From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #58
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
Precedence: bulk
JMDL Digest Thursday, February 4 1999 Volume 04 : Number 058
The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes
by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery
username: jimdle password: siquomb
-------
The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more.
-------
The JMDL website can be found at and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
==========
TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
Re: Unanswered Questions (JC) [dsk ]
Re: Cosmetic Surgery ["Eric Taylor" ]
Re: NJC: Re: Lack of JC; ->Long [M.Russell@iaea.org]
Re: (VLJC) - Dee Carstensen ["Winfried Hühn" ]
Re: damn! (njc) ["Don Rowe" ]
RE: damn! (njc) [Michael Yarbrough ]
Re: damn! (njc) ["Winfried Hühn" ]
RE: Goat dancing songs (SJC) [Michael Yarbrough ]
NJC (NJC) [Steve Dulson ]
Lucinda Williams is tough (NJC) ["Eric G. Postel" ]
Re: damn! (njc) [Jerry Notaro ]
TESTING ["Peter Holmstedt" ]
Re: Goat dancing songs/Videos (SJC) ["Don Rowe" ]
noooooooJC! ["P. Henry" ]
Re: damn (NJC) [David Wright ]
Re: noooooooJC! ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ]
Re: damn! (njc) [MHart16164@aol.com]
Re: noooooooJC! [Randy Remote ]
Re: divided concert [Debra Kaufman ]
Tonight I'm going dancing with the drag queens and the punks [Bounced Mes]
Re: damn! (njc) ["Don Rowe" ]
Re: Lucinda Williams is tough [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
Springsteen Video NJC [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
Your reactions to STAS [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
Re: noooooooJC! ["Winfried Hühn" ]
Re: Joni/TV movies [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
Re: noooooooJC! ["Winfried Hühn" ]
Re: Damns! (SJC) ["Kakki" ]
Re: Damns! (SJC) ["Don Rowe" ]
Re: noooooooJC! ["M & C Urbanski" ]
Re: Damns! (SJC) ["M & C Urbanski" ]
Re: noooooooJC! [RickieLee1@aol.com]
Re: Springsteen Video NJC [catman ]
Re: NJC: Re: Lack of JC; ->Long [The Humphreys ]
Re: (VLJC) - Dee Carstensen ["Steve Garrison" ]
Re: damn! (njc) [The Humphreys ]
Goat dancing videos/songs (VLJC) ["Winfried Hühn" ]
Re: Damns! (SJC) [Ginamu@aol.com]
Re: Springsteen Video NJC [RMuRocks@aol.com]
Re: Goat dancing videos/songs (VLJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
Re: Damns! (SJC) [catman ]
Re: Springsteen Video NJC [catman ]
Re: Damns! (SJC) ["Marsha" ]
Murray's book [bhillis@onramp.ca (Patricia Hillis)]
RE: Damns! (SJC) [patrick leader ]
Re: Damns! (SJC) [Joseph Palis ]
Re: Damns! (SJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 03:04:53 -0400
From: dsk
Subject: Re: Unanswered Questions (JC)
Ginamu@aol.com wrote:
>
> 1) I've been to the Elvis Costello Homepage looking for the Vanity Fair
> article where he praises the song Shades Of Shades Conquering, but I've been
> unable to find it. Can anyone transcribe this part and post it? I do sooooo
> want to read exactly what he said.
Gina, don't have any info about questions 2 & 3, but remember this from
one of my favorite articles about Joni, which was in Vanity Fair June
1997. It's on the JMDL web site articles list -- "Lady of the Canyon",
by Bill Flanagan:
Elvis Costello says that he has purchased every Mitchell album since the
first. He recalls skipping school in Liverpool to take the train to
Manchester and lining up for tickets to see Mitchell play. "She's
compared to the wrong people," he said after a concert in New York. "The
people that have been overtly influenced by her, with the possible
exception of Prince, are nowhere near as good as she is. Her range is
much greater. You know the line in 'Shades of Scarlet Conquering'—
'Dressed in stolen clothes she stands / Cast-iron and frail / With her
impossibly gentle hands / And her blood-red fingernails'? If many
songwriters wrote a description as good as that in their whole careers,
they would be blessed— and there are five or six lines that good in that
one song! It's not just that she has no rivals among female
singer-songwriters. She has very few peers among any songwriters."
Cool, huh? You can probably do a search of the articles to get answers
to your other questions.
Debra Shea
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:35:47 -0500
From: "Eric Taylor"
Subject: Re: Cosmetic Surgery
Lisa Peakes wrote:
<>
What a wonderful perspective, Lisa! You somehow make me feel comfortable
enough to share this story.
Back in 1975 I met a beautiful woman whom everyone still says looks a
lot like Joni. Her name is June and I fell in love with her. I had no idea
that she was 50 at the time. She looked 30-something, smoked cigarettes most
of her life, and has never had any plastic surgery. Twenty-some years later,
June is still an amazingly attractive woman and doesn't look a day over 50.
As a matter of fact, she looks better than many 20-year-olds and still bares
a remarkable resemblance to Joni. June still smokes (Carltons) and wants to
get a facelift but is afraid of going under the blade.
I've often wondered how June maintains such a youthful face and body.
Yes, she religiously applies expensive beauty potions and eats non-fat
everything. Yes, she bleaches her hair blond, although she wishes that she'd
finally turn gray. But I think the real secret is that she gets plenty of
sleep and laughs a lot. Plus, she is a good-hearted soul who feeds every
stray she sees, and absolutely loves Nature. I swear June spends more money
saving rainforests, donating to animal shelters, and feeding deer (3 pounds
of cracked corn per day) than most people spend investing in the stock
market!
