From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #54
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
Precedence: bulk
JMDL Digest Tuesday, February 2 1999 Volume 04 : Number 054
The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes
by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery
username: jimdle password: siquomb
-------
The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more.
-------
The JMDL website can be found at and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
==========
TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
Re: Sex, Politics, Religion, and all things NJC ["Kakki" ]
Children First book/cd/cd-rom-JC hopefully [MP123A321@aol.com]
Joni in Movies [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ]
Re: Sex, Politics, Religion, and all things NJC ["M & C Urbanski" ]
Re: Joni in Movies [DKasc13293@aol.com]
Re[2]: Joni in Movies [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
Re[2]: Am I a bad girl? (joni content) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
questions on joni stats ["M & C Urbanski" ]
Re: questions on joni stats [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
Re: Joni in Movies [Ginamu@aol.com]
Re: Joni in TV/Movies [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
Re: Sex, Politics & Religion ["M & C Urbanski" ]
Re[2]: Joni in Movies (Oops, it's NJC now...) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
Re: The Joni game ["Don Rowe" ]
Re: questions on joni stats [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
Joni representin' [Michael Yarbrough ]
Re: The Joni game [MHart16164@aol.com]
Re: questions on joni stats [Phyliss Ward ]
Re: The Al Kooper Connection [DreamZvil@aol.com]
Re: The Al Kooper Connection (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ]
Marian Unplugged Report [Marian Russell ]
Re: questions on joni stats ["Don Rowe" ]
Re: questions on joni stats ["M & C Urbanski" ]
Re: Marian Unplugged Report [TerryM2442@aol.com]
Re: Marian Unplugged Report [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
John Kelly [Wally Breese ]
weighing in on NJC - Contains Joni content! [Bounced Message ]
Re:Stuff Smith(NJC) [Randy Remote ]
Re: questions on joni stats ["Deb Messling" ]
re: all things NJC [The Humphreys ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:50:58 -0800
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Re: Sex, Politics, Religion, and all things NJC
Evian wrote:
>Thus, I decided against the Stevie list, simply because with stringent
>rules like that, people cannot really get to know each other, and no
>debate can be made. I pictured a few hundred people sitting front of
>their computers draped in chiffon and raving over and over about the
>same old things, and it gave me the willies.. LOL!
Ooo, what an image - it sure gave me the willies, too!
My thoughts about the list is that it is like having 150 cable channels from
all over the world to choose to tune in. To me, it is a little like having
the cyber-equivalent of CNN, Comedy Central, History Channel, Arts &
Entertainment, Game Shows, MTV, VH-1, Biography, World Politics, Tabloid TV
etc., etc. I *always* like to catch the Joni channel but some days I also
like to watch CNN, tune in to a new historical perspective, hear about some
other music or just have a good laugh. If we just had one big Joni
Superstation, we would sure have to watch a lot of reruns everyday, with no
option to change the channel. Reruns are great for those who missed the
first airing, but after the fifth or sixth airing, some people may want to
see what else is on. Even if there was a rule to make the list 100% pure
Joni, there would be no way to filter out references to other topics, no
matter how hard one tried to purify their posts. A discussion of Facelift
evolves into discussing Joni's mother which evolves into discussing her
Irish grandmother, and before you know it someone has made a connection that
Joni's great-granny used to play pinocle with Van Morrison's great aunt and
there you go.....
Another thing I've never quite understood here is how some people feel upset
if they post something and it does not turn into a thread. Maybe I'm dense,
but I never thought that was supposed to be the only purpose of a post.
Some posts can be brilliant and wonderful but may, unfortunately, get lost
in the shuffle sometimes. But that does not mean that they aren't worthy or
that the person who posted is being snubbed. Some people's one post says it
all sometimes, and there is no need to comment, argue, fuss or fight over
it. Some other posts are like bulletin board announcements to me, passing
along some news or updated information on Joni or other musicians and not
singularly meant to be a thread starter. I read it all. Some posts catch
my attention more than others, but that does not mean that the other posts
are not worthy, it just means they appeal to something individual in me.
I'm grateful for the diversity - it opens up and exercises my brain and
that, to me, is invaluable.
Kakki
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:33:11 EST
From: MP123A321@aol.com
Subject: Children First book/cd/cd-rom-JC hopefully
I believe Joni, Neil Young, Clapton may have lent a song to a new CD release,
"Children First: A Celebration of Children.'' I have done some preliminary
research, no confirmation yet. Anyone know more?
Here is the site that the CD is listed on.
http://www.bossmodels.com/childrenfirst.html ( nice pictures of models , if
no Joni pics.)
Maurice
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 23:48:44 +1100
From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson
Subject: Joni in Movies
This is just rambling but...
why when then mention Joni in movies/t.v shows etc, do they always use
her earlier music, like from Blue or from Clouds?
i.e. Party of Five episode ' River'
You've Got Mail 'River' and 'Both Sides Now'
E.R. episode 'A Case of You'
I can't think of any more off the top of my head. Does anyone have any
theories?
I assume that perhaps it is more commercial, more accessible? What
other shows/movies have mentioned Joni songs and what were they?
Vanessa.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:45:17 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: Sex, Politics, Religion, and all things NJC
> My thoughts about the list is that it is like having 150 cable channels
from
> all over the world to choose to tune in. To me, it is a little like
having
> the cyber-equivalent of CNN, Comedy Central, History Channel, Arts &
> Entertainment, Game Shows, MTV, VH-1, Biography, World Politics, Tabloid
TV
> etc., etc. I *always* like to catch the Joni channel but some days I
also
> like to watch CNN, tune in to a new historical perspective, hear about
some
> other music or just have a good laugh. If we just had one big Joni
> Superstation, we would sure have to watch a lot of reruns everyday, with
no
> option to change the channel. Reruns are great for those who missed the
> first airing, but after the fifth or sixth airing, some people may want
to
> see what else is on.
