From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #54 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, February 2 1999 Volume 04 : Number 054 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Sex, Politics, Religion, and all things NJC ["Kakki" ] Children First book/cd/cd-rom-JC hopefully [MP123A321@aol.com] Joni in Movies [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Re: Sex, Politics, Religion, and all things NJC ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: Joni in Movies [DKasc13293@aol.com] Re[2]: Joni in Movies [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re[2]: Am I a bad girl? (joni content) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] questions on joni stats ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: questions on joni stats [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Joni in Movies [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Joni in TV/Movies [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Sex, Politics & Religion ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re[2]: Joni in Movies (Oops, it's NJC now...) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: The Joni game ["Don Rowe" ] Re: questions on joni stats [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Joni representin' [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: The Joni game [MHart16164@aol.com] Re: questions on joni stats [Phyliss Ward ] Re: The Al Kooper Connection [DreamZvil@aol.com] Re: The Al Kooper Connection (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Marian Unplugged Report [Marian Russell ] Re: questions on joni stats ["Don Rowe" ] Re: questions on joni stats ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: Marian Unplugged Report [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Marian Unplugged Report [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] John Kelly [Wally Breese ] weighing in on NJC - Contains Joni content! [Bounced Message ] Re:Stuff Smith(NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: questions on joni stats ["Deb Messling" ] re: all things NJC [The Humphreys ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:50:58 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Sex, Politics, Religion, and all things NJC Evian wrote: >Thus, I decided against the Stevie list, simply because with stringent >rules like that, people cannot really get to know each other, and no >debate can be made. I pictured a few hundred people sitting front of >their computers draped in chiffon and raving over and over about the >same old things, and it gave me the willies.. LOL! Ooo, what an image - it sure gave me the willies, too! My thoughts about the list is that it is like having 150 cable channels from all over the world to choose to tune in. To me, it is a little like having the cyber-equivalent of CNN, Comedy Central, History Channel, Arts & Entertainment, Game Shows, MTV, VH-1, Biography, World Politics, Tabloid TV etc., etc. I *always* like to catch the Joni channel but some days I also like to watch CNN, tune in to a new historical perspective, hear about some other music or just have a good laugh. If we just had one big Joni Superstation, we would sure have to watch a lot of reruns everyday, with no option to change the channel. Reruns are great for those who missed the first airing, but after the fifth or sixth airing, some people may want to see what else is on. Even if there was a rule to make the list 100% pure Joni, there would be no way to filter out references to other topics, no matter how hard one tried to purify their posts. A discussion of Facelift evolves into discussing Joni's mother which evolves into discussing her Irish grandmother, and before you know it someone has made a connection that Joni's great-granny used to play pinocle with Van Morrison's great aunt and there you go..... Another thing I've never quite understood here is how some people feel upset if they post something and it does not turn into a thread. Maybe I'm dense, but I never thought that was supposed to be the only purpose of a post. Some posts can be brilliant and wonderful but may, unfortunately, get lost in the shuffle sometimes. But that does not mean that they aren't worthy or that the person who posted is being snubbed. Some people's one post says it all sometimes, and there is no need to comment, argue, fuss or fight over it. Some other posts are like bulletin board announcements to me, passing along some news or updated information on Joni or other musicians and not singularly meant to be a thread starter. I read it all. Some posts catch my attention more than others, but that does not mean that the other posts are not worthy, it just means they appeal to something individual in me. I'm grateful for the diversity - it opens up and exercises my brain and that, to me, is invaluable. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:33:11 EST From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: Children First book/cd/cd-rom-JC hopefully I believe Joni, Neil Young, Clapton may have lent a song to a new CD release, "Children First: A Celebration of Children.'' I have done some preliminary research, no confirmation yet. Anyone know more? Here is the site that the CD is listed on. http://www.bossmodels.com/childrenfirst.html ( nice pictures of models , if no Joni pics.) Maurice ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 23:48:44 +1100 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Joni in Movies This is just rambling but... why when then mention Joni in movies/t.v shows etc, do they always use her earlier music, like from Blue or from Clouds? i.e. Party of Five episode ' River' You've Got Mail 'River' and 'Both Sides Now' E.R. episode 'A Case of You' I can't think of any more off the top of my head. Does anyone have any theories? I assume that perhaps it is more commercial, more accessible? What other shows/movies have mentioned Joni songs and what were they? Vanessa. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:45:17 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Sex, Politics, Religion, and all things NJC > My thoughts about the list is that it is like having 150 cable channels from > all over the world to choose to tune in. To me, it is a little like having > the cyber-equivalent of CNN, Comedy Central, History Channel, Arts & > Entertainment, Game Shows, MTV, VH-1, Biography, World Politics, Tabloid TV > etc., etc. I *always* like to catch the Joni channel but some days I also > like to watch CNN, tune in to a new historical perspective, hear about some > other music or just have a good laugh. If we just had one big Joni > Superstation, we would sure have to watch a lot of reruns everyday, with no > option to change the channel. Reruns are great for those who missed the > first airing, but after the fifth or sixth airing, some people may want to > see what else is on. (SNIP) > I read it all. Some posts catch > my attention more than others, but that does not mean that the other posts > are not worthy, it just means they appeal to something individual in me. > I'm grateful for the diversity - it opens up and exercises my brain and > that, to me, is invaluable. > > Kakki Kakki, You are just so articulate! To that I say "Yeah me too"! And by the way, I like lettuce, tomato and mayo on my bandwidth. Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:02:03 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Joni in Movies > This is just rambling but... > > why when then mention Joni in movies/t.v shows etc, do they always use > her earlier music, like from Blue or from Clouds? > > i.e. Party of Five episode ' River' > You've Got Mail 'River' and 'Both Sides Now' > E.R. episode 'A Case of You' > > I can't think of any more off the top of my head. Does anyone have any > theories? > > I assume that perhaps it is more commercial, more accessible? What > other shows/movies have mentioned Joni songs and what were they? > > Vanessa. > No No Vanessa, This is not "just rambling" This is a 100% pure JC question! Anyhow, IMO, Joni's earlier music was more popular, people recognize "early Joni". Not this new "crap" she's put out. It's all part of the conspiracy theory ya know! The industry is punishing her and sending her a message at the same time to produce those wonderful folky love (heart broken) songs again like a good girl! You know - be the Carole King - produce the snappy hits machine! Marilyn P.S. I remember watching some T.V. movie way back in the late 70's about an anorexic girl. "Songs To Aging Children Come" was part of that movie. Anybody remember seeing that? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:48:50 EST From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Movies Sex Kills - Melrose Place How Do You Stop - The Real World (London) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:53:04 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Joni in Movies Marilyn comments: <> I'll go you one more, Marilyn, 99% of the folks out there aren't even aware that Joni continued putting out great stuff or *any* work for that matter since C&S. In Atlanta, there was a couple sitting in front of us that seemed to be Joni fans, so I struck up a conversation - they said they were Joni fans, but didn't know about TTT, probably didn't know much of what Joni had done over the last 20 years. Blame some of that on the marketplace, but it seems beyond this group of people here, folks just are content to brand Joni as the "California folkie with love in her eyes and flowers in her hair"...pity. Bob NP: Barry White. "I'm Gonna Love You Just a Little More Baby" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:02:05 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Am I a bad girl? (joni content) Ric, Ric, Ric says: <> FWIW, on more than one ocassion I have asked for a discount with doctors & dentists for their delays in seeing me. It doesn't always work but it has sometimes - They won't charge for an X-Ray or something like that, but if nothing else, it may make them more aware of your schedule next time 'round. Of course, if nothing else you can always rip off their magazines...;~D Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:09:20 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: questions on joni stats I have so many questions about Joni... 1. did she vow never to have anymore kids because of Kilauren? 2. does she take her cats to Vancouver when she stays there? 3. who watches her cats when she's on the road? 4. does she have any gray hair yet/ does she dye her hair? 5. other than swimming, does she work out? 6. does she have a favorite alcoholic beverage? 7. does she sell her original paintings? 8. what kind of car(s) does own? 9. Is her father still alive? 10. what are Chuck's feelings about her keeping the "Mitchell" name? 11. does she have to pay chuck royalties? 12. does she financially support her parents? 13. does she have duel citizenship? 14. what's her favorite country/city to visit? 15. has she ever tried her hand at sculpting? oh I guess that's enough for now...(please excuse if there are any repetitious questions from pervious posts) Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:28:51 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: questions on joni stats Enquiring Marilyn needs to know: I have so many questions about Joni... <<4. does she have any gray hair yet/ does she dye her hair?>> No gray, because "yes" is the answer to the second part. Additionally, she has engaged the services of a good plastic surgeon over the years. Of course, knowing that (or at least having a strong speculation) doesn't diminish one iota of my feeling for her & her work... I'll yield to Marsha the medical marvel who got the same close-up I did... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:31:46 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Movies Vanessa, I'm sure this has been said a million times here, but when I speak with someone who says he/she is a Joni fan, they almost invariably say something to the effect of liking Both Sides Now or Carey and many lump Joni in with Joan Baez as some sort of protest singer, girl-with-guitar type folkie. Most people over 40 with whom I've spoken about Joni are not aware of any work after say, Court and Spark (or only vaguely so). So, I believe Joni's cultural influence seems to be limited to her earlier work, which is unfortunate, I think. I love all the work but I personally was thoroughly blown away by Hejira (as a young teenager) and then went back to purchase the work before that. Then DJRD came out and I KNEW this woman was in a league all her own! Besides, these mainstream movies have to appeal to the masses so using a song like Coyote (...he picks up my scent on his fingers while he's watching the waitress's legs...") kinda doesn't go with Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks. God forbid Tom should smell of anything but Ivory soap! Maybe a movie with Tom Waits and...uh...ok...who's a good leading woman for Tom??? . Gina Ziggy Marley and the Melody Makers (don't know the song name for sure but it's cosmik, I know that) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:42:42 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in TV/Movies In a message dated 2/2/99 7:44:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, evanessa@mira.net writes: << assume that perhaps it is more commercial, more accessible? What other shows/movies have mentioned Joni songs and what were they? Vanessa. >> thirtysomething had a scene closing one episode in which the whole group gathered around the fireplace at home of the main characters. It was nearing Christmas and they were listening to "River" as the scene faded out. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:43:07 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Sex, Politics & Religion > This is Georgia 2 to Joni blue: > > I have returned as per our Comic/Karmic Contract...Pass the bong > darlin'...reggae on the weather ;~D > > Is this influential enough to maintain the harmony? 8~D If not, reggae > slower and deeper ;~) > > Georgia 2- Well, I'm not blonde but I'm a soprano with beautiful blue > eyes...two outta three ain't bad ;~D By the wave SteveD: MaryP says hi. haawoooo...I got a buzz just reading this! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:49:43 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Joni in Movies (Oops, it's NJC now...) Gina speculates: < . >> Tom (Waits, not Hanks) & Lily Tomlin are coupled in Robert Altman's "Short Cuts", a brilliant and usually overlooked film. They are quite a pair. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 07:16:06 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: The Joni game >> No offense, coyotes, but this thread is really >> lame. It makes no sense, i hate it. >> >> bill Well, in the words of the famous animated philosopher ... "Okay that does it! Screw you guys, I'm going home!" In the future, I promise to only post thoughful white papers on Joni's intellectual conflation of politics, sex and religion, and how this negatively impacts the prevailing lyrical paradigm of mainstream culture. Fair enough? ;-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:14:32 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: questions on joni stats In a message dated 2/2/99 9:12:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, artwear@ncweb.com writes: << 11. does she have to pay chuck royalties? >> For what? Chuck did not co-write any of her songs. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:24:33 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Joni representin' In the remarkably not-bad _Time_ cover story on hip-hop this week is a small but revealing (and, ahem, vindicating :-) ) Joni mention: "One of the most ambitious new CDs is the Roots' _Things Fall Apart_ (named after the book by the Nigerian Nobel laureate Chinua Achebe). The CD features live instrumentation, lyrics suitable for a poetry slam and a cameo from Erykah Badu. Roots drummer Ahmir hopes, in the future, the more creative wing of performers in hip-hop will form a support network. "There are some people in hip-hop that care about leaving a mark," he says. "There are some of us that look at _Innervisions_ as a benchmark, or _Blood on the Tracks_ or _Blue_ or _Purple Rain_." I quote the entire paragraph because I think the Roots' brand of hip-hop is one that may be more appreciated by some of you than most. Put the new album on your radar screen. The issue also includes an article by Chuck D (of Public Enemy) doing a much better explanation of the difference between rap and hip-hop than I ever could. - --Michael NP: Beck, _Mutations_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:30:36 EST From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: The Joni game In a message dated 99-02-01 15:56:15 EST, you write: << No offense, coyotes, but this thread is really lame. It makes no sense, i hate it. bill >> Ditto and Cheers, bill. Michele ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 07:35:02 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: questions on joni stats Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: > Enquiring Marilyn needs to know: > <<4. does she have any gray hair yet/ does she dye her hair?>> > > No gray, because "yes" is the answer to the second part. Additionally, she has > engaged the services of a good plastic surgeon over the years. Of course, > knowing that (or at least having a strong speculation) doesn't diminish one iota > of my feeling for her & her work... Against my better judgement of tackiness I beg to differ on the plastic surgery thing. Although I don't know anything for a fact, I did see her without makeup, and she did look her age. Somehow I don't think she would go under the knife anyway. - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:34:15 EST From: DreamZvil@aol.com Subject: Re: The Al Kooper Connection In a message dated 2/2/99 8:02:24 AM !!!First Boot!!!, les@jmdl.com writes: << > Al claims in his book that he and Joni hooked up, and > that "Rainy Night House" is about an experience he and Joni shared. (I > presume it was a rainy night, and Joni and Al took a taxi to Al's mother's > home, and Al's mother was out of town, . . . >> *Sigh!* It's all so romantic...:) Cheers, Susan (to whom almost *everything* is romantic) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 11:10:54 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The Al Kooper Connection (NJC) DreamZvil@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/2/99 8:02:24 AM !!!First Boot!!!, les@jmdl.com writes: > > << > Al claims in his book that he and Joni hooked up, and > > that "Rainy Night House" is about an experience he and Joni shared. (I > > presume it was a rainy night, and Joni and Al took a taxi to Al's mother's > > home, and Al's mother was out of town, . . . >> I remember that he also teamed up with Mike Bloomfield to produce some extraordinary recordings. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:03:10 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: questions on joni stats In a message dated 2/2/99 9:31:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << Additionally, she has engaged the services of a good plastic surgeon over the years. >> You think so?? I thought she just goes to the "Happiness" clinic- I didn't notice anything that looked like surgical intervention when I met her. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:33:05 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: questions on joni stats In a message dated 2/2/99 9:12:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, artwear@ncweb.com writes: > 7. does she sell her original paintings? I thought I read in an interview or article about Joni that she said the Japanese are fond of her original paintings (more appreciative of her painting talent) and that one of her paintings had been purchased by a Japanese person for $25,000. Can anyone confirm this? I believe in the same article she said something about Americans being suspicious of, or perhaps it was feeling threatened by, the "thrice talented", which she certainly is. Wish I could remember where I read this and if these two things appeared in the same article. Gina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:47:45 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Al Kooper & Joni Dennis Leong asked ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >Anyone familiar with this Al Cooper reference to 'Rainy Night House' > >from alt.music.Leonard-Cohen > >Not to burst anyone's bubble, but several years ago I read an excerpt from >an autobiography by a fellow named Al Cooper. I'm not sure exactly what >Al's claim to fame is or was, although I believe he may have been a member >of the '60's band "Blood, Sweat and Tears." In any event he was part of >the NYC/Greenwich Village club scene about the time Joni Mitchell was >starting her career and living in 16th Street in the Chelsea district of >>Manhattan. Al apparently met Joni through her then-current boyfriend, a >>drummer named Roy (or Ray) Blumenthal (who may have played drums for >"Blood, Sweat and Tears"; and, of course, we all know about Joni and >those "boom, boom pachyderm" players). Al claims in his book that he and >Joni hooked up, and that "Rainy Night House" is about an experience he and >Joni shared. (I presume it was a rainy night, and Joni and Al took a taxi >to Al's mother's home, and Al's mother was out of town, ... well, you know >the rest.) I don't know if there's any truth to Al's story -- which ain't >a bad one, by the way, as Joni Mitchell stories go -- but whatever the >>inspiration, "Rainy Night House" is one among many great songs by Joni >>Mitchell. >> mojo >__________________________________________________________________________ Dennis, Mojo's memory is a little fuzzy about what Al Kooper actually said. here's the lowdown. From: BACKSTAGE PASSES & BACKSTABBING BASTARDS: Memoirs Of A Rock 'N Roll Survivor by Al Kooper, (c) 1998 One night I was sitting in my favorite bar in the vgillage, the Dugout. It was the best place to kill a sumer's night, and i always ran into a few friends I would miss while i was on the road. I was living platonically at folk-singer Judy Collins' apartment on the Upper West Side in between my own apartments. Judy, the number two female folk singer behind Joan Baez, was a wonderful, generous woman. Her apartment was the folk music salon of the midi sixties. People like Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Phil Ochhs, and others would make the pilgrimage to her digs and enjoy her hospitality and earth mothering. This particular night in the Village I was sitting with a new girl in town. she had a crush on Roy Blumenfeld, the drummer from The Blues Project. Unfortunately for her, Roy had a girlfriend who was on to her and extremely jealous. So, this gal is crying in my beer for about three hours, and I don't mind 'cause she's kinda easy on the eyes and nothing else is going on anyway. So they're closing the bar and throwing us out and I offer to walk her home. Since it was about a fifteen-minute stroll, and it was a beautiful summer's night. Since I was covered in the ashes of my failed marriage, this was a pleasant diversion. When we got to her door, she invited me in to hear some of her new songs. She was a folksinger. Canadian. Half of a duet with her recently divorced husband, they had achieved a mild popularity and a cult following in various American border cities. she, being real pretty, had me bounding up the stairs like a hound dog, figuring if the songs were lousy, maybe I could salvage the evening some other way. In a few minutes that became the furthest thing from my mind. Her songs were incredible and totally original, which was a surprise in those days, but quite refreshing. She would finish one, and I would say more, more. And she had enough to keep going for hours, most of them brilliant. One song especially killed me, and i thought it would be great for Judy Collins--that a nice way to pay her for her hospitality would be to turn her on to it. Being impulsive, I asked my host if I could use her phone, and i called Judy up. It was 5:30 a.m. by now, and Judy was pretty pissed off. "I have to get up soon and drive all the way to the Newport Folk Festival, and I wanted to get some sleep for a change. I can hear this song when I get back from the festival, Al," she said diplomatically. Bang! a great idea hits me. "Judy, why don't you, room permitting, take this girl with you to the festival. She could play the song and others for you on the way up and make your trip that much more pleasant. Then, being that you're on the board of directors, you could see if maybe they could fit her in the schedule somewhere to play, huh?" Silence at the other end. "Judy?" "Kooper, you bastard. Yea, I'll do it. Gimme her number. Bye." Just to make sure, I gave the woman Judy's number and told her to call Collins in a couple of hours. I split immediately 'cause I was exhausted and never made it to Judy's place, preferring to crash on a bench in Washington Square Park in the steamy, summer morning rather than get hell for waking her at 5:30 a.m. Well, as the saying goes, the rest is history. The girl (Joni Mitchell, of course) played at the 1967 festival, thanks to the last minute urgings of Judy Collins, and stole the whole show. Judy eventually recorded the song I thought she would like, "Michael From Mountains," and also had a huge hit with "Both Sides Now," another of Joni's songs. Joni never thanked me, but when I heard the album "Ladies Of The Canyon," that was thanks enough. Maybe I should thank Her. - ------- simon - ------- * Remember, if you don't stand for something, you'll go for anything. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:48:33 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Rainy Night House & Leonard Cohen Randy Remote writes ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >"Leong, Dennis" wrote: >> >> I read an excerpt from an autobiography by a fellow named Al Cooper. >> Al claims in his book that he and Joni hooked up, and that >>"Rainy Night House" is about an experience he and Joni shared. >> > >Al Kooper was indeed leader of Blood, Sweat and Tears only >for their first album "Child is Father To the Man". > >I don't know about his "Rainy Night" story, > >I remember an interview I heard ages ago where a DJ was asking Joni >about "Rainy Night House", and asked if the "Holy Man on the FM Radio" >referred to a radio jock. Joni laughed and said, no, she was referring >to a musician. > >RR >__________________________________________________________________________ Randy, here's a little something from the JMDL Archives > > >Date: Mon. Feb. 23, 1998 > >From: VARIOUS POSITIONS: A Life Of Leonard Cohen > by Ira B. Nadel, (c) 1996 > > Following his father's death, Cohen won a significant dispute with > his mother over custody of Nathan's pistol, a military souvenir. > Cohen had been fascinated by his father's military exploits and at > one time Nathan had spoken of sending Cohen to a military college, > an idea Cohen eagerly accepted. THE FAVORITE GAME describes the > dispute over the gun, presented as an important talisman: > a "huge .38 in a thick leather case ... Lethal, angular, precise, > it smoldered in the dark drawer with dangerous potential. > The metal was always cold." > > Cohen has always been fascinated by weapons, reflected in his novel > BEAUTIFUL LOSERS. "I loved the magic of guns," the character F. > declares. For several years Cohen himself kept a gun. In her lyric > to "Rainy Night House," Joni Mitchell describes how she and Cohen > took a taxi to his mother's house in Westmount during her absence: > "she went to Florida and left you with your father's gun alone." > > > RAINY NIGHT HOUSE > > It was a rainy night > We took a taxi to your mother's home > She went to Florida and left you > With your father's gun, alone > Upon her small white bed > I fell into a dream > You sat up all the night and watched me > To see, who in the world I might be. > > I am from the Sunday school > I sing soprano in the upstairs choir > You are a holy man > On the F.M. radio > I sat up all the night and watched thee > To see, who in the world you might be. > > You called me beautiful > You called your mother--she was very tanned > So you packed your tent and went > To live out in the Arizona sand > You are a refugee > From a wealthy family > You gave up all the golden factories > To see, who in the world you might be. > > >-------- > simon >-------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:55:50 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: questions on joni stats In a message dated 2/2/99 9:31:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << Additionally, she has engaged the services of a good plastic surgeon over the years. >> Then Terry wonders: ***You think so?? I thought she just goes to the "Happiness" clinic- I didn't notice anything that looked like surgical intervention when I met her.*** To tell you the truth (and I'm sure you can relate) it wasn't something I thought about then & there, as I was so mesmerized by her radiance. But afterwards, and after getting the photos back, I wondered about it, especially given the fact that she's smoked for 40 years... But by the same token, since she's not of this earth in so many other ways, it could be that she's not susceptible to gravity, time, and other thieves...:~) Bob NP: The Blackbyrds, "Walking in Rhythm" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:23:58 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: questions on joni stats - ---------- > From: IVPAUL42@aol.com > To: artwear@ncweb.com; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: questions on joni stats > Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 10:14 AM > > In a message dated 2/2/99 9:12:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, artwear@ncweb.com > writes: > > << 11. does she have to pay chuck royalties? >> > > For what? Chuck did not co-write any of her songs. For the "Mitchell" name...people have sued for less! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 07:34:58 +0100 From: Marian Russell Subject: Marian Unplugged Report Just wanted to let you all know about my gig on Sunday - Jan. 31st. It was a *very* cold night in Vienna - at least minus 10 degrees Centigrade and the wind was blowing - so I was especially grateful for the dear souls who braved the cold to come and hear me play. It went really well. I felt very pleased with most of it and I got nice feedback from everyone. My set lists were: 1st set: Catch The Wind (Donovan) Some Kind Of Trouble (Tanya Tucker) The Weight (The Band) Blackbird (Beatles) Isle of Islay (Donovan) Mr. Tambourine Man (Dylan) Dear Prudence (Beatles) Big Yellow Taxi Because I Told You (Jonatha Brooke) Night In The City Suzanne (Leonard Cohen) Winter Wind (Patty Larkin) The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines (a capella) 2nd set: Talk To Me Hejira The Only Joy In Town Cherokee Louise Help Me Magdalene Laundries The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey Barangrill Moon At The Window The Crazy Cries Of Love 3rd set: Just Like This Train Sisotowbell Lane Coyote This Flight Tonight The Gallery Cold Blue Steel Number One Night Ride Home For most of the JM songs I tuned the guitar at least a whole step lower than the tuning Joni uses, since it's hard for me to reach some of the higher notes otherwise. I felt pretty tired about halfway into the second set - and sometimes I felt like I wasn't sure I could sing the next song - like momentary lapses in confidence - and then I felt happy when I managed to get through the various songs where I felt like this. Even though I was so tired, when I got home I was really wound up and couldn't go to sleep even though it was after midnight. I slept most of the next day. I really enjoyed doing this and I hope that my efforts will spark an appreciation for Joni's music in at least a few members of the audience. I'll probably play again in another couple of months. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 11:10:23 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: questions on joni stats >6. does she have a favorite alcoholic beverage? Tequila, Singapore Slings, bottles of German wine and love (the strongest poison and medecine of all) :-) Don Rowe (all of these suggestions come straight from Joni lyrics, so I hope this answer doesn't sound too stupid ... or lame) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:40:13 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: questions on joni stats > > >6. does she have a favorite alcoholic beverage? > > Tequila, Singapore Slings, bottles of German wine and love (the > strongest poison and medecine of all) :-) > > Don Rowe > (all of these suggestions come straight from Joni lyrics, so I hope this > answer doesn't sound too stupid ... or lame) And gin and zombies and sweet champagne and holy wine ...I suspect our Joni is a lush. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:49:11 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Marian Unplugged Report Woo Woo!! Way to go, Marian! Wish I could have been there- Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:30:42 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Marian Unplugged Report Marian reports: <> Marian, what a show this must have been! Hope you're gearing up for a summer US tour...I'll come, and I'll bring a date! Of course keep in mind if you're playing for your fellow jmdler's, some of those NJC songs will have to go!! ;~D Bob (The best I can do is walk around the halls at work whistling her songs in hope that someone will stop me and ask about it,,,) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 99 13:42:29 -0700 From: Wally Breese Subject: John Kelly Hi everyone, I received a letter this evening from John Kelly, with news that he is presenting his "Paved Paradise" show in abridged form as opening act on the Natalie Merchant tour. Here's his note: Hi Wally, Good news--I'm opening for Natalie Merchant on part of her west coast tour. I've known Natalie for a couple of years, we've talked about doing this, and now its finally happened. It will be a condensed version of Paved Paradise, a 30 minute set--mostly old Joni songs, just guitar and keyboard. Here are the venues: February 6 The Joint at the Hard Rock Hotel Las Vegas 2/8 Copley Symphony Hall San Diego 2/9 Arlington Theatre Santa Barbara 2/10 Universal Amphitheatre Universal City, Ca. (LA) - ----------------------------------- Later, Wally Breese The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 13:42:35 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: weighing in on NJC - Contains Joni content! From: CarltonCT@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:03:48 EST The actual Joni content of this list is often uninteresting to me. At certain times, like Joni's recent tours in the States, or the release of TTT, or the Pay Per View, listers have had some interesting things to write about: actual encounters, what happened at the concerts, the tapings, etc. I love hearing anything about Joni I didn't know, or reading some fresh perspective -- but plain and simple comments on what someone likes or doesn't like about her or her music is dull, or where they place her albums in a hierarchy, etc. Dull to me anyway, so I just scroll through it on the Digest. I think Les does an excellent job of editing the posts into the Digests, and I recommend subscribing to them for anyone who thinks this List has too much of anything. For me, much of the NJC material here has been far more interesting in the dry times, especially since it's still coming from a group of people with whom I share an obsession: a beautiful, female Canadian singer/songwriter of extraordinary gifts, a woman of tremendous complexities with a network of interests and concerns, a woman who is reflected in the diverse personalities of her fans. Joni's work in the last two decades has been very political, very questioning on certain religious issues, and yes, she has written specifically about gay people in sympathetic terms. The Magdalene Laundries is an indictment against an archaic, oppressive institution run by the Catholic Church, and implicitly, a condemnation of Irish culture's link to that Church. If Joni can be controversial and assert her strong opinions, then why shouldn't the people on this list if they are doing it in a way that doesn't personally attack someone? We aren't talking about Celine Dion here, we're talking about someone who has weighed in on some important cultural, religious and political matters in her music -- and she doesn't care if she's being polite in critical matters. If it's important to Joan, it's important to us and all the human family. Joni once divided herself from political material early in her career, at a time when many of her contemporaries were very political. But she reversed that in the 80s with DED, CMIAR, then TI and TTT which are rich with social commentary. It was part of her maturity as a person to go outside of herself and take on a greater world perspective. In the last two decades, her songs of social commentary are toothsome and stimulating in the face of so much empty pop music. I find some of the people writing NJC material here to be bright, well informed, and interesting writers. I like reading what they have to say even if I disagree with them. It's not like