June is not a Joni fan but she just loves Last Chance Lost. And when I
played her the video of Comes Love she melted. Then, transfixed by Song For
Sharon, June blurted out: "You know, she is really amazing!" When I told her
that those pleasing sounds came from Joni's guitar, she finally grasped my
profound admiration for our Lady of the canyon.
E.T.
NP: Song To A Seagull
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:32:49 +0100
From: M.Russell@iaea.org
Subject: Re: NJC: Re: Lack of JC; ->Long
On Wed, 03 Feb 1999 01:53:44 -0500 "Jim L'Hommedieu"
wrote:
* My point: Tolerance is a key concept to the JMDL.
I loved your remarks about tolerance, Jim.
* I enjoy hearing news about political struggles and everyday
* life in places other than the USA! I wish there was more of
* that on the JMDL. It never occured to me that in Austria you
* can't get Chinese food for example.
Where did you hear this??? In Austria, you can't go shopping on Sunday. In
Austria, the whole country pretty much shuts down between midnight and 5
a.m. In Austria, if you try to stand politely in line and wait your turn,
it's likely you'll be standing there the whole day! But there are lots of
Chinese restaurants, and some pretty good ones, too. Maybe you meant to say
Mexican food? Although there are a few Mexican restaurants, the food never
seems quite hot enough - never seems quite right. I don't know of any
Vietnamese restaurants here either.
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:14:20 +0100
From: "Winfried Hühn"
Subject: Re: (VLJC) - Dee Carstensen
Joseph Palis schrieb:
> PS. Heard a certain singer named Dee Cartensten (sp?) admitted on TV that
> she likes Joni most. Makes me want to check out Dee's albums all of a
> sudden as if I already knew her.
The correct name is Dee Carstensen, who BTW happens to be the wife of jazz
musician Mike Manieri. I too saw an interview a couple of weeks ago (I think
it was CNN WorldBeat) where she was one of the featured artists at some
Canadian music festival. She was addressed to as the "New Joni Mitchell"
(yawn), but the music they featured sounded quite nice indeed and because I'm
currently digging harp music anyway (BTW anybody know that excellent Scottish
harp duo Sileas?), I bought her album "The Map".
I haven't listened to it that much to give a final and balanced review yet,
but musically, my initial reaction was one of mild disappointment. The lyrics
are pretty good, but IMO still clearly fall short of the standard set and
maintained by Joni. (certainly no surprise)
Best,
Winfried
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:29:09 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: Cosmetic Surgery
> June is not a Joni fan but she just loves Last Chance Lost. And when
I
> played her the video of Comes Love she melted. Then, transfixed by Song
For
> Sharon, June blurted out: "You know, she is really amazing!" When I told
her
> that those pleasing sounds came from Joni's guitar, she finally grasped
my
> profound admiration for our Lady of the canyon.
> E.T.
I dub you "Eric the Evangelist!" Let's give a big hand to brother Eric for
bringing one more over to the queendom of Joni!
Marilyn
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 06:52:24 PST
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Re: damn! (njc)
Partick writes ...
>damn, i wish i was your lover
>
>sophie b. hawkins, certified one-hit wonder
>
And it's a damn shame! The girl rocks!
Don Rowe
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:44:28 -0500
From: Michael Yarbrough
Subject: RE: damn! (njc)
Patrick wrote
<<>>
Um, make that two-hit. I don't remember the name of the other
tune, but it went "Now I lay me down to sleep/This I pray/That
you will hold me dear/Though I'm far away I whisper your name/
something something something/And I will make you happy."
And they actually came from two different albums, "Damn I
Wish..." being from _Tongues and Tails_ and the second one
from _Whaler_.
And she, either in addition to or instead of Sarah McLachlan,
has famously proclaimed herself "omnisexual."
- --Michael
NP: Remy Zero, _Villa Elaine_
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 16:17:31 +0100
From: "Winfried Hühn"
Subject: Re: damn! (njc)
Don Rowe wrote:
> Partick writes ...
>
> >damn, i wish i was your lover
> >
> >sophie b. hawkins, certified one-hit wonder
> >
> And it's a damn shame! The girl rocks!
>
> Don Rowe
>
Yep. It's one of the sexiest rock songs I know. Also a cute, cute,
videoclip, as far as I remember. BTW, sexy songs/videoclips -- have we
had that thread topic yet? (I slightly remember something like that in
connection to that "goat dance" thread...?)
Winfried
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:44:59 -0500
From: Michael Yarbrough
Subject: RE: Goat dancing songs (SJC)
Winfried asked:
<<>>
I don't have cable, so I'm not so good on the video tip (though
those USC swim team boys from Madonna's "Cherish" *have*
to be mentioned. Bay-bee!!).
As far as songs go, Aaliyah's "Are You That Somebody?" has
had me screaming "Yes, girl, I am!" for almost a year now,
though I like even better to cast myself *as* Aaliyah and seduce
some unsuspecting boy into submission. Not my normal
personality type, but hey, if the rope fits...
Alex Chilton's voice on some Big Star cuts is as f**kable as
any I've heard. And the live performances of NYC
gender-blender Raven-O are a little, um, exciting. The Ginuwine
cover of Prince's "When Doves Cry" is hot; Cassandra Wilson's
rendition of U2's "Love Is Blindness" is cool. In a completely
different way I think "Crazy Cries" is as delectably erotic as
anything Joni's done.