(SNIP)
> I read it all. Some posts catch
> my attention more than others, but that does not mean that the other
posts
> are not worthy, it just means they appeal to something individual in me.
> I'm grateful for the diversity - it opens up and exercises my brain and
> that, to me, is invaluable.
>
> Kakki
Kakki,
You are just so articulate! To that I say "Yeah me too"!
And by the way, I like lettuce, tomato and mayo on my bandwidth.
Marilyn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:02:03 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: Joni in Movies
> This is just rambling but...
>
> why when then mention Joni in movies/t.v shows etc, do they always use
> her earlier music, like from Blue or from Clouds?
>
> i.e. Party of Five episode ' River'
> You've Got Mail 'River' and 'Both Sides Now'
> E.R. episode 'A Case of You'
>
> I can't think of any more off the top of my head. Does anyone have any
> theories?
>
> I assume that perhaps it is more commercial, more accessible? What
> other shows/movies have mentioned Joni songs and what were they?
>
> Vanessa.
>
No No Vanessa, This is not "just rambling" This is a 100% pure JC
question!
Anyhow, IMO, Joni's earlier music was more popular, people recognize "early
Joni".
Not this new "crap" she's put out. It's all part of the conspiracy theory
ya know! The industry is punishing her and sending her a message at the
same time to produce those wonderful folky love (heart broken) songs again
like a good girl! You know - be the Carole King - produce the snappy hits
machine!
Marilyn
P.S. I remember watching some T.V. movie way back in the late 70's about
an anorexic girl. "Songs To Aging Children Come" was part of that movie.
Anybody remember seeing that?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:48:50 EST
From: DKasc13293@aol.com
Subject: Re: Joni in Movies
Sex Kills - Melrose Place
How Do You Stop - The Real World (London)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:53:04 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re[2]: Joni in Movies
Marilyn comments:
<>
I'll go you one more, Marilyn, 99% of the folks out there aren't even
aware that Joni continued putting out great stuff or *any* work for
that matter since C&S.
In Atlanta, there was a couple sitting in front of us that seemed to
be Joni fans, so I struck up a conversation - they said they were Joni
fans, but didn't know about TTT, probably didn't know much of what
Joni had done over the last 20 years. Blame some of that on the
marketplace, but it seems beyond this group of people here, folks just
are content to brand Joni as the "California folkie with love in her
eyes and flowers in her hair"...pity.
Bob
NP: Barry White. "I'm Gonna Love You Just a Little More Baby"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:02:05 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re[2]: Am I a bad girl? (joni content)
Ric, Ric, Ric says:
<>
FWIW, on more than one ocassion I have asked for a discount with doctors &
dentists for their delays in seeing me. It doesn't always work but it has
sometimes - They won't charge for an X-Ray or something like that, but if
nothing else, it may make them more aware of your schedule next time 'round.
Of course, if nothing else you can always rip off their magazines...;~D
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:09:20 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: questions on joni stats
I have so many questions about Joni...
1. did she vow never to have anymore kids because of Kilauren?
2. does she take her cats to Vancouver when she stays there?
3. who watches her cats when she's on the road?
4. does she have any gray hair yet/ does she dye her hair?
5. other than swimming, does she work out?
6. does she have a favorite alcoholic beverage?
7. does she sell her original paintings?
8. what kind of car(s) does own?
9. Is her father still alive?
10. what are Chuck's feelings about her keeping the "Mitchell" name?
11. does she have to pay chuck royalties?
12. does she financially support her parents?
13. does she have duel citizenship?
14. what's her favorite country/city to visit?
15. has she ever tried her hand at sculpting?
oh I guess that's enough for now...(please excuse if there are any
repetitious questions from pervious posts)
Marilyn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:28:51 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re: questions on joni stats
Enquiring Marilyn needs to know:
I have so many questions about Joni...
<<4. does she have any gray hair yet/ does she dye her hair?>>
No gray, because "yes" is the answer to the second part. Additionally, she has
engaged the services of a good plastic surgeon over the years. Of course,
knowing that (or at least having a strong speculation) doesn't diminish one iota
of my feeling for her & her work...
I'll yield to Marsha the medical marvel who got the same close-up I did...
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:31:46 EST
From: Ginamu@aol.com
Subject: Re: Joni in Movies
Vanessa,
I'm sure this has been said a million times here, but when I speak with
someone who says he/she is a Joni fan, they almost invariably say something to
the effect of liking Both Sides Now or Carey and many lump Joni in with Joan
Baez as some sort of protest singer, girl-with-guitar type folkie. Most people
over 40 with whom I've spoken about Joni are not aware of any work after say,
Court and Spark (or only vaguely so). So, I believe Joni's cultural influence
seems to be limited to her earlier work, which is unfortunate, I think. I love
all the work but I personally was thoroughly blown away by Hejira (as a young
teenager) and then went back to purchase the work before that. Then DJRD came
out and I KNEW this woman was in a league all her own! Besides, these
mainstream movies have to appeal to the masses so using a song like Coyote
(...he picks up my scent on his fingers while he's watching the waitress's
legs...") kinda doesn't go with Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks. God forbid Tom should
smell of anything but Ivory soap! Maybe a movie with Tom Waits
and...uh...ok...who's a good leading woman for Tom??? .
