwolf) >> > >Goddamn, dim them headlights! (Also JT, "Brother Trucker") >> > >Don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam (Country Joe & The >> > >Fish) >> > >"Whooo is the maaan who would give his life for fellow man?" >> > >"Shaft!" "Damn Right!" - Isaac Hayes >> > >damn! I wish I was your lover - Sophie B. Hawkins >> > >'cause everybody knows about Mississippi, goddamn! - Nina Simone >> > >> > to which I add: >> > >> > "Damn you, mister and I dragged him out the door" (Been On A Train - Laura >> > Nyro) >> > >> > and the obvious Joni content: >> > >> > "I'm gonna blow this damn candle out" >> > "look at those jokers glued to that damn hockey game" >> > >> > and the related: >> > >> > "Dang me, dang me, they're gonna take a rope and hang me" - Roger Miller >> > >> > Kakki >> >> "Well, I'll be damned, here comes your ghost again, but that's not unusual, >> it's just that the moon is full and you happened to call..." Diamonds and >> Rust, Joan Baez >> >> Gina >> NP: Woodstock - CSNY > > > >-- > >CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST >http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html >TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS >http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:02:49 -0500 (EST) From: bhillis@onramp.ca (Patricia Hillis) Subject: Murray's book HaaaaaH i made a typo in my previous message. the title of the book is: "Getting out of Here Alive" (not out of her!!!!) Pat Pat "life is for learning" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:03:17 -0500 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: Damns! (SJC) here you go, thread drift, njc and mild cussing all in one post. a trifecta! now if i could just get in some juicy gay content... kakki wrote >"Dang me, dang me, they're gonna take a rope and hang me" - Roger Miller to which i add 'whang dang doodle', a blues classic. i love koko taylor's version whoever started this thread should do a search of some huge song database on, damn, dang, darn, dern and write a little poem. i nominate marsha, too. patrick np - please, mr. johnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:24:57 +0800 (PST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC) Stephen Sondheim's OLD FRIEND "...here's to us, who's like us... damn few" On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, catman wrote: > Damn, You Get To Me Carly Simon (Hello Big Man '83) > > Ginamu@aol.com wrote: > > > > > This damn thread keeps growing - > > > > > > >damn. . .this traffic jam! - JT > > > >damn everything but the circus! - ee > > > >winter's a-comin' in! sing goddamn! - EP > > > >damn the torpedoes! - (who?) > > > >Damn the dam! -Busy Beaver > > > >God damn the pusher (Steppenwolf) > > > >Goddamn, dim them headlights! (Also JT, "Brother Trucker") > > > >Don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam (Country Joe & The > > > >Fish) > > > >"Whooo is the maaan who would give his life for fellow man?" > > > >"Shaft!" "Damn Right!" - Isaac Hayes > > > >damn! I wish I was your lover - Sophie B. Hawkins > > > >'cause everybody knows about Mississippi, goddamn! - Nina Simone > > > > > > to which I add: > > > > > > "Damn you, mister and I dragged him out the door" (Been On A Train - Laura > > > Nyro) > > > > > > and the obvious Joni content: > > > > > > "I'm gonna blow this damn candle out" > > > "look at those jokers glued to that damn hockey game" > > > > > > and the related: > > > > > > "Dang me, dang me, they're gonna take a rope and hang me" - Roger Miller > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:40:09 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC) In a message dated 2/4/99 10:02:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, trxschwa@bway.net writes: << i love koko taylor's version >> Oh, Koko is GREAT! Have you ever seen her perform? What a lady-- Terry ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #58 ************************* There is now a JMDL tape trading list. 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