And, you know, sometimes Randy Travis's voice can really
get me going.
- --Michael, oh no I've said too much
NP: Patti Smith, _Horses_
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:12:24 -0700
From: Steve Dulson
Subject: NJC (NJC)
Paul Tyrer wrote:
>Well well. Recent postings about NJC were very interesting, weren't they?
>They really turned out, surprise surprise, to be difficult feelings about
>gay NJC.
No, Paul, my postings (at least) about NJC turned out to be, surprise
surprise, about NJC and the divisivness (sp?) it can generate, and I
resent any other characterization of them.
##############################################################
Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com
"The Tinker's Own"
http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html
"Southern California Dulcimer Heritage"
http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/
"The Living Tradition Concert Series"
(Website soon!)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:38:52 -0500
From: "Eric G. Postel"
Subject: Lucinda Williams is tough (NJC)
I know there are big Lucinda fans on the list so pardon the use of
bandwidth for this. Saw Lucinda and her band last night in Madison and
they were really really hot. And she is really a tough lady -- her
original drummer who had played with her for 10 years died yesterday in
Austin. She did the show in Madison anyway but was clearly affected by the
loss and mentioned it in the concert. Many songs about death, etc. and she
never smiled and stood very straight and still. Seemed on the verge of
tears several times. But then, as happens to listeners and musicians alike
sometimes, the music (or the sold out crowd) must have got to her and
lightened the load. By the second encore (and the encores were almost as
long as the main show), she was smiling (broadly) and the band was fired
up. Wonderful concert -- go see them.
Cheers,
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 16:51:09 +0000
From: catman
Subject: Re: Goat dancing songs (SJC)
Haven't seen a video to it but the song that immediately comes to mind
is I'm On Fire by Bruce Springstien Not bad considering I am not into
male singers at all. But thius song gives me ideas goosebumps.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:05:21 -0400
From: Jerry Notaro
Subject: Re: damn! (njc)
patrick leader wrote:
> damn, i wish i was your lover
>
> sophie b. hawkins, certified one-hit wonder
>
> patrick
How about As I Lay Me Down? That was also a big hit.
Jerry
np: Patti Austin - Smoke Gets In Your Eyes
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:04:50 +0100
From: "Peter Holmstedt"
Subject: TESTING
testing testing testing
sorry for the use of bw
p.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 09:50:34 PST
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Re: Goat dancing songs/Videos (SJC)
I'll put dos pesos in on this one ...
Video ... well there's "Wicked Game" by Chris Isaak, just about any
video Janet Jackson's ever done ... "Express Yourself" by Madonna ...
Songs ... "How Do You Stop", "My Secret Place", "Underneath the
Streetlight", "Come In From The Cold", Brian Ferry -- "Slave to Love",
Frankie Goes To Hollywood - "Relax", John Hiatt -- "My Sweet Girl",
Steve Winwood -- "Higher Love" and so many more, depending on mood ...
Don Rowe
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 17:50:33 -0000
From: "P. Henry"
Subject: noooooooJC!
well, it looks like most of you have 'weighed in' on this thing... and I give up! not only am I credited with/blamed for things which I do *not* say or intend, but nobody has bothered to address the points I *did* state... (which I won't bother to repeat... you can always go beck if you want to read them) nevertheless, you apparently have *your* list the way you want it and that's that...
oh yes and colin, thank you so much for putting me in my place... I feel much better now that I know that as a new person on the list my opinions are neither valid nor welcome.
to all of you who feel it's so great to have sexual, political and religious rants so long you can, as someone said, sometimes delete entire digests full of NJC in this forum supposedly about Joni Mitchell without missing a thing and have so eloquently expressed your rationalizations affirming your position, I recommend that you save your posts to archive so that you'll be ready the next time a new person mistakenly wanders in here because they love Joni's music and wonder why they're getting all this other junk! it's happened before and it will happen again because I happen to be right!
and one last thing while I'm at it: several of you... more than a few... have mentioned that you think/feel that Joni's music is boring and that just talking about that and about her would be boring... (a disgrace as far as I'm concerned!) well, go to the JMDL archive page and open up the '96 list archive if you want to see how 'boring' it is.
I'll tell you what boring is... I wouldn't spend 5 seconds in a forum on sexuality, religion or politics because I couldn't imagine anything more boring! further, it amazes me that anyone could line those things up on the same shelf with Joni!
no, I think many of you, though sincere, are innocent victims, scammed and convinced by a few, who, in one or more of these 3 areas, have their own agenda and are intruding on and using this forum inappropriately to promote their own cause and are not really as enthralled with Joni as you are... take heed... pat
Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:00:05 -0500 (EST)
From: David Wright
Subject: Re: damn (NJC)
Tom Ross wrote:
> thinking of a 'Damn!' song and I need more! so far:
the best, I think: Nina Simone, "...'cause everybody knows about
Mississippi goddam!" (her spelling)
- --David
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:14:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)"
Subject: Re: noooooooJC!
Amazing. Such a lengthy post criticizing those who are doing the very same
thing you are doing, i.e., contributing your thoughts to the list about
something other than Joni's music.
Jerry
On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, P. Henry wrote:
> well, it looks like most of you have 'weighed in' on this thing... and I give up! not only am I credited with/blamed for things which I do *not* say or intend, but nobody has bothered to address the points I *did* state... (which I won't bother to repeat... you can always go beck if you want to read them) nevertheless, you apparently have *your* list the way you want it and that's that...