Gina
Ziggy Marley and the Melody Makers (don't know the song name for sure but it's
cosmik, I know that)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:42:42 EST
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: Joni in TV/Movies
In a message dated 2/2/99 7:44:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, evanessa@mira.net
writes:
<< assume that perhaps it is more commercial, more accessible? What
other shows/movies have mentioned Joni songs and what were they?
Vanessa. >>
thirtysomething had a scene closing one episode in which the whole group
gathered around the fireplace at home of the main characters. It was nearing
Christmas and they were listening to "River" as the scene faded out.
Paul I
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:43:07 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: Sex, Politics & Religion
> This is Georgia 2 to Joni blue:
>
> I have returned as per our Comic/Karmic Contract...Pass the bong
> darlin'...reggae on the weather ;~D
>
> Is this influential enough to maintain the harmony? 8~D If not, reggae
> slower and deeper ;~)
>
> Georgia 2- Well, I'm not blonde but I'm a soprano with beautiful blue
> eyes...two outta three ain't bad ;~D By the wave SteveD: MaryP says hi.
haawoooo...I got a buzz just reading this!
Marilyn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:49:43 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re[2]: Joni in Movies (Oops, it's NJC now...)
Gina speculates:
< . >>
Tom (Waits, not Hanks) & Lily Tomlin are coupled in Robert Altman's "Short
Cuts", a brilliant and usually overlooked film. They are quite a pair.
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 07:16:06 PST
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Re: The Joni game
>> No offense, coyotes, but this thread is really
>> lame. It makes no sense, i hate it.
>>
>> bill
Well, in the words of the famous animated philosopher ...
"Okay that does it! Screw you guys, I'm going home!"
In the future, I promise to only post thoughful white papers on Joni's
intellectual conflation of politics, sex and religion, and how this
negatively impacts the prevailing lyrical paradigm of mainstream
culture. Fair enough? ;-)
Don Rowe
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:14:32 EST
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: questions on joni stats
In a message dated 2/2/99 9:12:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, artwear@ncweb.com
writes:
<< 11. does she have to pay chuck royalties? >>
For what? Chuck did not co-write any of her songs.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:24:33 -0500
From: Michael Yarbrough
Subject: Joni representin'
In the remarkably not-bad _Time_ cover story on hip-hop this
week is a small but revealing (and, ahem, vindicating :-) ) Joni
mention:
"One of the most ambitious new CDs is the Roots' _Things Fall
Apart_ (named after the book by the Nigerian Nobel laureate
Chinua Achebe). The CD features live instrumentation, lyrics
suitable for a poetry slam and a cameo from Erykah Badu.
Roots drummer Ahmir hopes, in the future, the more creative
wing of performers in hip-hop will form a support network. "There
are some people in hip-hop that care about leaving a mark," he
says. "There are some of us that look at _Innervisions_ as a
benchmark, or _Blood on the Tracks_ or _Blue_ or _Purple
Rain_."
I quote the entire paragraph because I think the Roots' brand of
hip-hop is one that may be more appreciated by some of you
than most. Put the new album on your radar screen.
The issue also includes an article by Chuck D (of Public Enemy)
doing a much better explanation of the difference between rap
and hip-hop than I ever could.
- --Michael
NP: Beck, _Mutations_
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:30:36 EST
From: MHart16164@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Joni game
In a message dated 99-02-01 15:56:15 EST, you write:
<< No offense, coyotes, but this thread is really
lame. It makes no sense, i hate it.
bill
>>
Ditto and Cheers, bill.
Michele
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 07:35:02 -0800
From: Phyliss Ward
Subject: Re: questions on joni stats
Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote:
> Enquiring Marilyn needs to know:
> <<4. does she have any gray hair yet/ does she dye her hair?>>
>
> No gray, because "yes" is the answer to the second part. Additionally, she has
> engaged the services of a good plastic surgeon over the years. Of course,
> knowing that (or at least having a strong speculation) doesn't diminish one iota
> of my feeling for her & her work...
Against my better judgement of tackiness I beg to differ on the plastic surgery
thing. Although I don't know anything for a fact, I did see her without makeup, and
she did look her age. Somehow I don't think she would go under the knife anyway.
- --
Phyliss
pward@lightspeed.net
http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:34:15 EST
From: DreamZvil@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Al Kooper Connection
In a message dated 2/2/99 8:02:24 AM !!!First Boot!!!, les@jmdl.com writes:
<< > Al claims in his book that he and Joni hooked up, and
> that "Rainy Night House" is about an experience he and Joni shared. (I
> presume it was a rainy night, and Joni and Al took a taxi to Al's mother's
> home, and Al's mother was out of town, . . . >>
*Sigh!* It's all so romantic...:)
Cheers, Susan (to whom almost *everything* is romantic)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 11:10:54 -0400
From: Jerry Notaro
Subject: Re: The Al Kooper Connection (NJC)
DreamZvil@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 2/2/99 8:02:24 AM !!!First Boot!!!, les@jmdl.com writes:
>
> << > Al claims in his book that he and Joni hooked up, and
> > that "Rainy Night House" is about an experience he and Joni shared. (I
> > presume it was a rainy night, and Joni and Al took a taxi to Al's mother's
> > home, and Al's mother was out of town, . . . >>
I remember that he also teamed up with Mike Bloomfield to produce some extraordinary recordings.
Jerry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:03:10 EST
From: TerryM2442@aol.com
Subject: Re: questions on joni stats
In a message dated 2/2/99 9:31:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes:
<< Additionally, she has
engaged the services of a good plastic surgeon over the years. >>
You think so?? I thought she just goes to the "Happiness" clinic-
I didn't notice anything that looked like surgical intervention when I met
her.