the NJC material here is about cars, or food, or what's on television. It tends to be about important things. In the six months or so that I've been here, I see that the list always swings back to its intended subject matter. It's something I've seen on other lists I've subscribed to, where people who are in the safety of cyberspace write things to each other in a public forum that they would never say to someone else's face. Controversies always break out about what the true nature of the list is, until the list itself is consumed by that discussion. I think that's what's happened here. All of which leads me to a question: what is it that people who love Joni have in common? Weigh in! My own answer: if you love Joni, you feel things deeply. You have a rich emotional and subjective life and are overwhelmed sometimes by your feelings and perceptions, a condition you wouldn't trade. Like Van Gogh, or other artists/sensitives, the world is often an intensely vibrant place -- you can't always filter your experience of it into some manageable stream, because you have never stopped yourself from feeling. You love beauty and pursue it constantly. You pick the roller coaster over the the merry-go-round. One thing I also learned after meeting JMDL people in the flesh recently at Kakki's swell apartment in the sky: they are (so far in my experience) a warm, friendly and considerate bunch. They were polite enough to listen to my fledgling efforts as a songwriter, and all of them are very good singers! Clark NP: Pet Shop Boys, Bilingual This message boun_ced on it's way to Joniland - usually a result of the address from which it came not matching *exactly* any subscriber's address. If this message is from you, contact me so we can resolve the problem. -Les. - -------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:12:28 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: I'se A Muggin' on Jan. 18, 1999 Mark asked ... > >I was listening to a program on our local NPR station Saturday night >called 'The Swing Years and Beyond' and they played the entire song >I's A Muggin'. I meant to write down the name of the artist performing >it but got distracted and can't remember the name. Was anyone else aware >that that little snippet from 'Mingus' that Joni sings with the man was >part of an actual song? > Yes, the song "I'se A Muggin'" was written by Jazz Violinist Stuff Smith. you can find his original 1936 recording on the following CD. 1. STUFF SMITH 'The Mad Genius Of The Violin, Vol. 1' EPM/JAZZ ARCHIVES 5085 158912 2 other recordings of "I'se A Muggin'" can be found on the following CD's. 2. DJANGO REINHARDT 'Avec Le Quintet Du Hot Club De France' BMG M97169 3. DJANGO REINHARDT 'Django With His American Friends' DRG 2147 8493 2 4. JACK TEAGARDEN 'The Indispensable Jack Teagarden' BMG/RCA 7863 66606 2 all the above are available from CD Now (among others). here's more than you (probably) wanted to know about Stuff Smith. STUFF SMITH b. Aug. 14, 1909 Portsmouth, OH; d. Nov. 25, 1967 Chicago IL. nee: Hezekiah Leroy Gordon Smith Overview: Stuff Smith was one of those rare musicians endowed with the special ability to create highly entertaining music with a strong personal flavor that deeply touched his audiences. His jocular style of playing and singing showed the strong influence of Louis Armstrong. (What musician hasn't been influenced by Armstrong?) His use of the violin echoed the Jazz bands of much earlier days, and in his capable hands, it was the equal of any other band instrumnet. He was capable of great melodic invention that was coupled with a wonderful phrasing and a strong sense of rhythm. He was a master musician who is not as appreciated today as he should be. Listening to his many fine recordings, one is sure to feel the excitement of this great and entertaining jazz master. Stuff' father was a violinist, his mother was a pianist, and by just age 6, he was already studying the violin. He went on from there to more serious musical studies. In 1924, at age fifteen, while attending Johnson C. Smith University (on a music scholarship) he heard Louis Armstrong, and abandoned his goal of becoming a classical musician, turning to Jazz and Pop music instead. He left school to join a touring musical show (and there picked up his nickname "Stuff"). Stuff left the touring show, and from 1926-'28, worked with the Trent Alphonso Orchestra. Following Alphonso, Stuff was briefly with Jelly Roll Morton before again returning to Alphonso. He stayed with Alphonso until 1930 and then settled in Buffalo, NY leading his own band for a few years. In 1936, Stuff relocated to New York City, there to receive his widest acclaim. Finding work on New York's famed 52nd Street ('Swing Street'), Stuff formed a sextet called 'Stuff Smith & His Onyx Club Boys'. Among the "boys" were Jonah Jones on trumpet and Cozy Cole on drums. He recorded for Vocalion Records and also started occasionally singing and playing with an amplified violin - an innovation for that time. Two of his better known recordings of the day were "I'se A Muggin'" (composed by Stuff) and "You'se a Viper". Both tunes featured trumpeter Jonah Jones. All through the 1940s, Stuff continued to record and perform in New York. It is little remembered today, but in 1943, Fats Waller died on a train returning him to New York, and Stuff became the new leader of Waller's band. By the 1950s, Swing Street and the Big Bands had passed into memory. Stuff's sextet was also gone. He worked as a sideman with other jazzmen including Dizzy Gillespie. In 1953, Stuff had a solo on Sun Ra's first recording "Sound Sun Pleasure!". In 1957, Verve Record's owner Norman Granz featured Stuff on different albums with such musicians as the Oscar Peterson Trio, Carl Perkins, and a collaboration with Dizzy Gillespie. Also in 1957, Stuff was recorded in collaboration with famed violinist Stephane Grappelli (of the original 'Hot Club of France') on a disk "Violins No End." During the 1960s, Stuff toured and recorded extensively throughout the U.S. and Europe. On records, he was heard with such violinists as John-Luc Ponty and Svend Asmussen. In 1965, he permanently relocated to Copenhagen, Denmark. where he was a popular artist. He was just 58 years old when he