> oh yes and colin, thank you so much for putting me in my place... I feel much better now that I know that as a new person on the list my opinions are neither valid nor welcome.
> to all of you who feel it's so great to have sexual, political and religious rants so long you can, as someone said, sometimes delete entire digests full of NJC in this forum supposedly about Joni Mitchell without missing a thing and have so eloquently expressed your rationalizations affirming your position, I recommend that you save your posts to archive so that you'll be ready the next time a new person mistakenly wanders in here because they love Joni's music and wonder why they're getting all this other junk! it's happened before and it will happen again because I happen to be right!
> and one last thing while I'm at it: several of you... more than a few... have mentioned that you think/feel that Joni's music is boring and that just talking about that and about her would be boring... (a disgrace as far as I'm concerned!) well, go to the JMDL archive page and open up the '96 list archive if you want to see how 'boring' it is.
> I'll tell you what boring is... I wouldn't spend 5 seconds in a forum on sexuality, religion or politics because I couldn't imagine anything more boring! further, it amazes me that anyone could line those things up on the same shelf with Joni!
> no, I think many of you, though sincere, are innocent victims, scammed and convinced by a few, who, in one or more of these 3 areas, have their own agenda and are intruding on and using this forum inappropriately to promote their own cause and are not really as enthralled with Joni as you are... take heed... pat
>
>
>
> Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:16:40 EST
From: MHart16164@aol.com
Subject: Re: damn! (njc)
In a message dated 99-02-04 12:16:15 EST, you write:
<< sophie b. hawkins, certified one-hit wonder >>
I heard that sophie once said in an interview that if she could change one
thing about her body she would add a tail.
I thought that was pretty cool because most people think in terms of their own
imperfections.
Michele
NP: Kate Bush Cloudbusting
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:21:15 -0800
From: Randy Remote
Subject: Re: noooooooJC!
> no, I think many of you, though sincere, are innocent victims, scammed and convinced by a few, who, in one or more of these 3 areas, have their own agenda
Or maybe just want to discuss and exchange their views........ which you have the freedom to join in on, or hit 'delete'
RR
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:37:03 -0500
From: Debra Kaufman
Subject: Re: divided concert
>My point is that we don't spend enough time putting things together. It
>reminds me of a concert I attended once. The band divided the audience
>down the middle and asked those on each side to try to sing louder than
>the other side. By the end of the song, each side was booing the other
>side! Three Dog Night's front man said, "Wow! These are your
>*neighbors* you guys."
This reminds me of a story I read in the WONDERFUL biography of Louis
Armstrong (as much a history of jazz, since he was born into the beginning
of the jazz era). Not surprisingly, Satchmo was as popular with white folks
as he was with black, but in the early days of jazz the audiences were
always separate. He'd play river boats (white audience) and brothels and
clubs and funerals (for blacks). In the 40s, when the big band sound was
popular, the All Stars were to play in a ballroom in some city in the
South, I forget which--where the two races had never been together as an
audience. So the owners put a chickenwire fence down the middle of the
ballroom to keep the races apart. Isn't that amazing? They were all there
grooving to this swinging music, but physically divided.
Sometimes we forget how recently this all was...
DK
******************************************************************
"It's not what you say, but mostly how you feel it."
Tim Buckley
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:37:26 -0700
From: Bounced Message
Subject: Tonight I'm going dancing with the drag queens and the punks
From: "paul tyrer"
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:18:09 -0000
Well well. Recent postings about NJC were very interesting, weren't they?
They really turned out, surprise surprise, to be difficult feelings about
gay NJC. I'm sure gay and lesbian subscribers to the list will heave yet
another huge sigh and just say get over it. P. Henry and others may have
great stories about knowing or meeting Joni to fill up their posts, but I
don't. And even if I did, I wouldn't want to restrict myself solely to
talking about that meeting on this list, or sticking strictly to talking
about Joni's musical or lyrical production. I'm a richer canvas than that -
everyone is. And a list of people only ever able to talk about Joni's
music - no matter how much we love that music - would deny us the broader
humanity that makes jmdl worthwhile. People who hate (gay) NJC - people who
really hate it - should maybe ask themselves why they hate it when they
have a scroll button and (I hope) better things to be doing than reading
posts they don't wanna read.
Anyway, I for one really hope Colin comes back - cos he was one of the
shiniest things on this list. But if he didn't, I wouldn't blame him.
Paul
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:53:12 PST
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Re: damn! (njc)
<< sophie b. hawkins, certified one-hit wonder >>
>I heard that sophie once said in an interview that if she could change
one
>thing about her body she would add a tail.
>
You know, the more I find out about sophie b, the more I like her.
First that magnificent "omnisexual" quip and now this. One of my
childhood fantasies was to have a tail, so that I could have a tail
flipping fight with Levinson my cat ... have at it dr. sigmonde! :-)
Don Rowe
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:48:19 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re: Lucinda Williams is tough
Eric reviewed:
< By the second encore (and the encores were almost
as long as the main show), she was smiling (broadly) and the band was fired
up. Wonderful concert -- go see them.>>
Thanks for the review, Eric! Unfortunately I missed her when she came through
last time but I won't next time...sounds like you got a really special
performance. And no need to ask for a pardon, Greg Liesz has played with both
Lucinda & Joni so there's only *one* degree of separation...
And it's *already* killin me that new releases from either of these two are
years away...
And speaking of encores, I read on the Elvis C. website that his shows featured
2 and 3 encores, sometimes 12-15 songs total. Serious encore action!