Terry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:33:05 EST
From: Ginamu@aol.com
Subject: Re: questions on joni stats
In a message dated 2/2/99 9:12:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, artwear@ncweb.com
writes:
> 7. does she sell her original paintings?
I thought I read in an interview or article about Joni that she said the
Japanese are fond of her original paintings (more appreciative of her painting
talent) and that one of her paintings had been purchased by a Japanese person
for $25,000. Can anyone confirm this? I believe in the same article she said
something about Americans being suspicious of, or perhaps it was feeling
threatened by, the "thrice talented", which she certainly is. Wish I could
remember where I read this and if these two things appeared in the same
article.
Gina
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:47:45 -0800
From: simon@icu.com
Subject: Al Kooper & Joni
Dennis Leong asked ...
>__________________________________________________________________________
>Anyone familiar with this Al Cooper reference to 'Rainy Night House'
>
>from alt.music.Leonard-Cohen
>
>Not to burst anyone's bubble, but several years ago I read an excerpt from
>an autobiography by a fellow named Al Cooper. I'm not sure exactly what
>Al's claim to fame is or was, although I believe he may have been a member
>of the '60's band "Blood, Sweat and Tears." In any event he was part of
>the NYC/Greenwich Village club scene about the time Joni Mitchell was
>starting her career and living in 16th Street in the Chelsea district of
>>Manhattan. Al apparently met Joni through her then-current boyfriend, a
>>drummer named Roy (or Ray) Blumenthal (who may have played drums for
>"Blood, Sweat and Tears"; and, of course, we all know about Joni and
>those "boom, boom pachyderm" players). Al claims in his book that he and
>Joni hooked up, and that "Rainy Night House" is about an experience he and
>Joni shared. (I presume it was a rainy night, and Joni and Al took a taxi
>to Al's mother's home, and Al's mother was out of town, ... well, you know
>the rest.) I don't know if there's any truth to Al's story -- which ain't
>a bad one, by the way, as Joni Mitchell stories go -- but whatever the
>>inspiration, "Rainy Night House" is one among many great songs by Joni
>>Mitchell. >> mojo
>__________________________________________________________________________
Dennis,
Mojo's memory is a little fuzzy about what Al Kooper actually said.
here's the lowdown.
From: BACKSTAGE PASSES & BACKSTABBING BASTARDS:
Memoirs Of A Rock 'N Roll Survivor
by Al Kooper, (c) 1998
One night I was sitting in my favorite bar in the vgillage, the Dugout.
It was the best place to kill a sumer's night, and i always ran into a few
friends I would miss while i was on the road. I was living platonically at
folk-singer Judy Collins' apartment on the Upper West Side in between my
own apartments. Judy, the number two female folk singer behind Joan Baez,
was a wonderful, generous woman. Her apartment was the folk music salon of
the midi sixties. People like Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Phil Ochhs, and others
would make the pilgrimage to her digs and enjoy her hospitality and earth
mothering. This particular night in the Village I was sitting with a new
girl in town. she had a crush on Roy Blumenfeld, the drummer from The
Blues Project. Unfortunately for her, Roy had a girlfriend who was on to
her and extremely jealous. So, this gal is crying in my beer for about
three hours,
and I don't mind 'cause she's kinda easy on the eyes and nothing else is
going on anyway. So they're closing the bar and throwing us out and I offer
to walk her home. Since it was about a fifteen-minute stroll, and it was a
beautiful summer's night. Since I was covered in the ashes of my failed
marriage, this was a pleasant diversion.
When we got to her door, she invited me in to hear some of her new songs.
She was a folksinger. Canadian. Half of a duet with her recently divorced
husband, they had achieved a mild popularity and a cult following in
various American border cities. she, being real pretty, had me bounding up
the
stairs like a hound dog, figuring if the songs were lousy, maybe I could
salvage the evening some other way. In a few minutes that became the
furthest thing from my mind.
Her songs were incredible and totally original, which was a surprise in
those days, but quite refreshing. She would finish one, and I would say
more, more. And she had enough to keep going for hours, most of them
brilliant. One song especially killed me, and i thought it would be great
for Judy Collins--that a nice way to pay her for her hospitality would be
to turn her on to it. Being impulsive, I asked my host if I could use her
phone, and i called Judy up. It was 5:30 a.m. by now, and Judy was pretty
pissed off.
"I have to get up soon and drive all the way to the Newport Folk Festival,
and I wanted to get some sleep for a change. I can hear this song when I
get back from the festival, Al," she said diplomatically.
Bang! a great idea hits me. "Judy, why don't you, room permitting, take
this girl with you to the festival. She could play the song and others for
you on the way up and make your trip that much more pleasant. Then, being
that you're on the board of directors, you could see if maybe they could fit
her in the schedule somewhere to play, huh?" Silence at the other end.
"Judy?"
"Kooper, you bastard. Yea, I'll do it. Gimme her number. Bye."
Just to make sure, I gave the woman Judy's number and told her to call
Collins in a couple of hours. I split immediately 'cause I was exhausted
and never made it to Judy's place, preferring to crash on a bench in
Washington Square Park in the steamy, summer morning rather than get hell
for waking her at 5:30 a.m.
Well, as the saying goes, the rest is history. The girl (Joni Mitchell,
of course) played at the 1967 festival, thanks to the last minute urgings
of Judy Collins, and stole the whole show. Judy eventually recorded the
song I thought she would like, "Michael From Mountains," and also had a
huge hit with "Both Sides Now," another of Joni's songs. Joni never
thanked me, but when I heard the album "Ladies Of The Canyon," that was
thanks enough. Maybe I should thank Her.