died. for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:14:16 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Hits on Mon. Jan. 11, 1999 Eric Taylor wrote ... > >The only two reasons I bought Hits was to hear Urge For Going >and to support Joni. And I think it's the best song on the CD. > >All the songs on Hits are wonderful but I find it insulting to Joni >and listeners to confine her unparalleled accomplishments to the early >>seventies. None of her truly remarkable works are included on Hits, >although it is good to see Chinese Cafe and Come In From The Cold >somehow made it onto the CD. > >However I can't see 'Hits' killing her catalog. >Suddenly I'm hearing her music everywhere. And this is good! > >E.T. > FWIW: all selections were made by Joni herself. the track selection went thru several revisions. she's also pointed out that were she programming these collections today, they would probably be different. at one point "Dreamland" was to be included on 'HITS'. only when it was dropped did she add "Chelsea Morning" and "Come In From The Cold" in its place. 'MISSES' originally included "The Boho Dance" instead of "The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey". as for 'Hits' killing her catalog, this was Joni's stated reason for opposing an Anthology Collection (ie: Greatest Hits), as well as the fact that there weren't that many hits. BTW: did you notice the following in the 'MISSES' production credits? Thanks, "To Melanie Harby, Timothy White and WALLY BREESE for the research even though I changed direction." for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:16:14 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: We're Not Equal? ~ Oh Yes You Are! (NJC) on 12-15-98 Paul Tyrer wrote ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >Hi Marilyn > >I know what you're saying about 'what happens in other people's bedrooms >is none of our business'. But if that were true, Matt Sheppard wouldn't >be dead right now. Heterosexuals and Lesbians/Gay men aren't the same, >'cos the latter (in which I include myself) suffer discrimination and >prejudice every day even if for the more fortunate of us, this is >experienced in very minor and seemingly insignificant ways. >We're not equal, and no amount of saying so is gonna make us equal. Yet! >__________________________________________________________________________ Paul, not equal? Oh yes you are! don't EVER let anyone tell you any different. there's NO doubt about your equality. the question is when are we all going to be accorded *Equal Treatment* under the law and in the eyes and attitudes of the misguided few. clearly the goal is ... "Coexistence with mutual respect for the dignity of each individual." i think Thomas Jefferson said it best, even if He wasn't able to live up to his own ideals. "We Hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." ... the pursuit of Happiness. a revolutionary concept. think about it. - ------- simon - ------- they sin by their silence ... when they should have spoken out. A.Lincoln ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 14:20:38 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: questions on joni stats M & C Urbanski wrote: > > 11. does she have to pay chuck royalties? > Royalties are paid for intellectual property i.e. authorship. Since Joni's legal name was Mitchell, I don't know of any law that would validate a claim from Chuck that he was due anything. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 14:36:26 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re:Stuff Smith(NJC) Simon- More thanks due. I've long appreciated Stuff Smith. His 1936 era Onyx Club recordings are absolutely classic! So I was glad to get this background info. I also have an album he did with guitarist Herb Ellis in 1963 that is quite nice. Jazz lovers (esp violin jazz) are urged to check him out. Cool Stuff fer sure. On CD Stuff Smith "Onyx Club Spree" TPZ 1061 Pavilion Records LTD (English Co.) Contains 30's gems including the reefer song "You'se a Viper" and a hot "After You've Gone" (but not "I's a Muggin'") Herb Ellis and Stuff Smith "Together!" Koch Jazz KOC 3-7805-2 (1963) more modern but still mighty fine formerly Epic LA 16039 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:33:01 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: questions on joni stats > 3. who watches her cats when she's on the road? Hopefully not the same housekeeper who painted her piano brown. > 4. does she have any gray hair yet/ does she dye her hair? I cannot believe she has no gray hair. She's in her mid fifties, after all. And she's had different shades of blonde over the years - wasn't she really, really platinum in the Refuge of the Roads video? That photo in the NY Times Magazine - does it look like she's had plastic surgery? > 6. does she have a favorite alcoholic beverage? Way back in 1974, she said her favorite wine was Chateaux Margaux. My mom bought me a bottle for Christmas. > 9. Is her father still alive? Yes, I believe he is. She doesn't talk about him much, does she? Myrtle looms large. > 11. does she have to pay chuck royalties? I don't know about royalties, but didn't they have some business arrangements early on, like a joint publishing company? Was he the guy "with her name on all his papers?" Deb Messling ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:44:08 -0500 From: The Humphreys Subject: re: all things NJC evian, I read your recent post with a loud "Yes, Me Too!" at the end. It was so well articulated, and everything I have wanted to say, but haven't had the time/energy to put together. I enjoy portions of this digest, and don't enjoy others. But by no means do I wish any of it away. How could we possibly "discuss" and "learn" without debate of any kind? How could we come together and maintain interest in one another without differences of opinion, some stronger that others...It gets the old blood boilin' ;-) Suzanne NP: Metric Lips (New Grass Revival) thanks to Les (she says with a huge smile on her face, praising the powers of snail mail and new recording technology...) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #54 ************************* There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. 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