Bob
NP: Lafayette Thomas "Old Memories"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:57:06 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Springsteen Video NJC
Catman, no longer vanting to be alone, says:
<>
Colin, I'm no vidoephile but being a Bruce fan I do remember the video
for this song - Bruce is an auto mechanic, working on a luxury car for
some lady who lives in the mansion on the hill. He drives the car back
to her place, goes to the front door entertaining fantasies of him &
her, but then puts the keys in the mailbox and leaves as he knows he
can't compete in her social strata. You'd like it, Bruce is buff and
sweaty and wearing tight T-shirts as I recall...
Bob
NP: Jimmy Rogers, "Rock This House"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:04:58 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Your reactions to STAS
Pat,
Do you recall the first time you heard STAS, and listened to these new
songs that Joni had recorded. You'd been hearing her live for awhile,
and all of a sudden there's this clump of songs about Michael &
Marcie...did you know what she was specifically addressing since you
were 'inner circle'
How about "Cactus Tree"? I see lines like "There's a man who sent a
letter..." & "There's a man who sends her medals..". Did/Do you know
who she's singing about? Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here but I'd
be interested to hear your take on some of these songs with what was
going on at the time...
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 20:52:16 +0100
From: "Winfried Hühn"
Subject: Re: noooooooJC!
P. Henry wrote:
>
> to all of you who feel it's so great to have sexual, political and religious rants so long you can, as someone said, sometimes delete entire digests full of NJC in this forum supposedly about Joni Mitchell without missing a thing and have so eloquently expressed your rationalizations affirming your position, I recommend that you save your posts to archive so that you'll be ready the next time a new person mistakenly wanders in here because they love Joni's music and wonder why they're getting all this other junk! it's happened before and it will happen again because I happen to be right!
Sorry, Pat. You just will have to accept the attitude of the clear
majority of people contributing to this list -- anything goes, apart
from personal insults and related misbehaviors. And I request you do it
politely without insulting people who just happen to think differently
on this issue. We had polls with a clear outcome, so your attempt to
turn the majority into a minority is deemed to fail.
This is an unmoderated list (Thanks Les, for your wonderful, wonderful
job) entirely depending on the input of its regular contributors. They
are the ones who decide what to talk about and what not. It is
absolutely irrelevant what you or I regard as "junk" or "boring" etc.
etc. The only thing that matters is that there are people who wish to
discuss about a certain issue and that they wish to do it here because
they want to discuss it with other Joni-fans.
The argument that this is "Joni-list" does not justify the conclusion
that is is a "Just-Joni" or even "almost Just-Joni" list. First of all,
there is still enough Joni content here to clearly distinguish this list
from lists with other agendas. Secondly, this list is as much about Joni
as about her fans, i.e. us. Most importantly, it is there *for* us.
Since we are humans and not robots, it is the most normal thing in the
world to socialize. The only way this is possible over the internet is
to talk about ourselves, who we are, what we are doing, how we are
seeing things, what else we have
in common besides our affection for Joni. There is a social dimension to
this list. To deny it is nonsensical, and to supress it would in fact be
inhumane.
The amount of JC/NJC varies, as one can expect it to. When Joni was
touring, we had almost 80-90% JC, and people suggesting NJC topics to
talk about got no or little reaction. At this moment, the scale has
shifted to a higher amount of NJC. It might be different again next
week.
Within these perimeters, all that Joni-purists are entitled to is to
express their viewpoint and to advertise for it. Most certainly, they
can also expect a fair amount of politeness and regard from everybody
else. But in turn they should also politely accept the majority opinion
here.
That's what I would like to ask you to do.
Winfried
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:27:56 EST
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: Joni/TV movies
In a message dated 2/3/99 3:59:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, scam@freeway.net
writes:
<<
The closing scene in the First episode of thirtysomething faded out to
Circle game. River was prominantly featured in a holiday episode where
Hope and Michael were playing tug of war over which faith to celebrate
(Jewish or Christian).
I gotta admit, Paul, this feels really good. Now I know why you do it :-)
You still sing better than me, and play a mean 6 handed cribbage! >>
I sit corrected. Thanks, Sue, for unconfusing me on the TWO episodes of
thirtysomething that used Joni songs.
Paul I
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:42:28 +0100
From: "Winfried Hühn"
Subject: Re: noooooooJC!
Sorry to speak up again on this, but now I have to correct myself:
Winfried Hühn wrote:
> This is an unmoderated list (Thanks Les, for your wonderful, wonderful
> job) entirely depending on the input of its regular contributors. They
> are the ones who decide what to talk about and what not.
Of course, this lists depends on the input of *everybody* who posts to it. Regular or irregular doesn't matter.
Needless to say, people who just or mostly lurk are welcome to do so. It does not make them second class members either.
They can only be invited and encouraged to speak up, and this is another argument in favor of discussing many different topics, because it increases the opportunities to join and lowers the threshold for newbies. If people still just want to read what others write, that's fine too.
But then they also have to accept that they have no influence on this list's content and on the topics being discussed.
Winfried
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:03:57 -0800
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC)
This damn thread keeps growing -
>damn. . .this traffic jam! - JT
>damn everything but the circus! - ee
>winter's a-comin' in! sing goddamn! - EP
>damn the torpedoes! - (who?)
>Damn the dam! -Busy Beaver
>God damn the pusher (Steppenwolf)
>Goddamn, dim them headlights! (Also JT, "Brother Trucker")
>Don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam (Country Joe & The
>Fish)
>"Whooo is the maaan who would give his life for fellow man?"