- -------
simon
- -------
* Remember, if you don't stand for something, you'll go for anything.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:48:33 -0800
From: simon@icu.com
Subject: Rainy Night House & Leonard Cohen
Randy Remote writes ...
>__________________________________________________________________________
>"Leong, Dennis" wrote:
>>
>> I read an excerpt from an autobiography by a fellow named Al Cooper.
>> Al claims in his book that he and Joni hooked up, and that
>>"Rainy Night House" is about an experience he and Joni shared.
>>
>
>Al Kooper was indeed leader of Blood, Sweat and Tears only
>for their first album "Child is Father To the Man".
>
>I don't know about his "Rainy Night" story,
>
>I remember an interview I heard ages ago where a DJ was asking Joni
>about "Rainy Night House", and asked if the "Holy Man on the FM Radio"
>referred to a radio jock. Joni laughed and said, no, she was referring
>to a musician.
>
>RR
>__________________________________________________________________________
Randy,
here's a little something from the JMDL Archives
>
>
>Date: Mon. Feb. 23, 1998
>
>From: VARIOUS POSITIONS: A Life Of Leonard Cohen
> by Ira B. Nadel, (c) 1996
>
> Following his father's death, Cohen won a significant dispute with
> his mother over custody of Nathan's pistol, a military souvenir.
> Cohen had been fascinated by his father's military exploits and at
> one time Nathan had spoken of sending Cohen to a military college,
> an idea Cohen eagerly accepted. THE FAVORITE GAME describes the
> dispute over the gun, presented as an important talisman:
> a "huge .38 in a thick leather case ... Lethal, angular, precise,
> it smoldered in the dark drawer with dangerous potential.
> The metal was always cold."
>
> Cohen has always been fascinated by weapons, reflected in his novel
> BEAUTIFUL LOSERS. "I loved the magic of guns," the character F.
> declares. For several years Cohen himself kept a gun. In her lyric
> to "Rainy Night House," Joni Mitchell describes how she and Cohen
> took a taxi to his mother's house in Westmount during her absence:
> "she went to Florida and left you with your father's gun alone."
>
>
> RAINY NIGHT HOUSE
>
> It was a rainy night
> We took a taxi to your mother's home
> She went to Florida and left you
> With your father's gun, alone
> Upon her small white bed
> I fell into a dream
> You sat up all the night and watched me
> To see, who in the world I might be.
>
> I am from the Sunday school
> I sing soprano in the upstairs choir
> You are a holy man
> On the F.M. radio
> I sat up all the night and watched thee
> To see, who in the world you might be.
>
> You called me beautiful
> You called your mother--she was very tanned
> So you packed your tent and went
> To live out in the Arizona sand
> You are a refugee
> From a wealthy family
> You gave up all the golden factories
> To see, who in the world you might be.
>
>
>--------
> simon
>--------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:55:50 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re[2]: questions on joni stats
In a message dated 2/2/99 9:31:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes:
<< Additionally, she has
engaged the services of a good plastic surgeon over the years. >>
Then Terry wonders:
***You think so?? I thought she just goes to the "Happiness" clinic-
I didn't notice anything that looked like surgical intervention when I met
her.***
To tell you the truth (and I'm sure you can relate) it wasn't
something I thought about then & there, as I was so mesmerized by her
radiance. But afterwards, and after getting the photos back, I
wondered about it, especially given the fact that she's smoked for 40
years...
But by the same token, since she's not of this earth in so many other
ways, it could be that she's not susceptible to gravity, time, and
other thieves...:~)
Bob
NP: The Blackbyrds, "Walking in Rhythm"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:23:58 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: questions on joni stats
- ----------
> From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
> To: artwear@ncweb.com; joni@smoe.org
> Subject: Re: questions on joni stats
> Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 10:14 AM
>
> In a message dated 2/2/99 9:12:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
artwear@ncweb.com
> writes:
>
> << 11. does she have to pay chuck royalties? >>
>
> For what? Chuck did not co-write any of her songs.
For the "Mitchell" name...people have sued for less!
Marilyn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 07:34:58 +0100
From: Marian Russell
Subject: Marian Unplugged Report
Just wanted to let you all know about my gig on Sunday - Jan. 31st.
It was a *very* cold night in Vienna - at least minus 10 degrees
Centigrade and the wind was blowing - so I was especially grateful for
the dear souls who braved the cold to come and hear me play.
It went really well. I felt very pleased with most of it and I got nice
feedback from everyone.
My set lists were:
1st set:
Catch The Wind (Donovan)
Some Kind Of Trouble (Tanya Tucker)
The Weight (The Band)
Blackbird (Beatles)
Isle of Islay (Donovan)
Mr. Tambourine Man (Dylan)
Dear Prudence (Beatles)
Big Yellow Taxi
Because I Told You (Jonatha Brooke)
Night In The City
Suzanne (Leonard Cohen)
Winter Wind (Patty Larkin)
The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines (a capella)
2nd set:
Talk To Me
Hejira
The Only Joy In Town
Cherokee Louise
Help Me
Magdalene Laundries
The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey
Barangrill
Moon At The Window
The Crazy Cries Of Love
3rd set:
Just Like This Train
Sisotowbell Lane
Coyote
This Flight Tonight
The Gallery
Cold Blue Steel
Number One
Night Ride Home
For most of the JM songs I tuned the guitar at least a whole step lower
than the tuning Joni uses, since it's hard for me to reach some of the
higher notes otherwise.
I felt pretty tired about halfway into the second set - and sometimes I
felt like I wasn't sure I could sing the next song - like momentary
lapses in confidence - and then I felt happy when I managed to get
through the various songs where I felt like this. Even though I was so
tired, when I got home I was really wound up and couldn't go to sleep
even though it was after midnight. I slept most of the next day.
I really enjoyed doing this and I hope that my efforts will spark an
appreciation for Joni's music in at least a few members of the
audience. I'll probably play again in another couple of months.
Marian
Vienna
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 11:10:23 PST
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Re: questions on joni stats
>6. does she have a favorite alcoholic beverage?
Tequila, Singapore Slings, bottles of German wine and love (the
strongest poison and medecine of all) :-)
Don Rowe
(all of these suggestions come straight from Joni lyrics, so I hope this
answer doesn't sound too stupid ... or lame)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:40:13 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: questions on joni stats
>
> >6. does she have a favorite alcoholic beverage?
>
> Tequila, Singapore Slings, bottles of German wine and love (the
> strongest poison and medecine of all) :-)
>
> Don Rowe
> (all of these suggestions come straight from Joni lyrics, so I hope this
> answer doesn't sound too stupid ... or lame)
And gin and zombies and sweet champagne and holy wine ...I suspect our Joni
is a lush.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:49:11 EST
From: TerryM2442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Marian Unplugged Report
Woo Woo!! Way to go, Marian! Wish I could have been there-
Terry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:30:42 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re: Marian Unplugged Report
Marian reports:
<>
Marian, what a show this must have been! Hope you're gearing up for a summer US
tour...I'll come, and I'll bring a date!
Of course keep in mind if you're playing for your fellow jmdler's, some of those
NJC songs will have to go!! ;~D
Bob (The best I can do is walk around the halls at work whistling her songs in
hope that someone will stop me and ask about it,,,)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 99 13:42:29 -0700
From: Wally Breese
Subject: John Kelly
Hi everyone,
I received a letter this evening from John Kelly, with news that he
is presenting
his "Paved Paradise" show in abridged form as opening act on the Natalie
Merchant tour. Here's his note:
Hi Wally,
Good news--I'm opening for Natalie Merchant on part of her west coast
tour.
I've known Natalie for a couple of years, we've talked about doing this,
and now
its finally happened. It will be a condensed version of Paved Paradise, a
30
minute set--mostly old Joni songs, just guitar and keyboard.
Here are the venues:
February 6
The Joint at the Hard Rock Hotel
Las Vegas
2/8
Copley Symphony Hall
San Diego
2/9
Arlington Theatre
Santa Barbara
2/10
Universal Amphitheatre
Universal City, Ca. (LA)
- -----------------------------------
Later,
Wally Breese
The Joni Mitchell Homepage
http://www.JoniMitchell.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 13:42:35 -0700
From: Bounced Message
Subject: weighing in on NJC - Contains Joni content!
From: CarltonCT@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:03:48 EST
The actual Joni content of this list is often uninteresting to me. At certain
times, like Joni's recent tours in the States, or the release of TTT, or the
Pay Per View, listers have had some interesting things to write about: actual
encounters, what happened at the concerts, the tapings, etc. I love hearing
anything about Joni I didn't know, or reading some fresh perspective -- but
plain and simple comments on what someone likes or doesn't like about her or
her music is dull, or where they place her albums in a hierarchy, etc. Dull
to me anyway, so I just scroll through it on the Digest.
I think Les does an excellent job of editing the posts into the Digests, and I
recommend subscribing to them for anyone who thinks this List has too much of
anything. For me, much of the NJC material here has been far more
interesting in the dry times, especially since it's still coming from a group
of people with whom I share an obsession: a beautiful, female Canadian
singer/songwriter of extraordinary gifts, a woman of tremendous complexities
with a network of interests and concerns, a woman who is reflected in the
diverse personalities of her fans.
Joni's work in the last two decades has been very political, very questioning
on certain religious issues, and yes, she has written specifically about gay
people in sympathetic terms. The Magdalene Laundries is an indictment against
an archaic, oppressive institution run by the Catholic Church, and implicitly,
a condemnation of Irish culture's link to that Church. If Joni can be
controversial and assert her strong opinions, then why shouldn't the people on
this list if they are doing it in a way that doesn't personally attack
someone? We aren't talking about Celine Dion here, we're talking about
someone who has weighed in on some important cultural, religious and political
matters in her music -- and she doesn't care if she's being polite in critical
matters. If it's important to Joan, it's important to us and all the human
family. Joni once divided herself from political material early in her
career, at a time when many of her contemporaries were very political. But
she reversed that in the 80s with DED, CMIAR, then TI and TTT which are rich
with social commentary. It was part of her maturity as a person to go
outside of herself and take on a greater world perspective. In the last two
decades, her songs of social commentary are toothsome and stimulating in the
face of so much empty pop music.
I find some of the people writing NJC material here to be bright, well
informed, and interesting writers. I like reading what they have to say even
if I disagree with them. It's not like the NJC material here is about cars,
or food, or what's on television. It tends to be about important things.
In the six months or so that I've been here, I see that the list always swings
back to its intended subject matter. It's something I've seen on other lists
I've subscribed to, where people who are in the safety of cyberspace write
things to each other in a public forum that they would never say to someone
else's face. Controversies always break out about what the true nature of the
list is, until the list itself is consumed by that discussion. I think
that's what's happened here.
All of which leads me to a question: what is it that people who love Joni
have in common? Weigh in!