>"Shaft!" "Damn Right!" - Isaac Hayes
>damn! I wish I was your lover - Sophie B. Hawkins
>'cause everybody knows about Mississippi, goddamn! - Nina Simone
to which I add:
"Damn you, mister and I dragged him out the door" (Been On A Train - Laura
Nyro)
and the obvious Joni content:
"I'm gonna blow this damn candle out"
"look at those jokers glued to that damn hockey game"
and the related:
"Dang me, dang me, they're gonna take a rope and hang me" - Roger Miller
Kakki
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:48:23 PST
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC)
Kakki writes ...
>This damn thread keeps growing -
>
Surely we haven't forgotten, but just in case ...
My girl killed our unborn child
Without even grievin'!
I put my hands on her belly
To feel the kid kickin'--damn!
She'd been to some clinic --
- -- Joni Mitchell "Beat of Black Wings"
Don Rowe
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:55:42 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: noooooooJC!
> Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 12:50 PM
> > and one last thing while I'm at it: several of you... more than a
few... have mentioned that you think/feel that Joni's music is boring and
that just talking about that and about her would be boring... (a disgrace
as far as I'm concerned!) well, go to the JMDL archive page and open up the
'96 list archive if you want to see how 'boring' it is.
pat
Excuse me...
But why are you cluttering up the list with all this BS? I didn't see you
answer 1 question on the Joni stats! I attempted a couple of times to have
a Joni content thread (along with a few others), and gee you didn't
participate. You supposedly knew her...what's her favorite drink? How did
she feel about kids? What did she say about her art? What was her
relationship with her father? Does she pick her nose? I don't think you
fucking know! I think all you're interested in is stirring up trouble and
getting attention albeit negative! Themes ebb and flow on this list but
you insist on beating this dead horse! Get off of it and give us some
fucking Joni content and quit whining! I think you have a control problem
go see a shrink!!!!
Marilyn
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:19:35 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC)
> Kakki writes ...
> >This damn thread keeps growing -
> >
> Surely we haven't forgotten, but just in case ...
>
> My girl killed our unborn child
> Without even grievin'!
> I put my hands on her belly
> To feel the kid kickin'--damn!
> She'd been to some clinic --
>
> -- Joni Mitchell "Beat of Black Wings"
Did we include from the PRV story...
"those yankees come up here and empty their builges in our (?) and they
don't spend an goddamn dime..."
frankly Scarlet, I don't give a damn!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:20:33 EST
From: RickieLee1@aol.com
Subject: Re: noooooooJC!
In a message dated 2/4/99 11:58:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, whuehn@stud.uni-
goettingen.de writes:
<< The argument that this is "Joni-list" does not justify the conclusion
that is is a "Just-Joni" or even "almost Just-Joni" list. First of all,
there is still enough Joni content here to clearly distinguish this list
from lists with other agendas. Secondly, this list is as much about Joni
as about her fans, i.e. us. Most importantly, it is there *for* us.
Since we are humans and not robots, it is the most normal thing in the
world to socialize. The only way this is possible over the internet is
to talk about ourselves, who we are, what we are doing, how we are
seeing things, what else we have
in common besides our affection for Joni. There is a social dimension to
this list. To deny it is nonsensical, and to supress it would in fact be
inhumane.
>>
well put winifried. thank you for saying it so well and articulating my
feelings for me, and i am sure, many many others. i am taken aback at the
vehemence of mr. henry but reassured by your moderate and wonderfully
reasonable response.
bless us, don't let us lose the drift.
peace, ric
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 23:14:06 +0000
From: catman
Subject: Re: Springsteen Video NJC
> . You'd like it, Bruce is buff and
> sweaty and wearing tight T-shirts as I recall...
And how do you know I don't prefer my men sweet smelling and in
suits?!!!Actually, my taste is electic. Eyes and smiles do it every time!
What does buff mean? I only know it as a colour.
>
>
> Bob
>
> NP: Jimmy Rogers, "Rock This House"
- --
CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html
TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:39:10 -0500
From: The Humphreys
Subject: Re: NJC: Re: Lack of JC; ->Long
Gee, it sounds alot like South Carolina, eh Bob? Suzanne
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:42:41 -0500
From: "Steve Garrison"
Subject: Re: (VLJC) - Dee Carstensen
Agreed. Whilst a jazz and vocals buyer at Tower Records I received audition
copies of her first couple of albums. Attempted to give them a fair listen,
but generally found myself a few tracks in doing the "Huh? Where was I?"
number. They have vanished from my collection and my recollection with
scarcely a trace or regret. Steve
- ----------
>From: "Winfried H¸hn"
>The correct name is Dee Carstensen, who BTW happens to be the wife of jazz
>musician Mike Manieri.
>I haven't listened to it that much to give a final and balanced review yet,
>but musically, my initial reaction was one of mild disappointment. The lyrics
>are pretty good, but IMO still clearly fall short of the standard set and
>maintained by Joni. (certainly no surprise)
>
>Best,
>Winfried
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:42:27 -0500
From: The Humphreys
Subject: Re: damn! (njc)
Did you see Sophie several years ago on Good Morning America? She sang,
"Damn, wish I was your lover". I thought Joan Lunden was going to have
a tizzy. Pretty funny at 7am. :-) Suzanne
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 00:53:33 +0100
From: "Winfried Hühn"
Subject: Goat dancing videos/songs (VLJC)
Erotic videos:
- -- most definitely Chris Isaak, Wicked Game
- -- Guesch Patti, Etienne
- -- and, if I may add, every video that has Sade in it, regardless of
what she does or wear.