My own answer: if you love Joni, you feel things deeply. You have a rich
emotional and subjective life and are overwhelmed sometimes by your feelings
and perceptions, a condition you wouldn't trade. Like Van Gogh, or other
artists/sensitives, the world is often an intensely vibrant place -- you
can't always filter your experience of it into some manageable stream, because
you have never stopped yourself from feeling. You love beauty and pursue it
constantly. You pick the roller coaster over the the merry-go-round.
One thing I also learned after meeting JMDL people in the flesh recently at
Kakki's swell apartment in the sky: they are (so far in my experience) a warm,
friendly and considerate bunch. They were polite enough to listen to my
fledgling efforts as a songwriter, and all of them are very good singers!
Clark
NP: Pet Shop Boys, Bilingual
This message boun_ced on it's way to Joniland - usually a result of the
address from which it came not matching *exactly* any subscriber's address.
If this message is from you, contact me so we can resolve the problem. -Les.
- --------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:12:28 -0800
From: simon@icu.com
Subject: I'se A Muggin'
on Jan. 18, 1999 Mark asked ...
>
>I was listening to a program on our local NPR station Saturday night
>called 'The Swing Years and Beyond' and they played the entire song
>I's A Muggin'. I meant to write down the name of the artist performing
>it but got distracted and can't remember the name. Was anyone else aware
>that that little snippet from 'Mingus' that Joni sings with the man was
>part of an actual song?
>
Yes,
the song "I'se A Muggin'" was written by Jazz Violinist Stuff Smith.
you can find his original 1936 recording on the following CD.
1. STUFF SMITH 'The Mad Genius Of The Violin, Vol. 1'
EPM/JAZZ ARCHIVES 5085 158912 2
other recordings of "I'se A Muggin'" can be found on the following CD's.
2. DJANGO REINHARDT 'Avec Le Quintet Du Hot Club De France'
BMG M97169
3. DJANGO REINHARDT 'Django With His American Friends'
DRG 2147 8493 2
4. JACK TEAGARDEN 'The Indispensable Jack Teagarden'
BMG/RCA 7863 66606 2
all the above are available from CD Now (among others).
here's more than you (probably) wanted to know about Stuff Smith.
STUFF SMITH
b. Aug. 14, 1909 Portsmouth, OH;
d. Nov. 25, 1967 Chicago IL.
nee: Hezekiah Leroy Gordon Smith
Overview:
Stuff Smith was one of those rare musicians endowed with the special
ability to create highly entertaining music with a strong personal flavor
that deeply touched his audiences. His jocular style of playing and
singing showed the strong influence of Louis Armstrong. (What musician
hasn't been influenced by Armstrong?) His use of the violin echoed the
Jazz bands of
much earlier days, and in his capable hands, it was the equal of any other
band instrumnet. He was capable of great melodic invention that was coupled
with a wonderful phrasing and a strong sense of rhythm. He was a master
musician who is not as appreciated today as he should be. Listening to his
many fine recordings, one is sure to feel the excitement of this great and
entertaining jazz master.
Stuff' father was a violinist, his mother was a pianist, and by just age 6,
he was already studying the violin. He went on from there to more serious
musical studies. In 1924, at age fifteen, while attending Johnson C. Smith
University (on a music scholarship) he heard Louis Armstrong, and abandoned
his goal of becoming a classical musician, turning to Jazz and Pop music
instead. He left school to join a touring musical show (and there picked
up
his nickname "Stuff").
Stuff left the touring show, and from 1926-'28, worked with the
Trent Alphonso Orchestra. Following Alphonso, Stuff was briefly with
Jelly Roll Morton before again returning to Alphonso. He stayed with
Alphonso until 1930 and then settled in Buffalo, NY leading his own band
for a few years. In 1936, Stuff relocated to New York City, there to
receive his widest acclaim.
Finding work on New York's famed 52nd Street ('Swing Street'), Stuff formed
a sextet called 'Stuff Smith & His Onyx Club Boys'. Among the "boys" were
Jonah Jones on trumpet and Cozy Cole on drums. He recorded for Vocalion
Records and also started occasionally singing and playing with an amplified
violin - an innovation for that time. Two of his better known recordings
of the day were "I'se A Muggin'" (composed by Stuff) and "You'se a Viper".
Both tunes featured trumpeter Jonah Jones. All through the 1940s, Stuff
continued to record and perform in New York. It is little remembered
today,
but in 1943, Fats Waller died on a train returning him to New York, and
Stuff became the new leader of Waller's band.
By the 1950s, Swing Street and the Big Bands had passed into memory.
Stuff's sextet was also gone. He worked as a sideman with other jazzmen
including Dizzy Gillespie. In 1953, Stuff had a solo on Sun Ra's first
recording "Sound Sun Pleasure!". In 1957, Verve Record's owner Norman
Granz featured Stuff on different albums with such musicians as the Oscar
Peterson Trio, Carl Perkins, and a collaboration with Dizzy Gillespie.
Also in 1957, Stuff was recorded in collaboration with famed violinist
Stephane Grappelli
(of the original 'Hot Club of France') on a disk "Violins No End."
During the 1960s, Stuff toured and recorded extensively throughout the U.S.
and Europe. On records, he was heard with such violinists as John-Luc Ponty
and Svend Asmussen. In 1965, he permanently relocated to Copenhagen,
Denmark. where he was a popular artist. He was just 58 years old when he
died.
for now ~ take care,
- -------
simon
- -------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:14:16 -0800
From: simon@icu.com
Subject: Hits
on Mon. Jan. 11, 1999 Eric Taylor wrote ...
>
>The only two reasons I bought Hits was to hear Urge For Going
>and to support Joni. And I think it's the best song on the CD.
>
>All the songs on Hits are wonderful but I find it insulting to Joni
>and listeners to confine her unparalleled accomplishments to the early
>>seventies. None of her truly remarkable works are included on Hits,
>although it is good to see Chinese Cafe and Come In From The Cold
>somehow made it onto the CD.
>
>However I can't see 'Hits' killing her catalog.
>Suddenly I'm hearing her music everywhere. And this is good!
>
>E.T.
>
FWIW:
all selections were made by Joni herself. the track selection went
thru several revisions. she's also pointed out that were she programming
these collections today, they would probably be different. at one point
"Dreamland" was to be included on 'HITS'. only when it was dropped did she
add "Chelsea Morning" and "Come In From The Cold" in its place.
'MISSES' originally included "The Boho Dance" instead of
"The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey".
as for 'Hits' killing her catalog, this was Joni's stated reason
for opposing an Anthology Collection (ie: Greatest Hits), as well
as the fact that there weren't that many hits.
BTW: did you notice the following in the 'MISSES' production credits?
Thanks, "To Melanie Harby, Timothy White and WALLY BREESE
for the research even though I changed direction."
for now ~ take care,
- -------
simon
- -------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:16:14 -0800
From: simon@icu.com
Subject: We're Not Equal? ~ Oh Yes You Are! (NJC)
on 12-15-98 Paul Tyrer wrote ...
>__________________________________________________________________________
>Hi Marilyn
>
>I know what you're saying about 'what happens in other people's bedrooms
>is none of our business'. But if that were true, Matt Sheppard wouldn't
>be dead right now. Heterosexuals and Lesbians/Gay men aren't the same,
>'cos the latter (in which I include myself) suffer discrimination and
>prejudice every day even if for the more fortunate of us, this is
>experienced in very minor and seemingly insignificant ways.
>We're not equal, and no amount of saying so is gonna make us equal. Yet!
>__________________________________________________________________________
Paul,
not equal? Oh yes you are!
don't EVER let anyone tell you any different.
there's NO doubt about your equality. the question is when are
we all going to be accorded *Equal Treatment* under the law and
in the eyes and attitudes of the misguided few.
clearly the goal is ...
"Coexistence with mutual respect for the dignity of each individual."
i think Thomas Jefferson said it best, even if He wasn't able to live up
to his own ideals.
"We Hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."
... the pursuit of Happiness.
a revolutionary concept. think about it.
- -------
simon
- -------
they sin by their silence ... when they should have spoken out.
A.Lincoln
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 14:20:38 -0800
From: Randy Remote
Subject: Re: questions on joni stats
M & C Urbanski wrote:
>
> 11. does she have to pay chuck royalties?
>
Royalties are paid for intellectual property i.e. authorship.
Since Joni's legal name was Mitchell, I don't know of any law that would
validate a claim from Chuck that he was due anything.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 14:36:26 -0800
From: Randy Remote
Subject: Re:Stuff Smith(NJC)
Simon-
More thanks due. I've long appreciated Stuff Smith. His 1936 era Onyx Club
recordings are absolutely classic! So I was glad to get this background info.
I also have an album he did with guitarist Herb Ellis in 1963 that is quite
nice. Jazz lovers (esp violin jazz) are urged to check him out. Cool Stuff fer
sure.
On CD
Stuff Smith "Onyx Club Spree" TPZ 1061 Pavilion Records LTD (English Co.)
Contains 30's gems including the reefer song "You'se a Viper" and a hot "After
You've Gone" (but not "I's a Muggin'")
Herb Ellis and Stuff Smith "Together!" Koch Jazz KOC 3-7805-2 (1963)
more modern but still mighty fine formerly Epic LA 16039
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:33:01 +0000
From: "Deb Messling"
Subject: Re: questions on joni stats
> 3. who watches her cats when she's on the road?
Hopefully not the same housekeeper who painted her piano brown.
> 4. does she have any gray hair yet/ does she dye her hair?
I cannot believe she has no gray hair. She's in her mid
fifties, after all. And she's had different shades of blonde over
the years - wasn't she really, really platinum in the Refuge of the
Roads video?
That photo in the NY Times Magazine - does it look like she's had
plastic surgery?
> 6. does she have a favorite alcoholic beverage?
Way back in 1974, she said her favorite wine was Chateaux Margaux. My
mom bought me a bottle for Christmas.
> 9. Is her father still alive?
Yes, I believe he is. She doesn't talk about him much, does she?
Myrtle looms large.
> 11. does she have to pay chuck royalties?
I don't know about royalties, but didn't they have some business
arrangements early on, like a joint publishing company? Was he the
guy "with her name on all his papers?"
Deb Messling
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:44:08 -0500
From: The Humphreys
Subject: re: all things NJC
evian, I read your recent post with a loud "Yes, Me Too!" at the end.
It was so well articulated, and everything I have wanted to say, but
haven't had the time/energy to put together. I enjoy portions of this
digest, and don't enjoy others. But by no means do I wish any of it
away. How could we possibly "discuss" and "learn" without debate of any
kind? How could we come together and maintain interest in one another
without differences of opinion, some stronger that others...It gets the
old blood boilin' ;-) Suzanne
NP: Metric Lips (New Grass Revival) thanks to Les (she says with a
huge smile on her face, praising the powers of snail mail and new
recording technology...)
------------------------------
End of JMDL Digest V4 #54
*************************
There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more
details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading
-------
JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank
message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info.
-------
The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available
now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details.
-------
Don't forget about these ongoing projects:
FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related
questions? -send them to
Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to
Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact?
-send it to
-------
Post messages to the list at
Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to
-------
Siquomb, isn't she?