Least erotic video
- -- Queen -- I Want To Break Free ;-)
Sexy songs:
- -- Quincy Jones -- Secret Garden
- -- INXS - Need You Tonight
- -- INXS -- Devil Inside
- -- John Lee Hooker/Bonnie Raitt -- I'm In The Mood
- -- Bonnie Raitt -- Love Letter
- -- Prince - If I was your girlfriend (Live Version from the Sign O' The
Times video -- great horn section!)
- -- Martine Girault -- Revival
and, here comes the JC,
- -- Joni -- Blue Motel Room
- -----------
X-Rated
- -----------
Salt'n Pepa -- Push It
James Brown -- Sex Machine
Prince -- Sexy Mother*beep*er
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:00:50 -0500
From: The Humphreys
Subject: Austria (NJC)
I just replied to the message that described shopping circumstances in
Austria, i.e. none on Sundays, etc. Unfortunately, the body of the
message I was replying to did not include itself...damn these
computers!:-) So anyway, the joke about South Carolina probably didn't
come off quite as "funny". Okay Bob? Sorry everyone out there...just
getting used to this piece of machine. Suzanne
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:15:58 EST
From: Ginamu@aol.com
Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC)
In a message dated 2/4/99 4:15:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net
writes:
> This damn thread keeps growing -
>
> >damn. . .this traffic jam! - JT
> >damn everything but the circus! - ee
> >winter's a-comin' in! sing goddamn! - EP
> >damn the torpedoes! - (who?)
> >Damn the dam! -Busy Beaver
> >God damn the pusher (Steppenwolf)
> >Goddamn, dim them headlights! (Also JT, "Brother Trucker")
> >Don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam (Country Joe & The
> >Fish)
> >"Whooo is the maaan who would give his life for fellow man?"
> >"Shaft!" "Damn Right!" - Isaac Hayes
> >damn! I wish I was your lover - Sophie B. Hawkins
> >'cause everybody knows about Mississippi, goddamn! - Nina Simone
>
> to which I add:
>
> "Damn you, mister and I dragged him out the door" (Been On A Train - Laura
> Nyro)
>
> and the obvious Joni content:
>
> "I'm gonna blow this damn candle out"
> "look at those jokers glued to that damn hockey game"
>
> and the related:
>
> "Dang me, dang me, they're gonna take a rope and hang me" - Roger Miller
>
> Kakki
"Well, I'll be damned, here comes your ghost again, but that's not unusual,
it's just that the moon is full and you happened to call..." Diamonds and
Rust, Joan Baez
Gina
NP: Woodstock - CSNY
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:33:43 EST
From: RMuRocks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Springsteen Video NJC
In a message dated 2/4/99 5:23:37 PM Central Standard Time,
catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes:
<< And how do you know I don't prefer my men sweet smelling and in
suits?!!!Actually, my taste is electic. Eyes and smiles do it every time!
Sorry to assume, Colin...the blue collar aesthetic of the video matched the
tone of the song, so I figured you'd appreciate it...:~)
What does buff mean? I only know it as a colour. >>
It means he was working out with weights prior to the LP & tour "Born In The
USA", so his bod was "buff", well-toned...
Bob
NP: Radiohead, "nice dream"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:00:40 EST
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: Goat dancing videos/songs (VLJC)
In a message dated 2/4/99 7:57:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, whuehn@stud.uni-
goettingen.de writes:
<< Sexy songs:
-- Quincy Jones -- Secret Garden
-- INXS - Need You Tonight
-- INXS -- Devil Inside
-- John Lee Hooker/Bonnie Raitt -- I'm In The Mood
-- Bonnie Raitt -- Love Letter
-- Prince - If I was your girlfriend (Live Version from the Sign O' The
Times video -- great horn section!)
-- Martine Girault -- Revival
and, here comes the JC,
-- Joni -- Blue Motel Room
>>
Easy Now -- Eric Clapton
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 01:48:55 +0000
From: catman
Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC)
Damn, You Get To Me Carly Simon (Hello Big Man '83)
Ginamu@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 2/4/99 4:15:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net
> writes:
>
> > This damn thread keeps growing -
> >
> > >damn. . .this traffic jam! - JT
> > >damn everything but the circus! - ee
> > >winter's a-comin' in! sing goddamn! - EP
> > >damn the torpedoes! - (who?)
> > >Damn the dam! -Busy Beaver
> > >God damn the pusher (Steppenwolf)
> > >Goddamn, dim them headlights! (Also JT, "Brother Trucker")
> > >Don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam (Country Joe & The
> > >Fish)
> > >"Whooo is the maaan who would give his life for fellow man?"
> > >"Shaft!" "Damn Right!" - Isaac Hayes
> > >damn! I wish I was your lover - Sophie B. Hawkins
> > >'cause everybody knows about Mississippi, goddamn! - Nina Simone
> >
> > to which I add:
> >
> > "Damn you, mister and I dragged him out the door" (Been On A Train - Laura
> > Nyro)
> >
> > and the obvious Joni content:
> >
> > "I'm gonna blow this damn candle out"
> > "look at those jokers glued to that damn hockey game"
> >
> > and the related:
> >
> > "Dang me, dang me, they're gonna take a rope and hang me" - Roger Miller
> >
> > Kakki
>
> "Well, I'll be damned, here comes your ghost again, but that's not unusual,
> it's just that the moon is full and you happened to call..." Diamonds and
> Rust, Joan Baez
>
> Gina
> NP: Woodstock - CSNY
- --
CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html
TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 01:51:13 +0000
From: catman
Subject: Re: Springsteen Video NJC
Actually that should have read eclectic. And there is no need to apologise-I
knew what you meant and yes the image does appeal.
Different man for different moods.
RMuRocks@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 2/4/99 5:23:37 PM Central Standard Time,
> catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes:
>
> << And how do you know I don't prefer my men sweet smelling and in
> suits?!!!Actually, my taste is electic. Eyes and smiles do it every time!
>
> Sorry to assume, Colin...the blue collar aesthetic of the video matched the
> tone of the song, so I figured you'd appreciate it...:~)
>
> What does buff mean? I only know it as a colour. >>
> It means he was working out with weights prior to the LP & tour "Born In The
> USA", so his bod was "buff", well-toned...
>
> Bob
>
> NP: Radiohead, "nice dream"
- --
CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html
TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:58:39 -0500
From: "Marsha"
Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC)
"Damn, Damn, Damn....DAMN!
I've grown accustomed to her face!"
Rex Harrison as Professor Higgins
in My Fair Lady
Marsha, or something in the air....
From: catman
Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC)
>Damn, You Get To Me Carly Simon (Hello Big Man '83)
>
>Ginamu@aol.com wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 2/4/99 4:15:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net
>> writes:
>>
>> > This damn thread keeps growing -
>> >
>> > >damn. . .this traffic jam! - JT
>> > >damn everything but the circus! - ee
>> > >winter's a-comin' in! sing goddamn! - EP
>> > >damn the torpedoes! - (who?)
>> > >Damn the dam! -Busy Beaver
>> > >God damn the pusher (Steppenwolf)
>> > >Goddamn, dim them headlights! (Also JT, "Brother Trucker")
>> > >Don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam (Country Joe & The
>> > >Fish)
>> > >"Whooo is the maaan who would give his life for fellow man?"
>> > >"Shaft!" "Damn Right!" - Isaac Hayes
>> > >damn! I wish I was your lover - Sophie B. Hawkins
>> > >'cause everybody knows about Mississippi, goddamn! - Nina Simone
>> >
>> > to which I add:
>> >
>> > "Damn you, mister and I dragged him out the door" (Been On A Train - Laura
>> > Nyro)
>> >
>> > and the obvious Joni content:
>> >
>> > "I'm gonna blow this damn candle out"
>> > "look at those jokers glued to that damn hockey game"
>> >
>> > and the related:
>> >
>> > "Dang me, dang me, they're gonna take a rope and hang me" - Roger Miller
>> >
>> > Kakki
>>
>> "Well, I'll be damned, here comes your ghost again, but that's not unusual,
>> it's just that the moon is full and you happened to call..." Diamonds and
>> Rust, Joan Baez
>>
>> Gina
>> NP: Woodstock - CSNY
>
>
>
>--
>
>CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST
>http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html
>TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS
>http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:02:49 -0500 (EST)
From: bhillis@onramp.ca (Patricia Hillis)
Subject: Murray's book
HaaaaaH
i made a typo in my previous message. the title of the book is:
"Getting out of Here Alive" (not out of her!!!!)
Pat
Pat
"life is for learning" - Joni Mitchell
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:03:17 -0500
From: patrick leader
Subject: RE: Damns! (SJC)
here you go, thread drift, njc and mild cussing all in one post. a
trifecta! now if i could just get in some juicy gay content...
kakki wrote
>"Dang me, dang me, they're gonna take a rope and hang me" - Roger Miller
to which i add 'whang dang doodle', a blues classic. i love koko taylor's
version
whoever started this thread should do a search of some huge song database
on, damn, dang, darn, dern and write a little poem. i nominate marsha,
too.
patrick
np - please, mr. johnson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:24:57 +0800 (PST)
From: Joseph Palis
Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC)
Stephen Sondheim's OLD FRIEND "...here's to us, who's like us... damn few"
On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, catman wrote:
> Damn, You Get To Me Carly Simon (Hello Big Man '83)
>
> Ginamu@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > This damn thread keeps growing -
> > >
> > > >damn. . .this traffic jam! - JT
> > > >damn everything but the circus! - ee
> > > >winter's a-comin' in! sing goddamn! - EP
> > > >damn the torpedoes! - (who?)
> > > >Damn the dam! -Busy Beaver
> > > >God damn the pusher (Steppenwolf)
> > > >Goddamn, dim them headlights! (Also JT, "Brother Trucker")
> > > >Don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam (Country Joe & The
> > > >Fish)
> > > >"Whooo is the maaan who would give his life for fellow man?"
> > > >"Shaft!" "Damn Right!" - Isaac Hayes
> > > >damn! I wish I was your lover - Sophie B. Hawkins
> > > >'cause everybody knows about Mississippi, goddamn! - Nina Simone
> > >
> > > to which I add:
> > >
> > > "Damn you, mister and I dragged him out the door" (Been On A Train - Laura
> > > Nyro)
> > >
> > > and the obvious Joni content:
> > >
> > > "I'm gonna blow this damn candle out"
> > > "look at those jokers glued to that damn hockey game"
> > >
> > > and the related:
> > >
> > > "Dang me, dang me, they're gonna take a rope and hang me" - Roger Miller
> > >
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:40:09 EST
From: TerryM2442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Damns! (SJC)
In a message dated 2/4/99 10:02:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, trxschwa@bway.net
writes:
<< i love koko taylor's
version >>
Oh, Koko is GREAT! Have you ever seen her perform? What a lady--
Terry
------------------------------
End of JMDL Digest V4 #58
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